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marchermitte
01-08-2018, 10:42 AM
Hello
I'm running many tests about the new render engine, nice one but... what if we want the speed and performance of the 2015 (and before) edition?
Background radiosity and final gather are gone... why?
I did a simple city test with many 4000 building instances and some fog. LW: 2015 (both background and final gather radiosity) : 8.5 seconds
LW 2018: 17 minutes
Now I get It, we can't compare apples and oranges. Nevertheless I'd prefer to have the choice to work on the traditional shading model surfaces with a background or final gather GI solution and get a reasonable render speed than waiting 17 minutes per frame which forbids me to render a whole animation but would be good for stills.
So my question (or request) is: would It be possible to get back the background only and final gather GI?
Or are there some settings that would mimic the background only GI model?

thank you

kolby
01-08-2018, 11:19 AM
I think you could use new Environment light instead of background only GI.

marchermitte
01-08-2018, 12:28 PM
I did, backdrop texture doesn't work any more with GI now. But even environment light takes much longer to render, even with (old) standard materials.

kolby
01-08-2018, 01:00 PM
Do you mean backdrop environment texture ? It works. You need to have Glossy Reflection enabled in Shading model for every material. If you loaded scene and models from previous version this option is disabled.

wingzeta
01-08-2018, 01:42 PM
I did, backdrop texture doesn't work any more with GI now. But even environment light takes much longer to render, even with (old) standard materials.

I've read elsewhere that you don't actually want to use the standard materials with the new system. They are basically there so you can import old models, and then rebuild your surfaces with one of the new materials. It doesn't take long, since your maps are right there to be plugged into the PBSDF node.

UnCommonGrafx
01-08-2018, 02:28 PM
Based on your question, I think the answer is: use 2015 for those renders.

This is all going to take a re-think on this. The new renderer isn't the old one. Use the old one if you want it to be like... the old one.

LW2018's renderer is more like Octane or Arnold now. Lots and LOTS of dials and do-hickeys to tweak to the end of time.
But, once learned, it becomes so fast, the amazement comes back.


People are doing simple tests. This engine isn't about simplicity. The harder you ask it to work, the faster it seems; the less you ask it to do, the more it looks like it is dog tired.

Share a scene you'd like optimized. Let others take a stab at it then learn from them. As well, check out the manual on noise workflow: a great chapter in a nicely comprehensive manual.

There's a lot to learn. The clearest is: this ain't the same renderer.
Robert

gar26lw
01-08-2018, 02:32 PM
Do you mean backdrop environment texture ? It works. You need to have Glossy Reflection enabled in Shading model for every material. If you loaded scene and models from previous version this option is disabled.

glossy material setting could do with a global override flag in render settings.

marchermitte
01-08-2018, 05:09 PM
Do you mean backdrop environment texture ? It works. You need to have Glossy Reflection enabled in Shading model for every material. If you loaded scene and models from previous version this option is disabled.
You mean that GI won't see the backdrop texture environment unless you activate glossy reflection (Specular?) for all the surface?
But then, does the GI see the backdrop or just the reflection of the material? I'm confused.
I know this is not the same render engine, I do use LW 2015 to produce animation and even well optimized, a 17 minutes for a small res frame in 2018 isn't going to compete with LW 2015 8.5 sec.
I just wish I could use both PBR and classical render engine depending from the situations.
I do own and use Octane and It's damn fast, especially when using the direct lighting / ambient occlusion kernel, which I know, isn't physically correct but gives me fast and clean results. Path tracing will come fast as well with brigade, I hope It will be integrated soon.
I guess I like to have options.
This being said I love Lightwave and the new edition rocks.

UnCommonGrafx
01-08-2018, 08:03 PM
Environment light and gi off would approximate that mode from octane, I believe.

Lots to learn.

VermilionCat
01-08-2018, 10:23 PM
Can anyone specifically describe what this Glossy Reflections does?

kolby
01-09-2018, 12:42 AM
You mean that GI won't see the backdrop texture environment unless you activate glossy reflection (Specular?) for all the surface? ...

Sorry! I misread your post. You of course do not need to enable glossy reflection to let GI see the backdrop texture. It is "Sample Backdrop" in global illumination.

VermilionCat
01-09-2018, 03:50 AM
Okay I find out. Glossy Reflections = Indirect Specularity

marchermitte
01-10-2018, 08:19 AM
Sorry! I misread your post. You of course do not need to enable glossy reflection to let GI see the backdrop texture. It is "Sample Backdrop" in global illumination.

Yeap, that's the one, not sure how I missed It.
Thank you!