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HowardM
01-01-2004, 01:56 PM
Happy New Year everyone.

I want to sincerely apologize for my harsh words and behavior regarding last weeks LW delay.
I snapped after feeling betrayed by Newtek.
The grinch got the best of me. :blush:

I wish to continue to be a part of this wonderful community and promise you will only see constructive, well thought out posts from now on. All critiques will be discussed professionally with the right people at Newtek.

Please allow me to rectify myself by showing only positive behavior in 2004!

Thanks and have a great 2004!
:)

ghopper
01-01-2004, 02:06 PM
debee•debee ;)

Zach
01-01-2004, 02:46 PM
Here! Here!

:)

hrgiger
01-01-2004, 03:35 PM
That's ok Howard. It is a little frustrating because I know I've been waiting for Lightwave 8 for awhile.

Why don't you come on over to the Feature Request forum and add some requests in the new modeler thread I started the other day?

Tesselator
01-01-2004, 04:01 PM
Hey, Nice!


Welcome back!

I've always liked the informative contributions you've
made here and to the other sites I read you on.
Especially when you're in a hypervoxel mood.

Looking forward to more like that :D


HAPPY NEW YEARS ( http://www.sendpix.com/albums/04010111/114923000000062ccaab6a117c6bb62f8fa53f79eccb45/)

js33
01-01-2004, 04:18 PM
Hi Howard,

I understand your frustration although you did go a little too far. I always liked your HV and MD tests. Hopefully it will be improved although HVs are very usable now but MD is getting a makover. HVs need to bring back the render at 1/2 res option.

Here's to a prosperous New Year for everyone and all of Newtek. :D

Oh and hurry up and release it already. :D

Cheers,
JS

siproductions
01-01-2004, 04:34 PM
Hey Howard,

No harm done. I feel that what you said has some validity to it. It's just like our mom's always say. "It's not what you say it's how you say it.":) I too would wish for Newtek to be the best out there, and it is in some ways. I just look forward to the improvements, and it seems that improvements are being made. It just takes time.

Sincerely,
Simon

cresshead
01-01-2004, 05:20 PM
welcome back;)

Gabe
01-02-2004, 09:45 AM
hehe.... gool ol' hot-head-howie.... we still love you man.

HowardM
01-02-2004, 09:57 AM
Thanks for the welcome back!

Hervé
01-03-2004, 12:27 AM
Amen, and next time dont drink all that coffeeee....

Lewis
01-03-2004, 05:30 PM
Good to have you back HowardM.

Just out of couriosity can you say what upset you so badly that you've becomed like "devil" on forums :) ?

I'm interested if is some kind of drink i would like to avoid that ;) ;) ;).

j/k

HowardM
01-05-2004, 08:09 AM
I think what really upsets me is whats upsetting everyone else.
We arent seeing very much 'new' development in the demos, or at least thats what it seems like.

We will have to wait to actually see and lets hope like Duece said there is more under the hood!

Meaty
01-05-2004, 08:42 AM
While I did not see your other remarks, I must say, that is a grade 'A' apology.

Tesselator
01-05-2004, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by HowardM
I think what really upsets me is whats upsetting everyone else.
We arent seeing very much 'new' development in the demos, or at least thats what it seems like.

We will have to wait to actually see and lets hope like Duece said there is more under the hood!

New? Since? Like, this week? This month? Since Sigraph?

Hehehe. We are all so spoiled, us lightwavers. :D

siproductions
01-05-2004, 11:48 AM
Well I don't know if it is what Howard meant, but I feel that some of his frustration is in the fact that while LW is a great package in a lot of ways, it is still lacking in others. I would like LW to be the best out there period, and it can be upsetting to see our favorite package not quite keeping up with others like Maya and SXI. I know this will get me into trouble, but hey I'm just trying to be honest.

Again I am not bashing LW by any means. I love the package. I think that's why we care about it so much. And I am very excited about the new features in LW8. My wish is that LW will one day be the very best out there.

Please don't kill me guys :D

Alliante
01-05-2004, 11:52 AM
Apology accepted, Captain Needa (thud)

;)


Welcome back! I know how stressful this season can be for some, all should be forgiven!

HowardM
01-05-2004, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by Tesselator
New? Since? Like, this week? This month? Since Sigraph?

Hehehe. We are all so spoiled, us lightwavers. :D

Yes Tess, newer since 6 months ago at Siggraph?
Please stop trying to deny the fact that we havent seen "much to be wow'ed" by in these 'new' demos. (yes Im psyched to have a better MD, but Im not wow'ed by something being 'fixed'...I would definitely be happy to see Ngons!) At least thats the opinion of some of us here.
Honestly, if these new demos are the best 8 has to offer then Im sure alot of us will be upset!

I certainly hope that we see more demos that will knock our socks off, and when we finally see 8 that there will be this big surprise like NGons or something more than what weve seen.

lonestar1
01-05-2004, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by HowardM
Please stop trying to deny the fact that we havent seen "much to be wow'ed" by in these 'new' demos.... At least thats the opinion of some of us here.

"Some of us" meaning very few of us. Howard, please stop trying to deny the fact that many people *have* been wowed by the demos.

"Some of us" should stop trying to tell the rest of us what "we" think. The posters who say they're impressed by Lightwave 8 are not "denying" facts, any more than you are. They're giving their honest opinions, which they're entitled to as much as you are.


Honestly, if these new demos are the best 8 has to offer then Im sure alot of us will be upset!

Then "a lot of us" should not buy LW 8. I see no evidence that you speak for a lot of us, however.

For someone who said he was only going to post positive comments in 2004, you're already off to a bad start.

Chris S. (Fez)
01-05-2004, 02:48 PM
I agree with Howard. I have been everything but "wowed" by the Lightwave 8 vids. I like what I see but I was also expecting more. Having followed the feature requests forum for a few years, I KNOW some of you guys were at least hoping for more.

Sorry. Newtek posting those free-modeler-plugins videos spooked me. Almost as sketchy as my poker metaphors. I hope Newtek's got sleeves stuffed with ace cards, but I wouldn't bet on it. If they had a royal flush to lay down on the table I think we would have seen it already. It does not make sense to me to bluff this late in the game. What is the advantage of Newtek hiding their hand when they have already collected the pot (we all pre-paid right?)? I think Newtek has showed us their hand. It is up to us to decide individually if it's a winner or not.

Gabe
01-05-2004, 07:34 PM
Well, I think that every major app has major upgrades and so-so upgrades. For instance, the last Photoshop upgrade was a bit ho-hum. Yeah, it has some nice brush tools and the healing brush but honestly it's pretty much the same program. Going from Lightwave 5.6 to 6.0 was a major step. The upgrades since have been less impressive. I think this is normal. The problem is, I guess, that many people think it's due for another 'major upgrade'. With the overhaul of Newteks development team this probably just wasn't possible at this point. My money is on LW 9 being the next major revision of the product. That said, I think LW 8 looks like a pretty good 'in between' upgrade. I personally won't spend my money on it until it is out and I know more about it but I'm thinking it'll be worth it.

Hervé
01-05-2004, 11:18 PM
Chris, do you really think we all prepaid.... nope, and because of the 'too much secret LW8", a lot of users did not, and they are waiting.....

hrgiger
01-06-2004, 12:30 AM
Well, I just got my DFX package in the mail today and I sure am anxious for the LW8 download.

For me, the new soft, rigid, and bone dynamics and the new character tools are worth the upgrade price by itself. I look forward to the more frequent updates as well.

Tesselator
01-06-2004, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by HowardM
Yes Tess, newer since 6 months ago at Siggraph?
Please stop trying to deny the fact that we havent seen "much to be wow'ed" by in these 'new' demos.

Damn! Spank Meee!!! Gets kicked, goes for the apology, and
then inches right back up to the hot plate. I'm not sure that's big
hairy kohones or lack of common sense. I'll say this and then just
leave it alone.

Anyone comming from 7.5c directly into what we've been shown
as 8, never having seen any previews, who isn't "wowed" needs
to be made to drink hot coffe from the wrong side of the cup. For
like, eternity... like, in all parallel dimentions... Naked... In like,
a large crowd of onlookers... On like, a scortching hot day... With
like, no sun-screen... and like, pooped on by flying elephants...
like, hourly...

papou
01-06-2004, 02:40 AM
yeah, im doing all of that coz im not wowed.
i wan't to continue with lw, i push my boss in this direction...but i must say that i was wowed when i saw Fxbreak, EdgeBevel, Di's, plugins on Flay some months ago, etc, etc...
actually i'm just really happy they have corrected a lot of bug and unfinished things...That is most important than few new tools for me. Good luck for the next NT.
I'm disapointed by the way the community is going to be mad,
bashing each other, etc...
and by the fact some great lw users are moving to other package...Sure it's not a real problem but...we will see.
yoroshiku!

HowardM
01-06-2004, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by Tesselator
Damn! Spank Meee!!! Gets kicked, goes for the apology, and
then inches right back up to the hot plate. I'm not sure that's big
hairy kohones or lack of common sense. I'll say this and then just
leave it alone.

Anyone comming from 7.5c directly into what we've been shown
as 8, never having seen any previews, who isn't "wowed" needs
to be made to drink hot coffe from the wrong side of the cup. For
like, eternity... like, in all parallel dimentions... Naked... In like,
a large crowd of onlookers... On like, a scortching hot day... With
like, no sun-screen... and like, pooped on by flying elephants...
like, hourly...

All I stated was my opinion, and I did it without screaming or accusing anyone of anything.
I havent stepped back up to the plate...but you of course keep trying to get me to. Dont worry, I wont react and let you have your way...:)

Tesselator
01-06-2004, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by HowardM
All I stated was my opinion, and I did it without screaming or accusing anyone of anything.
I havent stepped back up to the plate...but you of course keep trying to get me to. Dont worry, I wont react and let you have your way...:)
:confused:
I'm glad you won't react. it means we may be able to discuss it.

So let me ask you: If a woman comes up to and says really
negative inapropriate things to you do you think she has a
good defence in claiming: "All I stated was my opinion." ?

And actually if you want to break down your english usage
you did more that state an opinion. You told me to:

"stop trying to deny the fact that we havent [been wowed]"

Fact? LOL Please reread the posts and count them off. Wowed
and Unwowed. I did in 2 threads just for you and I got:

WOWED: 96.35%
Unwowed: 03.65%

It doesn't sound like your claims bare out at all much less
are facts of any kind. What say you in this discussion of
your apology which was made by the way for something
that all started when you made unsubstanciated claims
(like here) and I called you on them (like here). A pattern?

lonestar1
01-06-2004, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Gabe
Well, I think that every major app has major upgrades and so-so upgrades. For instance, the last Photoshop upgrade was a bit ho-hum. Yeah, it has some nice brush tools and the healing brush but honestly it's pretty much the same program.

Except that the new Photoshop supports 48-bit color -- that's a big deal for photographers who still use film and want to scan images in and edit them at high color resolutions. Then there's also support for non-square pixels, which is very important to anyone who works with video.

No upgrade can satisfy everyone, because no company has infinite resources. They must choose which features to implement. That means some users will find the upgrade very exciting and others won't. In the case of LW8, I think users who do a lot of character modelling or simulation that will benefit from hard/soft body dynamics find this upgrade very exciting. Those who won't make use of this particular features don't find it exciting.

That doesn't mean that one group is wrong and the other right. It simply means that different people have different needs. I think the group of people who have use for these features is large enough to make this a very successful upgrade for Newtek. The people who are saying "you can do all this with plug-ins" should go out and price plug-ins. Dynamic Realities charges $400 for its hard-body dynamics plug-in -- nearly as much as the LW8 entire upgrade.

HowardM
01-06-2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Tesselator
:confused:
I'm glad you won't react. it means we may be able to discuss it.

So let me ask you: If a woman comes up to and says really
negative inapropriate things to you do you think she has a
good defence in claiming: "All I stated was my opinion." ?

And actually if you want to break down your english usage
you did more that state an opinion. You told me to:

"stop trying to deny the fact that we havent [been wowed]"

Fact? LOL Please reread the posts and count them off. Wowed
and Unwowed. I did in 2 threads just for you and I got:

WOWED: 96.35%
Unwowed: 03.65%

It doesn't sound like your claims bare out at all much less
are facts of any kind. What say you in this discussion of
your apology which was made by the way for something
that all started when you made unsubstanciated claims
(like here) and I called you on them (like here). A pattern?




Youre nuts arent you? You spend ALOT of energy proving your manhood on these forums.
Its funny how already youre turning this into an about-to-be closed thread.

I never said any number or percent, all I said is there are some of us here that arent 'wowed' and I hope there is something better or a big surprise when it is released. Ive read numerous posts here and there, talked to a few people, and can only guess that there are more who agree.

Why do you have to turn everyones posts into debates?
Why do you feel the need to overtake every forum/newsgroup like youre a moderator?

Please dont answer here, start a new thread if you really must answer.

Chris S. (Fez)
01-06-2004, 02:31 PM
Tesselator, though this forum demands some semblance of diplomacy, I don't expect Howard to type on tip-toes. He is not resorting to the nasty sensationalism of his CGtalk tirade...so I say quit with the critiques :). He is merely speaking his mind, a mindset shared by more than a few disgruntled professionals anxious to see some of Lightwave's shortcomings addressed. This angst is apparent to me in the utter turmoil that has become CGtalk. I'd rather take one of your flying elephant turds in the face than moderate a Lightwave forum and be subjected to such doo-slinging day after day after day.

Work with ANY software long enough and you will develop an unhappy hyper-awareness of the workflow issues and workarounds exclusive to that software. Look passed the sound and fury of some of those doom-n-gloom posts (Howard's included) and you might find a few frustrations are justified.

We all like Lightwave or we wouldn't be here. Some pennypinchers want Lightwave to pummel the competition into a fine mist that drifts away on the breeze of smug "you paid how much for that piece" laughter. For others, namely the recent little rash of Lightwavers who defected to XSI, money is no object...merely fast workflow and features. Accordingly, some of us who tried competing packages during Lightwave's development lull discovered Lightwave to be lacking in some areas (and re-discovered how strong it is in others). We all expect a lot from the Lightwave developers. Some of us simply expect too much.

Chris S. (Fez)
01-06-2004, 02:57 PM
Herve, I am guessing you did not pre-pay :)? I wish I had as much will power as you. I caved a couple days before the quarter four deadline was extended. I really like Fusion. I worked in Shake last year for a job so I am pleased to have a similar compositer at home that shares the same workflow.