PDA

View Full Version : Daz Character Hair



grafxstudio
11-23-2018, 08:47 AM
Is there a way to add to Daz Studio character's hair once brought is to Lightwave, to soften and volume to their hair? I zero out the specular to their hair then 100 percen transparency to get their initial hair. Is their a set of nodes or textures I can add to make it look like hair and not a helmet?

jwiede
11-23-2018, 02:09 PM
How is the hair actually modeled? Is it as a collection of strips of flat polygons, or as a single helmet-like form, or...?

grafxstudio
11-23-2018, 04:30 PM
Using Genesis 8 character this is typical for the hair object. I'm looking it into something that has a resemblance to real hair. Body, hi-lites, and volume. Any suggestions143405

jwiede
11-23-2018, 05:57 PM
The problem you'll encounter is that the textures they're using already have shading incorporated into them, so just changing the material properties alone isn't likely to give you the flexibility you need to manage the kind of shading control you want. You could try modifying the textures they provided (using LW's image processing to adjust the contrast in their textures), or generating new ones with shading more akin to your needs.

MarkAH
11-24-2018, 02:22 AM
You're going to have to re-build the 'materials', or surfaces for LW.
It's not going to look right in preview of course, only in render.
I see in the screen shot there is no specular, and 80% diffuse.
There should be specular, maybe about 30 - 40%.
Sometimes the artist includes a specular map and sometimes not.
Then, there should not be transparency used.
Even with a texture map, transparency works differently in LW and should only be used with solid geometries.
Put your transparency texture map in the clip map and invert the image.
Then play with glossiness some. Use maybe 15 - 45% depending on the kind of shampoo your character uses.
Oh, and click 'Double Sided'. That will help a lot with 'Volume'. The polys should show from both sides, especially on windy days. :)

MarkAH
11-24-2018, 04:49 AM
143409
Here is a character/hair from DS, converted to LW Objects and rendered in a LW Scene.
'Materials' completely re-built to LW surfaces as suggested above.
Very wispy fine hair, really hard to do, but this is about as good as it gets.
Results are so dependent on the quality of the artwork.
The artist that created this hair is Fabiana Kofman (FK-Designs).

MarkAH
11-24-2018, 10:24 AM
This talk about shaders got me thinking I don't remember ever seeing a shader on hair surfaces in DS.
Since even the basic surface parameters don't translate then the shaders probably wouldn't come over either.
Especially since DS and LW don't even have the same shaders.
Maybe I just never looked, but it gave me an idea.
(Still using LW2015)...
In the regular surface editor there is a shader tab to apply shaders on any surface.
There's one called BRDF which has an anisotropicII mode that sets the specular disturbance by the UV map.
Since the artwork for hair (texture map) is almost always aligned vertically, then using that mode might make a nice enhancement to the look of hair.
I tried it with a few settings and 40% specular, 20% glossiness, along with 12 deg anisotropy and 0 deg direction (so it's lined right up with V) looks pretty nice.
For heavier hair you might use up to 18 deg anisotropy.
For a hair texture that doesn't have real fine artwork it will probably help a lot.

grafxstudio
11-24-2018, 06:08 PM
Here is a photo that I worked on today . I liked how the hair came out. What do you think?

143418

MarkAH
11-25-2018, 07:08 AM
That's a good hair model. Came out nice and it's one with some excellent volume.
I have one that's got some problems but I like it anyway.
Looks kind of glompy though, like there's too much hair-spray on it or something.
This is the best I can get with it. Used that AnisotropicII shader idea on it too.

143422

grafxstudio
11-27-2018, 09:59 AM
Here is another one. Do you like how this came out or should the texture be changed? I'm welcome to any critiques

143432

jwiede
11-27-2018, 01:54 PM
Here is another one. Do you like how this came out or should the texture be changed? I'm welcome to any critiques

143432

Her hair looks nice. There's some kind of surfacing artifact happening with her right wrist, though, and the skin specular in her right forearm-to-wrist looks a bit odd as well.

MarkAH
11-27-2018, 07:34 PM
How do you bring these objects into LW.
I mean, by OBJ or what is it FBX?
Can you transfer the rigging together with the geometry?
I get the DS stuff into LW via OBJ so the rigging doesn't come with it.
But I wrote a python script that runs in Poser, which extracts the rig info.
So I put the model in Poser and run the script, which creates obj lines that I load into Modeler, merge points and convert to skelegons.
Add that in with the character .lwo , load it into Layout and convert to Bones.
Seems like a long way around but I can't find any MeshEdit tool that makes bones. In Python that is.
But that gets my characters rigged, and then there's weight maps to do.
Quite the task.

grafxstudio
11-27-2018, 09:17 PM
Well the problems with the wrist is that it use to have bracelets on the wrist. They was either cutting into the hand or wrist so I tried to cover them up in Photoshop. I mostly bring in the obj in to Lightwave. Tried to go fbx but that meant having to pose the character manually. I couldn't use the poses from Daz Studio . Unless you have figured a way to bring a pose in to Lightwave from Daz?

MarkAH
11-28-2018, 06:08 AM
It seems like you are saying that you're bringing in the posed character from DS, and it certainly looks that way in your render.
Really like that coat in the last picture btw. That must have been posed in DS, no?
So there you have it. Must be bringing in the character, clothing, hair etc from DS all together.
Was saying above that it is necessary to get the rigging done so characters, etc can be posed in LW.
Absolutely must be weight mapped though and getting a compound figure and clothes just right is very hard to do.
Many hours of tweaking the weight maps so there's no poke through and the various surfaces bend just right.

Kryslin
11-28-2018, 10:28 AM
Adding bones is in layout, not in modeler. I suspect that draw a 2pt polygon, merge points, and convert to skelegons is probably the way to get your bones accurately placed with DAZ figures. I suspect that a skelegon is simply a 2pt polygon with a polygon tag set. Myself, I import as OBJ, use RHiggit2 to rig in layout, and use Rhiggit's save rig / load skelegons to find out where I need weights to blend. Tends to work rather well, if, as you said, in a round-about fashion.

prometheus
11-28-2018, 12:42 PM
Well the problems with the wrist is that it use to have bracelets on the wrist. They was either cutting into the hand or wrist so I tried to cover them up in Photoshop. I mostly bring in the obj in to Lightwave. Tried to go fbx but that meant having to pose the character manually. I couldn't use the poses from Daz Studio . Unless you have figured a way to bring a pose in to Lightwave from Daz?

Havenīt followed all post here now..but what figures are you using that you canīt export with fbx? is it special characters from a daz purchase?
Otherwise the genesis figures should work with fbx and getting poses, animtation in to lightwave when you export to fbx.

grafxstudio
11-28-2018, 04:10 PM
Not saying I couldn't export as fbx. I was saying that I haven't posed a figure in Lightwave so I found it easier to pose in Daz Studio since they have preconfigured poses.

MarkAH
11-28-2018, 06:40 PM
Adding bones is in layout, not in modeler..

Yes, the MeshEdit tools are Modeler tools, I should have said 'SKELEGONS'.
Can't figure out how to use Python to draw skelegons or I could just use the data from my Poser script in a LW Python script that does the skelegons. And it would be nice if they could be named because my Poser script also extracts the Actor Names, which would also ultimately be the bone name.
Ah well, it's working out OK. Weight maps are the tough part but with practice it's getting easier

prometheus
11-29-2018, 01:13 AM
Not saying I couldn't export as fbx. I was saying that I haven't posed a figure in Lightwave so I found it easier to pose in Daz Studio since they have preconfigured poses.

I donīt follow the problem here, must have missed something ...when you pose in daz(genesis figures), fbx poses will be transfered, everything from static poses, to manually animated, or using aniblocks...you need to transfer the keyframe poses in the timeline in daz though...if you use animated poses that is.

As for importing static fbx posed rigs, or animated, you can apply ik booster on the fbx rig and pose as you like in lightwave.

grafxstudio
11-29-2018, 05:31 AM
I must not have been selecting the right selections on the fbx out of Daz because when I select fbx it goes back to the initial pose and I must pose it myself to what I want.

MarkAH
11-29-2018, 06:27 AM
when you pose in daz(genesis figures), fbx poses will be transfered, everything from static poses, to manually animated, or using aniblocks...you need to transfer the keyframe poses in the timeline in daz though...if you use animated poses that is.

That really does sound nice, but I can't use DS.
Everything works backward and it just drives me nuts.
Not buying any Genesis characters either.
But I enjoy the modeling process the most and I just use the original obj's from the library.
Then the rigs are actually being extracted from types with .cr2 files, only within Poser which supports a very rich Python scripting environment.
Is this cheating? The rig comes out exactly right, so quick actually.
But I'm just playing. Don't have to make stuff for anyone else.

prometheus
11-29-2018, 11:11 AM
I must not have been selecting the right selections on the fbx out of Daz because when I select fbx it goes back to the initial pose and I must pose it myself to what I want.

You do import the fbx from layout and load scene right, not modeler?

You do not even have to check morphs for a pose to work mostly, just export to fbx , figures morphs and props is all you need checked selected for the basics
fbx 2012 binary should work.
You do not need to have anything selected in the daz scene for it to work.
Make sure you stand on keyframe 0,
if you do animations, just check animations as well...and remember to set keyframes of course, if you use animate lite and animblocks, you need right mouse click in the animate lite bar and bake to studio keys, reversley from creating a good animated pose manually, you could create anim blocks from that and use for faster poses another time and mixing with other animblocks.

143460

- - - Updated - - -


That really does sound nice, but I can't use DS.
Everything works backward and it just drives me nuts.
Not buying any Genesis characters either.
But I enjoy the modeling process the most and I just use the original obj's from the library.
Then the rigs are actually being extracted from types with .cr2 files, only within Poser which supports a very rich Python scripting environment.
Is this cheating? The rig comes out exactly right, so quick actually.
But I'm just playing. Don't have to make stuff for anyone else.

Canīt understand why it feels backwards for you? what is it mostly that drives you nuts?

jwiede
12-01-2018, 02:51 PM
if you use animate lite and animblocks, you need right mouse click in the animate lite bar and bake to studio keys

@grafxstudio: Just to be clear, the above step needs to happen within DS prior to FBX export. If you're using animate/animblocks and don't do the bake-to-keys step, what you get on export is pretty much what you're describing (base pose without animation), so I suspect this might be your problem.

grafxstudio
12-03-2018, 09:27 AM
I tried today on a new character and the bones didn't line up at all to the object. It did come in correctly just the bones didn't line up.

prometheus
12-03-2018, 01:29 PM
I tried today on a new character and the bones didn't line up at all to the object. It did come in correctly just the bones didn't line up.

what figure..genesis version? and what lightwave version?

We have a pipeline thread about Daz to lightwave...
https://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?125710-PIPELINE-DAZstudiopro4-LIGHTWAVE/page16&highlight=daz+pipeline

for lw 2015 and genesis figures, they should import correctly, you do need to delete some items though..If you plan to apply ik booster and have that work with it smoothly, I have mentioned that in the threads.
Also for 2018, there was an issue of Lightwave adding additiona bone set or something, not sure in which thread I covered that, but it should have been fixed in 2018.01

other figures is a different matter though.

grafxstudio
12-03-2018, 03:27 PM
Genesis 8 and Lightwave 2018.7

prometheus
12-03-2018, 05:26 PM
Genesis 8 and Lightwave 2018.7

Works fine here with 2018.01 and daz genesis 8 basic female daz 4.9 pro.


what import settings in Lightwave? I always use bake rotation and lightwave joints, not lightwave bones..if you import to bones then it will align the bones perpendicular to the actual mesh.
For ik compability, I also delete the bone called genesis 8 female and the bone called fbx_base_bone_transformer...once that is done, you should be able to apply ik booster to the genesis shape pivot point and acess all the nice ik booster options, posing symmetry can be done by rotating posing one side, then directly mark itīs mirrored counter part bone and right click, then choose motion options and copy pose, you can only do this per bone item though, You can not have symmetry propagating through the whole daz figure to get left to right pose for all bones at once, only one bone at the time is whatīs possible.

Oh...maybe I should include nudity warning here? we are not so picky about these things over here where I live , and maybe I havenīt read the forum policies around that properly.



https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143482&d=1543883528

grafxstudio
12-09-2018, 05:10 PM
I have been working on my texturing all weekend. The problem is that it renders like 5 hours a frame, hardly any sss in the ears, and the sclera is not completely white. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I need to change.

143539

Kryslin
12-09-2018, 06:31 PM
Obscene resolution aside (2048 x 4096), it shouldn't take 600 minutes. While you can't see it in the thumbnail, there appears to be a lot of fireflies in the image.

Even at FiberFX's worst, I've only managed 2h16m29s (at a similar resolution).

Given the noise, I would start with the denoising workflow as found in the 2018 docs. I would also reduce specularity on those surfaces that have little use for it, and cut back the sample on AA passes, and instead work on light, SSS, reflection samples. Very little refraction is going on, so samples for that can be left at 1.

prometheus
12-09-2018, 06:55 PM
I have been working on my texturing all weekend. The problem is that it renders like 5 hours a frame, hardly any sss in the ears, and the sclera is not completely white. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I need to change.

143539

Seems itīs a bad hair day today..in the sense that a lot of post concerns hair today :) maybe itīs just me ...and doing crossposts.
Thought it is valid here as well...you have to check the thread as well...
https://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?158651-Fiber-FX-Question&p=1559974#post1559974

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143537&d=1544388540


I have taken print screens on all the materials on this figure, so I may be able to post the settings (print screens ..maybe gathered in pdf)for the materials in 2018 and using a daz genesis 2 figure, in this case it is however only standard materials..even the eye
and the cornea and eye reflection is nothing more than standard material here, could be improved with dielectric or pbr materials even for the eye, and pbr or skin material for the skin.

how the lights and environment is set up is also important of course.

To much plastic glossiness here and there, but I do not have time to perfect it..since I can not save anything either in discovery edition.

Ps.. Let me know when a new lightwave version comes out, that isnīt purely bug updates...but includes sculpting and weight paint in layout..natively.
And faster..much faster hair rendering, maybe a GPU option you know, or I may have to look at octane?

Ma3rk
01-02-2019, 01:54 AM
Hey gang,

I came across a utility the other day, somewhat by accident that shows some real promise. It's for DAZ, but it will export out to other formats, particularly obj's with full mapping textures,etc. The docs state that it has the option to export out to Renderman curves, but so far I haven't figured that out fully. Will be contacting the author soonish about that.

Anyway, here's his progression blog:

http://look-at-my-hair.blogspot.com/

The product itself is called Look At My Hair, or LAMH as the Daz identifer. It's a plug-in so essentially just bridges with DAZ. Read into that: that if bridges with one app ...

So, here's an I item quickly posed in Daz, then transfered to Lightwave via simple obj export & then did the "Bokeh" with Topaz Lens FX:

143764

And a quick test done with Iray directly in DAZ:

143765

Some good news: For some months now, I wasn't able to render even the simplest thing in Daz using Iray. My poor, aging Quadro 4000 simply couldn't take the GPU load & would over-heat. Just couldn't understand this. It used to be able to. The other night though, trying to track down a cable oUSB input, r such, I noticed that there was a fine layer of dust on the chassis back by the rear exhasut fan. It dawned on me that if it's an "exhaust" fan, why is there dust on the outside? I had to replace that fan some months ago & turns out it had not flow direction indication, & I had it in backwards.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlW8oOgkxs4

So now system is once again happy. Figured out a couple of other optimization tricks both for Daz & LW & hope to re-try a LW scene with a lot of instancing that poor old system simply hit the memory wall & couldn't make the final push to finish.

In any case, there are a couple of minor issues with LAMH that are most likely self-inflicted, but overall the interface for the tool is quite clean & works much, much better than LW's Fiber FX. Certainly a lot of similarities but I think you'll see some slick tools.

Haven't quite figured out FBX import with it just yet; most likely again due to awe & mystery of DAZ & knowing what to do exactly to get all the morphs to export properly for the hair, but i's certainly seems promising.

prometheus
01-02-2019, 07:43 AM
Thanks for the heads up.

I do however see it as only one thing, can it in daz perform better grooming and styling of the hair, of course ..if it renders fast and better than fiberfx in Lightwave and you can get away with it..by all means use daz iray.
Once you try to port it to Lightwave if possible, you are left with Lightwave render engine and the quality of fiberfx and the only thing that would be good for is the transition of the groomed/styled polychains.

Was this addon a commercial product for DAZ?

prometheus
01-02-2019, 07:54 AM
Took a look at the blog, it ha many vids to demonstrate it, looks very nice as a grooming tool..comes with a price at 49.95 USD.
Depends if you really need it ..or if you can get away with Lightwave styling tools or blenders grooming and styling, If you have Lightwave..then the rest is free, and if you by any chance have zbrush..you can use that also.

For me personally..I do not think I would need to invest in it considering the tools I have with Lightwave and blender, which I believe can do much of it..maybe not as easy all the time, but enough.

Ma3rk
01-02-2019, 02:59 PM
Took a look at the blog, it ha many vids to demonstrate it, looks very nice as a grooming tool..comes with a price at 49.95 USD.
Depends if you really need it ..or if you can get away with Lightwave styling tools or blenders grooming and styling, If you have Lightwave..then the rest is free, and if you by any chance have zbrush..you can use that also.

For me personally..I do not think I would need to invest in it considering the tools I have with Lightwave and blender, which I believe can do much of it..maybe not as easy all the time, but enough.

Sure, if you already have something that works for you. No real need to have 2 or 3 claw hammers.

I find the LW Fiber FX tools just klunky & unintuitive. I suppose you'd get the hang of it once you've invested some time, but isn't that the way of most things?

The LAMH tool like anything will take some time to become proficient, but I don't feel I'm fighting the interface & has some other features that Fiber FX doesn't appear to have anyway. Ultimately, that saves time & I'd reather spend a few dollars rather than a few hours or days.

Haven't delved into Blender, mainly from lack of time & not really wanting to try and cram yet another program into the aging wetware memory banks. At least not just yet. I like the things I'm seeing it do certainly.

ZBrush is another one of those tools that I'l love to have but the learning curve to really get proficient is somewhat long & steep. I've a friend who teaches it but I rarely see him these days, otherwise I'd consider it & pick his brains.

prometheus
01-02-2019, 05:55 PM
Sure, if you already have something that works for you. No real need to have 2 or 3 claw hammers.

I find the LW Fiber FX tools just klunky & unintuitive. I suppose you'd get the hang of it once you've invested some time, but isn't that the way of most things?

The LAMH tool like anything will take some time to become proficient, but I don't feel I'm fighting the interface & has some other features that Fiber FX doesn't appear to have anyway. Ultimately, that saves time & I'd reather spend a few dollars rather than a few hours or days.

Haven't delved into Blender, mainly from lack of time & not really wanting to try and cram yet another program into the aging wetware memory banks. At least not just yet. I like the things I'm seeing it do certainly.

ZBrush is another one of those tools that I'l love to have but the learning curve to really get proficient is somewhat long & steep. I've a friend who teaches it but I rarely see him these days, otherwise I'd consider it & pick his brains.

For me it is mostly the new fiberfx and 2018 rendering that is too slow, it would require octane for it to really kick in speed.
Blender grooming and styling I am still learning, but the particle edit/combing and cutting Is in my opinion much better, and the hair bsdf is nice, can be combined with PBR material in a mix...and I havenīt yet gone in to the new Hair PBR...which seem to rock.

Kryslin
01-02-2019, 07:38 PM
It isn't that FFX hair is slow to render, it's that you need an insane amount of AA passes for it, especially if you are using real hair sizes ( 100-200um). The larger the fibers the less passes you need. Note that reducing this by giving FFX a sample setting has been feature requested, along with the Principled Hair Shader. Still, put 1.5 Million objects (The fiber count of a dense coat of fur) into a scene, and see how fast things render, octane or otherwise (Yes, Octane will be faster, but I seem to remember something about the tiger render in the blog still taking a long time, even with octane)

I'll agree, though, that the grooming tools available, even ones I've authored, are klunky. They need to be interactive, and support simple operations the simple, basic grooming operations (grow, comb, curl, trim) we all use in day to day life.

And, as I've discovered, most of the training materials in FFX are for older versions of Lightwave (9.6 and 11.6(?)). FFX, in general, needs to be less of a black box to use.

prometheus
01-03-2019, 07:35 AM
It isn't that FFX hair is slow to render, it's that you need an insane amount of AA passes for it, especially if you are using real hair sizes ( 100-200um). The larger the fibers the less passes you need. Note that reducing this by giving FFX a sample setting has been feature requested, along with the Principled Hair Shader. Still, put 1.5 Million objects (The fiber count of a dense coat of fur) into a scene, and see how fast things render, octane or otherwise (Yes, Octane will be faster, but I seem to remember something about the tiger render in the blog still taking a long time, even with octane)

I'll agree, though, that the grooming tools available, even ones I've authored, are klunky. They need to be interactive, and support simple operations the simple, basic grooming operations (grow, comb, curl, trim) we all use in day to day life.

And, as I've discovered, most of the training materials in FFX are for older versions of Lightwave (9.6 and 11.6(?)). FFX, in general, needs to be less of a black box to use.

I donīt follow you here, I need tweaking interaction and feedback on how the hair would look once I change something, VPR is extremely slow to update the iterations, and that still with lowest AA settings..and it wonīt be god
for getting any decent feedback either, so I would still call it slow AA is a part of the rendering..and if it takes a lot of time to render it..it is slow.

When I tweak hair in a certain known free software ..With GPU, I get much much faster feedback on how the hair will look and it iterates to a decent image much faster, not only that..I think I can get a better realism in hair shading as well.
I think the devs made a little mistake by not trying to implement a GPU render solution natively, it is now in competion with GPU renders that also does it without any major cost.

Kryslin
01-03-2019, 09:08 AM
Even though there is only one object added when you add FiberFX to an object, you are actually adding [(density x 100000) x cluster fibers] objects (100% density = 100,000 fibers. 10 fibers per cluster = 1,000,000 fibers)(Yes, I'm sure of the numbers) to your scene. For a good, dense coat of procedural fur, that's .75 - 1.5 million fibers... each one a primitive that has to be evaluated when rendered, whether that's f9 or VPR. I'm not sure how that certain 3D FOS (Free, Open Source) software handles hair and fur at the render level - last I knew (pre-cycles) it was particle based (2.6 or 2.7).

I use the OpenGL preview fibers to make sure styles look decent...It updates much faster than the VPR. The colors aren't very good, but it does show the style decently...

prometheus
01-03-2019, 11:54 AM
Even though there is only one object added when you add FiberFX to an object, you are actually adding [(density x 100000) x cluster fibers] objects (100% density = 100,000 fibers. 10 fibers per cluster = 1,000,000 fibers)(Yes, I'm sure of the numbers) to your scene. For a good, dense coat of procedural fur, that's .75 - 1.5 million fibers... each one a primitive that has to be evaluated when rendered, whether that's f9 or VPR. I'm not sure how that certain 3D FOS (Free, Open Source) software handles hair and fur at the render level - last I knew (pre-cycles) it was particle based (2.6 or 2.7).

I use the OpenGL preview fibers to make sure styles look decent...It updates much faster than the VPR. The colors aren't very good, but it does show the style decently...

The openGL presentation of fiberfx in Lightwave is actually pretty good, but sometimes you really need a full interactive renderer to see those tiny strands and shading as they eventually should render, not approximations.

I will try and record something some day.

prometheus
01-04-2019, 11:47 AM
The openGL presentation of fiberfx in Lightwave is actually pretty good, but sometimes you really need a full interactive renderer to see those tiny strands and shading as they eventually should render, not approximations.

I will try and record something some day.

In lightwave Layout for (styling guides) you have..
Push
scale
straighten
single
gather

In Blender (particle edit) we have..
Comb
smooth
add
length
puff
cut
weight

Those in orange is what is missing in lightwave..and cut/trim and add/grow is very important tools to have..and we are lacking them.

Advantage for Lightwave when it comes to openGL shading of fiberfx VS blender, and as I know of, it is easier to set fibers per surface from an fbx file, while blender I am not really sure on how
to work it to the best yet, textures yes, but not surfaces, may depend on what format that is imported as well.

some Advantage for lighwave may also be that we can use pre-made curves or polychains from exported files, or modeler created ones, where I think that seems to be a bit of a hazzle in blender..may need accompanying addons.

prometheus
01-04-2019, 12:16 PM
some Advantage for lighwave may also be that we can use pre-made curves or polychains from exported files, or modeler created ones, where I think that seems to be a bit of a hazzle in blender..may need accompanying addons.


Just found the hairnet plugin and installed it for blender, so what I mentioned above I think Hairnet will overcome, it can create hair from sheets, fibers, curves...which one of them to use for Lightwave modeled polychains or from
other 3d software that is exported..I donīt know yet...will try.

Oddly..I had a question on it on blenderartist forums, and no one could answer my question..my question must have been difficult for them to understand....though I specificly mentioned I wanted to turn
imported hair strands (polychains) in to particle hair for the sake of rendering with cycles hair.

prometheus
01-04-2019, 12:33 PM
Just tested it..and yes, you can work with booth of these world and swap between blender and lightwave or vice versa.
I created some strands with fiberfx in modeler, saved as obj, and imported to blender, the parts comes in as two seperat meshes, select the fibers and the sphere and run the hairnet plugin and use fibers, voila...it is now cycles particle hair, they render in cycles, you can add child hair, sytle it with curl or what ever, style it with particle edit..or enable dynamics, it all works.

So If I prefer to work with Lightwave modeled curves/ polychains or fiberfx..I can do that and then send to blender for forther styling..then choose to render with cycles. or if I prefer render in lightwave I can disconnect the hair (static) and sent back to lightwave and use fiberfx.

Greenlaw
01-04-2019, 01:28 PM
My experience is that you can never have too many tools for styling hair. I have a long list of techniques, some newer and some very old, and I might still use some really old tricks when the need arises.

For complex styles, I found ZBrush works really well but that was a huge learning curve for me, and it took a lot of practice before I started getting good results. Also, there are a few 'gotchas' after importing the FiberMesh guides to LightWave that has to be dealt with for animation. (I've described those a few times in other threads.) I imagine you'll be dealing with the same things when you import guides created with other 'hair' programs.

I've been able to do some nice stuff with LightWave's native styling tools but, yeah, it takes patience and a lot of practice. Actually, that's probably going to be true with any 'hair' program. Learning to style hair with digital tools really is an art in itself.

I remember coming across LAMH several years ago when I was looking for tools that exported CyHair wigs, which FiberFX supports. It didn't back then, and I'm guessing it still doesn't, but I am wondering, does anybody know of ANY program that exports CyHair wigs? Or was that format pretty much a dead on arrival?

Thanks in advance for any helpful info.

prometheus
01-04-2019, 02:36 PM
My experience is that you can never have too many tools for styling hair. I have a long list of techniques, some newer and some very old, and I might still use some really old tricks when the need arises.

For complex styles, I found ZBrush works really well but that was a huge learning curve for me, and it took a lot of practice before I started getting good results. Also, there are a few 'gotchas' after importing the FiberMesh guides to LightWave that has to be dealt with for animation. (I've described those a few times in other threads.) I imagine you'll be dealing with the same things when you import guides created with other 'hair' programs.

I've been able to do some nice stuff with LightWave's native styling tools but, yeah, it takes patience and a lot of practice. Actually, that's probably going to be true with any 'hair' program. Learning to style hair with digital tools really is an art in itself.

I remember coming across LAMH several years ago when I was looking for tools that exported CyHair wigs, which FiberFX supports. It didn't back then, and I'm guessing it still doesn't, but I am wondering, does anybody know of ANY program that exports CyHair wigs? Or was that format pretty much a dead on arrival?

Thanks in advance for any helpful info.


Indeed.
Cyhair I donīt know much about, seem like a common hair format only..not a native hair creation tool, maya has something for xgen that converts to cyhair, on github..
I will take a look at that soon.

Author of Cyhair..
http://www.cemyuksel.com/research/hairmodels/
https://github.com/syoyo/xgen-spline-to-cyhair

As you say..never enough tools, I jumped in to houdini apprentcie after several months just now, havenīt worked much with the hair tools in there, managed to make a nice hair continous draw of hair braids, using guide brushes and draw hair, One may need to lower initial density though.
After that it took a while to figure out where to choose the node and then just save out as geometry..(obj format)
Then I tried the import to lightwave..but those comes in as closed curves.

So fired up blender, and it imports those houdini obj hair files just nicely..and doesnīt close the curves, then I saved out from blender to obj again..and imported to lightwave..and yes,
it worked.

I havenīt tried them with fiberfx in layout yet, it is possible it will crash..or the fibers will render wonky..
I am working on it..and I will try to take all notes, possibly record it..if I got that houdini grooming workflow working..then that would be great.

prometheus
01-04-2019, 02:47 PM
Itīs not a perfect match from houdinis main creation, it misses fibers among others, but I am working on it, may be standing on the wrong node when I save it out, or need to increase something in the settings in houdini for it to match the obj output.

The draw hair tool in Houdini is something Not blender Nor Lightwave really can do with such ease.
I only need to make sure the amount of strands matches now..and that I can render them properly in Lightwave, I will try the hair net plugin for cycles in blender as well on these fibers, so I can choose to render any houdini groomed hair in either blender or Lightwave.


https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143774&d=1546638240

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143775&d=1546638258

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143776&d=1546638284



143774

143775

143776

prometheus
01-04-2019, 02:57 PM
Nope..none of the above exported fibers work.
Lightwave crashes, tried merging points, copying edges as I do from blender normally..which works, but not with this, tried strandmaker..still crashes.

and in blender I can not convert the fibers to particle hair either, different length causes issues.

Greenlaw
01-04-2019, 03:05 PM
... fired up blender, and it imports those houdini obj hair files just nicely..and doesnīt close the curves, then I saved out from blender to obj again..and imported to lightwave..and yes,it worked.

Cool! I've started dabbling with Blender again so I might check that out.

Yeah, the main thing for me with hair created externally is getting proper weights and UV maps on the guides after importing. Since you can select the root points it's easy creep up the chain to apply weights. You really only need UV mapping if you want to use the character's skin texture to color the hair (like an animal's fur texture.) To do that, you can use OD Tools Transfer Maps or Weighter 2 to suck UV from the character an apply it to the root points. This works for morph maps too. (Note: I haven't personally been able to get Weighter 2 to work with Windows 10...but it's supposed to work with Window 10, so your mileage may vary.) If you're using an older x32 version of LightWave, DraingBGVmap works great...that's what I used for the Brudders stuff way back when. You can download that from Mike (Dodgey) Green's website.

If you create the hair using LightWave's Edit Guides, you don't have to worry about that because the guides are grown directly from the mesh's vertices. I have a version of the Brudders characters that had fur created this way and it looked great. Unfortunately, I couldn't get it to render without chattering (this was many years ago,) which was when I turned to ZBrush FiberMesh, and those guides did not have the chattering issue. But this was a long time ago.

It should be better now in LightWave 2018 but I have yet to do a full-on hairy character test with animation with 2018. Hopefully soon though. I finally got my home studio and render farm back in shape over the holidays and I'm almost ready to work on my personal projects again.

Greenlaw
01-04-2019, 03:11 PM
Regarding crashes, you need to make sure every guide has a root point. If even one is missing, FiberFX will crash. This is because FiberFX needs this info to know where to start growing the fibers.

I think merging might mess this up. It's been a while so I'll need to check that. Can't do that now but maybe after I get home tonight.

prometheus
01-04-2019, 03:32 PM
Regarding crashes, you need to make sure every guide has a root point. If even one is missing, FiberFX will crash. This is because FiberFX needs this info to know where to start growing the fibers.

I think merging might mess this up. It's been a while so I'll need to check that. Can't do that now but maybe after I get home tonight.

Yes..I assumed that, but how do we make a root point? isnīt strandmaker taking care of that?

I could post the obj file from houdini for you to try out.

as for blender, yes..you really should dive in to that again, wether or not for styling, rendering in blender, or just styling in blender then send to lightwave, just send as obj and copy them in edge mode once in layout, delete it in polymode and paste back to edges, that should work without crashing lightwave.

And for creating spline curves in Lightwave modeler, you just use strandmaker to convert to polychains, save out lwo, and once imported to blender.. run the hairnet plugin, and choose fiber mode ..and you got your lighwave Polychain made in to cycles particle hair, fully dynamicly and particle editable...with options to use child hair, set a display step setting of 6 for smoother strands, and if you enter
particle edit, you have to make sure you set the draw path steps equally to 6.
use deflect emitter so your guides donīt intrude into the scalp mesh.

https://en.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/Objects/HairNet

I downloaded the zipfile from the green button (clone or download)
and installed in blender directly from zipfile...I think you need to check the testing category in blender addons, otherwise the plugin wonīt show up..make sure to check it as active and save preferences.
the hair net will show up in the particle tab.

Greenlaw
01-04-2019, 03:37 PM
Yes..I assumed that, but how do we make a root point? isnīt strandmaker taking care of that?
It should. Yeah, post the file and I'll check it tonight and see if it's working for me.

Are you in 2015 or 2018? I'm still using 2015 at work but starting to use 2018 more often at home.

Thanks for the tips about Blender hair and LightWave. Will definitely check it out when I can.

prometheus
01-04-2019, 03:56 PM
It should. Yeah, post the file and I'll check it tonight and see if it's working for me.

Are you in 2015 or 2018? I'm still using 2015 at work but starting to use 2018 more often at home.

Thanks for the tips about Blender hair and LightWave. Will definitely check it out when I can.

posting a zipfile, two lwo files, one is the file I imported to lightwave from blender, and one I copied only the strands, there was too many root strands based on houdinis base sphere, so I just copied the drawn strands in edge mode and pasted back, and also added a simple sphere for reference..itīs not good for any proper hair, but enough for testing.

I think you are in for a lot of crashes though, if you can not set the proper root points.
I was looking with info on point order and one point poly vs 2 point polys..but I donīt know how they most accurately should be really.

Ma3rk
01-04-2019, 05:48 PM
Nope..none of the above exported fibers work.
Lightwave crashes, tried merging points, copying edges as I do from blender normally..which works, but not with this, tried strandmaker..still crashes.

and in blender I can not convert the fibers to particle hair either, different length causes issues.

What format are you exporting to?

Perhaps I can take a look in Polytrans for ya.

M.

prometheus
01-04-2019, 06:03 PM
What format are you exporting to?

Perhaps I can take a look in Polytrans for ya.

M.

The files are there in the zipfiles, I seriously doubt polytrans can do anything helpful with this, they are exported to obj files from houdini, and they come in as such in blender, and once exported from blender as obj, they come in as decent obj in Lightwave, the problem is that fiberfx crashes them, so I am not sure how you think polytrans will correct the polychains.

And by the way..I kind of managed to render houdini hair now in blender, I had to open the houdini obj in blender as imported obj, I can not run hairnet in blender at this stage, I had to save out to obj again from blender, then open in Lightwave..and from there save out to lwo..and the back to blender and import as lwo, then the hairnet addon in blender could interprete it correctly.

So now I only need to get this back to lightwave again without fiberfx crashing, otherwise I may stick with blender rendering.
I also need a way to match exact number of strands when exporting, it doesnt export out all the strands that are visible in houdini anyway..so I have to do a research on that, I could of course maybe just add extra child particle strands in blender as well, but good to know exactly what is going on when exporting.



The curve advect in houdini is cool, so many new tools I need to learn to tweak, it, I got the basics of growing, cutting, and drawing, clumping, parting..adjust lenght etc, frizz and exporting it to obj, convert to lw..and working to render in blender now anyway.

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143783&d=1546650146

143783

prometheus
01-04-2019, 06:36 PM
And here is added child hair particles, over that same houdini exported hair object, I rotated it about so we can see some additional larger wind flow which didnīt show in the images previously ..I changed hair scale size, and added the hair BSDf ( note that there is even a better hair sh ader one out there, which I havenīt installed)
you could also mix this shader with principled ones, this was the reflection mode, transmission is probably better though..but slower.

check render stats for 32 samples, 16 seconds for that completion, and in even shorter time you get a good decent ipr iteration preview anyway.

Lightwave devs, you guys need to revisit the fiberfx rendering..especially the speed..if it means getting a native solution for GPU..then do it, otherwise it will be a free solution compared to both the cost of Lightwave, and additional cost of octane.

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143784&d=1546652185

143784

Ma3rk
01-04-2019, 06:59 PM
The files are there in the zipfiles, I seriously doubt polytrans can do anything helpful with this, they are exported to obj files from houdini, and they come in as such in blender, and once exported from blender as obj, they come in as decent obj in Lightwave, the problem is that fiberfx crashes them, so I am not sure how you think polytrans will correct the polychains.

143783

I didn't understand at what stage you were having the problem is all. Still, I'll take a peek.

That last posting is looking pretty nice. Then again I always did like redheads.

prometheus
01-04-2019, 07:21 PM
I didn't understand at what stage you were having the problem is all. Still, I'll take a peek.

That last posting is looking pretty nice. Then again I always did like redheads.

Iīll try with a human next time, need to spend some time with houdini grooming first.
And me too..like those redhead hair. :)

erikals
01-05-2019, 06:28 AM
hi, can you post the original Houdini obj?


Lightwave devs, you guys need to revisit the fiberfx rendering..especially the speed..
yep, it's nothing to write home about.

prometheus
01-05-2019, 11:42 AM
hi, can you post the original Houdini obj?


yep, it's nothing to write home about.

canīt recall which one was directly the original from houdini, have deleted some stuff.
I would need to make new ones, I have spent to much time with it right now..so I need to drop it for a while...not today anyway.
I noticed that when I export the strands, I do not get the full guides as seen in houdini, I could change some houdini settings so that it did actually save out the ful guides, but when I tried that in
blender with hairnet, it just froze...so I have much more to research to understand it.

maybe tomorrow.

erikals
01-05-2019, 04:43 PM
if someone else want to give the Houdini <> LightWave fur a shot >
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYhocENu-gw

think i'll stick to the LightWave methods though, now that i have learned quite a few tricks >
https://www.youtube.com/c/erikals/search?query=FiberFX

prometheus
01-05-2019, 06:04 PM
if someone else want to give the Houdini <> LightWave fur a shot >
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYhocENu-gw

think i'll stick to the LightWave methods though, now that i have learned quite a few tricks >
https://www.youtube.com/c/erikals/search?query=FiberFX

The styling, groom tools in Lightwave arenīt the best nor perfect, but I would say that is at level 2 of what is most important, level 1 is the renderspeed...I think it is terribly slow, but I havenīt compared to Houdini..only blender.
You can do a lot with the styling and grooming tools in Lightwave if you know your tricks....But it is the rendertimes that break it for me.

Whatīs good to know is that styling with curves, polychains, or fiberfx in Lightwave...and then port to blender for rendering seems easier than porting from houdini.

I just miss a good cutting, and adding of hair in Lightwave and maybe deflect emitter/hair (which blender has), and the renderspeed and maybe some of the houdini grooming tools, especially how you just can draw out pigtails or hair from any surface in a continous flow, your showcase of using magic bevel for
drawing out polychains maybe is a thing that comes close, but not as slick and effective as houdinis draw hair tool.

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143822&d=1546736474


143822

erikals
01-05-2019, 07:24 PM
our showcase of using magic bevel for drawing out polychains maybe is a thing that comes close, but not as slick and effective as houdinis draw hair tool.
true, however i find myself creating hair & fur quite seldom, so LW works alright.

i'm still using 11.6 FiberFX, which renders much faster. (though at a slight different quality)

using other apps for grooming is more straight forward, and certainly an option to be considered.
still, i've encountered "gotchas" in other apps too when working with fine detail.
- for example very short groomed hair in the eye area

- and side parting
https://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155361-Is-Sasquatch-dead&p=1527879&viewfull=1#post1527879

and agree, render speed for hair is the biggest drawback in LW2018
hopefully future GPU support for the render engine won't be too tricky.

prometheus
01-05-2019, 09:36 PM
true, however i find myself creating hair & fur quite seldom, so LW works alright.

i'm still using 11.6 FiberFX, which renders much faster. (though at a slight different quality)

using other apps for grooming is more straight forward, and certainly an option to be considered.
still, i've encountered "gotchas" in other apps too when working with fine detail.
- for example very short groomed hair in the eye area

- and side parting
https://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155361-Is-Sasquatch-dead&p=1527879&viewfull=1#post1527879

and agree, render speed for hair is the biggest drawback in LW2018
hopefully future GPU support for the render engine won't be too tricky.



Yes a bit of a pity it couldnīt render faster..cause I actually like the new shading and lights better than what I can cook up with blender...for the moment, and especially with just daz figures and especially eyes.

Re-posting this, just standard layers, not even spec maps, no diffuse, no normals etc..just plain shading with some bump and specularity...so for skin and eyes etc, it can be much much better, and I can accept the render speed on that, but once
turning fiberfx on, it just sinks my motivation instantly, motivating me to jump over to another software.
This is all VPR though, I can not verify the final renders that much since I get checkerboard patterns all over, thus I am not even trying.

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143537&d=1544388540



For the other software, even at 32 path trace samples only, and maybe 16 seconds in the interactive renderer, I get a pretty decent refined image...I would have to wait much much longer than that for VPR in Lightwave.
never mind some bald scalp areas, was just testing roughly.
I still need to learn more about the styling curve, wave, spiral, braid tools and more, but I find them quite good...I need to evaluate and compare those against Lightwave styling some day as well.

Bias maps etc, that I need to get back to once I covered more basics in that mixer software :) I have a lot of tutorials to follow as well, I may plan to specificly dig in to hair in blender for a couple of months and learn as much as I can..cause I find it so promising
but if Bias maps etc or combing based on textures etc is out of the question, I may have to rethink.

Daz 8 female, imported to lightwave first, then send to blender, but itīs all blender particle hair..and that was before I knew about hairnet..which will enhance my options to style guides with curves, Polychains in lightwave..or directly with curves in blender.

advantages in blender is in my opinion..apart from the renderspeed, the combing, which allows for mesh detection (particle deflect) and cutting of the hair, adding new hairstrands, and that you can paint with grease pencil directly on to the surface of a figure, then convert it with hairnet to particle hair, still fully particle editable with the mentioned tools.

The transmission mode for the hair is especially nice if backlit, like on hair on a summer evening, sung going down and yields that soft translucent glow in the hair.

As for the UI of styling, I actually prefer popup windows and tabs to click through in Lightwave, in blender I have to scroll through so much, back and forth..feels like more work to do with the mouse scroll, and there are lot of stuff that isnīt directly connected to the hair, in Lightwave I feel it is more focused on each area.

Oh..6 a clock in the morning, itīs time for Vampires to creep in to a coffin.

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143824&d=1546749084

erikals
01-05-2019, 11:21 PM
As for the UI of styling, I actually prefer popup windows and tabs to click through in Lightwave, in blender I have to scroll through so much, back and forth..feels like more work to do with the mouse scroll, and there are lot of stuff that isnīt directly connected to the hair, in Lightwave I feel it is more focused on each area.
agree, and neither are optimal, both need more work. LW needs docking options.


Oh..6 a clock in the morning, itīs time for Vampires to creep in to a coffin.
7:23

i'm afraid i'll see the morning sun...

https://i.imgur.com/9LVd43c.gif

prometheus
01-06-2019, 09:08 AM
agree, and neither are optimal, both need more work. LW needs docking options.


7:23

i'm afraid i'll see the morning sun...

https://i.imgur.com/9LVd43c.gif

Ha..ha, nice one, Goodmorning and I hope you survived.

erikals
01-06-2019, 02:26 PM
fighting the day-rythm over here... always...

http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/sport/t31043.gif

jwiede
01-07-2019, 04:42 PM
As for the UI of styling, I actually prefer popup windows and tabs to click through in Lightwave, in blender I have to scroll through so much, back and forth..feels like more work to do with the mouse scroll, and there are lot of stuff that isnīt directly connected to the hair, in Lightwave I feel it is more focused on each area.

Right, but it's also important to remember that Blender's UI is highly configurable, and you can customize it to address your needs.

In contrast, there's nowhere near the same ability to reconfigure the LW UI as needed. You can't just "redesign" and aggregate various UIs and panels' controls in LW the same way you can in other pkgs with configurable UIs, and that "UX cost" only worsens with time -- esp. for features like FFX already aggravated by split-app workflow (and instability) issues.

prometheus
01-08-2019, 08:23 AM
Right, but it's also important to remember that Blender's UI is highly configurable, and you can customize it to address your needs.

In contrast, there's nowhere near the same ability to reconfigure the LW UI as needed. You can't just "redesign" and aggregate various UIs and panels' controls in LW the same way you can in other pkgs with configurable UIs, and that "UX cost" only worsens with time -- esp. for features like FFX already aggravated by split-app workflow (and instability) issues.

Iīm no expert on the blender UI, but I do not know my way around moving tabs and buttons around, In Lightwave i can move my tabs or menu buttons anywhere I like, but in blender I do not know how to do this..am I lacking the experience here or isnīt blender that highly configurable.
Moving and rescaling windows and changing UI colors, shading etc and size that is great, but to simply move the tools menu, create,grease pencil etc...donīt know how, same goes with arranging each section you have in that menu.

So to me the experience isnīt as "Higly configurable" as I want, so in that regards Lightwave feels more configurable than blender ..but maybe it is my lack of knowing blenders UI?
If I could though, the first thing I would change in blender UI is the vertical menu, In daz I could do that..and I found it more comfortable to have text running as it should be read.

Kryslin
01-08-2019, 10:16 AM
Right, but it's also important to remember that Blender's UI is highly configurable, and you can customize it to address your needs.

In contrast, there's nowhere near the same ability to reconfigure the LW UI as needed. You can't just "redesign" and aggregate various UIs and panels' controls in LW the same way you can in other pkgs with configurable UIs, and that "UX cost" only worsens with time -- esp. for features like FFX already aggravated by split-app workflow (and instability) issues.

I'll agree with you on the plain fact that FFX suffers from the split app workflow, but I'll have to (mostly) disagree on the stability issues - its like going from the slopes of an active, erupting volcano (LW 9.5) to the middle of the continent (LW 2018 PC). Yes, FFX can be crashed, but it no longer crashes if you simply look at it funny, sneeze at it, use harsh language in its vicinity(a common occurence, I'd imagine), or even just sitting there, doing nothing.

My few crashes in the 2018 iteration have all dealt with things that I did : User generated bias maps (still waiting on my request for information on them, not that it matters now), incompatibility between versions settings (I agree with you that this needs to be handled better), and just plain user foolishness (like getting upset with FFX, telling it to cover an object with 24M fibers, and watch it crash after telling you you're out of memory)...

Ma3rk
01-08-2019, 09:00 PM
Ok. Well, ended up in a bit of a rabbit hole there, but I managed to crawl out.

This sort of started when I was having problems rendering in Daz but no real issues in Layout. An Iray render would eventually just peg my GPU temp & if I didn't monitor would shut the system down. Couldn't figure it out & this has been going on for some months. Turns out to have a perfect storm of several things.

A) Had chassis fan that died some time ago. No flow direction indicator & turns out I had it drawing in instead of venting. Flipped it around.

B) SoCal's air is so filthy that I've had to open up & blow everything out with an air compressor, every 2-4 weeks. About to remedy that in another way.

C) Some deep, hidden totally indecyperable settings in the nVidia panel apparently decided that no matter what, overclock. Reset to defaults & cold started system.

System purrs like the kitten it used to be now, no matter what.

Anyway, finally was able to do some comparisons. The Daz render had FireFly filter and some noise filtration & used the same HDR for lighting.

Still had to do a bit of work in Modeler (splitting out things ,etc.) & bunch of surface tweeks in both, but not too bad. Exported out via OBJ; finally found some info on FBX morph export rules that I need to try still.

I did get a reply back from Alessandro Mastronardi and he did say that he was considering curve export in the next update to LAMH. That's the only real way this would work for animation.


Rendered in Daz:

143839

And in Layout (2018)

143840

erikals
01-08-2019, 09:11 PM
nice LightWave render.

prometheus
01-08-2019, 11:37 PM
Ok. Well, ended up in a bit of a rabbit hole there, but I managed to crawl out.

This sort of started when I was having problems rendering in Daz but no real issues in Layout. An Iray render would eventually just peg my GPU temp & if I didn't monitor would shut the system down. Couldn't figure it out & this has been going on for some months. Turns out to have a perfect storm of several things.

A) Had chassis fan that died some time ago. No flow direction indicator & turns out I had it drawing in instead of venting. Flipped it around.

B) SoCal's air is so filthy that I've had to open up & blow everything out with an air compressor, every 2-4 weeks. About to remedy that in another way.

C) Some deep, hidden totally indecyperable settings in the nVidia panel apparently decided that no matter what, overclock. Reset to defaults & cold started system.

System purrs like the kitten it used to be now, no matter what.

Anyway, finally was able to do some comparisons. The Daz render had FireFly filter and some noise filtration & used the same HDR for lighting.

Still had to do a bit of work in Modeler (splitting out things ,etc.) & bunch of surface tweeks in both, but not too bad. Exported out via OBJ; finally found some info on FBX morph export rules that I need to try still.

I did get a reply back from Alessandro Mastronardi and he did say that he was considering curve export in the next update to LAMH. That's the only real way this would work for animation.


Rendered in Daz:

143839

And in Layout (2018)

143840


Cute...but itīs missing some Global illlumination, try that..and or additional lights.

Ma3rk
01-09-2019, 09:43 AM
Cute...but itīs missing some Global illlumination, try that..and or additional lights.

I know, but this was meant to be just an as close to what Daz put out with its defaults. No additional lighting other than the HDR & very few surface tweeks in LW. Even if something is surfaced in DAZ with their advanced settings (basically Principled), but only exports geometry & texture images so you're sort of starting from scratch. Eventually I'll convert them to PBR & build up a surface preset library then do a properly lit scene.

I've been watching the vids for the LAMH editor. Some UI differences with them & current version but mostly the same. Allessandro makes it look easy so I'll see.

I found a bald headed Trump bust model I intend to use for practice.

prometheus
01-09-2019, 10:07 AM
I know, but this was meant to be just an as close to what Daz put out with its defaults. No additional lighting other than the HDR & very few surface tweeks in LW. Even if something is surfaced in DAZ with their advanced settings (basically Principled), but only exports geometry & texture images so you're sort of starting from scratch. Eventually I'll convert them to PBR & build up a surface preset library then do a properly lit scene.

I've been watching the vids for the LAMH editor. Some UI differences with them & current version but mostly the same. Allessandro makes it look easy so I'll see.

I found a bald headed Trump bust model I intend to use for practice.

Yes..but wasnīt the daz render done in iray with GI on? or was it off?
it looks like it has way more overall light, or could it be the image processing tone map, exposure or something?

I think Heīs a fine target to experiment with:)

By the way..if you showcase comparative images, I would suggest..if you can and have the time to edit, put them next to one eachother, so we directly can see the comparison, instead of forcing us users to open two images, save and open place next to eachother.
If you do not have photoshop, try krita and just expand the canvas double the size in percentage on height or in width, then paste second image in there, re-save to jpg at 80% quality should be enough.

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143844&d=1547054107


143844

Ma3rk
01-09-2019, 02:18 PM
Yes..but wasnīt the daz render done in iray with GI on? or was it off?
it looks like it has way more overall light, or could it be the image processing tone map, exposure or something?

I think Heīs a fine target to experiment with:)

By the way..if you showcase comparative images, I would suggest..if you can and have the time to edit, put them next to one eachother, so we directly can see the comparison, instead of forcing us users to open two images, save and open place next to eachother.
If you do not have photoshop, try krita and just expand the canvas double the size in percentage on height or in width, then paste second image in there, re-save to jpg at 80% quality should be enough.


The Daz controls are beffudling at best (as if Layout's much better in spots), so just trying to find things is problematic; probably something else going on with it I'm unaware, but the attempt was just the GI & Iray. Also, Daz has only 8-bit export that I've been able to find. Somewhat surprising since it is gaining reputation these days. The LW renders were just F9's & saved as openexr and PSD. Render settings between the two are Apples & Kumquats too.

I considered doing a single, side by side, but why in the world are you viewing that way? Simply open the first then clik the Next button in lower left. After that, repeatedly clicking the next toggles very rapidly in the same window. Much better way to compare frankly.

And ya, he's a pretty good character to work with. Picked up several others 'cuz they were on sale & I just like critters. Hope to match this to a real world counterpart eventually:

143846

prometheus
01-10-2019, 11:13 AM
I considered doing a single, side by side, but why in the world are you viewing that way? Simply open the first then clik the Next button in lower left. After that, repeatedly clicking the next toggles very rapidly in the same window. Much better way to compare frankly.


143846

I donīt agree with you I think a single image, with direct viewpoint on the two images for the eyes to compare is far better to use and faster to compare as well.
I hate to click on small thumbs ..waithing for the load, then doing it a second time..wait to load, then once loaded it stays in cache and you can swap with the buttons...but I still think that is like, turning a page to look whats on the other side, then back again since you got the first image on the first page, then turn again...had they been on one page, you donīt have to.

Ideally maybe if you can slide wipe as we can with image viewer in lightwave after we have rendered two images, but apart from the actual what is best for the eyes to compare, it is also the fact of loading times between the images.

Ma3rk
01-10-2019, 02:14 PM
To each his own, but I'm pretty sure all those in the astronomic field, looking for minute differences amongst a sea of stars between two images, would disagree.