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View Full Version : Don't upgrade to MacOS Mojave yet! Update: Hotfix Released



Morgan Nilsson
09-24-2018, 05:24 PM
Hello all!

Just want to make Mac users aware of problems with Lightwave on the new MacOS version Mojave.

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As you can see on the attached image, all icons in the interface is displayed with a black box. I've tested Substance Painter and Zbrush, they work fine as usual, so it seems to be something with just LW that didn't like something. I've tried reinstalling LW and the same issue still occurs.

For now I recommend people to stay on High Sierra until either Apple or NT releases a fix.

Best regards
//Morgan

CaptainMarlowe
09-24-2018, 09:57 PM
Thanks for letting us know. Right now, except for the dark theme, I don't really see a reason to upgrade immediately. I will check if Mojave doesn't block the purge wrangler trick that allows the use of eGPUs on TB2 before any upgrade, because it will certainly be my next upgrade, in order to take a better advantage of mO2.

Morgan Nilsson
09-25-2018, 03:22 AM
The new UI elements using QT works fine, such as the Shader Editor and Render Properties. So probably is guaranteed to be fixed for next release unless a hot fix is issued (Which seemed to be unlikely to happen according to support) So please, send bug reports if you already updated to Mojave and can't roll back.

Markc
09-25-2018, 11:41 AM
If your using your Mac for production.....Never upgrade the day it's released, wait at least a few weeks/months for the bugs to be ironed out.
Personally I only upgrade when I actually need to for software/hardware support.

Chuck
09-26-2018, 04:16 PM
We have a hot-fix for LightWave® 2018:


LightWave 3D® 2018: Hot-Fix for Mac Mojave OS (https://blog.lightwave3d.com/2018/09/lightwave-3d-2018-hot-fix-for-mac-mojave-os/)

BeeVee
09-26-2018, 04:18 PM
There's a Mojave hotfix in your user account now.

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Morgan Nilsson
09-26-2018, 04:18 PM
Awesome! That was quick!

eggpro
09-27-2018, 09:20 AM
Is there any chance that you can make a hot fix for lightwave 15.3 to fix the icons?

BeeVee
09-27-2018, 10:10 AM
Explain? It's very unlikely though.

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Morgan Nilsson
09-27-2018, 10:21 AM
It's likely the same bug is existing on all Lightwave versions prior to the hot fixed version.

Actually it'd be wrong to call it a bug, call it, Changes in OS derived functions.

eggpro
09-27-2018, 11:21 AM
Since I updated to Mojave the Icons show up as black boxes. Like the problems they fixed in the 2018 version. I was just wondering if they were thinking of fixing it for us that didn't upgrade to the latest software.

Markc
09-27-2018, 11:43 AM
There's a Mojave hotfix in your user account now.

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Is this a whole new install, or does it update the current version, with it being a hotfix?
Presumably this will be included in the next full install......:hey:

raymondtrace
09-27-2018, 12:11 PM
If your using your Mac for production.....Never upgrade the day it's released, wait at least a few weeks/months for the bugs to be ironed out.
Personally I only upgrade when I actually need to for software/hardware support.

Well said. I have not worked on Mac for years so I don't know if this still works well... I always kept cloned systems on external drives so that I could test upgrades carefully.

Apple users need neck braces for the ride. Sympathies to software developers.

Markc
09-27-2018, 12:17 PM
Exactly what I do, I have a different drive to install new versions of the os.
Security updates and fixes usually continue for the three recent versions, so no hurry to update.....:D
Plus I have read some reports of ‘non-retina’ macs with lower rez fonts in Mojave, compared to previous mac os version.

Chuck
09-27-2018, 01:53 PM
Is this a whole new install, or does it update the current version, with it being a hotfix?
Presumably this will be included in the next full install......:hey:

This is one file, that you manually place in the "bin" folder of your LightWave 3D 2018 install folder to replace the version already there.

jwiede
09-27-2018, 02:06 PM
Chuck, can you clarify which revisions of 2018 are compatible with the hotfix?

Chuck
09-27-2018, 03:45 PM
The team only worked with 2018.0.6. No testing was done with any other revisions.

jwiede
09-27-2018, 04:07 PM
The team only worked with 2018.0.6. No testing was done with any other revisions.

Okay, good to know, thanks!

blindsided
11-06-2018, 01:03 PM
Any chance of a fix being applied to LW2015. Even if I beg? Or could the fix come form the OS side at some point?

donlimpio
12-05-2018, 04:17 AM
Hi Chuck or other LW people,

Same question from me: will this be fixed in LW 2015.3? I purchased this software only 2 years ago so I do expect this to be supported a bit longer - and at the moment the software is almost unusable for me, or better said: it's technically usable but slows me down so much due to unrecognisable UI icons that it becomes nearly unusable in reality.

Chuck
12-05-2018, 01:38 PM
Historically, we have in almost all cases maintained compatibility with new OS versions only in the current LightWave release series. Development is not planning to deviate from that in this case.

donlimpio
12-06-2018, 03:50 AM
That's really a pity. Especially since this looks like something that would not be very hard to fix... Even moreso since you already know from the 2018 patch where the problem originates.

Sooo... Thanks a lot NewTek. As a 15 year-long LightWave 3D user, I have never come closer to switching to Cinema...

Added in edit: given the drastic changes in the render engine and corresponding lack of backwards compatibility in rendering result this stance is even less respectful of paying customers. I am now almost forced to work on two machines... VectorWorks and other software requires me to work on Mojave, and LightWave keeps me from working on Mojave, unless I upgrade to a new version that breaks the compatibility in rendering result for a project I've been working on for a couple of years now...

raymondtrace
12-06-2018, 08:48 AM
Two excellent points...
*Newtek knows where the problem exists and how to fix it
*Even with the advent of 2018, many users still depend on 2015's rendering for existing projects

However, moving to another app would still require an expense greater than a LW2018 upgrade and would still require major effort to update or recreate scenes/rigging and objects/surfacing in your projects.

If your software is dual-platform licensed, like Lightwave, your best option may be to install Windows on your Mac. :)

donlimpio
12-06-2018, 09:03 AM
Thanks Raymond, for your reaction. Your thoughts on moving to another app are very true in general, but our studio situation is a bit different. We already use LightWave, Cinema4D and 3DS Max here. Plus Sketchup, Rhino, SolidWorks and VectorWorks for modeling and drawing plans. Rendering is equally diverse with V-Ray, Kray, Octane, Podium, KeyShot and all the proprietary render engines like LightWave's. People come, people go, the old software licenses generally stay, with the exception of MAX (for which we pay the amount of users we have each year as a subscription).

Truth be told: I am the old dog in the house that keeps our 3 LW licenses reasonably alive, in the face of stiff competition from all the 3D packages the young guys introduce here. One of the reasons for that is my loyalty to LightWave for the sake of nostalgia, and the passion and cameraderie of the old bunch of guys. I remember Brad Peebler becoming LightWave evangelist, and when Project Messiah was a hot new thing. You get the idea...

Responses like this from NewTek make me question my loyalty very much, to be honest. Switching package is no big cost for me, financially nor educationally. If I have to start installing two partitions on my Mac to run an old version of the O.S. just because NT doesn't feel like making the effort to tackle a small bug, then not switching almost becomes more of an effort than switching...

Chuck
12-06-2018, 09:46 AM
Things can seem simple that just are not, and going back to a development line that was closed out years ago to retrofix it for an OS released this year is just not as easy as many would like to think. And given the differences in the code base it may not be a simple single-file fix, and may not be quite the same fix.

There also gets to be a question of how many retro versions to fix if you do so much as one. I've talked to folks this past year still using v9.6 and earlier outraged that we don't still do fixes for their version, and saying just the same kind of things about our lack of care for loyal customers when their last actual investment in LightWave ranged from 10 to as much as 20 years ago. No, I am not kidding nor exaggerating.

That noted, the feedback on the topic will be brought to the attention of management for their consideration.

donlimpio
12-06-2018, 09:59 AM
Thanks for passing on the news Chuck. I realise that support needs to fade out over time, but I do also think that LW 2015.3 is special in that it is the last version that people can still use to reproduce legacy scenes, and as such deserves some TLC from NewTek for a while longer.

raymondtrace
12-06-2018, 10:13 AM
...their last actual investment in LightWave...

9.6 users shouldn't expect a fix but couldn't this still be a revenue opportunity for 2015 users? NT could put a bounty on this fix and get concerned Mac users to chip in for the expense.

(I should specify I'm indifferent to the matter as I no longer use Mac...just here to empathize. This old dog started with Motorola 68k and continued through Apple's schizophrenic moves to PPC and Intel. Each iteration of Apple products costs developers and consumers. You've got to know you've signed up for that when you choose Mac.)

donlimpio
12-07-2018, 02:03 AM
I for one don't even mind paying for this within reasonable boundaries, say a hundred dollar per year of legacy support, or per patch once every while. In a year or two, if the dominance of other packages here doesn't become too big, I'd upgrade, but for the moment the switch in render engine is more of a hassle than a feature. Hence the need to keep on working with 2015.3, but with system that need to upgrade to Mojave.

Iaian7
12-21-2018, 10:57 AM
I gotta chime in.

I get that development was closed out on 2015, and normally, that would be fine (I've never expected older versions of Lightwave to be updated!). But with the updated render engine not being able to render old scenes...this effectively kills Lightwave, right? I've been using Lightwave since 2004, and the flexible node system (from 9.6 through 2015) has been critical to so much non-photoreal and stylised artwork, none of which appears to translate to 2018.

If Lightwave is to ever be a solution moving forward, I need to be able to trust that client projects aren't going to be inaccessible in under than a year. Which is what we're faced with here. Of course I haven't upgraded to Mojave - no pro user should without ensuring program compatibility...

...but if NewTek is honestly killing off support for projects created just a year ago? That is an untenable situation, and not a platform that should ever be trusted or supported. Please don't screw over your users like this.

Morgan Nilsson
12-21-2018, 03:38 PM
As a general rule, don't ever upgrade software or anything else that may cause problems in the middle of a production. Don't change what isn't broken so to speak.

As for your second issue, what can't you reproduce in 2018 that was possible in 2015 in regards to non-photoreal and stylised artwork?

Also, 2015 has been around for quite some time before 2018 got released, as the name implies, so I do not really understand what you mean with killing off support for projects created a year ago.

jwiede
12-21-2018, 07:44 PM
If Lightwave is to ever be a solution moving forward, I need to be able to trust that client projects aren't going to be inaccessible in under than a year. Which is what we're faced with here.

LW customers did not choose that the only way to retain continued access to prior versions' content be wholly reliant on LW2015.3 remaining operational. Newtek had ample opportunities to provide more comprehensive migration options, or at least provide customers with a suitably-advanced timeline and detailing of breadth and depth of coming content incompatibilities with LW2018, and so forth, but eschewed all such options. Those decisions (foreseeably) led to the current situation.

Newtek needs to fix the prior version content incompatibility situation LW2018 created. Whether/how they do so is up to them.

jwiede
12-21-2018, 07:58 PM
Also, 2015 has been around for quite some time before 2018 got released, as the name implies, so I do not really understand what you mean with killing off support for projects created a year ago.

Up until just under a year ago, LW2015 was the only released LW available for content creation -- LW2018 released 1jan2018. Projects' surfacing created a year ago (for LW2015) have minimal ability to be migrated to LW2018. What isn't clear about that?

Morgan Nilsson
12-23-2018, 05:55 PM
Up until just under a year ago, LW2015 was the only released LW available for content creation -- LW2018 released 1jan2018. Projects' surfacing created a year ago (for LW2015) have minimal ability to be migrated to LW2018. What isn't clear about that?

Yes, but users still can use LW2015 until they can begin using 2018 if they so wish for new projects.

2015 isn't suddenly unavailable... Yes I am aware that there is the interface bug when using LW2015 with the latest MacOS update, but the same thing applies there. As I said in my previous post, it's never a good idea to change or update to newer Software or OS versions unless you really need to due to for example a bug or something causing the project to be brought to a halt, which most likely isn't the case here.

robertn2k
12-23-2018, 11:31 PM
Isn't the larger issue to hold off on Mojave, Apple's decision to drop support for OpenGL/CL? I was under the impression that LW and other apps that are not supporting Metal would take serious performance hits. We have avoided upgrading to Mojave for that very reason. I'm not sure how long we will be able to hold off upgrading the OS. We might actually move back to Windows over this issue.

donlimpio
12-24-2018, 01:20 AM
Regarding not upgrading as a pro user: while I understand the reasoning behind this, the reality can be very different depending on your software environment. Our two main software suites actually require us to always update to the latest version of both OS and the software itself. In spite of us paying a hefty yearly fee for support, the first question when contacting tech support is "are you running a fully updated environment?".

So in short: there are very definitely professsional environments where upgrading is the norm and only option.

Markc
12-24-2018, 03:35 AM
Isn't the larger issue to hold off on Mojave, Apple's decision to drop support for OpenGL/CL? I was under the impression that LW and other apps that are not supporting Metal would take serious performance hits. We have avoided upgrading to Mojave for that very reason. I'm not sure how long we will be able to hold off upgrading the OS. We might actually move back to Windows over this issue.

Really......:stumped:
What's your hurry to upgrade the OS?
Seems a bit extreme to jump ship.
Security updates are issued for the 3 recent versions of Mac OS.
If Lightwave is working on HS stick with that.

donlimpio
12-24-2018, 03:47 AM
@Markc,

"What's your hurry to upgrade the OS?" - I answered that question in the post right before yours. Not everyone has the choice. By the way, this is not only because of rare unicorn software: try Adobe Creative Cloud tech support. If they don't find a fix for your issue quickly, they will ask you to upgrade your OS and Creative Cloud suite. And if you don't, they don't guarantee continued support. Completely unrelated to LightWave but pretty striking: Adobe also does not offer support for file issues if you save on a network share.

I don't know if you use other software-as-a-service, but when your run software like VectorWorks or SolidWorks your options to not upgrade are severely, really severely limited. It's a bit better these days but 5 years ago we didn't even get to choose our own graphics cards if we wanted support.

So there you have a very good reason to upgrade the OS. If LightWave is your workhorse then LightWave drives your upgrade policy. If LightWave is only the 4th or 5th most important software you run, other packages drive the upgrade policy, and LW needs to follow.

Markc
12-24-2018, 04:08 AM
Apologies....I thought you where referring to LW upgrades..:thumbsup:
I don’t have your headaches fortunately, I don’t touch ‘rental’ software :)

donlimpio
12-24-2018, 04:16 AM
No worries. I share your point of view regarding rental software, by the way. As far as my experience goes, software-as-a-service has been a rip-off making companies rich without any benefits in place for the customer. Unfortunately many software companies don't give you a lot of choice, at a certain point in time...

wort
12-27-2018, 11:56 AM
So the latest version is 2018.07 but the fix is for 2018.06 and we have .07 installed on all of our lab computers. A little confused why the latest version of LW was not used.

Morgan Nilsson
12-27-2018, 09:48 PM
So the latest version is 2018.07 but the fix is for 2018.06 and we have .07 installed on all of our lab computers. A little confused why the latest version of LW was not used.

It was an urgent bug that had to be fixed, thusly it got released as a hotfix to the then current latest release... The hotfix is included in the .07 release.

romancast
12-28-2018, 01:41 PM
I was thinking about updating shortly until I read this thread

JorgeATL
01-03-2019, 10:23 PM
This is one file, that you manually place in the "bin" folder of your LightWave 3D 2018 install folder to replace the version already there.

Will the Lightwave 2018 Mojave fix work on 2015.3?

Morgan Nilsson
01-03-2019, 11:50 PM
I was thinking about updating shortly until I read this thread

How so? If anything this thread is why you should update due to the fixed bug.

donlimpio
01-04-2019, 01:29 AM
@Morgan: That depends on how your interpret "upgrading" (as the OS or the LW upgrade).

If you run LW 2015.3, you should not upgrade your OS to Mojave, because then you're in trouble.
If you run LW 2018 on Mojave, you should upgrade, because then you get the latest fix which works.

Morgan Nilsson
01-04-2019, 02:20 AM
@Morgan: That depends on how your interpret "upgrading" (as the OS or the LW upgrade).

If you run LW 2015.3, you should not upgrade your OS to Mojave, because then you're in trouble.
If you run LW 2018 on Mojave, you should upgrade, because then you get the latest fix which works.

Ah yes, I wrongly assumed he was talking about LW. My bad.

Chuck
01-04-2019, 04:44 PM
Will the Lightwave 2018 Mojave fix work on 2015.3?

The fix is specific to 2018.

sebrady
01-18-2019, 04:48 AM
My MacBook Pro died March 2018. In Nov 2018 my new one updated to Mohave WITHOUT MY PERMISSION. Yesterday I finally reinstalled my last version of Lightwave which was 2015.3. Well I have that Mohave thing going on where icons are black.

So........do I get 2018.3 or, wait till the next version comes out. I love Lightwave, its an addiction and hobby but I make no money with it so updates at $300 a pop need to happen every 4 updates or even longer. If I get 2018.3, do I get any forth coming updates, or do I wait for maybe a 2019 update.

Thanks for helping me think through this.


We have a hot-fix for LightWave® 2018:


LightWave 3D® 2018: Hot-Fix for Mac Mojave OS (https://blog.lightwave3d.com/2018/09/lightwave-3d-2018-hot-fix-for-mac-mojave-os/)

hypersuperduper
01-19-2019, 05:46 AM
My MacBook Pro died March 2018. In Nov 2018 my new one updated to Mohave WITHOUT MY PERMISSION. Yesterday I finally reinstalled my last version of Lightwave which was 2015.3. Well I have that Mohave thing going on where icons are black.

So........do I get 2018.3 or, wait till the next version comes out. I love Lightwave, its an addiction and hobby but I make no money with it so updates at $300 a pop need to happen every 4 updates or even longer. If I get 2018.3, do I get any forth coming updates, or do I wait for maybe a 2019 update.

Thanks for helping me think through this.

If history is any indication you may have to wait quite a while for lw2019. Although that may be different this time around. So if you want to be able to use lw this year on your new computer i think you may have to just bite the bullet and get 2018. It is a pretty substantial update though, so you aren’t just looking at shelling out $300 to get pretty much the same thing you had before your last computer crapped out. You are getting a lot of new stuff to play with and learn.

One would of course hope that if I you buy 2018 only to have lw2019 come out a couple of months later that Newtek would do you a solid and upgrade your license for free.

sebrady
01-19-2019, 09:39 AM
LW support replied to me TODAY, Saturday, 19th.

"LightWave was last updated to 2018.0.7 (which is Mojave compliant) on 10/31/2018."

So I asked them if I buy 2018.0.7 and 2019 comes out, do I get a free upgrade, is there a grace period........waiting for response. Maybe today. I have to use reading glasses because I'm 58 and the tiny font on the screen is too small. Is there a way to make the interface font bigger? So many boxes to click on.

Markc
01-19-2019, 11:13 AM
Waiting periods between versions of LW are open ended (as you probably know).
There is no gaurantee a new version will be out this year and tbh I can't see you getting a free upgrade.

Do you not have a backup of your previous system (presumably HS), you could restore?
Alternatively you could boot HS from an external drive with LW 2015, this would be cheaper than the upgrade.

The other thing to consider, the shading/rendering system is completely different in 2018.
Any scenes you have built will probably need to be updated/tweaked if you open them in 2018.

sebrady
01-19-2019, 05:04 PM
Markc, thanks for the great suggestion to boot from a MacOS HS drive. But I might as well get 2018.0.7 and learn all the new stuff. I usually go 4 years before I upgrade. I have a ton of projects so anything I open will need to updated to the new way of working. Might as well get started. I tried to learn Blender last year. Lots of cool tuts on YouTube. Wish LW could do some of those things but I still love LW.