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View Full Version : Yes, LW archviz users....



Hervé
12-27-2003, 02:14 AM
Hey, this is the kind of talk from NT that I'd like to see.... I mean really, and I am sure a lot of other users as well....

picked at the alias site... news from CG Channel...

"......Ideal for Architecture
What makes Maya perfect for this application? For one, the software is optimized to handle huge scene files. “Maya can handle scenes with thousands of objects, and it doesn’t crash,” comments Marc Lamoureux, president of Alpha Vision, a leading North American provider of 3D architectural visualization. “Plus, we can maintain a high level of interactivity, even while manipulating very large scenes.”

Also important is Maya’s ability to read files created in .DWG, the file format used by Autodesk’s AutoCAD and the de facto standard for the storage of CAD data. “Nearly all our projects start as AutoCAD drawings,” says Lamoureux. “Being able to read .DWG files in Maya is a huge plus.....”

For now this is really not the case of LW.... all hope for LW8 large scenes handling.... with 2 GB of ram, a dual proc, plenty of HD space, I tohught I would be set ! Nope. I have a complex scene where one house has 1,8 polys including all outside furniture and plants, trees... I am at the point where I have to remove some objects, depending the view I am rendering... well if I need an entire street, then forget.... I wanted to add some birds flying around.... forget.... so .... make it ! He he he

Happy New Year....;)

Kvaalen
12-27-2003, 05:17 AM
I know what you mean by LightWave not being able to handle huge scene files. I really hope this gets fixed sometime soon.

Happy new year to you too. :)

Lewis
12-27-2003, 06:14 AM
Interesting problem Herve :)

I rendered 5,4 millin polygons scene in LW 7.5c on 1GB RAM machine (P4 2,53GHz, 3DLabs Wildcat and 1GB PC2700 RAM). So only thing what comes to my mind is that you did something wrong in whole setup if you can't render 1,8 mill polys scene with 2GB ram ?

I have 4GB swap file and loading that scene in start uses more than 1GB of ram so swap is in use from start without rendering. And do you know what's best part of thath scene ? I rendered that image in 5100*3500 pixels resolution (divided in 4 images with divide scene plugin just in case i get powercut or such things in time when i wasn't having UPS :)).

cheers

ingo
12-27-2003, 06:38 AM
Yes Master Herve, tell us what went wrong ;)

For my last project i had to render several scenes with around 2.000.000 polys, without problem. Worked even on my trusty old G4 450 with 1,25 GB RAM and 2 GB free HD space.

BTW, happy XMas and New Year to Luxembourg.

omeone
12-27-2003, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by Hervé

Also important is Maya’s ability to read files created in .DWG, the file format used by Autodesk’s AutoCAD and the de facto standard for the storage of CAD data. “Nearly all our projects start as AutoCAD drawings,” says Lamoureux. “Being able to read .DWG files in Maya is a huge plus.....”


Well, Lamoureux's lost credibility there... *.dgn is the format of choice for CAD pros.

Karmacop
12-27-2003, 08:04 AM
I think they lost credibility when they decided to do an infomercial :p

ingo
12-27-2003, 08:24 AM
So they had credibility ? ;) Anyway, the renderings are not very convincing, MR can do better. And six month for that few images, when i need that time i'm outa business soon.

Yog
12-27-2003, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by omeone
Well, Lamoureux's lost credibility there... *.dgn is the format of choice for CAD pros.

Not so.
DWG is the format of choice for all the Architectural offices I have worked in.

Wade
12-27-2003, 09:20 AM
Herve,

What is the total size of your images maps - check in the image editor. I ask because the only size limitations I have had would be with image maps. LW has been able to render 3 million polys for me no problems, but if I have 60 image maps totaling 250 Megs then things go south. On one render I just down sized all the maps and life was good.

For example I had a 5 Meg brick texture map, 5 meg brick bump map, but I found that if I made them 1/10th the size .5megs things look just as good and I was able to render the scene just fine. That went for maps on my trees as well down from 10megs for the leaves to .5megs or so.

!!! dwg files in Modeler thou would be great !!!

omeone
12-27-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by Yog
Not so.
DWG is the format of choice for all the Architectural offices I have worked in.

Yeah, most small offices tend to start with *.dwg as it's usually all they know (I did too), until they get involved with largescale projects. Really though, professional (+10 CAD seats) and established companies stick with *.dgn for better interoperability. And these days *.dwg can be considered a subset of *.dgn.
The origin of their file name extensions tells it all really... *.dwg = drawing... *.dgn = design. :)

Yog
12-27-2003, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by omeone
Yeah, most small offices tend to start with *.dwg as it's usually all they know (I did too), until they get involved with largescale projects. Really though, professional (+10 CAD seats) and established companies stick with *.dgn for better interoperability. And these days *.dwg can be considered a subset of *.dgn.
The origin of their file name extensions tells it all really... *.dwg = drawing... *.dgn = design. :)

Horses for coarses.
There are about 30+ Architects and technitians in our office using Acad, not including the M+E and Structures departments.

Although I would admit that it can be a job trying to drag some of my colleagues into the 20th century. :)

Hervé
12-28-2003, 02:21 AM
OK Oky, Ingo, first of all thank you for calling me master but I am not..... sorry...

Then when I said LW is not capable to handle large scenes, I was more reffering to number of objects as well as number of image maps used to texture all those objects.... all that not counting all the hungry ram plugins like shadow designer, hyper smooth x-dof....

so if you want to start counting, yes I am trying to push LW as I need to make a pretty killer animation of about 2000 frames... so because rendering time was an issue, I had to burn (bake) illumination using the real cool tutorial NT has on his site from Emanuele Salvucci (who gave me nice advice about), anyway, so yes, I ended up with many maps / texture... I need for example now 2 maps just for color texture X (multiplied) illumination map... + spec map + bump map + bit of dirt map.... well for a total of 87 objects and 389 surfaces, I have now 522 image maps... some very small (like leaves), some pretty large like the illumination map for the house walls (this one big is 3000 x 3000 itself, I tried to be under, but the result was horrible...!), ... so I think it has something to do with the number of objects X number of maps X size of maps..... somewhere.... so a fix ofr Image memory managment would be .... good.

Well, that's it.
Do not party too hard for New Year 's Eve... he he...

Cheers
Prosit Ingo..!

Jure
12-28-2003, 03:01 AM
I agree about supporting .dwg format. Although that's not what bothers me most with archviz. I am more bothered with poor lights flexibility - meaning you are pretty limited if you don't want to use radiosity or area lights for the sake of render time.
What I really miss is that you can not scale lights over one axis. To me that's quite a big limitation.

Handling big scene files can be pain, though it can be work around with carefully turning on and off objects you don't need. Saving often is as usual your best friend. Which brings me to another question, why is there no autosave function in layout?

Oh, and btw. anyone experienced G2 failing to cooperate when using more than 250 lights?


cheers,

Hervé
12-28-2003, 03:55 AM
Hey Jure I think there is an auto save function, but it's in the hub.... I think....

Someone said something about renderingtime being really improved... I mean way faster.... any infos anyone on that....

Yog
12-28-2003, 04:11 AM
The only concrete comment on rendering speed in LW8 from somebody who has actually used it was from Jennifer "Cel shader Queen" (sorry, forgot last name) at Siggraph.

She made an offhand comment on the live feed to say that rendering seemed faster.
But she did also qualify this by wondering whether this might be do to the fact she was rendering on a Boxx system, which was faster than she normally used.

There has been no further "official" comment on render speed since, but I have noticed user posts going from "it might be faster", to "it will be faster", to "it will be a lot faster".

I will wait and see, but I will also keep in mind that LW7 rendered raytraced elements slower than LW6.

Hervé
12-28-2003, 05:59 AM
I dunno, but certainly the boxx system is not faster than any other supermarket computer with the same processors an graphic card.... sure it's a metal case.... but that's it... oh and I know what I am talking about... as I am typing this on my boxx dual... there is a big difference...... in price ... he he

Yog
12-28-2003, 07:32 AM
Ah, but Jennifers comments didn't necessarily mean that Boxx systems are any faster than others, just that THAT Boxx setup was faster than she was used to. ;)

Wade
12-28-2003, 02:51 PM
Herve,

Lets see a sneak peak! Can you render a little 600x800 for us?

Hervé
12-29-2003, 11:03 PM
I will when it's finished render.... stay tune

pixym
12-30-2003, 08:02 PM
Same thing for me Hervé,

I have rendered a 3,5 Millions of poly scene with fast feed back in the layout (with a 1,5GB Ram).

LW rock for huge architectural scene. I do not know what the Maya users call "huge" files... I have a good friend who wanted to switch from Maya to LW because of the lack of feedback of Maya when managaning huge file LW do.

dwburman
12-30-2003, 09:20 PM
herve,
Are any of your image maps unnecessarily 24-bit? I mean, stuff like bump, diffuse, and spec don't use more than 8-bits (256 grey) (or am I still using info that is stuck in LW 5.6)? If that is the case you can save yourself quite a bit of memory there.

and the auto-save function is for modeler not layout.

Wade
12-30-2003, 11:10 PM
8 bit grey is the way to go when you can, and for such things as bump and clip you should always just keep the total overhead down as much as you can.

Hervé
12-30-2003, 11:43 PM
well , all bump maps are 8 bit... thanks.

IN FACT, I think it also relays in the fact I am using plugins from 3D evasion, and if you use them with big scenes, you are looking for problems... so more integrated plugins for LW ( I know, but let me dream a bit...)