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Philbert
03-16-2018, 06:21 AM
March is coming to a close soon and I just wanted to be sure that I can still get the discount if I can't put together the money by the end of the month. I am on post-charter. I think I can do it, but just in case.

kyuzo
03-16-2018, 06:44 AM
I'd like to know the same.. I'm on 2015, and was going to upgrade by the end of March, but redundancy is looming, and can't risk any non-essential outlay until I know what's happening..

hrgiger
03-16-2018, 10:16 AM
Yes I was told when I wrote to ask that the price would be made clear before the end of March so people could make their decision. Lets go NT, get on the ball.

Chuck
03-16-2018, 03:00 PM
When the introductory pricing offer ends for LightWave 3D 2018, upgrade pricing for HC licenses will revert to their previous HC pricing, with any other special terms for which a specific license may be eligible accounted for. The registration system is aware of non-HC licenses and for those licenses, a user will see a Buy Now button in their account. For HC and any special licenses, the user will see a "Contact US" button. The staff will have the information to provide the correct price for an upgrade on each license.

In practical terms, some licenses were upgraded under offers that will still allow upgrade at $295 after March 31st, others will be eligible for $395 pricing. Subject to change as there are still internal discussions on the matter, but tentatively standard license upgrades from 2015 will be $495, and upgrades from older versions will be $695. A formal announcement will be forthcoming.

Please note that I will update this message as needed as I get new information.

Philbert
03-16-2018, 10:47 PM
Thanks Chuck. I don't see anything about Buy Now or anything like that so I used to Contact Us link to ask.

djwaterman
03-17-2018, 03:56 AM
To be clear, NT will not be honoring the promises made by Rob Powers.

Snosrap
03-17-2018, 08:34 AM
To be clear, NT will not be honoring the promises made by Rob Powers.

Kind of looks that way doesn't it.

hrgiger
03-17-2018, 04:08 PM
To be clear, NT will not be honoring the promises made by Rob Powers.

Yep. http://www.cgchannel.com/2015/09/newtek-announces-new-lightwave-pricing/

"The cost of an upgrade becomes $295 if you’re using the current version of the software... so the new pricing rewards users who stay current."

SBowie
03-17-2018, 04:30 PM
Yep. http://www.cgchannel.com/2015/09/newtek-announces-new-lightwave-pricing/

"The cost of an upgrade becomes $295 if you’re using the current version of the software... so the new pricing rewards users who stay current."I know there's a lot of confusion about policies, but you're quoting a post that someone wrote to CG Channel (as opposed to a press release) which states at the outset "Most of the information below comes from a long, and initially quite confusing, thread on the NewTek forum, but we think we’ve picked out all of the important details."

I admit that I haven't taken time this afternoon to read through that 732 post thread to try to do the same, but I do think it might be more helpful to point to something official to support one's claim. Details of promo offers are generally posted on the website and announced in press releases. Sometimes threads that attempt to clarify matters can wind up actually muddying the waters a bit (which no-one wants, believe me) ... just sayin'.

Again, NewTek doesn't want to shortchange anyone; to the best of my knowledge, up until today every one of those who pursued their upgrade via the one on one mechanism that was offered has been satisfied with the outcome.

hrgiger
03-17-2018, 06:43 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1445902&viewfull=1#post1445902

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1445907&viewfull=1#post1445907

(here I even asked for clarification) http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1445959&viewfull=1#post1445959

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1445991&viewfull=1#post1445991

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446054&viewfull=1#post1446054


http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446067&viewfull=1#post1446067

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446135&viewfull=1#post1446135

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446136&viewfull=1#post1446136

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446141&viewfull=1#post1446141

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446177&viewfull=1#post1446177

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446065&viewfull=1#post1446065

It was also discussed in a few other threads but I trust that's enough "official" info which includes both past and present employee/s of NT representatives to support the claim. The deal previously was to get current with 2015. And after that point, as long as you remained current, your upgrade to Next and subsequent releases would be 295 as a loyalty reward. Rob said Charter people would be offered some other type of promotions moving forward.

SBowie
03-17-2018, 07:51 PM
That's more relevant, though I'm not sure the quotes offer an absolutely definitive answer to every question. My opinion matters no more in this than anyone else's, but an interpretation that seems to commit Newtek to any sort of everlasting, completely open-ended pricing arrangement makes my antennae tingle. I don't see anything here that leaves no other possible interpretation, and would still like to see the official press release describing the promotion.

Snosrap
03-17-2018, 08:43 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1445902&viewfull=1#post1445902

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1445907&viewfull=1#post1445907

(here I even asked for clarification) http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1445959&viewfull=1#post1445959

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1445991&viewfull=1#post1445991

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446054&viewfull=1#post1446054


http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446067&viewfull=1#post1446067

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446135&viewfull=1#post1446135

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446136&viewfull=1#post1446136

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446141&viewfull=1#post1446141

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446177&viewfull=1#post1446177

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446065&viewfull=1#post1446065

It was also discussed in a few other threads but I trust that's enough "official" info which includes both past and present employee/s of NT representatives to support the claim. The deal previously was to get current with 2015. And after that point, as long as you remained current, your upgrade to Next and subsequent releases would be 295 as a loyalty reward. Rob said Charter people would be offered some other type of promotions moving forward.

Thanks for finding these Steve.

Chris S. (Fez)
03-18-2018, 01:28 AM
How long does the "Staying Current" grace period last? If a user has not upgraded to 2018 by March 31st they are not "current", correct?

I would extend this grace period to the end of Siggraph for this release only. Next release, 45 days: 30 day free trial plus 15 days to purchase.

Also, it is probably fair to apply inflation to the $295 2015 figure.

hrgiger
03-18-2018, 01:47 AM
How long does the "Staying Current" grace period last? If a user has not upgraded to 2018 by March 31st they are not "current", correct?

I would extend this grace period to the end of Siggraph for this release only. Next release, 45 days: 30 day free trial plus 15 days to purchase.

Also, it is probably fair to apply inflation to the $295 2015 figure.


Current in the past meant prior to the release of the next version of the software. There was never any mention of any promotional period before this past December. The $295 was meant to be a permanent price to 2015 owners until whatever version after LW Next would be released.

Chris S. (Fez)
03-18-2018, 02:54 AM
Current in the past meant prior to the release of the next version of the software.

Is that in writing somewhere? This is the only point that still seems ambiguous to me after looking at your links.

Ztreem
03-18-2018, 04:10 AM
Is that in writing somewhere? This is the only point that still seems ambiguous to me after looking at your links.

As I rememver it, it was meant that you could upgrade for 295 as long as the next next major release is not released. I donít gonna try to find it as I donít bother that much anymore. Iíll take a look at LW2021 and see if something interesting has happend by then. Right now I have fun elsewhere. Iíll stay at 2015 for now and I will never ever upgrade to LW2018 if I have to pay more than the $295 that I was promised when I upgraded to 2015.

Chris S. (Fez)
03-18-2018, 05:49 AM
Happy with 2018 here. Extremely responsive on bug reports. I suppose NewTek should honor the upgrade path up until the next release but clearly define " current".

Current could be upgrading within, say, 2 months of the hopefully yearly release. People who are not current past this release lose the $295 (plus inflation) locked-in pricing.

So $319 for LW2019 for legacy current customers...$395 to $495 for post-promo customers or legacy customers who let their $295 (+ inflation) upgrade path lapse.

hrgiger
03-18-2018, 07:59 AM
Is that in writing somewhere? This is the only point that still seems ambiguous to me after looking at your links.

How is that ambiguous? There was never any mention of the $295 being a promotional price or a limited time price. Our charter pricing was also based on us staying current. Our charter pricing allows us to not upgrade until right before the next version would come out so why would this be any different?

The fact that they've turned this $295 price into a limited time price is not what we have been sold these last 3 years.

Chris S. (Fez)
03-18-2018, 08:29 AM
How is that ambiguous? There was never any mention of the $295 being a promotional price or a limited time price. Our charter pricing was also based on us staying current. Our charter pricing allows us to not upgrade until right before the next version would come out so why would this be any different?

The fact that they've turned this $295 price into a limited time price is not what we have been sold these last 3 years.

I don't think "current" was ever defined in fine print. The lack of clarity gives Newtek room to remove ambiguity moving forward. Management seemingly made a commitment here and I agree they should honor the $295 through 2018.

With Autodesk, before the ruthless forced subscription, there was often a grace period where you could upgrade and get some imminent next version free or renew subscription without paying a penalty even after letting subscription lapse. So I was curious to see if NewTek ever committed in writing to a particular definition of "current".

SBowie
03-18-2018, 08:52 AM
The $295 was meant to be a permanent price to 2015 owners until whatever version after LW Next would be released.This is the bit where I also feel there could be a lack of clarity (again, not that anything I think has any particular weight; NewTek Sales and LW3DG have been poring over all of this to try to figure it out - which is a bit 'horse/barndoor', but it is what it is ...)

For example, it could be that the intention is/was to provide all qualifying 2015 owners with some reasonable opportunity to opt in to any future upgrades for just $295 (which frankly, is ridiculously low and probably was not well thought out, but that's beside the point) - which a 3 month opt-in period would reasonably fulfill. I'll grant you, though, that - in view of the regrettable confusion over all of this from day one - my personal preference would be to extend that for a little longer on a case by case basis.

Even if this approach was just a 'convenient construction' to impose after the fact though (in the interest of paying the salaries of the devs in years ahead to keep LW in the marketplace, because surely no-one thinks NewTek is getting rich off of this), it's not like HC/charter members would be shortchanged, inasmuch as Chuck has stated their option would simply revert to the appropriate one based on their membership, which were pretty favorable terms (albeit not insanely so).

I'll grant that this is something of a mess - but imho it can't honestly be framed as either 'greed' or a 'broken promise'. At worst it's been clumsy and unclear; at best, a painstaking attempt to sort out a tangled mess in a way that attempts to be fair to customers while keeping LW3DG in business.

Again, none of the above is "NewTek" speaking, just my two cents ...

Philbert
03-18-2018, 09:38 AM
I wrote to customer support, asking the same question as the first post, how much will my price be after March 31st. Here's my response.


After March 31st, upgrade pricing for HC licenses will revert to their previous HC pricing, with any other special terms for which a specific license may be eligible accounted for.

Which doesn't really answer my question. I don't know how much it was on Post Charter. It's been a long time so I guess that's what he means by HC.

SBowie
03-18-2018, 10:05 AM
I think standard HC pricing was $495, but they should be able to verify that for you.

hrgiger
03-18-2018, 12:14 PM
Sigh. Im not sure whether its just people here being deliberately obtuse or trying to find wiggle room to give NT the out here but i dont see the terms being any more clear here. To answer the question, yes there was an official announcement when the promotion of the 2015 discount first went into effect detailing the pricing terms but that page has long since been removed. Surely NT must keep records of such things.

But even pointing to the links i provided, they all point to a promotion for people to get current to the latest version of LW (2015) so that when LW Next was released you would be eligible for 295 upgrades as long as you remained current. In not one of those links will you find any mention of a limited time to take advantage of the $295 upgrade price.

SBowie
03-18-2018, 12:59 PM
In not one of those links will you find any mention of a limited time to take advantage of the $295 upgrade price.Agreed ... but nor is there any mention of it being unlimited. That's kind of the definition of "ambiguous".

hrgiger
03-18-2018, 01:46 PM
Agreed ... but nor is there any mention of it being unlimited. That's kind of the definition of "ambiguous".

Ok but just taking this snippet from Deuce: "Stay current, and it's $295. EVEN IF you had slipped at one point. So say, you had to, for one reason or another, pay $795 to get current ... you are now current - so the next upgrade would be offered to you at $295."

I'm on 2015. My next upgrade is 2018. Logic therefore dictates that while 2018 is the current version, 2018 would be my next upgrade. Where is my upgrade pricing changing in the above sentence that I'm not seeing from $295?

m.d.
03-18-2018, 01:59 PM
It was made pretty clear all upgrades for current users will be $295...not even specific to Charter non-charter....everyone who is current from 2015 on.

Charter members are supposed to get special discounts (unspecified)

This is crystal clear in these posts....


http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446141&viewfull=1#post1446141
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446065&viewfull=1#post1446065
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446067&viewfull=1#post1446067

I am a charter member, and the only thing I see different is the lack of special offers for charter members.
Everyone and there dog is supposed to get $295 upgrades for current owners.

Takes a special logic to walk back these posts....pretty cut and dry, with examples included to clarify.

I am sure Newtek will step up and do the right thing though.

As a charter member...it would be prudent of me to wait for the special discounts...no? :)

m.d.
03-18-2018, 02:02 PM
Agreed ... but nor is there any mention of it being unlimited. That's kind of the definition of "ambiguous".



this gets everyone up to 2015. From this point forward, upgrades are $295. Fall behind, and it's $795

Charter/Post Charter benefit is not going away - the benefit will manifest through special deals just for those members past 2016.

From this point forward being the key phrase.

jwiede
03-18-2018, 02:34 PM
If the offer's terms were a problem, why didn't Newtek redact or modify them right after they were was stated? As in, _before_ Newtek got the full benefit of its side of the consideration (enhanced LW2015 sales) out of the arrangement?

Now that Newtek has received its full share of the arrangement's consideration, failing to provide the customers' side of the arrangement's consideration isn't just "unfortunate" or "a mess".

lw_blender
03-18-2018, 03:33 PM
I don't think "current" was ever defined in fine print. The lack of clarity gives Newtek room to remove ambiguity moving forward. Management seemingly made a commitment here and I agree they should honor the $295 through 2018.

With Autodesk, before the ruthless forced subscription, there was often a grace period where you could upgrade and get some imminent next version free or renew subscription without paying a penalty even after letting subscription lapse. So I was curious to see if NewTek ever committed in writing to a particular definition of "current".
The fact is there is NO need to define current, because it's pretty obvious that "current" is the version just before the one that got released!
Why?
Just because when you want to upgrade to the last released version (LW2018 in that case...) it means, without any ambiguity, that you can't have that release yet, otherwise there would NO point to upgrade at all!

wingzeta
03-18-2018, 03:41 PM
There was a deal some of us took advantage of to get ALL future upgrades for $295, as long as we stay current. I expect that deal to be honored. If you didn't get that deal when it was offered, there is not much to complain about. It was a deal to upgrade to 2015, not the current deal for 2018, which does not include that provision beyond the current promotion. In other words, if you are upgrading to 2018 from 9, 11 or earlier, you can pay $295 right now, but then you are subject to what ever the price is going forward. Also if you skipped 2015, that also means you didn't stay current, so even if you were charter or post charter, you likely lost it by not staying current, therefore you would be subject to regular pricing. The only question is, are all 2015 owners eligible for the $295 upgrades, or was it only people like myself, who upgraded during that specific promotion? That promotion was offered sometime after 2015 was released, to get more people to upgrade, not sure if it was retroactive. That would seem a bit unfair to people who upgraded right at release, but a deal is a deal.

And yeah, I agree "current" is until there is a new version, that would change what is the current version. The word defines it. If you choose to "get current" late in the cycle, it just means you don't get to take advantage of the new features in that version for very long, but you spend the same amount of money.

Snosrap
03-18-2018, 05:01 PM
The posts by Rob are perfectly clear IMHO - don't let your LW get out of date and pay $295 for every upgrade from now until eternity. :)

SBowie
03-18-2018, 05:30 PM
Ok but just taking this snippet from Deuce: "Stay current, and it's $295. EVEN IF you had slipped at one point. So say, you had to, for one reason or another, pay $795 to get current ... you are now current - so the next upgrade would be offered to you at $295."

I'm on 2015. My next upgrade is 2018. Logic therefore dictates that while 2018 is the current version, 2018 would be my next upgrade. Where is my upgrade pricing changing in the above sentence that I'm not seeing from $295?Again, in this example, the obvious ambiguity lies in the phrase "you are now current - so the next upgrade would be offered to you at $295." And - whether the promo extends part the month end of bit, one can now legitimately say "And it was it was."

hrgiger
03-18-2018, 05:32 PM
The people people who already owned lw 2015 when the promotion was put in place were told that we were already eligible for the 295 price for lw next and for the subsequent upgrades so not just the ones who upgraded for the deal.

hrgiger
03-18-2018, 05:37 PM
Again, in this example, the obvious ambiguity lies in the phrase "you are now current - so the next upgrade would be offered to you at $295." And - whether the promo extends part the month end of bit, one can now legitimately say "And it was it was."

Except it doesn't say the promo will be offered to you for 3 months or for a limited time... Every other post that Rob, Lino and Deuce discussed the policy at length said as long as you remain current. I dont' understand why you're going to such lengths to shine light on ambiguity where there is none.

SBowie
03-18-2018, 05:48 PM
Except it doesn't say the promo will be offered to you for 3 months or for a limited time.Were going in circles now. It also doesn't say the opportunity would be indefinitely long.


I dont' understand why you're going to such lengths to shine light on ambiguity where there is none.I'm simply pointing out that it is not as cut and dried as some are inclined to think it is.

hrgiger
03-18-2018, 06:31 PM
Well here Deuce points out that there is no end date and upgrades will always be 295 if you stay current. http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446290&viewfull=1#post1446290

SBowie
03-18-2018, 06:47 PM
You do see that on a careful reading there is nothing in that post that definitively bears on whether or not the opportunity to upgrade for $295 might be subject to any limit as each individual new version arrives, right? Again, I'm not arguing for one interpretation or another, here; simply that there is in fact some ambiguity despite people's feelings on this.

Chris S. (Fez)
03-18-2018, 06:59 PM
The posts by Rob are perfectly clear IMHO - don't let your LW get out of date and pay $295 for every upgrade from now until eternity. :)

+ inflation is fair IMO. NewTek has to eat too. $295 from 2015 is not the same as $295 from 2018. And, honestly, I am not convinced that price is sustainable.

hrgiger
03-18-2018, 07:44 PM
You do see that on a careful reading there is nothing in that post that definitively bears on whether or not the opportunity to upgrade for $295 might be subject to any limit as each individual new version arrives, right? Again, I'm not arguing for one interpretation or another, here; simply that there is in fact some ambiguity despite people's feelings on this.

What I know is that my charter membership is based on staying current and the only stipulation with that is that I upgrade before the next full version of the software is out. So When LW 11 was released, I had up until just before LW 2015 was released before I had to make the decision to upgrade to LW 11 to keep my charter membership active. Which means I had about 3 years if I recall. So I guess again what I'm getting at is, why has what Rob, Deuce and Lino addressed before 2018 was released referred to as staying current now being referred to as a temporary promo price that is time limited rather than version limited as it was intended?

samurai_x
03-18-2018, 07:54 PM
Well here Deuce points out that there is no end date and upgrades will always be 295 if you stay current. http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1446290&viewfull=1#post1446290

That's crystal clear.
Now if they want to end the promise that was given for the $295 for 5 upgrades since the Core DISASTER, and the 2 year silence they just pulled, then NT has the right to do so its their product.
But doing that now when things are looking really bleak for lightwave. Good luck NT. People will just skip a few upgrades OR not upgrade at all.

jwiede
03-18-2018, 08:02 PM
You do see that on a careful reading there is nothing in that post that definitively bears on whether or not the opportunity to upgrade for $295 might be subject to any limit as each individual new version arrives, right?

Except that's not how contracts work. Contract terms are exclusive, not inclusive, as a result of many things (including the inability to prove a negative).

3D Kiwi
03-18-2018, 08:35 PM
Blenders upgrade pricing is pretty good, Especially if you stay current.

samurai_x
03-18-2018, 09:42 PM
Blenders upgrade pricing is pretty good, Especially if you stay current.

If blender becomes relevant besides indie and cheap projects, I'd consider it as my main.
Not fair to compare a commercial vs free software. In the end for cheap users I guess it doesn't matter.

3D Kiwi
03-18-2018, 09:43 PM
A free software that has a hell of alot more respect in the industry than Lightwave.

samurai_x
03-19-2018, 12:52 AM
A free software that has a hell of alot more respect in the industry than Lightwave.

I'd say 50/50. A lot of people equally hate its ui and workflow. :D

3D Kiwi
03-19-2018, 02:25 AM
Its UI and workflow aren't that bad, better than missing features lol

Ztreem
03-19-2018, 02:58 AM
Its UI and workflow aren't that bad, better than missing features lol

It actually have some really nice workflows compared to LW, if you just take the time to learn it. But Lw also have some really nice workflows that blender lacks. As with all software there is no perfect one.

SBowie
03-19-2018, 08:12 AM
Blenders upgrade pricing is pretty good, Especially if you stay current.

This Blender back and forth is OT for this thread, right? Right.


Except that's not how contracts work. I seriously doubt anyone offering comments in a forum thought of themselves as drawing up the the terms of a contract; they were just answering questions as best they could. Even setting aside that they weren't writing in 'legalese', their individual responses cold hardly be considered exhaustive' clearly such comments need to be carefully considered in their original context to derive what was actually meant, which, as I wrote, is a regrettably messy process.

This said, as far as I know NewTek continues to try to sort this out, down to working with people on an individual basis where that seems to be necessary. In each instance that I have had any (minor) involvement in to date, at least, where the individual was actually wanting to purchase and not simply trying to make a point, the matter was resolved satisfactorily on all sides.

Ztreem
03-19-2018, 09:10 AM
This Blender back and forth is OT for this thread, right? Right.

I agree.


This said, as far as I know NewTek continues to try to sort this out, down to working with people on an individual basis where that seems to be necessary. In each instance that I have had any (minor) involvement in to date, at least, where the individual was actually wanting to purchase and not simply trying to make a point, the matter was resolved satisfactorily on all sides.

Good to know. So hopefully when I have time to evaluate 2018 properly and if I feel that I want to upgrade, I can be quite sure that I will get my upgrade for what I felt I was promised (or close to) when I bought 2015. If I was completly sure I wanted to upgrade I would just buy it now when it is cheap. But the silence got me scared of being too dependent on one piece of software so I just have to evaluate other apps and it takes some time.

SBowie
03-19-2018, 09:35 AM
Good to know. So hopefully when I have time to evaluate 2018 properly and if I feel that I want to upgrade, I can be quite sure that I will get my upgrade for what I felt I was promised (or close to) when I bought 2015.I can't make any promises, but being totally candid on a personal level - three months doesn't seem like an unreasonable eval period, esp. when the price is what it is (for most people, granting that there are some in special circumstances where the expenditure is a real problem).

Chuck
03-19-2018, 10:33 AM
To be clear, NT will not be honoring the promises made by Rob Powers.


In practical terms, some licenses were upgraded under offers that will still allow upgrade at $295 after March 31st,

Did you have some other promise in mind than the special offer allowing some licenses to purchase upgrades at $295 after the introductory offer ends?

Chuck
03-19-2018, 11:01 AM
Some notes:

"HC" is short for Hardcore, for those who don't remember that abbreviation. That refers to both Charter and Post-Charter memberships, so saying that an HC license will revert to whatever terms it is entitled to means that both classes of license with revert to their Charter or Post-Charter appropriate pricing.

"with any other special terms for which a specific license may be eligible accounted for" means exactly things such as the special offer on upgrading to 2015 that gets future pricing of $295 on upgrades going forward as long as you do not skip an upgrade. Any special terms that you are eligible for you will get. Those of you stating that NewTek is not honoring previous terms are quite simply not correct about that.

We stated on several occasions that this introductory special did not in any way interfere with any entitlements anyone has under previous special purchases; it just allowed a lot of folks who did not have such terms to buy this upgrade at a great discount for a limited time.

Chuck
03-19-2018, 11:16 AM
Sigh. Im not sure whether its just people here being deliberately obtuse or trying to find wiggle room to give NT the out here but i dont see the terms being any more clear here. To answer the question, yes there was an official announcement when the promotion of the 2015 discount first went into effect detailing the pricing terms but that page has long since been removed. Surely NT must keep records of such things.

But even pointing to the links i provided, they all point to a promotion for people to get current to the latest version of LW (2015) so that when LW Next was released you would be eligible for 295 upgrades as long as you remained current. In not one of those links will you find any mention of a limited time to take advantage of the $295 upgrade price.

And the "limited time introductory offer" essentially doesn't apply to the folks who purchased under those terms. It applies only to the people who didn't have such special terms. The registration system is aware when a license has special terms, and the sales staff will always work with the customer to ensure that any special offer terms the customer is entitled to, they will get. We've explained this plenty of times, in plenty of ways, and we'll keep repeating it, in new words if we have to, until everyone understands it.

m.d.
03-19-2018, 11:25 AM
Thanks for the clarity Chuck...

So the old promises stand.
See how that works....simple. This was clear from the start until people started blindly assuming time limits and or Newteks right to back out of their promises because of financial issues or even inflation :)

jeric_synergy
03-19-2018, 11:29 AM
OK, I'm bookmarking this thread because... yikes.

As long as my HC/Charter thingy still works, I think it's a wash, right? Dollar-wise?

And as ever: Saint Chuck, thank you for your patience. :bowdown: It can't be easy.

hrgiger
03-19-2018, 12:11 PM
Did you have some other promise in mind than the special offer allowing some licenses to purchase upgrades at $295 after the introductory offer ends?

In response to this particular quote where you were responding to Djwaterman, yes, its not just anyone who bought under offers that still allow upgrades at 295 after March 31st, its also people who were already 2015 owners by that point. Which is where I fall.

Which Rob Clearly says in this post: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1445991&viewfull=1#post1445991 "If you have upgraded to 2015 or if you take advantage of this current promo to get current with 2015 then you will receive $295 for all future upgrades of LightWave. "

Schwyhart
03-19-2018, 01:58 PM
I'm glad I've already upgraded...
There needs to be a pricing chart put on the website I think.

raymondtrace
03-19-2018, 02:28 PM
There needs to be a pricing chart put on the website I think.

Unless you're referring to a pricing chart for options of perpetual licenses and subscriptions, I would disagree with posting more pricing details... beyond what is already displayed on the web site.

The pricing discussed in this thread is for existing users who have already been advised of pricing. As Steve & Chuck have stated, they can work out those details with Customer Service if the online store pricing disagrees with what they were promised.

Advertising special discount pricing for select groups from the web page could be discouraging and confusing to the majority of purchasers.

This is why permanent pricing is absurd to be offered by a vendor and absurd to be counted on by a consumer: http://www.searsarchives.com/homes/1908-1914.htm

jwiede
03-19-2018, 08:37 PM
Unless you're referring to a pricing chart for options of perpetual licenses and subscriptions, I would disagree with posting more pricing details... beyond what is already displayed on the web site.

The pricing discussed in this thread is for existing users who have already been advised of pricing. As Steve & Chuck have stated, they can work out those details with Customer Service if the online store pricing disagrees with what they were promised.

Advertising special discount pricing for select groups from the web page could be discouraging and confusing to the majority of purchasers.

This is why permanent pricing is absurd to be offered by a vendor and absurd to be counted on by a consumer: http://www.searsarchives.com/homes/1908-1914.htm

Agreed, there's no value in trying to list all the special upgrade pricing cases, etc. on the main advertising page. It'll just confuse potential customers to no end, and generally aren't even relevant for them. It should clearly list what the estimated upgrade price for new licenses going forward (because it impacts TCO, and potential customers do often want some idea of what upgrades will cost), but should also state that's an estimated future upgrade cost and subject to modification.

Existing customers should already have accounts with customized upgrade handling (which could easily include a "If this upgrade price isn't what you expected, please contact Newtek Customer Support", if it doesn't already say that).

TIMMYLYNN
03-21-2018, 08:15 PM
the system knows who is entitled to discount then why you send me email stating i'm losing special price?

I notice fewer people everytime. just making observations.

Snosrap
03-21-2018, 08:42 PM
Thanks Chuck. All clear now - I'm even planning on testing you. :) I started saving $10 a week to upgrade back when the blogs first started. Well it took so long for it to come out that I got almost enough saved for a new computer. :) So I'm going to get that first and then start saving again to upgrade to 2018, so it will be awhile.

DeanoC
03-28-2018, 01:34 PM
Some notes:
"HC" is short for Hardcore, for those who don't remember that abbreviation. That refers to both Charter and Post-Charter memberships, so saying that an HC license will revert to whatever terms it is entitled to means that both classes of license with revert to their Charter or Post-Charter appropriate pricing.

As someone who never really got the whole HC/charter/core whatever can you refresh what that appropriate pricing will be? I had hoped to use the $295 upgrade before end of march but reality has intruded and thats not gonna be possible.

TBH as someone who never really followed all the 'fun' of Core/HC etc. I'd assume there would be an easy way to know, how much it will cost me extra for missing the March deadline but I can't find anything before this forum and the fact my MyAccounts has 'Charter' next to a bunch of the license/download links.

Thanks

djwaterman
03-29-2018, 07:03 AM
Did you have some other promise in mind than the special offer allowing some licenses to purchase upgrades at $295 after the introductory offer ends?

I upgraded to 2015 on the 29th of September 2015, just before the special offer of the time was about to expire, I see no mention in my account that hints at my being eligible to the special upgrade price beyond the current time limit, no "contact us", just a regular "Upgrade now". So that tells me the system is not aware of customers different purchase situations, in any case, the new deal is about to expire, I will not be rushing to re-new like last time, as doing so last time didn't seem to help me any. My original statement is valid, NT will not be honoring the promises made by RP.

pauland
03-29-2018, 07:37 AM
The bottom line is that Newtek needs money. Squabbling like children about deals and promises does nothing about giving Newtek the money it needs for development.

The cost of Blender has no relevance to the cost of LW. The posts about blender here have no relevance to this thread.

Either pay what Newtek wants because it's a good deal for you, or move on to a better deal for you elsewhere. Without money Newtek will fold, or at least ditch LW and become a hardware company.

lw_blender
03-29-2018, 07:56 AM
The bottom line is that Newtek needs money. Squabbling like children about deals and promises does nothing about giving Newtek the money it needs for development.

The cost of Blender has no relevance to the cost of LW. The posts about blender here have no relevance to this thread.

Either pay what Newtek wants because it's a good deal for you, or move on to a better deal for you elsewhere. Without money Newtek will fold, or at least ditch LW and become a hardware company.
Blender came in (by me...) just because someone found clever the idea of mentioning AutoDesk update prices to justify LW's upgrade price.
I reckon it's not relevant to talk about blender in this thread, nor is it to talk about AutoDesk either, that was the point I was trying to make, but anyway, everyone have fun with LW2018, I'm off for good now.

SBowie
03-29-2018, 08:06 AM
Blender came in (by me...) just because someone found clever the idea of mentioning AutoDesk update prices to justify LW's upgrade price.
I reckon it's not relevant to talk about blender in this thread, nor is it to talk about AutoDesk either, that was the point I was trying to make, but anyway, everyone have fun with LW2018, I'm off for good now.Agreed ... in light of which, OT posts have been deleted. A la prochaine ...

Chuck
03-29-2018, 09:24 AM
I upgraded to 2015 on the 29th of September 2015, just before the special offer of the time was about to expire, I see no mention in my account that hints at my being eligible to the special upgrade price beyond the current time limit, no "contact us", just a regular "Upgrade now". So that tells me the system is not aware of customers different purchase situations, in any case, the new deal is about to expire, I will not be rushing to re-new like last time, as doing so last time didn't seem to help me any. My original statement is valid, NT will not be honoring the promises made by RP.

Right now the introductory offer is valid for everyone and the system does not need to display the "Contact Us" button for anyone.

The introductory offer ends on March 31. After that is when the registration system will show either "Buy Now" for folks eligible to purchase at the USD$495 price (upgrade from the last version) or USD$695 (upgrade from older versions) or "Contact Us" for those who are eligible for USD$295 or USD$395, based on the terms of their previous special-offer purchases.

Those who have the "Contact Us" button, when you use that, our sales staff will confirm from your account records and then will generate a discount coupon number for you that you can then enter on the purchase page to get your appropriate price. Complete instructions will be in the email reply, and if you have any questions or issues we will by all means work with you on those, case by case.

djwaterman
03-29-2018, 06:42 PM
Right now the introductory offer is valid for everyone and the system does not need to display the "Contact Us" button for anyone.

The introductory offer ends on March 31. After that is when the registration system will show either "Buy Now" for folks eligible to purchase at the USD$495 price (upgrade from the last version) or USD$695 (upgrade from older versions) or "Contact Us" for those who are eligible for USD$295 or USD$395, based on the terms of their previous special-offer purchases.

Those who have the "Contact Us" button, when you use that, our sales staff will confirm from your account records and then will generate a discount coupon number for you that you can then enter on the purchase page to get your appropriate price. Complete instructions will be in the email reply, and if you have any questions or issues we will by all means work with you on those, case by case.


I contacted NT directly and never got this type of information, you can understand my frustration at never getting a clear answer to a very simple question up until now. None of this was clarified up until your reply, thank you for doing so.

jeric_synergy
03-31-2018, 12:59 PM
I'm in. Rather strapped at the moment, so I hope I didn't jump the gun before my Charter offer would have dictated, but .... ::sigh::

I've been in since Videoscape, it's kinda hard not to at this late date, even when it isn't a canny fiduciary move.

Besides, it's my birthday, and that seemed propitious. ;)

jeric_synergy
03-31-2018, 01:29 PM
I'm in. Rather strapped at the moment, so I hope I didn't jump the gun before my Charter offer would have dictated, but .... ::sigh::

I've been in since Videoscape, it's kinda hard not to at this late date, even when it isn't a canny fiduciary move.

Besides, it's my birthday, and that seemed propitious. ;)

(And now, I've renewed my license to kvetch at the top of my lungs.... ;) ) XO!

Chris S. (Fez)
03-31-2018, 01:40 PM
(And now, I've renewed my license to kvetch at the top of my lungs.... ;) ) XO!

Excellent.

djwaterman
04-01-2018, 07:33 AM
Happy April first, I guess I've been played the fool, since my account still says "Buy Now". NT's system is not aware of customer's details it seems, at least not mine.

jwiede
04-01-2018, 01:16 PM
Happy April first, I guess I've been played the fool, since my account still says "Buy Now". NT's system is not aware of customer's details it seems, at least not mine.

I don't think they've "turned off" the limited-time promotion yet, as I still see "Buy 2018 Upgrade" (showing price of $295 in cart) on my account as well, instead of the expected "Contact Us".

jeric_synergy
04-01-2018, 03:37 PM
It's Sunday, and Easter, and whatever. If it's not automated, I'm not surprised.

jwiede
04-01-2018, 04:12 PM
It's Sunday, and Easter, and whatever. If it's not automated, I'm not surprised.

Exactly. Newtek allowing the promotion to run a day or three longer is a positive thing, not a negative one.

rdolishny
04-01-2018, 07:27 PM
Not sure what this Charter deal is, but sounds like ancient history.

Everyone had three months to come up with three hundred bucks. If that's not in your arsenal, then I'm not sure if $295 or $695 or anything else is, either.

I'm not really using LW professionally anymore but know a deal when I see it. I upgraded the moment I could (about 2 weeks ago) knowing this deal expired. That's business and black and white.

- - - Updated - - -


I can't make any promises, but being totally candid on a personal level - three months doesn't seem like an unreasonable eval period, esp. when the price is what it is (for most people, granting that there are some in special circumstances where the expenditure is a real problem).

I wish I replied to this comment first. But the idea in my post was (1) it's only three hundred bucks and (b) you had 3 months to think about it.

Happy to have upgraded and supported Lightwave.

hrgiger
04-01-2018, 07:45 PM
Not sure what this Charter deal is, but sounds like ancient history.

Everyone had three months to come up with three hundred bucks. If that's not in your arsenal, then I'm not sure if $295 or $695 or anything else is, either.

I'm not really using LW professionally anymore but know a deal when I see it. I upgraded the moment I could (about 2 weeks ago) knowing this deal expired. That's business and black and white.

- - - Updated - - -



I wish I replied to this comment first. But the idea in my post was (1) it's only three hundred bucks and (b) you had 3 months to think about it.

Happy to have upgraded and supported Lightwave.

Charter was the price lock that Newtek offered its customers if they decided to not take a refund after Newtek cancelled LightWave CORE which had been in open alpha development for around 3 years. If Customers decided to not take a refund and take LW 10 instead, they were eligible to have a fixed price for the next 5 upgrades of LW at a locked in price, either $395 if they were one of the early adopters of CORE, or $495 if they bought in later. It was meant to protect them from future price increases. LW 11 was the first of the upgrades, LW 2015 was the second, LW 2018, would be the third. As long as you bought each upgrade and didn't skip any by the time the next upgrade came out, you would be able to keep your charter pricing. So not ancient history.

As far as the $295 goes, it was never meant to be promotional pricing, it was supposed to be the price for everyone who was current with LW 2015. NT has conveniently turned it into a limited time promotion. But based on their past promotions, I wouldn't worry about it too much if anyone missed it, I'm sure they'll be running another one soon enough.

djwaterman
04-01-2018, 07:59 PM
Well I totally understand NT throwing out all the old promises by LW3DG after dissolving that project, what I don't get is that they can't just be honest and state that. I understand I have been duped by what sounded at the time like a "good deal", and I'll just have to live with that, because in the end, LW 2015 was a pretty good thing to have. But I can't be expected to shell out once again with a happy smile and just ignore the broken promise. I'll wait to see if Chuck's recent face saving statement proves to be true or not.

VonBon
04-01-2018, 08:10 PM
Saw that my post was removed, :stumped:...Sorry?

SBowie
04-01-2018, 08:13 PM
What post? What was the topic?

JamesCurtis
04-02-2018, 12:10 PM
I upgraded within the first week or so of the trial release. I have two computers, but I only bought one license. I would have liked to get both upgrased at that time, but couldn't get that much to do both. I really don't mind right now, as I do my present client work in LW 2015.3, and will learn to use the new 2018 for awhile, especially since they won't pay for the added time or cost LW 2018 would take for thier projects.

djwaterman
04-03-2018, 05:11 PM
I just wanted to confirm that yesterday I found a 'Request Upgrade Discount" replacing the "Buy Upgrade" on my accounts page.