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jaxtone
05-13-2018, 12:08 PM
Been trying to find information about this on Newteks webpages without result.

Cannot find any threads in the forum that explains how to this either.

Therefore I am asking you who have more experience than me the following question:

How can I render the objects wireframe only in Lightwave 3D 2018?

Jack

prometheus
05-13-2018, 12:17 PM
Itīs not the same as in 2015...in the video 1:16 in the clip.
It is now located under the objects properties/primitive tab..under edges...use patch boarders.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9oq1m33bzU

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141678&d=1526235411

prometheus
05-13-2018, 12:47 PM
And ...out of nowhere I assumed you wanted subpatch, which you actually didnīt say..so in regards to what I refered to, normal wireframe..check other edges.

jaxtone
05-13-2018, 12:52 PM
No that looked just great! But there is a problem when using subpatch on a whole object and only one surface reacts!




And ...out of nowhere I assumed you wanted subpatch, which you actually didnīt say..so in regards to what I refered to, normal wireframe..check other edges.

prometheus
05-13-2018, 01:14 PM
No that looked just great! But there is a problem when using subpatch on a whole object and only one surface reacts!

You would probably want to look at some of nodes stuff for applying it on surfaces, not actually in to that..and you also have a checkbox under other edges, not sure ..but you may need that to make it work properly, not sure but anyway, in the same properties tab where you set these render settings, enter itīs node and you will have a special edge node to work with.

prometheus
05-13-2018, 01:20 PM
sublimation edge shading per surface perhaps...

141680

prometheus
05-13-2018, 01:58 PM
found a solution, didnīt know anything about it before, nor did I read any manual, but just guessing and lurking, found the mesh element switch, which obviously has some edge rendering stuff going on, then I duplicated the standard material made it black for wire, the other standard material should be whatever surface you want of course, then I fed this duplicated standard material in the edge patch border, now..you also have to have edge patch border checked in the Primitive/edge properties as can be seen in the images, and further on..you need to check surface shaded as seen in the images, or it will just apply the edge patch border render on the whole object.

so this is maybe how you should approach it, and forget what I mentioned about celshading.

all these nodes are not in the edge nodes ..itīs in the pertaining surface where I set these up..

You may have to mix materials though..this is just a process of finding out currently, and itīs hockey world championships tonight and soon bedtime and work tomorrow, so I canīt bring you a final solution right now.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141681&d=1526241457

MonroePoteet
05-13-2018, 02:07 PM
I think what jaxtone is looking for is the LW2015 pulldown in the Render Properties which allowed the render to be performed in Realistic, Quick Shade or Wireframe. Wireframe and Quick Shade are nice for previewing item motions and visualization without having to wait for a Realistic render.

Sadly, it looks like this isn't directly available in LW2018. I think the best way would be to use the Preview functionality. Set up the Layout view the way you want it, with Wireframe or Front Face Wireframe selected as the type you want. Then, in the lower right corner, select Preview=>Make Preview. You then select the frame range and viewpoint for the Preview, and press OK.

141682

141683

NOTE: In the MOV file, I had Limited View enabled on the Camera, which causes the yellow box and handles. As seen, the Preview is the entire view area in Layout. If you want to (approximately) match the Camera size, you'll have to shrink down the Layout width to only have the visible camera area in the view. Also, this was a Front Face Wireframe preview.

You then view the Preview with its control panel, pressing End Preview to drop the panel. The Preview is kept until you press Free Preview. The Prevew can be saved with Save Preview as an animation file (type defined in the Prevew Options panel), e.g. an AVI with Microsoft-1 encoding, or uncompressed frames if desired.

Sadly, the Save RGB functionality in the Preview Options doesn't work for anything but VPR mode, which eliminates the value of the speedy Wireframe render. I'll have to check if LW2015 would save Wireframe previews.

I should note that there is an Edges buffer available in the Render Properties panel, so you can set up a "formal" Edges rendering if needed but it requires substantially more setup than the Preview method. If you want, I can detail the method for doing so if the Preview functionality doesn't meet your needs.

mTp

prometheus
05-13-2018, 02:29 PM
I think what jaxtone is looking for is the LW2015 pulldown in the Render Properties which allowed the render to be performed in Realistic, Quick Shade or Wireframe. Wireframe and Quick Shade are nice for previewing item motions and visualization without having to wait for a Realistic render.

Sadly, it looks like this isn't directly available in LW2018. I think the best way would be to use the Preview functionality. Set up the Layout view the way you want it, with Wireframe or Front Face Wireframe selected as the type you want. Then, in the lower right corner, select Preview=>Make Preview. You then select the frame range and viewpoint for the Preview, and press OK.

141682

141683

NOTE: In the MOV file, I had Limited View enabled on the Camera, which causes the yellow box and handles. As seen, the Preview is the entire view area in Layout. If you want to (approximately) match the Camera size, you'll have to shrink down the Layout width to only have the visible camera area in the view. Also, this was a Front Face Wireframe preview.

You then view the Preview with its control panel, pressing End Preview to drop the panel. The Preview is kept until you press Free Preview. The Prevew can be saved with Save Preview as an animation file (type defined in the Prevew Options panel), e.g. an AVI with Microsoft-1 encoding, or uncompressed frames if desired.

Sadly, the Save RGB functionality in the Preview Options doesn't work for anything but VPR mode, which eliminates the value of the speedy Wireframe render. I'll have to check if LW2015 would save Wireframe previews.

I should note that there is an Edges buffer available in the Render Properties panel, so you can set up a "formal" Edges rendering if needed but it requires substantially more setup than the Preview method. If you want, I can detail the method for doing so the Preview functionality doesn't meet your needs.

mTp

That wouldnīt work per surface basis, and it wouldnt work with subpatches either, but anyways, that option seem gone in 2018 as you said.

jaxtone
05-14-2018, 12:47 AM
I am so thankful for you efforts in helping! When it comes to the nodal hierarchy I guess its ok for more advanced alternatives but to make something traditionally quite easy quite so difficult is a riddle. I do not get the point. How have you developers been thinking?

I'm not script or code interested at all so it would be nice to have an answer from you guys who visit this thread.

I assume you who work with the design of a user interface and all behind it daily probably feels that issueas at this level are peanuts for guys with your skills and qualifications. There is only one problem. Users are not you and I know that most of us are more interested in telling stories and make our customers satisfied instead of creating understandable UI.

Personally I look forward to a future that contains instant and slide based solutions for the users where you easily can drag and drop settings to get the rough picture. The twist and tweak should hopefully come as a second phase in the pre-production but as it is now it feels like every step ahead craves ten backwards to get even the easiest pieces doable. In comparison its a lousy way to get laid :)

Now about the wired animation this thread is about I with you guys inspiration and help found an amateur based way of doing this to reach what I was looking for. I guess a more politically correct code based genius would like to burn me on a stake. But that's ok, I just want to get this done.

The first thing I did was to use modeler and set the surfaces of the container to one only. Then I imported the model into Layout I finally found out how to get rid of surfaces and reflections by turn off GI, Fog and stuff.

I set the models surface opacity to 100% and attach and image for the rest of the settings where its possible to set color and thickness of the wire frame as usual in Edges window.

Thanks for guiding me in the right direction even if its not the nodal one :)

prometheus
05-14-2018, 11:57 AM
I am so thankful for you efforts in helping! When it comes to the nodal hierarchy I guess its ok for more advanced alternatives but to make something traditionally quite easy quite so difficult is a riddle. I do not get the point. How have you developers been thinking?

I'm not script or code interested at all so it would be nice to have an answer from you guys who visit this thread.

I assume you who work with the design of a user interface and all behind it daily probably feels that issueas at this level are peanuts for guys with your skills and qualifications. There is only one problem. Users are not you and I know that most of us are more interested in telling stories and make our customers satisfied instead of creating understandable UI.

Personally I look forward to a future that contains instant and slide based solutions for the users where you easily can drag and drop settings to get the rough picture. The twist and tweak should hopefully come as a second phase in the pre-production but as it is now it feels like every step ahead craves ten backwards to get even the easiest pieces doable. In comparison its a lousy way to get laid :)

Now about the wired animation this thread is about I with you guys inspiration and help found an amateur based way of doing this to reach what I was looking for. I guess a more politically correct code based genius would like to burn me on a stake. But that's ok, I just want to get this done.

The first thing I did was to use modeler and set the surfaces of the container to one only. Then I imported the model into Layout I finally found out how to get rid of surfaces and reflections by turn off GI, Fog and stuff.

I set the models surface opacity to 100% and attach and image for the rest of the settings where its possible to set color and thickness of the wire frame as usual in Edges window.

Thanks for guiding me in the right direction even if its not the nodal one :)


I think I have misunderstood you, I thought you wanted to break apart so that you could have wireframe per a specific surface, but it seems you just wanted everything with wires? and only wires without the surface.
In such case it would have been easy to advice and just check edges in render buffers, it will then render out the edges to a special buffer, see image, and it would of course also render out the surface, so there would be no need of changing surfaces ..since the edges settings apply to the whole mesh, a different story though if the object is constructed by several layers.

So render it out with edge checked in render buffers, and check the rendered edge pass in the render windows buffer drop down list.
Finally render out to a format like png sequences, and open in after effects or fusion(fusion automaticly reads the sequenc) and mix the main render with the wire render..with gradient effects etc to get a cool model structure/construction presentation.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141690&d=1526320545

jaxtone
05-14-2018, 02:27 PM
Thanks!

I did almost the same but have to learn more about render passes done at the same render session. I am kind of a dumb old fashioned man and have always rendered them out separately.

I usually use tga 32 bit image sequences and made a mistake by accepting the png solution that Lightwave 2018 had in its default settings. It was just a 24 bit image and impossible to use.

But things going forward here much thanks to you guys. Salute!


I think I have misunderstood you, I thought you wanted to break apart so that you could have wireframe per a specific surface, but it seems you just wanted everything with wires? and only wires without the surface.
In such case it would have been easy to advice and just check edges in render buffers, it will then render out the edges to a special buffer, see image, and it would of course also render out the surface, so there would be no need of changing surfaces ..since the edges settings apply to the whole mesh, a different story though if the object is constructed by several layers.

So render it out with edge checked in render buffers, and check the rendered edge pass in the render windows buffer drop down list.
Finally render out to a format like png sequences, and open in after effects or fusion(fusion automaticly reads the sequenc) and mix the main render with the wire render..with gradient effects etc to get a cool model structure/construction presentation.

prometheus
05-15-2018, 10:08 AM
Thanks!

I did almost the same but have to learn more about render passes done at the same render session. I am kind of a dumb old fashioned man and have always rendered them out separately.

I usually use tga 32 bit image sequences and made a mistake by accepting the png solution that Lightwave 2018 had in its default settings. It was just a 24 bit image and impossible to use.

But things going forward here much thanks to you guys. Salute!

I used to use 32 bit tga often, but more and more png..there is both 24 and 32 bit options for that.
What other composition software do you use or plan to use?

jaxtone
05-15-2018, 11:09 PM
Yeah I know that Lightwave have a lot of different image solutions for rendering. Strange enough they chose the 24 bit png as a default setting in Lightwave 3D 2018 and I didn't notice that before all render was done. In that case they could as well have put a png 23 bit solution as standard since it also is totally useless in the composite process. This is of course a mistake you make once so its not really a big deal but I do not understand why they wanted that format to be a start point in the render option window?

There might be beginners that do not understand the difference between 24 or 32 bit solutions that render a lot of stuff before they notice that they can forget about using the material in a composite in post!

I mostly use After Effects nowadays or shall I say since at least 2003. I had it already in the end of the 90's but since it crashed with the pinnacle graphic card more than it worked I used alternative software and methods and sometimes even had to render whole scenes in Lightwave. One period I ran a company with some young guys and we invested in Avid with AVID DS as a tool which I experienced expensive and slow! Heard from a developer that had connections with the big production houses in LA that they all had AVID DS to show off for customers with high accounts but that the employees worked on PC:s with After FX as a life saver to keep up with deadlines.

I believe that After Effects have improved a lot since than and that most third party developers like 3D Element and Red Giant with Peter Norrbys Trapcode is brilliant add-ons.


I used to use 32 bit tga often, but more and more png..there is both 24 and 32 bit options for that.
What other composition software do you use or plan to use?