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Ross_DD
12-25-2003, 02:14 PM
(sorry for my very bad english language)

I have seen LW8 previews; it's all very nice but... where is Modeler?
There is nothing about it...
I hope in some enhanced features in Modeler also like a VIPER integration (finally!) and some UV-texture painting tool (without external application...).
LW is not just animation and special-FX but it's a great program for graphic-design and illustration too.
I'm waiting for...

Thank You very much.

little5points
12-25-2003, 02:27 PM
Me, too. But it seems like their focus was on Layout. They haven't even announced anything on Modeler except for the ambiguous "better workflow" and Edge Tools (which is a very cool addition)

Maybe they will announce more Modeler changes AFTER the release :)

prospector
12-25-2003, 04:56 PM
Don't know how much of this will be intigrated into modeler and how much into layout, but I got this message back when I inquired about a plug-in..

"But I'll give you a hint, I work with DAZ a lot and there will be a baby Mimic included with LW8 as well as an entire new Morph system that I wrote."

Hope it works well. It looks interesting, especially if includes a radius morph system.

Nemoid
12-26-2003, 06:06 AM
hmm! great news in your post, Prospector!!

I think Nt focused Lw development more into animation for now
enhancing greatly Layout workflow and animation power, including rigging.

about modeler's tools, I think that with the only implementation and integration of Ikeda power tools to substitute some basic modelling tools lacks , workflow will be good.(and we know that there's not only this in modeler)
ok there are many things wich I'd like to see in modeler, like edges selection, manipulation and related tools, some more interactive tools and some reworked editor (layer editor for example)

I will be surely happy with enhancements for animation and also endomorph so I can't wait for tools about Prospector talks!!

one thing i'd like the most would be weightmaps in layout for a complete char rigging into layout.

surely Nt will continue Lw development in 8.x releases so that other important areas like modeler and rendering will be greatly enhanced.

hrgiger
12-26-2003, 06:10 AM
Well some of the best news I've heard about the new dynamics are that weight maps work on them. MD would have been 10 times as good as it was if only weight maps could have worked on them.

cresshead
12-26-2003, 06:22 AM
the news that a "mimic" capability is going to be in lw 8 is great news, i hope it get confirmed in the feature list we're waiting for as lip sync is tiresome in most 3d apps and as such ususally has to be improved with a commercial plugin release such as voice 0 matic for 3ds max [$299] so the prospect of a auto lip sync capability in lightwave like that of ventriliquist [from where mimic came from] is i hope a reality and not "vapour ware" for lightwave 8.

...I wish the feature list was out for lightwave 8....

steve g

prospector
12-26-2003, 06:32 AM
Maby now that Mimic is at ver2, ver1 might be included, kinda like Sas Lite.
It will work for the basics but if you want a full blown app then get the upgrade.
Maby

I will take him at his word that they were written by him, and we'll see if they get implamented in the core or just as add-ons.

cresshead
12-26-2003, 06:50 AM
just been looking on the website

http://arcana.daz3d.com/index.php?id=87

and mimic does look and act like that of ventriliquist, the 3dsmax plugin which i saw demoed at digital media world in 2000 or 2001 in london...i'm really hoping that this gets put into lightwave 8 and that maybe mimic 2 get's to be a commercial plugin for lightwave 8+ in the future as well.

steve g

Yog
12-26-2003, 09:52 AM
Ah, that confirms it.

Newtek had said there was going to be edge chamfering capability in LW8. There were a couple free plug-ins that did this, just wasn't sure which one they were going to include, but I had a feeling it might be the one from DAZ.

Unlike Powertools, Daz's edge bevel is still available for free download.
If you want to try it before LW8 is released, you can get it here,
http://www.daz3d.com/pages/dp/development/EdgeBevelP.zip

Kvaalen
12-26-2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by Yog
Ah, that confirms it.

Newtek had said there was going to be edge chamfering capability in LW8. There were a couple free plug-ins that did this, just wasn't sure which one they were going to include, but I had a feeling it might be the one from DAZ.


Proton already showed a screen shot of an edge beveler in modeler that worked just like DAZ Edge Bevel. I just hope they got rid of the bugs that made it crash.

Ross_DD
12-27-2003, 06:37 AM
Hi,

with sincerity and humbleness, i don't understand Your excessive enthusiasm about new LW8 Modeler features...
Believe me, there is not great enhancement, up till now...
A sort of "mimic" tool is a great feature?... Mah!...
Is PowerTools an another "great" Modeler-feature?.... Please...
I think Luxology Modo is the "natural" evolution of Modeler and NT have not release any important features for that reason.
I think that will be a bundle with LW8 and Modo, for sure...
Instead of buying one software, we'll buy... two software, or three, four and too many others, if You want some tools about UV-painting, edge manipulation, etc...
And also Layout have not implemented any power plugin, like G2, Impact, Napalm, Messiah...
Instead there is Ortho Pack, D-Storm FX...(with respect)
Why NT don't want bring LW to a big level, real high-end software, as Maya or XSI?
LW have superior native quality of rendering without external render-modules, the best polygonal-modeling tools, the best surfacing-system and also it's the number one in intuitive methodology and third-part software compatibility, the best
high-res image quality, and others...
But always there is some obsolete or lacks features too...

Everyway, i don't want reduce Your enthusiasm, absolutely, and i don't want say hard critics with superficiality and before the definitive release is on.
I'm waiting for LW8 me too and LW is the best "3D-tool" for me too, of course.
I don't like all the other packages (i had tested everyone...), I like LW!
This is the real reason of my opinion: a real and power enhancement of LW, not just medium-quality plugins integration...

Than You Very Much.

(and sorry for my very bad english language...)

Nemoid
12-27-2003, 07:59 AM
When I talk about enhancements of Lw 8 i'm talking about the development of Lw with the current structure. taking Lw to the level of Maya and especially XSI needs a rewrite work, just because problems of Lw derive from the code at the base of the app. the current structure.

Maya, XSI and Max are all being rewritten at a certain point. while Lw was developed on the old structure, wich brough many probs of tools real integration and efficienty working together. a rewrite is a huge job, requires time and efforts, and must be done.

so, now we have Nt team currently working to enhance Lw with the current structure, fixing probs in some way and more.

but the real job wich Lw needs for sure is a modern development in a new environment for an integrated, flexible and deeper app ispired by the good strenghts we have currently, for sure.

this could also be the Lux work in this period.(after all they are the original Lw creators) but Modo will be an other app and therefore smth different.so, we will see.

Nt could do the same with Lw while mantaining Lw 8 for some time. wich seems to me the only way to go for a serious future of our preferred app. :)

cresshead
12-27-2003, 10:06 AM
just a word or two about newtek in comparison to discreet, alias, avid and maxon [not inc luxology as they do not have any product shipping as yet]

1.newtek give you a mac and windows version when you buy lightwave..you choose which to run it on...and can swap at any time you wish...just move the dongle over..
[with maxon or alias you have to buy the platform you want to run your app on as well as the app itself...and will pay a fee to move from say mac to windows]

2.newtek give you the option of selling lightwave if you wish so you can buy a second hand version and transfer the liecence if you wish.[ an no go situation with aliad and discreet for example]

3.point upgrades are free...so 7.5 was a simple FREE download..and that's not the case with most 3d apps [maxon and alias for example]

...a point upgrade from maya4.5 to maya 5.0 is 899
...a point upgrade from cinema 8 to 8.5 is around $100

4.upgrade costs are a stable "one price" with newtek's lightwave...if yo have lw5.6, 6.0 or 7.0 the upgrade price to lightwave 8 is the same ..they do not penalise you for missing out on the versions in between..3dsmax for example is 595 per version...if you have version 4 and want version 6 you be paying 2 x 595 to get the 3dsmax 6.0 discs and manual.

4a.newtek give a sweetner for early adopters who pre pay for lightwave 8 with either 3 dvd's of training for lightwave or a full featured compositing app called digital fusion plus [which i have yet to install....[note to self...must do this soon!!!] whicch is pretty amazing really and not to be sniffed at!

5.you can talk to newtek and have a say in it's development to a degree...they actually listen and encourage debate about new features in lightwave.

6.lightwave is still "THE BEST" out of the box 3d app that can deliver stunning results..i'd say the next best app would be maya complete but you'll be paying twice as much for it...i have considered it...and will continuse to do so but lightwave 8 by what we've seen so far will fill what "gaps" i have inlightwave 7.5.

oh yeah and lightwave is cool!

;)

Nemoid
12-27-2003, 10:20 AM
I could also add free unlimited rendering nodes to that. I like Newtek policy very much from this POV.

truely, when i say things about Lw rewriting and development its because I see many many strenghts just now with its current version.

now think to a Lw modern version inspired by the current one...:)

a company cannot undervalue such a possibility.

hrgiger
12-27-2003, 10:37 AM
Ross,

I couldn't tell from your post if this is what you meant but are you saying that somehow Newtek is assoicated with Luxology in any way, shape, or form?

Because, I can tell you that is most likely not true.

Ross_DD
12-28-2003, 04:32 AM
Hi,

with max respects, just a word or two about some questions...

i'm NOT say that LW is unprofitable or gapping software.
My point of view is there is not new great and impressive features about LW8 MODELER, "UP TILL NOW".
With all respects, PowerTools is the only known new feature and for me is too little for the real needs of LW users.
This my opinion only.

About Lux and LW8 "future" bundle, we will see it...
There is not any concrete form of Lux+NT collaboration that we know it;
It's right Your answers and i'm sorry for my inappropriate considerations about that.
I know LW vantages, technical and monetary also, but...
have Your ideas a price?
Do You think about Your ideas and ispiration with money?
I don't like it.... And i don't think it...
My favourite 3D-tool is LW, for personal and working uses.
My choise was LW for his power functions not for monetary vantage.
Only i hope LW as a "complete" 3D environment workspace, with all possible and necessary integrated features without too much external plugins.
That's it!

Also, there is not any preview, video or screenshots about new Modeler 8 interface or features. That's really true and You can't say not...

Why?

I'ld happy to know Your opinions about that.

Also, do You like a VIPER enhancement as Worley-G2, in Modeler also?
Do You like some UV-texture painting tools in Modeler without external modules?
Do You like some implementation of most power LW plugins, as DR, etc?

This is that i would tell in my post.
Only that...
If this mean a complete rewritting of software structure, i don't know it: i'm a user only.

Everyway i "love" LW me too as You and LW is THE BEST for me too.

Thank You Very Much.

hrgiger
12-28-2003, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by Ross_DD
I know LW vantages, technical and monetary also, but...
have Your ideas a price?
Do You think about Your ideas and ispiration with money?
I don't like it.... And i don't think it...
My favourite 3D-tool is LW, for personal and working uses.
My choise was LW for his power functions not for monetary vantage.


You bet my ideas have a price. There would be no sense in me trying to think that I can realize my personal visions or creativity with software that I cannot afford. What good is XSI or Maya going to do me when I couldn't afford to upgrade them everytime there was a new release? I had to sell a few things so that I could afford the LW8 upgrade this time. I'm in school right now so there's a finite amount of money that I can spend for my hobby. So monetary advantage is definately something I consider.

But it's price is only one of the things I love about Lightwave.

Ross_DD
12-28-2003, 01:21 PM
Hi,

It's Your choise and I respect it.
Maybe my reality is different from Yours...
In my country job is very difficult;
i don't despite money-value of course.
i don't know what mean that "i want realize my creativity with software that i cannot afford"...
i don't have this dilettantistic opinion.
i know my language is not perfect, i'm very sorry...
I have worked (and i'm still working) hardly for buy my hardware and my software.
i like LW because i'm right with majority of its functions and tools not for low-cost price, no matter how it's a great vantage and one of many good reasons for buying it.
Anyway i respect Your opinion, with sincerity.
Maybe LW is perfect for You and i respect it also...
My point of view is LW need some enhancement and new features don't give me a great enthusiasm, for Modeler in particular.
The "problem" is not upgrade cost but new modeling features that i don't have seen, (i repeat) UP TILL NOW.

Maybe there is not previews of new Modeler features or because Modeler is the same of previous version or it will be deeply rinnovate (as i hope for some aspects) or Layout and Modeler will be unified...
We will see...

Thank You very much.