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ianr
05-12-2018, 09:08 AM
141654


............................ LW 2018-- A MAGAZINE REVIEW ****


Lo & Behold, a double page review of LightWave 2018 appears in issue no 79 (June) of 3DARTIST Mag.
Well, for LW3DG it has some marketing bonus here as the magazines ever up beat, inquisitive editor
Carrie Mok has put emblazoned this review with the seal of starred approval.
I for one, was worried if 2018 would ever gain magazine space, but Andrew Combs review is deftly done.
Just enough vibe on update facts and kudos tempered by the concerns of user /up-graders creates a very
good balance that does not put you off.
His measured statements mark this out as the best LightWave review in a long time, as I shuddered over
the angst expressed in some past reviews.
Mark this, if you can get a copy, support the magazine (paper or electronic) it’s a good read, it comes in
English and Italian (S.A.) versions.
Shown here with the main text blurred for copyright reasons gives you a visual flavour of pages 82/83.
All of us wanted the word spread of this new release so to paraphrase: Houston you’ve got exposure!
With a sigh of relief for a positive outcome, the door is open for 3DARTIST Mag to carry LW Plug-ins reviews
again,which I discussed with Carrie earlier in this year, well done all round.

(also on lightwiki):lwicon:

daforum
05-12-2018, 02:07 PM
This is great to see and a positive for LW too.
Hopefully more companies will start to use LW again, which means more work for us starving LW'ers!

50one
05-12-2018, 03:15 PM
Good stuff for sure!

Ztreem
05-12-2018, 03:51 PM
The score seems a little bit too high? What would you give maya, houdini, 3dsmax, c4d and blender if they would be on the same measuring system? 5 on everything? Lw has many features but compared to other popular 3d apps it is lacking a lot, so how come it gets 4 out of 5?
Note: I have not red the review, I just looked at the score in the the attached image.

erikals
05-12-2018, 03:59 PM
Long Live LightWave! :king:

https://i.imgur.com/fW5JXGo.png

50one
05-12-2018, 04:25 PM
The score seems a little bit too high? What would you give maya, houdini, 3dsmax, c4d and blender if they would be on the same measuring system? 5 on everything? Lw has many features but compared to other popular 3d apps it is lacking a lot, so how come it gets 4 out of 5?
Note: I have not red the review, I just looked at the score in the the attached image.

Dunno, but maybe in doing what's best at, rather than everything?

scallahan1
05-12-2018, 05:55 PM
If ever I had a good reason to make a rare visit to my Barnes & Noble store, this is it. I want a print copy of this one. :)

Steve

Edit: Just peeked at the online version and it says the Issue number is 119.

erikals
05-12-2018, 06:10 PM
regarding 4 stars, it is relative.

i mean, it really depends on what the areas of expertise should be. it can be judged based on, for example >
-a general app
-a Motion Graphics friendly app
-a cheap app
-the render engine
-the node editor w/materials
-the cost
-the upgrade cost
-combinations of the above and other factors
etc, etc, etc...

it depends on who sets the standards/qualifications.
i'm ok with 4 stars.

hrgiger
05-12-2018, 07:58 PM
The score seems a little bit too high? What would you give maya, houdini, 3dsmax, c4d and blender if they would be on the same measuring system? 5 on everything? Lw has many features but compared to other popular 3d apps it is lacking a lot, so how come it gets 4 out of 5?
Note: I have not red the review, I just looked at the score in the the attached image.

well LW is the only 3D app out of all the big apps that Andrew uses so of course he's going to rate it high.

Signal to Noise
05-12-2018, 09:03 PM
Thanks for the head's up. I planned to buy this magazine when it goes on sale for half price thru Newsstand, usually a few times a year. But since the LW review is included I'll just cough up the chump change now. Admittedly I'm really interested in this June issue for the Houdini/Clarisse tutorials.

djwaterman
05-12-2018, 10:17 PM
well LW is the only 3D app out of all the big apps that Andrew uses so of course he's going to rate it high.

True that, a little biased for sure, although perhaps he mentions that in his review (don't know haven't read it). I can't find this magazine anywhere these days, I think all the news agencies here finally figured out it's not a PC or gaming magazine and have fazed it out.

ianr
05-13-2018, 07:22 AM
If ever I had a good reason to make a rare visit to my Barnes & Noble store, this is it. I want a print copy of this one. :)

Steve

Edit: Just peeked at the online version and it says the Issue number is 119.

Your RIGHT My Rushing BAD .......... it IS141668 issue no119 June


GEN NOTE 2 all.

It's a good excuse to BUY a Copy how CAN U Disagree/Bias/Mope about until U read Andrew's Copy. Dudes + pos up needed

Anyway LW3DG are pleased it happened

erikals
05-13-2018, 08:39 AM
LightWave 2018 is likely King of the Hill when it comes to >
1000 Render nodes combined with an ease of use node editor for shading

one could argue that feature alone deserves 5 stars
combine that with the price of LightWave, and it is 5+ stars


it all depends on how you look at it.


4 stars might seem high, 3 might seem too little,
if LightWave excels in One area, that makes it worth it to use it, versus cost or upgrade cost, it would be kinda strange to give it 2 stars (imo)


anyway, yep, we all know LightWave has major lacks in several areas. nothing new.
sit down and enjoy the ride, or, don't.

Ztreem
05-13-2018, 09:21 AM
LightWave 2018 is likely King of the Hill when it comes to >
1000 Render nodes combined with an ease of use node editor for shading

one could argue that feature alone deserves 5 stars
combine that with the price of LightWave, and it is 5+ stars


it all depends on how you look at it.


4 stars might seem high, 3 might seem too little,
if LightWave excels in One area, that makes it worth it to use it, versus cost or upgrade cost, it would be kinda strange to give it 2 stars (imo)


anyway, yep, we all know LightWave has major lacks in several areas. nothing new.
sit down and enjoy the ride, or, don't.

No, Blender is both cheaper and better value imho. I don’t enjoy the ride and that’s also why I don’t upgrade to 2018.

erikals
05-13-2018, 09:29 AM
i can see that. the app you are talking about has an alright surface node editor.

the point is, again, that it is what you personally needs that counts.

for example if smoke fluids sucks in app X, then LightWave is the best way go. for some.

Wickedpup
05-13-2018, 09:45 AM
The score seems a little bit too high? What would you give maya, houdini, 3dsmax, c4d and blender if they would be on the same measuring system? 5 on everything? Lw has many features but compared to other popular 3d apps it is lacking a lot, so how come it gets 4 out of 5?
Note: I have not red the review, I just looked at the score in the the attached image.
I agree. 4 out of 5 stars on features is too high IMO. Somewhere between 2 and 3 sounds more realistic to me.

tyrot
05-13-2018, 10:17 AM
well LW is the only 3D app out of all the big apps that Andrew uses so of course he's going to rate it high.

who would review the lightwave? you ?

hrgiger
05-13-2018, 02:21 PM
who would review the lightwave? you ?

Not at all. Not much about the new release interests me so it should be at least someone interested in testing the stability, reliability or performance of the new features yet at the same time have some reasonable experience in other 3D apps to know how it fares in general to other implementations which most of the new features of 2018 exist in one form or another in most of the other 3D apps out there.

erikals
05-13-2018, 03:48 PM
agh.

lardbros
05-13-2018, 04:00 PM
Nice and positive review, and I think the scoring seems spot on.
I'm really enjoying using 2018, and there are features and bug fixes for everyone.
Will have a read of this when I get into the office.

tyrot
05-13-2018, 04:21 PM
Not at all. Not much about the new release interests me .

so not the application but the review and the reviewer interests you ?

hrgiger
05-13-2018, 04:31 PM
so not the application but the review and the reviewer interests you ?

I didn't say the application, I said the latest release doesn't interest me.

samurai_x
05-14-2018, 04:04 AM
who would review the lightwave? you ?

Anybody who is not a fanboy and not someone who just got a job recently. Lol
Hrgiger actually has stopped being a fanboy so he could review it.
And paper magazine? People still buy magazines? :D
Youtube it.

kyuzo
05-14-2018, 06:27 AM
Good to see a review. I still subscribe to 3D World, but I must have missed their review...

ianr
05-15-2018, 09:33 AM
Anybody who is not a fanboy and not someone who just got a job recently. Lol
Hrgiger actually has stopped being a fanboy so he could review it.
And paper magazine? People still buy magazines? :D
Youtube it.


Soo dry, Sam-o-rye, such Rye comments, ha,

at least its was not a Car-Crash in marketing

terms like the 11* series one nearly was.

Smell that paper!


P.S. what's happening with Batman Ninja guys?

RPSchmidt
05-15-2018, 12:44 PM
Soo dry, Sam-o-rye, such Rye comments, ha,

at least its was not a Car-Crash in marketing

terms like the 11* series one nearly was.

Smell that paper!


P.S. what's happening with Batman Ninja guys?

Batman Ninja is out... I bought it on Vudu last month.

bobakabob
05-15-2018, 02:16 PM
I agree. 4 out of 5 stars on features is too high IMO. Somewhere between 2 and 3 sounds more realistic to me.

Why do you still use Lightwave? It would be nice to see you post some work :-)

Wickedpup
05-15-2018, 03:46 PM
Do you say that to everyone? Or only those that says something you disagree with? Probably the latter, right?
And 4 out of 5 on features.....I would place Maya and Houdini at the top, but I would not give any app 5 so THEY would be 4 or 4,5.....and LW has SOME cathing up to do.

bobakabob
05-15-2018, 04:07 PM
Do you say that to everyone? Or only those that says something you disagree with? Probably the latter, right?
And 4 out of 5 on features.....I would place Maya and Houdini at the top, but I would not give any app 5 so THEY would be 4 or 4,5.....and LW has SOME cathing up to do.

You seem to conveniently disregard the extraordinarily high price / subs of these apps relative to Lightwave.
Plus you didn’t answer my questions...

tyrot
05-15-2018, 04:07 PM
Anybody who is not a fanboy and not someone who just got a job recently. Lol
Hrgiger actually has stopped being a fanboy so he could review it.
And paper magazine? People still buy magazines? :D
Youtube it.

thanks for your expert opinion it was really needed..

jasonwestmas
05-15-2018, 04:40 PM
If all you need it to model and render a scene definitely a solid 4 stars. It's a good workflow with few bumps in that regard.

Ztreem
05-15-2018, 05:27 PM
Do you say that to everyone? Or only those that says something you disagree with? Probably the latter, right?
And 4 out of 5 on features.....I would place Maya and Houdini at the top, but I would not give any app 5 so THEY would be 4 or 4,5.....and LW has SOME cathing up to do.

I agree.

Ztreem
05-15-2018, 05:33 PM
You seem to conveniently disregard the extraordinarily high price / subs of these apps relative to Lightwave.
Plus you didn’t answer my questions...

Features and price has no connection if you just compare feature set.

samurai_x
05-15-2018, 11:44 PM
Batman Ninja is out... I bought it on Vudu last month.

It was horrible. I don't know why they made it so cheesy. I couldn't even finish watching it. Probably one of my top 10 worst anime of all time. I don't watch a lot but this one deserves top 10.

Wickedpup
05-16-2018, 12:01 AM
You seem to conveniently disregard the extraordinarily high price / subs of these apps relative to Lightwave.
Plus you didn’t answer my questions...
As already pointed out we were talking features.....and price isn´t a part of that.
And I use LW for the parts it stil is good at...using several apps is quite common nowadays so I'm not sure what it is that irks you about that.

hrgiger
05-16-2018, 02:11 AM
You seem to conveniently disregard the extraordinarily high price / subs of these apps relative to Lightwave.


Well that comes at the cost of slower development and less R+D for innovative features. Its not surprising Newtek had to let go of Mark, Lino, Jo and Rob. We can't even afford a person to do a monthly newsletter any longer.

TheLexx
05-16-2018, 03:05 AM
C'mon hrgiger, that's a bit mischievous surely. :) We don't really know what happened re Rob and Lino (and I do miss them). To be a bit mischievous myself, the Blender thread on the Modo forum just grows and grows. :)

Cageman
05-16-2018, 04:26 AM
Not at all. Not much about the new release interests me so it should be at least someone interested in testing the stability, reliability or performance of the new features yet at the same time have some reasonable experience in other 3D apps to know how it fares in general to other implementations which most of the new features of 2018 exist in one form or another in most of the other 3D apps out there.

It is, by far, the most stable version of LW to date. Maybe Andrew took my word for it when we used it in a real production side by side with Houdini? Oh, and it was during BETA as well. It would have been impossible for us to use any other version of LW for that project. In fact, LW 2018 is the reason we looked at LW again, since we had moved away from it. Now it is part of our pipeline again.

Wickedpup
05-16-2018, 04:38 AM
To be a bit mischievous myself, the Blender thread on the Modo forum just grows and grows. :)

That is only because it is allowed to grow....as opposed to having the life snuffed out of it because it is conventiently labelled "advertising for a competing product" :hey: :p

Chris S. (Fez)
05-16-2018, 07:19 AM
Blender trolls have universally overstayed their welcome and disrespected their hosts here and elsewhere. I would just assume Modo and Max forums follow Newtek's lead and ban Blender from their dedicated discussion boards.

SBowie
05-16-2018, 07:42 AM
Well that comes at the cost of slower development and less R+D for innovative features. Its not surprising Newtek had to let go of Mark, Lino, Jo and Rob. We can't even afford a person to do a monthly newsletter any longer.FYI, some of this, at the very least, is not true. I won't say which bit, because it would be unprofessional to do so. So I'll just make the point that supposition and gossip do not equal fact, and lacking fact it would be good to refrain from posting as though it were.

SBowie
05-16-2018, 07:47 AM
... because it is conventiently labelled "advertising for a competing product" :hey: :pBah humbug. Yes, advertising for a competing product does get 'snuffed out', as does "conveniently" veiled trolling and subversion. Anything with practical value genuinely related to the purpose of these forums is let stand, regardless of whether it mentions another product or not. However, fanboys of some other product who just want license to endlessly praise their favorite software are in the wrong forum.

This is not only forum policy, it is the clear wish of the majority of members, who come here to discuss and learn about their own favorite 3D app (LW) in a congenial environment, and want to do so without being subjected to opportunistic sniping by those who have made other choices.

hrgiger
05-16-2018, 01:59 PM
Bah humbug. Yes, advertising for a competing product does get 'snuffed out', as does "conveniently" veiled trolling and subversion. Anything with practical value genuinely related to the purpose of these forums is let stand, regardless of whether it mentions another product or not. However, fanboys of some other product who just want license to endlessly praise their favorite software are in the wrong forum.

This is not only forum policy, it is the clear wish of the majority of members, who come here to discuss and learn about their own favorite 3D app (LW) in a congenial environment, and want to do so without being subjected to opportunistic sniping by those who have made other choices.

Just as you have labled my post as erroneous above, will have to do the same here with yours. I mean, I use many applications so to just suggest I (or anyone else) am hanging around for opportunistic sniping or because I'm a fanboy of something else is not only wrong, but just about approaching a personal attack (which I did think was against forum rules...). I've bought every version of LW up until now, just because I'm not enamored by the latest release of LW doesn't mean I'm not genuinely interested in what transpires after this release. If Newtek doesn't like criticism of the way they handle LightWave currently, maybe they should strive to do better.

hrgiger
05-16-2018, 02:05 PM
It is, by far, the most stable version of LW to date. Maybe Andrew took my word for it when we used it in a real production side by side with Houdini? Oh, and it was during BETA as well. It would have been impossible for us to use any other version of LW for that project. In fact, LW 2018 is the reason we looked at LW again, since we had moved away from it. Now it is part of our pipeline again.

Maybe you should have written the review then.

As far as LW 2018 being the most stable release of LW yet, well, that certainly wasn't my experience from the get go when I had the 30 day trial in January. This was after the last year when nothing appeared to be happening with LW, that thing should have been rock solid out of the gate with all the time beta testers had to run it through the paces and yet it was not. Maybe after 4 service releases it is more stable who knows. I just know there's not much there after 3 years.

SBowie
05-16-2018, 02:36 PM
Just as you have labled my post as erroneous above, will have to do the same here with yours. I mean, I use many applications so to just suggest I (or anyone else) am hanging around for opportunistic sniping or because I'm a fanboy of something else is not only wrong, but just about approaching a personal attack (which I did think was against forum rules...).I am 100% certain I was not replying to you, nor having you or really anyone in particular in mind when writing. What I wrote is a generality - which I stand by, mind you. To suggest that no-one has ever hung around in here for the purpose of opportunistic sniping is just insupportable, and would require a generosity approaching credulity that I simply can't achieve.

bobakabob
05-16-2018, 03:27 PM
What software isn’t unstable after updates? I use Maya for work and the forums make interesting reading. There have been timely LW fixes since release so can anyone really make an informed judgement on a 30 day trial in that regard? Maybe the trial should be longer as with ZBrush. So it goes.

The renderer is a huge step forward and worth the price of upgrade alone. It’s very close to Arnold. Can you really expect much better? Side by side comparisons, swapping out scenes hold up very well. Not bad for a cheap upgrade with no subs.

Then there are the under the hood changes. We’re already seeing corrective morphing and animated sculpting (albeit in a plugin which thankfully is good value). If you animate, Genoma is a godsend. Even Maya doesn’t have a pro built in autorigger (Quickrig which doesn’t even have digits or footroll doesn’t count).

Yes, Modeler, once LW’s great strength has really fallen behind so that is definitely good reason to dock a star in a review. The only way to modernise it is to add 3rd Powers tools and LWCad, but these are cheap good quality tools which radically enhance creative workflow. If you’re really serious about modelling and texturing you use Zbrush.

Andrew’s article is sound and one look at his artwork and technical knowledge is enough to qualify him as an informed incisive reviewer.

Hence my curiosity regarding the constant whining that goes on here from certain sources who rarely if ever share links to their work or the merest glimpse of creativity.

Wickedpup
05-16-2018, 03:54 PM
Hence my curiosity regarding the constant whining that goes on here from certain sources who rarely if ever share links to their work or the merest glimpse of creativity.
And there you answered my question.....it is only those "whiners", people who rub you the wrong way because you disagree with them, whose work you seem to request to see. Not the cheerleaders, fanboys or people who happens to share your POV. Now, why is that? (Just curious if you know the answer to that question?)

bobakabob
05-16-2018, 04:16 PM
There are plenty folk with constructive views both positive and negative about software you’d be more inclined to take seriously because firstly you can see what they actually do with it and secondly they contribute knowledge to the community. So Andrew is qualified more than most to write a review about LW.

Was it Wilde who said, “It is a truth universally acknowledged that trolls rarely if ever share links to their work.”?

Wickedpup
05-16-2018, 05:22 PM
There are plenty folk with constructive views both positive and negative about software you’d be more inclined to take seriously because firstly you can see what they actually do with it and secondly they contribute knowledge to the community. So Andrew is qualified more than most to write a review about LW.

Was it Wilde who said, “It is a truth universally acknowledged that trolls rarely if ever share links to their work.”?

And when did I speak of Andrews qualifications? For certain nowhere in this thread.......I only disagreed with his score on features (with a capitalized IMO)....but clearly that opinion makes me a troll according to you. Now, what does that make you, I wonder?

And knowing what features are available or not in a software compared to another is not reflected in my capabilities and skill level with them.....all it requires is a bit of reading. Point being that I haven´t used Maya much (as an example)....but I know enough about it to rank it higher than LW. Same would go for Houdini.

samurai_x
05-17-2018, 12:43 AM
Here's some other reviews and thoughts from non-lw users and ex lw users.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=1486793

https://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/128032/lightwave-3d-blog-update?page=13

tyrot
05-17-2018, 03:12 AM
yes please read LW reviews from non-lw users ... hahaha!

Cageman
05-17-2018, 03:28 AM
Here's some other reviews and thoughts from non-lw users and ex lw users.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=1486793

https://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/128032/lightwave-3d-blog-update?page=13


Overall, fairly positive responses.

TheLexx
05-17-2018, 03:34 AM
Here's some other reviews and thoughts from non-lw users and ex lw users.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=1486793
https://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/128032/lightwave-3d-blog-update?page=13I think it is fairly easy to dismiss any negativity there - one guy says "I think, I'll hold until Lightwave 19 or even 20" - a bit fickle, no ? If LW2018 had simply never come out, would some people actually breathe relief that they could finally focus on all that "better" software out there ? Since LW is a generalist app - I think Rob described it "for one guy to do it all end to end" - it is not going to be all things for every specific scenario. So other specialized software might be able to solve some problems in a simpler step than LW, but we'd be getting into a chicken and egg thing there. That's what I don't really get when someone kindly makes a LW plugin, only for others to say "Shoulda been incorporated in native LW from the beginning". But I don't necessarily think it is right to flag people up for not posting work because that gets into criticizing someone's work with an altogether different motive, which can escalate and is not a good place to go. :)

Wickedpup
05-17-2018, 03:51 AM
yes please read LW reviews from non-lw users ... hahaha!
Non-LW users....ex-LW users....all potential customers if you ask me. So ignoring their perception of LW sounds like a daft business advice.:twak:

ianr
05-17-2018, 06:30 AM
I posit this
If you slang off a Review or PlugIn or a Release
While openly admitting not looking trying or Buying it !

Then by the Laws of Discord you Are being Abusive & an Disruptional S.O.B.

Time for a 6 month Ban & Posts that where pertinent filleted out permanently.
I am fedup of Disrailer's hijacking posts like this .......IT IS time to act.

My thoughts Quote from Orginal Post
I for one, was worried if 2018 would ever gain magazine space, but Andrew Combs review is deftly done.
Just enough vibe on update facts and kudos tempered by the concerns of user /up-graders creates a very
good balance that does not put you off.

Thats enough for any sane person to get a grip on the Review?
Maybe we all need a clean bill of Mental Health & proof of Medii's
from our Doctors before we can post in the future.

Another spoilt experience for me. lol

Renee on Lightwiki has it right, quote "Don't Whine..Press F9"

RPSchmidt
05-17-2018, 07:28 AM
It was horrible. I don't know why they made it so cheesy. I couldn't even finish watching it. Probably one of my top 10 worst anime of all time. I don't watch a lot but this one deserves top 10.

LOL... I haven't seen it yet, but luckily I didn't buy it solely for the story :)

SBowie
05-17-2018, 07:50 AM
If you slang off a Review or PlugIn or a Release
While openly admitting not looking trying or Buying it !

Then by the Laws of Discord you Are being Abusive & an Disruptional S.O.B.With my member's hat on and my badge in the drawer for a moment, while I am sympathetic to those who are bone weary of a handful of people raining on every tiny little glimmer of sunshine, I think some who have taken a contrary position have, in fact, tried the release and just honestly disagree with such a high rating.

Some doubtless compare LW to their preferred product, and - supposing that even that isn't perfect - imagine that they might give their fave 4 stars at best ... necessarily resulting in LW being further down the scale. Now, I have not read the review, nor (to be perfectly transparent) have I even installed 2018 yet ... all work, no play. All the same, though I think I'm about as much of an optimistic, glass-half full guy as anyone, I was initially a little surprised to see a 4 star rating, too. On reflection, after glancing at the summary box, it seems to me that the reviewer's assessment is not terribly unreasonable in the sense that - while anyone would admit there are things about LW that can be frustrating - it most assuredly still packs a lot of punch, and continues to be a great value.

Now, someone might pop up to say 'Not compared to Blender, it isn't. It's crazy to say it provides better value than a free app!'. To this I would say two things. First, clearly not everyone would agree, the reviewer has a right to his view. More importantly, though, this wasn't a LW/Blender shootout - it's a LW review, and in the eyes of the reviewer LW showed itself to offer very good value. The more I think of it that way, the more I agree. Some won't, but that was kind of inevitable, no?

So, the point of all this is that imho most who disagree with the article are offering their honest view. And probably this wouldn't do much more than promote a spirited discussion, were it not for the fact that a few members have established a clear and convincing pattern of reacting negatively to pretty much everything. And most here are very, very tired of it, so at times may be inclined to throw them all into the same bucket and drop it at the curb for pickup.

bobakabob
05-17-2018, 07:58 AM
I posit this
If you slang off a Review or PlugIn or a Release
While openly admitting not looking trying or Buying it !

Then by the Laws of Discord you Are being Abusive & an Disruptional S.O.B.

Time for a 6 month Ban & Posts that where pertinent filleted out permanently.
I am fedup of Disrailer's hijacking posts like this .......IT IS time to act.

My thoughts Quote from Orginal Post
I for one, was worried if 2018 would ever gain magazine space, but Andrew Combs review is deftly done.
Just enough vibe on update facts and kudos tempered by the concerns of user /up-graders creates a very
good balance that does not put you off.

Thats enough for any sane person to get a grip on the Review?
Maybe we all need a clean bill of Mental Health & proof of Medii's
from our Doctors before we can post in the future.

Another spoilt experience for me. lol

Renee on Lightwiki has it right, quote "Don't Whine..Press F9"

Nice quote there, Ian, that says it all really :-)

SBowie
05-17-2018, 08:06 AM
Nice quote there, Ian, that says it all really :-)I'm not sure it counts quite as much when you quote yourself. ;)

Marander
05-17-2018, 10:15 AM
That's what I don't really get when someone kindly makes a LW plugin, only for others to say "Shoulda been incorporated in native LW from the beginning".

I think this is because so much base functionality needs to be covered by plugins for LW. Basically all the OD Tools (incl. Workspaces, SBAR support, Pie Menu etc.), Snapping like in LWCAD, EXR / Pass management like EXR Trader and UberPass, Weight Painting in Layout, Rigging in Layout like Rhiggit, Cage Deformer, Live Boolean, etc. Nobody expects a Fluid simulation or animated Sculpt in LW native.

Note that I have bought all these plugins and upgraded to 2018, and even if I rant sometimes that this should be base functionality, I support LW and its 3rd party developers more than most "fan boys" here (not pointing to anyone in particular).

Ztreem
05-17-2018, 10:58 AM
I think this is because so much base functionality needs to be covered by plugins for LW. Basically all the OD Tools (incl. Workspaces, SBAR support, Pie Menu etc.), Snapping like in LWCAD, EXR / Pass management like EXR Trader and UberPass, Weight Painting in Layout, Rigging in Layout like Rhiggit, Cage Deformer, Live Boolean, etc. Nobody expects a Fluid simulation or animated Sculpt in LW native.

Note that I have bought all these plugins and upgraded to 2018, and even if I rant sometimes that this should be base functionality, I support LW and its 3rd party developers more than most "fan boys" here (not pointing to anyone in particular).

Yes, I think it’s a big problem. How much have you spent after buying all those plugins? The great value of LW that people talk about just isn’t there anymore. And still after buying all these plugins you still doesn’t have a unified app with functional undo and you still lack a lot of features and workflows that you find in the other major 3d apps.

VonBon
05-17-2018, 11:00 AM
Some people just like Drama, and if they can't find it, they create it.

As far as reviews go, the opinion of a person who doesn't use the software should hold no weight, IMO.
A veteran like William Vaughn, Rebel Hill or "Da GOD", yes, their opinion would matter to me.

I haven't upgraded, not because I don't think its worth it but because the new features are not what I
need from the software at this time. I'm sure 2018 is exactly what some folk were waiting for so that
they can be more productive. Every update isn't going to be the missing piece for everyone.

When the UI gets an overhaul, mainly in how it handles list items, I'll be upgrading, because that's what I need.

VonBon
05-17-2018, 11:06 AM
I'd also like to add that I do agree with the direction LightWave is taking as far as what features to add first.

SBowie
05-17-2018, 11:06 AM
The great value of LW that people talk about just isn’t there anymore.I get that you feel that way. Clearly, some disagree - including the reviewer. It's ok, everyone need not agree with everyone else about things. Life would be pretty dull if that were the case.


And still after buying all these plugins you still doesn’t have a unified app with functional undo and you still lack a lot of features and workflows that you find in the other major 3d apps.That's true, but there would be those that contend that a) any competing app you care to name is also supported by a cast of optional add-ons of all sorts, which some would argue are virtual necessities to a greater or lesser degree, and b) this ignores the fact that there may be things about LW whose absence in other software means it continues to have more appeal to them, offsetting what you perceive as lacunae.

Marander
05-17-2018, 11:25 AM
Yes, I think it’s a big problem. How much have you spent after buying all those plugins? The great value of LW that people talk about just isn’t there anymore. And still after buying all these plugins you still doesn’t have a unified app with functional undo and you still lack a lot of features and workflows that you find in the other major 3d apps.

Yes I completely agree and I better not think how much I have spent on LW Plugins.

But I still have a soft spot for LightWave, even if I can do most things more efficiently in my main 3d app.

erikals
05-17-2018, 11:56 AM
Layout can now handle massive amounts of geometry
has a Render Engine that can be compared to Arnold
Comes with 1000 render nodes
Finally has a new rewritten Geometry Engine
has a nice upgrade price, and no damn subscription


LightWave lacks stuff, i get it, and i agree, we all agree
but painting the wall all black seems a bit ridiculous...

https://i.imgur.com/KF4CTYY.png

Marander
05-17-2018, 12:00 PM
Layout can now handle massive amounts of geometry

No it can't due to the OpenGL limitation / bottleneck, other apps don't have this issue

I agree on the subscription part tough, that's a no go for me.

Ztreem
05-17-2018, 12:07 PM
Layout can now handle massive amounts of geometry
has a Render Engine that can be compared to Arnold
Comes with 1000 render nodes
Finally has a new rewritten Geometry Engine
has a nice upgrade price, and no damn subscription


LightWave lacks stuff, i get it, and i agree, we all agree
but painting the wall all black seems a bit ridiculous...

https://i.imgur.com/KF4CTYY.png

Lol! Yes, in half the app it can handle more geometry. I don’t know if it actually hadles more than any other app.

Ztreem
05-17-2018, 12:13 PM
I get that you feel that way. Clearly, some disagree - including the reviewer. It's ok, everyone need not agree with everyone else about things. Life would be pretty dull if that were the case.

That's true, but there would be those that contend that a) any competing app you care to name is also supported by a cast of optional add-ons of all sorts, which some would argue are virtual necessities to a greater or lesser degree, and b) this ignores the fact that there may be things about LW whose absence in other software means it continues to have more appeal to them, offsetting what you perceive as lacunae.

Yes, it’s good that we all are different and like different things. I also know that we all using LW for different things and that this also affects how we judge and see the need for certain features. From my point of view LW lacks too much to get 4 out of 5 when it comes to features, but clearly the reviewer though different. It’s all ok. :D

SBowie
05-17-2018, 02:15 PM
https://i.imgur.com/KF4CTYY.pngFinally, a new LensCap plugin render for the gallery! :)

Chris S. (Fez)
05-17-2018, 02:36 PM
No it can't due to the OpenGL limitation / bottleneck, other apps don't have this issue



I hope this is not the case. Did the geo engine not address this? As discussed previously, it's odd that the 2018 marketing material mentions nothing about improved performance. I hope the power and potential of the new engine is more obvious in the next release.

Layout in 2018 is much faster than Modo on my machine and at least as fast as Max for most reasonably large scenes.

As for Modeler, I wonder if the original rumored vision of Layout ultimately becoming Modeler still applies.

SBowie
05-17-2018, 03:59 PM
I hope this is not the case. Did the geo engine not address this? As discussed previously, it's odd that the 2018 marketing material mentions nothing about improved performance. I hope the power and potential of the new engine is more obvious in the next release.

Layout in 2018 is much faster than Modo on my machine and at least as fast as Max for most reasonably large scenes.

As for Modeler, I wonder if the original rumored vision of Layout ultimately becoming Modeler still applies.I think it might be a kindly gesture to spawn this discussion off into a new thread of its own, hmmm? Thanks.

Chris S. (Fez)
05-17-2018, 04:15 PM
I think it might be a kindly gesture to spawn this discussion off into a new thread of its own, hmmm? Thanks.

Yup. Apologies.

Marander
05-17-2018, 04:27 PM
I hope this is not the case. Did the geo engine not address this? As discussed previously, it's odd that the 2018 marketing material mentions nothing about improved performance. I hope the power and potential of the new engine is more obvious in the next release.
...

Yes unfortunately thats the case.

Chris, I have noticed this several times before, you're the most neutral and fact based person to me when its about talking of LWs strenghts and weaknesses, somebody like you should be ideally review the application (to be back on topic LOL).

Chuck
05-17-2018, 05:20 PM
I think it might be a kindly gesture to spawn this discussion off into a new thread of its own, hmmm? Thanks.

Copied the appropriate posts to a new thread, and will follow up from there. :)

Cageman
05-17-2018, 05:32 PM
Yes, I think it’s a big problem. How much have you spent after buying all those plugins? The great value of LW that people talk about just isn’t there anymore. And still after buying all these plugins you still doesn’t have a unified app with functional undo and you still lack a lot of features and workflows that you find in the other major 3d apps.

In terms of cost for the additional plugins, I have probably spent about $500, in total, if I count the $275 upgrade price, that lasted until March.

EDIT: And no subscription fees to either NewTek nor the developers of the plugins.

Ztreem
05-17-2018, 06:51 PM
In terms of cost for the additional plugins, I have probably spent about $500, in total, if I count the $275 upgrade price, that lasted until March.

EDIT: And no subscription fees to either NewTek nor the developers of the plugins.

Ok!? Looked at LWCad and 3rdpowers plugins all that cost around $1000 + $295 lw upgrade its $1300. I’ll pass, too expensive for me and at work they don’t want to invest in LW so I’ll stick with Blender and C4D and LW2015...for now.

hrgiger
05-18-2018, 02:08 AM
EDIT: And no subscription fees to either NewTek nor the developers of the plugins.

Subscription discussion aside, you enjoying such low fees comes back in the way of 2-3 years of development time for LW with less features as well as a tiny number of 3rd party developers for LW because there's simply no money to be made in LW plugin development any longer.

TheLexx
05-18-2018, 02:19 AM
I prefer the term streamlined myself. :o

Tobian
05-18-2018, 03:58 AM
Constructive...
Adjective
Helping to improve; promoting further development or advancement (opposed to destructive)
Constructive criticism. ..

Well who knew, constant bitching, nagging, whining and moaning isn't 'constructive criticism'

It's just being an arsehole, not productive and destructive. How is it 'helping' exactly.

lardbros
05-18-2018, 04:40 AM
Nice to read the review the other day Andrew... I actually thought it was a fair one. You didn't gloss over the negatives, you mentioned them, and went on to show/describe the positive things that have been added in 2018. It reminded me of how much they'd done, and all during that stall period, which must have been strange.

I'm happy to support LightWave still, as I find it quicker for me to do things in than other apps. UV-ing is shonky, and I hate it, so I do that in other apps most of the time.
I also use other apps, and find them equally, if not more, infuriating to use than LW, so that's why is still stick with LW.

A lot of the people here moan, but actually, if you spend a few weeks with 3dsMax, or another application by autodesk, you'll be hankering to come back to LW after that.
Luckily, I'm in a position where I can use whatever i choose at work, whatever will get the job done... but recently having to use 3dsMax more and more for group projects, has made me realise again how nice LW is to use.

TheLexx
05-18-2018, 05:10 AM
The Pluto Station has a bit of a Space 1999 thing to it. Was that the inspiration ? I think there is a UK Expo event soon - are you speaking there Andrew ? :)

Tobian
05-18-2018, 05:45 AM
Not this year, but I should be there. Thanks :)

SBowie
05-18-2018, 06:30 AM
Hmmm ....


Member 1: 'LW is not good value because you have to spend a fortune on plugins to supplement it.'
Member 2: 'Actually, I didn't really spend very much.'
Member 3: 'Sure LW plugins are cheap, but that's also bad because yadaa yadda yadda.'

Does this seem just a tad ironic to anyone else?

I seriously think it would do everyone here good on a personal level to review their last 50 posts, and see whether they can find at least 5 that can be construed in any way as overall constructive or positive. Then ask yourself honestly whether those who seem to bristle at the preponderance of your posts don't perhaps have a bit of a point.

Cageman
05-18-2018, 08:20 AM
Subscription discussion aside, you enjoying such low fees comes back in the way of 2-3 years of development time for LW with less features as well as a tiny number of 3rd party developers for LW because there's simply no money to be made in LW plugin development any longer.

Not sure what you are on about with that statement?

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?156906-Metamorphic-for-LightWave-2018-(AnimatedSculpt-previously)

Not possible in earlier versions of LW, and from what I understand, the SDK is now allowing a whole slew of scripting capabilities that were just a dream prior to LW2018.

That said... if you are happy with other tools, then all the power to you.

bobakabob
05-18-2018, 10:12 AM
Hmmm ....


Member 1: 'LW is not good value because you have to spend a fortune on plugins to supplement it.'
Member 2: 'Actually, I didn't really spend very much.'
Member 3: 'Sure LW plugins are cheap, but that's also bad because yadaa yadda yadda.'

Does this seem just a tad ironic to anyone else?

I seriously think it would do everyone here good on a personal level to review their last 50 posts, and see whether they can find at least 5 that can be construed in any way as overall constructive or positive. Then ask yourself honestly whether those who seem to bristle at the preponderance of your posts don't perhaps have a bit of a point.

One of the most extraordinary contributions here was, to paraphrase: "I don't know Maya but it's better than Lightwave because I read about it..."

Sorry, couldn't resist. A more perceptive and insightful review would be hard to find...

samurai_x
05-18-2018, 10:42 AM
yes please read LW reviews from non-lw users ... hahaha!

Lol. Some people really can't see the big picture..

samurai_x
05-18-2018, 11:01 AM
Overall, fairly positive responses.

I think we didn't read the same reviews.
It got murdered on the Foundry forum link. The CGtalk link talks a lot about how old it is, the split, the ui then it veered to c4d talks.

Here's bugzilla's review of Lw 2018 from the Cgtalk link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TExpoCdBUpI&feature=youtu.be

Some interesting comments there. DJ Lithium is posting some interesting things to calilifestyle151.

hypersuperduper
05-18-2018, 11:07 AM
Lol. Some people really can't see the big picture.
it is VERY important what non-lw users also think of Lightwave. They are people who might buy into the product and put some cashflow to speed up development to a faster pace. The existing userbase is dwindling as it is.

They need to build from their dwindling base though. At this point I think it is primarily people that are already familiar with lw who are the primary market for the latest version. It is probably better to have someone intimately familiar with the prior versions review the software and can compare it with previous versions than someone who would compare it with other software. At this stage at least...

TheLexx
05-18-2018, 11:16 AM
I think we didn't read the same reviews.
It got murdered on the Foundry forum link.But isn't that to be expected to an extent since users of another primary software tend to have their own comfort zones, and Modo and LW have a certain shared history with a sort of sibling rivalry thing going on with some users (not all :)). LW got some stick because of staff changes, but some Modonauts are now sweating because Stuart Ferguson just left. Just ebbs and flows...

SBowie
05-18-2018, 11:22 AM
In the present context, I don't really think it matters who reviews the product, or how he/she rates it. In any conceivably combination, those at one polar extreme will explain in tedious detail why it's wrong, while those at the other end will defend it. Moderates will note anything they hadn't considered or which they disagree with, shrug, and turn the page.

Wickedpup
05-18-2018, 11:48 AM
One of the most extraordinary contributions here was, to paraphrase: "I don't know Maya but it's better than Lightwave because I read about it..."

Sorry, couldn't resist. A more perceptive and insightful review would be hard to find...
Fabulous. Leaving out context, some creative rewriting founded in a severely lacking reading comprehension, and this is what you manage to come up with? If this is an example of that creativity you talked about earlier, I would be very worried..... :neener:

pinkmouse
05-18-2018, 11:50 AM
...shrug, and turn the page.
Your Mod superpowers failed, Steve, this is the first post on the page, I might miss something exciting if I do that now!

SBowie
05-18-2018, 01:46 PM
Your Mod superpowers failed, Steve, this is the first post on the page, I might miss something exciting if I do that now!Welp ... I really meant "page" as in "page in the magazine" ... but have it your way. ;)

hrgiger
05-18-2018, 02:35 PM
Not sure what you are on about with that statement?

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?156906-Metamorphic-for-LightWave-2018-(AnimatedSculpt-previously)

Not possible in earlier versions of LW, and from what I understand, the SDK is now allowing a whole slew of scripting capabilities that were just a dream prior to LW2018.

That said... if you are happy with other tools, then all the power to you.

What im on about is that there is no money to be made in 3rd party development for lw. Viktor had to let go of his partner Miro becaise he couldnt afford to pay him because sales were so low. Oliver who makes OD tools certainly isnt living off the money he has made from that and Wolf who makes Nodemeister has said there isnt a lot of money in it. Both because of the declining number of LW users and the fact that because LW is so in expensive, LW users are notoriously cheap because they dont see the point in spending more money for a plugin then their lw upgrade costs.

These people do it because they enjoy LW. But money is what drives a healthy 3rd party environment.

hrgiger
05-18-2018, 03:01 PM
But isn't that to be expected to an extent since users of another primary software tend to have their own comfort zones, and Modo and LW have a certain shared history with a sort of sibling rivalry thing going on with some users (not all :)). LW got some stick because of staff changes, but some Modonauts are now sweating because Stuart Ferguson just left. Just ebbs and flows...

Stuart hasnt been working on Modo for some time, at least the last few years, there are newer developers working on Modo so its only nostalgia being stirred up by those users. There are almost 3 times the number of people coding for it than under Luxology

jwiede
05-18-2018, 07:32 PM
Not possible in earlier versions of LW, and from what I understand, the SDK is now allowing a whole slew of scripting capabilities that were just a dream prior to LW2018.

Correct, but also worth pointing out that is primarily due to the Python LWSDK (previously a small subset of the C/C++ LWSDK) being brought closer to parity with the existing C/C++ LWSDK, not because the overall domain of what's doable through C/C++ LWSDK has massively increased as well. Still a positive change, absolutely, but not the massive increase in overall plugin capabilities some keep suggesting has occurred.

tyrot
05-19-2018, 12:33 AM
you mean Kat ?

erikals
05-19-2018, 06:13 AM
not the massive increase in overall plugin capabilities some keep suggesting has occurred.
what specific features do you find lacking / missing?

Continuum
05-20-2018, 06:53 AM
What im on about is that there is no money to be made in 3rd party development for lw. Viktor had to let go of his partner Miro becaise he couldnt afford to pay him because sales were so low. Oliver who makes OD tools certainly isnt living off the money he has made from that and Wolf who makes Nodemeister has said there isnt a lot of money in it. Both because of the declining number of LW users and the fact that because LW is so in expensive, LW users are notoriously cheap because they dont see the point in spending more money for a plugin then their lw upgrade costs.

These people do it because they enjoy LW. But money is what drives a healthy 3rd party environment.

I find this reveals a lot about the state of the LW 3rd party economy at this point in time.

I was recently curious about the size of the Lightwave community thats active on the internet. I decided to use web search statistics to find an approximation. Lightwave search terms hits aren't as high as the other packages, actually lower than expected. Blender is number one with thousands of hits per day, while C4D has the highest amongst the commercial apps. Houdini is above Lightwave but below the rest, followed by Maya. I'm sure Lightwave numbers were higher in years past, when more content was circulating (with sites like spinquad).

Also it doesn't sound like VFX is the driving force for content creation tools, there's a huge market next to it. And of course CAD beats everything.

The only Lightwave plugin that gets any significant hits is LWCAD, so I believe the web search is a good metric of the popularity of things.

Even so support your developers, every sale counts. I'm sure they appreciate it.

It would be a wonderful way to make a living, kudos to who ever does. I also think diversifying to other applications would help achieve that. But yeah, it would be great if one could ignore everything else except Lightwave.

So it's great to see a Lightwave review in a physical magazine. I think the last one I read was ages ago, when all the applications where weighed and compared in 3D World.

erikals
05-20-2018, 07:08 AM
there are many nice LW plugins >
3rdPowers, Advanced Placement, DPont, RRTools, LWCAD, ODToolSet, RHiggit, Syflex, TAFA, Turbulence, UP/HoudiniFluids/DeepRising
and more +free ones

LightWave is not for everyone, just like Maya/Max/Blender/C4D/Modo/Houdini

see what fits your needs


I also think diversifying to other applications would help
yes  https://i.imgur.com/pWmMPnl.gif

scallahan1
05-20-2018, 06:38 PM
Oh Drat. Stopped by Barnes & Noble and I couldn't find either 3DArtist or 3DWorld on the shelves any more.
Looks like I'm buying this one online. Wonder if I buy the single issue if I'll get the download version, too. Or
does that only work for the subscription? Finding out soon.

Steve

samurai_x
05-20-2018, 10:29 PM
Modo and LW have a certain shared history with a sort of sibling rivalry thing going on with some users (not all :))

The bugzilla youtube video in earlier post has intel that Brad Peebler deleted some stuff in Lightwave before he went to form Luxology. He got sued for it by Newtek. Now that's shared history :D
That's why Lightwave is f upd till now.

Nicolas Jordan
05-21-2018, 12:05 AM
What im on about is that there is no money to be made in 3rd party development for lw. Viktor had to let go of his partner Miro becaise he couldnt afford to pay him because sales were so low. Oliver who makes OD tools certainly isnt living off the money he has made from that and Wolf who makes Nodemeister has said there isnt a lot of money in it. Both because of the declining number of LW users and the fact that because LW is so in expensive, LW users are notoriously cheap because they dont see the point in spending more money for a plugin then their lw upgrade costs.

These people do it because they enjoy LW. But money is what drives a healthy 3rd party environment.

It would be nice to see sales go up again for LWCAD. Just my opinion but I think LWCAD is one of the main reasons many still use Lightwave. Great 3rd party tools have always been Lightwaves biggest strength.

Maybe LWCAD could be bundled with every copy of Lightwave with a huge emphasis on marketing to the Arch Viz guys but I'm not sure how the details of that would work.

Marander
05-21-2018, 01:00 AM
...LWCAD is one of the main reasons many still use Lightwave...

I keep hearing this from different people.

I see the reason in the the cheap price of LW und the low budget of its users.

LWCAD works much better outside LW since quite a while. If you like LWCAD and its ArchViz tools, you want to have them in a parametric, non destructive way.

JohnMarchant
05-21-2018, 02:11 AM
I keep hearing this from different people.

I see the reason in the the cheap price of LW und the low budget of its users.

LWCAD works much better outside LW since quite a while. If you like LWCAD and its ArchViz tools, you want to have them in a parametric, non destructive way.

How do you figure that. Ive seen it running in C4D and Max and its nowhere near as comprehensive as it is in LightWave

Marander
05-21-2018, 02:56 AM
How do you figure that. Ive seen it running in C4D and Max and its nowhere near as comprehensive as it is in LightWave

I'm using the latest beta of 2018 in C4D and I'm not missing any Archviz tool. The ones that are not.in LWCAD are the ones that are part of the apps base package (like proper spline tools) and not needed in my opinion. Which LWCAD tools don't you see in the other apps?

JohnMarchant
05-21-2018, 05:54 AM
Im not running the latest Beta so i cant speak for that yet. So how much better is it than the Lite version in LWCad 5.

http://www.cgchannel.com/2017/09/wtools3d-ships-lwcad-lite-5-25/

Thing is, all of the major 3d packages rely on plugins to a greater or lesser degree. Max, Maya all have a significant plugin base, even for stuff thats actually built into them. Houdini which is one of the most expensive for the full version still has plugins although admittedly few because there is very little you cant do in it.

Its not always about cost and what someone can afford, if it were most studios would have dumped Maya years ago and gone to Houdini, thing is modeling in Houdini is a PITA, but effects are superb. Blender is free, but it also has paid plugins, take a look at Flip Fluids, thats really coming on fantastically and its also cheap for a fluid plugin. Octane has a Blender version now. If the user base is seen as big enough then developers will make plugins for it, even for free apps like Blender.

fishhead
05-21-2018, 08:19 AM
I just happen to start a new project using LW2018.0.4 from the start up and am preparing first renderings for test comps using the new buffer system and have to say - 2018 is a joy to work in! I just love the ease of adding custom buffers and the buffer management in general! So much smoother and more flexible now and a lot more elegant than even some major other renderers in other host apps I had to work with in the past ( ...won´t name them now as we all know its not nice manners, but anyway...)

Did I say, I actually dare using bruteforce GI for actual projects since the new release? Yes, I still use CPU´s as we have access to a decent CPU-based renderfarm (I also own a license of OctaneFor but it is way more cost effective for me/us using a "traditional" renderfarm for quite some time I guess...)

For me its easily a lot of stars worth in that department! ;-)

So - for me at least - there are a ton more reasons than just LWCad for still using LW!
just my 2cents...

Marander
05-21-2018, 08:19 AM
Yes true, there are plugins for all big packages with tons of goodies. But no package relies on plugins so much for basic functionality like snapping, splines, the whole OD stuff basically.

LWCAD for the other apps contain all important Archviz tools like Walls, Windows, Doors, all kind of Stairs, Roofs, Shingles and also the Primitives, Pipes, Boolean, UV Tools, UCF, Library objects etc. since LWCAD 5.5.

They are held as parametric objects and can be modified any time later. They also interact well with other objects, (native or 3rd party) generators or deformers. That allows for example to add parametric Bevels or Booleans to Walls etc.

What it doesn't contain (yet) are special Spline tools, NURBS, but they are not required anyway.

What I prefer in LWCAD for LW is that it doesn't require online activation / node locking.

erikals
05-21-2018, 12:46 PM
if you for using LightWave 5 days a week you should get LWcad
http://www.lwcad.com

hrgiger
05-22-2018, 06:35 PM
Here's an unbiased review of 2018 (review starts about 5 min in)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9vDhsmP7e0

TheLexx
05-22-2018, 07:04 PM
He makes clear it is his individual view and I do like his plain speaking manner, but to answer his puzzlement as to why anyone might ever need the LW2018 renderer over Octane or the old renderer, I would just say that being integrated into LW counts for much rather than dependant externally and it can only develop further - one day may become GPU (bearing in mind the old renderer is "only" cpu too). He is an advanced user and is essentially a good honest egg, so his opinion is always interesting to me.

tyrot
05-22-2018, 07:08 PM
totally agree on renderer... totally!!! .. biggest mistake in NT's history.. Just give away Octane licenses with future LW versions if you really wanna save this software.. Stop reinventing wheel (of renderer) just stop...!

jeric_synergy
05-22-2018, 09:46 PM
FWIW, it did seem like a mis-allocation of resources, when so many things needed to be done to Modeler, or whatever is replacing Modeler.

CaptainMarlowe
05-22-2018, 10:27 PM
Well it is clearly a matter of POV. I do like the new renderer, even if there is a lot of room for improvement, and it is the very thing that made me stick to Lightwave as I was starting to consider alternative options. And I guess I am not the only one, considering the activity on facebook.

samurai_x
05-22-2018, 11:26 PM
Well it is clearly a matter of POV. I do like the new renderer, even if there is a lot of room for improvement, and it is the very thing that made me stick to Lightwave as I was starting to consider alternative options. And I guess I am not the only one, considering the activity on facebook.

The fb lw group is a bunch of fanboys in GOD mode. :D
And its a helpline for people who want to be spoon fed how to do their work. Lol

Chris S. (Fez)
05-23-2018, 12:58 AM
Perhaps GPU support is still a possibility. The new viewports in 2018 match final renders quite nicely and I can only assume they rely on some kind of GPU-leveraging code. Dunno. Not a coder.

Asticles
05-23-2018, 01:33 AM
totally agree on renderer... totally!!! .. biggest mistake in NT's history.. Just give away Octane licenses with future LW versions if you really wanna save this software.. Stop reinventing wheel (of renderer) just stop...!

And the people that don't have the needed GPU because the scene don't fit on memory?

Qexit
05-23-2018, 03:27 AM
totally agree on renderer... totally!!! .. biggest mistake in NT's history.. Just give away Octane licenses with future LW versions if you really wanna save this software.. Stop reinventing wheel (of renderer) just stop...!Hm, with the price for a basic Octane License coming in at $589 due to this requirement:

Important! OctaneRender™ for LightWave® requires an OctaneRender™ Standalone Edition license to function. If you do not already own a Standalone Edition license then make sure to choose “OctaneRender™ for LightWave® + Standalone Combo License” below."

I would think that giving away an Octane license with future versions of LW would result in Newtek going bust which is probably not the best way to save LW :)

tyrot
05-23-2018, 04:18 AM
Hm, with the price for a basic Octane License coming in at $589 due to this requirement:

Important! OctaneRender™ for LightWave® requires an OctaneRender™ Standalone Edition license to function. If you do not already own a Standalone Edition license then make sure to choose “OctaneRender™ for LightWave® + Standalone Combo License” below."

I would think that giving away an Octane license with future versions of LW would result in Newtek going bust which is probably not the best way to save LW :)

dunno :) they gotta make a deal ... octane unity is free for 2 gpus already. they could pull out a deal ..

Also octane 4 will be a game changer memory access afaik. So GPU memory limit wont be an issue..

CaptainMarlowe
05-23-2018, 05:20 AM
The fb lw group is a bunch of fanboys in GOD mode. :D
And its a helpline for people who want to be spoon fed how to do their work. Lol

Ha, the good old troll/fanboy dichotomy. So convenient.

SBowie
05-23-2018, 07:48 AM
The fb lw group is a bunch of fanboys in GOD mode. :D
And its a helpline for people who want to be spoon fed how to do their work. LolDespite the emoticon, it's hard to see how such a condescending remark constitutes "professional and civil discourse regarding the use of NewTek products by those who own them".

Demeaning other users doesn't do much to defend your point, and really, seems to be a lot closer to "Non-constructive criticism or remarks of a malicious nature; Personal attacks against individuals", which are verboten (not to mention rude).

raymondtrace
05-23-2018, 09:40 AM
...it's hard to see how such a condescending remark...

I'm assuming it is a joke as most everyone in that fb lw group is here as well. The conversations are identical (most often mirrors of what's posted here). I suspect the FB platform is more accessible for those passing time on "the can".

Chuck
05-23-2018, 12:02 PM
Here's an unbiased review of 2018 (review starts about 5 min in)

Describing this video as unbiased is remarkably incorrect given that the overwhelming majority of time is spent on ad hominem attacks on people who have expressed any opinion about LightWave 3D 2018 that differs from his own. This video is a litany of biases, specifically character attacks on anyone who has anything good to say about LightWave 2018, and on both the character and the competence of the people at NewTek working on LightWave. The amount of time actually spent talking about LightWave itself is minimal, only momentary breaks in the stream of derisive commentary on persons, and does not include any original feedback nor is any of the video content itself directed at supporting that feedback. It's a static shot of him moving a mouse around over his YouTube page, interrupted only briefly by a static shot of him moving a mouse around over a forum page.

So, it seems likely the long stream of scorn rather than the tiny bit of actual review is why you wanted to share this. Your choice to share this while calling it an "unbiased review" does not leave much room for any interpretation other than that for you "unbiased" means opinions you agree with and "biased" means those you don't.

As someone with an interest in LightWave advancing to better meet your needs for your 3D work, please consider that slash and burn toward people with opinions that differ from your own is not going to accomplish that. As a template for civil discussion here, just say what you are dissatisfied with in the product or policies, and say you want in the product or policies and restrict your debate with others to the products and policies and not character. When you make the discussion about calling what others have to say lies and you impugn their decency and integrity, that does not strengthen your points, and in fact only erodes your own credibility and respect within the community as a whole, regardless whatever fanboys of rudeness, disrespect and incivility may be present and try to claim otherwise.

tyrot
05-23-2018, 04:00 PM
i totally share his points about new renderer. what a time waste !

So Chuck will you keep investing on new renderer ? will you reimport old renderer to LW2018 ... or how about full Octane integration ?

There are users here just for bashing LW but Bryphii is not one of them. The time and work he invested Lightwave and videos in his channels utterly valuable for current LW users.

He speaks his mind very directly (personally he cooked me several times) but this does not eliminate his immense effect of LW workflows and training.

I would rather have more Bryphii style hard core LW users than - totally biased LW bashers... Because he put lots of work into LW than many of us here. We cannot afford to lose one more user like him.

We are a dying breed and NT is not making things easy for many of us. I refuse NT's silence from now on. A clear road map - is needed especially on renderer.

bobakabob
05-23-2018, 04:39 PM
Describing this video as unbiased is remarkably incorrect given that the overwhelming majority of time is spent on ad hominem attacks on people who have expressed any opinion about LightWave 3D 2018 that differs from his own. This video is a litany of biases, specifically character attacks on anyone who has anything good to say about LightWave 2018, and on both the character and the competence of the people at NewTek working on LightWave. The amount of time actually spent talking about LightWave itself is minimal, only momentary breaks in the stream of derisive commentary on persons, and does not include any original feedback nor is any of the video content itself directed at supporting that feedback. It's a static shot of him moving a mouse around over his YouTube page, interrupted only briefly by a static shot of him moving a mouse around over a forum page.

So, it seems likely the long stream of scorn rather than the tiny bit of actual review is why you wanted to share this. Your choice to share this while calling it an "unbiased review" does not leave much room for any interpretation other than that for you "unbiased" means opinions you agree with and "biased" means those you don't.

As someone with an interest in LightWave advancing to better meet your needs for your 3D work, please consider that slash and burn toward people with opinions that differ from your own is not going to accomplish that. As a template for civil discussion here, just say what you are dissatisfied with in the product or policies, and say you want in the product or policies and restrict your debate with others to the products and policies and not character. When you make the discussion about calling what others have to say lies and you impugn their decency and integrity, that does not strengthen your points, and in fact only erodes your own credibility and respect within the community as a whole, regardless whatever fanboys of rudeness, disrespect and incivility may be present and try to claim otherwise.

Thanks, Chuck and Steve, very reasonable responses from NT, considering. This forum has always had such potential for mature constructive debate, sharing of knowledge and art. It is an invaluable source of knowledge. Unfortunately a few users take advantage of the fact you don’t run your forums like Autodesk. If you did, they would have been toast a long time ago.

The trolling from a few individuals here (some of whom contribute nothing, are quick to denigrate but don’t own the current software or understand how it works) is infantile enough for some professionals and serious users to leave the forum. Which is perversely the outcome they want. It’s not an easy one to crack as LW will only benefit from open minded debate without autocratic censorship. However, you’re well within your rights as the hosts of a forum to remind everyone of the house rules and kick a few arses if need be. You must despair sometimes. If only some users here were as reasonable and professional.

And sorry, Tyrot, yes constructive debate is essential. But ‘speaking your mind’ doesn’t always equate to ranting.

tyrot
05-23-2018, 04:52 PM
And sorry, Tyrot, yes constructive debate is essential. But ‘speaking your mind’ doesn’t equate to ranting.

ranting is pretty efficient if you look at the discussions .. we have become sensitive snowflakes... bring the noise and fire :) Something totally positive will come out from it.

SBowie
05-23-2018, 04:57 PM
ranting is pretty efficient if you look at the discussions .. we have become sensitive snowflakes... bring the noise and fire :) Something totally positive will come out from it.if you call many of the more serious Lightwave users having left the forums in recent years specifically because it was overrun by trolls positive, I guess you're right. The fact is, though, that ranting is childish. (And yes, I'm aware that there are also those who left for other reasons. For those who remain, however, we will see to it that reasonable civility is the rule.)

bobakabob
05-23-2018, 05:02 PM
@Tyrot, Well if you think shouting, ranting and unprofessional behaviour is OK, good luck with that, you might one day become a world leader. Let’s leave it there before breaking forum rules...

tyrot
05-23-2018, 05:13 PM
ok one last message to you and SBowie..

allowing toxication of a couple of totally biased - LW basher users is ok.? They simply spread words of mockery to current and ex-users in almost every positive Lightwave thread.. and they are allowed because they use a calm language?

and you say this is NOT ok ... simply ranting about very core decisions on LW's future and warning them about their collossal mistakes while doing dozens of genius level LW tutorials.

SBowie
05-23-2018, 05:25 PM
ok one last message to you and SBowie..

allowing toxication of a couple of totally biased - LW basher users is ok.? They simply spread words of mockery to current and ex-users in almost every positive Lightwave thread.. and they are allowed because they use a calm language? No, that's not ok either, and we have been engaging those who have done this much more aggressively this year, as must be clear to anyone who has been paying much attention.

Tim Parsons
05-23-2018, 08:55 PM
i totally share his points about new renderer. what a time waste !

Maybe not your thing which is fine, but for us it was time well spent - so far we love it.


So Chuck will you keep investing on new renderer ?

Valid question since they let the developer go. I would hope they would.


will you reimport old renderer to LW2018

Now in my opinion that would be a waste of time. What makes more sense is for that everybody who bought 2018 they get a complimentary copy of LW2015


... or how about full Octane integration ?

Cost prohibitive most likely for NT to undertake.


There are users here just for bashing LW but Bryphii is not one of them. The time and work he invested Lightwave and videos in his channels utterly valuable for current LW users.

He speaks his mind very directly (personally he cooked me several times) but this does not eliminate his immense effect of LW workflows and training.

I would rather have more Bryphii style hard core LW users than - totally biased LW bashers... Because he put lots of work into LW than many of us here. We cannot afford to lose one more user like him.

He has amazing knowledge of nodes and the inner workings and if I were running NT I'd bring him into San Antonio and have a sit down with him and possibly offer him a job.


We are a dying breed and NT is not making things easy for many of us. I refuse NT's silence from now on. A clear road map - is needed especially on renderer.

We very well could be. Our marketing team is transitioning to 3DS Max but mostly yo keep in lock step with vendors and their requirements.

samurai_x
05-24-2018, 12:19 AM
Despite the emoticon, it's hard to see how such a condescending remark constitutes "professional and civil discourse regarding the use of NewTek products by those who own them".



You want to read condescending remark go to the FB group and mention you still use 2015. :D
If you post anything negating their views over there the GODS basically delete your post.

Just ask Lino.......

And its basically true about people asking for help. Its pathetic that people ask for help on their own PAID work. Sometimes asking for scene files how to do it.

So I'm not really saying anything that is not true.

samurai_x
05-24-2018, 12:27 AM
Here's an unbiased review of 2018 (review starts about 5 min in)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9vDhsmP7e0

What I got from the video is that the new renderer is a waste of years of development that doesn't really offer more than what Octane is capable of speedwise. That's true even with octane turtle gpu renderer. I'd rather have Redshift.

Second is so much functionality was lost when a lot of plugins especially DP plugins are no longer supported in 2018. That's true as well.

He doesn't mention breaking major compatibility with scenes and models pre 2018. But its a big factor for many people I know. And Cress mentioned that as well in his post there.

So some people will probably focus on how the video is more about bashing Newtek but to me that got filtered out. The points he made are clear and true.

Tobian
05-24-2018, 12:35 AM
Describing this video as unbiased is remarkably incorrect given that the overwhelming majority of time is spent on ad hominem attacks on people who have expressed any opinion about LightWave 3D 2018 that differs from his own. This video is a litany of biases, specifically character attacks on anyone who has anything good to say about LightWave 2018, and on both the character and the competence of the people at NewTek working on LightWave. The amount of time actually spent talking about LightWave itself is minimal, only momentary breaks in the stream of derisive commentary on persons, and does not include any original feedback nor is any of the video content itself directed at supporting that feedback. It's a static shot of him moving a mouse around over his YouTube page, interrupted only briefly by a static shot of him moving a mouse around over a forum page.

So, it seems likely the long stream of scorn rather than the tiny bit of actual review is why you wanted to share this. Your choice to share this while calling it an "unbiased review" does not leave much room for any interpretation other than that for you "unbiased" means opinions you agree with and "biased" means those you don't.

As someone with an interest in LightWave advancing to better meet your needs for your 3D work, please consider that slash and burn toward people with opinions that differ from your own is not going to accomplish that. As a template for civil discussion here, just say what you are dissatisfied with in the product or policies, and say you want in the product or policies and restrict your debate with others to the products and policies and not character. When you make the discussion about calling what others have to say lies and you impugn their decency and integrity, that does not strengthen your points, and in fact only erodes your own credibility and respect within the community as a whole, regardless whatever fanboys of rudeness, disrespect and incivility may be present and try to claim otherwise.

Thanks for that Chuck! Quoted for agreement.

And samurai X, nope Lino's posts were not deleted by the admins, some users deleted their own comments, which deleted posts beneath them, nothing the admins can do about that. That said, yeah I will delete personal attacks, obviously.

samurai_x
05-24-2018, 12:42 AM
Thanks for that Chuck! Quoted for agreement.

And samurai X, nope Lino's posts were not deleted by the admins, some users deleted their own comments, which deleted posts beneath them, nothing the admins can do about that. That said, yeah I will delete personal attacks, obviously.

Ok so it wasn't the admins. My mistake. Thanks for clarifying.
But its not the first time someone mentioned how the Admins are in God mode over there. :D

Tobian
05-24-2018, 01:33 AM
We don't want that place to become an overspill of the toxic sludge in this forum. If you want that go ruin another lw Facebook group instead. We have enough of our own idiots there, as well as many of the above, doing the exact same stuff there. The The one difference we have is a much better fan > anti evangelist ratio, and this nonsense gets shot down more...

hrgiger
05-24-2018, 02:29 AM
You want to read condescending remark go to the FB group and mention you still use 2015. :D
If you post anything negating their views over there the GODS basically delete your post.

Just ask Lino.......

And its basically true about people asking for help. Its pathetic that people ask for help on their own PAID work. Sometimes asking for scene files how to do it.

So I'm not really saying anything that is not true.

Pretty much this. People get the sense I'm trolling but the fact is, some of us are not pleased with the direction that 2018 has taken, how long its taken us to (in my opinion) take a step backward, some of the decisions as well as a lot of the inaction on the part of Newtek (especially the last year), lack of communication, lack of seeming direction of the software, key parts of the software that have been largely neglected (i.e. modeling) and now the latest thing is that those of us who have decided that 2018 is not at a point or place that is worth upgrading to are simply just trolls or ex-LW users or people simply filled with bile or just being 'whiny b|tches' and the same people over and over try to shout down any criticism of the latest release as if they themselves did not experience the same kind of doubt that most of us felt in the last year. Now its simply a club and if you haven't decided that 2018 is the best thing since sliced bread, you aren't in it. LW users are more isolated than ever and there's only one discussion that is being allowed anymore and that's praise of 2018.

TheLexx
05-24-2018, 02:31 AM
Bryphi's get-out clause is that he takes it to his own space on Youtube rather than being confrontational here. Criticism here is one thing, but often descends into the cliche of "Newtek could do so much better....yeah, if only they'd listen to Meee...." Then a mod intervenes, only for someone to think "Great, he's out of his lair, let's poke this with a stick". That becomes the recurring script for some threads. Surely infrastructure is preferable to chaos, so at the risk of being that kid who keeps sucking up to the teacher, bottom line is LW belongs to NT, period, and even the unnameable (cough, Blender :)) will break plugins in favour of development.

(EDIT not particularly aimed at you hrgiger, we posted close to each other)

SBowie
05-24-2018, 07:52 AM
So I'm not really saying anything that is not true.Supposing you were correct, which is a big leap - this does not make what you are saying appropriate. Who appointed you judge of all the earth, and who invited you to use these forums to deliver your opinion on everyone else - forums which, I remind you, "exist primarily to facilitate professional and civil discourse regarding the use of NewTek products by those who own them"?

SBowie
05-24-2018, 07:57 AM
Pretty much this. People get the sense I'm trolling but the fact is, some of us are not pleased with the direction that 2018 has taken, how long its taken us to (in my opinion) take a step backward, some of the decisions as well as a lot of the inaction on the part of Newtek (especially the last year), lack of communication, lack of seeming direction of the software, key parts of the software that have been largely neglected (i.e. modeling) and now the latest thing is that those of us who have decided that 2018 is not at a point or place that is worth upgrading to are simply just trolls or ex-LW users or people simply filled with bile or just being 'whiny b|tches' ... Really? Why didn't you mention any of this before? Oh, wait ...


... and now the latest thing is that those of us who have decided that 2018 is not at a point or place that is worth upgrading to are simply just trolls or ex-LW users or people simply filled with bile or just being 'whiny b|tches' and the same people over and over try to shout down any criticism of the latest release as if they themselves did not experience the same kind of doubt that most of us felt in the last year. Now its simply a club and if you haven't decided that 2018 is the best thing since sliced bread, you aren't in it. LW users are more isolated than ever and there's only one discussion that is being allowed anymore and that's praise of 2018.This really isn't accurate. As always, the software and company policy are valid targets for constructive criticism. And I've no problem whatsoever with someone pointing out that in their view, the new paradigm introduced some new and arguably unwelcome challenges. No one has moderated those type of discussions, except when those who, by their posting history and ceaseless opportunistic sniping, find it necessary to dredge up every possible complaint again and again at every possible turn, thereby demonstrating themselves in fact to be "trolls or ex-LW users or people simply filled with bile or just being 'whiny b|tches'".

And speaking of the previous year, and its seeming (I use the word 'seeming' advisedly, because very few have an idea what went on behind the scenes or why) inaction, lack of communication, and direction since you bring it up - again - take an honest look back at how much super-heated criticism we tolerated without much at all in the way of moderation during that period. To borrow a phrase, I'd say we were 'the very soul of restraint'. But its a new year, and there has been plenty of opportunity to vent that spleen.

I would have a certain amount of sympathy for someone who vomits on my dining room table, as unpleasant as it might be. But if they insist on sitting at the table so they can just spew forth endlessly, at some point I'm going to ask them to step outside for the sake of the rest of the diners. Blame the food or the cook if you like, but no-one needs this.

SBowie
05-24-2018, 08:12 AM
Bryphi's get-out clause is that he takes it to his own space on Youtube rather than being confrontational here.Not that this was by choice ...

Without getting into specifics of any particular individuals, there are a handful of people - several of them very talented LW users, who have been booted repeatedly over the years. Sometimes they've been allowed back in several times in hopes that they had matured a bit, learned how to contribute without resorting to personal attacks. Sometimes they sneak back in for a while under pseudonyms (this seldom lasts long, because their egos demand recognition and they 'out' themselves.)

A few of these individuals are real divas, imho, completely losing it if some lesser mortal has the temerity to question their assumptions; but their true prima donna side really comes out if they think someone has criticized their work in the slightest way. Everyone has to suffer their criticism, but heaven help anyone who returns the favor. It's a pity. Indeed, often they could make valuable valuable contributions to the community - but their absolute insistence on juvenile behavior places them in self-imposed exile, where they are free to moan about censorship to their heart's content while the rest of us forget and move on. To be honest, I can't even recall many of them or the issues they went apocalyptic about.

You can disagree with this assessment if you like - but you would be wrong. ;)

VonBon
05-24-2018, 09:36 AM
I've asked for help quite a few times on this forum,
for both personal and paid work. Haven't ever thought
myself to be pathetic for doing so.

What is the purpose of community forums if not to look
for insight and help???

VonBon
05-24-2018, 09:44 AM
If I watch a video tutorial to learn something to complete a project I'm getting paid for,
should I be considered "Pathetic" or is it just when you ask a person directly on a forum?

RPSchmidt
05-24-2018, 09:52 AM
What I got from the video is that the new renderer is a waste of years of development that doesn't really offer more than what Octane is capable of speedwise. That's true even with octane turtle gpu renderer. I'd rather have Redshift.

In my opinion, this is a huge part of the division between many of the posters and users here on this forum.

Some people prefer a different renderer... in this case, Redshift. Others prefer Octane. Some prefer the classic renderer in LW2015. For that reason, they view the focus on the rendering system as a waste of time and development.

I personally prefer not to have buy a 3d package AND an external renderer in order to get my desired results. I recognize that the reason Newtek took this route is because when the industry standard is PBR and you are the only 3d software package that isn't offering it natively, you are truly no longer relevant.

There would not be any more forward momentum in any significant area if they didn't resolve that primary issue first. And that's why I am not particularly upset or displeased with LW2018.


Pretty much this. People get the sense I'm trolling but the fact is, some of us are not pleased with the direction that 2018 has taken, how long its taken us to (in my opinion) take a step backward, some of the decisions as well as a lot of the inaction on the part of Newtek (especially the last year), lack of communication, lack of seeming direction of the software, key parts of the software that have been largely neglected (i.e. modeling) and now the latest thing is that those of us who have decided that 2018 is not at a point or place that is worth upgrading to are simply just trolls or ex-LW users or people simply filled with bile or just being 'whiny b|tches'

I think at this point and most probably much earlier after release, a majority of the posters and lurkers on this forum know who is not pleased with the release and who is not upgrading.

At this point, it's self-flagellation to continue pointing out what was not achieved in the release of LW2018.

To continue to do so repeatedly with zero expectation of a different result (being impossible as LW2018 has been released and it is what it is) and having no personal stake in the situation (in the case of someone who did not upgrade) is unfortunately very much within the definition of trolling.

I'm not saying this to be critical or as a personal attack; I'm saying it because it is logically indisputable if you look at it objectively.


...and the same people over and over try to shout down any criticism of the latest release as if they themselves did not experience the same kind of doubt that most of us felt in the last year. Now its simply a club and if you haven't decided that 2018 is the best thing since sliced bread, you aren't in it. LW users are more isolated than ever and there's only one discussion that is being allowed anymore and that's praise of 2018.

I personally don't think that LW2018 is the best thing since sliced bread. There are many things that it still desperately needs. You, samuari_x, and many, many others have pointed these things out on more than one occasion and many times I agree.

But because Newtek took the route of first right-aligning themselves with the industry does not mean that this is the end of development.

Right now, having done this right-alignment, they are in the perfect position to dedicate resources to those specific features in modeler that need to be added or improved; they can begin actively dedicating resources to streamlining portability to different platforms; they can begin partnerships with other industry leaders to create integrated plugins for popular products (Substance, et al).

When you look at it that way, this wasn't a bad thing.

That's what I am looking forward to.

VonBon
05-24-2018, 09:54 AM
If this is true then I'd like to blame people like, Spline God, William Vaughn, Rebel Hill, Erikals,
etc, etc, and maybe even you for my "Patheticness".

jwiede
05-24-2018, 01:21 PM
Highly unprofessional conduct towards LW customers by Newtek staff in this thread.

SBowie
05-24-2018, 01:26 PM
As always, feel free to report anything you see as inappropriate for review (it might be good to point to specific instances when doing so). I might just say that 'staff' can also be 'members', and as such can offer a personal view - provided they do so with the usual modicum of civility, etc., etc.

SBowie
05-24-2018, 01:36 PM
You want to read condescending remark go to the FB group and mention you still use 2015. :D
If you post anything negating their views over there the GODS basically delete your post.p.s., I do not have, nor, if there is a benevolent deity, will I ever have a Facebook account. But I will speak for this forum, where you are welcome to discuss the pros or cons of any LW version from 3.1 on, within forum guidelines.

Tobian
05-24-2018, 01:45 PM
Highly unprofessional trolling by not actually customers...

lardbros
05-24-2018, 01:50 PM
Probably best this thread was closed I imagine.

Can't see anything that is inappropriate for an employee to post here.

TheLexx
05-24-2018, 02:06 PM
Probably best this thread was closed I imagine.Maybe it should just be allowed to troll, I mean roll.... :devil::D

Tobian
05-24-2018, 02:10 PM
Well I think I've had enough ******** projection and lies said about me for one thing...

fishhead
05-24-2018, 02:15 PM
In regards to this so called "Review"... I am actually kind of angry that I felt forced to actually watch it - to the end - just to get an idea what this all is about. Man, what was that?!?
Please guys, do all of us a favor and do not link videos here anymore that IMHO have no other intentation than to give the creator a chance to insult pretty much everyone else who has a different opinion on matters...
Even if there are some more or less valid points in his utterings - the ratio might be 5 : 95 - at best...
I really do respect him for his contributions to the community for nodal / MoGraph techniques and more - totally different league when it comes to that. But also often enough lowest level concerning other people ... :-(

lardbros
05-24-2018, 02:19 PM
In regards to this so called "Review"... I am actually kind of angry that I felt forced to actually watch it - to the end - just to get an idea what this all is about. Man, what was that?!?
Please guys, do all of us a favor and do not link videos here anymore that IMHO have no other intentation than to give the creator a chance to insult pretty much everyone else who has a different opinion on matters...
Even if there are some more or less valid points in his utterings - the ratio might be 5 : 95 - at best...
I really do respect him for his contributions to the community for nodal / MoGraph techniques and more - totally different league when it comes to that. But also often enough lowest level concerning other people ... :-(

Quoted for agreement... And sorry you had to watch it :)

- - - Updated - - -


Maybe it should just be allowed to troll, I mean roll.... :devil::D

Haha... Very good, very good indeed! :D

SBowie
05-24-2018, 02:20 PM
OK, as is too often the case, the only way to refocus things without being unfair in any way to anyone involved seems to be to just let it go. So be it.