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Chuck
12-23-2003, 10:01 AM
Hi, Folks!

Earlier this year, using the best information we had at the time, we announced that LightWave 3D 8 would be shipping sometime in the fourth quarter. Although we are comprehensively beta testing LightWave 8 now to make sure that there are no last-minute hitches, it is not yet at a stage that we feel would allow us to ship it this month. All the new features are implemented and it's getting really close, but it's still not quite ready for our seal of approval. Our new LightWave development team is very focused on putting out the highest quality, best integrated version of LightWave ever, and we think you are going to be very happy when you see the work they've done. We appreciate your patience as we put the final, finishing touches on LightWave 8.

After the holidays, we'll have more information about the LightWave 3D 8 shipping schedule. In the meantime, we will soon start posting a series of demo videos to show off some of LightWave 8's exciting new features. In addition to a complete LightWave 8 feature list, we'll also be posting new LightWave 8 screenshots and tutorials on our website.

From the NewTek family to yours: Enjoy the Holidays!

DigiLusionist
12-23-2003, 10:06 AM
Thanks for that, Chuck! Happy Holidays!

And I hope the programmers have visions of sugar plums, not code, floating in their heads as they sleep this week...

Kvaalen
12-23-2003, 10:11 AM
Thanks for the news! Take all the time you want (not to much though) and make it the best possible!

I'm glad to hear that we'll be getting more information, tutorials, videos... for the time being.

Keep it up. :)

object
12-23-2003, 10:15 AM
Thanks for the update Chuck and Have a great holiday.

Exper
12-23-2003, 10:18 AM
Thanks Chuck! ;)

Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to NT! :)

Bye.

nixx
12-23-2003, 10:18 AM
Thanks for the news, Chuck ! I 'm glad the team is determined to deliver a good, solid product. Take some time off, get some rest, enjoy the holiday, and get back to work right after that ;)

I just hope that you guys keep updating us about the progress (that's all we ask !).

Merry Christmas, and have a blast on new year's eve !

nick

liquidik
12-23-2003, 10:29 AM
Thanks Chuck,

we all in our hearth know that, but your words are truly appreciated. Very very much looking forward to the video demos (please don't start another war for their "shipment") and have a very Happy Christmas.

Liquid

Nemoid
12-23-2003, 10:30 AM
Thanx Chuck!

And Merry Christmas to all guys and gals at Newtek.

Its a good thing taking some more time to make Lw rocking solid as the great app deserves ! :)

Ciao from Italy!

Lor
12-23-2003, 10:33 AM
Chuck, thanks for this great news.

I hope the whole LW team gets a good rest over the holidays. Well deserved, no doubt. I bet you guys have been burning the candle at both ends...

Looking forward to the release even more now...

Nick

JeF
12-23-2003, 10:39 AM
Merci.

Your update is really welcome and please take the time it need as long as the software is rock solid.

The complete list of feature is also welcome for all those who allready bought [8].
Now we can take our vacations with cleared minds.

Oh, and also give yourself at Newtek some true holidays!

julos
12-23-2003, 10:39 AM
arghhhhh and me who wanted to see those new animation tools before the end of december (motion builder offer...), well we'll just have to wait then :)

Gabe
12-23-2003, 10:43 AM
Cool. I didn't have the bread to spend on it right now anyway so I'm glad their taking the time to really make sure it's ready to ship. Nothing kills the excitement of a new release like a buggy app.

colkai
12-23-2003, 11:01 AM
Hope everyone at Newtek has a good break, they deserve it!
A few days away from the code does no-one any harm, (I speak from experience ;) ).

Look forward to the feature list, videos and tutorials as and when they arrive.

Best Wishes to all.

RiGLEY
12-23-2003, 11:06 AM
Thanks for the update Chuck !
Keep us UPDATED

Merry Christmas !

cresshead
12-23-2003, 11:30 AM
okay..."as you were" then!

stop the countdown!....switch over to have a look at the beagle 2 landing on mars on xmas day instead of hoping for lw8 to appear this year...

s'pose this gives me time to load lw7.5c and see what the fuss was all about that update i never bothered with!

.......


hey what did chuck say?????

"best integrated version of LightWave "

integrated ????


does that mean what i think it does????

well here's hoping!



steve g

RomainR
12-23-2003, 11:36 AM
Thank you Chuck,

Happy Hollidays to everyone.

eggy
12-23-2003, 12:04 PM
:mad:

have a nice christmas working on lightwave 8, it's about time for a release or some news.

sire
12-23-2003, 12:13 PM
I just lost my house, my car, my dog and my wife in a bet! ;)

TSpyrison
12-23-2003, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by sire
I just lost my house, my car, my dog and my wife in a bet! ;)

You'll miss that car and dog wont ya?

:D

archiea
12-23-2003, 12:36 PM
thanks for the post, Chuck. I hope the gang enjoys the holidays, and I hope proton makes out of intensive care!!;)

nawDsign
12-23-2003, 12:41 PM
THANKS chuck! Happy Holiday!!

GREAT!! It's a race.. which will be out first? M**o (the chameleon lightwave) or Lightwave[8] (the original lightwave)? And which will be more stable and optimized for the Mac? good times! emotional roller coaster.

:confused:

nerdyguy227
12-23-2003, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by sire
I just lost my house, my car, my dog and my wife in a bet! ;)

Really?




:mad:
have a nice christmas working on lightwave 8, it's about time for a release or some news.

Well, I think it would be better to wait and have it be really good than have it come out right now and it be bad!

Bytehawk
12-23-2003, 12:44 PM
thanks for clearing this up before the holidays.

have a great christmas y'all

eggy
12-23-2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by nerdyguy227

Well, I think it would be better to wait and have it be really good than have it come out right now and it be bad!

Sure but,

Newtek should be able to release a new version from time to time and they announced Lightwave 8 for 2003 (Q/4), Lightwave 7.0 is already two years old.

Sorry, but in my opinion Lightwave is getting behind in a lot of things when you compare it to the other competitors, they announced Lightwave 8 in, lets say May 2003, I paid for my update in June 2003 and now they can’t deliver, how can I trust a company like that.
2003 wasn’t the best Newtek “marketing” year, Lightwave 7.5b and c where a disaster and know what’s with 8 ?
If you announce a product you should deliver in the next few month or your customers get worried.

I still think Lightwave is the best product in this price segment, best bang for a buck, I’m just a worried customer.:(

nerdyguy227
12-23-2003, 01:54 PM
I agree that a company shoud be able to put something out when the say so, but do you know how much time is needed to make a new program?
NewTek wants it to be the best possable. It is not their falt you choose to be mad because you would rather have hundreds of bugs in it and it be releced now. Your reaction is your choice, so you being mad since it might take longer than thay calculated with better stuff in it is your fault. Yes, I think it would be nice if it could come out this year, but that can't happen.

Think what would happen if they releced it right now. Their tech support would be overloaded. What if you had a big project to do for your boss and it was dew tomarrow and it wouldn't render because of a bug? You would think even less of NewTek than you do now.

Time pases. I can promis you Christmas will pass. When I was little I couldn't wait to grow to be 12. It will be here. When it is here it wouldn't have seemed like a long time at all.

Would you rather it come out now with tons of bugs or later and have it be the best 3d editing program ever?

papou
12-23-2003, 02:00 PM
MXas, thanks!
We can wait a little more...
Ooi! Gambatte ne! Omedeto!

Gabe
12-23-2003, 02:39 PM
eggy
get a life man. Software release dates are always 'projected dates' and commonly get pushed back. As Chuck said, all the features have been put in the product, now they're just doing quality control to make sure it's not a buggy release. Good. I'm glad. Another month or two isn't gonna hurt you. And don't cry about paying for the update already. Noone made you do that. You spent your money knowing full well that the release could get pushed back.

TSpyrison
12-23-2003, 02:44 PM
Damned if you do, Damned if you dont...

Chuck
12-23-2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by eggy
Sure but,

Newtek should be able to release a new version from time to time and they announced Lightwave 8 for 2003 (Q/4), Lightwave 7.0 is already two years old.

Sorry, but in my opinion Lightwave is getting behind in a lot of things when you compare it to the other competitors, they announced Lightwave 8 in, lets say May 2003, I paid for my update in June 2003 and now they can’t deliver, how can I trust a company like that.
2003 wasn’t the best Newtek “marketing” year, Lightwave 7.5b and c where a disaster and know what’s with 8 ?
If you announce a product you should deliver in the next few month or your customers get worried.

I still think Lightwave is the best product in this price segment, best bang for a buck, I’m just a worried customer.:(


Creating a software product by nature is not absolutely predictable in terms of timing. It is not baking cookies, where you know that the right ingredients plus ten minutes of mixing and dolloping the result on a greased baking sheet plus 350 degrees and forty-five minutes of time will combine to complete your product. An estimated shipping date is not a promise, and missing an estimate is missing an estimate, not breaking a promise. It is regrettable that no matter how carefully we communicate that an estimate is an estimate, some people insist on seeing "we expect" or "we estimate", even when we were wisely unwilling to be more specific than to a quarter, as a firmly stated hard deadline. The result of that is not happy for anyone involved. Please reconsider the notion of viewing "we expect" or "we estimate" as anything more than exactly what they are - our best guess about the process, and always subject to change.

As for the issue of having purchased an upgrade to LW8 in June, one of two things is true: either you purchased a 7.5/DFX+ special offer upgrade which is entitled to a free update to LW8 when it ships, in which case you received $495 LW 7.5 upgrade and the $1780 DFX+ bundle; or you purchased an LW8/DFX+ upgrade bundle, which means you received the $1780 DFX+ package and will receive your $495 value LightWave 8 upgrade when LW8 ships. The only reason we offered that last product was to give 7.5 owners a path to the DFX+ special offer that also gave them a NewTek product, not because we are necessarily comfortable with the idea of pre-selling a product. In either case, what we did was to make sure that you were delivered product right at the time you purchased that greatly exceeded the value of your investment. And we are dedicated to making sure that LightWave 8, when we deliver, also exceeds, in and of itself, the value of your upgrade investment. Why would you not trust when you have already received, at a mimimum, $1780 or $2275 in new software for a $495 investment? You've already received several times the value of investment, and are assured to receive more.

At any rate, our apologies if you feel frustrated that we needed to revise our estimate and take the time to polish this release, but please rest assured, we will complete our work and release as expeditiously as possible.

Yog
12-23-2003, 02:59 PM
Thanks for the post Chuck, it'll do a lot of good for a lot of people :D

I would hope that now the deadline has been revised that Newtek give it's engineers a week (or two) off over the holiday season. No point burning out good people.

Steve McRae
12-23-2003, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Chuck
An estimated shipping date is not a promise, and missing an estimate is missing an estimate, not breaking a promise. It is regrettable that no matter how carefully we communicate that an estimate is estimate, some people insist on seeing "we expect" or "we estimate", even when we were wisely unwilling to be more specific than to a quarter, as a firmly stated hard deadline. The result of that is not happy for anyone involved. Please reconsider the notion of viewing "we expect" or "we estimate" as anything more than exactly what they are - our best guess about the process, and always subject to change.


. . . um forgive me for being a stickler, but up untill this month, most everyone did not even question wether or not the product would ship on time (the public that is) and the delivery date of it it was never presented in those terms - "a best guess". The impression that Newtek gave (intentionally or unintentially) and the impression that the customers of LW had was that would ship 4th quarter. Trying to state anything else is rewriting history . . .

TSpyrison
12-23-2003, 03:00 PM
Chuck,
Some of us understand. Others are going to ***** no matter what.

I thank you for the status update, and anxiously await lightwave 8
:)

jr_sunshine
12-23-2003, 03:00 PM
Chuck,

Most people stated they would be happy with a simple statement like "...we will not make it for 2003" and that's what we got. Thank you.

I think the fact that you are going to provide videos, tutorials, and screen shots is a nice shot of medicine for our wounded LW loving hearts.

Please see that promise through quickly. :-)

erich
12-23-2003, 03:02 PM
Thanks so much for all the long hours and hard work that you at Newtek are putting into all this. I for one really appreciate your taking the time to do it right. I still have (and I think most users) a lot to learn about 7.5, so I am in no way anxious that the estimated "deadline" is not going to be fulfilled. I am just glad your taking the time to do it right (unlike some other very large software companies that we all know about).

My hats off to ya! As for eggy's comments, I do not believe that they reflect the majority of users opinion and so please do not think everyone thinks like him in this matter. Please, please, take your time and continue to do it right.

Merry Christmas.

colkai
12-23-2003, 03:10 PM
Chuck,
As TSpyrison and others have already said, there are plenty of us who understand, like always, you just know some folks will moan and whine.

The old story eh? No matter, - just make sure you buy those coders a nice cool beer and give em a few days of relaxation before whupping them back into line :p

Enjoy the break - you all deserve it and no doubt you'll return to face more of the same ;) (Hey, what can ya do?)

Best regards as always!

Gabe
12-23-2003, 03:13 PM
. . um forgive me for being a stickler, but up untill this month, most everyone did not even question wether or not the product would ship on time (the public that is) and the delivery date of it it was never presented in those terms - "a best guess". The impression that Newtek gave (intentionally or unintentially) and the impression that the customers of LW had was that would ship 4th quarter. Trying to state anything else is rewriting history . . .

Maybe YOU thought that. I'm sure a lot of people ARE NOT surprised by the extended release date. Show me where Newtek promised us it would be out by Q4. As far as I remember it was slated for release then but not promised. As I said before software release dates are often pushed back. Big deal. My guess is you haven't come close to mastering LW7.5 yet so stop whining and get to work.

trick
12-23-2003, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Chuck
...An estimated shipping date is not a promise, and missing an estimate is missing an estimate, not breaking a promise...

On Oct.16th I received a message from Newtek with the first paragraph as follows:

This is it folks! It’s time to get off the fence. You’ve probably heard about the great pre-upgrade special we’ve been running for the last few months. We’ve decided to extend that special offer just until LightWave [8] ships --and we’re announcing today that it will ship in the fourth quarter, 2003 -- that’s some time in the next 72 days! The new version, currently in beta, includes enhancements in dynamics, character animation, modeling workflow and tools, animation workflow, texturing tools, and more! ...

I think this can only be understood one way !!!

I'm very glad NT's priority is to bring out a stable next release, instead of a buggy beta. Because of this thight community you can have users pay for a (6.0) beta and iron it towards a more perfect and workable (7.0) release. Because of that same community you can have users pay for a non-existing (8.0) release by making deals with third parties (Eye-on). In my opinion every user that pre-upgraded, helped in adding time for developing a stable new version, by removing the financial pressure. So [8] was never predestined to come out this year.

My hopes are for a stable new [8] and more clear language that shows you are taking this community as seriously as that same community is taking Lightwave !!!!

Steve McRae
12-23-2003, 03:24 PM
. . . yes - I am not complaining that it is late - just complaining about the spin, spin, spin . . .

prospector
12-23-2003, 03:25 PM
I still believe in Santa and am waiting for a surprise message Christmas Eve. It could be a ploy so people would quit askin when....
It's something I would do..:D

kfiram
12-23-2003, 03:25 PM
Chuck,
Thanks for clarifying that issue.
However, there's still some more clarification needed:

Since you missed your expected delivery date (never mind, it happens) you must have a new "educated guess" (a.k.a "estimated delivery date"). We would sure like to know that. Is it a couple of weeks (as in: mid-January), a month, two months, more...?

If it's less than a month, I guess we can hold.
But if it's more, I ask again that you give us a beta in the meantime. Some of us have been pushing projects forward in time, waiting for 8 (I know I have). We could start doing them using Motion Builder or Messiah, but we would sure rather do them on LW8. If we could get a beta, as I have stated before, we could at least start learning, training our work-force, and also begin rigging (possibly even animating).

Chuck
12-23-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by atomman
. . . um forgive me for being a stickler, but up untill this month, most everyone did not even question wether or not the product would ship on time (the public that is) and the delivery date of it it was never presented in those terms - "a best guess". The impression that Newtek gave (intentionally or unintentially) and the impression that the customers of LW had was that would ship 4th quarter. Trying to state anything else is rewriting history . . .

Forgive me for being a stickler, :) but I've written or participated in writing nearly all of our press releases and public announcements, and we have phrased it as an estimate each time, specifically with either the word "expect" or "estimate".

Having written the history in the first place, I don't have to rewrite it, just quote it. ;)

Chuck
12-23-2003, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by kfiram
Chuck,
Thanks for clarifying that issue.
However, there's still some more clarification needed:

Since you missed your expected delivery date (never mind, it happens) you must have a new "educated guess" (a.k.a "estimated delivery date"). We would sure like to know that. Is it a couple of weeks (as in: mid-January), a month, two months, more...?

If it's less than a month, I guess we can hold.
But if it's more, I ask again that you give us a beta in the meantime. Some of us have been pushing projects forward in time, waiting for 8 (I know I have). We could start doing them using Motion Builder or Messiah, but we would sure rather do them on LW8. If we could get a beta, as I have stated before, we could at least start learning, training our work-force, and also begin rigging (possibly even animating).

As we've mentioned, we'll be providing further information after the holidays...

evilemil
12-23-2003, 03:43 PM
hi newtek guys, hi chuck.
at least a clearing word from you. so we do not have to check the newtek and cgtalk forum for the news, that there is LW 8 ready for download.

i am actually sitting in the office, because we also have to ship a piece of software. but we are not in the position to delay it, as this would break the preorder deals.
better keep your time and surprise us with something mindblowing, than pleasing some unpatient fellows. (btw, i have already paid, and i am also unpatient)

i am looking forward to the next year and a new version of LW.
so, enjoy your christmas holidays.
i think you guys need it.

TSpyrison
12-23-2003, 03:46 PM
Just dont let the programing team rest TOO long ..
They've got work to finish :)
Give em a month vacation after 8 ships.
:D

Steve McRae
12-23-2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Chuck
I've written or participated in writing nearly all of our press releases and public announcements, and we have phrased it as an estimate each time, specifically with either the word "expect" or "estimate".


Let me quote:


Originally posted by trick
On Oct.16th I received a message from Newtek with the first paragraph as follows:

[B]This is it folks! It’s time to get off the fence. You’ve probably heard about the great pre-upgrade special we’ve been running for the last few months. We’ve decided to extend that special offer just until LightWave [8] ships --and we’re announcing today that it will ship in the fourth quarter, 2003 -- that’s some time in the next 72 days! The new version, currently in beta, includes enhancements in dynamics, character animation, modeling workflow and tools, animation workflow, texturing tools, and more! ...


. . . no "expect", no "estimate" here . . .

Chuck
12-23-2003, 03:56 PM
Sample quotes:

From http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/10-16-03a.html

"expected to ship in the fourth quarter of this year, NewTek's LightWave [8] includes enhancements in dynamics, character animation, modeling workflow and tools, animation workflow, texturing tools, and more..."

"LightWave 3D [8] is expected to ship in the fourth quarter of 2003..."

Similar language in:

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/07-29-03a.html

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/07-28-03a.html

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/07-28-03b.html

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/07-28-03c.html

The other quote above, in Trick's post, is from a direct marketing email - and yup, I'd call that phrasing hubris on our part and a departure that we shouldn't have made from being clear that an estimate is an estimate. Apologies that we did that, and for my own part I'll certainly urge that we don't do so in future.

Chuck
12-23-2003, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by atomman
Let me quote:



. . . no "expect", no "estimate" here . . .

There certainly is in the announcement that was being referred to, which I quoted above in my previous post on this thread; as I said there, I would certainly agree that the direct email should have shared the same language as the actual announcement and in fact all the preceding press releases that referred to the matter.

hrgiger
12-23-2003, 04:02 PM
I think someone else said it best earlier in the thread. I don't think Eggy's comments reflect the majority of Lightwave users here.

I've been coming home from work every day and the first thing I do after kissing my wife is to run upstairs and check the community for news on 8. Every day I've come home and nothing. That's ok. But today we get an update on the status of 8 not to mention, the promise of some new videos as well as a full feature list after the holidays.

For some of us, I think we understand that there was a major shake-up at Newtek in the last few years between the release of 7 and now. The fact that it's coming out now really shows how Newtek has regrouped and got it's act together. A lot of new talent is on the team, and I think we have some good things to look forward to. As I understand it, we can expect a more aggressive update policy then in the past. I'll wait to see for myself, but I'm too excited about the release of Lightwave 8 to worry about what's coming next.

THANKS TO NEWTEK AND ALL OF IT"S GREAT STAFF! Have a great holiday

Steve McRae
12-23-2003, 04:08 PM
. . . cool - thank you . . .

. . . the general point of my post has been lost . . .

. . . I took issue with the fact that your post seemed to give the impression that the delivery date was historically much more ambiguous than it actually was . . . the average consumer expected it to be forth quarter . . . maybe it was not your intention . . .

. . . have a restful Christmas . ..

js33
12-23-2003, 04:16 PM
Hey Chuck,

Don't worry about the sticklers. Take your time and get it right. As has been said I don't think there is one person that has or ever will master all that is in 7.5. I have done some programming and I know how hard it is.

For all the sticklers ...

Have any of you ever done any programming?

Do any of you have even a clue how complex a program like Lightwave is?

Merry Christmas Chuck and all at Newtek. Have a worry free holiday and know that we are all behind you.

Cheers,
JS

lonestar1
12-23-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by kfiram
If it's less than a month, I guess we can hold.
But if it's more, I ask again that you give us a beta in the meantime. Some of us have been pushing projects forward in time, waiting for 8 (I know I have). We could start doing them using Motion Builder or Messiah, but we would sure rather do them on LW8. If we could get a beta, as I have stated before, we could at least start learning, training our work-force, and also begin rigging (possibly even animating).

Who is "us"?

Chuck stated that LW8 is in beta right now. If that's so, they probably have at least a month of stabilization to do when the beta period is finished, so I wouldn't expect to see anything until Feb or so.

If you are not part of the beta program, that probably means you did not apply for it -- I'm not sure what Newtek's procedure is for that, but I'm sure posting a request in this forum is not the right way to go about it -- or you applied but did did not qualify. Remember, a beta test is a software *test*. Its purpose is to find bugs and fix them -- not to allow customers to learn the software, train employees, and begin new projects. If Newtek doesn't believe a specific customer can provide useful bug reports, they have no obligation to include that customer in the test.

If you mean Newtek should create an open beta program for all LW users, IMO, that would be a very bad idea at this point. Open beta tests are notoriously hard to manage. Adding one at the end of the development cycle could only delay the product release.

Finally, I would caution you that using beta-test software for production work is very dangerous. You might begin rigging with a beta version of LW8 only to find out that a feature you used works differently or is not included in the final release.

Kuzey
12-23-2003, 04:19 PM
Thank You, one and all at Newtek !!!

I can't wait to see the videos :D

I remember LW7 wasn't announced, it just was released over night without a hint or an "estimate" insight.

I must say...I liked it more this time around, with all the previews and such.
It's been a fascinating process...watching LW 8 taking shape:D :D

Kuzey

Chuck
12-23-2003, 04:20 PM
Kfiram is talking about a Beta-Force release, something that we've done at times in the LightWave development cycle and in the VT development cycle. It's certainly something to consider, but not something we were planning (so far) for the 8.0 release.

archiea
12-23-2003, 04:22 PM
heh, All I gotta say is that it could be worse... it could be discreet.....

Combustion 3.0, as underwhelming as it was, was annouced and then released...but only for the PC... the mac version is to follow at least a full quater later.

And then Discreet has a big splash on their page about macworld... wohoo... I think they are bipolar....

The fact that we have NT people replying to our squables is a reflection of the company's policies...

I just wish, now that 8 is delayed, that there was a fix for the graph editor in 7.5 with Panther... But if there aren't enough resourses then I guess not.

I do the same as hrgiger, I come home and.... I'm .... so..... alone.......:mad:

TSpyrison
12-23-2003, 04:30 PM
Maybe next time, they should just not tell us anything, and one day say hey.. here is Lightwave 9. Come and get it..

Kuzey
12-23-2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by TSpyrison
Maybe next time, they should just not tell us anything, and one day say hey.. here is Lightwave 9. Come and get it..

It's not the best way to go...I think.

I for one have loved all the previews and discussions (interface design, new features etc).



Kuzey

siproductions
12-23-2003, 04:49 PM
Many thanks for the update Chuck. No problems here. I'll wait.:D

pblacklock
12-23-2003, 05:04 PM
even with Beta-Force release, its still had bugs, take your time guys and give us the best Lightwave ever.

Now we've got no excuse but to spend the holidays and have a great time with family and friends. :)


Merry Christmas Everyone,

Paul

archiea
12-23-2003, 05:10 PM
I recal the release for 7... I was at a special presentation for a preview of v7. Zbrad was giving a demo. At the end of the demo, two people won copies of LW 6.5. Inside the huge LW6.5 box was a box for LW 7. The preview became the release. I gotta admit... that was kewl!!!!

I say xmas morning, NT should post new screen shots of 8.. that would almost just as kewl...

hrgiger
12-23-2003, 05:12 PM
I for one think that Newtek has been pretty good about giving us information about the upcoming LW8 release. First of all, Kuzey is right. There wasn't any information released about 7 before it came out. It just debuted at Siggraph as I remember it. It was kind of a surprise. So just for that fact alone, that we know 6months ahead of time that a release is forthcoming is pretty good I think.

There have also been numerous teasers and peeks at 8 since Siggraph this year.

I could understand people being upset if 4th quarter had come and gone and no word from Newtek, but here Chuck is, giving us an update so we're not left wondering. Wonder no more.

The thing that chaps my *** the most though, is people complaining because they paid for a Lightwave upgrade months ago, and they still don't have it. I guess $1700 of free software just isn't enough for some people.

hrgiger
12-23-2003, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by cresshead

hey what did chuck say?????

"best integrated version of LightWave "

integrated ????

does that mean what i think it does????

well here's hoping!

steve g

As much as that sounds real nice, I don't think they've integrated modeler and layout if that's what you're referring to. I think they probably just mean, a lot of the new features and some of the old ones are probably inegrated into the core of the program and are not simply just plug-ins.

Not that I know that for sure or anything...Interesting that we haven't seen much from modeler even though, supposedly there have been improvements to it. I guess we'll find out soon enough what changes have been made.

SLAYER
12-23-2003, 05:18 PM
No biggie to me, but just to add to all of this "expect" and "estimate" talk, what about the quote in 3D World?

This is what made me the most certain that it would ship this year. This was not a letter to members or an ad on the Newtek site or a post in one of these threads. This was a quote in a global publication.

I cannot remember the quote, but I am sure that somebody has it lying around. It was in an issue a couple of months back and was basically reassuring that this time Newtek will live up to its promise and release when thay said because they have been known for slipping in the past. I believe it was in an answer from Chuck to a question from the interviewer.

archiea
12-23-2003, 05:19 PM
true, but alot people took the $1500 software as being free and that the $495 was for LW. :D . I say we had alot of signs as up until December, NT was very vocal about 8 being released, and then silence.. I felt somewhat prepared for a later release. Just too bad tht panther can;t work with 7.5c...

Beamtracer
12-23-2003, 05:30 PM
I'd hate to know what all you people were like when you were little kids at around Christmas time. It would have been unbearable to be your parents!!!

WilliamVaughan
12-23-2003, 05:38 PM
LightWave 8 Demo Videos


Here is the first batch of LightWave 8 Videos for you to sink your teeth into. I started with the most requested features and will continue to create more over the next few weeks. The first four videos will show you some of the new dynamics as well as the new character tools for setting up a rig in a character. Look for more videos in the near future and Happy Holidays from the folks at NewTek!


Right Click and Save Files Below:

ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/ClothFx_001.avi 32.5 MB

ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/HardFx_001.avi 62 MB

ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/SoftFx_001.avi 42.6 MB

ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/LW8Demos/IKB_001.avi 36.8 MB



You will need the Techsmith Codec to view these videos.
Codecs Page:

PC Codec: http://www.techsmith.com/products/studio/codec.asp

Mac Codec: http://www.techsmith.com/download/ensharpendecoder.asp

archiea
12-23-2003, 05:41 PM
hey, there are no "estimates" when it comes to santa... December 25th drop date.... No if's, and's, or but's... The only condition is that you had to be good...

Its when you grow up that you start to find lumps of coal even if you are good!!!!!

hey thanks tor the tuts, Proton!!!

Kuzey
12-23-2003, 05:44 PM
No biggie to me, but just to add to all of this "expect" and "estimate" talk, what about the quote in 3D World?


If there wasn't a specific date and time for release, eg December 29th, 10 am...then it's just a rough guess at best.

You guys must give your meteorologist hell when they get the weather wrong;)

Kuzey

mrunion
12-23-2003, 06:02 PM
Thanks for the vids!!!!

Macet01
12-23-2003, 06:03 PM
First of all I would like to thank Chuck and Proton, not only for putting up with all the complaining up to this point but for all the hell some people currently are and will be putting them through.

***rant mode on***

They could have just said "It ain't done....deal with it" but they haven't. They are letting us in on the new features, they are giving us videos and trying their best to keep us up to date.

Yes ver 8 will not be out when we would have liked it to. But then again, nobody held a gun to anyone's head forcing them to prepurchase it. I think that we got one hell of a deal just for getting DFX + with the pre purchase. All this griping and complaining has got to be the most childish and unproductive waste of time I have seen. I also firmly believe that the ones who are making the most noise here would be the same ones standing at the front of the "This is damn buggy software" rants if they had released it early.

So guys, take a chill pill. Sit back. Watch the videos which we are being given and feel safe in the knowledge that the very people you are beating over the head here have absolutly no control over the development, programming or release of the very software you are screaming about. Let it rest!!!!!!!

***rant mode off***

prospector
12-23-2003, 06:12 PM
HEY
I'm still waiting for that 1 little 4 word sentence coming on Christmas morning posted here and it shall read
'Lightwave 8 is posted'

C'MON SANTA!!! deliver that gift:D

Chrysolithos
12-23-2003, 06:27 PM
Merry Christmas Chuck! ^_^

Gui Lo
12-23-2003, 07:01 PM
Thanks Chuck and Proton for the update.

Please keep giving us news about future features and releases. Although 2003 was not a good year for NewTek I think the web based marketing has been excellent at reasurring us of any doubts held concerning the future of LW.

I think you realise that any negative comments and accusations come a few very disapointed people who really, really want version 8 but will gratefully appreciate a very stable release.

Releasing information in video form is fantastic. Firstly it shows the new feature working and the methodology, etc. Secondly it must help with the bug finding process.

All in all I think it was a Ouch! year for NewTek and the LW team but a very good year for the product and the community.

A jolly Christmas and happy New Year to you and all the team.

Gui Lo

nerdyguy227
12-23-2003, 07:41 PM
Can't wait for LW 8

All the upset people don't yell at Chuck and Proton...Yell at NewTek!!!

jk

don't yell at all. NewTek is a great company.

I have a question for proton and Chuck:

Would you rather LW 8 come out now with tons of bugs but no spoiled complainers, or would you rather it come out in a few weeks and have no bugs (or very few) ?

wgreenlee1
12-23-2003, 08:24 PM
tons of bugs...........lol

we would like to have what we paid for.or you guys paid for

seriously...you cant dis these guys that are waiting
newtek brought it out at siggraph for sales purposes and now its making some upset...i dont blame them
its not going to help but you cant blame them...........:D

HowardM
12-23-2003, 09:08 PM
maybe all you fan boys should read here?
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111473&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

make sure you read all the pages, good holiday reading!

hrgiger
12-23-2003, 09:52 PM
Not very festive or filled with holiday cheer. Just a bunch of complaining.

DeltaF86
12-24-2003, 12:46 AM
Good, take your time!

*cries*

DeltaF86
12-24-2003, 12:57 AM
I love you and all of the NewTek team!

:D :D :D

philip
12-24-2003, 01:52 AM
I'm not disappointed! I crashed with my Yamaha R1 on sunday, *that* was a disappointment... one which will cost me $$$ and my bones are still hurting :p
(heh, now my avatar really makes sense :D)

chuck posting the news here is just fair. Take your time, and take your time off over the holidays!

Better wait a couple of days than having a buggy update.

cheers

Nemoid
12-24-2003, 02:06 AM
Thanx Chuck & Proton for giving
us videos and explaining things about Lw release.

I think that even if Lw didn't match the estimated date, this happened because Nt listened in someway to its customers and
decided to make Lw stronger and rocking solid as it deserves.

If so, this is a good choice, cause the market is very aggressive now, and Lw must have its great place among good 3D apps. :)

Exper
12-24-2003, 02:31 AM
Agree! :p

colkai
12-24-2003, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by hrgiger
The thing that chaps my *** the most though, is people complaining because they paid for a Lightwave upgrade months ago, and they still don't have it. I guess $1700 of free software just isn't enough for some people.

Amen Brother - tell it to the masses ;)

Yup - DFX+ whoo-de-frickin-doo! I had been toying with the thought of compositing software, got Aura DV - yet ANOTHER freebie from Newtek (Go Chuck..Go Chuck..)
Err sorry - where was I ? oh yeah..

So, because I use LW, I get an industry standard compositor FREE because I upgraded - how ******* cool is that?

Trust me - LW[8] not being here for Xmas is NOT a major thing to deal with in life, it's just a piece of software. I'm not a 'fanboy' or a Newtek sycophant, I've complained plenty myself before now. However, I have been made painfully aware that there are far more important things to put your efforts into!

Be well, be merry, look to your friends and family, it would do us all good to step back once in a while, a computer is no good for the things in life that really matter. Plus, you can't cuddle up to it at night. (If you do, wellll....let's not go there shall we? :P)

Merry Xmas
-Colkai

badllarma
12-24-2003, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by philip
I'm not disappointed! I crashed with my Yamaha R1 on sunday, *that* was a disappointment... one which will cost me $$$ and my bones are still hurting :p
(heh, now my avatar really makes sense :D)

Glad your still with us philip my cus has one of those beasts and all I can say it's the most fun you can have with your clothes on :D Last time I was on it I think we clocked 138 mph (twice what we were supposed to be doing at the time for the legal limit on the road) :cool:

Back to the topic cool I'm glad that Newtek are looking to get it right first time! And a break away from things for a couple of weeks can do nothing but good for all the staff concerned, have a good one folks.

andy

Exper
12-24-2003, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by colkai
...
got Aura DV - yet ANOTHER freebie from Newtek (Go Chuck..Go Chuck..)
Err sorry - where was I ? oh yeah..
...Oooopppsss... I lost this one!
colkai... providing the link? ;)
Or is it and update to Aura users?

Bye.

colkai
12-24-2003, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by badllarma
Last time I was on it I think we clocked 138 mph
andy
Hah! - Ya boo sucks, my little baby, (you've seen her as well :) ) can do that down the East Lancs road, oops ..sorry officer, no didn't mean that, really, 69mph officer, really.. :D

philip
12-24-2003, 02:58 AM
Glad your still with us philip...

yeah, well... I was starting off from a stop light and when I hit around 30 mph my rear wheel started spinning and tried to pass me on the left...

never try to get all them 150 horses on the road at 0°C and soaking wet streets. Don't ask what I was thinking opening the throttle like that. Maybe "hey cool, noone in front of me..."

Zach
12-24-2003, 03:32 AM
whoo hoo!

riki
12-24-2003, 03:38 AM
I'm really looking forward to 8, though don't mind waiting. In any case New Magic is closed til the 11th so I wasn't anticipating havinga copy before then.

retinajoy
12-24-2003, 04:36 AM
Thanks Chuck and Newtek for the LW8 update. Looking forward to the full feature list.;)

Merry Christmas to everyone on the forums and to Newtek!:D

-EsHrA-
12-24-2003, 06:59 AM
Thanx for the vids but i guess we've all seen it before, atleast the same stuff was done at Siggraph....so....nothing really new here..

anyways, happy holidays and a good Xmas, Chuck, Proton, NT, community (i luv yu).......and HowardM :) yes..ive read the cgtalk thread....and im too a bitt worried...


Cheers,

-EsH-

colkai
12-24-2003, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by philip
Don't ask what I was thinking opening the throttle like that. Maybe "hey cool, noone in front of me..."

Don't give me that "maybe" rubbish, you *know* it was :D

nerdyguy227
12-24-2003, 08:33 AM
I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but I am almost possitive it is off topic.

Anyway, some people are saying "we want what we payed for" You got everything you payed for! The upgrade to LW 8 was
free so you didn't pay for it. However it was promised in the deal, but you just din't get it YET. So don't go running arround crazy saying "We didn't get what we payed for!" It won't make it come out.

I can see there is a big argument about this so I am going to start a poll.

mrunion
12-24-2003, 08:57 AM
Thought I am not upset about anything, don't forget -- not EVERYONE got 8 for Free. Some had 7.5 and *paid* $500 for the upgrade to 8. We got DFX+ for free.

philip
12-24-2003, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by mrunion
Thought I am not upset about anything, don't forget -- not EVERYONE got 8 for Free. Some had 7.5 and *paid* $500 for the upgrade to 8. We got DFX+ for free.

same difference, innit?
I actually did pay for the upgrade to 8 (plus I forgot about my 50 NT bucks... doh), and I'm confident I will get everything I paid for. And more!


Don't give me that "maybe" rubbish, you *know* it was

I confess. :p

Jockomo
12-24-2003, 09:21 AM
Like many others, I am a little dissapointed that it is not released.
But I will be much much more dissapointed if LW8 is not a Maya killer.
Unfortunately after 10 years of LW experience this release will be do or die for me. The industry is just overwhelming turning to Maya at this point and it is becoming impossible for even a LW fanboy like myself to ignore it.
So really guys, take another month to get it right, hell take another 6 months to get it right. But please give us something that will blow this industry away and make companies turn to Lightwave. I really don't want to have to change horses at this point.

::goes back to learning 100,000 stupid icons::

aliens
12-24-2003, 10:29 AM
Thx Chuck for the info :) cool to have some news today, so,Santa will not been raped tonight :D hehe....

Just hope a solid 8, before or after Xmas doesn't matter....

Have a good break, merry Xmas to all wavers!!

Peace in 2004

irenderlw
12-24-2003, 11:13 AM
Chuck,

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to a stable 8.
Wishing you and your family, and all at Newtek a
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!:D

prospector
12-24-2003, 12:54 PM
NT Bucks are still valid??
Ding Dang it.

Gotta see if SafeHarbor will still accept them.
Didn't use it for the upgrade.:mad:

T-Light
12-24-2003, 12:55 PM
Thanks Chuck, much appreciated.

I bought the upgrade earlier in the year, and I think I said at the time, I was expecting to pay than I did, the fact that it came with DFX was a huge plus. If it takes a few more weeks of testing that's fine by me.

Thanks again

Merry Christmas to yourself and the Newtek team.

Have a good one guys. :)

CoryC
12-24-2003, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by philip
I crashed with my Yamaha R1 on sunday, *that* was a disappointment... one which will cost me $$$ and my bones are still hurting :p


Now why did you go and do that. I think I remember a conversation where I said I wouldn't get a bike because I know I wouldn't behave on it and you said you won't have a problem with that :p

Hope you didn't hurt yourself too bad. With LW8's hardbody dynamics maybe you can do a SLW tutorial on the R1 hitting the pavement?

Have a good holiday in any case.

faulknermano
12-24-2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by Jockomo

But I will be much much more dissapointed if LW8 is not a Maya killer.


i either want maya to be a more intutive modeller and have a simpler interface to mr, OR lw to have a system-wide change in its animating capabilities. that way we only have one solution to the problem that is CG. :D

themaxx
12-24-2003, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by philip
I crashed with my Yamaha R1 on sunday

oh man. sorry to hear that. hope the damage (to both man and machine) is minimal. happy holidays.

Vincent Brumbac
12-24-2003, 11:48 PM
Read some comments and thought I would post something. I upgraded from 5.6 to 7.5c with a free upgrade to 8 and got the DFX+ package free all for a low sum of $495. Now they want to delay the release so it can be bug free as possible? Are they crazy!?!? They want to give me a better product? I just won't stand for this! Please give me the bug infested version now so I can have something else to complain about.


Vincent D. Brumback

P.S. I'm joking of course. NewTek was too kind in their upgrade offer and I feel like a thief. I await eight. I want the late bug free version please.

mattbolton
12-25-2003, 01:45 AM
I'm with you on that note Vincent Brumback. Going from 5.6 to 8 with DFX+ thrown in is a deal I could not pass up. Even if I only ever got 7.5, I'd be content.

RebelHill
12-25-2003, 03:57 AM
Well I'm pleased to see the "where's my upgrade I was promised pre 2004" sentiment has not been crawling all over this thread.

To the guys at NT. I know a lot of users were expecting a pre 04 release, but I bet you guys there had your hearts set on pushing it out the door in time too. Tough break guys, I know how it feels to miss a self imposed deadline, but if you've done it to up your products reliability, we're behind you all the way.

Feliz Navidad a todos.

archiea
12-25-2003, 04:03 AM
uh-hum.....

"where's my upgrade I was promised pre 2004"

sentiment.

La cucharacha ya no puede caminar.

Original1
12-25-2003, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by Vincent Brumbac
Read some comments and thought I would post something. I upgraded from 5.6 to 7.5c with a free upgrade to 8 and got the DFX+ package free all for a low sum of $495. Now they want to delay the release so it can be bug free as possible? Are they crazy!?!? They want to give me a better product? I just won't stand for this! Please give me the bug infested version now so I can have something else to complain about.


Vincent D. Brumback

P.S. I'm joking of course. NewTek was too kind in their upgrade offer and I feel like a thief. I await eight. I want the late bug free version please.


I echo that sentiment in spades even though I only upgraded from 7.5 to get the DFX+ deal I'm still working out all the stuff I can do with DFX.

My Christmas wishes:

1) LW8 becomes a MAYA killer.

2) VT[3.1] handles HDTV without a hardware upgrade.

A fairy story?

;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

nerdyguy227
12-25-2003, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by badllarma
most fun you can have with your clothes on :D

:confused:

badllarma
12-25-2003, 07:57 AM
I'm not even going to start to explain this one looking at your signiture (E.G. age 12) :D :D

j3st3r
12-25-2003, 08:51 AM
Without reading the cgtalk thread, I have to say, that I`m very disappointed.

In business I cannot make my job late. If I do my job late, I have to give discounts. I don`t mean that I need discount from LW. But honestly, I didn`t use my Motiobuilder discount, because it was written that LW8 will be out in this year (fyi. Motionbuilder discount was off by 22nd of December). I`m glad that Newtek is for the rock-solid-integration of Lightwave, but face the fact, LW is gonna loose more and more markets...It`s technology is behind the others in most area...And the slip of this release doesn`t do good for LW. I can`t understand why LW was previewed on Siggraph, why some Newtek-representatives (Lee) suggested that it will be out in October or sooner, why it wasn`t seen in late november that it won`t be out in Decemeber.
Unless they made an extraordinary change meanwhile...

But I will surely roll on floor laughing, if they give the fancy 40 undos for transforms only....

But I`m optimist. I hope that the post-holiday status report will predict a very early realase date (let`s say mid-January?)

WilliamVaughan
12-25-2003, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by j3st3r


But I will surely roll on floor laughing, if they give the fancy 40 undos for transforms only....




not 40 undos...unlimited....so if 40 is "fancy" what fun name will you give unlimted :)

j3st3r
12-25-2003, 10:22 AM
Hello Proton!

Unlimited? Good news! Is there any for Surface Editor? If not, I would give him a Prancing title...:)

nerdyguy227
12-25-2003, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by proton
not 40 undos...unlimited....so if 40 is "fancy" what fun name will you give unlimted :)

COOL!!!

I like undos and redos.

j3st3r
12-25-2003, 12:59 PM
Since it looks that features are changing I`m curiuous about a full detailed feature list of Layout and Modeler as well.

Tesselator
12-25-2003, 04:35 PM
Hey Vaughan,
Thanks for the neat new goodies! Very cool! Don't worry
too much about missing the release date estimation.
Forbs put it at 53% miss if I recall so I was more than half
expecting it myself. It's a pretty common thing. No worries.

I feel a bit sorry for you folks there at NT tho with idiots
like H... spouting off over in CGTalk about which they know
nothing at all and using thier newsgroup persuation skills
to form a band of ignorants and have themselves a bash
session as if they're doing a good thing or participating in
a democratic stand of free speech. LOL. Users like this that
have educated themselves in how to "sound" as if they know
something about LW and the CG/FX industry when in reality
have difficulties using simple conventions and presets created
by other people are an unfortunate product of the times if not
just a little difficult to deal with at times. I hope you and the
staffers there at NT know that some (most?) of us are not
so simple minded. We know missing an estimate has little or
no negitive connotation. Perhapps even a positive statement
for a dev team willing to forego a little crowd pleasing for a
properly packaged and assempled product. We're behind you
guys all the way! With out you people we wouldn't be here and
you're all verry apreciated! I'm eagerly (but patiently and adultly)
awaiting the arrival of L8.... I'm already in for 60 educational
seats (JP) on the budgeting just based on Siggraph! :D

Merry Christmass, Happy Hollidays!!!
We're with ya!

--
That UI is looking pretty sweet! And I hear very good ah-hem,
"realtime" news in the dark corners near those who be knowing
things. SW - Shine On Me! :D

HowardM
12-25-2003, 04:47 PM
Hey Tess, glad you could make it!
:rolleyes:

Thanks for belittling me and trying to be the big man!
Anyway, you know I may be right, you know people agree, and youre scared like the rest.
Stop being an asss kissing fanboy and be an adult.

Tesselator
12-25-2003, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by HowardM
Hey Tess, glad you could make it!
:rolleyes:

Thanks for belittling me and trying to be the big man!
Anyway, you know I may be right,.....

Nope! But I do know something about you. And it's not
publically postable! So lets drop it. BYE!

pblacklock
12-25-2003, 05:28 PM
Anyway, you know I may be right, you know people agree, and youre scared like the rest.

hey howard m,

remove my name from your petition to save your dog.

And no we are not scared. i think it's great that newtek takes its time to fix all the potential bugs before releasing software unlike microsoft where people pay good money for it and still have to dl new patches every other week.

Paul

-EsHrA-
12-25-2003, 05:38 PM
patches every other week is not a bad thing... :rolleyes:

nerdyguy227
12-25-2003, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by pblacklock
unlike microsoft where people pay good money for it and still have to dl new patches every other week.

WilliamVaughan
12-25-2003, 08:18 PM
Unfortunately I'm going to close this thread since some members of this forum always take things off topic and choose to handle themselves unprofessionally.