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View Full Version : No reflection blurring for Standard material in LW 2018 ?



scott.newman.ct
03-03-2018, 08:20 AM
All the new material changes are very cool, but there are times when you just want to work with good old Standard surfaces.

I cant find a reflection blurring setting for the Standard material anywhere?

Anybody else had any luck?

I find this setting so useful and its quite a deal breaker not having it.

Scott

Sensei
03-03-2018, 09:53 AM
I am working on new nodes for LW 2018.
It's possible to make reflection blurring in them.
If you're really interested write to me at contact page of my website.

scott.newman.ct
03-03-2018, 01:59 PM
Thanks Sensei

Forgive me for asking - but are you part of the Lightwave development team? Or do you do third party plugins so to speak?

Im on the verge of buying 2018.... but there are just so many changes and so many things not working properly (on my machine at least, I dont know if its the same for everyone else) that Im having second thoughts.

Any idea if Newtek plan on addressing all of the issues? Im not a regular on these forums so I may have missed all the big discussions on this topic

Thanks for your help

Scott

Chris S. (Fez)
03-03-2018, 02:52 PM
I really like 2018. The .2 patch provides many critical fixes, including functional Edge Rendering.

Sensei
03-03-2018, 04:08 PM
but are you part of the Lightwave development team?

If I would be part of NT team, I would be unable to help you right now, other way than making feature in application, and you would have to wait till the next release.


Or do you do third party plugins so to speak?

Yes.

Andy Webb
03-04-2018, 06:13 AM
Yes I use reflection blurring a lot in LW15.3, I find it quicker than using the nodes, it would be very good to get that back in LW 2018

RebelHill
03-04-2018, 06:58 AM
See here...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfpr627ML-w

SaT
03-04-2018, 07:01 AM
I think you can do it. It is done with glossiness. Specularity is the reflection and with glossiness you can adjust the amount of roughness. You can find this in the online documentation for the standard material node.

scott.newman.ct
03-05-2018, 12:31 AM
Ah ha! Thanks everyone.

Silly me - I see the amount of reflection blurring is automatically controlled by the glossiness (as in roughness) setting with the new Standard material.

Still... I gotta say it was very handy having the old standard material where the specular highlight strength and size wasnt directly linked to the amount of blurriness. You could tweak these things independently of each other, more of an art than a science.

It seems everything is very scientific now and you are locked into pre-defined surface relationships which is great in most cases, but not always.

Does anyone else out there feel like the specular highlight on the new materials is rather strong and overpowering?

Chris S. (Fez)
03-05-2018, 03:44 AM
The new principle shader offers extensive control over highlights with "Sheen" , "Clearcoat" and other settings to fine tune specular surfacing. Check out the manual and the rest of RH's videos. Also, the light settings are critical to controlling highlights. Get RH's commercial training on rendering and surfacing in 2018.

Andy Webb
03-05-2018, 04:42 AM
Using the Discovery edition of 2018, I tried setting the Spec to 100% and the gloss to 100% as in RebelHill's fine tutorial, all I got was a spec highlight, no reflections!

This is 2018.0 if that makes a difference, or have I missed something?

Cheers

Andy Webb
03-05-2018, 04:50 AM
I have just noticed in RebelHill's video that the standard material is slightly different to mine.

In mine Refraction Blur is greyed out and comes after Translucency, so perhaps he has a slightly different version?

scott.newman.ct
03-05-2018, 07:26 AM
Andy, I was having the same problem. Then I discovered under the SHADING MODEL tab that default reflection option is set to "raytrace only" - so the backdrop gradient wasnt showing up in my reflections. The otehr thing I fiddled with was the checkbox for "glossy rflections" and then all the reflection magic started happening.

I took the plunge and purchased 2018 and I feel happy. Im blown away by how much faster the instancing is! And the buffer export for motion vectors seems to work properly which is awesome. Its a major step up for me as I was running LW 11.5

Thanks for the tips Fez - I'll definitely take a look at RH's stuff

scott.newman.ct
03-05-2018, 07:47 AM
Hi Chris (Fez) do you happen to have a link to RH's commercial training on rendering and surfacing in 2018? I cant seem to find it

Sensei
03-05-2018, 07:53 AM
I have just noticed in RebelHill's video that the standard material is slightly different to mine.

In mine Refraction Blur is greyed out and comes after Translucency, so perhaps he has a slightly different version?

Controls are usually greyed out if something is connected to nodal input to override them.

Andy Webb
03-05-2018, 08:29 AM
I will be upgrading to 2018 later this month, just waiting for the money to come in...

RebelHill
03-05-2018, 08:49 AM
I gotta say it was very handy having the old standard material where the specular highlight strength and size wasnt directly linked to the amount of blurriness. You could tweak these things independently of each other, more of an art than a science.

Sure, I get that, the old specular was quick n easy... it rendered fast and it wasnt reflection, but, it was a way to fake what is, in the real world, reflection.

This goes back to the fact that computers used to be slow... the old specular shading methods of phong and blinn go back to 1975 and 76... thy're older than I am. Thy've been with us a while, and it seems like quite a big change to go full physical, but 40+ yr old tech... I think it's high time to move on.

Ztreem
03-05-2018, 09:48 AM
Sure, I get that, the old specular was quick n easy... it rendered fast and it wasnt reflection, but, it was a way to fake what is, in the real world, reflection.

This goes back to the fact that computers used to be slow... the old specular shading methods of phong and blinn go back to 1975 and 76... thy're older than I am. Thy've been with us a while, and it seems like quite a big change to go full physical, but 40+ yr old tech... I think it's high time to move on.

If the tech is old or new doesn't say much about its usefulness. It's not like radiosity, monte carlo, path tracing and brdf is new tech... pen and paper is also old tech maybe we should just trash them as well. :devil: Options is always good, that is how I see the on things.

RebelHill
03-05-2018, 09:52 AM
I wouldnt disagree with that... but there are also engineering considerations to be taken into account and how easily the old can be integrated with the new. After all, pencil and paper is great... but if you're designing an ipad, and someone suggests "why not make it work with an old fashioned pencil too, because, options"...

This is why engineers dont talk to people.

Ztreem
03-05-2018, 10:04 AM
I wouldnt disagree with that... but there are also engineering considerations to be taken into account and how easily the old can be integrated with the new. After all, pencil and paper is great... but if you're designing an ipad, and someone suggests "why not make it work with an old fashioned pencil too, because, options"...

This is why engineers dont talk to people.

Ipad works fine with ordinary pencils actually it works best with a permanent marker. :D
Edit: As an industrial designer I’m used to make engineers life a hell but you have to to that to make things nice and useful.

RebelHill
03-05-2018, 10:12 AM
it works best with a permanent marker..

Few years back, before they'd started doing styluses for these various tablets, I did see an ipad user who, when he wanted to sketch out an explanation of something, turned the screen off and wrote all over it with a china marker.

Ztreem
03-05-2018, 11:04 AM
Few years back, before they'd started doing styluses for these various tablets, I did see an ipad user who, when he wanted to sketch out an explanation of something, turned the screen off and wrote all over it with a china marker.

Nice!

It could actually work if you use a marker made for glass. Someone wants to test on their ipad?

RebelHill
03-05-2018, 11:08 AM
Thats the china marker. You know in movies when you see folk (usually mathematicians) scrawling on windows with those white pencils. Non permanent, wipe off any smooth surface. I have a black one I keep in the bathroom, if I have an interesting idea while Im in the tub, I note it down on the tiles.

Ztreem
03-05-2018, 12:03 PM
Thats the china marker. You know in movies when you see folk (usually mathematicians) scrawling on windows with those white pencils. Non permanent, wipe off any smooth surface. I have a black one I keep in the bathroom, if I have an interesting idea while Im in the tub, I note it down on the tiles.

Aha, Ok! I thought you meant some cheap sh*t made in china. :D

raymondtrace
03-05-2018, 03:23 PM
Thats the china marker. You know in movies...

China markers actually hit much, much closer to home. They were used with 3D apps on CRT monitors in the old days (don't try it on a modern matte flat display). It used to be a good way to mark positions quickly.

You'll find a few 3D apps today that have a function or plugin called "china marker" or "grease pencil" to accomplish the same thing, now digitally.