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WilliamVaughan
12-30-2003, 07:45 AM
LightWave Eight Demo Videos

Here is the current list of videos showing off some of the exciting new features in LightWave Eight. More are on the way so stay tuned.

Part 1:

Cloth FX- Cloth Dynamics in action: 32.5 MB
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/ClothFx_001.avi

Hard FX- Hard Body Dynamics in Action: 62 MB
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/HardFx_001.avi

Soft FX- Soft Body Dynamics in action: 42.6 MB
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/SoftFx_001.avi

IK Boost Tool- Basic example of rigging a character with new tools:36.8 MB
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/IKB_001.avi


Part 2:

Expression Editor: 8 MB
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/expressioneditor.avi

Hard Link/ Cloth FX: 22.9 MB
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/hardlink002.avi


Part 3:

Modeler Edge Tools: 27.6
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/Modeler_edges.avi

Modeler Layers Tools: 8.17 MB
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/Modeler_layers.avi

Ik Boost Tool part 2: 18.5
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/IKboost_octo.avi

Modeler Bridge Tool and a sneak peek at In-line Help System: 43 MB
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/Bridge_Help.avi


***Quicktime Versions can be found here:
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/mov/





***Attention***
You will need the codec below to view these videos. When installing a new Codec it is sometimes necessary to restart your machine.

PC Codec:
http://www.techsmith.com/products/studio/codec.asp

Mac Codec:
http://www.techsmith.com/download/ensharpendecoder.asp


Mac Codec( Direct Link):
http://wcarchive.cdrom.com/pub/bws/bws_48/ensharpen_macosx.dmg

RiGLEY
12-30-2003, 07:48 AM
sweeeeeet :)
Thanks NewTek !

samartin
12-30-2003, 07:50 AM
nice one,

looking forward to checking these puppies out, thanx again...

Kvaalen
12-30-2003, 07:53 AM
Really cool Proton! Thanks a lot!

Netvudu
12-30-2003, 07:57 AM
way to go!
A few more and this update´s addendum will be history :D

liquidik
12-30-2003, 08:02 AM
Will it be possible to use the hard link to drive a high poly object (ex: a sphere) with a low poly obj (ex: a cube), like a "wrap" deformer ???

:cool:

little5points
12-30-2003, 08:12 AM
I just finished a project where I was constantly moving objects to new layers and rearranging layers, so that new layer feature looks like heaven to me.

fortress
12-30-2003, 08:13 AM
thanks for all the vidoes proton

happy holidays
btw i like your new location
hehe

samartin
12-30-2003, 08:29 AM
For me the Bridge tool is cool and the IK boost was nice to see in action on a complex bone setup, that was well sweet IMO...

Bit disappointed by the edge tool as I would imagine most people have that functionality at the moment and having to come out of sub-D mode to use it. But hey looks like LW8 is deffo a worthy upgrade to 7.5...

WilliamVaughan
12-30-2003, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by samartin
For me the Bridge tool is cool and the IK boost was nice to see in action on a complex bone setup, that was well sweet IMO...

Bit disappointed by the edge tool as I would imagine most people have that functionality at the moment and having to come out of sub-D mode to use it. But hey looks like LW8 is deffo a worthy upgrade to 7.5...


You don't have to come out of Subpatches to use the dge tools....I did becuse if you start adding edges to a SubD object it will have holes due to Ngons.....Plus it is easy to see what is going on in Polyganal mode IMHO...I will post pic.

samartin
12-30-2003, 08:39 AM
The only trouble with that is when you come out of sub-D mode some poy's are an absolute nightmare to work with, as a result of modelling in sub-D mode, especially when trying to create ultra lo-res meshes...

It is cool that it is totally integrated now instead of resorting to setting up extra plug-ins to make it work, thanx for all your efforts BTW in showing what LW8 has in store :thumbsup:

robinson
12-30-2003, 08:59 AM
WOW, great for all the videos William, just downloaded all of them. :D

Some great new things in LW8 can't wait to play with it.
I just hope these “new” (edge tool isn’t really new) features are well implemented in Lightwave 8 and you added some features to these tools.

Is there more hidden behind the help button or is it just this script I found on this forum ?
Sorry don't know who made it but here it is for the 7.5 users.


--------

// change this variable to match your browser
//exe file path, you need the double slash too

Browser = "X:\\Programs\\Internet Explorer\\iexplore.exe" ;

// change this variable to the selected file you
// want to open in it, make sure to leave that
// space at the beginning

page = " X:\\Programs\\helpfile\\Online_Docs\\help\\index.h tml";


generic
{
spawn(Browser+page) ;
}

-------------
you can also link to the pdf help that way or to any other program you wanna start from Lightwave directly.


// change this variable to match your browser
//exe file path, you need the double slash too

Browser = "X:\\Programs\\Acrobat.exe" ;

// change this variable to the selected file you
// want to open in it, make sure to leave that
// space at the beginning

page = " X:\\Programs\\lw7manual.pdf";

generic
{
spawn(Browser+page) ;
}

Chazz
12-30-2003, 09:04 AM
The edge tools look really nice. Being able to select edge loops is really great. The toolbar looks really cleaned up....did you guys reorganize?

Question about the IK Boost tool....does it provide the same fuctionality that bone handles do in other programs?

TSpyrison
12-30-2003, 09:10 AM
Ive got a question..

The new layer tool stuff..
It would be cool, if it could collapse the layers.. but at the same time, group each layer as a "part'. So that later, you could "expand" to layers..

can it do that?

That way, you wouldn't have to save a collapsed version for a quick render...

or am I babbling again?

:cool:

jjburton
12-30-2003, 09:36 AM
Proton-

With the IK boost tool, can you select any "handle" along the chaing and animate it at will? Like another type of spline IK? Also, is the "pinning" action animateable, so that you can pin something from frames 35-88, then un lock it?

Thanks. Things are looking good.

trick
12-30-2003, 09:44 AM
Yeah, new features. Nice !!!

Do the new Layer tools respect layer names ?

Rich
12-30-2003, 09:57 AM
The bridge tool looks excellent! It looks like it's gonna be a great time saver. I can't wait for 8!

wgreenlee1
12-30-2003, 10:01 AM
those modeling updates were already availble for free were they not?edges and bridge
and the help docs are cool but if you could open them into a window you could run half ur screen with a browser(and not just the help docs but a real IE explorer)so you could follow a tutorial or browse the web right in the interface....wouldnt that be cool?
plus a proxy lowrez cage would be great for working on while you could watch the sub-patch model update at the same time

are there more updates for modeler?
i know DI power tools(which used to be free) are in there but is there anything else thats new?

Cman
12-30-2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by wgreenlee1
are there more updates for modeler?
i know DI power tools(which used to be free) are in there but is there anything else thats new?

I believe the layer tool was also a free plugin. (layerUtilities v1.0) (http://www.dtium.com/software/)
Your real question is, is there anything developed by NT that's new to Modeler? :(

But then, maybe there's so much developed by the users that now it's essentially impossible for NT to develop something that someone else hasn't already done.

Kvaalen
12-30-2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by wgreenlee1
plus a proxy lowrez cage would be great for working on while you could watch the sub-patch model update at the same time


I've thought about this before and I really think it would be a great idea! I'm totaly for this!

wgreenlee1
12-30-2003, 10:20 AM
But then, maybe there's so much developed by the users that now it's essentially impossible for NT to develop something that someone else hasn't already done.

i know and i have most of these already burn on disk....
i might be missing something here tho....

maybe they're saving the good stuff for the actual release....one can hope i guess

wgreenlee1
12-30-2003, 10:28 AM
oh and i hope they fixed the symetry because i would and still get lost in mirroring
actually a "instancing" would be really great on any axis or even objects that could be included in the instance

and i see from the video navigating the work area is still going to be best from the icon bar above each panel

maybe theres a load of surprises for the modeler side of things yet to come

does anyone one know if they are going to a node based surfaceing editor?
there was a free one out here not too long ago,that'd be cool

WilliamVaughan
12-30-2003, 10:33 AM
Wgreenlee1- Are you atking advantage of our Feature Request Area of the forums? And don't forget you can always email the dev team:

[email protected]


That insures that your requests don't get lost in this area of our forums. :)


Samartin- Attached is an image of using the add edge tool with SubD...as mentioned it's not optimal adding edges to Subpatches...I add edges in polyganal mode then clean them up and then subD

Netvudu
12-30-2003, 10:38 AM
I personally doubt any nodal-based surface editor is going to make it into 8. It would have been announced already.
I must say a node surface editor would be something very interesting, not because it´s better than the current layer system (it isn´t in many occasions) but it could be extremely useful in some situations. Specially large scenes where nodes systems usually prove to keep things under control and do save time.

Now, I think it´s mandatory to KEEP the layer system even in case a node system is used. Anyone for an hybrid surface editor with both nodes and layers? voila! best surfacing package on the market.
I think a layer system still proves to be useful and intuitive in many situations and could work hand in hand with nodes.

WilliamVaughan
12-30-2003, 10:50 AM
No node based surface editor is planned for LightWave Eight....but I think I saw one on flay that looked cool.

wgreenlee1
12-30-2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Netvudu


Anyone for an hybrid surface editor with both nodes and layers? voila! best surfacing package on the market.


yeah....lol,i was just thinking that

well with nodes that you can just right click on and insert to differant channels(color,bump,luminance,etc) it saves time

with layers (or the way lightwaves layers are now)you have to copy and paste even the most simple of operations by going to each channel and opening up the panel then closeing the panel then go to another channel and open it up and and paste and then on and on....with nodes you right click and select the output of which texturte or material and then point it to the main material node and choose the channel you wish to drop it in to
so if you wish for the same texture to be used in all the main channels you dont have to reload it into each channel just middle mouse drag into the surface editor into its respective channel you wish to affect

lights are the same
say you wish to connect only the diffuse to a certian light
open up ur graph network for the material,drag ur light node into the work area,right click the light and choose output,drop it onto a diffuse channel with input options

artstorm
12-30-2003, 10:53 AM
Hey Proton,

Thanks for todays new batch of 8 videos. Things are looking great so far! :)

Chris S. (Fez)
12-30-2003, 11:35 AM
I am impressed with your presentation skills Proton. Great job on the vids. I am really unimpressed and underwhelmed with the modeler features. It seems not only did Newtek incorporate free, already available tools (powertools, edge bevel, layer utilities, edge tools, bridge), but they did not feel the need to improve on them (are they improved at all?).

Please show us something NEW! Features EVERYBODY will use and have been screaming for for years. If you don't mind I'll make some suggestions.

In Modeler:
Texture wireframe?
Full shaded reference layers?

In Layout:

Has the skinning workflow been improved?
How about some "smartskin"? At siggraph we were shown animatable points in Layout... great! Does this mean we can finally easily finesse character deformations? And I don't mean frame by frame finessing!

We appreciate all the time and effort Proton. You have gone way beyond the call of duty. Enjoy your holiday! I hope you are happily unplugged for the remainder of your vacation and don't even read this message till at least the fifth.

ufo3d
12-30-2003, 11:41 AM
when can we know the features list?

-EsHrA-
12-30-2003, 11:41 AM
nice videoz :)

about this node based material creator...
we're working on crafter, its open-source and currently outputs only for YafRay & 3dVirtuaLight. maybe....just maybe in a far away future we'll work it for lw, but as i said its open-source so maybe some genius could integrate it :) ahwell...just to inform you guys.

http://www.funnyfarm.tv/thelab/index.htm


Cheers,

mlon

Zach
12-30-2003, 11:55 AM
I can't wait to start playing with those new bones, Proton, you make me jealous! I want to start making seaweed animations, and the new bone system looks fantastico!

Hey wgreenlee1,
You can already link a light to the diffuse channel of a surface by using a gradient and setting it to use the light incidence angle. Unfortunately, I think you can only link it to one light at the moment. My favorite are the Weight and Bump map usage for gradients! They just make things so much better! The gradients in LightWave are great, but they could definately be enhanced(like attaching surfaces to keys, and assigning gradients to a particular bump map, instead of all of them, as well as the bumps intensity). Gradients are about the closest thing you can get to the oren-nayer look without searching out plugins on the web.

Speaking of searching out plugins on the web. I'm definately tired of reinstalling the plugins that don't come with LightWave, and I'm definately tired of looking for the ones I've lost! The implementation of the "Wrinkle-style" version of the bevel edge tool is defeniately a plus. And drawing edges on a polygon like the "split polygon" tool in maya is definately a welcome addition. It actually looks like a better implementation too! And the integration of Ikeda's Power Tools is a god send! I love those tools so much, and now they are right there in modeler without me having to reinstall them everytime I get a better computer or after having to reformat is a great help!

Nodal Surfacing would be great though, but in Appz like Maya, you almost have to be a technofile to figure out where to put the different inputs and outputs. The tech jargon just gets overwhelming to simple, lazy minded users like myself. :p

wgreenlee1
12-30-2003, 12:47 PM
well the way i do it with all my apps now is back up the whole thing w/out any objects or scenes and burn them to disk
that way i have everything on backup as it is on the puter
reformattting?no problem....just grab the app install rewrite my CD right over it letting it install anything the real apps dont have

Tesselator
12-30-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by -EsHrA-
nice videoz :)
(...but as i said its open-source so maybe some genius could integrate it :)...



No need to. :D Muahahahaha.... I know a secret. :D


--------------------------------------------

On the subject of integrating previously free, or
shareware plugins into a LW release I think it's awesome!
Besides the fact that I don't know of a single commercial
FX application vender that doesn't participate in this practice
there are some real advantages to it! Just some being:

Developed by artists for artists.
Extensive pre-market testing.
Extensive after-market testing.
Developed out of actual need.
Extensive Revision History.
Creating Opertunity for the little guy.
Diversity in function.
Diversity in form.

- This goes on and on.

Not to mention that while maybe most of us here have seen
or heard of the plug the vast majority of LW users have not.
Jeeze even plugins I thought everyone knew about like G2
DarkTree, or IKBlender are virtually unknown outside these
discussion circles. And we're only about 10% or 15% of the
userbase. I assisted a booth once at a LightWave specific
expo here in Japan (where I live) durring the 5.6 release
when tools like Gaffer and Polk had already long ago peaked.
Yet of the 1,800+ users that visited the booth those hours less
than 100 people had even heard of those tools and over
80% of them were licenced LW users. I do degress...

Additionaly I can see absolutly NO disatvantage in employing
this system of development! It has all the advantages of
OpenSource and commercail development with none of the
disadvantages associated with flakey support that often
accompanies OpenSource. LOL It does however have the
disadvantage that goes along with commerciial development.
$ Money $ :D

mouse_art
12-30-2003, 01:07 PM
No node based surface editor is planned for LightWave Eight....but I think I saw one on flay that looked cool.

I think it's Sabre!? :)


http://kaniserver.homeip.net/%7Ekonoha/psycho/ (at the bottom of the page

Tesselator
12-30-2003, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by mouse_art
I think it's Sabre!? :)


http://kaniserver.homeip.net/%7Ekonoha/psycho/ (at the bottom of the page

Yup, I bet that's what he's talking about. :D

Netvudu
12-30-2003, 01:28 PM
I totally agree with Tesselator. You can´t blame Newtek for doing the exact same thing that other 3d companies do.

Just go around any Maya board and check how they´re asking for a serious implementaton of Mental Ray for version 6...which means they want to pay the next update for something they supposedly had in version 5...

art
12-30-2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Tesselator

Not to mention that while maybe most of us here have seen
or heard of the plug the vast majority of LW users have not.
Jeeze even plugins I thought everyone knew about...

...Additionaly I can see absolutly NO disatvantage in employing
this system of development! It has all the advantages of
OpenSource and commercail development with none of the
disadvantages associated with flakey support that often
accompanies OpenSource.

I agree with Tesselator. I have been living under a hure rock (yes, thats right!), and I had no idea that a tool such as DI powertools ever existed. The first time I heard about this plugin was when people started criticising NT for including it as a feature in LW[8]. Im probably not the only one who never heard about this plugin before. The only problem I have with this is that I cannot get the plugin right now... and use it with my current version of lw. But I will upgrade eventually.

So, I have no problem with seeing free plugins integrated in LW. Tesselator have already pointed out some good advantages of such integration. Im fairly confident that NT did slightly more work on the free plugins than simply copying the .p files into the subfolder and creating a buttion that links to them

I guess those demo videos from modeler are more exciting for me than for those who already have been using the free plugin for a while :)

Chris S. (Fez)
12-30-2003, 02:06 PM
"On the subject of integrating previously free, or
shareware plugins into a LW release I think it's awesome!"

I agree but come on...those vids are basically catering to obsessive folk like myself who contribute to software forums over a christmas break supposedly reserved for family time. If we are not aware of cool freeware like powertools and edgetools, then who is (no offense, Art :))? Those vids prove that Newtek recognizes and can incorporate a quality tool when they see one. Now show us something new.

Show us that the freshly hired inhouse Newtek developers have some imagination or at least some appreciation for professional features and workflow...like textured wireframe and shaded background layers (no innovation there but definitely useful)! Ortho tools and bone dynamics look cool but beyond that I see clicky, clunky interfaces largely lacking attention to detail. Repetitive stress syndrome here we come. This is my impression anyway. Won't know for sure until I can take her for a test drive...


Show me some radically streamlined, advanced form of smartskin and I will be happy. That will be proof enough for me anyway that Newtek has not been ignoring the feature request forums...or at least show that they are capable of prioritizing and granting a feature that has been requested and re-requested endlessly since the release of six.

WilliamVaughan
12-30-2003, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Chris S. (Fez)
[B.

That will be proof enough for me anyway that Newtek has not been ignoring the feature request forums...or at least show that they are capable of prioritizing and granting a feature that has been requested and re-requested endlessly since the release of six. [/B]



the features in LightWave 8 more then prove to me that NewTek has been listening to the community and has read the Feature Request threads and emails.....

robinson
12-30-2003, 02:26 PM
I absolutely agree with Tesselator.


Btw I wasn’t criticising Newtek or anybody, don’t get me wrong William.
I also think it’s great when these “free” plugins are integrated in LW.
There are also so many new features in LW8, so in my opinion it is worth the price, and we get DFX+ for free.

Damn the brushed metal background in the UI is gone that’s already worth the price. :D

Adrian Lopez
12-30-2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Tesselator
On the subject of integrating previously free, or shareware plugins into a LW release I think it's awesome! Besides the fact that I don't know of a single commercial FX application vender that doesn't participate in this practice ... I don't think anybody's saying that it's wrong for Newtek to incorporate free plugins into Lightwave 8. After all, the more built-in features Lightwave has the better a product it is. What people are really complaining about is the relative lack of new and original features in Modeler 8. Companies do incorporate free plugins into their software packages, but these rarely ever constitute the majority of the software's new features. That's what we're complaining about.

wgreenlee1
12-30-2003, 02:49 PM
[Post removed by Moderator......Keep it clean or you will be removed from the forums]

Tesselator
12-30-2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Adrian Lopez
I don't think anybody's saying that it's wrong for Newtek to incorporate free plugins into Lightwave 8. After all, the more built-in features Lightwave has the better a product it is. What people are really complaining about is the relative lack of new and original features in Modeler 8. Companies do incorporate free plugins into their software packages, but these rarely ever constitute the majority of the software's new features. That's what we're complaining about.

"rarely ever" yes but sometimes do indeed.

I'm not sure if that's a legitimate complaint as I see things or not.
Of course it would only be legit or not to someone based on thier
own prespective of the issue. I haven't given it all that much
thought but considering everything I know and what I might
not know about the last 8 months and considering their rocord
over the last *15+ years I've been using and *distributing their
products I don't have a problem with it for now.

But either way is there any evidence that shows these inclusions
do in fact constitute the majority of new features?

(15+ Years...) Yes I'm a DigiView & DigiView Gold 2.0 user. :D

(Distribution) Up until about the release of Amiga Toaster 2.0 my
main gig was Amiga and related parts supply to shops located in
central Japan. Where I live BTW. I of course used my Amiga alot tho. :D


--
BTW if I recall correctly I remeber a release where it was almost
all modeler feature improvments and Layout wasn't hardly touched
until the .5 release. At that time there were some conserns aired
publically but not much. They made good on the .5 release plus some
more stuff for modeler and everyone was happy.

js33
12-30-2003, 04:55 PM
Tess,

I think the integrated plugins that are currently or previously available(David's Power tools) for free are mostly going into modeler. It is mainly the modeler only people that are unhappy.
Most of the work is being done on Layout which really needed the most updating. Also some of the stuff being integrated into Layout was previously available but they weren't free (Ortho bone tools). The original programmer of PFX and MD (Ino) is improving those and intergrating them better into Layout.

For me this is a good upgrade because I want to get more into character animation. I have dabbled with rigging and IK but it is alot of work now to make a decent character anim. Hopefully these new tools will remove some of the frustration.

Cheers,
JS

Adrian Lopez
12-30-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Tesselator
But either way is there any evidence that shows these inclusions
do in fact constitute the majority of new features?Only with regard to Modeler. The changes to Layout are great and provide real upgrade value. I'm just miffed about the relative lack of improvements to Modeler. I hope at least they've improved the UV tools.

robinson
12-30-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Adrian Lopez
....I hope at least they've improved the UV tools.

Wasn't there something about animatible UV's ?
Hey, wanna show us a video about that ??? :D

Tesselator
12-30-2003, 05:09 PM
Hehe,

I wonder if Modeler guys would be happier if they called this
release "Lightwave 3D ver.7.99 and a Half" or something? :D

robinson
12-30-2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Tesselator
Hehe,

I wonder if Modeler guys would be happier if they called this
release "Lightwave 3D ver.7.99 and a Half" or something? :D

they would be happier, Lightwave users never paid for .5 (.5b, .5c or .99) updates.:rolleyes:

sire
12-30-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by wgreenlee1
with layers (or the way lightwaves layers are now)you have to copy and paste even the most simple of operations by going to each channel and opening up the panel then closeing the panel then go to another channel and open it up and and paste and then on and on
I guess this will already be gone in LW8 due to the spreadsheet also including surface properties.

As a long time AE user now being blessed with a free DFX+, I just discover that layers may be not as flexible but actually most of the time are more convenient than nodes. Of course there are still situations where nodes come in handy... Well, it depends on how the node operators work.

Dodgy
12-30-2003, 06:28 PM
I agree, a lot of people asked for improvements to character tools, and now here we are. I think we'll just have to wait a little bit for some of the other tools the not so numerous people asked for to appear!

Matt
12-30-2003, 08:58 PM
well said Dodgy, users were screaming for better CA tools and now they have them, NT are listening to their users, why wouldn't they? it's only a matter of time before the rest is implemented.

j3st3r
12-30-2003, 11:43 PM
Wohaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Here attacks one of the whining folks! It`s me!

So, I think:

integrating well proved plugins is a good step from newtek. I love Ikeda tools, Edgetools, they are user friendly, and fast! Why bother the users and the developers to learn and develop new tools, if there are well working tools?

Way better politic is this than Maya. They used to develop their own solution instead of integrated the best "user solution"

Anyway, although I`m used to be pessimistic, I`m really interested in LW`s new features. Proton`s actions let me draw conclusion, that LW8 is near-near.

Cman
12-31-2003, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by j3st3r

integrating well proved plugins is a good step from newtek. I love Ikeda tools, Edgetools, they are user friendly, and fast! Why bother the users and the developers to learn and develop new tools, if there are well working tools?

Way better politic is this than Maya. They used to develop their own solution instead of integrated the best "user solution"

That's a very good point.
It certainly shows teh NT is tapped into their community and know what tools users like and which don't quite fulfill the needs.
It certainly makes me feel that my work would not go to waste should I ever write a really cool plugin - because NT would just integrate it and then everyone would benefit from it.

Very very good point. :D

j3st3r
12-31-2003, 02:47 AM
Anyway, I`m curiuous if ALL ikeda tools had been integrated? I think that his Connect Tool was excellent for bridge polygons, connect points. I do hope, that everything is integrated. Way better tool than the Bridge Poly tool were

jin choung
12-31-2003, 04:10 AM
:)

colkai
12-31-2003, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by Matt
well said Dodgy, users were screaming for better CA tools and now they have them, NT are listening to their users, why wouldn't they? it's only a matter of time before the rest is implemented.

Agreed.
Fascinating isn't it - all that clamour for CA tools and now they are here we are getting complaints of having CA tools "instead of X..Y.Z" - folks huh? ;)

You can never please all the people, it's just the vocal minority that make things sound worse than they are.

Kind of akin to when 3 million people see something on TV, 200 people complain and it is retracted or has to be investigated, wierd! The simple truth is, those who are happy do not post messages saying how happy there are. If they ever do of course, they are labeled "fanboys" and are looked upon in a derogatory manner by the complainers. :rolleyes:

..Case in point - see above post! - We all know efforts were concenreated on Layout - so hey - let's whine about Modeller!
If Lw was rebuilt from the ground up, integrated, all new powerful tools you know what, these same folks would winge about how the manuals are so out of date and need a complete revision. <shrugs>
Move on - if it is so rubbish, don't use it, if you are already using it and making money why complain about what you DON'T EVEN HAVE.
If you pre-paid and are annoyed - why pre-pay if you weren't sure what the final product would be.
Move on people.

Jin, fer gawds sake get a grip - life is far too short to get your blood up so badly over a piece of software.
Right now, this is *very* clear to me, if you are so damned unhappy, buy elsewhere. I don't care if you have been using Lw in the past, your tirades cannot reasonably be called support of LW can they? Blatantly you are deeply unhappy with LW.
If you buy Max or Maya, maybe your blood pressure will go down, or then again, maybe not.

One point - yet another insult "unless newtek owns up to the fact that it did not put a lot of thought or effort into modeler" - way to advance your case, not to mention the littered profanity - yes - very professional of you. Sad to say, there really ARE 12 year olds here who are conducting themselves better than you at present.

jin choung
12-31-2003, 04:28 AM
what i want is honesty.

passing off a bunch of free plugins as an upgrade to modeler is not my idea of honesty.

also, the pr is just being handled badly.

instead of just owning up to the possibility that modeler is gonna get shortchanged this time around, they keep trying to throw the wool over our eyes and saying 'no no, it's gonna be great'.

there have been threads where i have specifically predicted that the modeler upgrade will not amount to much more than what now seems to be like the imminent reality -

TO BE DIRECTLY CONTRADICTED.... what the hell is the point in that?!

allow expectation to develop for something that will eventually disappoint?

bah-

jin

colkai
12-31-2003, 04:36 AM
Originally posted by jin choung

there have been threads where i have specifically predicted that the modeler upgrade will not amount to much more than what now seems to be like the imminent reality -


Okay then - so what you thought might happen looks like it will - so given this forsight one could suggest you would have been looking elsewhere for your next piece of software.

Let me make the point again - you don't have it yet - it isn't finished / released. Did you pre-pay? If so, why if you could see what was likely to happen?

If you expected Modeller to 'fall by the wayside' - are you at all surprised by the new tools (regardless of if they are of specific use to *you*)?

As as have said before, all this posturing and "if they don't im gonna.." is putting you firmly outside of the "take seriously" camp lately with other folks whos reputation has preceeded them.

Don't like it - don't get it - how many times does this have to be said? YOU DON'T HAVE TO UPGRADE, there is no gun to your head, it is your choice, sheesh! :rolleyes:

jin choung
12-31-2003, 04:44 AM
:D

j3st3r
12-31-2003, 05:03 AM
I suspect that the modeller case is the result of the Newtek Luxology relation. If you look at the modeller about box, you see Stuart Ferguson as the copyright owner. And Stuart is co-founder of Luxology. I suppose, that Luxology and Newtek agreed. Since I suppose, that Modo was developed to be the next generation of Modeler, I`m almost sure that the agreement doesn`t allow the core developement of modeler for a limited time. Or, they allowed the core developement as well, with other conditions, but Newtek had no time to make their developement (that sounds more realistic)



Anyway, Jin. I felt the same. But I learned to live with the lack of modeller, and I hope that NT will do it`s best to make modeller as best as possible.

stone
12-31-2003, 05:11 AM
no need to speculate jester. chuck have made it clear that newtek owns all rights at this time.

/stone

jin choung
12-31-2003, 05:22 AM
:)

j3st3r
12-31-2003, 06:26 AM
stone: I haven`t read that post. But I`m pretty sure that`s it`s the situation

jin: this agreement caused a lot of delay in developing Lightwave, hence the lack of greater modeller update. Be patient for the next 8.x version...I hope they will do it till then

Valter
12-31-2003, 06:39 AM
I'm not happy with modeler as well.

I can see that newtek don't have a solution for symmetry yet. I did hope at least that edgetools had symmetry option.

I did think that we'll new icons or something in viewport bar to speed up workflow in modeling. Proton had said about it in a thread, months ago. Something like shortcuts of Display Option Panel (key d) in viewport bar. If newtek would like something really good, new and easy to do...


cheers

look this
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=495 (ONLY IMAGES)

j3st3r
12-31-2003, 06:56 AM
I`m not too happy as well. But I forced myself to understand Newtek`s situation. They`ve just get out of this Luxology affair. I`m sure it would be more problem, if they delay the v8 until they update modeler. Let`s hope it`ll be updated, and based upon user comments.

If not, there are alternative solutions. As I use Wings3d sometimes for several tasks, I would use modo, if it worth it`s price.

cresshead
12-31-2003, 07:04 AM
well newtek can't please everyone all the time.

this update is mainly layout with a tweek or two in modeler and some plugins brought into the app from the community from such as dstorm etc..personally i'm really excited about the ikboost tool mostly as i want to do character animation with as little hassle as possible and lightwave 8's tools make it look VERY simple to rig a character now..much better than lightwave 7.5 or motion builder or character studio for setting up ik which is the PAIN end of character animation as PROTON mentioned at siggraph this summer...

if your not stoked up about lightwave 8's new stuff and REALLY want more power now in modeling in 3d then you have some options open ..you can hope that *o*o comes out very soon and is kick ***..though *ux's site has no information about when, what and how much...well no information at all really...so currently it's staus is that of "vapourware" but does hold a lot of promise in the long term

other than that you have maya, cinema4d [and the £6 cinema6CE version could help out out here as seen on the 3dworld magazine a while back] and 3dsmax...not to also mention wings3d, silo etc..

so some of these app can fill a void that you may observe in what you need right now in lightwave...you have options

personally i'm hoping for a few tweeks on lights and radiosity in lightwave 8 but have seen nothing so far...but even if nothing comes out in that area of lightwave 8..well that ik boost tool is there and looks very tastey indeed to me!

i hope there's something for everyone in the update maybe not their number one thing but somthing to please most artists who currently use lightwave 7.5 or those looking into getting their first 3d app...

not long now....

Tesselator
12-31-2003, 07:11 AM
LOL, Jin, you crack me up. :D
I loved your UFO theory the best of all! Hehehehe...
It's about as far reaching as all the other theories on
modeler and just plausable.

The only serious question I have is what you meant by:

"passing off a bunch of free plugins as an upgrade to modeler is not my idea of honesty."

What's not honest about it? Especially when you know
as well as I do that 8.5 (usually free) will take care of it.

But in a way all this grim outlook might be a good thing. (NOT)
I mean we used to overestimate what the releases would
be like and feel let down by the x.0 release and justified
or empowered in some weird way when the x.5 release
came out. Now this way, with all this outlandish speculation
and underestimation we'll be a little pleasently surprised
by the x.0 release and drop-jaw floored by the x.5

badllarma
12-31-2003, 07:42 AM
REF Removed post

Jin you really need to do three things

Have a Beer, have sex and relax, you are already having ago at something that is not even out yet! Good grief get a life man it's a computer application, a program! Not the end of the world!

So modeler is not what YOU wanted! hey welcome to the real world we don't always get what WE want!

What we were told and know infact is the major changes in Lightwave 8 were in Layout, thats what they really had time to do after the Lux thing and that is what we have got and by all accounts it rocks, from what I have seen so far......
But development does not finish with the release of 8 it continues it's a business they arn't just going to let a paid development team sit there and do sod all until Lightwave 9 there going to continue to work on the product. So maybe by 8.2 or 8.5 (a free upgrade) you may have all you want in modeler or a better improved render solution who knows only Newtek.

But while your waiting answer me this at this present second in time can you model all your current work or hobby projects in 7.5?
Area 51 can, Id software can I can and many thousands of others can as well either learn more of what you have already or use another app that is better suited to your needs it's that simple.

Well I don't know where you are in the world but it's New Years Eve afternoon in the UK and I'm off to do all three things on my list depending on what mood the girl friend is in that is :D
Happy New Year to you Jin who knows what 2004 will bring maybe all you ever wanted in a 3D app :)

stone
12-31-2003, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by cresshead
if your not stoked up about lightwave 8's new stuff and REALLY want more power now in modeling in 3d then you have some options open [..] you have maya [..]

just a little off topic wondering. why does people always present maya as a good alternative modeler? its really the worst modeler out there, while xsi imho is second best to lightwave and 3dmax third. yeah i realise its mostly a matter of preferences, but its just strange that some people have so high thoughts about something they often havnt even tried.

/stone

meatycheesyboy
12-31-2003, 08:08 AM
stone,

I think you might be misinterpreting cresshead's comment. He provided a list of many alternatives but he didn't suggest one over any of the others nor did he say that any of them were *good* alternatives. He only provided a list, and Maya happened to be on the list.

Chuck
12-31-2003, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by j3st3r

I suspect that the modeller case is the result of the Newtek Luxology relation. If you look at the modeller about box, you see Stuart Ferguson as the copyright owner. And Stuart is co-founder of Luxology. I suppose, that Luxology and Newtek agreed. Since I suppose, that Modo was developed to be the next generation of Modeler, I`m almost sure that the agreement doesn`t allow the core developement of modeler for a limited time. Or, they allowed the core developement as well, with other conditions, but Newtek had no time to make their developement (that sounds more realistic)



Anyway, Jin. I felt the same. But I learned to live with the lack of modeller, and I hope that NT will do it`s best to make modeller as best as possible.

NewTek owns LightWave 3D and has no limits on developing any aspect of it, beyond the limits of time and resources. The 8.0 release is the first for a new development team and does indeed concentrate on some specific areas where the application really needed additional strength, and also on resolving a number of long-standing issues. Modeler has additions both developed by NewTek and acquired from third party.

Any areas that may seem more modestly developed in the 8.0 release will certainly be addressed - no part of LightWave will be untouched in the 8.x development cycle and past and present user input will most certainly be taken into account as we go forward.

We've been very frank about what the areas of emphasis have been, and anyone who mistakes that for misdirection is, quite simply, very mistaken about the intent in our communications. Yes, we've countered folks saying that Modeler has been completely neglected or can't be developed by pointing out that we are both developing it actively and acquiring tools (and frankly, the acquired tools may be more visible than some of the in-house development on the architectural and operational issues). That's not an effort to raise expectations to unrealistic levels, which we know would be counterproductive - just an effort to balance unrealistically low expectations, which anyone who reads the forums would know is also counterproductive to the point of starting virtual riots when people assert that nothing at all has been done and other people believe it and react accordingly.

If anyone feels we're mishandling our PR, we're certainly willing to listen to suggestions. We're doing the best we can to figure out how to communicate with our users and we're doing it with the best intentions. We're honored that so many talented artists and designers have chosen LightWave, and our intent is to develop the product in such a way that in all aspects it will remain the tool of choice for current users and become the tool of choice for a wide range of new users.

Phil
12-31-2003, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by robinson
they would be happier, Lightwave users never paid for .5 (.5b, .5c or .99) updates.:rolleyes:

With the exception of 5.5 (not sure about 3.5)

TSpyrison
12-31-2003, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Chuck
We're doing the best we can to figure out how to communicate with our users and we're doing it with the best intentions.

I know, I for one, realy do appreciate that..
Im sure there are alot more who do also..



:)

Matt
12-31-2003, 08:21 AM
what's with the flurry of long time forum members being banned!?! jin choung and now wgreenlee1, is the world going mad!

I know jin could become quite 'vocal' but does anyone know why he was banned?

Phil
12-31-2003, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by Chuck

If anyone feels we're mishandling our PR, we're certainly willing to listen to suggestions. We're doing the best we can to figure out how to communicate with our users and we're doing it with the best intentions. We're honored that so many talented artists and designers have chosen LightWave, and our intent is to develop the product in such a way that in all aspects it will remain the tool of choice for current users and become the tool of choice for a wide range of new users.

I'd be happier if I saw even a simple automated reply from the [email protected] address. I am not sure that the signal-to-noise ratio in the feature request forum is sufficiently high to give a request posted there much chance. The problem is that [email protected] can have the appearance of a black hole.

I remain happy with [email protected] because of the occasions where Deuce has requested additional info in relation to bug reports that I have filed.

That said, PR is only half the concern I have. I am getting concerned that a significant number of developers for plugins are finding the LW market is quite soft at the moment. With that and the long standing SDK issues (HV data not available for post-processing being one of many), I would like to see NewTek really and obviously going to town on courting new and existing developers to give them a sense of confidence in the future. Providing a service to compile plugins for Mac (for those on PC) would also be very useful (the Mac users would love to have parity with the PC folks), although I understand that there are/were a few volunteers out there who would do the job as well. *shrug*

stone
12-31-2003, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by meatycheesyboy
I think you might be misinterpreting cresshead's comment.

yeah i realise my post isnt formulated that well. it wasnt ment for cresshead at all but more the general reasoning across the forum. people hold out for instance maya as something paritcular good, even in areas where its heavily lacking. its off topic really and just my mind wandering.

/stone

Chuck
12-31-2003, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by Matt
what's with the flurry of long time forum members being banned!?! jin choung and now wgreenlee1, is the world going mad!

I know jin could become quite 'vocal' but does anyone know why he was banned?

To repeat from our Moderation Notices at the top of each forum:



Notice from 7/18/03

The NewTek Forums are not a free speech zone, they are for professional and civil discourse regarding NewTek products by NewTek users. Those who are unable to stick to topic or unable to maintain civil conversation with others will have their accounts removed.

Moderation decisions are not subject to public discussion. If you have comments, send an email or private message to the moderators.




Moderation Notice - August 12, 2003

A great deal of energy and angst has been expended for a long time over speculations that are simply not productive. We've let this continue for a reasonable amount of time so that the community can vent, but it is time to put closure to this subject on the NewTek forums. These forums are for the discussion of NewTek products by NewTek users. Comparison discussions between NewTek products currently shipping and competing products currently shipping will be moved to the General Discussion Section of the board. Speculations on competing products that are not shipping or regarding past political events around LightWave will need to find a home elsewhere, as they will be removed here. Promotional messages and material for competing products will also be removed. The user accounts of those who demonstrably have no purpose on the NewTek forums other than to promote competing products will also be removed.

Tesselator
12-31-2003, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by stone
just a little off topic wondering. why does people always present maya as a good alternative modeler?
/stone

People who actually know both apps Don't. :D

Kvaalen
12-31-2003, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by Chuck
Any areas that may seem more modestly developed in the 8.0 release will certainly be addressed - no part of LightWave will be untouched in the 8.x development cycle and past and present user input will most certainly be taken into account as we go forward.

That is great news... it is what I expected too. And I suppose that they will be free too. :)

Matt: Wgreenly1 was banned before Jin. I think the reason is that he wasn't keeping his posts clean. You can't see what he wrote because it has been replaced with a smiliy. :)
Jin just started yelling and swearing as soon as he came and didn't stop bitching and kept on saying that he'll continue to *****.

I hope that at least now we'll have peace. It is sad that such long time users got banned. :(
I hope it is temporary.

colkai
12-31-2003, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by Matt
I know jin could become quite 'vocal' but does anyone know why he was banned?

My guess, only a guess though, the spiral into rants and abusive / profane posts. Which were becoming once again aimed at Newtek staff.

It's all too much...
Well, I've just finished printing some stuff, so off to do some work, take dog for walk, pour whisky and reflect on how life can be both bad.. (losing my close friend, funeral on Friday) and good (LW8 pre-ordered and MB5 upgrade arrived yesterday!).

Life is, if nought else, full of surprises.
So eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow... is another year!

Yog
12-31-2003, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Matt
what's with the flurry of long time forum members being banned!?! jin choung and now wgreenlee1, is the world going mad!

I know jin could become quite 'vocal' but does anyone know why he was banned?

I'm thinking of getting myself banned just to show solidarity ;)

I do feal very strongly about this, and it just shows that others feel even stronger :(

It's all right saying "Layout and animation now ..... Modeler soon", but after five years of hearing it and not seeing anything to back it up even that setence starts to become a red flag to a bull, which is why I suspect a number of long standing members have kicked off big time.

TSpyrison
12-31-2003, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by Matt
what's with the flurry of long time forum members being banned!?! jin choung and now wgreenlee1, is the world going mad!

I know jin could become quite 'vocal' but does anyone know why he was banned?

I think being vocal is fine, as long as we all remain courteous. I think jin needs a few beers..
although, that could make it worse.... Hmmm

cresshead
12-31-2003, 09:27 AM
i see that some people's patience has run out and they "lost it" in some threads...i hope thay can come back on board soon as their points of view were good but could have been delivered a little less harshly in written text..i feel some thought that the only way to be heard is to shout loudly and to stand out from the crowd which didn'y treally get them anywhere longterm..as some have said area51 etc create great models with what they have in lw7.5 but i'm sure they'd like more capabilities..just as you can ik rig in lightwave 7.5 but the ik boost in lw8 makes it child's play in comparison so you'd do more in less time whith a better setup....

as for maya as a modeler well i personally don't spend much time in maya [ple] but there's quite a bit of talk in CGTALK about ngon's in maya and their usage..so it has some capabilities that lightwave may benefit from in future...

i think that there will be a better "vibe" to the forum's when we actually get the definative list of what's in lightwave 8.0 release..for the things that are in, and the things that didn't make it in 8.0...i reckon it's the NOT KNOWING that's wearing rather thin after the 6 month's waiting from our first look at lightwave 8 at siggraph plus the delay of the release date pushed out into 2004.

the furure's bright...the futures's "light----wave"

ghopper
12-31-2003, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Yog
I'm thinking of getting myself banned just to show solidarity ;)


I think issuing a warning first would have been more appropriate, before banning Jin and wgreenlee1.

But on the other hand I can understand NT as well. They must be very p*ssed off about all this b*tching lately ( not only here but on cgtalk as well ).

I think NT wouldn't have reacted this way if all the criticism would have been put down more constructively.

But I'm sure Jin will be allowed back soon, otherwise it's gonna be a bit boring ;)

WilliamVaughan
12-31-2003, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by ghopper
I think issuing a warning first would have been more appropriate, before banning Jin and wgreenlee1.



So if Chuck posting several warning in the past and having to resort to placing a sticky thread at the top of every section of teh forums isn't warning enuff then what is?

j3st3r
12-31-2003, 10:34 AM
I`m glad I talked to you yesterday, proton. I`m really glad...

Anyway that my cause the loss of two guys as LW users...

Valter
12-31-2003, 10:36 AM
Oh GOD!!!! WTF world we're living???

Where are the freedom that all american people always screamming for all the world?? :(

It's very sad see things like it.

I'll avoid post msg in this forum now. I don't agree with newtek politic.

I think that, if you sell a software for public, you should be prepared to listen them.

cheers and caution with your words.

TSpyrison
12-31-2003, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Valter
Oh GOD!!!! WTF world we're living???

Where are the freedom that all american people always screamming for all the world?? :(

It's very sad see things like it.

I'll avoid post msg in this forum now. I don't agree with newtek politic.

I think that, if you sell a software for public, you should be prepared to listen them.

cheers and caution with your words.

Newtek politics? Whats wrong with wanting the users of the forum to be civil? There is nothing political about that..

If people can't be civil.. then they should have no business being here. Customer or not.

WilliamVaughan
12-31-2003, 10:52 AM
NewTek is and always will be open ears to it's customers....that hasn't changed and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

ghopper
12-31-2003, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by proton
So if Chuck posting several warning in the past and having to resort to placing a sticky thread at the top of every section of teh forums isn't warning enuff then what is?

I was only refering to this specific thread and I would have personally issued a warning first. It's not like you have to ban people everyday, so posting a warning only takes max. 1 min.

But I can understand yours and Chuck's frustration about this. After all the hard work ( especially your effort put in during the holidays ) all it seems you hear are only complaints and this certainly can't be motivating.

Anyway, have a happy new year and less frustrations ;)

WilliamVaughan
12-31-2003, 10:57 AM
complaints are welcomed and expected....everyone has an opinion....but there is a professional way to share your thoughts and concerns and then there is what we have seen lately.

RomainR
12-31-2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Valter
Oh GOD!!!! WTF world we're living???

Where are the freedom that all american people always screamming for all the world?? :(

It's very sad see things like it.

I'll avoid post msg in this forum now. I don't agree with newtek politic.

I think that, if you sell a software for public, you should be prepared to listen them.

cheers and caution with your words.

NewTek isn't America, but it is in America. Don't get yourself confused.

They have the right to conduct their business as they please.

Nobody likes to be yelled at and told lot's of nasty stuff in your own house. If someone barged into my home and started a riot for nothing, his (_!_) is gettin' the boot.

NewTek layed out the rules for everyone. If you can't follow the rule then that's your problem.

NewTek has rights too, not just the user.

CB_3D
12-31-2003, 11:13 AM
I model, texture, light and animate. So the ik booster, dope-whatever and dynamics are VERY welcome additions. In fact, this is a worthy update.

But I can understand longtime users (like me) being a little dissapointed after all this time. Modeler, skinnable interface, open renderer link etc ARE very important for a modern 3d proggy.

But making enough negative noise to get yourself banned over it??

Come on, people...all we are doing is to provide a good laugh for other 3d software fanboys.:rolleyes:

cresshead
12-31-2003, 11:53 AM
you have to be aware that this is newtek's forum and as such they have the last say...and always will..

think of it as a "pub" as in the public can come in, have a chat etc but if it get's too vocal the landlord can eject unruly visitors for the benefit of the majority who frequent the establishment where they come and chat about their favorite 3d program in a newtek hosted forum..sure they'll be differences of opinion but when it disolves into a slanging match then nothing can "go forward" and in reality it will defeat the purpose of engaging newtek's "ear" to requests of possible development in lightwave down the path that the user may want it to go for "their" personal gain...


newtek is a business and it benefit's them to progress the products that they sell toward what the majority of the users and prospective users want...there's a "priority order" to attend to things that would need to be introduced or invented to either keep their current users or gain new users of lightwave and that's exactly what newtek have done in the details that we know of so far.

they are a business....and lightwave is not a "loss leader" like MAYA, it has to stand on it's own two feet as a profitable 3d appliction so the things that are developed in new version are mainly to keep users and generate new users that may be looking at cinema4d, maya or 3dsmax....and newtek have some very neat ways of conducting business in comparison to those mentioned above and i for one moved from 3dsmax to lightwave for several reasons which i've been through time and again and they still hold true today.

everone has options...

i've opted for lightwave and the way newtek does it's development and business of selling, developing and supporting 3d artists.

...oh and to everyone out there..have a great new year too

KillMe
12-31-2003, 11:56 AM
i cant see what people are complaining about

layout seems to be an almost completly new beast - and a looks pretty damn awesome - i've watched afew rigging vids and stuff for maya and frankly they dont even begine to compare to ikboost tool

ok modeler only has minor visable changes but from what chuck said seems like some work has gone in under the bonnet and is probally laying the foundations for cool new stuff to come

and the updates in modeler are all good and useful things and i would imagine alot of lightwave users who dont spend all day on teh internet have no idea they existed before they get there hands on lw8 so will be increibully happy with them

to top it off they are all nice intergrated now and in afew cases hopefully made abit more stable

and since its clearly been stated that during the 8.x run nothign will be left untouched why worry unlike most apps we dont have to shell out anymore cash until we get to lightwave 9

now youc an call me a rabid fanboy if you wish from my limited experiance with maya and max while they may have afew cools tools there is very little that cant be done in lightwave faster even without those tools

and where all else fails

pick the software with the best name =) and that jsut has to be lightwave

j3st3r
12-31-2003, 12:24 PM
complaining is usually for those features, that are standards in other apps, but LW lacks them. Jin`s long run was about the UV distortion on Subdivs. This is a serious issue, I hope it addressed. You need a really dense control cage UV mapped to avoid the distortion. All other pack manage this successfully. Other issue is the surface previews. I cannot see any UV textured surface in this preview...Neither in VIPER (only if I set subdiv level to 0), etc., etc.

Anyway, I hope that these issues will be fixed ASAP.

Happy New Year to all member, banned and not banned also. Here it is ca 3.5 hours till 1st of January

WilliamVaughan
12-31-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by j3st3r
Jin`s long run was about the UV distortion on Subdivs.

Users are free to post requests and complaints...but Jin wasn't banned for this reason.

TSpyrison
12-31-2003, 12:54 PM
Ya know what I think we need?

More videos before the end of the year to take everyones mind off the whole complaining thing..



:D

retinajoy
12-31-2003, 01:03 PM
Happy New Year EVERYONE! 4 hrs to go here in UK as I type. Off to the Pub now for my medicine.

Proton, Newtek etc - Lightwave 8 is looking great!

j3st3r
12-31-2003, 01:21 PM
Users are free to post requests and complaints...but Jin wasn't banned for this reason.

Sure, I know. Happy new year again to all! Here it 2h 40 minutes to countdown...I`m with my family (wife, two kids) and just watching Mike Flatley`s excellent show: Feet of Flames...

js33
12-31-2003, 02:59 PM
I missed all the fireworks. :D

Well I know Jin has been very vocal about Modeler not having much of an update this time around. It was clearly stated by Newtek months ago that Layout is the main focus for this update. I agree that it probably doesn't make those modeler only people very happy. But Newtek is basically recovering from a big blow to the development team and it seems they are really on track now. Also I know NT is working hard to make this a good update but the fact that it is still not out and was delayed isn't helping the situation. I appreciate the DFX deal but what I really want is the new Lightwave. :(

So hurry up and release it already. :D

Cheers,
JS

Tesselator
12-31-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by proton
Users are free to post requests and complaints...but Jin wasn't banned for this reason.
Well, gosh. He was I assume, replying to my post. I certainly
hope I didn't elicit such a response by something I wrote. Jin
and I are almost always on friendly terms in the public forums.

In general however, I think etiquette and it's enforcement in
public forums is a good thing. Well unless it's a punk-rock
forum or something? NewTek forums are very very loose!
As some of you may know I recently started using IRC and
poking around in the various channels. Here are a few of
the expiriences I had there:
[list=1]
Ryan C. some of you may know worked on the movie HELIX
(a MATRIX satire) and as he was finializing several versions
of his trailer for that film he needed some feedback. He linked
us up The_Red_Pill.MOV in my little LW channel and all he got
at first was WOWs and etc. (because it was so good) so I
thought getting some non-LWers in there to have a look would
be good. So I went to #Promode where I oft go to IRC Quake
players, to ask if anyone wanted to review a film over at #LW3D.
Bang! In 7seconds I was banned and they won't let me back
in either. I asked very politely too. You all know my style.

After just installing Mandrake 9 I wanted to know how to log
on as root so I could install the like, 20 packages I had ready
to go. So I went to the #mandrake channel and asked. I was
informed that it's not the prescribed way and that logging on
as root is bad. After 3 or 4 ["ok I understand, I'm willing to
chance it. Could you tell me how please"s] the channel mod
told me that if I didn't drop it imediatly and never again mention
logging on as root he would have me banned. Well I dropped it
but I'm 100% sure he would have. And again I was using what
I thought was a nice level of diplomacy.
[/list=1]
So NewTek in comparrison is extremely lenient to say the
least.

Matt
12-31-2003, 08:04 PM
fair play, you play with fire and you'll get burned, if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen and other analogys!!!

excuse me it's 3am I've just got back from the pub on new years and I'm a bit drunk!!! :)

happy new year everyone!!!

:)
;)
:)

TSpyrison
12-31-2003, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Matt
fair play, you play with fire and you'll get burned, if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen and other analogys!!!

excuse me it's 3am I've just got back from the pub on new years and I'm a bit drunk!!! :)

happy new year everyone!!!

:)
;)
:)

And you can still spell??? :D
You ain't drunk enough man!!!

riki
12-31-2003, 09:12 PM
Thanks for the Modeling videos Proton and Larry (I'm guessing it's Larry). I'm interested to know what the new buttons in the bottom right hand section of the interface are for.

Next the W, T, M the C, S buttons.

I think Modeler is very well regarded in the CG industry, it's one of the strongest aspects of Lightwave. For that reason it makes good sense to focus on other areas in Layout that needed attention.

ccwoo0805
12-31-2003, 09:27 PM
proton
Improve UV to work better with Sub-Ds, please
please please

thanks

Karmacop
12-31-2003, 09:35 PM
W,T,M,C,S are weight, texture (uv), morph, colour, and selection.

colkai
01-01-2004, 05:08 AM
The addition of a selection sets button is very welcome for me.
I only recently started using them because they were 'tucked away'. Now I have things like UV create and selection set create on buttons on my UI which can make picking things much easier. My Tardis console build was speeded up a lot by this, (see BadLlamas 'merrry xmas' thread).

Like many, I feel Modeller needs some work and yah - edges is right up there as a 'love to have'.
However, Chuck, Proton et al have made it clear that the 8.0 release is Layout based and I'm pretty confident that by 8.9x or such, Modeller too will be overhauled to some degree, not just including 3rd party plugins.
(Lest we forget, they now employ some of these developers ;) ).
I am very excited by what lies ahead, even though I expect not to get all I wish and to have bugs and crashes to deal with. That is just the nature of software, you can't hide from it. :p

So to all at Newtek, let it flow ..and Proton, keeps those videos coming man! :D