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JohnMarchant
03-14-2018, 06:56 PM
Hi,

Has anyone actually used this. Im trying to understand the point of it.

From what i gather you get up the scene in Layout so you can then see this in modeler. If i have to do that then what is the point. I was hoping this was a perspective viewport showing you a basic render and especially the textures, after all thats why i need it to texture in modeler. If i have to set it all up in Layout, pretty much defeats the object if i have layout and modeler running at the same time.

Please can someone tell me im wrong, or im doing something wrong, or indeed tell me the advantage of having it.

Not a gripe, i remember allot said about this before release, but not much mentioned now.

rsfd
03-15-2018, 05:15 AM
There are situations where changes on the Component levels (Point, Edge, Polygon) of a geometry need to be done from the Camera View.
This was not (precisely) possible in LW before the introduction of "Layout View" in Modeler. So, this is a very good thing!

JohnMarchant
03-15-2018, 05:28 AM
Oh, ok, had not considered that at all. Maybe it was me thinking it was something different to what it actually was. Ive still not seen anyone making comments on the forums about its usefulness.

So really there is not much there in it for what i was looking for. I was rather hoping i would get a realistic view of my surfaces whether they are texure, gradient, node or procedural in the perspective viewport. It does not affect me so much on the desktop as i always have layout and modeler open at the same time but it would have been nice when i am on the road with my laptop and only one screen.

Thanks for the reply though.

djwaterman
03-15-2018, 07:31 AM
For special fx type shots, where you might be adding a set into live action, it is very handy to be able to model that geometry from the camera point of view, that's the sort of scenario this solution was designed to answer. It removes the guess-work and back and forth between apps.

rsfd
03-15-2018, 07:35 AM
@ JohnMarchant
You're welcome.
Aren't the OpenGL improvements in Modeler any help on this task?
(I cannot imagine what they do as I'm still sitting on a pretty old hardware - Modo's Advanced-OGL at least isn't of any benefit for me for that reason…)

JohnMarchant
03-15-2018, 07:56 AM
@ JohnMarchant
You're welcome.
Aren't the OpenGL improvements in Modeler any help on this task?
(I cannot imagine what they do as I'm still sitting on a pretty old hardware - Modo's Advanced-OGL at least isn't of any benefit for me for that reason…)

Yes there are some improvement in OGL performance in modeler 2018 but you still have to switch shading method to get it and even then you wont get everything from what i have seen. my hardware is not that old but still no better in this regard i think.

As i said its my bad because i obviously thought this would do something that it was not intended to really do.

Im surprised that someone has not screamed unified program yet and indeed this might be an advantage of having it unified.

For me i mostly model and setting up modeling, texturing, layering, pivots, morphs and such should be done in modeler. Layout is for animating those things.

ccclarke
03-15-2018, 10:36 AM
I hear what you're saying John, but unless it's a very simple texture, Modeler's relationship in regards to texturing is assigning textures to polys, and little else.

Layout is where texturing is viewed in relation to the lighting conditions used for rendering.

A unified system is the answer, but has it's own disadvantages as well.

CCC

rsfd
03-15-2018, 12:07 PM
Yes there are some improvement in OGL performance in modeler 2018 but you still have to switch shading method to get it and even then you wont get everything from what i have seen…
Thanks for that note.

(I've noticed a huge OGL performance gain (on OSX-Modeler), still mostly not as fast as Modo, but way better as at times when I paused with LW (v.10) and used Modo exclusively. With Modo going subscription, I'm actually re-entering LW).

JohnMarchant
03-16-2018, 04:13 AM
Agreed unified has advantages but also disadvantages, im still out on it, but i do prefer having them separate, or is that just me being old.

JohnMarchant
03-16-2018, 04:16 AM
That's interesting, so how did you find Modo then. I got and early version and kept udating until i think v 6. Some nice things in it but i did not feel i was getting anything better than LW, not sure now what it is like. Be interesting to compare. I know some Modo user complain about the speed and also it not being good for CA.

rsfd
03-16-2018, 11:40 AM
Have to admit that modeling isn't my favourite department.
When I started with LW 9, I very quickly experienced huge performance issues with meshes of ~1 Mio polygons on the Mac version, which led me to Modo (must have been v301 at this time), because it was vastly more performant.
Another point was that Modo has a very capable toolset to model nearly exclusively in the Perspective Viewport, what I personally find much more intuitive compared to the standard quad view approach.
When Modo matured and got a better render engine, I switched completely. Now, with Modo going subscription, it might be that I fully revert to LW. 2018's new renderer being the main argument (without PBR, I would stay with Modo).

902 is my last Modo version so far, I still think that Modeler cannot even come close to Modo's modeling and UV-ing toolset and workflow, but that's of course a completely biased opinion.
For most other areas, I wouldn't see mandatory reasons for LW-users to switch to Modo.
Foundry has done quite a bit to attract Game content creators, but that's not my business, so not relevant to me. Bigger/heavier scenes do bring Modo down. There are some way to deal with this, but Clarisse obviously is the new star in that regard.
902 isn't king in the stability department either. CA seems -from what I gathered- a bit unique. Probably not the best, if interchange with other applications is needed.

MonroePoteet
03-16-2018, 03:23 PM
FYI, I just used the Layout View in Modeler in this thread:

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?156446-Surface-Particle-Generator-Can-this-be-done-with-LW&p=1540664&viewfull=1#post1540664

to be able to spray instances in Layout using the Map=>Airbrush function in Modeler. It's very handy to rotate / zoom / move the Perspective View in Layout, and have the Weight Shade view in Modeler comply for using Airbrush.

Just FYI,
mTp

JohnMarchant
03-17-2018, 05:08 AM
Thanks for that Monroe, i will check it out.

JohnMarchant
03-17-2018, 05:10 AM
Yes i have heard that Modo has improved somewhat since the last time i used it, nice to see that the modeling side of it is good. I always thought that if i was forced to leave LW then Modo would be my logical choice to go to. C4D is a bit to expensive for my tastes and all these different versions are annoying as well.

rsfd
03-17-2018, 11:56 AM
Modo surely has matured during the last couple of years with the Modeling and UV-ing area clearly being one of the most impressive feature.
Foundry introduced PBR with the 9x series, its implementation differs somewhat from LW’s, but it’s clearly a decent renderer. I’m not a big fan of Modo’s layered Material system approach, but it’s manageable.

Cinema is also very interesting, but as you already noted, it’s quite a bit too expensive and, yes, all those versions and add-ons seem annoying indeed.
Houdini could also be an alternative, but has a steep learning curve, that still seems too frustrating for many.

One thing with Foundry and Modo led to some complaints in the past. As Foundry got new owners at least twice, it seemed that there was a huge interest in pushing new features into Modo to generate a bigger user base and to lure existing users into upgrading.
But the quality management failed quite a bit, leading to pretty buggy and somewhat half-baked implementations of those new features that were then to be fixed during the follow-up builds. I cannot comment if that’s a thing of the past now, as I haven’t upgraded since 902, but I would expect that Foundry has heard those complaints.

Anyway, they have done quite nice „overview” videos on many parts of Modo on Foundry’s Products > Modo > Modo Features webpage, which would be a good input for the LW Developers, now that they will obviously have a closer look at LW-Modeler.