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View Full Version : 2018 Modeler is still stupid slow



Schwyhart
01-31-2018, 10:30 AM
I'm currently trying to select polygons on a 100 face object...going on 2 mins waiting for Lightwave to actually select anything.
The object is part of a larger scene, but it is on it's own layer and is the only layer that's active. I had this issue in 2015 and now in 2018. It's driving me crazy!

MarcusM
01-31-2018, 11:33 AM
I'm currently trying to select polygons on a 100 face object...going on 2 mins waiting for Lightwave to actually select anything.
The object is part of a larger scene, but it is on it's own layer and is the only layer that's active. I had this issue in 2015 and now in 2018. It's driving me crazy!

Check this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2KaIpv3AvQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs4YnBd4zvE

Sensei
01-31-2018, 11:45 AM
Check this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2KaIpv3AvQ


The issue was not in "Expand Selection" but in the way MeshDataEdit is performing polSelect/pntSelect/edgeSelect.
In older LWs, since ever (I was telling NewTek devs this "millions" of times, even in v9.x times), that polSelect/pntSelect/edgeSelect are issuing immediate viewport refreshing function.. but it must be delayed...
If you're going to select million of points, you can't have million viewport refreshes. You just need one. At the end of selection operation.
In Windows .NET Framework also, while performing large update of listview, programmer has to disable visual updates, perform update, enable visual updates. It accelerate dozen/hundred times application.

nietzwaar
01-31-2018, 11:46 AM
When I make a box and drag the X-Y-Z up to 100 lines LW keeps just crashing.
The crashes are abrupt and without any warning. Is anyone working on this issue?
Does somebody experience this also.
And I must confirm that when we ar modelling, that LW is indeed slow. We are with four people at our office and design stages, The model usually get like 500 K until 1000K polygons, that should not be that big an issue I presume?

Bytehawk
01-31-2018, 12:04 PM
how to crash modeler in 20 seconds without creating a single polygon


https://youtu.be/cc0eSVrbEAE

and the feedback form crashes too if I want to send this bug report with a screenshot .... I guess NT have never heard of Retina Screens.

gcbotas
01-31-2018, 02:37 PM
switching layers is slow as hell compared with 2015.
navigation has a lag after releasing the mouse button too (zoom, pan, orbit with a high poly count mesh)

(on i7 8700k, quadro p2000, 8gb ram)

Sensei
01-31-2018, 02:51 PM
switching layers is slow as hell compared with 2015.

Switching layers might mean freeing 3D objects, and freeing textures, and uploading new 3D objects, with new textures.

Single 4k texture can eat 64 MB of memory, without mipmaps.
It doesn't matter how much they are taking on disk as files (they are compressed to not understandable by gfx card format), but how much they take as raw RGBA 32 bit data.
32 such textures, and you have 2 GB data to upload to gfx card memory..

jwiede
01-31-2018, 03:25 PM
Switching layers might mean freeing 3D objects, and freeing textures, and uploading new 3D objects, with new textures.

Single 4k texture can eat 64 MB of memory, without mipmaps.

Well, sure, but that doesn't explain why LW2015 would be significantly faster at the same actions than LW2018, they're both experiencing similar bandwidth for memory to VRAM transfers, etc. If there were a huge disparity between the LW2018 and LW2015.3 OpenGL texture resolution settings, such that LW2018 were moving much more data than LW2015, that might explain it, but by default they're set the same. As long as both LW2018 and LW2015 are set to the same OpenGL texture resolution limits, then they should have fairly similar perf. cost for moving object data from disk to main memory and/or main memory to VRAM.

gar26lw
01-31-2018, 06:35 PM
The issue was not in "Expand Selection" but in the way MeshDataEdit is performing polSelect/pntSelect/edgeSelect.
In older LWs, since ever (I was telling NewTek devs this "millions" of times, even in v9.x times), that polSelect/pntSelect/edgeSelect are issuing immediate viewport refreshing function.. but it must be delayed...
If you're going to select million of points, you can't have million viewport refreshes. You just need one. At the end of selection operation.
In Windows .NET Framework also, while performing large update of listview, programmer has to disable visual updates, perform update, enable visual updates. It accelerate dozen/hundred times application.

why will they not do as you say?

Sensei
01-31-2018, 07:35 PM
why will they not do as you say?

But MarcusM showed in video (check what I quoted), that Extend Selection is now extra fast in LW 2018 in comparison to f.e. LW 2015.3..

It's not because of changes in Extend Selection tool, but because of updated pntSelect/edgeSelect/polSelect,
TrueArt's Modeling Pack tool SelectionPresetManager is now also super fast on heavy geometry (million times less refresh routine called).
It's immediately visible, because previous I could see how these points/edges/polygons are selected one by one.

Snosrap
01-31-2018, 08:24 PM
navigation has a lag after releasing the mouse button too (zoom, pan, orbit with a high poly count mesh)

No kidding! At times it is just not usable. Especially when using a Wacom pen. And then try navigation in weight shade mode - just terrible.

nietzwaar
02-01-2018, 11:18 AM
I agree on the layers-swoops-slowness that needs improvement.

KevinL
02-27-2018, 08:22 PM
Just upgraded. Modellers whole operation is slow. menu select, tab change, etc.....
What am I missing?

Thanks

Snosrap
02-27-2018, 09:19 PM
Just upgraded. Modellers whole operation is slow. menu select, tab change, etc.....
What am I missing?

Thanks

I think we are missing the next patch. :) Kidding aside rumor has it that a new patch is forthwith. Should fix numerous issues.

gar26lw
02-28-2018, 03:21 AM
i went back to 2015. too much missing in lw 3rd party. too many modeler plugins gone

Lewis
02-28-2018, 04:59 AM
Just upgraded. Modellers whole operation is slow. menu select, tab change, etc.....
What am I missing?


NTs determination to do some proper coding on Modeler finally :D?

MichaelT
02-28-2018, 05:17 AM
Let that feedback option in the menu glow red hot :)

hrgiger
02-28-2018, 10:46 AM
NTs determination to do some proper coding on Modeler finally :D?

No kidding!

dee
02-28-2018, 03:01 PM
NTs determination to do some proper coding on Modeler finally :D?

That's because everyone is happy with Modeler. ;)
https://youtu.be/cDiainyPHys?t=3099 (51:39)

Schwyhart
02-28-2018, 03:18 PM
I know I started this thread, but fwiw today I modeled all day on a pretty dense mesh and Modeler didn't hiccup.
I switched my UI to Studio Production and that definitely helped me to model faster.140412

Snosrap
02-28-2018, 08:25 PM
i went back to 2015. too much missing in lw 3rd party. too many modeler plugins gone

So you are a 32bit user? The next patch will tell the story for me. Modeler wise there isn't a big jump in features between the 2015 and 18, however i do like the layout view in Modeler and it has already made my life a lot easier. TBH 2018 has too many great rendering and shading advances for me to go back to 2015. If they can address the many bugs we have found and work on the performance issues I will be extremely happy.

jwiede
02-28-2018, 08:31 PM
NTs determination to do some proper coding on Modeler finally :D?

Amen!

Ernest
03-01-2018, 04:01 AM
That's because everyone is happy with Modeler. ;)
https://youtu.be/cDiainyPHys?t=3099 (51:39)

Yeah, mea culpa.

...but, to be fair, we meant "Modeler is fine, you should work on Layout for the next couple of releases," not "Modeler is fine, you should work on Layout for the next 15 years."

gar26lw
03-01-2018, 05:09 AM
Yeah, mea culpa.

...but, to be fair, we meant "Modeler is fine, you should work on Layout for the next couple of releases," not "Modeler is fine, you should work on Layout for the next 15 years."

do you feel layout has been worked in over that 15 yrs?

DogBoy
03-01-2018, 05:35 AM
do you feel layout has been worked in over that 15 yrs?

Judging from what has been done in 11 to 2018, yeah there has been a lot of work done in Layout. With the exception of 11.5 there has been b*gger all done on Modeler. They really do need to start looking at it seriously, IMO.

gar26lw
03-01-2018, 06:15 AM
Judging from what has been done in 11 to 2018, yeah there has been a lot of work done in Layout. With the exception of 11.5 there has been b*gger all done on Modeler. They really do need to start looking at it seriously, IMO.

so how do you feel layout development fairs if we remove the rendering from the equation?

Ernest
03-01-2018, 06:42 AM
do you feel layout has been worked in over that 15 yrs?

Definitely

They added IK Booster, bone dynamics, joints, the shadow catcher, the Dope Track, Motion Designer, the new expressions engine, instances, the dope sheet, the new cameras and AAs, Interpolated and Final Gather GI, fiberFX, Bullet, IES lights, 3D glasses view, flocking, nodes, the UI was updated, PBR texturing, etc.
They also added a new geometry engine that works at about exactly the same speed as the old one?

At the time, people were begging Newtek to just drop the renderer completely and license Mental Ray because it was so slow and the other engines were improving really fast, so they would never catch up. They caught up and were one of the fastest renderers again by the 9.6 release. And the work done extracting the engine made it possible to add 3rd party renderers. And now we have a new renderer.

Lots of work has been done to Layout without even counting all the "backend work" that we're always told will pay dividends int he future.

gar26lw
03-01-2018, 06:58 AM
Definitely

They added IK Booster, bone dynamics, joints, the shadow catcher, the Dope Track, Motion Designer, the new expressions engine, instances, the dope sheet, the new cameras and AAs, Interpolated and Final Gather GI, fiberFX, Bullet, IES lights, 3D glasses view, flocking, nodes, the UI was updated, PBR texturing, etc.
They also added a new geometry engine that works at about exactly the same speed as the old one?

At the time, people were begging Newtek to just drop the renderer completely and license Mental Ray because it was so slow and the other engines were improving really fast, so they would never catch up. They caught up and were one of the fastest renderers again by the 9.6 release. And the work done extracting the engine made it possible to add 3rd party renderers. And now we have a new renderer.

Lots of work has been done to Layout without even counting all the "backend work" that we're always told will pay dividends int he future.


wicked reply. thanks for that. just what i was hoping for

Snosrap
03-02-2018, 09:53 PM
Things are vastly improved with the latest patch. Modeler is now usable. :)

Boris Goreta
03-10-2018, 02:09 PM
Every time I switch to Modeler from another app I have to wait 5 seconds to start using it. Switching from windows explorer for instance, not Layout. Why ?


Or as it happens now I have a delay of 5 seconds when going from Modeler to Layout but not the other way around. Layout empty, modeler has a sphere in it so there should be nothing going on really.

gar26lw
03-10-2018, 03:23 PM
Every time I switch to Modeler from another app I have to wait 5 seconds to start using it. Switching from windows explorer for instance, not Layout. Why ?


Or as it happens now I have a delay of 5 seconds when going from Modeler to Layout but not the other way around. Layout empty, modeler has a sphere in it so there should be nothing going on really.

same here and don’t know why

triangle
04-11-2018, 01:37 AM
Every time I switch to Modeler from another app I have to wait 5 seconds to start using it. Switching from windows explorer for instance, not Layout. Why ?


Or as it happens now I have a delay of 5 seconds when going from Modeler to Layout but not the other way around. Layout empty, modeler has a sphere in it so there should be nothing going on really.

Same here...

Almost not workable. in my workflow i switch a lot.

dnch
04-11-2018, 06:20 AM
yesterday my modeler crashed and couldnt start it again, i shut off all the related processes (layout, hub).. and still nothing.. modeler.exe is running, but nothing is on the screen, had to restart the computer:/

Tim Parsons
04-11-2018, 06:35 AM
Yeah it's a lot better in v.2018.0.3 but there are still some hiccups when switching. On occasion I've lost surface settings if I make a adjustments in Layout and go to modeler to work on the model - the surface settings disappear. I don't recall needing to save in 2015 or earlier before switching back to Modeler.

Bog
11-21-2018, 09:36 PM
Yeah, this is unbridled agony. Switching in and out takes random, arbitrarily long periods of times - seconds to "walk off and make a coffee" - to switch window focus.

And I've just choked solid trying to move seven four vertex trapezoids.

Seven of them.

This is broken. Can we fix Modeler now? Layout's WAY better. This is rank.

Tim Parsons
11-22-2018, 11:30 AM
Yeah, this is unbridled agony. Switching in and out takes random, arbitrarily long periods of times - seconds to "walk off and make a coffee" - to switch window focus.

And I've just choked solid trying to move seven four vertex trapezoids.

Seven of them.

This is broken. Can we fix Modeler now? Layout's WAY better. This is rank.

Are you talking about the delay between Layout and Modeler when switching back and forth? If so, make sure you have upgraded to 2018.0.7 as that update has solved that issue.