PDA

View Full Version : 2018 light help please



pdrake
05-11-2018, 03:28 PM
hello, can anyone tell me if there is a way to turn on the falloff range so you can see it the same way you could in 2015.

thanks

prometheus
05-11-2018, 05:32 PM
hello, can anyone tell me if there is a way to turn on the falloff range so you can see it the same way you could in 2015.

thanks

you have to enter nodes, check functions and add a light falloff node, connect the nodes...a bit more tedious than previously, and I am also doubtful it will behave the same as in 2015.

OjN
05-11-2018, 05:36 PM
Are you asking about the linear light falloff?
Now you need to use the light falloff function in the nodal editor:
https://docs.lightwave3d.com/display/LW2018/Functions#Functions-LightFalloffLightFalloff

Ups, looks I am late...:) I was looking for the info in the docs...

MonroePoteet
05-12-2018, 07:59 AM
Even if the Light Falloff node is added to the Light's node graph, it doesn't show the radius in the OpenGL preview as LW2015 did, as I believe what pdrake was wanting to do:

141644 LW2015 shows Falloff distance

Worth an "enhancement request", IMO, since it's lost functionality from LW2015 which may be useful.

As a workaround (a hack!), you could add a Null, say named FalloffNull, parent it to the Light, add an Item Shape custom object under its Properties=>Appearance tab to be a Ball, then use its Scaling from an Item Info node to the Light Falloff's Range / Nominal Distance Input. You then scale up or down the Null (CTRL-H) and the Ball representation will show the Fallof.

141646

As I said, a real hack!

mTp

jaxtone
05-13-2018, 05:04 AM
I never tried the 2015 version, went direct from 11.6 to the 2018 version.

Incredibly stupid system where the developers have worked against the rest of the world when it comes to interactivity. Let's say they went back to a 1994 mode when Lightwave where new and the world was different from today.

When the rest of the world strives for interactivity in user friendly systems, communicative environment and not the less in business interactions Lightwave do the opposite. You have to type in stuff that in a normal world also would have an alternative and more up to date way to do it with sliders and mouse or screen pens, wacom systems or whatever. But this really made me seasick with a taste of bad shrimps. How did they think, really?

I found another way to get fast and accurate views of how things can look from different light angles. Just as when I work with film I put the main spotlights first and the use the fillers, filters and extras. This new way that Lightwave developers have integrated has very little to do with real life experience of how to light up a scenery in less time than it takes to eat a Snickers slowly. Damn what a joke :)

Here is what I do to get a fast setup before tweaking and testing end results.

Select a spot and chose to set the "intensity faloff" to off!




hello, can anyone tell me if there is a way to turn on the falloff range so you can see it the same way you could in 2015.

thanks

prometheus
05-13-2018, 06:33 AM
I never tried the 2015 version, went direct from 11.6 to the 2018 version.

Incredibly stupid system where the developers have worked against the rest of the world when it comes to interactivity. Let's say they went back to a 1994 mode when Lightwave where new and the world was different from today.

When the rest of the world strives for interactivity in user friendly systems, communicative environment and not the less in business interactions Lightwave do the opposite. You have to type in stuff that in a normal world also would have an alternative and more up to date way to do it with sliders and mouse or screen pens, wacom systems or whatever. But this really made me seasick with a taste of bad shrimps. How did they think, really?

I found another way to get fast and accurate views of how things can look from different light angles. Just as when I work with film I put the main spotlights first and the use the fillers, filters and extras. This new way that Lightwave developers have integrated has very little to do with real life experience of how to light up a scenery in less time than it takes to eat a Snickers slowly. Damn what a joke :)

Here is what I do to get a fast setup before tweaking and testing end results.

Select a spot and chose to set the "intensity faloff" to off!

Then You missed out on the fastest render version of lightwave :) quite a difference from 11.6 versions and 2015 I think, then again..I had/ have so many issues with crashes in 2015 unfortunately, while 2018 seems quite stable.

Tim Parsons
05-13-2018, 08:54 AM
Incredibly stupid system where the developers have worked against the rest of the world when it comes to interactivity. In the real world do you get light falloff range circles? Of course not. So why in an interactive renderer would you need the same? :)

prometheus
05-13-2018, 12:03 PM
In the real world do you get light falloff range circles? Of course not. So why in an interactive renderer would you need the same? :)

3d isnīt the real world, probably why...(openGL)
And personally ...the lack of direct falloff range where you can better visualize the falloff range, and also a direct slider as we used to have...in 2018 that feels like a step backwards, some of the workflow changes propagates through out 2018 in changes that isnīt as user friendly anymore, and it has to do with direct acess to functions in various places, such as light falloff, hypertexture, random particle scale etc, it isnīt as fast and easy anymore.

Tim Parsons
05-13-2018, 05:50 PM
Yeah I get it. :) But I think the real reason why they aren't there is that the lights by default work like real world lights so the fall-off is not adjustable by default therefore no reason to have fall-off circles. But yes - why not at least have options to turn stuff like this on and off.

Andy Webb
05-15-2018, 03:57 AM
Yeah I get it. :) But I think the real reason why they aren't there is that the lights by default work like real world lights so the fall-off is not adjustable by default therefore no reason to have fall-off circles. But yes - why not at least have options to turn stuff like this on and off.

But surely if you can set the fall off range in the node editor, there would be no harm in being able to see that range interactively on screen. It would be usefull and I for one would like to see it.

Tim Parsons
05-15-2018, 06:14 AM
But surely if you can set the fall off range in the node editor, there would be no harm in being able to see that range interactively on screen. It would be usefull and I for one would like to see it.

Yes - should be an option.

RPSchmidt
05-15-2018, 07:28 AM
But surely if you can set the fall off range in the node editor, there would be no harm in being able to see that range interactively on screen. It would be usefull and I for one would like to see it.

Perhaps I am seeing something very different than everyone else, but I can actually see the lighting and the area that is lit as I am adjusting the falloff without VPR.

Is everybody else not getting that?

Tim Parsons
05-15-2018, 07:36 AM
Perhaps I am seeing something very different than everyone else, but I can actually see the lighting and the area that is lit as I am adjusting the falloff without VPR.

Is everybody else not getting that?

Screen shot?

jeric_synergy
05-15-2018, 07:59 AM
In the real world do you get light falloff range circles? Of course not. So why in an interactive renderer would you need the same? :)

Precisely because the 3D environment is NOT the real world: it is a sparse, weak emulation of the RW and thus requires more assistance to work in.

ianr
05-15-2018, 09:16 AM
Precisely because the 3D environment is NOT the real world: it is a sparse, weak emulation of the RW and thus requires more assistance to work in.


I hope this is helpful new Tute by Andrew Combs : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeLLGPwiYOs

prometheus
05-15-2018, 09:42 AM
Yeah I get it. :) But I think the real reason why they aren't there is that the lights by default work like real world lights so the fall-off is not adjustable by default therefore no reason to have fall-off circles. But yes - why not at least have options to turn stuff like this on and off.

ask yourself..
why would they even bother to make a node version with node falloffs it that is the case?
but you did come up with a good answer.

prometheus
05-15-2018, 09:58 AM
Incredibly stupid system where the developers have worked against the rest of the world when it comes to interactivity

I know it can be frustrating...and I myself have similar feelings when it comes to accessing hypertextures in the new volumetrics, as well as trying to change voxel random size in the very sam new system, compared to old hypervoxels....but the question is if it is with respect you bring forth your frustration, being careful how you describe it may be a better way for your "requests" to take impact, in is not self evident that is the case...but Initially that is what I think serves everyone best, unless you are stuck with your frustrations for years, then you should perhaps actually start to look for other alternatives, if you do not get any acceptable answer or changes in the software.

I definitely think the team has an issue with the workflow though..trying to implement new things etc, which doesnīt fall in to good soil really, think they need to step back and look at their "painting" from a different perspective after this release, which includes Carefully really listen to some of the complaints, suggestions regarding old vs new workflow.

Funny, I can see how the selection mode jumping has been reverted back to the bottom bar, instead of being located in the tabbed menus, I sort of got used to the new way, but I really think the revert to the old way is better anyway.

JohnMarchant
05-16-2018, 01:30 PM
In the real world do you get light falloff range circles? Of course not. So why in an interactive renderer would you need the same? :)

Whilst i agree Tim, this whole "In the real world" is beginning to give me the rouge derriere. We dont deal in the real world allot of the time, many times we are creating fantasy and not what it would look like in the real world, cartoon, cel shading etc. Picasso would have had a devil of a time if everyone turned around and said "Well thats not real world proportions or indeed where they go", i would dare say that 70% of renders ever done do not strictly conform to the real world, should we throw them all away now. PBR is good and i like it, you can get some very good renders with minimal setup, but its a whole lot more to get it accurate.

When i walk around i dont see DOF circles or Min/Max volumetric circles everywhere. These things are used to give us an idea where things are and where they will effect. We used to have cone start and cone height in spolights volumetric, and we could see roughly in wireframe where the effect would be, now we dont, we have start and then we guess using VPR. I think in 2018 we have just lost a few of these handy little pointers we used to have.

jeric_synergy
05-16-2018, 05:58 PM
Camera lenses have guides on them to show the DOF for a given f-stop and FL.

Is that some kind of crutch? No, it's a guide.

Similar s/w tools are the same.

pdrake
05-21-2018, 12:55 PM
Yes, I want the radius circle back to quickly envision falloff, especially when in wireframe. The ability to adjust falloff range/nominal distance for a group of lights is also gone from the scene/dope editor. Why would they take that away?

These things made it easier to work and now it's just harder and more cumbersome.

jeric_synergy
05-21-2018, 01:09 PM
I see the DOF Display still seems to work, although only visible if GL OVERLAY is on.

Since it's a Custom Object, I applied it to a null, and parented the null to the camera with PARENT IN PLACE off. --In case anybody need this info.

As to the FALLOFF CIRCLE... it seems some sort of UI convention could be established, even if not technically accurate, to assist in setup.

Has anyone actually submitted a feature request yet?

RPSchmidt
05-21-2018, 01:09 PM
Screen shot?

I wish I could, but I'm on a production system and am not connected to the internet or allowed to transfer anything off of it.

But when I set up lighting, I can see clearly where the light falls on objects; when I adjust the falloff and go back to the window, I can see how far the light expands on the objects in the scene, until it falls off to black, or slightly less bright, etc., depending on scene lighting.