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rednova
03-21-2018, 07:24 PM
Hi:

I have been learning lightwave/3d for a few years.
I always had the dream of making a movie in the kind of japanese animation.
All I need is that the animation looks like anime, nothing more.
I just realized, that instead of learning a 2d package, and spending years learning 2d,
all I have to do is apply the cel shade filter in lightwave, and then voila,
instant anime looks.
All I need is that it looks like anime, and the cel shader does exactly that.
But I am up for a challenge, and would love to spend a few years learning
2d animation, just for fun and to learn a new skill.
I would love to master 2d animation and to make anime.
Any thoughts about this ?

roboman
03-21-2018, 09:15 PM
From what I understand most of the anime is now done in 3d with cell shading. On the other hand I first started doing animation by drawing pictures in the corners of books, also have a laptop setup with monkeyjam right now and am using it to do some brick movies with my girlfriend. It's all flavors of the same thing. A digital camera is a much better deal then a 8 or 16mm camera, so it's much more fun to learn now then it use to be.... You can even use your cell phone. It's basically free to give it a try and decide if you want to go any further.

Rayek
03-22-2018, 04:23 PM
I have been teaching myself 2d animation in the past two years, and improving my (cartoon/animation) drawing skills. It's a blast, and has had a positive impact on ALL my work. It's easier to communicate my ideas visually as well.

It's fun, and most importantly, it gets me doing something completely different which is good for my overall well-being.

Last Christmas when I got together with the whole family, I drew a simple landscape with clouds on my Uncle's new snazzy iPad Pro to show my niece of 14 some techniques. My brother passed us, and glanced at it, scoffing I shouldn't be downloading nice pictures from the web and instead draw/paint it myself.

My niece and I looked at him, and I said "I drew this. It's simple to draw stuff like this". He stared at me and the iPad pro in bewilderment, and didn't know what to say, and after an awkward 5 seconds decided to walk away. Well, he'd never seen me draw before, so it was a bit of a shocker to him, I guess.

That's when I realized I had actually gotten better at drawing stuff without realizing it. And it was just gold to see that expression on his face :-P

I spend some time on drawing and doodling almost every day now. It is very relaxing, and I am drawing things I couldn't have imagined just two years ago. I look at some of my drawings lately, and then realize I just drew that drawing, and it is a very strange experience, because my brain somehow hasn't accepted the fact yet that I can draw at that level now. It's as if someone else drew it. So odd.

Put shortly: start drawing today. It will have a positive impact on all aspects of your work and your inner spirit. Most importantly DO NOT JUDGE yourself for bad art. Look at it from a detached perspective, and tell yourself where you can improve your drawing next time. Be pragmatic and focus on the things you should/want improve.

And even more important: DO NOT BE A PERFECTIONIST. Make mistakes, and have fun. Persistence trumps talent.

Ma3rk
03-22-2018, 08:49 PM
Hi:

I have been learning lightwave/3d for a few years.
I always had the dream of making a movie in the kind of japanese animation.
All I need is that the animation looks like anime, nothing more.
I just realized, that instead of learning a 2d package, and spending years learning 2d,
all I have to do is apply the cel shade filter in lightwave, and then voila,
instant anime looks.
All I need is that it looks like anime, and the cel shader does exactly that.
But I am up for a challenge, and would love to spend a few years learning
2d animation, just for fun and to learn a new skill.
I would love to master 2d animation and to make anime.
Any thoughts about this ?

Well, for what it's worth, none of my drawing endowed friends are ever wanting for work & most are making in the six figure range. Most came by in naturally though, drawing since childhood. I'm envious.

Ironically, even thought they routinely work with Photoshop, they're all somewhat technologically challenged so having animation or even After Effects skills would be a plus.

kyuzo
03-23-2018, 04:15 AM
To me, drawing is a fundamental artistic skill, used to rough out ideas of objects, shapes, textures, etc. As far as 2D animation goes, even if you just use drawing skills to block out keyframes, it's a fast and easy way to test ideas.
Though none of them are good enough to be framed, everything I do starts as a pencil sketch. If I did more animation, I imagine I'd do the same but with storyboards.

I have fairly recently discovered Andrew Loomis' books. My god, I wish I had an art teacher as good as he was. He's re-ignited my passion for drawing with knowledge I feel I should have been given at school/college...

And just to echo Rayek's closing comment, I saw a great sign the other day which read ' Mistakes are proof that you are trying'.

raymondtrace
03-23-2018, 07:03 AM
What differences do we perceive?

3D animation renders to 2D.

3D animation (cgi, stop-motion) is prepared with 2D storyboards. Drawing/composition is still very relevant for 3D artists.

2D apps have similar tools/skills as 3D apps (bones, compositing, timelines, dopesheets)

Sure, learn 2D animation but any particular 2D app is not required.

rednova
03-25-2018, 04:21 PM
Thank you all for answering my question. I enjoyed reading from you.
@Rayek
What software do you use for cartoon/animation ?
To all:
What software do you suggest be good to learn cartoon animation on PC computers ?
Thank you all !!!

sunnyhoney
04-09-2018, 01:34 PM
IMO, still very worth it. I'm currently working for a small game company and we never hire in-house artists, but would often give them contracts. The good ones we give 4-5 contracts a month at around $300-$600 per contract, sometimes a thousand. Depends on how much needs to be done. We're an Asia-based company though, so those figures may or may not look appealing.

raymondtrace
04-09-2018, 02:53 PM
There are some free options to get going in 2D animation:

Krita
https://docs.krita.org/Animation
(a good image editing program to have, even without animation)
Commercial alternative: Photoshop

OpenToonz
https://opentoonz.github.io/e/
Commercial alternative: ToonBoom

Synfig
https://www.synfig.org/
Commercial alternative: Moho (AnimeStudio)

Pete_GF
04-16-2018, 10:11 AM
I played around with OpenToonz and you can use it both for simple frame by frame drawing and for more complicated tasks.

When it comes to 2d animation, it will develop your skills for 3d as well. You won't base only on automatic keyframes, it demands work on basically every frame.

Drawing itself gives the most creative freedom. I studied architectural design, and we were forbidden to use any CAD or 3D software at the concept stage, to not get restricted by the tools. When you have only hammer everything is a nail. A piece of paper and a pencil doesn't narrow your ideas at all.

The only thing I noticed is that after years of drawing I really understood how light works only when I started to work in 3D :)

Stlfinder3dM
04-18-2018, 09:19 AM
Hello.Learn from everything is definitely worth it buddy. But we are in constant evolution, and it would be more useful to enter the world of 3D now the technology is so advanced that 2D is hardly used anymore.

sunnyhoney
04-28-2018, 07:23 AM
Definitely learning 2D is worth it and you will need it maybe in your project in the future. Having knowledge with 2D and 3D will help you with your designs. I am planning to learn it too and my colleagues are teaching me during my breaktime. We have graphic artist that are great is 2d and 3D they are also making some designs on different games.

erikals
04-28-2018, 11:57 AM
animation will be fun for you no matter what you aim for

-Southpark anims
-Celshaded anims
-Artistic anims
-Pixar anims
-Photoreal anims
-Mocap systems

CA will be fun, you have a ton of roads to choose from  :)

for 2D animation i would consider IKBooster


all I have to do is apply the cel shade filter in Lightwave, and then voila,
instant anime looks.
totally agree, stick with LW for this. + LW can add 3D buildings and SFX/dynamics easily

you can also mix classic hand-drawn 2D and LW 2D in different ways. possibilities = endless

no matter how you go about this project, you cannot go wrong :)

erikals
04-28-2018, 12:06 PM
The only thing I noticed is that after years of drawing I really understood how light works only when I started to work in 3D :)

so true   :)

Stlfinder3dM
05-09-2018, 12:12 PM
Definitely learning 2D is worth it and you will need it maybe in your project in the future. Having knowledge with 2D and 3D will help you with your designs. I am planning to learn it too and my colleagues are teaching me during my breaktime. We have graphic artist that are great is 2d and 3D they are also making some designs on different games.

We are in agreement. In general it is always important to learn a little bit of everything, and more in this world of 2d and 3d that is infinite since we can use it in all areas of work, since digital visualization is important for any project, such as civil works. I dare to leave you my website where I have a variety of downloadable 3d models that could be useful for any project, and don't be too sure to share your opinions with me about this. Greetings!

Visite: 3dModels (https://www.stlfinder.com/)

erikals
05-10-2018, 06:51 AM
you should also check this video >


12-Principles-of-Animation
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?157007-12-Principles-of-Animation

Greenlaw
05-10-2018, 11:22 AM
I always had the dream of making a movie in the kind of japanese animation.
All I need is that the animation looks like anime, nothing more.
I just realized, that instead of learning a 2d package, and spending years learning 2d,
all I have to do is apply the cel shade filter in lightwave, and then voila,
instant anime looks.
All I need is that it looks like anime, and the cel shader does exactly that.
But I am up for a challenge, and would love to spend a few years learning
2d animation, just for fun and to learn a new skill.
I would love to master 2d animation and to make anime.
Any thoughts about this ?

It depends: Do you like drawing and painting? Even if you do, 2D animation can be very tedious work.

I've been working mostly as a 2D cartoon animator for the last 3 1/2 years, and I do like it...a lot. It's not necessarily easier than creating 3D animation, just different challenges. Obviously, it helps if you know how to draw and like doing it. I mean, really, REALLY like drawing. If you're wanting to create frame by frame animation, you're going to be doing that...A LOT.

If you don't want to commit yourself to full-on FBF animation, there are in-between programs that let you rig your drawings like a puppet using bones, IK, and morphing. We use a program called Moho Pro to do all the 2D animation segments for Boss Baby: Back In Business on Netflix. I like Moho's system because in many ways it resembles LightWave's rigging system. I've also used it for 2D segments in King Julien, Puss In Boots, and The Croods on Netflix. For this type of rigged puppet animation, I think it's one of the best tools out there. Moho Pro is inexpensive and it periodically goes on sale.

For FBF, I use Harmony at work, and TVPaint at home. Both are excellent programs. They each take different approaches to FBF but the fundamentals are the same: you still need to draw your animation. These two are fairly expensive animation programs, but if you just want basic animation tools there are a few free options. I've been playing with Krita 4 lately, and it's completely free. The animation features resembles TVPaint but it's much simpler and stripped down. That said, it's enough to get started and see if you like doing FBF. Other free options are OpenToonz and of course now Blender with Grease Pencil. Even Photoshop, although not free, has basic FBF tools. I used Photoshop to animate water splashes and ripples in Boss Baby a while back.

(BTW, Moho Pro recently added FBF tools but they're still a little klunky to use, and I typically fall back to Harmony or TVP for complicated FBF animations. I'm told by the devs that they're working on improving Moho Pro's drawing and FBF in a future release. I'm really looking forward to that because I do most of my 2D work in Moho Pro these days.)

My advice is, if you're curious about learning 2D animation--FBF, rigged, or both--just do it and see if you like it. There are several free and inexpensive 2D animation programs out there and tons of tutorial videos on YouTube, so there's little excuse not to get started.

Good luck and have fun! It will be hard work but personally I think the payoff is worth it. :)

Greenlaw
05-10-2018, 11:35 AM
Just for fun, here are two 2D animations created by my 11-year old daughter Sienna, and she's won regional PTA awards for both of them.

Sienna created this one last year when she was 10, using TVPaint:


https://vimeo.com/235299806/5049fa51ca

(Continued...)

erikals
05-10-2018, 11:41 AM
nice animation by Sienna there :) it's fun to see that anyone can do it, and continuously excel to new heights :)


by the way...
some LightWave NPR renders
just for inspiration

what i like about animating in 3D is that it can be very complex, yet fast to animate.

https://i.imgur.com/8w3fDMf.jpg

Greenlaw
05-10-2018, 11:41 AM
(...continued)

And Sienna made this one when she was 9, animated on an iPad:


https://vimeo.com/185614189

She draws and animates every day. Currently, she really likes using Krita.

Believe it or not, my wife and I don't offer Sienna much instruction, just occasional technical advice when she asks for it. She's just very passionate about drawing and animation, and she figures out a lot of stuff by just trying it herself.

So, don't just talk about it...do it! :)

erikals
05-10-2018, 12:48 PM
Beautiful! :)

rednova
05-10-2018, 08:06 PM
Hi:
I just wanted to again thank everyone for replying.
I loved watching Sienna's animations.
I spent a few years doing pencil drawings for fun, I did not advance much but enyoyed doing it very much.
I really want to learn to make 2d animation plus drawing and painting.
I want to make 2d animation like disney's Mulan, and like japanese animation.
I have something to share: I have an old commodore amiga 2000 with a special
2d animation software called 'Moviesetter'. I started learning moviesetter and I love it very much.
Is very easy to use and learn, and it completely can do the kind of animation i like.
The system is paid for, and I love using it. A famous amigan called Eric Schwartz made beautiful
animations with it. Moviesetter can easily make the kind of animations i want to make, and
I love learning it. I love moviesetter's ease of use.
I would really love to learn a pc cartoon software, it would be more powerful than the amiga,
but to tell you the truth, my heart is telling me to stick to moviesetter, I love it very much
and feel I can grow really big with it. I could output moviesetter's anims to video or digital
or convert them to avi.
I think i would love to learn a good pc 2d animation software, but I also think that
moviesetter is right on.
Any thoughts ?

erikals
05-10-2018, 08:33 PM
Moviesetter might be alright, but i'm sure many other PC apps would be better/faster.

i recall the DeluxePaint days also, ImageFX, Scala, ++ but PC apps are way ahead these days.

my recommendation, only stick to Moviesetter if you totally love it.

that said, yep, learning new software can be frustrating.


but, i really need to sleep now... agh! :)  Zzzzzz...

rednova
05-11-2018, 07:25 PM
Hi Erikals:

I have amiga forever to emulate amiga on my pc. A few days ago i was able to convert moviesetter to the format amiga forever
needs to run on the pc. Now i can fully run moviesetter on my pc under emulation. Not only it works great, but I can also use
the 1 gig ram and the 60 ghz hard disk space. Everything works fine, but I can use it well on the pc. I love using moviesetter
and is great I can use it on my pc.