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Mats Andersen
01-12-2018, 01:35 PM
Hi all

I am new to the forum allthough I've been using LW since v 5.5 for professional work..:D

I have to say thanks to the team for a new version and there is certainly lots of new good upgrades to be enthusiastic about. I have always loved the software because of its agility and speed despite its lackings in some respects(displacemt maps, sss integration and volumetric speed and easy of use). Now I need some assurance that this is still the best software..
It seems more sluggish and inconvenient with much more settings, giving more control of course, but with that complexity comes new challenges. Look at 3dsmax - very sluggish and inconvenient...
After days of testing it seems that I cant get the materials to work like I want. I know its a matter of learning it all over again but I need some help obviously ...


If it is physically correct or not have never interested me that much, I have been more fascinated by the ability to create what I want according to my own eye quickly and rather live the fact that a need to redo some materials to suit various scenes. I suspect this is something that needes to be done anyway..
A new thinking needs to be learned and reflexes developed after decades of use needs resetting unfortunately - and at the same time new restrictions seem to have occured.

Seen some videos where the materials are explained using organic objects (buddah). Harder to achieve good results with geometrical objects and architectiure for instance. Here there can be long faces where gradients are very useful to control on reflection for example. but not easy now.:eek:



Perhaps someone can help me understand some things that puzzles me. Or maybe some useful links? pretty sure most of them are no brainers for you guys spending some more time with the software. :boogiedow

- The relationship between specular and metallic? THis is unlcear to me. Should these never bee used at the same time perhaps?I often run into materials becoming too reflective using the specular parameter. If I wasnt only a very slight reflection the only way I have found is to crank roughness to max but then it takes ages get noise free and still it appear too reflective. In the std material I would just play with the gradient/incidence on reflection and easily get the result i have in my mind.

- node editor .how to use for example 5 different textures assigned 1 material parameter, say bump, without using the whole screen full of nodes and interactions? this was easy in layered old style texture panel.
- Caustics control? intensity and accuracy- its seems globally controlled, but hard to play around like we could before with accuracy and intensity to achieve specific effects. becomes very noisy now and slow if noise should be eliminated?
- Can the fresnel gradient be tweaked? I know it has a built in curve but I miss the ability to adjust this. It seems to me that it is too linear..? in certain scenes you want this to appear certain ways and then it doesnt help if its physically correct..
- As beeing lead into the world of nodes more than before I miss more fractal nodes(more animated 3d textures for example) smoky, turbulence.
Hypervoxels used to have "turbulent displace" "billowing" "expand and dissolve" and these sort of animated 3d inputs that I havent found now. Miss those. Or where to find? :-)
- crashes when applying particle emitter to null object.. is there a new way to add emitters?
- Enviroment lights seems to be popular , but is it just me or is it either noisy or slow?
- HDRI usage is nice in principle but how real? depends on the quality of HDRI and there seems to be various types around.

I so much want to learn the new version, but learning curve is surprisngly steep. Comparing rendering times to the ones of 2015 it seems a good bit slower, forcing me to do animations in 2015 at least with the current knowledge that I have.

Hopefully someone can bring my worries to a stop! :-)
thanks
best regards

Mats

RebelHill
01-12-2018, 01:41 PM
Start with this...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTds3QePYrWFKQSaSWGMnKF7-4W84I5Tz

and this...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1C4072533A16B807

UnCommonGrafx
01-12-2018, 02:00 PM
Welcome, Mats!
There is a lot to learn. It's a quick learn if you know where to go and have the time to learn it. The above ought to get most of your list taken care of.

The new renderer is a lot more fun because it gets you there faster. Learn what it does and be careful of comparing 2015 to 2018: learn what 2018 does in that area - the things missing have now made it a faster system. It is dog slow if you try to make it act like 2015.
Turn an environment light's samples up to 256 and that camera setting of 1 actually works! That's a big learn: samples elsewhere go up before the camera.

Enjoy!
Robert

Mats Andersen
01-17-2018, 02:40 AM
THe videos, have cast lights on lots of things, thanks:-)

I have renewed motivation!

:-)

Mats

rustythe1
01-17-2018, 03:11 AM
- node editor .how to use for example 5 different textures assigned 1 material parameter, say bump, without using the whole screen full of nodes and interactions? this was easy in layered old style texture panel.


there is actually several ways to do this, but the easiest way for "you" would be to go to the layers section of the nodes and the colour, bump and scale nodes there all have the same interface as the old Lightwave texture window so you can layer as you used to, in fact several of the DP textures that now do not work in the normal 2018 environment do actually still work here too as far as i am aware.

prometheus
01-17-2018, 01:08 PM
Hi all

I am new to the forum allthough I've been using LW since v 5.5 for professional work..:D

I have to say thanks to the team for a new version and there is certainly lots of new good upgrades to be enthusiastic about. I have always loved the software because of its agility and speed despite its lackings in some respects(displacemt maps, sss integration and volumetric speed and easy of use). Now I need some assurance that this is still the best software..
It seems more sluggish and inconvenient with much more settings, giving more control of course, but with that complexity comes new challenges. Look at 3dsmax - very sluggish and inconvenient...
After days of testing it seems that I cant get the materials to work like I want. I know its a matter of learning it all over again but I need some help obviously ...


If it is physically correct or not have never interested me that much, I have been more fascinated by the ability to create what I want according to my own eye quickly and rather live the fact that a need to redo some materials to suit various scenes. I suspect this is something that needes to be done anyway..
A new thinking needs to be learned and reflexes developed after decades of use needs resetting unfortunately - and at the same time new restrictions seem to have occured.

Seen some videos where the materials are explained using organic objects (buddah). Harder to achieve good results with geometrical objects and architectiure for instance. Here there can be long faces where gradients are very useful to control on reflection for example. but not easy now.:eek:



Perhaps someone can help me understand some things that puzzles me. Or maybe some useful links? pretty sure most of them are no brainers for you guys spending some more time with the software. :boogiedow

- The relationship between specular and metallic? THis is unlcear to me. Should these never bee used at the same time perhaps?I often run into materials becoming too reflective using the specular parameter. If I wasnt only a very slight reflection the only way I have found is to crank roughness to max but then it takes ages get noise free and still it appear too reflective. In the std material I would just play with the gradient/incidence on reflection and easily get the result i have in my mind.

- node editor .how to use for example 5 different textures assigned 1 material parameter, say bump, without using the whole screen full of nodes and interactions? this was easy in layered old style texture panel.
- Caustics control? intensity and accuracy- its seems globally controlled, but hard to play around like we could before with accuracy and intensity to achieve specific effects. becomes very noisy now and slow if noise should be eliminated?
- Can the fresnel gradient be tweaked? I know it has a built in curve but I miss the ability to adjust this. It seems to me that it is too linear..? in certain scenes you want this to appear certain ways and then it doesnt help if its physically correct..
- As beeing lead into the world of nodes more than before I miss more fractal nodes(more animated 3d textures for example) smoky, turbulence.
Hypervoxels used to have "turbulent displace" "billowing" "expand and dissolve" and these sort of animated 3d inputs that I havent found now. Miss those. Or where to find? :-)
- crashes when applying particle emitter to null object.. is there a new way to add emitters?
- Enviroment lights seems to be popular , but is it just me or is it either noisy or slow?
- HDRI usage is nice in principle but how real? depends on the quality of HDRI and there seems to be various types around.

I so much want to learn the new version, but learning curve is surprisngly steep. Comparing rendering times to the ones of 2015 it seems a good bit slower, forcing me to do animations in 2015 at least with the current knowledge that I have.

Hopefully someone can bring my worries to a stop! :-)
thanks
best regards

Mats

Regarding the hypertexture effect and speed the old legacy hvīs used to have, no..there are no such features in the new volumetric system, you need to to a bit more work unfortunately to reference nulls etc..
https://docs.lightwave3d.com/display/LW2018/Example+-+Volumetric+Primitive+Emitter

not sure if they can implement their own effect as the old legacy has, a bit more coding resource time perhaps, or if they left that out because of a better way would be to reference something?

I also had a crash when adding a particle emitter to a null, but I think not directly..but when I raised particles, havenīt checked the update release with that though.

AS for old textures and old hypervoxels..the old hypervoxel system is still there if you add it from the image processing tab as old legacy volumetrics, and at the same time activate use legacy volumetrics in the volumetric fog tab. and to note, the old hypervoxels system is much Faster than in 2015, meaning it can use several nulls with hvīs overlapping without halting the system, and also flying trhough them without the same lag as in 2015, in fact, if set right the old legacy hypervoxels 2018 can be Way faster then the new Volumetric system...but that requires turning of volume shadows in VPR and turn of texture shadows in the hv tab, itīs so fast that it (almost..not quite) can compete with baked hvīs.
The new volumetrics system doesnīt disregard true shadows like that, so it will be slower..but more realistic.

As for various textures, you can acess them in node editors if you add a color layer node, enter it, and you are back to old layering ways of textures, where you can get gardner clouds, smokey etc.
The new system of volumetrics is in my perspective..more difficult to work with in some areas and set up, yields, better softer look of edges and more physicly correct shading in clouds, sometimes faster ..sometimes slower depending on how you set things up, workflow wise, i am not fond of how you access the new volumetric system and edit them, cause you Have to select the volume item in order to edit them, and you can not select any other item and move around and keeping the volumetric settings open ..Unlike that is how you could do it with old hypervoxels.
So I am hoping they can adress the UI workflow for the new volumetrics, itīs already harder to access textures than with hypervoxels etc.

There is however many advantages in realism with the new volumetrics..so both good and bad so far.
A note to be aware of, as I understand it, the new volumetrics isnīt working with points, only nulls and particles..so using a sprayed or geometry filled with fill solid points, or sculpted point clusters, will not work...hope they adress that soon.

Mats Andersen
01-17-2018, 03:54 PM
there is actually several ways to do this, but the easiest way for "you" would be to go to the layers section of the nodes and the colour, bump and scale nodes there all have the same interface as the old Lightwave texture window so you can layer as you used to, in fact several of the DP textures that now do not work in the normal 2018 environment do actually still work here too as far as i am aware.

Oyeah that layer nodes did it for me! havent used that before.. thanks so much.


also thanks for the notes on volumetrics.. will try the old HV and check it. !

Mats

js33
01-17-2018, 04:17 PM
Start with this...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTds3QePYrWFKQSaSWGMnKF7-4W84I5Tz

and this...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1C4072533A16B807

Are your node videos still relevant for 2018? Has anything changed in 2018 nodes from previous versions of Lightwave other than the addition of the PBR stuff? I've used LW a long time but never really used nodes much if at all but am interested in learning about them now.

hypersuperduper
01-17-2018, 05:00 PM
Quite a Lot of new nodes actually. There is a lot to explore. I have been toying with nodal motion and edges there are quite a lot of new toys to play with.

js33
01-17-2018, 07:21 PM
OK cool so RH's Node videos are still relevant they just won't contain the new stuff unless he made some new nodes videos. Maybe he has I will have to look.

Qexit
01-18-2018, 04:09 AM
OK cool so RH's Node videos are still relevant they just won't contain the new stuff unless he made some new nodes videos. Maybe he has I will have to look.The videos are still relevant with regard to how nodes work. Watching the videos will give you an understanding of the thinking that goes into using them. However, they were created using LW 11 along with some third party plugins in the project tutorials, i.e. IFW2, a couple of TrueArt plugins, DPKit Nodes and Poms Nodes, so unless you have all of those available you can't work through the projects without being a little creative with what you might have available. But part of the aim of the tutorials is to make you think about how things are done, so that might not be such a bad thing.

RebelHill
01-18-2018, 09:40 AM
Yep... the main cut and thrust of the node videos is the nodal system itself, its workflow, and how to think in a nodal way, and none of that has changed in LW. New nodes have been added to LW since they were recorded, others altered, but the underlying system is still the same. Main thing that's really become obsolete with 2018 is the few vids on material nodes in there, but that's only a very small part of the whole thing.

js33
01-18-2018, 04:24 PM
OK cool. I am going through your Nodes and Surfacing videos on YouTube now. When you open it up for the rest of us I will be purchasing them.

Thanks.

RebelHill
01-18-2018, 04:51 PM
The nodes stuff is available now (has been for a few years)... its the 2018 stuff thats yet to come.

js33
01-18-2018, 08:12 PM
Yeah I was thinking of the 2018 stuff and your surfacing series.