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nealroba
12-26-2003, 01:31 PM
I'm working on a video and I have a few layers of video, a layer of graphics, and audio all going at the same time. When I play it back, it starts to stutter really bad. I tried rendering the select time range, but it didn't help...Any thoughts as how to cure my Toaster's stuttering problem? Thanks.

-Rob-
[email protected]

SBowie
12-26-2003, 01:42 PM
You mean you rendered the offending range and replaced the original source clips with the newly rendered one, right? and that didn't make a difference?

Jim Capillo
12-26-2003, 01:46 PM
First, are you waiting for the green light (bar) to come on?

Second, tell us very specific info as to your computer setup - including processor(s), video card, drivers, burner software, et al.

Trying to find the cause of stuttering in a VT[3] without knowing the setup is really trying to find the needle in a haystack !

bradl
12-26-2003, 02:22 PM
As Steve mentioned, rendering the selected time range creates a new file that can be used but does not change your timeline in and of itself. You must drop the new file on the timeline and remove the old parts. Now if that sounds like a bit of a hassle, using the Force Render Filter (Effects folder) will make sure the section affected by the filter is rendered for real time play right on the timeline. Still must wait for the green light though.

The real issue for productive workflow is to fine tune your system to give you consistent real-time performance. Search the forums for tips as this has been a major thread again and again.

Rich Deustachio
12-26-2003, 02:37 PM
I have noticed that since the latest build came out including the latest patch, I have been getting stuttering on even two layers with overlays. I never use to get stuttering with that small amount of layers. Also the green light is always on. It never turns off even if I place 5 layers on the timeline but it wil stutter. I am guessing that the green light is malfuntioning and it is stuttering because it hasn't finished the background rendering. But even considering that, I still have problems with stuttering with only two layers that only showed up in the last build.

Jim Capillo
12-26-2003, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Rich Deustachio
I have noticed that since the latest build came out including the latest patch, I have been getting stuttering on even two layers with overlays. I never use to get stuttering with that small amount of layers. Also the green light is always on. It never turns off even if I place 5 layers on the timeline but it wil stutter. I am guessing that the green light is malfuntioning and it is stuttering because it hasn't finished the background rendering. But even considering that, I still have problems with stuttering with only two layers that only showed up in the last build.

Hmmm..... I just finished a :30 with 3 layers and 2 overlays and it played fine. :confused:

If you can replicate it, Rich, I'd send it all in as a bug.

Rich Deustachio
12-26-2003, 03:11 PM
Jim this was on a 30 min project with about 200 clips on it and lots of .jpg logos and .png text.

Must be nice doing those :30 sec spots all the time.

Jim Capillo
12-26-2003, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by Rich Deustachio

Must be nice doing those :30 sec spots all the time.

LOL :p The only problem is, the account executives want them done yesterday, 'cause they only get paid when the spot airs. Most of the time, I feel like Paulie Teutel on American Chopper . :D

RayLarson
12-27-2003, 08:16 AM
I, also, am having the same issues. I never got stuttering with VT2 even with a number of layers. Now, I sometimes get stuttering on a 60 second piece with just 2 0r 3 layers. My green light is always on and the stuttering happens more often than not. I have tweaked my prefs and checked everything twice over....just seems like a T3 issue that needs to be resolved. I am running a dual 1.8 with 1 gig of ram, 8 IDE Drives showing 120 mb/sec transfer rate and, with T2 I was able to blast thru most anything quickly and easily. Not so with T3....While I love the new features and the fact that the CG actually works (even though it's rather primitive) I am not sure that I might be better off bact with T2 until this issue is resolved.

Chrysolithos
12-27-2003, 01:34 PM
I just started to learn the VT3 and was wondering what is the green light? Is it on the BOB? (I don't have a bob yet) My system currently only has the 2 8gig drives left over from my Frame Factory but it can still manage a few cuts only edits. I do plan on getting a proper home for my VT3, but right now I'm trying to concintrate on a Lightwave project.

RomainR
12-27-2003, 03:18 PM
the green light is found in VT-Edit right above the play button.

It's the indicator that your project will play in real time.

bradl
12-27-2003, 08:36 PM
FWIW, I found that turning down my VTEdit Cache Speed (or whatever it is called) made the most direct effect on actually having a green light that meant something. Now I have to wait a bit longer but it does not stutter.

I will experiment further after the first of the year.

The Big Finn
12-28-2003, 09:40 PM
Check the options for all your video clips in the VT Edit Control Tree... I had this same problem when I tried to play back old VT2 projects with VT3. All the clips had shadows and size controls enabled in the Control Tree by default. I don't know why this happens or if it is a problem only with PAL systems... When I disabled the shadows everything worked fine again.

I hope you get all worked out...

I've posted a few other problems to VT Troubleshooting section... so please go look there and see if you've had similar problems. The topic is "VT2 projects in VT3"...

nealroba
12-29-2003, 07:51 AM
Here are my VT-3's stats...

4 2.8 Pentium Xeons w/HT
2 Terrabytes HD
128 MB Vid Card
2 GB RAM

and the green light is on during playback, but it stutters...I'm wondering if it is because the project I'm working on is over an hour and I have a lot of layering, music and transitions. Maybe my VT-3 is stressed out and needs a vacation...Oh wait, that's me that's stressed and needs the vacation. Well, let me know if I'm demanding too much from my VT-3. Thanks.
-Rob-

Jim Capillo
12-29-2003, 09:18 AM
Are you using any MP3 files? If so, convert them to WAV's and try that.

mgrusin
12-29-2003, 11:47 AM
Rob, what throughput does the Newtek configuration utility report for your video array?

BradL is correct, if the green light never goes out, and playback still stutters, then your VT-Edit cache limit CPU setting (sp?) is probably set too high (this has been discussed before; there may be an VT3 install issue that needs to be addressed here). Try lowering it by 20% in preferences and see if things work any better; the green light will go out more, but playback should improve. (While you're in prefs, make sure your cache directory is set to somewhere on your video array, otherwise caching won't help.)

Good luck, -MG.

Rich Deustachio
12-29-2003, 04:06 PM
Well my system used to play fine with up to 4 or 5 layers without stuttering when the green light went out which was either instantly or within a few seconds. Now with the latest version the green light stays on all the time and it stutters with even 2 or 3 layers. It also is getting very sluggish when using the positioner panel. Never happened util the latest buid and patch.

RayLarson
12-31-2003, 05:58 AM
Rick, I am experiencing the same issues. VT2 was lightning fast on my machine and now I get stuttering with just 3 layers and very sluggish performance. I have tweaked my prefs until I am blue in the face....It is irritating to say the least....I am learing to live with it but not happily

RomainR
12-31-2003, 07:53 AM
It seems that VT[3] more demanding than T[2].

Just like the users, with each version we want more features.:D

sywitt
01-07-2004, 10:35 AM
It's been my experience with VT3 that the CPU and disk speed get set too high during set-up. I had to lower both of them to get less stuttering.

Sy Witt

stargatesg1
01-23-2004, 12:42 PM
I too have been having these issues.. I had it perfect then i had to reinstall xp and did everything from scratch. I am up to the latest build and stuttering has started.. i did an update from vt2 to 3 and didn't have an issue.. coudl this be the patch 2 thats causing this by chance?
as soon as i do an overlay is starts studdering like crazy till i put the force render filter in ... then it takes forever to render and playes back fine.. I used to be able to do 3 or so layers with no issue but now its just not happing like it did before. Same machine same hardware same os.. but now it doesn't work like it did.

[email protected]
chris Adams

RayLarson
01-27-2004, 07:20 PM
Still having the stuttering problems here since the new patch. I've tweaked and fussed but it don't go away. Reloaded everything I could...still no better. I think Patch 2 is a clunker.

jeremy092288
01-28-2004, 06:01 AM
Your audio isn't WMA by any chance is it?

I have learned that that causes several problems.

Rich Deustachio
01-28-2004, 05:10 PM
I have a dual 1.7 Xeon system with 6 73 gig cheetah drives.

I lowered my settings to 2.0 for the CPU and 60 for the drives and it seems to have partially solved the stuttering problem. I will still get some stuttering on sertain parts with 3 or 4 layers with overlay on and will have to put the force render under that section. Previous versions didn't do this at even higher settings.

Ric
03-02-2004, 11:40 AM
I also have got this problem with momentary skipping and occasional loss of sync as a result. Is that what you all are referring to as stuttering?

Seems like it shouldn't happen on my system with dual 2.4G processors, 2 gigs of ram, a video array throughput of 120 and that silly green light always on. But it does, frequently, and with only 2 or 3 layers of video and 1 or 2 layers of (wav) audio.

Auto config sets my cache limit at 6. Does that sound right? If I reset it, any suggestions about what to set it to? And what about the number of frames. That defaults to 4. Might increaseing or decreasing it make a difference?

If all else fails and I can't get a proper playback off the timeline (which seems ridiculous since I was getting decent playbacks for years from my Matrox card and for years before that from my Perception card), I guess I'll have to punt to output my 30 minute show to tape. I assume I can render the whole damn thing to one new rtv and it will play properly (or no?).

I've seen this "force render" filter mentioned a couple times in this forum but find no mention of it in the manual (Dick, are you there?).

Can someone please tell me what it does and how it is used?

Thanks,
Ric

Paul Lara
03-02-2004, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Ric
I've seen this "force render" filter mentioned a couple times in this forum but find no mention of it in the manual

Ric,
Force Render, found in the VT3\Effects\ folder, is used to stretch underneath problematic portions of a project. This tells VT[3] to render that section to the background cache, regardless of whether it thinks it can play it back in real-time.

Drag it below the portion of the project, and stretch it out to the desired length.

Scott Bates
03-02-2004, 12:27 PM
Force Render - place it on a track below whatever you want rendered "in the foreground" (as opposed "in the background"). It tells VT "I want you to render this section RIGHT NOW, whether you think it needs to be rendered or not. Thank you." It renders the section and puts it in your VT-Edit Cache for as long as that project's loaded. If you load another one or come back to that project later it will have to render it again.

Scott Bates
03-02-2004, 12:29 PM
Dern, Paul still types leaner and faster than I do. Must be Dew and Krispies. :D

Ric
03-02-2004, 01:26 PM
Thanks y'all. Only problem is I can't seem to predict when the stuttering will happen. Sometimes a certain section will skip and other times not. So what do I have to do, stretch the force render out to the whole 30 minutes?

But even more importantly, what about the earlier part of my post? Is there some other fix that precludes all these rendering shenanigans? And if I do use a huge chunk of drive space to render a new rtv, can I be assured that that won't skip?

My client is coming in tomorrow to review the program. I hate to have to make excuses and explain repeatedly that once it is on tape those skips and stutters won't be there.

Jim Capillo
03-02-2004, 01:40 PM
Back when I had a single P-IV, I would routinely render out projects so they wouldn't stutter. I never had one stutter after rendering.

The only difference was, I was doing :30's, so it didn't take up too much drive space.

Ric
03-02-2004, 02:03 PM
Thanks, Jim. I guess since my second raid is currently unoccupied (at least until I start a 160 minute program next week) I'll just render out the whole shebang for tomorrow's dog & pony show.

But still, Jim, Paul, anybody, any suggestions on how to just make the playback stable without all this extra horseing around (so to speak)?

Appreciatively,
Ric

Jim Capillo
03-02-2004, 02:15 PM
I had to re-read the thread to see what's already been suggested..... but I would try and lower your CPU setting to 5 or so (maybe even lower). I have dual 2.8 Xeons and autoconfig set mine to 4.8 something.

Set playback to "playback complex project"

Play with your drive settings (in prefs). I have (4) 73gb U320 drives and they are at 80mbs.

Are all your other files up to date? DirectX 9.0b ? If you have a NVidia card, what drivers are you using? Is NVidia Desktop Manager turned off?

Do you have any packet writing Burner software installed?

Try that for now..... let me know

tfrank
03-02-2004, 04:57 PM
Don't know if this helps anyone, but we noticed a "stuttering" problem on our VT2 after an outbreak of internet viruses. You see our system is networked into the house intranet. After an outbreak of viruses, our computer guru (without telling us) had the anti-virus software in our central computer room go out every hour to every machine in the building to make sure everything was OK and that no one of our 60 odd employees hadn't down loaded something bad. As soon as that request would hit our toaster computer, it would crash as the request used up so many system resources. The interm solution has been to "toast unplugged".

Ric
03-04-2004, 01:31 PM
Thanks. That is a good suggestion. I noticed just this morning that when someone at another workstation started to print something on a networked printer, it put a glitch in the playback. I'll try unplugging from the network.

Regards,
Ric

bradl
03-04-2004, 08:59 PM
I have tried all suggestions for the green light/stuttering problems. Only one setting finally made my green light mean something. VTEdit Cache CPU limit. Keep lowering it until stuttering stops on a complex layered section. If it seems to stop responding to change shut VT down, purge the cache files and set it again. Once I found the optimal setting I almost never need a force render filter anymore. I have to wait for the green light longer now but that's better than a quick green light that doesn't mean anything. On my most complex timelines (up to 2 dozen clips or overlays at once) it can take up to 3 or 4 minutes.

I am not sure where I have it set (I am not at work) but I think it is very close to 1. My system is a P4DC6+ Dual Xeon 2.2 with 2 Gbs of RAM, Ultra 160 SCSI.

I have used Force Render a lot in the past and now avoid it whenever possible. Force render filters take a lot longer and will render sections that may not even need it. Also it seems that any little tweak will cause the entire section to need to be re-rendered, something that the background renderer doesn't do.

OBroschart
03-05-2004, 09:39 AM
My VT3 is stuttering too, and never did with VT2.

Considering that this is a dual 3 gig Xeon Dell Precision 650 with a Medea RTRX Ultra 160 raid, you'd think that the machine would be immune to this problem, but it isn't.

I've brought down the VT-Edit cache CPU setting to 4, the PCI bus speed down to 32bit 33MHz 85 Mb/s, and it still stutters on more complicated segments. If anybody has settings that work on a similar computer, please pass them over.

In addition to this stuttering, I've been completely unable to get serial control of my PVW2800 Betacam deck, no matter how many times I remove my deck profiles and run the Autoconfig.

It is obvious that the problems are due to this VT3 build, and not our computers. And yet, I haven't seen any comments from Newtek about these issues and when they're expecting the fixes to be available.

Jim Capillo
03-05-2004, 10:37 AM
Try going the other way with the buss speed - I've always set mine (dual 2.8 Xeons) at 66 mhz, no limit..... at least until the new build comes out.

bradl
03-05-2004, 10:58 PM
I agree with Jim about the Bus speeds. I found lowering it made things worse.

We control BVW, PVW, DVW's and D9 all the time with no problems. You should be able to get that working. For what it's worth we us the slightly more expensive Rosetta Stone Adapter (no BOB), RS-2/8 (http://www.addenda.com/rs28.htm). You probably already know this but for those who don't there is two free pieces of software at Addenda (http://www.addenda.com/software.htm) that can help troubleshoot RS-422 problems: WSony II (http://www.addenda.com/INSTALL.EXE) and ComCheck32 (http://www.addenda.com/comchk 32.zip).

The problem may also reside in the VCR itself. We had two identical DVW's with all menu settings the same and one would work, one would not. The second one worked fine with our Axial Editor then started acting up there as well about a year later. Replaced a bad board in it and now it works fine.

OBroschart
03-08-2004, 07:38 AM
Hey Bradl,

Are you controlling your decks with the latest VT3 build?

I know my cables and decks are working as I use them all the time with Incite's V-lan controller with another PC.

Do I need to pay special attention to any serial settings on either the VCR or the editing PC?

Thanks for the tip on Addenda's test software. I'll check it out.

OBroschart
03-08-2004, 07:46 AM
Jim, Brad, thanks for the assistance.

I maxxed out my bus speed and the machine still stutters at one particular place (when the credits start filling 30% of the screen, to when they are almost over). The force render filter makes it go away.

This is a test scene:
-full screen RTV clip
-same rtv clip, 25% size, overlayed, centered, slowmo'ed, with shadow and border
-credit roll rtv clip, ovelayed, with shadow

My render light stays green.

bradl
03-08-2004, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by OBroschart
Are you controlling your decks with the latest VT3 build? Yes, Patch 2 (4744)
I know my cables and decks are working as I use them all the time with Incite's V-lan controller with another PCHave you successfully controlled a deck with the VT PC yet? The utilities mentioned above can help you troubleshoot 422 problems with the PC itself. The WSony II is a basic machine controller and if that is working then you know your Serial Port, Cable and VCR setup is good enough for VT3. If WSony II won't work, then the ComCheck utility helps you troubleshoot your PC port making sure it is available and not being captured or locked by another app or device.
Do I need to pay special attention to any serial settings on either the VCR or the editing PC?Not that I know of. I think the port settings (baud, bit, etc) is set automatically by the software and at the VCR end we have not had to set anything (that's not to say that a setting couldn't be set weirdly in the VCR menus)

Videonut
04-05-2004, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by Paul Lara
Ric,
Force Render, found in the VT3\Effects\ folder, is used to stretch underneath problematic portions of a project. This tells VT[3] to render that section to the background cache, regardless of whether it thinks it can play it back in real-time.

Drag it below the portion of the project, and stretch it out to the desired length.


Paul,

The location that you mentioned does not yield any Force Render Filter. You are talking about the system file location of VT3 or do I not have it installed.

Paul Lara
04-05-2004, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by Videonut
The location that you mentioned does not yield any Force Render Filter.

Do you have an Effects folder inside VT[3]?
It's in there on any install I've worked with.

Videonut
04-05-2004, 11:08 AM
Paul,

There is no such animal on my computer. Even with a search on the system drive. No folder found.

ted
04-05-2004, 12:29 PM
Somehow you must have deleted it. You can get it off the "Content" CD that came with your VT System.

Videonut
04-05-2004, 01:48 PM
After thinking about what has been said on this thread, I decided to look on the VT3 disk. You were correct, I do not know how it was deleted or what but after reinstalling, there it is. Thanks.

ted
04-05-2004, 02:11 PM
Glad you found it. There's some valuable stuff on there. Explore and have fun!