PDA

View Full Version : I知 lost need help!



Tony3d
03-31-2018, 10:57 AM
Ok, I’ve worked in Lightwave for many years, and have produced great looking images for my clients, but I have to tell you I’m lost in 2018! Where the hell is the gradient image that render in the background? And the lighting is all node based now? I’m in trouble. Whatever happened to ambient light?

Kryslin
03-31-2018, 11:33 AM
The gradient background is where it's always been, on the environment tab (ctrl-f5 on PC). If you want to do fancy effects with your lights, then you can use nodes. You're not in trouble, you've just got a learning curve ahead of you. Ambient light is not needed in a Physicallly Based Rendering model.

There are many ways to replace ambient light in a scene. Be creative, and find a way that works for what you do.

Don't forget to set your color space - sRGB is for monitors.

As far as noise in renders go, it's always samples(Light, Reflection, Refraction, SSS) before AA passes. Also, the noise reduction workflow in the online docs is your friend, and it does work.

Environment lights require more samples than other lights... about double in most cases.

Try to keep your samples and AA passes as low as possible. The exception to this is things with a high frequency texture (like a woven mat) or FiberFX - then you will need more AA passes... about double.

Adaptive AA, if set right, can save you a bit of time. Try a value of between .05 - .1 instead of the default to start with. Otherwise, leave it unchecked.

Tile size can affect your render times by quite a bit. What I do is divide my resolution by the tile size. If the result is equal or greater than the number of threads, I use that size. Otherwise, I move down to the next smaller size. (Eg : I'm rendering @ 960 x 540; I have an I7 960, so I have 8 threads. Thisd gives me 6 tiles @ 256 x 256 (960 / 256 = 3, rounded down, 540 / 256 = 2, rounded down, for 6 tiles) I set my tile size for 128 x 128. The idea behind this is to have as much of the image being rendered as possible at any given time for the first pass. The second pass can split up tiles between cores.

jeric_synergy
03-31-2018, 11:54 AM
Perhaps part of the dox, very BRIEF parts, should address things like "Ambient Light: REMOVED in 2018", just to answer questions like this. -Usually new features are stressed, but removed features are NOT.

In a perfect world, it would be "Ambient Light: REMOVED in 2018, follow these links to see workarounds".

Tony3d
03-31-2018, 12:14 PM
Man thanks for all the input! The reason I’m in trouble is that I have put off learning nodes ever since they came out. I have stuck with the standard setup! Now I can see I better start learning. Do you know a cheap way good to start? I don’t think I’ll see renders like this again for a long time. LOL!

hrgiger
03-31-2018, 12:17 PM
It may be helpful to watch Ryan Royes introduction to 2018 where he goes over what's changed. Beyond that, I would spend some time in the online docs which from what I've seen are a marked improvement over previous documentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKJGFm4DDls&t=3s

jeric_synergy
03-31-2018, 01:03 PM
Man thanks for all the input! The reason I’m in trouble is that I have put off learning nodes ever since they came out. I have stuck with the standard setup! Now I can see I better start learning. Do you know a cheap way good to start? I don’t think I’ll see renders like this again for a long time. LOL!

Besides HR's recent offerings re: the render engine, his old node tutorials are, IIRC, up for free on YT. Especially good for understanding what the hell vector math is, and why you might want to get acquainted just a bit w/it.

I had to pay for them, and they were certainly worth every penny.

In Ryan's ten minute tour, lighting starts at ~4:30. However, I recommend watching everything, as, as ever, it's things that aren't even mentioned explicitly that are often most useful, such as multiple selection workflows. Watching other people work is almost always educational, with a lot of forehead smacking involved.

MonroePoteet
03-31-2018, 01:43 PM
I'd recommend opening one of your LW2015 scenes in LW2018. It will ask you for a new, empty content folder and convert the Scene, Objects (with their Surfaces), Lighting setup, etc. to LW2018 type. You can then look at the node networks it sets up. You'll almost guaranteed need to tweak the surfaces and the lighting and maybe some other stuff, but hopefully learn how stuff works in LW2018.

And, the forums are usually a great help!

mTp

Tony3d
03-31-2018, 01:55 PM
Thanks I am trying that now. Is there a way to change the wireframe mesh color in Layout? I know you can in Modeler. Would like it to match models blue.

MonroePoteet
03-31-2018, 02:25 PM
It's the same as in prior versions: Press CTRL-F1 to get into the Scene Editor, click on the cube icon (for mesh objects) to the left of the Item Name. You'll get a pull-down of the available colors.

140956

mTp

MonroePoteet
03-31-2018, 02:30 PM
Another definite recommendation for learning the new Principled BSDF, Conductor, Dielectric and other nodal materials for Surfaces is to use the Presets shelf (F8) while in the Surface Editor (F5). Using the Built-in pulldown there are quite a few example materials, load each of them and take a look at the node setup for that Material.

A WARNING, though - loading a Preset completely overwrites your existing node setup. If you want to add a Preset to your existing node network, bring in a "Surface Sample" throw-away object, load the Preset into its Surface, Copy the node network, then Paste it into your own.

mTp

prometheus
03-31-2018, 03:32 PM
Ok, I’ve worked in Lightwave for many years, and have produced great looking images for my clients, but I have to tell you I’m lost in 2018! Where the hell is the gradient image that render in the background? And the lighting is all node based now? I’m in trouble. Whatever happened to ambient light?

actually, you donエt need nodes to use the new lights, but it helps when doing more advanced stuff, but for similar things like the old stuff, you do not need it...with one exception, that is the falloff node workflow..where it used to be accesable directly.

For new materials, you need to learn nodes basics, such as setting uv, map, projection map, image map, that is about it to reach normal level equal to standard material.
Itエs not that hard.

more complex stuff...will be harder, simple as that:)
backdrop has itエs own button to reach it faster, and the backdrop gradient is now on by defualt, where in old lightwave it was buried inside of the effects tab and not on by default.
GI also on by default, where in old lightwave not on by default.

prometheus
03-31-2018, 03:35 PM
Man thanks for all the input! The reason I’m in trouble is that I have put off learning nodes ever since they came out. I have stuck with the standard setup! Now I can see I better start learning. Do you know a cheap way good to start? I don’t think I’ll see renders like this again for a long time. LOL!

Actually ..the new lightwave would probably be able to spit out even better looking brass stands with simply the new material presets, and even improve some of the metal you have on that image..that said, very nice image.

Tony3d
03-31-2018, 04:04 PM
Thanks a lot. I don’t get it. I knew how that mesh color worked I used it for years. I think I’m just upset with this node thing. Sorry guys. I feel like a noob! Better quit for tonight. There are no just straight out color presets correct? I only see a handful.

Tim Parsons
03-31-2018, 04:06 PM
Man thanks for all the input! The reason I知 in trouble is that I have put off learning nodes ever since they came out. I have stuck with the standard setup! Now I can see I better start learning. Do you know a cheap way good to start? I don稚 think I値l see renders like this again for a long time. LOL!

Oh wow you are in for some great renders if this the kind of stuff you do!! The shading engine is amazing. The LW2018 engine was made for product shots.

Tony3d
03-31-2018, 04:46 PM
Ok where did reflection blur go? My God this gonna be difficult.

RebelHill
03-31-2018, 04:51 PM
Might be of use...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTds3QePYrWFKQSaSWGMnKF7-4W84I5Tz

jeric_synergy
03-31-2018, 05:42 PM
Ok where did reflection blur go? My God this gonna be difficult.
140960

djwaterman
03-31-2018, 05:49 PM
Use roughness, in the standard shader that might be glossiness (but don't use the standard shader).

Chris S. (Fez)
03-31-2018, 06:07 PM
Unlearn what you have learned. Believe it or not, these are standard surfacing parameters are all for the best.

Tony3d
03-31-2018, 06:55 PM
Well I don’t know. Been messing around with this for hours, and I’m still not happy with it! The first image is 11.3, and the second is 2018. Just not happy with this. Even the blur looks better in 11.3.

Chris S. (Fez)
03-31-2018, 07:32 PM
1 to 1 does not apply. I completely understand your pain but in terms of AA quality you are essentially starting over.

Chris S. (Fez)
03-31-2018, 07:38 PM
You seem a dedicated gentleman. Save yourself some misery. Contact RebelHill for early access to 2018 training.

Tony3d
03-31-2018, 09:52 PM
Great tutorials! Thank you!

UnCommonGrafx
03-31-2018, 10:05 PM
Well I don’t know. Been messing around with this for hours, and I’m still not happy with it! The first image is 11.3, and the second is 2018. Just not happy with this. Even the blur looks better in 11.3.

Huh...?

Do you have a bump on the speaker material? It shows up in the reflection on 2018, if you do. If you don't, somethings going on there.
For me, the second image works for me better than the first; the first looks photoshop-smudged, for lack of a better term.
Thanks for these images. Wanna post the scene?
Robert

Tony3d
03-31-2018, 11:37 PM
Hi Robert, I probably better not post the scene file as the model really belongs to my client now. Although the turntable above is mine, that was rendered in 2015. I could try to import that into 2018, and post it. Overall, I think I have a lot to relearn here with this new physical rendering engine. Just look at the detail on the tweeter in the 11.3 version vs the 2018. Also the ground plane blurred reflection looks much better to me in the 11.3. I guess I need to set the properties for more balanced results, and let the renderer do the work once an HDR Image is set to the background. This image of a Cary tube amp was made in 9.5, or 11.3 I believe. Yes, there is a slight bump map on the cabinet, and that seems to look better in 11.3 as well.

Tony3d
04-01-2018, 09:56 AM
It's the same as in prior versions: Press CTRL-F1 to get into the Scene Editor, click on the cube icon (for mesh objects) to the left of the Item Name. You'll get a pull-down of the available colors.

140956

mTp

Thank you. I don稚 use it much in Latout, forgot where it was LOL!

jeric_synergy
04-01-2018, 12:48 PM
It's the same as in prior versions: Press CTRL-F1 to get into the Scene Editor, click on the cube icon (for mesh objects) to the left of the Item Name. You'll get a pull-down of the available colors.

140956

mTp

BTW, does anyone besides me thing "CTRL-F1" is a TERRIBLE default for the SE?

Going by the principle that "often used features should not use bucky-keys" (look it up), I re-assigned F1 to call up the SE, because I use it all the time.

Seriously, WHO THE HELL assigned F2 to "Motion Mixer"? Too valuable a key for that mis-feature. Same with Objects/Lights/Cameras modes-- none of them should use ctrl key modifiers.

Tony3d
04-01-2018, 02:47 PM
LOL! Makes no sense! I’m having a hell of a time coming up to speed with 2018! Going to use 2015.3 for all my current client jobs, and hopefully someday use 2018 for new stuff! I’ll dlowly import model pieces, then retexture then in Lightwave 2018! Going to be a chore!

UnCommonGrafx
04-02-2018, 05:02 AM
Tony,
Take a day to look at all the vids for 2018.
Based on your work, it will quickly grok. The biggest problem you are going to have: you have DEEP LEARNED a lot of LW which is going to have to be unlearned.

Look at your metals and plastics on your capacitors, for example. Work on one of those in 2018. I believe you will see vast improvements on the system and how quickly you can get to your beauty-look.

A lot of tricks have been alleviated in 2018. Ha, in the .3 version, they put the camera to 1! That really made me laugh. It's been 9 or so forever! I can get nice, crisp renders with 4. I can crank it up to 48 and the render doesn't take a day. This thing is different.

Someone shared a link on rendering with Arnold. In this day off, find this article and have a read/view - our renderer is 'like' that.
Enjoy. Looking forward to watching your learning.
Robert