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Marander
06-21-2018, 01:55 PM
The LW2018 Properties dialogs are not displayed properly. I can see this on various LW installations (different resolutions with or without scaling) and I can even see this in the LW2018 Blog videos.

I wonder if it's only bothering me (and I wonder how new or occasional LW users can use LW this way), but not having scalable properties panels and not seeing the tab titles is very annoying.

Is this only happening on Windows? (Using Windows 10 Pro and Enterprise with NVidia graphics, resolutions 1920x1200, 1920x1080, 3840x2160 etc.)

I cannot understand why this has not been fixed so far. I mean, this is like the most used dialog in LW! Do I have to open a bug report for this?

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Vong
06-21-2018, 02:41 PM
It's always been like this for as far back as I can remember.

People have asked for scalable panels for years. We most likely won't see them, until there's a major overhaul of the UI.

Ztreem
06-21-2018, 03:20 PM
A new gui is surely only 5-10 years away. :)

Revanto
06-21-2018, 07:48 PM
My tabs in Modeler are already swamped with plugins and Lscripts so the names on the tabs are barely recognisable. It probably would have been nice to have scrolling tabs just like in Zbrush so you can have plenty of space to manoeuvre and add buttons and actually see ALL the options. Even adding sub menus would have been cool.

Basically, the more customisable something is, the more happy users will be.

I already made my requests when I filled out the survey so let's see how things turn out.

Revanto :p

jwiede
06-21-2018, 10:21 PM
If tooltip support wound up being the only meaningful GUI modernization coming short-term, that capability by itself would still immensely improve the LW UI/UX across-the-board. Tabs too narrow? Tooltip pops up to give full name. Button too narrow? Tooltip pops up with full name and maybe even a single line of associated description (pulled from internal db using underlying cmd as key). It's trivial to see how that one bit of capability solves so many "common irritations" with current GUI discoverability and navigability.

Even if they can't do the whole GUI engine until later, even if it means the responsible tooltip code might need to be redone from scratch over again when that GUI engine later comes, I still see vast evidence the RoI from adding tooltips grossly outweighs any risk and/or cost arguments against it.

Anyway, it's nice to dream.

jeric_synergy
06-21-2018, 10:33 PM
Maybe I'm mistake, but my impression is that a lot of the UI rubbishness is a side effect of the devs, 'wayyyyy back when, so different people, rolled their own UI toolkit and it has, to be polite, MANY shortcomings. But it was used across, what, four platforms? (Windows, Mac, SGI, and Linux.)

Why else would they saddle us with ridiculous stuff like fixed-width panels and FAR TOO NARROW tabs? Seriously, it's pathetic.

That's my theory, because I don't believe Matt is ACTIVELY evil. ;)

Marander
06-22-2018, 12:55 AM
Thanks for the feedbacks!

I initially thought it was something with specific screen resolutions / scaling settings etc. but it seems to be a known issue with LW.

About Tooltips: That's a great idea but I don't really like tooltips because it means I have to hover over each tab and look at the tooltab. Tooltips for icons yes, but not for tab titles.

About not being able to do this in LW due to old or multiplatform code: They managed (or had to) change the Render dialog and that works ok now in 2018.

So it would be possible technically and I expected this to be a major priority for one of the first 2018 fix packs. There was enough time to do this in the 2018 dev cycle and it's not rocket science.

It's not some hidden feature that can be ignored, this is dialog one of the most used panels and required for new volumetrics or anything with particles / effects and something new users would be struggling with.

gerry_g
06-22-2018, 06:49 AM
you could always cannibalise or append any of the L,M,R mouse button menus I do and I know a lot of other people do too, try adding a new group with an appropriate title to one of them with your favourite tools, also the format is not fixed width so you get a better character count per line. If they would only allow you to resign the L,M,R to any hotkey it would be perfect

rustythe1
06-22-2018, 07:53 AM
Thanks for the feedbacks!

I initially thought it was something with specific screen resolutions / scaling settings etc. but it seems to be a known issue with LW.

About Tooltips: That's a great idea but I don't really like tooltips because it means I have to hover over each tab and look at the tooltab. Tooltips for icons yes, but not for tab titles.

About not being able to do this in LW due to old or multiplatform code: They managed (or had to) change the Render dialog and that works ok now in 2018.

So it would be possible technically and I expected this to be a major priority for one of the first 2018 fix packs. There was enough time to do this in the 2018 dev cycle and it's not rocket science.

It's not some hidden feature that can be ignored, this is dialog one of the most used panels and required for new volumetrics or anything with particles / effects and something new users would be struggling with.

oddly, it is an issue that for some reason has been made worse in 2018, if you look at the 2015 panel its wider, and you still have enough text to see what it says, so for some reason its been made to be smaller, either on purpose or by removing one of the scrollbox panels that forced the width (surely all they need to do to make it bigger is make the title box bigger to force the width?)
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jwiede
06-22-2018, 12:22 PM
you could always cannibalise or append any of the L,M,R mouse button menus I do and I know a lot of other people do too, try adding a new group with an appropriate title to one of them with your favourite tools, also the format is not fixed width so you get a better character count per line. If they would only allow you to resign the L,M,R to any hotkey it would be perfect

Well, and that not everything hiding in those panels can be pulled up by the menu system, etc. That's a general problem with LW's configurability: It's incomplete, too many sections are hard-wired or special-cased, and as a result there's really no possibility for third-parties to do much w.r.t. general GUI engine updating. It can only be done by Newtek, because too much of the infrastructure is hard-coded and thus inaccessible via SDK for third-party devs -- same reason third-parties can't usefully replace menu editor, plugin mgmt, or other key "feature mgmt GUIs" for that matter.

jeric_synergy
06-22-2018, 01:29 PM
It is really bad that so much of the UI stuff does not show up in LScript Commander too. They took really good aim at their foot with that practice.

WHY is so much hardwired? Legacy shackles?