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vonpietro
09-28-2018, 10:17 AM
Saw this houdini preivew - over 100 plus features being brought to the new update.
https://vimeo.com/291934239

Shows some things I would love for lightwave to go into.

Better hair, better bullet control with much better fractacl breaking patterns, better cloth dynamics just to name a few.

Something to allow decent oceans.

I'd alos like to see more from newtek, the last update while nice with a new renderer, was mostly just a new renderer, i'd like to see some real attention to the modeler, updated texturing handling, and some more features in instancing to start.

what do you guys want?

Ztreem
09-28-2018, 10:36 AM
I want an overhaul of workflows and an updated gui and unification. There so many features that isn’t interactive and this just kills workflow. I have realized that this will never happen or take forever to fix so I have almost completly moved on.

TheLexx
09-28-2018, 10:53 AM
Heading maybe shoulda been "Ooo, look at Houdini Next" rather than couched as a LW thread, but yeah darn impressive. I think LW2019 should have a "Make Lion Mane" button, then take it from there. ;)

EDIT - Actually, make that stratospherically spondoolickly incandescently impressive..... :bowdown:

erikals
09-28-2018, 11:05 AM
not sure i need to say, should be obvious these days.

i'll leave a clue > catch up with the competition.

https://i.imgur.com/VdDIKfQ.gif

TheLexx
09-28-2018, 11:15 AM
But then again, Houdini has "large Hollywood team" written all over it, whereas LW has one-man-studio or small team written over it - the Kat mantra of "Go in, get it done, then get out". And to recreate that lion scene alone would mean having to watch an entire David Attenborough series and every episode of Parsley the Lion. :D

OFF
09-28-2018, 01:10 PM
If to be a realist:
Volumetrics to VDB export.
Better OGL performance.
Better dynamics.

Paul_Boland
09-28-2018, 02:04 PM
I don't want a start thinking about the new version of Lightwave until the current version is fixed, specifically the FiberFX bug that prevents loading a second object with FiberFX applied to it into a scene that already has such an object in it.

Qexit
09-28-2018, 02:34 PM
How about a LW2018.5 release in good time for Christmas :D

3dslider
09-28-2018, 02:38 PM
Unified for two Gui, bright as modeler for procedural modeling, better FX smoke, OSL backend, sculpting tool, painting tool, automata slider to setting up for adding to ui with rigging and endomporh, VFX Tool inside ?(planar tracking, rotoscoping, etc...), more PBR model of BRDF, cloth system as marvelous designer, node animation as mograph, two SDK to be working in C and other in C++, editor for scripting in Python as interactive to change inside ui and 3d model, better animation, more control to flocking, adding to crowd tool, AI denoising and of course improve internal 3D rendering pathtracing more speed :)

It is time to make more interesting for Lightwave 2019 !

Kudos to Lightwave team.

Dan Ritchie
09-28-2018, 02:59 PM
Well, they talked about a new particle system, so that sounds good.
Obviously we want to see a start on unification, even if it's just being able to select points/polygons/edges, move. translate and scale them, and an API for that. Let 3rd parties fill in the many details of specific modeling tools.
I don't know really what a "modern" workflow looks like.

Me personally, I'd like the ability to paint instances into a scene.

hrgiger
09-28-2018, 04:39 PM
For them to throw modeler out and start over.

jwiede
09-28-2018, 05:06 PM
A 2018.5 release that contains significantly more than just bug fixes or internalizations of external tools/libraries/plugins.

Solid, tangible evidence of significant modeling infrastructure development (including SDK accessibility).

Snosrap
09-28-2018, 06:12 PM
I've got a feeling that with the year 2019 fast approaching and with the recent acquisition of Metamorphic we are going to get a 2019 paid upgrade. I really think the free .5 upgrade with new features is a thing of the past for LW, I hope I'm wrong but that's what it feels like.

Nicolas Jordan
09-28-2018, 07:16 PM
On the rendering side of things I would like to see

-Native rounded edges shader
-Native Sun/sky lighting system
-A newer lens flare/bloom post process similar to what Octane has.


On the modeling side there are many things but here are a few top ones for me.

-Ability to shift select ctrl select model layers like other modern software has.
-More options for modeling layers such as being able to choose how background reference layers are shaded in Open GL like having a background layer bully textured etc.
-Many other things that are to numerous to list but can easily be seen in other software.

Nicolas Jordan
09-28-2018, 07:19 PM
I've got a feeling that with the year 2019 fast approaching and with the recent acquisition of Metamorphic we are going to get a 2019 paid upgrade. I really think the free .5 upgrade with new features is a thing of the past for LW, I hope I'm wrong but that's what it feels like.

I think your right. I'm pretty sure we will only get bug fix updates for paid upgrades now.

prometheus
09-29-2018, 10:24 AM
LEVEL 1

1. Complete overhaul of every action, which means almost anything needs a much much much better Undo system,
Lightwave will undoubtly be compared against the cheapest engine out there...such as blender which handles a lot more undo actions within model creation, adding modifiers applying them,
then step back with undo to un apply them, undoing nodes and much much more..Anyone used to blender or many other software will just go mad if there isnīt a better undo system.

2. UI overhaul, we need to change values for several channels at once, such as blender, modo and houdini does..
itīs just too frustrating having to enter 3 channel values each little tweak you need to do.
Color changes should take place in realtime for the UI without the need of closing and restarting the software.

Fully scalable windows, and prefered a way of docking tabs in some kind of adobe way.
Enhancing the nodes, meaning...scrool zoom to a much fuller zoom level than today, fix uggly looks such as jagged none node connections,
make nodes replacable and intersect place a node when placed between other nodes.

3. Modeling tools in modeler And layout, revamp cross over as much as possilbe, if it finally can work only in layout just as well..then fine,
issues will arrive where so many plugins may be broken unless keeping some sort of old modeler or providing one,
as well as focused workflow may be lost unless they can make Layout act as focused as modeler does.

4. Modeling and other task in layout need more of procedural workflow, such as fracture tools etc.
These are in my opinion the BACKBONE LEVEL ONE Required changes.

LEVEL 2

1. Native GPU rendering solution
2. Native sculpting modeler/ layout.
3. Native fluid system fire and smoke(though TFD is sweet in some ways, it is not in tune/ sync with Lightwave in my opinion)
a Native fluid system would have the need to consider the new volumetric system and as such within the developers agenda and
time scheme, they should change the volumetrics within the fluid system at the same time, currently there are issues of workflow slow down, and compability issueswith the 2018 engine and TFD volumetrics.
Particle advection isnīt resolved still, and multiscattering is using a different system than a PBR shading system .
.and also quite slow in comparison to other systems, also not in tune when tweakin shading curves within VPr with issues such as extremely slow and with risc to crash.


I think these steps are not something that would put Lightwave on top, merely just catching up and stay In the competition.


LEVEL 3

1. Implementing a fluid system for liquids, (questionable that this should maybe be put in level 2)
2. Implenting a better procedural fracture tool.
3. Implementing a more enhanced particle system working in conjuction with Native fluids and fracture tools.

CONTINOUS DEVELOPMENT PROPAGATING THROUGH EVERY RELEASE..

1. Be aware of what used to make Lightwave so easy and fast to use, this means start re-thinking the current workflow changes on how to acess textured functions.
2. Constant modeling improvements.. which Is not necessary to go in to detail on right here and now..there is a Huge bucket list already on that, but someone needs to start on it.
3. Continue to develop even more awesome procedural textures, Lightwave has today one of the largest libraries for various textures it seems, could be even stronger, but then they need to work something out with DPont.

this list is perfect for the Next release :) no pressure .

erikals
09-29-2018, 12:20 PM
Copy everything Blender has and a unified environment,
except the Ui and the workflow.

and there you go, a shiny new LightWave.

tburbage
09-29-2018, 12:40 PM
I've got a feeling that with the year 2019 fast approaching and with the recent acquisition of Metamorphic we are going to get a 2019 paid upgrade. I really think the free .5 upgrade with new features is a thing of the past for LW, I hope I'm wrong but that's what it feels like.

That unfortunately is my sense as well. Almost all vendors seem to be moving toward the single paid update per year release model. Which is OK if the upgrade price matches up well with the *incremental* value provided. Pixologic seems to have decided the same thing as well, and I don't think we'll see anything like that fantastic ZBrush 4 dot release cycle (8 dot feature releases) happening for them either.

erikals
09-29-2018, 12:44 PM
will there be a LightWave 2019...

if they are focusing on Modeler now, then it might be 2020, or later.

(that is, if they are rewriting Modeler... personally i hope they through it out the window, and rather go Unification)

tburbage
09-29-2018, 12:57 PM
oops -- double post...

RPSchmidt
09-29-2018, 01:29 PM
Many of the things mentioned already are things I would like to see; but before any of those, I just want an overhaul of the GUI that combines several related functions in one panel so that I don't have to have a standard three - four panels open when modeling or working in Layout, and open more panels for every new action.

That would really help speed up working in Lightwave.

DonJMyers
09-29-2018, 02:21 PM
What I want next for LW is more beta testers :)

tburbage
09-29-2018, 02:24 PM
LEVEL 1

1. Complete overhaul of every action, which means almost anything needs a much much much better Undo system,
Lightwave will undoubtly be compared against the cheapest engine out there...such as blender which handles a lot more undo actions within model creation, adding modifiers applying them,
then step back with undo to un apply them, undoing nodes and much much more..Anyone used to blender or many other software will just go mad if there isnīt a better undo system.

2. UI overhaul, we need to change values for several channels at once, such as blender, modo and houdini does..
itīs just too frustrating having to enter 3 channel values each little tweak you need to do.
Color changes should take place in realtime for the UI without the need of closing and restarting the software.

Fully scalable windows, and prefered a way of docking tabs in some kind of adobe way.
Enhancing the nodes, meaning...scrool zoom to a much fuller zoom level than today, fix uggly looks such as jagged none node connections,
make nodes replacable and intersect place a node when placed between other nodes.

3. Modeling tools in modeler And layout, revamp cross over as much as possilbe, if it finally can work only in layout just as well..then fine,
issues will arrive where so many plugins may be broken unless keeping some sort of old modeler or providing one,
as well as focused workflow may be lost unless they can make Layout act as focused as modeler does.

4. Modeling and other task in layout need more of procedural workflow, such as fracture tools etc.
These are in my opinion the BACKBONE LEVEL ONE Required changes.

LEVEL 2

1. Native GPU rendering solution
2. Native sculpting modeler/ layout.
3. Native fluid system fire and smoke(though TFD is sweet in some ways, it is not in tune/ sync with Lightwave in my opinion)
a Native fluid system would have the need to consider the new volumetric system and as such within the developers agenda and
time scheme, they should change the volumetrics within the fluid system at the same time, currently there are issues of workflow slow down, and compability issueswith the 2018 engine and TFD volumetrics.
Particle advection isnīt resolved still, and multiscattering is using a different system than a PBR shading system .
.and also quite slow in comparison to other systems, also not in tune when tweakin shading curves within VPr with issues such as extremely slow and with risc to crash.


I think these steps are not something that would put Lightwave on top, merely just catching up and stay In the competition.


LEVEL 3

1. Implementing a fluid system for liquids, (questionable that this should maybe be put in level 2)
2. Implenting a better procedural fracture tool.
3. Implementing a more enhanced particle system working in conjuction with Native fluids and fracture tools.

CONTINOUS DEVELOPMENT PROPAGATING THROUGH EVERY RELEASE..

1. Be aware of what used to make Lightwave so easy and fast to use, this means start re-thinking the current workflow changes on how to acess textured functions.
2. Constant modeling improvements.. which Is not necessary to go in to detail on right here and now..there is a Huge bucket list already on that, but someone needs to start on it.
3. Continue to develop even more awesome procedural textures, Lightwave has today one of the largest libraries for various textures it seems, could be even stronger, but then they need to work something out with DPont.

this list is perfect for the Next release :) no pressure .

I think your Level 1, #1 would be the most strategic, especially if Layout and Modeler can come to share an Action system design which would make their tools more cross-compatible. A viable Undo system would be one objective, but wouldn't it also be great to be able to repeat the last tool and/or command as a hotkey? (like G and J in Maya)?

Level 1, #2 is my personal favorite pet peeve, and I hope some evolution in panel layout and UI configurability is forthcoming.

Another thing discussed in some other thread which I would definitely take advantage of would be opening up the possibilities for creating our own UI workflows in the sense of letting us define any number of custom menus, or better more advanced interfaces like pie menus. In both Modeler and Layout.

Level 1, #3: Opening up access to and interactive manipulation of all of the vertex map types seems like the first natural progression, and I had been surprised not to see some down payment on that in 2018. I guess Metamorphic, at the plug-in level, will partly fill that gap in.

I'm personally OK with most of Levels 2 and 3 to be considered secondary, and fillable by 3rd party developers, although the particle system is an obvious candidate for either enhancement or partial or full repiacement.

Hard to address Modeler until we get some idea of what they are planning. There's just so much to be done there.

jperk
09-29-2018, 05:31 PM
I heart Lightwave. period.

TheLexx
09-29-2018, 05:33 PM
I heart Lightwave. period.

?? Maybe obvious to others, but I don't understand the comment.

jperk
09-29-2018, 05:54 PM
^Just love it too.

gar26lw
09-29-2018, 06:51 PM
based on dev speed, not much. maybe eagle in a barrel 2019 or something.
Lots of good ideas above but its just too slow a pace of dev.
Undo would be the big one atm. Oh, and an option to use the 2015 renderer in 2018.

A roadmap would be nice.

pixym
09-29-2018, 08:15 PM
Unify Modeler and Layout so you can can snap and objet to any point of another one…

AnimeJoex
09-30-2018, 12:41 AM
I don't really want much.

1. Improved animation system
2. More built-in special effects and dynamics
3. Some type of Unity and Unreal Engine connectivity.

50one
09-30-2018, 01:43 AM
We're getting sucked into these type of threads every 6-8 months preety much typing the same things every year and none of them get implemented or looked into. Jist sayin' ;) (since 2010 at least)

erikals
09-30-2018, 01:55 AM
We're getting sucked into these type of threads every 6-8 months pretty much typing the same things every year and none of them get implemented or looked into. Jist sayin' ;) (since 2010 at least)

yepzi pepzi.

that's why i haven't written a half page of info, like i used to.

https://i.imgur.com/whsgG7I.png

Chris S. (Fez)
09-30-2018, 05:22 AM
I hope Newtek can bring Dpont and RH back into the fold. IFW too for that matter.

I'd like ultra HD monitor support for modeler and layout. Improved performance and streamlined interactive tools for Modeler.

Some sign that native rendering development is alive and well would be welcome.

vncnt
09-30-2018, 05:40 AM
We're getting sucked into these type of threads every 6-8 months
And we tend to fall into the same pitfall every time: offering lists with our own solutions instead of offering lists with our problems.

Sharing our problems has the advantage that the solution can be applied in a creative way.
Many times a lot faster than the suggested solution.

Our new feature that brings the Layout timeline (and its background image) to Modeler is a good example.

ianr
09-30-2018, 06:20 AM
Craig (Rebel Hill) should at least inform this forum & prob Lightwiki too,

what he or where he is at with regards to LW, a lot of money went his way!

Sorry, but in a business support & sales environment & an fevent expert in this app

it's just not good enough, unless he's been Blenderized ?

I think that LW3G should get together with the 3rd Partees in private pow-wow.

Marander
09-30-2018, 06:27 AM
Pointless to compare LW to other applications or wish for features.

The top four 3D applications are 10-15 years ahead in most aspects. The free 3D software and a modeling-focused package are also getting better every year. They have much larger development teams with more experience that move in a faster pace. It pointless to compare a list of features because these packages have a solid architecture, efficient workflow and hundreds of features and functionalities that were refined over the years. There might be similar features in LW but the way they are implemented is very limiting and inefficient.

LW 2018 didn't bring the architectural changes that were promised by the previous management, it's more or less the same old with another render engine and some volumetric stuff. As a consequence of its architecture, 3rd party solutions / plugins and even internal features are isolated and don't work together. Workflow is very inefficient. External data exchange (Alembic, Collada, OpenSubdiv, OpenVDB, FBX, OBJ, AI, AE, Substance, various CAD formats etc.) is very limited or not possible.

LW is good for old-time users that don't want learn a new software, have a vast library of existing scenes, don't have the money for one of the big packages and don't like the free alternative, are happy the way it works and are fund of retro computing in my opinion.

Working Undo and UI fixes would at least make it acceptable to work with.

prometheus
09-30-2018, 06:40 AM
We're getting sucked into these type of threads every 6-8 months preety much typing the same things every year and none of them get implemented or looked into. Jist sayin' ;) (since 2010 at least)

Maybe we should try another way, complete silence then?
one drop on the stone, not much changes, many drops for years...perhaps.

It is also a matter of how things are presented, try other pitches etc.
Though ultimately I think it may be the sales results and amount of users going elsewhere that in the end may be a Wake up call, and when that happens..there will be a lot of lists to start working on.

Yielding respect is also one thing that may indicate that the developers are doing (some ) things right...and that buzz may come from the 3D and movie industry where for instance Lightwave does something special.

hrgiger
09-30-2018, 08:14 AM
We're getting sucked into these type of threads every 6-8 months preety much typing the same things every year and none of them get implemented or looked into. Jist sayin' ;) (since 2010 at least)

Pretty much. And how many people were asking and clamoring for a whole new renderer before 2018 came out? Not any that I recall... Jist sayin.

vncnt
09-30-2018, 10:45 AM
That's because users in general don't know the details of code dependencies, design limitations, priorities, resources, budgets and deadlines.

jwiede
09-30-2018, 12:11 PM
And we tend to fall into the same pitfall every time: offering lists with our own solutions instead of offering lists with our problems.

ROFL. We've tried that too, many times -- do a search on "low-hanging fruit". That approach doesn't yield any better results over time than this approach.

Prometheus hit the nail on the head, probably time to try "complete extended silence". They do it to us, perhaps it is time to return the favor?

Rayek
09-30-2018, 12:31 PM
http://www.upl.co/uploads/therule1538332535.jpg

50one
09-30-2018, 04:21 PM
Me: i quite fancy some spaghetti for dinner tonight
Wife: ignoring my message for 6 hrs then upon arriving at home can see some quinoa with veggies.

Now imagine similar situation for couple of years, yeah am still eating some nice stuff but wife is ignoring my suggestions haha.

jperk
09-30-2018, 08:10 PM
http://www.upl.co/uploads/therule1538332535.jpg

^THIS! Just make cool stuff w/ LW!

gar26lw
10-01-2018, 01:27 AM
ROFL. We've tried that too, many times -- do a search on "low-hanging fruit". That approach doesn't yield any better results over time than this approach.

Prometheus hit the nail on the head, probably time to try "complete extended silence". They do it to us, perhaps it is time to return the favor?

It's happened already . Just look at the forums; they are pretty much dead. A lot (all) of the essential Plug-in devs dead/moved on. Some guy posted a while back that LW 2018 might be the nail in the coffin. I think it might be.

They don't listen to the end user and implement what the end user wants. Been going on since way back.
Compare modo to lw. Think of all the time developing modo and think of all the time developing LW in that same period. How come LW is not way more advanced than before? If you fire up LW 6 and look at the interface, apart from the skin, a lot is pretty much the same. 5.6 even. scene nav is the same, options the same. Nothing has changed i.e. been worked on or improved.

Its a real shame.

hrgiger
10-01-2018, 02:15 AM
Some guy posted a while back that LW 2018 might be the nail in the coffin. I think it might be.


Nah, they've got at least one more nail left in them.

Ztreem
10-01-2018, 02:17 AM
It took them almost three years of rewriting the renderer and soon they have to redo it again as GPU rendering will take over. Then there are all the other things lacking way behind, I have a hard time to see any bright future for LW. They may continue doing small updates and keep the old loyal hobbyist userbase, but they will have a hard time getting new users, especially when they don't talk or listen to their users and do no marketing.

50one
10-01-2018, 02:41 AM
I think the GPU rendering is there already. Just switched off.

Ztreem
10-01-2018, 02:47 AM
I think the GPU rendering is there already. Just switched off.

Ok, just like undo is there but it is switched off... :) ... makes sense!?

erikals
10-01-2018, 02:48 AM
It took them almost three years of rewriting the renderer and soon they have to redo it again as GPU rendering will take over.
no, not as far as i know. most of that was rewriting the geometry engine and the massive impact that had to Layout.

hrgiger
10-01-2018, 02:53 AM
no, not as far as i know. most of that was rewriting the geometry engine and the massive impact that had to Layout.

How massive? What happened to Layout recognizing points, edges and polygons? Third party says its not there in the SDK.

erikals
10-01-2018, 03:16 AM
didn't Chuck answer you on that in an earlier post ?

anyway, yeah, certainly most peculiar if it isn't added.

hrgiger
10-01-2018, 04:11 AM
didn't Chuck answer you on that in an earlier post ?

anyway, yeah, certainly most peculiar if it isn't added.

Benchmarks would be more interesting than answers. Has no one done any? I mean for all the talk of hydra tech we arent looking at chronosculpt type performance.

erikals
10-01-2018, 04:27 AM
true.

SBowie
10-01-2018, 07:36 AM
OK, this is clearly just another pointless vehicle for those who can never allow an opportunity to beat the drums to slip by, or - to stay with a musical analogy - to ...

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