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raw-m
01-21-2018, 03:03 AM
The challenge: how can we do an animated extrudes in LW2018 now we don't have DP Kit or SG Fertiliser?

Here’s two very simple setups in LW2015, can this be replicated as easily in LW2018 with the new Mesh nodes? Would love to see examples.

https://youtu.be/cBJi8gi_Z60


https://youtu.be/cBJi8gi_Z60

erikals
01-21-2018, 09:06 AM
good question,

over at FaceBook, there were 3 alternatives
-Fertilizer (plugin)
-Trailer (plugin)
-Linedraw (by Alex Hartley) (LW2018 point offset)

short on time here, but i find the last (native) Point offset interesting
for the curious ones, read more at,
https://www.facebook.com/groups/lightwiki/permalink/1313069422132387
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3gAfMi7eiM
edit; however couldn't make it work on geometry, only 2 point poly chains

raw-m
01-21-2018, 09:11 AM
Haha, cheers Erikals, that was my post ;D That’s a great technique, will post it later but nothing other than polychains at the moment.

Ps, I can’t get Fertilizer to work on the Mac anymore, I think Triler is something slightly different. \

erikals
01-21-2018, 09:36 AM
Haha, cheers Erikals, that was my post ;D
and an important post! :)

That’s a great technique, will post it later but nothing other than polychains at the moment.

i just found out, it works on geometry, just make sure the point order is correct!
so, progress! :) :)

raw-m
01-21-2018, 09:45 AM
i just found out, it works on geometry, just make sure the point order is correct!
so, progress! :) :)

How did you find that out, this is as far as I got: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lightwiki/permalink/1313478288758167/

prometheus
01-21-2018, 10:43 AM
I think we really need a way in 2018 to use weight maps anyway, those are created specificly for branching, extruding a single pipe objec as long as you got right amount of points and correct order is one thing with nodes, but when branches split..hmm.

erikals
01-21-2018, 10:59 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9bV07BTbnM

Alex' scene file >
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3gAfMi7eiM

raw-m
01-21-2018, 12:05 PM
Thanks, school boy error - totally forgot to check the point order! Nice feature in 2018, Point Info will display the points when selected in the window. The downside is that the numbers disappear when you click off the window. Good start though!

N_A
01-21-2018, 12:11 PM
https://youtu.be/tpDTZ3yQWKM
my little experiment.

raw-m
01-21-2018, 12:30 PM
Amazing!!! I’m not at LW right now but will check later - got a feeling a might get a little scared if I open up that compound node! Big thanks :D

Looking at it, I think this probably better than Shifter as the polys don’t move around the path.

N_A
01-21-2018, 12:45 PM
I forgot to mention the mode (set):

139646

raw-m
01-21-2018, 12:48 PM
I forgot to mention the mode (set):

139646

Great! I’ve noticed the little equals sign in the Displacement node means “set”.

zapper1998
01-21-2018, 03:52 PM
wow nice

raw-m
01-23-2018, 04:19 AM
Just a quick update to say THANK YOU N_A. This extrusion node is SO GOOD!!! And I can kind of follow what's going on in the compound node for future reference.

LW3dg should really put a node library of this stuff together - or at least some kind of sharing online resource, (built into a preset shelf?)!!

erikals
02-10-2018, 07:28 AM
somewhat related, here is a link to Part Move operations in LW2018 >
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?156018

hypersuperduper
02-10-2018, 08:13 AM
https://youtu.be/uw-OQx9rP_c
here is another test i did with this sort of thing back when this thread was hot. Never shared it though. Sort of like the N_A rig but it interpolates between sections. I can share scene if you like.

Can ODRoot be used to share nodal networks and stuff? I haven't really tried it yet.

erikals
02-10-2018, 10:10 AM
hi hypersuperduper :)

it'd be great if you could share, or perhaps a screen-grab.
the method you are using here looks to work much better in regards to extruding in a more uniform way.


Can ODRoot be used to share nodal networks and stuff? I haven't really tried it yet.
not sure, not on the LW2018 wagon yet.
ODRoot requires LW2018 i think.

prometheus
02-10-2018, 10:24 AM
Guys...point extrusion and order etc in all honour in 2018, but did I miss somewhere Any kind of weight map based extrusion, since I really think that is necessary, and neither fertilizer or dponts verdure grow displacement seem to work anymore.
Sorry that I haven´t had the time to investigate it all myself.

hypersuperduper
02-10-2018, 11:00 AM
here is the scene. it is not 2015 compatible because it uses2018s new mesh info node, so 2018 only(hence my OD Root question ) but I am sure you could make it work in 2015 by swapping some of the nodes for the dpkit equivalents. You basically just need a node that inputs a point index and outputs a position.

140057

Prometheus,
I dont know how fertilizer or DPonts grow work, could you provide a video or an example?

erikals
02-10-2018, 11:33 AM
previewed the scene, looks Great hypersuperduper,

a very complex node setup like assumed  :) hopefully someone at NT will make more simple nodes for this soon

thank you for sharing  https://i.imgur.com/eqihfxy.gif

for the curious ones >

https://i.imgur.com/qBkbnDm.gif

erikals
02-10-2018, 11:49 AM
Guys...point extrusion and order etc in all honour in 2018, but did I miss somewhere Any kind of weight map based extrusion, since I really think that is necessary, and neither fertilizer or dponts verdure grow displacement seem to work anymore.
Sorry that I haven´t had the time to investigate it all myself.
as for node features, based on NT input and other LightWaver's contributions, it seems that most of the underlying code/data is there,
they just need to "clean up" this and that. Layout has lots of potential, however it is not quite "there".

prometheus
02-10-2018, 12:21 PM
here is the scene. it is not 2015 compatible because it uses2018s new mesh info node, so 2018 only(hence my OD Root question ) but I am sure you could make it work in 2015 by swapping some of the nodes for the dpkit equivalents. You basically just need a node that inputs a point index and outputs a position.

140057

Prometheus,
I dont know how fertilizer or DPonts grow work, could you provide a video or an example?

Since I have anything that related in my old machine that still isn´t fixed, I would need to set it up for lightwave 2015, not today though...but the ability to make it simple with premade weight map from dponts verdure pack, or using the weight outwards plugin, you can make nice growing tentacles and trees ..I frankly don´t think it would be so easy..or even possible with some kind of point order limitation and also not being able to derive the growing without any weight map.

hypersuperduper
02-10-2018, 12:34 PM
Reply to Erikals:


It’s really not that complicated. It’s nothing compared to what bryphi or probiner throw together on the regular. The addition of the item ID Node has also made packing everything into a compound node you never need to open MUCH easier too. Item ID might just be my favorite new node. If newtek only added “self” to the item ID picker so you could refer to the object to which it is applied I think you could make compound nodes that were nearly as easy to use as a regular modifier. For displacement this isn’t a big deal, because generally it’s all applied to one object anyways, and LW2018 makes it pretty easy to find different parts of the mesh with nodes, but with nodal motion, where you are often applying the same network to multiple objects with a minor change not having “self” in Item ID is a serious oversight.


I agree that Newtek should figure out a way to help users share compound nodes. It would be great to be able to access them from the list instead of having to load them.

jeric_synergy
02-10-2018, 02:51 PM
If newtek only added “self” to the item ID picker so you could refer to the object to which it is applied I think you could make compound nodes that were nearly as easy to use as a regular modifier. For displacement ....}EDIT{... but with nodal motion, where you are often applying the same network to multiple objects with a minor change not having “self” in Item ID is a serious oversight.
:thumbsup: Please submit as a FEATURE REQUEST, asap. This is the kind of thing they should be able to whip up for a point upgrade.


I agree that Newtek should figure out a way to help users share compound nodes. It would be great to be able to access them from the list instead of having to load them.
??? I never tried it, but can you not simply save compound nodes like any other network? :'(

erikals
02-10-2018, 04:58 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngraw-m  Ps, I can’t get Fertilizer to work on the Mac anymore, I think Trailer is something slightly different.

you sure? works in LW2018/PC
try this scene >

if you can't make it work, consider a Bug report on that one

probiner
02-10-2018, 05:09 PM
https://i.giphy.com/l4pTr4e1L2VOLlv56.gif

SG_Fertilizer2 in 11.6.3

As for 2018... Is vector displacement is a thing in 2018?

erikals
02-10-2018, 06:57 PM
Neat!   :king:

no, i don't think so, the only LW2018 nodes containing the words vector are these >

https://i.imgur.com/AY9NbTB.png

hypersuperduper
02-11-2018, 03:57 AM
I think there is a way, to the extent that vector displacement is a displacement along a vector other than the surface normal. There is the mesh tangent node that appears to be able input a texture. So maybe vector displacement maps can be plugged in there. Never used it though.

From the manual:
“Mesh Tangent
Input item ID of an object and a point index, outputs the tangent, normal, and binormal directions at that point. Tangent is based on texture coordinate direction specified in the node's settings.”

As for how to do that fertilizer thing with nodes in lw2018.... Above my pay grade.

hypersuperduper
02-11-2018, 04:08 AM
:thumbsup: Please submit as a FEATURE REQUEST, asap. This is the kind of thing they should be able to whip up for a point upgrade.


??? I never tried it, but can you not simply save compound nodes like any other network? :'(

I submitted a feature request a couple weeks ago. I may be wrong, but I get the sense the team is currently strictly focused on fixing bugs for the next patch release at least. ALL the bugs I have reported are set as in progress or fixed pending review. Whereas feature requests are just sitting there. It makes sense that this would be their priority, seems prudent.

Yes you can save compound nodes, but it would be cool to access them in the list. Loading is cumbrsome.

jeric_synergy
02-11-2018, 09:23 AM
Yes you can save compound nodes, but it would be cool to access them in the list. Loading is cumbrsome.
Well, there's another feature request right there. "User defined node networks in node list".

Thanks for making that request.

While LWG may have set their sights low-ish for the point upgrades, simple & sensible additions to existing nodes should be, IMO, included in such activities. Something like adding SELF, what with the existing infrastructure all there (ie, other nodes already use SELF), should be a doddle for them.

jbrookes
02-13-2018, 01:34 PM
I submitted a feature request a couple weeks ago. I may be wrong, but I get the sense the team is currently strictly focused on fixing bugs for the next patch release at least. ALL the bugs I have reported are set as in progress or fixed pending review. Whereas feature requests are just sitting there. It makes sense that this would be their priority, seems prudent.

Yes you can save compound nodes, but it would be cool to access them in the list. Loading is cumbrsome.

How did you look up the bug-fix status?

hypersuperduper
02-14-2018, 02:13 AM
How did you look up the bug-fix status?

All of your reported issues should be accessible on your account page on the lw homepage. The link can be found towards the bottom of the right hand menu. Under “reports”.

raw-m
02-14-2018, 03:22 PM
you sure? works in LW2018/PC
try this scene >

if you can't make it work, consider a Bug report on that one

Sorry for late reply - didn't get an email that the thread had been updated! Loads of nice stuff :D

SG Fertiliser "failed to load" on Mac, but if you have it there on PC I will put in a bug report.

Also, this new node - Transform Point, not sure how to use it either - can anyone deconstruct? The excellent Deuce pointed it out in the latest LWUG twitch broadcast but didn't take it any further!

raw-m
02-14-2018, 03:28 PM
here is the scene. it is not 2015 compatible because it uses2018s new mesh info node, so 2018 only(hence my OD Root question ) but I am sure you could make it work in 2015 by swapping some of the nodes for the dpkit equivalents. You basically just need a node that inputs a point index and outputs a position.

140057

Love this example, too! Isn't there a way to automatically know how many points in an object instead of having to feed it in manually (esp with this new geometry engine)?

jwiede
02-14-2018, 04:09 PM
Love this example, too! Isn't there a way to automatically know how many points in an object instead of having to feed it in manually (esp with this new geometry engine)?

In C/C++ or Python, sure. A node could be written with LWSDK to give that info (doesn't Sensei/TrueArt already offer such a node for LW2018?). On quick inspection I didn't see any that did already, but might have missed it.

Once you know how many there are, though, how do you plan to iterate through them?

hypersuperduper
02-14-2018, 05:41 PM
In C/C++ or Python, sure. A node could be written with LWSDK to give that info (doesn't Sensei/TrueArt already offer such a node for LW2018?). On quick inspection I didn't see any that did already, but might have missed it.

Once you know how many there are, though, how do you plan to iterate through them?
The node network offsets the point positions based on their indices, but needs to know the total points in order to clamp it otherwise it wraps around to the beginning again. Seems silly to need to define the total points manually when there should be a node that provides it.

hypersuperduper
02-14-2018, 05:52 PM
Love this example, too! Isn't there a way to automatically know how many points in an object instead of having to feed it in manually (esp with this new geometry engine)?

Thanks! No I couldn’t find any node that provided that information, unfortunately. There are lots of little omissions like that. One thing I have noticed, and appreciate, is that their limitations notwithstanding, the mesh info nodes have been VASTLY More stable than Dpkit. My scenes tended to bug out if I used the old part move and stuff, an would need to be reloaded. The new native nodes have been rock solid. I wonder if that is due to the new mesh engine?

jwiede
02-14-2018, 07:32 PM
The node network offsets the point positions based on their indices, but needs to know the total points in order to clamp it otherwise it wraps around to the beginning again. Seems silly to need to define the total points manually when there should be a node that provides it.

Worth checking if the LW2018 version of TrueArt's Node Library includes that value as one of its outputs. Might also be worth asking Sensei to add such a node to said library.

jeric_synergy
02-22-2018, 12:34 AM
Love this example, too! Isn't there a way to automatically know how many points in an object instead of having to feed it in manually (esp with this new geometry engine)?

I think this was a node output feature (total # of points) that I requested Denis to add to his plugins, and which he did, like in hours or days. It makes certain operations possible.

With any luck Matt or Deuce will see this thread and get it implemented tout de suite. Seems like a seriously low Low Hanging Fruit. What could be more trivial than the application knowing how many points is in an Object??? :yingyang:

raw-m
08-26-2018, 02:24 PM
https://youtu.be/tpDTZ3yQWKM
my little experiment.

Sorry to bring this back but I need a tweak to this great setup but can't get it to work! Basically, I'm building up lots of 2 point poly chains in one layer and need to randomise their starting positions.

I thought the attached would work but everything still animates uniformly.

Is there a simple tweak to the compound node that could be made or am I missing something obvious? Any help would be much appriciated :D

jwiede
08-26-2018, 02:58 PM
LW3dg should really put a node library of this stuff together - or at least some kind of sharing online resource, (built into a preset shelf?)!!

Customers have been suggesting this for the better part of a decade, to no avail. Probably best not to get your hopes up.

N_A
08-26-2018, 04:25 PM
...I'm building up lots of 2 point poly chains in one layer and need to randomise their starting positions...
I attached a small example.
142592

MonroePoteet
08-26-2018, 05:03 PM
Thanks to N_A for this great Compound node setup! As an alternative for random start times, you could just subtract your Random Scalar from the Frame, then Clamp it between 0 and 120 (or whatever your maximum frame might be):

142593

I multiplied the Part Index by 31 (prime) for the Random Scalar seed because using just Part Index produced a little too many simultaneous starts for my taste. The Floor node is required to make it an Integer rather than a Scalar so you don't have some wierd fractional displacement.

mTp

raw-m
08-27-2018, 04:44 AM
LW peeps rock!! Thank you so much :D :D

MonroePoteet
08-27-2018, 10:49 AM
Glad to help! Looking forward to another great Mark Warner tutorial!

As a quick addendum, the maximum value on the Clamp node doesn't have to match the last frame of the animation, and indeed it might be better to set it to some arbitrary large number, like 10,000 so other envelopes / limitations control the end of the animation rather than the Clamp. Then, if you decide to stretch the animation for whatever reason, the Clamp node wouldn't interfere.

mTp

raw-m
09-15-2018, 02:29 AM
Still loving this compound node but one final request, please!! I’d like to amend it to work similarly the After Effect’s Trim Paths option when using shape layers, so I can animate/trim the start and end points of an object - think a little like fluid running through a tube where I have control of the start and end points of the fluid, or perhaps a fake inertia effect.

I can animate as above (works really well) but I can’t figure out how to animate the “base” end. I’m sure I’m missing something simple but for the life of me can’t work out how make it work in reverse, but on the same object. Any hints would be much appreciated?

N_A
09-16-2018, 07:11 AM
2 examples

raw-m
09-16-2018, 01:06 PM
SPECTAULAR!! Thank you so much :D

This is going to save so much time where I'd have to flatten out a model then reconstruct in Layout (downside of a split app). Feels much more stable than DP Shifter, too :D

jeric_synergy
09-16-2018, 11:13 PM
It's always frustrating to be #aflw when the good stuff gets shared! :D

I'm intrigued to find out how this works, esp if Mark is impressed, given all the extrusion tutes he's created. :thumbsup:

N_A
09-19-2018, 09:42 AM
I'm learning programming nodes in LW2018. Made a node to calculate the number of points and faces. Only for Windows. The attachment contains old examples that use this node instead of manual input.

raw-m
09-19-2018, 01:13 PM
Sounds good but haven’t tried it as I’m Mac based. Out of interest, what is the component that makes finding number of point/faces PC only? I thought that would be cross platform?

N_A
09-19-2018, 02:03 PM
I do not know how to compile C++ plugin for Mаc on Windows. Probably need to buy a Mac or install a virtual system. I have not studied this problem in detail.