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View Full Version : Does Syflex Need Cage Deformer?



jimiclaybrooks
09-07-2018, 06:18 PM
I just bought syflex only to find out, according to Ryan Roye, I should get cage deformer to make the most of the plugin. Well..... I spent $200.00 for the plugin, and another $69 for his video about how to use syflex, (which I will admit, was pretty good). But now I have to spend another $180 for the cage deformer?? My question is, can I make the most out of syflex without having to buy cage deformer?? Especially since I haven't really learned how to use syflex yet. Just asking...
I haven't found too many tutorials on syflex out there, so I can't say whether or not there's a better tool or technique that does what cage deformer does.

erikals
09-07-2018, 06:36 PM
Syflex doesn't need Cage Deformer,
it can be helpful for post-adjusting the simulation, other than that, not needed.

that said, i do recommend Cage Deformer for general purposes.

jimiclaybrooks
09-08-2018, 04:31 AM
Well, according to the video that I've been watching, Roye says it really helps, because of the parenting issues that syflex has. That's why I'm posting this question. OTOH, coming from you, I'll take that to mean it is worth the investment. I'll have to bite the bulllet and spend the money that I don't have (Heh Heh). Thanks

OFF
09-08-2018, 04:53 AM
I have long wanted to buy Syflex, since August, there was a definite need for this. As I understand it (and I did not know this before) - Syflex does not work with undeformed coordinates of objects. That is, so that Syflex calculated the displacement of the positions of the vertices of the object - the object must be subjected to deformations. In this regard, there is no need to purchase additional tools (although, as Erik said it is a very useful tool) - it is enough to use Ryan's method - to control the transformation of the object through the Nile modifier (from Syflex tools). Syflex will regard this as a deformation of the object.

ianr
09-08-2018, 07:11 AM
Well, according to the video that I've been watching, Roye says it really helps, because of the parenting issues that syflex has. That's why I'm posting this question. OTOH, coming from you, I'll take that to mean it is worth the investment. I'll have to bite the bulllet and spend the money that I don't have (Heh Heh). Thanks


Jimi, May i suggest you can tweak mesh /points in LW Chronoscuplt(if you have it)

The Pins in Marvelous Designer are very good, which has grown in leaps & bounds.

It worth checking out the $50 per month try see if you utilize it for your project

they even have a clothing mesh store you can buy from too.

erikals
09-08-2018, 10:37 AM
in regards to Cage Deformer,

if one creates cartoon animations in LightWave i'd say Cage Deformer is a must-have

it should be native, but alas.

jimiclaybrooks
09-08-2018, 11:16 AM
Thanks mates. I'll have to look into the "Nile modifier" as I haven't the slightest idea what that is. I've only had Syflex for two days, and the first day was skpent just looking for tuts and docs that would help me understand the setup after I ruined a couple of scenes. (I can laugh at myself now) I don't have chronosculpt, which I understand is $400.00?? That's way worse than cage deformer. Since I don't really do character animations, I don't know if I would need for cage deformer. But I do have a question. 142785
I thought I had the dress ruffle nailed to the character, but as you can see here, at frame one the ruffle moves. Not sure what I did wrong, but here's what I did do.
1st, I moved a null into place and did a "follower" motion modifier on it to follow the "chest 2" bone. The null follows the bone ok, so the null is not parented to anything. Then I "Nailed" the cloth ruffle to the null with a weightmap, which I thought would hold the ruffle in place, but obviously it doesn't. This is why I thought I'd need cage deformer. What have I done wrong? What did I miss?? thanks
BTW, the skirt on this model was done with LW cloth, but the ruffle simply would not cooperate, so I'd wanted syflex for so long, I just broke down and bought it, and I'm glad I did. I just have to get used to using it instead of native LW cloth, which is really much easier to setup. Yeah, its slow as all get out, but it has served me well these last 10 years.

jimiclaybrooks
09-08-2018, 11:52 AM
Thought I'd post this also. This is what happens when I load the sample scene file of shirt 2 that came with the plugin. I can see how its set up, but it doesn't seem to be working either. Strange:confused::confused:142786

jwiede
09-08-2018, 04:19 PM
Thanks mates. I'll have to look into the "Nile modifier" as I haven't the slightest idea what that is.

I think he's referring to the Nail modifier not the "Nile" modifier. The Nail modifier pins specific vertices/objects in place, in a controllable manner, where you can then reset the initial state to adjust for offset coordinates. However, the Syflex folks also made a LW fix not so long ago that deals with having the object modeled "not at origin" as well, just requires an initial adjustment to the "start state" of the simulation, and is discussed in the examples/documentation.

Hopefully Gerard from Syflex will stop by and better explain how to deal with these types of questions. The "offset-modeled" fix post-dates Ryan's videos, and I don't believe Ryan updated them since then -- if you're referring to the same restriction I think you are (it isn't entirely clear from your description precisely what problem you're having).

You should definitely play with the examples and get familiar with what current Syflex can do by itself, before assuming that it won't let you do what you need and requires additional software. There have been other improvements since Ryan's video came out (f.e. "zipping"/tearing support) as well, so depending on your precise needs there may be other ways to solve the problem you're facing.

jwiede
09-08-2018, 04:22 PM
Thought I'd post this also. This is what happens when I load the sample scene file of shirt 2 that came with the plugin. I can see how its set up, but it doesn't seem to be working either. Strange:confused::confused:142786

Can you explain your precise workflow, and what's leading you to believe it "isn't working"? As in, what are you expecting it to do, that it isn't doing?

Syflex has a significantly different workflow than Bullet, for example, esp. in terms of how objects interact, and how the simulation gets run (f.e. simulation happens inline, not explicitly).

Tim Parsons
09-08-2018, 05:56 PM
I don't have chronosculpt, which I understand is $400.00?? That's way worse than cage deformer.

Chronosculpt is free to everyone that purchased 2015. :)

ianr
09-09-2018, 06:28 AM
in regards to Cage Deformer,

if one creates cartoon animations in LightWave i'd say Cage Deformer is a must-have

it should be native, but alas.



Since Alias Lattice we have purred about having inside & native, Erikals & I brought

up the case every 2 years. That is sad all that great William Hanna style animation

stuff ( Tom & Jerry creator) we didn't get to see in LightWave stuff in the past.

I'm sure we had had cage deformers back then , then William Vaughan's content

would have rocked with it. But it's not worth crying over spilt milk? Times change.

erikals
09-09-2018, 04:42 PM
one day...  :)

raymondtrace
09-10-2018, 09:49 AM
... I don't have chronosculpt, which I understand is $400.00?? That's way worse than cage deformer.

One of your previous posts suggest you have LW2015. Check your account page ( https://www.lightwave3d.com/account/ ) to see if Chronosculpt is already available to you.

Alternatively, if you're using LW2018 and already bought Metamorphic, you may have everything you need. Metamorphic was not available when Ryan made his training video. It would probably be the ideal tool now. Maybe Metamorphic will be native soon. wink. wink.

jimiclaybrooks
09-11-2018, 09:38 AM
" The Nail modifier pins specific vertices/objects in place, in a controllable manner, where you can then reset the initial state to adjust for offset coordinates."
jwiede:Sorry about the typo. Yes I meant "nail" and not "nile". I hear you on this, but I'm just not clear about how it works. What I thought they were saying is, copy the rest pose of the cloth object from frame zero to frame one. If that's not it, then I don't get it. What I do understand is that syflex wants the hierarchy of objects in a certain order, such that the object being deformed can't be parented to anything. That becomes something of a problem when you want a man's pants to stay up, but you can't parent the pants to the body. That's my problem with the "nail" issue. What I've seen are examples where the cloth is done without any constraints. The only video I've seen where the nail feature has been used is Ryan's video, and he uses cage deformer, which, he says, is the best way to get the desired results with the cape example he shows.
raymondtrace:
Thanks for the heads up, I really like chronosculpt and look forward to using it. I'll keep working at this after we get more settled in. Just moved to a new residence, so that has to take priority for now. Thanks everyone for your help. Much appreciated.

jimiclaybrooks
09-11-2018, 09:44 AM
Tim:
After you download the installer for Chronosculpt, who do I contact about the permanent license for it? There's no mention of this on my account page.

raymondtrace
09-12-2018, 09:03 AM
You might contact customer service if you don't see a license on your account page. However, it may not be offered to all 2015 users.

The bundle/gift was promoted here ( http://static.lightwave3d.com/marketing/mailers/11162015/lightwave-production-suite/lw_2015_owner_final.html ) in 2015 but it is possible that the gift was not extended to later purchases of LW2015.