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erikals
05-05-2018, 04:38 AM
nice...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDqjIdI4bF4

TheLexx
05-05-2018, 08:57 AM
Thank you erikals. One excellent resource is the Richard Williams (http://theanimatorssurvivalkit.com/ipad.html) video material. I was lucky to get the full dvd set cheap, but the iPad app is probably better for most people.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the 12 principles for realistic character animation ? My own impression is that 2D and 3D character animation generally suffers from Steamboat Willie Syndrome or Silent Film Syndrome with very exaggerated mid-poses, as if the need to show all 12 principles at all times in every shot. Then again, I suppose that is probably in the brief of those projects. Where realistic characters are required, I guess they just get real actors. Still, I believe film directors threw out acting stagey theatrical performances in favour of naturalsitic performances even during the Silent Era without even waiting for the Talkies, but there still seems to be a culture of "cartoons for kids" for 2D/3D character animation. Maybe others can chime in there. :)

BigHache
05-05-2018, 11:17 AM
Does anyone have any thoughts on the 12 principles for realistic character animation ?

The elements still apply, just more subdued.

Squash and Stretch could be viewed as a simplistic way to draw motion blur.
Body mechanics will still dictate that human movements are choreographed. The amount of choreography will come off as stage actor vs film actor a lot of times. And I think the term animation still applies to hand keyframed or mocap.
Staging a shot is cinematography. How you stage may determine if you're shooting a drama, comedy, action shot, etc.

The reason these things are so exaggerated in say 2D animation is because the drawings are so simplistic, subtle motions generally don't convey as well as realism.

erikals
05-09-2018, 11:59 AM
The elements still apply, just more subdued.
it really depends, on what style you're going for.
these 12 Principles still heavily apply to today's standards



by the way, a sidenote, might be of interest >

Concept Art is Dead
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?157046-Concept-Art-is-Dead&p=1545686#post1545686

robertoortiz
05-09-2018, 01:43 PM
I think the principles are honestly the bedrocks of western style animation. A program like Lightwave would benefit a LOT by taking them in consideration developing the next gen animation tools.

erikals
05-09-2018, 02:13 PM
Absolutely! :)

bobakabob
05-09-2018, 04:37 PM
Agree with Roberto, the principles are essential. For Lightwave I wish the Graph editor was updated. Maya’s autotangents give really smooth ease in and ease out motion by default - it would be great to see a Lightwave adaption, it would ease CA workflow.

erikals
05-09-2018, 06:59 PM
smooth ease in and ease out motion by default
it'd be nice, agree.

i think Create Key+ could, but got buggy in the LW11 series...
https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/create-key

robertoortiz
05-10-2018, 07:38 AM
To help the conversation I am going to post the
"Disney's Twelve Basic Principles of Animation were introduced by the Disney animators Ollie Johnston and Frank Thomas in their 1981 book The Illusion of Life: Disney Animation.[a][1] Johnston and Thomas in turn based their book on the work of the leading Disney animators from the 1930s onwards, and their effort to produce more realistic animations."

1 The 12 Principles of Animation
1.1 Squash and Stretch
1.2 Anticipation
1.3 Staging
1.4 Straight Ahead Action and Pose to Pose
1.5 Follow Through and Overlapping Action
1.6 Slow In and Slow Out
1.7 Arc
1.8 Secondary Action
1.9 Timing
1.10 Exaggeration
1.11 Solid drawing
1.12 Appeal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_basic_principles_of_animation

rednova
05-10-2018, 07:33 PM
Hi:
I loved this video very much.
I have a book by Tim Albee called something like 'lightwave 3d 8 character animation'.
The book has many of the animation principles featured with great detailing.
The book is great for learning the animation principles, and you can apply them to lightwave.
I do love this video on the 12 principles.

erikals
05-11-2018, 01:15 PM
heard about that book,
RHA from Rebel Hill also looks like a nice addition

http://www.rebelhill.net/html/rha.html

robertoortiz
05-12-2018, 08:26 AM
I posted this on the CGSOCIETY:
FROM SCRATCH: Sketch some NEXT GEN Animation Tools based on the 12 Principles of Animation

Lets play a game.
Imagine you had blank canvas, and you could design super intuitive animation tools set
not bound by ANYTHING that came before. The only rules is that it woul have to tak inspiration from the
12 principles of animation.

they are:
1.1 Squash and Stretch
1.2 Anticipation
1.3 Staging
1.4 Straight Ahead Action and Pose to Pose
1.5 Follow Through and Overlapping Action
1.6 Slow In and Slow Out1.7 Arc
1.8 Secondary Action1.9 Timing
1.10 Exaggeration
1.11 Solid drawing
1.12 Appeal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_basic_principles_of_animation
So how would it look like? Well show us.


I would love to see the people inthe LW forum sketch some ideas and post them here. I know I will.

erikals
05-12-2018, 11:08 AM
Disney & LightWave Animator Tom Roth also gives some advice here,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlNDdASjf10


you can buy his LightWave CA video here,
http://www.liberty3d.com/citizens/tom-roth

TheLexx
05-12-2018, 11:49 AM
On rare occasions the Tim Albee DVD LightWave 9 Foundations of Character Animation (https://www.amazon.com/LightWave-3D-Foundations-Character-Animation/dp/B000GFKXIS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526146633&sr=8-1&keywords=LightWave+9+Foundations+of+Character+Anim ation) comes up on Ebay or Amazon. Some of the 12 Principles tutorials on Pluralsight for other software are transferrable in terms of universal knowledge, but any specific LW animation material is welcome. Probably worth mentioning the Todd Grimes Character Modeling & Animation Series (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dmovies-tv&field-keywords=Todd+Grimes+Rex+Olson+dvd&rh=n%3A2625373011%2Ck%3ATodd+Grimes+Rex+Olson+dvd&ajr=0) DVD set (currently 4 discs available on Amazon).

The one I would be really curious to see is the entire Lightwave 3D Professional Character Series (https://web.archive.org/web/20061020020911/http://3dtrainingonline.com/) by "Splinegod" Larry Schultz - I have one disc Introduction to Character Modeling (https://www.amazon.com/LightWave-3D-Introduction-Character-Modeling/dp/B001LFDI5M/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1526147975&sr=8-12&keywords=kurv+dvd) - otherwise the set seems pretty much lost to history, as I never see them listed anywhere.

robertoortiz
05-13-2018, 06:02 AM
I will bre re posting here some of the great replies from the CGTALK thread:
Post by skeebertus

What would help a lot in Character Animation would be ragdoll-, limbs-, body- and muscle-physics simulation being an integral part of animation rigs in all Pro 3D softwares.
Some people may think that "the trained animator being tasked with conveying the correct sense of weight, strength, agility, speed through keyframes" is a great way to do things.
I personally think that that is a complete waste of time on many projects - it would make far more practical sense to be able to set up the correct physics of a character's musculo-skeletal system, assign things like physical mass to different body parts, and then do physics-enabled and physics-assisted keyframe animation.

Software should also be able to auto-correct and filter out unwanted crap like sliding feet, feet or hands going through other objects, and other nonsense like that when animating.
When I animate a character, I want to focus on getting the character to act in a convincing manner.
Software shouldn't force me to tweak animation curves for 25 to 40 minutes to correct every problem with the motion of a character.

erikals
05-13-2018, 06:29 AM
Software shouldn't force me to tweak animation curves for 25 to 40 minutes to correct every problem with the motion of a character.
hopefully we'll see more software going in this direction.

Endorphin 3D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAWgGRql3QA

Microsoft bought it, but like with many other MS projects it doesn't mean it will be further developed with a release
...like Project Offset.

agree, creating good animations is just way too time consuming these days

TheLexx
05-13-2018, 06:36 AM
I believe RR has a LW workflow where he integrates IKBooster and rag doll physics at will.

prometheus
05-13-2018, 08:15 AM
I believe RR has a LW workflow where he integrates IKBooster and rag doll physics at will.

That is Ik booster dynamics solely right? not including a workflow with bullet dynamics? itīs been in there for a while with ik booster bone dynamics anyway.
I wish we had that working with bullet bones ..since the dynamics in there is quite nice, while using it with ik etc and setting it up is not as simple as you can with Ik booster, ..with ik booster you just apply it over any and it is done, quite different in how you set it up with bullet in special orders.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdKV_MHnUdY&index=1&list=PLdaQ-nxd0g2dIu2-FMjBVkjBaF_7JJ9F4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhOTDxoylII&list=PLdaQ-nxd0g2dIu2-FMjBVkjBaF_7JJ9F4&index=9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmLekk2Dpyw&index=10&list=PLdaQ-nxd0g2dIu2-FMjBVkjBaF_7JJ9F4

erikals
05-13-2018, 08:59 AM
yep, many ways... here a scene from James Willmott


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7RhQ0LmvUk

wayback download >
http://web.archive.org/web/20070815033742/http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/animation/FXLink/source.zip

wayback html >
http://web.archive.org/web/20070815033742/http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/animation/FXLink/index.html


automation of such things would be nice, among other features, like foot movement

erikals
05-13-2018, 09:06 AM
in other news...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vppFvq2quQ0

erikals
05-13-2018, 09:38 AM
related, IKBooster bone dynamics, can be used for IKB Ragdoll


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrGjQoENkTg