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luzlight
01-01-2018, 05:12 PM
I thought It would be nice to have your examples as you play for the first time with the new version, for those who want to have a quick look at what's possible and may be for new comers lurking for the first time here.

The new render and materials are quite fun to play with. Despite an initial struggle with Ray Recusion values which I never messed with before I managed to bring this old model into LW2018 and render without much messing around with the render settings.

Lighted with a HDR image only.

Sure it can be improved, but been able to get this as the starting point is for me gratifying.

COBRASoft
01-01-2018, 07:50 PM
Some fun with dielectric...

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Kryslin
01-01-2018, 08:00 PM
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FiberFX insanity...
1 Insane character mesh...
2 Lights
5 layers of FiberFX fur and hair...
No nodes in FiberFX
Not knowing how to set up noise filtering...

And this is what I get in 6 minutes.

madno
01-02-2018, 01:19 AM
first one with brute force GI.
Seems so, caustics are usable.
Don't know how yet how to use noise reduction.

139050

vipvip242
01-02-2018, 02:19 AM
...rendered in less than 1min on intel 6900K (8-16cores/4ghz), with DOF and volumetric light, it is a VRP save downscaled from 4K res... of course, noise would be removed with reduction and/or more render time, but it isn't sowething disturbing on my side

madno
01-03-2018, 01:01 AM
Another one.
Can't get the fiber FX looking good - need to try more.

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50one
01-03-2018, 01:30 AM
Anything from content directory to wow the fence sitter?
Is there a micropoly displacement in 2018?

Asticles
01-03-2018, 01:43 AM
Any archviz?

jakuzaa
01-03-2018, 02:00 AM
I love the new render engine. Plant from evermotion, BSDF materials, some subsurface on the flowers. Still learning the render/GI settings, not happy with rendertimes but soo happy with the results :D

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djwaterman
01-03-2018, 02:46 AM
This is probably as good a thread as any to ask the question, what are people doing to combat chunky AA in bright highlights, for example with a HDR environment sun reflection, or reflection of a distant light/ Sunsky Sun etc? Just not covered in the help, so far my render tests are looking promising but the AA is awful, I don't want to mess around with settings if there is a simple workflow to combat this.

wingzeta
01-03-2018, 03:11 AM
This is probably as good a thread as any to ask the question, what are people doing to combat chunky AA in bright highlights, for example with a HDR environment sun reflection, or reflection of a distant light/ Sunsky Sun etc? Just not covered in the help, so far my render tests are looking promising but the AA is awful, I don't want to mess around with settings if there is a simple workflow to combat this.

This might shed some light, but maybe not solve the problem. Check out this RH video at about 10:20.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5wC8xRrDBA

Vladimir545
01-03-2018, 03:36 AM
I love the new render engine. Plant from evermotion, BSDF materials, some subsurface on the flowers. Still learning the render/GI settings, not happy with rendertimes but soo happy with the results :D

139100

Hello, can share scene? this not commercial work? -let try to reduce time-intresting see options. 16 min on bruteforce with this resolution-not many even depends on no so good hardware. what a Hardware?

THIBAULT
01-03-2018, 03:40 AM
I love the new render engine. Plant from evermotion, BSDF materials, some subsurface on the flowers. Still learning the render/GI settings, not happy with rendertimes but soo happy with the results :D

139100

Yes, same here ! Happy with the result but afraid with rendertimes ! Not sure we use it in architectural production ! And sure we don't use it with interior rendering, so long ! Waiting for Octane denoising !

OFF
01-03-2018, 03:46 AM
Waiting for Octane denoising ! -Yep and Kray 3 for LW2018.

Vladimir545
01-03-2018, 03:49 AM
Yes, same here ! Happy with the result but afraid with rendertimes ! Not sure we use it in architectural production ! And sure we don't use it with interior rendering, so long ! Waiting for Octane denoising !


Simple raytrace,or With Interpolated gi- very fast-like mental ray. No all case need use Montecarlo with bsdf surface. But anyway lights like area and enviroment sampling for bruteforce- droped speed more than surface shading for me. Octane faster of corse because render on gpu.

djwaterman
01-03-2018, 03:57 AM
Thank for linking to the RH video, I've just discovered that the lights have values measured in Lumens, thanks I guess, although it's not super intuitive. This from the manual.

{Loading a scene from a previous version of LightWave will automatically convert scene lights to the correct values, but if you need to manually convert a 100 % light from the old percentage scale to Lux you can do so according to the following rules:

Area * 3.14
Distant * 3.14
Dome * 1.57 (converted to Distant light with the appropriate angle)
Linear * 3.14
NGon * 3.14
Photometric no changes, but see note
Point * 3.14
Spherical * 6.28
Spotlight * 3.14
3rd party lights * 3.14}

So 100% is 3.14. I'm not very mathematically oriented so that's gonna be odd for me, what would 50% percent be? Anyway, they broke the egg to make an omelet.

gar26lw
01-03-2018, 04:27 AM
Thank for linking to the RH video, I've just discovered that the lights have values measured in Lumens, thanks I guess, although it's not super intuitive. This from the manual.

{Loading a scene from a previous version of LightWave will automatically convert scene lights to the correct values, but if you need to manually convert a 100 % light from the old percentage scale to Lux you can do so according to the following rules:

Area * 3.14
Distant * 3.14
Dome * 1.57 (converted to Distant light with the appropriate angle)
Linear * 3.14
NGon * 3.14
Photometric no changes, but see note
Point * 3.14
Spherical * 6.28
Spotlight * 3.14
3rd party lights * 3.14}

So 100% is 3.14. I'm not very mathematically oriented so that's gonna be odd for me, what would 50% percent be? Anyway, they broke the egg to make an omelet.

worth adding to the docs. can users add comments in the confluence pages?

tyrot
01-03-2018, 04:47 AM
Yes, same here ! Happy with the result but afraid with rendertimes ! Not sure we use it in architectural production ! And sure we don't use it with interior rendering, so long ! Waiting for Octane denoising !

totally agree. I was hoping after years of octane rendering i may return native rendering.. But no . oh no no no .. .. it is so slow ... so noisy ... Once denoiser released for Octane .. we are saved completely.

50one
01-03-2018, 04:56 AM
-Yep and Kray 3 for LW2018.

Yep, Kray3 is just around the corner....since 2014 at least.

djwaterman
01-03-2018, 05:47 AM
Well yeah, there are other faster renderers, but let's keep the focus on how to use this one. I've been experimenting with the environment light, which is an image based lighting source, it will give you shadows calculated on the environment light source, which we never really had before. The only weird thing is, all my HDR images that work fine elsewhere over-blow the kurcheezus out of my renders, the only ones that don't exhibit this are the one I find in the 2018 content folder, which are EXR files, I don't really see the difference between my other HDRs and the LW EXR files, at least to look at, all my settings remain the same but the difference in renders is that I can't get anything acceptable with the HDR's. What's the special secret with the ones in the content folder, provided by Illuminated Tools.

Edit, there is the following in the help, may account for the blow-out, although doesn't account for the fact the Illuminated Tools EXRs don't blow out the scene.

In Use
The Environment light affects the Diffuse and Specular environment of your scene. There are some rules to follow to get the best from it without blowing out renders.

If the Environment light contributes to the background radiosity by using the Affect Diffuse setting in the Light Properties panel, then uncheck Sample Backdrop in your Brute Force radiosity settings. If you'd rather use radiosity for your environment, uncheck Affect Diffuse in the Environment light setting.
Likewise, if the Environment light contributes to Specularity, you must go to the Shading Model for the surface settings for your objects, and switch from the default Raytrace + Backdrop to Raytrace.
Incorrect usage of the light will result in a doubled contribution to your renders' Diffuse and/or Specular buffers. This will mean renders that are too bright overall.

Ztreem
01-03-2018, 05:48 AM
totally agree. I was hoping after years of octane rendering i may return native rendering.. But no . oh no no no .. .. it is so slow ... so noisy ... Once denoiser released for Octane .. we are saved completely.

How do you compare the two? Do you compare gpu & cpu that are equal in performance or do you compare apples and oranges? Would be nice to see a comparison that is between cpu & gpu that have the same performance and then see how fast octane really is. I don’t really think Octane is that much faster if you would do a fair comparison. You could also compare the two like this: take a computer with 4 xeon 16 core processors against a nvidia gts250 or equal and see what result you get? :D

safarifx
01-03-2018, 05:51 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQPNkra4R9Y

snip safx

OFF
01-03-2018, 05:54 AM
Yep, Kray3 is just around the corner....since 2014 at least.

For today released К3 RC3.
So although the speed of development of K3 can not be called rapid - it is quite comparable with the speed of implementation of LW 2018.
Especially considering the fact that one person works on the development of Kray.

djwaterman
01-03-2018, 06:00 AM
I gotta say it's all starting to get a little clunky with the different switches you have to be aware of in different places, I'd like to see some competent work-flow instructions for best results provided by Newtek at some point, otherwise it starts to look like a dark art, which is not what a PBR rendering set up should be, should be simple for idiots (gamers and such). Pretend I put some sort of emoji on that to diffuse any offence taken.

tyrot
01-03-2018, 06:12 AM
How do you compare the two? Do you compare gpu & cpu that are equal in performance or do you compare apples and oranges? Would be nice to see a comparison that is between cpu & gpu that have the same performance and then see how fast octane really is. I don’t really think Octane is that much faster if you would do a fair comparison. You could also compare the two like this: take a computer with 4 xeon 16 core processors against a nvidia gts250 or equal and see what result you get? :D

ok buy yourself a cheap second hand 780 GTX ... render any scene ... just compare the quality yourself . my point even a cheap second hand GPU can save your business with fraction of cost of a crazy CPU system.

Sekhar
01-03-2018, 06:57 AM
This is probably as good a thread as any to ask the question, what are people doing to combat chunky AA in bright highlights, for example with a HDR environment sun reflection, or reflection of a distant light/ Sunsky Sun etc? Just not covered in the help, so far my render tests are looking promising but the AA is awful, I don't want to mess around with settings if there is a simple workflow to combat this.

Someone else also mentioned aliasing in highlight areas - would you mind posting a scene that shows this? I'm not seeing any aliasing artifacts in the few tests I did, so not sure what you folks are talking about.

Snosrap
01-03-2018, 07:00 AM
One of my first renders.
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MichaelT
01-03-2018, 07:12 AM
Nice though with the musical symbol :) (standing turn symbol for those who don't see it.) But maybe that is just a funny accident? Looks good though.

From another thread, but I had a bit of fun with volumes:

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Vladimir545
01-03-2018, 07:18 AM
One of my first renders.
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render time/hardware? what settings used?

Snosrap
01-03-2018, 07:34 AM
render time/hardware? what settings used?
4 minutes using an old i7 920 2.67GHZ - Settings were basically what you get when you clear a scene with the exception that I changed the "angle" of the distant light from 0 degrees to 35 and I changed the camera to 1000 x 1000 and turned the minimum samples to 4. I did get some white "speckles" on the wood around the statuette, but I removed those with PS.
Speckles, noise and AA have been a concern for me and hopefully the cause and fix can be figured out.

MichaelT
01-03-2018, 08:32 AM
4 minutes using an old i7 920 2.67GHZ - Settings were basically what you get when you clear a scene with the exception that I changed the "angle" of the distant light from 0 degrees to 35 and I changed the camera to 1000 x 1000 and turned the minimum samples to 4. I did get some white "speckles" on the wood around the statuette, but I removed those with PS.
Speckles, noise and AA have been a concern for me and hopefully the cause and fix can be figured out.

Those speckles are called fireflies. It is an artifact when you get a sample ray with extremely high intensity. You can use clamp in the render settings to limit the effects. The downside to that is that you may lower the overall intensity of the scene as a whole (like putting a dampening effect on it) So sometimes it is better to choose a higher limit, and then fix the image in post. Like in PS or AE for instance. But it is a problem with PBR rendering in general unfortunately.

I am thinking of making a tutorial to help people out on how to deal with it. But maybe Craig is already working on that? :)

Vladimir545
01-03-2018, 08:45 AM
4 minutes using an old i7 920 2.67GHZ - Settings were basically what you get when you clear a scene with the exception that I changed the "angle" of the distant light from 0 degrees to 35 and I changed the camera to 1000 x 1000 and turned the minimum samples to 4. I did get some white "speckles" on the wood around the statuette, but I removed those with PS.
Speckles, noise and AA have been a concern for me and hopefully the cause and fix can be figured out.

impressive time with min 4 samples+ bruteforce- on no so modern hardware with 1000*1000 res.- well done. and thx for info.

Asticles
01-03-2018, 10:08 AM
Those speckles are called fireflies. It is an artifact when you get a sample ray with extremely high intensity. You can use clamp in the render settings to limit the effects. The downside to that is that you may lower the overall intensity of the scene as a whole (like putting a dampening effect on it) So sometimes it is better to choose a higher limit, and then fix the image in post. Like in PS or AE for instance. But it is a problem with PBR rendering in general unfortunately.

I am thinking of making a tutorial to help people out on how to deal with it. But maybe Craig is already working on that? :)

It would be good to have separated clamping for direct and indirect rays.

Photogram
01-03-2018, 10:12 AM
I love the new render engine. Plant from evermotion, BSDF materials, some subsurface on the flowers. Still learning the render/GI settings, not happy with rendertimes but soo happy with the results :D

139100

Wow !

Photogram
01-03-2018, 10:21 AM
Here are my first final renders of 2018!

This is a conversion from LW11. I had no problems converting the materials because i was using material nodes in LW11

All the project was done using Delta node, Dilectric and Conductor.

I had add one environement light to get rid of the noise and fine tune the only light for this project.
The majority of the lighting was done using gemometry with luminosity so i converted them from standard to Principle shader.

This is straight out of LW2018 no photoshop! 45 min to 1:15 min per frames (1864X2400 pixels)

I wait for your comments:)

Cheers the new Renderer is just fantastic!1391161391171391181391191391201391211391 22

Photogram
01-03-2018, 10:28 AM
Theses are the images done in LW11 back in year 2014

At this time i was trying to match the render of this watch done in VRay.

I was very close but i took me more than 50 hours of tweaking....

Now with 2018 that is reduced a lot to about 6 hours...

The renders in 2014 took about 2 hours and now with 2018 this is reduce to about an hour per frames in high resolution.

139123139124139125139126139127

jakuzaa
01-03-2018, 12:18 PM
The renders in 2014 took about 2 hours and now with 2018 this is reduce to about an hour per frames in high resolution.

139123139124139125139126139127

Very nice renders. I know it is a product shot so everything has to be sharp but could you add some DOF (just for fun)?

On my part, quick (only a couple hours of tweaking :D ) interior test render. White walls and no splotches, no colour bleeding, extremly happy overall.

BeeVee
01-03-2018, 12:47 PM
For people converting from old to new textures, try *just* using PBSDF. It should be able to handle any kind of surface by itself, much like when we could only use LightWave's Surface Editor, pre-Node days, but this time all completely reciprocal (well, mostly).

B

Photogram
01-03-2018, 12:59 PM
Very nice renders. I know it is a product shot so everything has to be sharp but could you add some DOF (just for fun)?

On my part, quick (only a couple hours of tweaking :D ) interior test render. White walls and no splotches, no colour bleeding, extremly happy overall.

Very clean arch viz!
Yay no splotche anymore! it is brute force renders or interpolated?
Thanks for the comments i have planned to do another render with DOF. I will post them when done :)

jakuzaa
01-03-2018, 01:05 PM
Very clean arch viz!
Yay no splotche anymore! it is brute force renders or interpolated?

It is interpolated with "Interpolation Softness" set to 100%. Area Lights with portal option in windows and Direct for the sun.

Photogram
01-03-2018, 01:24 PM
It is interpolated with "Interpolation Softness" set to 100%. Area Lights with portal option in windows and Direct for the sun.

OMG it is better than the old renderer!

Yay!

Snosrap
01-03-2018, 02:04 PM
Here are my first final renders of 2018!

This is a conversion from LW11. I had no problems converting the materials because i was using material nodes in LW11

All the project was done using Delta node, Dilectric and Conductor.

I had add one environement light to get rid of the noise and fine tune the only light for this project.
The majority of the lighting was done using gemometry with luminosity so i converted them from standard to Principle shader.

This is straight out of LW2018 no photoshop! 45 min to 1:15 min per frames (1864X2400 pixels)

I wait for your comments:)

Cheers the new Renderer is just fantastic


Is there an unknown artifact? See image.
139137

Photogram
01-03-2018, 02:43 PM
Is there an unknown artifact? See image.
139137

Yes i know my model have many bad polygon because that is a converted model from solidwork. The converted model has so many triangulated polygons... It's a lot of work cleaning all theses polygons. I maybe need to remodel or retopology the watch but didn't had enough time for this..
My solution was to reduced the smooting angle to the minimum but some polygons still appear wrong in the renders so i just decided it will be faster to just do Photoshop retouch after the render.
Theses LW2018 render where not retouched in photoshop so there are many of these bad polygons in my renders.

Asticles
01-03-2018, 02:56 PM
Very nice renders. I know it is a product shot so everything has to be sharp but could you add some DOF (just for fun)?

On my part, quick (only a couple hours of tweaking :D ) interior test render. White walls and no splotches, no colour bleeding, extremly happy overall.

Thanks for your test. Why 100% and not 50%? It seems that chairs have lost the contact shadow. Maybe some ambient oclussion multiplying in the ceiling and floor...

Regards

Photogram
01-03-2018, 02:57 PM
Here are the bad polygons.

I didn't find a tool or a trick to repair that rapidly..

I notice that with the new opengl and renderer theses polygons are more visible than in the past.
With the old renderer i was able to hide these polygons simply by reducing the smooting angle but it seems something has changed and i think the future models will need to be modeled with more attention.


139140139139

Asticles
01-03-2018, 03:02 PM
Try merge triangles function. Don't remember the exact name.

bazsa73
01-03-2018, 03:16 PM
Hi everyone,
I really wanted to see how FFX behaves and I'm mighty pleased with it.

1: It doesn't crash. I tweaked a lot with VPR on all the time, sometimesit's lagging but no crash.
2: I like the fur quality, it blends well with the rest of the scene unlike earlier when it looked like az an alien entity.
I forgot the render time but it was smg like 3-4 minutes on a 3 years old dual xeon 12 core setup.
http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139141&d=1515017362

Nicolas Jordan
01-03-2018, 03:20 PM
Very nice renders. I know it is a product shot so everything has to be sharp but could you add some DOF (just for fun)?

On my part, quick (only a couple hours of tweaking :D ) interior test render. White walls and no splotches, no colour bleeding, extremly happy overall.

Very nice! I can't wait until I'm done the current project I'm working on so I can do some tests like this.

bazsa73
01-03-2018, 03:50 PM
Another quick test, materials and textures made in texture painter. Still have to figure out some settings as I simply plugged textures into their respective slot
in the node editor. Have to figure out what are the best settings. Spec/Metallic confuses also as it should be either this or that imo. Whatever.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139144&d=1515019797

IanRT
01-03-2018, 06:45 PM
Lots of fireflies but will remove somehow.
Or maybe pretend they are stars !
Modeled in Rhino


139149

Snosrap
01-03-2018, 09:11 PM
Here are the bad polygons.

I didn't find a tool or a trick to repair that rapidly..

I notice that with the new opengl and renderer theses polygons are more visible than in the past.
With the old renderer i was able to hide these polygons simply by reducing the smooting angle but it seems something has changed and i think the future models will need to be modeled with more attention.


139140139139

Oh yeah - that won't cut it in a hi-res render. :)

wingzeta
01-04-2018, 01:25 AM
Just a tiling rust texture (PBSDF) on a car. Using only the Environment light with the background hdr. Default render settings except GI turned off. 1 min 39 sec. On my rusty old laptop.

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jakuzaa
01-04-2018, 01:49 AM
Thanks for your test. Why 100% and not 50%? It seems that chairs have lost the contact shadow. Maybe some ambient oclussion multiplying in the ceiling and floor...

Regards

You are right, I focused too much on the clean walls & ceiling. It is a shame that Interpolation Softness can't be set for each object, it is global only. 50% is a good compromise.

wingzeta
01-04-2018, 04:08 AM
A couple more of the rusty car. I'm liking 2018. The render is more realistic, with less effort, as it is meant to be. I can't wait to try some more things out (denoiser). A lot of tread left on those tires. I meant for them to be closer to bald, so they would match the car, but just kind of threw the texture together for the test.

139161139162

2create
01-04-2018, 05:12 AM
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4688/24627960637_87982e46ae_h.jpg

Testing out character textured in Substance Painter. Not having to worry about fresnel like effects sure makes for cleaner nodes :)

Asticles
01-04-2018, 09:07 AM
Great model, texturing and everything!

zapper1998
01-04-2018, 09:39 AM
This is a Brute of a model, 9 million poly's +

Manitowoc 31000 Crawler Crane, employs an innovative self-supporting counterweight. This feature, called the Variable Position Counterweight system, minimizes the crane's footprint and ground preparation.

Could not think of anything to toss into LW 2018, so I loaded this Model in, that I decided to do some more work on.


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Mike

Dan Ritchie
01-04-2018, 10:04 AM
This is as far as I've gotten, and even that, i am pleased about, how simple the principled shader is.

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hypersuperduper
01-04-2018, 01:52 PM
https://youtu.be/3JbZyA84n14
My first little test animation. No real plan just playing with stuff, and when I do that I just make silly monsters. From unadorned box in modeler to animated squishy dude. start to finish in lw2018. Some lazy compositing goofery in Aftereffects mostly to test render buffers. skin shader on monster (started with the hulk skin Preset and made some changes), and rubber Preset on the ground. Took way too long to render, but I'm still learning the ins and outs. deformation seems much faster and smoother now at least.

The rubber material is a noise magnet apparently. Samples out wazoo to get rid of noise.

Matt
01-04-2018, 02:20 PM
Just a quick note guys, if you do anything you think is Gallery worthy, submit it, there is now a LW 2018 tag.

https://www.lightwave3d.com/community/submit_gallery/

CaptainMarlowe
01-04-2018, 02:39 PM
FOr those getting fireflies with environment lights, this tutorial by Andrew Comb might come in handy :
https://youtu.be/72AAwSFx4nA

madno
01-04-2018, 08:51 PM
On my part, quick (only a couple hours of tweaking :D ) interior test render. White walls and no splotches, no colour bleeding, extremly happy overall.

May I ask about render time and settings?
Especially interested in the reflection on the floor.

Cageman
01-04-2018, 09:39 PM
Who is the real Buddha?

The statuettes or the one where you take control?

(Just having a bit of fun with simple content). :)

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jakuzaa
01-05-2018, 05:25 AM
May I ask about render time and settings?
Especially interested in the reflection on the floor.

Hi madno, you can check my settings below. Basically, the more smples the smoother reflections. I think AA is not that important as samples in the 2018 but still learning. The new renderer is great, as you can see it is just basic setting of the BSDF material and it takes care of the rest. The only downside is rendertime, it took 13 minutes on Threadripper 1950x.

Photogram
01-05-2018, 06:52 AM
New Render LW2018

Converted from LW2015

Environement Light has simply replaced 12 lights! and many hours tweaking them!

Render time 49 min (2548X6000) pixels

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sadkkf
01-05-2018, 09:33 AM
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4688/24627960637_87982e46ae_h.jpg

Testing out character textured in Substance Painter. Not having to worry about fresnel like effects sure makes for cleaner nodes :)

Very nice work. I'd love a closer look at your 2018 nodes. Are you just using exported maps from Painter and plugging them in somehow?

madno
01-06-2018, 12:11 AM
Thanks Jakuzaa.

JohnMarchant
01-06-2018, 03:11 AM
139217

Just a quick one 10 Mins Render time. Still getting my head around the new renderer and surfaces setup.

Asticles
01-06-2018, 04:03 AM
139217

Just a quick one 10 Mins Render time. Still getting my head around the new renderer and surfaces setup.

Do you use the same AA settings on the alpha pass? Check it please

JohnMarchant
01-06-2018, 04:08 AM
Do you use the same AA settings on the alpha pass? Check it please

Exactly my problem, the white edge on the model. Im still getting into 2018, how do i change that for only Alpha

gar26lw
01-06-2018, 06:48 AM
buffers

JohnMarchant
01-06-2018, 07:24 AM
buffers

Alpha is turned off in the buffers, only final render is on.

MichaelT
01-06-2018, 08:23 AM
I think he means you can use extra AA on that buffer. And that it would help smoothing out those edges at a smaller rendering time cost, than just adding samples, which would greatly increase render time. Like using the noise tool for that buffer (as an example) ... its all new to all of us :)

JohnMarchant
01-06-2018, 09:00 AM
Yes its taking some getting used to, not least of all finding where they have put it. Cant help but think i am making more clicks to achieve the result in 2018 that i used to achieve with less clicks in 2015. They separated Camera Properties off from the rest.

UnCommonGrafx
01-06-2018, 09:35 AM
Feels like I'm learning another app....

EBD3D
01-06-2018, 09:49 AM
Bonjour à tous

Voici mon 1er test sur Lightwave 2018, la scène 3D n'est pas de moi seulement le rendu de l'image

Merci
_____________________________________
Hello everyone

Here is my first test on Lightwave 2018, the 3D scene is not only me rendering the image

Thank you

139230

gerry_g
01-06-2018, 10:53 AM
the watch face glass is heavily pixelated not because of low AA but because of low MIS sample size (this determines how many pixels are in the image that is being sampled for the reflection) I'm guessing you have an Environment Light that is sampling the backdrop, at the bottom of the Light Properties Panel is an MIS setting which defaults to 256, try upping it 512, or 1024 or even 2048

DogBoy
01-06-2018, 11:44 AM
Very nice work. I'd love a closer look at your 2018 nodes. Are you just using exported maps from Painter and plugging them in somehow?

Pretty much. Principled BSDF Material just needs the images.

JohnMarchant
01-06-2018, 11:47 AM
Feels like I'm learning another app....

Indeed in several areas it does, modeler not much change but Payoutsurfaces and rendering, big changes.

JohnMarchant
01-06-2018, 11:49 AM
the watch face glass is heavily pixelated not because of low AA but because of low MIS sample size (this determines how many pixels are in the image that is being sampled for the reflection) I'm guessing you have an Environment Light that is sampling the backdrop, at the bottom of the Light Properties Panel is an MIS setting which defaults to 256, try upping it 512, or 1024 or even 2048

Thanks for that Gerry, i will take a look.

DogBoy
01-06-2018, 12:01 PM
Thanks for that Gerry, i will take a look.

If you are using an environ light, check out Andrew Combs vid on them, as that might be your issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72AAwSFx4nA&feature=youtu.be

Asticles
01-06-2018, 12:25 PM
139217

Just a quick one 10 Mins Render time. Still getting my head around the new renderer and surfaces setup.

Hmm, maybe you should make a bug report (don't know if this is the correct behaviour).
Have you tried to make the compo in another software?, also, remove background if any.

Edit:Look at the image, on the left, with background disabled. On the right, with red background.
It's a png, open it with pchop or gimp to see the alpha.
I can see a black rim, don't know if it is a bug. Modo also makes a white border on my renders.

139235

JohnMarchant
01-06-2018, 01:08 PM
Hmm, maybe you should make a bug report (don't know if this is the correct behaviour).
Have you tried to make the compo in another software?, also, remove background if any.

Edit:Look at the image, on the left, with background disabled. On the right, with red background.
It's a png, open it with pchop or gimp to see the alpha.
I can see a black rim, don't know if it is a bug. Modo also makes a white border on my renders.

139235

Thanks i will take a look, i dont remember seeing this before on 2015, although someone else said it happened. I turned off alpha in the buffers as this was never for compositing anyway.

- - - Updated - - -


If you are using an environ light, check out Andrew Combs vid on them, as that might be your issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72AAwSFx4nA&feature=youtu.be

Will check out Andrews video thanks.

JohnMarchant
01-06-2018, 02:09 PM
A combination of Gerry's advice and Andrews video did the trick and boy have i got some new stuff to learn in 2018, oh well onwards and upwards.

JohnMarchant
01-06-2018, 06:17 PM
139248

Well the results of Gerry's input and Andrew Combs Video sorted it out, thanks all.

Kryslin
01-07-2018, 01:38 AM
139257
Refinement of several things, except render times.
Thanks to Oliver for his FFX measurement utility.
3D Hack is tired, needs sleep.

UnCommonGrafx
01-07-2018, 04:26 AM
ffx plays a lot better now. Looking good.
Robert

rustythe1
01-07-2018, 05:53 AM
finally got my Prometheus to start behaving, and render times are good! still a little noise in shadows but these took around 4 mins at 4k, around 30 seconds to 1 min at full HD
139262139263
so i think for scifi stuff, it will be great, but interior arch viz, still banging my head, this one took about 6 mins
139264
but still a little noisy and as its so basic i would be expecting less, although i am doing this on my 5 year old 5960,

JohnMarchant
01-07-2018, 05:59 AM
finally got my Prometheus to start behaving, and render times are good! still a little noise in shadows but these took around 4 mins at 4k, around 30 seconds to 1 min at full HD
139262139263
so i think for scifi stuff, it will be great, but interior arch viz, still banging my head, this one took about 6 mins
139264
but still a little noisy and as its so basic i would be expecting less, although i am doing this on my 5 year old 5960,

There is a video by Andrew Comb on environmental lights in 2018. It helped sort out allot of problems i had with noise, fireflies and such. To be honest its best to load in an object, surface, setup and render from scratch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72AAwSFx4nA&t=919s

Markc
01-07-2018, 06:08 AM
Ok, just trying to render a couple of test frames with default settings.
Hit render scene and it says no buffers are set to save?

139265

UnCommonGrafx
01-07-2018, 06:10 AM
Tick the checkmark in the "Save" column.
Robert

Markc
01-07-2018, 06:25 AM
Ahhh...thanks mate.
I thought because they where checked in the buffer panel it was good to go...:D

rustythe1
01-07-2018, 06:29 AM
There is a video by Andrew Comb on environmental lights in 2018. It helped sort out allot of problems i had with noise, fireflies and such. To be honest its best to load in an object, surface, setup and render from scratch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72AAwSFx4nA&t=919s

yes been using those, been using the individual buffer views to track down things, its great for debugging, the noise is in both the spec indirect and diffuse indirect, its just tracking down which light has the sample problem as the scene has a lot of lights, to be honest 4 mins at 4k this is already far cleaner than what i would have got out of 2015,
the trick with the Prometheus was not actually using GI, as the new light system recreates real world lighting on its own, so in a lot of cases you don't need gi, even for arch viz, in this vid about 2 mins he shows how the results of the portal light are identical to gi, but far cleaner in half the time! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjP11gFhwM

JohnMarchant
01-07-2018, 06:40 AM
Go to the render buffers tab and check.

Skywatcher_NT
01-07-2018, 10:30 AM
My first LW2018 test render ( +/- 7min rendertime ).

139266

artzgo
01-07-2018, 12:25 PM
My first LW2018 test render ( +/- 7min rendertime ).

139266

looks very good, one of the best rends I saw from LW 2018 - congratulations!

ps. what CPU

Skywatcher_NT
01-07-2018, 01:53 PM
Thanks. Rendered on i7-4930K @ 3.4GHz

Snosrap
01-07-2018, 03:13 PM
finally got my Prometheus to start behaving, and render times are good! still a little noise in shadows but these took around 4 mins at 4k, around 30 seconds to 1 min at full HD
139262139263
so i think for scifi stuff, it will be great, but interior arch viz, still banging my head, this one took about 6 mins
139264
but still a little noisy and as its so basic i would be expecting less, although i am doing this on my 5 year old 5960,

Fireflys all over the place! I see this as the biggest issue with 2018. I've heard some people say that they are a side effect of PBR- what!!!! :( I'd like to hear from the devs on this.

Snosrap
01-07-2018, 03:17 PM
My first LW2018 test render ( +/- 7min rendertime ).

139266

Great! And yet one or two bright pixels right on his nose. :)

COBRASoft
01-07-2018, 04:52 PM
Very nice render!

gerry_g
01-07-2018, 04:57 PM
I found I had less fireflies when I unticked normalise on old imported scenes for any given light and reset them up properly with the nodes, and some lights don't work well with radiosity, GI and are prone to creating fireflies

Paul_Boland
01-07-2018, 06:11 PM
139279

Simple test scene with a point light. Light falloff distance and intensity are gone. Image is very speckled. And I don't know what those balls on the left are. Going to read the manual and try and figure it all out. It seems setting up a simple scene isn't as simple as it use to be.

Snosrap
01-07-2018, 06:14 PM
139279

Simple test scene with a point light. Light falloff distance and intensity are gone. Image is very speckled. And I don't know what those balls on the left are. Going to read the manual and try and figure it all out. It seems setting up a simple scene isn't as simple as it use to be.

Yep - there is a lot to learn and re-think. :)

Paul_Boland
01-07-2018, 07:39 PM
Yep - there is a lot to learn and re-think. :)

Reading it now, thanks!!

Snosrap
01-07-2018, 08:13 PM
Call me impressed. I threw in an old model I had and changed no surface parameters, set up 3 distant lights (love the soft shadows now) changed AA to 8 - 16, changed GI to 50% and got this in 2 min 41 sec. :) :)

139282

samurai_x
01-07-2018, 08:35 PM
Fireflys all over the place! I see this as the biggest issue with 2018. I've heard some people say that they are a side effect of PBR- what!!!! :( I'd like to hear from the devs on this.

Its because the new renderer is a pathtracer.
Should have been GPU powered tbh like cycles renderer.

OFF
01-07-2018, 08:56 PM
Its because the new renderer is a pathtracer.
Should have been GPU powered tbh like cycles renderer.

Agreed.

The problem is that the speed of the new renderer reminds the old one, which is overloaded with new miscalculation algorithms.

In my opinion, if the renderer is slow it makes sense to make it a GPU compatible. As, for example, Cycles - which can involve both CPU and GPU calculations.

Since otherwise the users will have a very difficult time - the time of production increases and to reduce it will have to spend not small amounts for upgrading equipment, etc.

LW has always had a large army of fans, just among those who wanted for a relatively small amount of money to get a full production environment for 3D visual products.

Now this task has become more complicated. I see an output in only two variants - either to supplement the renderer with the possibility of GPU miscalculations,

or to integrate the AMD Pro Render at the base level. As has already been done in Cinema 4D.

It is possible that the team of LWG will be able to modify the renderer to a level at least approximately resembling Arnold - it is very easy to setup in contrast to the LW

renderer and it is fast on large scenes where it works more efficiently than Octane, for example.

samurai_x
01-07-2018, 09:49 PM
We can always fallback to Lightwave 2015 and get vray(on cpu) like speed in some cases. Not as fast but close enough, with 999 render nodes :D

rustythe1
01-08-2018, 02:33 AM
139279

Simple test scene with a point light. Light falloff distance and intensity are gone. Image is very speckled. And I don't know what those balls on the left are. Going to read the manual and try and figure it all out. It seems setting up a simple scene isn't as simple as it use to be.

if there are no windows, try turning off GI, use the buffers in vpr to find which channel has the noise, probably just add samples to the light, default is only 2 or 4, ive been setting them 48 or up

rustythe1
01-08-2018, 02:39 AM
139288139289
the first image has gi off the second on, as you can see, it makes barley a difference but just takes longer to render

kopperdrake
01-08-2018, 03:18 AM
Here are the bad polygons.

I didn't find a tool or a trick to repair that rapidly..

I notice that with the new opengl and renderer theses polygons are more visible than in the past.
With the old renderer i was able to hide these polygons simply by reducing the smooting angle but it seems something has changed and i think the future models will need to be modeled with more attention.


139140139139

When you converted the model didn't you get a Vertex Normal Map to assign to the surface? That will make it looks wonderful.

ElusiveElephant
01-08-2018, 05:29 AM
Hi everyone,
I really wanted to see how FFX behaves and I'm mighty pleased with it.

1: It doesn't crash. I tweaked a lot with VPR on all the time, sometimesit's lagging but no crash.
2: I like the fur quality, it blends well with the rest of the scene unlike earlier when it looked like az an alien entity.
I forgot the render time but it was smg like 3-4 minutes on a 3 years old dual xeon 12 core setup.
http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139141&d=1515017362

I love this render... so much movement in it for a still, and got to say I'm enjoying FFX much more in 2018.
The character is really nicely modelled, and cute, looks spot on!

MichaelT
01-08-2018, 07:50 AM
We can always fallback to Lightwave 2015 and get vray(on cpu) like speed in some cases. Not as fast but close enough, with 999 render nodes :D

?? There is no vray for lightwave. Are you sitting on some secret? :)

Kryslin
01-09-2018, 01:07 AM
Revisiting an old scene (mainly a display scene for a prop library (which now numbers some 200+ commercial kitchen props...))

139307

Render times and settings for LW2018 noted in image.

omichon
01-09-2018, 02:23 AM
A little more than a test render, my first personal project using early LW2018 : https://vimeo.com/214855284
Mostly to test and explore the new displacement stack, Principle material (for all surfaces except the sphere that uses Conductor) , and portal lights.
...not to mention it was my first attempt at interior scene with LW.

Asticles
01-09-2018, 03:07 AM
Wow!

JohnMarchant
01-09-2018, 03:12 AM
A little more than a test render, my first personal project using early LW2018 : https://vimeo.com/214855284
Mostly to test and explore the new displacement stack, Principle material (for all surfaces except the sphere that uses Conductor) , and portal lights.
...not to mention it was my first attempt at interior scene with LW.

Very nice indeed Oliver and a good test piece.

samurai_x
01-09-2018, 03:13 AM
?? There is no vray for lightwave. Are you sitting on some secret? :)

I meant if the new lightwave 2018 renderer is too slow to get noise out, there's always lw 2015's biased renderer which is as close as we can get to vraylike speed in some cases.

No vray for lightwave now or ever.
Chaosgroup did just release the mac version for modo. Extremely well integrated from what I heard.

omichon
01-09-2018, 03:36 AM
Thank you, Asticles and JohnMarchant. Glad you like it.
There are room for some improvement for sure, especially now that I know how to use the noise filter :D

CaptainMarlowe
01-09-2018, 03:43 AM
Thank you, Asticles and JohnMarchant. Glad you like it.
There are room for some improvement for sure, especially now that I know how to use the noise filter :D

Anyway, great sequence. Impressive.

MichaelT
01-09-2018, 04:03 AM
I meant if the new lightwave 2018 renderer is too slow to get noise out, there's always lw 2015's biased renderer which is as close as we can get to vraylike speed in some cases.

No vray for lightwave now or ever.
Chaosgroup did just release the mac version for modo. Extremely well integrated from what I heard.

No doubt... but I'll stick to C4D for VRay. The license is tied to the C4D License.. I always promote when people/companies put trust in their customers :) Modo have apparently forgotten that now, but I won't mention any more about that.

Waves of light
01-09-2018, 04:07 AM
Ok - here you go. All LW2018. One light, one hrdi.

Forget the cheese texture.. the conversion didn't go to plan. All post in Fusion.

I can't remember the exact render times, but it was around 25-30 mins for 2560x3860.

Regards,
Ricky.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139312&d=1515495916

139312

Asticles
01-09-2018, 05:01 AM
No doubt... but I'll stick to C4D for VRay. The license is tied to the C4D License.. I always promote when people/companies put trust in their customers :) Modo have apparently forgotten that now, but I won't mention any more about that.

Excuse me Michael, does vray for modo have it's license attached to modo? Do you know if octane render for LW also has?

Regards

- - - Updated - - -


Ok - here you go. All LW2018. One light, one hrdi.

Forget the cheese texture.. the conversion didn't go to plan. All post in Fusion.

I can't remember the exact render times, but it was around 25-30 mins for 2560x3860.

Regards,
Ricky.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139312&d=1515495916

139312

Great render! But I should remove a bit of blur.

JohnMarchant
01-09-2018, 05:33 AM
There is a good video on YT by Andrew Comb called Environmental Lighting, it explains some of the problems i was getting in my first renders in 2018, its not long and sorry in English but it pretty well helps you understand the new render engine and hw it works. Its a lot different now and im happy to see real world values like Lux in Lights being used. I hope this trend continues to other areas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72AAwSFx4nA&t=105s

omichon
01-09-2018, 05:36 AM
Anyway, great sequence. Impressive.

Thank you CaptainMarlowe :)

BeeVee
01-09-2018, 05:53 AM
There is a good video on YT by Andrew Comb called Environmental Lighting, it explains some of the problems i was getting in my first renders in 2018, its not long and sorry in English...

Well, Andrew's version... ;)

B

MichaelT
01-09-2018, 06:52 AM
Excuse me Michael, does vray for modo have it's license attached to modo? Do you know if octane render for LW also has?

Regards


No, it's login based. Last I looked anyway. But I don't think they've changed that. Afaik, VRay for C4D is the only version that have the license tied to the actual key for the 3D program.

THIBAULT
01-09-2018, 07:23 AM
Thank you CaptainMarlowe :)

Super travail, super site ! Les travaux présent sur ton site sont tous entièrement réalisé avec LW ?

omichon
01-09-2018, 07:36 AM
Super travail, super site ! Les travaux présent sur ton site sont tous entièrement réalisé avec LW ?

Oui m'sieur ! et merci pour le compliment, Franck :)

Yes sir, all projects and works presented on my site are -mostly- done with LightWave, since it is my primary 3D application. Of course, I use some additional tools when needed like 3D-Coat for sculpting, Substance Painter, Realflow, etc. and there is also always some polish done in post with Fusion or AE.

Photogram
01-09-2018, 08:01 AM
Super porte-folio Olivier! ;)

CaptainMarlowe
01-09-2018, 08:04 AM
Olivier, you are tightly associated to LW in my mind. I joined LW with v9.0, and one of my first move was to buy your tutorial DVD at Elephorm...

Schwyhart
01-09-2018, 08:36 AM
139316

Still trying to get a clean render.

139317139318

omichon
01-09-2018, 08:38 AM
Super porte-folio Olivier! ;)
Merci Photogram :)


Olivier, you are tightly associated to LW in my mind. I joined LW with v9.0, and one of my first move was to buy your tutorial DVD at Elephorm...
That was 10 years ago, already ! I hope the training was helpful, since it was mostly dedicated to new wavers.
And you are tightly associated to medieval reconstitution in my mind ;)

omichon
01-09-2018, 08:43 AM
Still trying to get a clean render.


Your samples, specially in Reflections could be set higher. In some cases, I had some of those settings set to 16 to 24.
Don't forget to check your render buffers and not just the Final render to see where the noise comes from.

gerry_g
01-09-2018, 09:11 AM
'Simple test scene with a point light. Light falloff distance and intensity are gone.'

Edit nodes tab in light property panel, make sure its ticked and then open it, need to look for a distance node and plug it into the output of light intensity ( I think am rendering and can't check ATM)

rustythe1
01-09-2018, 09:21 AM
139316

Still trying to get a clean render.

139317139318

yes, check each of your buffers in the vpr, you will probably see the noise is in diffuse or spec, my guess is you need to up the light samples (on the lights themselves) rather than the render options ones, and try without interporlated, or even turn off gi altogether if your using area lights, its not always needed, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjP11gFhwM goto 2mins in this video and he shows you the effect of turning off gi and just use portal area light, its far faster and cleaner.

CaptainMarlowe
01-09-2018, 09:24 AM
Merci Photogram :)


That was 10 years ago, already ! I hope the training was helpful, since it was mostly dedicated to new wavers.
And you are tightly associated to medieval reconstitution in my mind ;)

Thx. I guess your tuts were quite useful, since I'm still using LW ten years later...:)

jwiede
01-09-2018, 10:47 AM
Chaosgroup did just release the mac version for modo. Extremely well integrated from what I heard.

Not sure what you mean by this. MODO Vray for Mac has worked since the beta (I was a beta tester), as has VrayRT.

bazsa73
01-09-2018, 11:39 AM
A little more than a test render, my first personal project using early LW2018 : https://vimeo.com/214855284
Mostly to test and explore the new displacement stack, Principle material (for all surfaces except the sphere that uses Conductor) , and portal lights.
...not to mention it was my first attempt at interior scene with LW.

Simpe but effective concept and nice render. Good job!

vncnt
01-09-2018, 01:16 PM
Thank for linking to the RH video, I've just discovered that the lights have values measured in Lumens, thanks I guess, although it's not super intuitive. This from the manual.

{Loading a scene from a previous version of LightWave will automatically convert scene lights to the correct values, but if you need to manually convert a 100 % light from the old percentage scale to Lux you can do so according to the following rules:

Area * 3.14
Distant * 3.14
Dome * 1.57 (converted to Distant light with the appropriate angle)
Linear * 3.14
NGon * 3.14
Photometric no changes, but see note
Point * 3.14
Spherical * 6.28
Spotlight * 3.14
3rd party lights * 3.14}

So 100% is 3.14. I'm not very mathematically oriented so that's gonna be odd for me, what would 50% percent be? Anyway, they broke the egg to make an omelet.

1 lux = 1 lumen/m2

3.14 is almost equal to Pi
Area = pi * radius * radius

If radius is 1, the area is 3.1415...

So if the conversion mentions 3.14, I would expect a circular shaped light source with a radius of 1.
Sphere has a factor 2
Dome has a factor 0.5

50% can be entered as 0.5 * pi in a data field.

sadkkf
01-09-2018, 01:22 PM
1 lux = 1 lumen/m2

3.14 is almost equal to Pi
Area = pi * radius * radius

If radius is 1, the area is 3.1415...

So if the conversion mentions 3.14, I would expect a circular shaped light source with a radius of 1.
Sphere has a factor 2
Dome has a factor 0.5

50% can be entered as 0.5 * pi in a data field.

Just to be clear:

Area = pi*(radius * radius)

:)

Schwyhart
01-09-2018, 05:03 PM
I'm using luminous polys...no lights. Unless someone has a better way of creating the fluorescent lights. I decided on luminous polys because the camera can see the bulbs at various angles.

Snosrap
01-09-2018, 06:12 PM
I'm using luminous polys...no lights. Unless someone has a better way of creating the fluorescent lights. I decided on luminous polys because the camera can see the bulbs at various angles.

Try using linear lights. They of course can be seen by the camera and you can resize them and cap their ends. Seems like they would make perfect fluorescent lights.

lertola2
01-09-2018, 09:02 PM
Here is a test of a volume using the dots procedural texture.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139320&d=1515556576

139320

Snosrap
01-09-2018, 09:28 PM
Cool!!

UnCommonGrafx
01-10-2018, 04:23 AM
Turn your gi off, just to see, what the diff is.
Your light samples, upped to 24+, will probably help a lot.

For sure, look at the docs on the noise reduction workflow: it's priceless for this piece. The buffers won't fix this.

Area-portal lights are Fast; use those if you can.
Robert

- - - Updated - - -

Lertola,
Great example of possibilities.

aperezg
01-10-2018, 05:21 AM
Bonjour à tous

Voici mon 1er test sur Lightwave 2018, la scène 3D n'est pas de moi seulement le rendu de l'image

Merci
_____________________________________
Hello everyone

Here is my first test on Lightwave 2018, the 3D scene is not only me rendering the image

Thank you

139230

It's nice render.
Could you show us the settings please?
Are you using Kray?

Thanks

vncnt
01-10-2018, 06:39 AM
Just to be clear:

Area = pi*(radius * radius)

:)

What's the difference?

sadkkf
01-10-2018, 07:08 AM
What's the difference?

None really, but I was always taught to display it that way. :)

injacphi
01-10-2018, 08:19 AM
here's some renders, lots of noise, I use the noise filter but don't seem to work very well. Also the render time are so long....

139326

139327

dsol
01-10-2018, 09:18 AM
139328139329
LW2018 render engine is certainly slaking my thirst for procedurally-generated organic-looking shapes wrapped in smoke and fog :)

jeric_synergy
01-10-2018, 10:16 AM
139328139329
lw2018 render engine is certainly slaking my thirst for procedurally-generated organic-looking shapes wrapped in smoke and fog :)

lol!!!

DonJMyers
01-10-2018, 01:21 PM
I worked on the WB flop Pluto Nash ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO and several of the files loaded into LW 2018 GREAT! Here is the main shot and one of the objects (with no lights but one). As you can see it still looks good! That's what I love about LW being one of the oldest still existing 3D programs. I'm going to try some files I made even earlier and see how they look. These were made with LW 6 originally, which was buggy, so I assume newer objects will work even better. I even enjoyed the look of testing the glass brick wall texture on the primitive examples. I also like how I can test a texture on an entire object. In this case I made the "lunar grand" building all chrome in seconds as a texture text. Much better than the ball or box method of previous LW versions.

Loving LW 2018!

139335
139340

The objects were made 20 years ago and the movie came out about 18-17 years ago as it sat on the shelf a dud for almost two years. Giving the growing dial up internet time to kill it before it arrived. It was a different time. Pluto Nash is just plain not funny and the great special FX make it even worse. Spectacle is perceived as serious. I think I spent more time thinking about what went into my Moon Beach est. shot than the writer spent on the whole movie. Moon Beach is "Las Vegas on the moon."

DonJMyers
01-10-2018, 01:50 PM
here's some renders, lots of noise, I use the noise filter but don't seem to work very well. Also the render time are so long....

139326

139327

The noise filter is a post process. I was having trouble too till I found these two places that REALLY reduced noise:

1. render properties/global illumination/brute force rays: 1 is default and too low set to 3.

2. Per light noise: light properties/light samples or volumetric samples: increase above default.

These fix a LOT. The many tweaks in the render properties/render panel only fix certain things (like reflection) that are more scene specific.

Dan Ritchie
01-10-2018, 04:15 PM
Makes me feel like crushing an AT-ST

139341

DonJMyers
01-11-2018, 10:46 AM
Makes me feel like crushing an AT-ST

139341

How about a landslide made of those? Do these primitives interact with bullet physics?

BeeVee
01-11-2018, 01:09 PM
They do, but you have to give them shapes manually.

B

DonJMyers
01-11-2018, 01:17 PM
I made the object FIFTEEN years ago and it loads without a hitch and still looks good! Wrong time of day lighting and no rain but who cares.

139374

DonJMyers
01-11-2018, 01:20 PM
They do, but you have to give them shapes manually.

B

What do you mean by that?

Photogram
01-11-2018, 11:46 PM
Hi

Here is a LW2018 render.

This is a Bombardier Global Express Jet i made in 1999 it load without problems in LW2018!

The new renderer is so realistic compare to previous versions and the new OpenGL is so much better with that kind of model.

Cheers LWG! 139378

BeeVee
01-12-2018, 02:25 AM
What do you mean by that?

I mean you need to set the transform manually. If you look at those sample scenes (just scenes, no objects needed - how cool is that? :)) you will see that they consist solely of primitive objects. Try and add a new one yourself, and add it to Bullet. By default it will be a Box shape and the size will probably be wrong so you need to change that on the Transform tab of Bullet Options. Have a look at the gif to see what I mean.

B

aperezg
01-12-2018, 04:34 AM
Hi

Here is a LW2018 render.

This is a Bombardier Global Express Jet i made in 1999 it load without problems in LW2018!

The new renderer is so realistic compare to previous versions and the new OpenGL is so much better with that kind of model.

Cheers LWG! 139378


Could you show us the settings please?

Thanks

op3d
01-12-2018, 05:24 AM
Modeled with Lightwave 2015 and rendered with Lightwave 2018.
Noise filter.
Adjustment of curve and bloom in photoshop ... (I miss DPFilter:oye:)

Render 17m36s in dual xeon x5650

139382

Photogram
01-12-2018, 11:11 AM
139382

This is so beautifull Ikebana10 :) Is this brute force or interpolated?

Photogram
01-12-2018, 11:35 AM
Could you show us the settings please?

Thanks

Hello Aperezg!

I have strong difficulty in denoising this interior scene. I use brute Force because i don't like messing with interpolated that i always succed to get done by some luck and too much time. So i prefer the brute force method but that noise... I cranck every light samples but it slow down the render too much.
Finally i get to a happy middle and hope the lightwave denoiser will do it but i don't like the blurry effect, i want crisp textures on my seats for example.
I finally added an subtle environement light just to add more light samples to all materials and i reduced my noise significantly.
At the end i just remove the noise manually in Photoshop with a Reduce noise smart filter.

If you have suggestions please tell me :)

Here are the settings :)

GI 4 rays ( maybe not enough)
Sample Backdrop on
ISBG Sampling set to 2048 (maybe too much i'm not sure)

For the sky i use Dpont Sunsky



139394

Photogram
01-12-2018, 11:41 AM
Here is an updated snapshot that show the render settings insted of the Global illuminations settings.

139395

Photogram
01-12-2018, 11:44 AM
139328139329
LW2018 render engine is certainly slaking my thirst for procedurally-generated organic-looking shapes wrapped in smoke and fog :)

I like theses effects! nice renders :)

DonJMyers
01-12-2018, 11:44 AM
GI 4 rays ( maybe not enough)


I would take that to 6. That is the single most important number for cleaning up radiosity issues as far as I can tell.

Photogram
01-12-2018, 12:01 PM
I would take that to 6. That is the single most important number for cleaning up radiosity issues as far as I can tell.

Thanks DonJMyers i will try that!

I also add a filter Radius of 0.5 to the camera Adaptive Sampling.

aperezg
01-12-2018, 12:09 PM
Hello Aperezg!

I have strong difficulty in denoising this interior scene. I use brute Force because i don't like messing with interpolated that i always succed to get done by some luck and too much time. So i prefer the brute force method but that noise... I cranck every light samples but it slow down the render too much.
Finally i get to a happy middle and hope the lightwave denoiser will do it but i don't like the blurry effect, i want crisp textures on my seats for example.
I finally added an subtle environement light just to add more light samples to all materials and i reduced my noise significantly.
At the end i just remove the noise manually in Photoshop with a Reduce noise smart filter.

If you have suggestions please tell me :)

Here are the settings :)

GI 4 rays ( maybe not enough)
Sample Backdrop on
ISBG Sampling set to 2048 (maybe too much i'm not sure)

For the sky i use Dpont Sunsky



139394

Hi.. Photogram

I have the same problems. In my tests. I had a lot of noise, I turn on enable noise filter in render properties panel, but the textures appear blurry.
I increase the samples in the lights and increase the rays in Brute force, but the render take a lot of time.

I will be try again this weekend

Thank you for the settings

JohnMarchant
01-12-2018, 12:25 PM
Maybe some kind souls could share their render presets.

JamesCurtis
01-12-2018, 01:00 PM
Render Presets would be nice indeed!

CaptainMarlowe
01-12-2018, 01:23 PM
Here is an updated snapshot that show the render settings insted of the Global illuminations settings.

139395

You may want to try reducing your MIS from 4096 to 2048 or even 1024 in your portal lights, it seems very heavy. On the other hand, I would crank up a little the minimum samples on the camera to 4 and also crank up quite a bit refraction and reflexion samples in the render panel. 3 and 1 seem to be very low to me. I usually set them to 6 or more if I have reflective materials. But it is just a semi-educated guess, as I am myself in the process of learning this render engine.

JohnMarchant
01-12-2018, 01:40 PM
Render Presets would be nice indeed!

I think LWG3D did themselves no favours by not including such things. Just 6 presets, indoor, outdoor for fast, medium and slow rendering. Yes once you watch Andrew Combs video' RebelHills and some others you get the drift but they could have killed off some of the initial comments especially on FB about bad renders, fireflies and jaggies just by including some.

Asticles
01-12-2018, 02:41 PM
Don't use brute force, only use it for exterior renders.

Photogram
01-12-2018, 03:39 PM
You may want to try reducing your MIS from 4096 to 2048 or even 1024 in your portal lights, it seems very heavy. On the other hand, I would crank up a little the minimum samples on the camera to 4 and also crank up quite a bit refraction and reflexion samples in the render panel. 3 and 1 seem to be very low to me. I usually set them to 6 or more if I have reflective materials. But it is just a semi-educated guess, as I am myself in the process of learning this render engine.

Thanks CaptainMarlowe for the good advices, i will post a new render soon :)

I applied your recommandation and it seem to render faster and i get better quality.

Merci cousin de la France ;)

op3d
01-13-2018, 02:06 AM
This is so beautifull Ikebana10 :) Is this brute force or interpolated?

Thanks. Brute force

CaptainMarlowe
01-13-2018, 02:25 AM
Thanks CaptainMarlowe for the good advices, i will post a new render soon :)

I applied your recommandation and it seem to render faster and i get better quality.

Merci cousin de la France ;)

De rien ! ;)

The Dommo
01-13-2018, 08:55 AM
A little more than a test render, my first personal project using early LW2018 : https://vimeo.com/214855284
Mostly to test and explore the new displacement stack, Principle material (for all surfaces except the sphere that uses Conductor) , and portal lights.
...not to mention it was my first attempt at interior scene with LW.

Amazing work as ever, from Olivier !

Kryslin
01-13-2018, 10:08 AM
139403

My attempt at some arch-vis. All modeled in LW 10 & 11 and brought into 2018.
No radiosity, I used an environment light and a very nice HDRI of a garden behind a museum in Tokyo.
Render time of 18 minutes and change.

Camera Samples : Min 1, Max 8, Adaptive Sampling.
Reconstruction Filter : Mitchell, Radius 2.0

2 Reflection Samples, 2 Refraction Samples, 2 SSS Samples.
Noise reduction on, Radius 2, Threshold 0.03

Notes from conversion:
1) The convert to Principled Nodes isn't perfect; The Bonsai in the back corner, after conversion, cause a very hard crash, straight to desktop. I'm whittling down the geometry to the bare minimum to cause the problem, and will send it off in a bug report. It had something to do with the transparency map...

2) The translucent windows (simulating shoji windows) wasn't easy to get looking right. Floating viewport seems to be crash prone and slow to update for texture preview,will test some more.

3) Missing the weaves node from RMan collection. :( Fortunately, Tatami textures are fairly common on the web.

Asticles
01-13-2018, 12:03 PM
Just did a test with displacement. A bit tricky the slope value. Maybe some Lwavers specialists on terrains could make some tutorials.

139404

139405

Regards!

CaptainMarlowe
01-13-2018, 12:13 PM
A few render tests made from models I have completely reworked with new shading system (which was quite easy with OD_tools, since I had painted - or processed textures for - almost all of them in substance painter/designer, therefore, they were "PBR-ready"). I have some fireflies to get rid of on the SCI-FI one, but I'll find a way. Some postwork on the castle (mainly the lens flare).

139406 139407 139408

DonJMyers
01-13-2018, 12:20 PM
139403

My attempt at some arch-vis.

Your "set" would be a great candidate for testing the cel shaders since it has few textures. Plus the japanese scene makes me think of anime anyway :)

Asticles
01-13-2018, 12:24 PM
Wow, that castle has evolved a lot!
Be careful with the horses material, they seem made of ceramic.

CaptainMarlowe
01-13-2018, 12:30 PM
Wow, that castle has evolved a lot!
Be careful with the horses material, they seem made of ceramic.

Yeah, the horses are just free models I used for reference. I plan to texture them and mess with FiberFX with them !

Kryslin
01-13-2018, 01:52 PM
Your "set" would be a great candidate for testing the cel shaders since it has few textures. Plus the japanese scene makes me think of anime anyway :)

I'll have to give it a shot, then.

madno
01-13-2018, 05:11 PM
Test with brute force and caustics (2018.0.1).
21m 47sec.

139417

Photogram
01-13-2018, 06:01 PM
Here is my final version!!

Brute Force 1920X1080 pixels 2:26h min

I uncheked Sample Backdrop and ISBG Sampling in GI panel.

The noise cleaning has been done in Lightwave first and then exported the Object and Surface ID buffers to Photoshop where i used the Reduce Noise filter.

Thanks for the help :)

For animating this no choice everything will need to be baked or go with Interpolated..

Only one crash in Layout till January 1st 2018!!!

No airplane has been crashed during these tests ;)


139419139420

CaptainMarlowe
01-14-2018, 12:02 AM
Much cleaner !

Meshbuilder
01-14-2018, 01:56 AM
Here are my first two renders.
Just downloaded some free models and played around with the new lights and shading system.
There are a lot of new settings to learn in LightWave 2018 render engine :)

139428 139427

djwaterman
01-14-2018, 02:57 AM
I resolved to set aside the weekend to do a set up or two in 2018. I only have 17 days left on the trial so despite me not being that into it I took time out to get into it. Here's something that started out as based on a photo reference, going for that print catalog look. Some post work in PShop, might have gone over board but it was mainly to do something new and not just resurrect a previous old scene.

139429

All materials are Principal Shader and there's two NGon lights used. Still unsure how I feel about 2018 at this stage, I played around with some old scenes but it was too much fuss converting lighting and I figured it's best to make new choices with the new lights, sampling and whatnot and see what they offer, old scenes with old set ups were slow to render.

Markc
01-14-2018, 09:14 AM
139432
Updated an old model with 2018 shaders.

scallahan1
01-14-2018, 10:04 AM
The objects were made 20 years ago and the movie came out about 18-17 years ago as it sat on the shelf a dud for almost two years. Giving the growing dial up internet time to kill it before it arrived. It was a different time. Pluto Nash is just plain not funny and the great special FX make it even worse. Spectacle is perceived as serious. I think I spent more time thinking about what went into my Moon Beach est. shot than the writer spent on the whole movie. Moon Beach is "Las Vegas on the moon."

Great, now I just had to add this to my Netflix DVD queue. Since it has LW in it, I HAVE to see it. :)

Steve

Snosrap
01-14-2018, 03:24 PM
I resolved to set aside the weekend to do a set up or two in 2018. I only have 17 days left on the trial so despite me not being that into it I took time out to get into it. Here's something that started out as based on a photo reference, going for that print catalog look. Some post work in PShop, might have gone over board but it was mainly to do something new and not just resurrect a previous old scene.

139429

All materials are Principal Shader and there's two NGon lights used. Still unsure how I feel about 2018 at this stage, I played around with some old scenes but it was too much fuss converting lighting and I figured it's best to make new choices with the new lights, sampling and whatnot and see what they offer, old scenes with old set ups were slow to render.

Excellent! One of the best yet. :)

jwiede
01-14-2018, 10:43 PM
Test with brute force and caustics (2018.0.1).
21m 47sec.

139417

Something looks a bit "off" about the base of the glass (below the fluid). Quite nice in a lot of other areas, though.

omichon
01-15-2018, 12:21 AM
Something looks a bit "off" about the base of the glass (below the fluid). Quite nice in a lot of other areas, though.

Agree. Looks like there are some missing shadows. My guess will be that Opaque option wasn't turned ON for Dielectric materials.

Photogram
01-15-2018, 06:56 AM
Here is about the same render re-rendered with Lightwave 2018.0.1

I'm confused because the rendering is not the same as in the first release LW2018.0

I've lost the cool light colors of the sky coming from the outside of the airplane.

I've wrapped my head to find what can i do and finally got this result.. I never been able to restore the cool more white light on my interior surfaces..

Now the interior seem to have a better illumination (less dark area) but everything is too war in my opinion.. (yellowish)

I've try every parameters and finally cut the GI from 100% to 80% and lower my Sun from 20 lx to 5lx
Also needed to boost the specular of the seats and the wood wall in the background loose many beautifull windows reflections that i've never been able to restore...

But theres is now less noise!





139451139452

- - - Updated - - -

gar26lw
01-15-2018, 07:05 AM
hi Photogram. I am not sure about the colour cast in the new version of the renderer but I would be inclined to render and save as a layered open EXR.

load into photoshop with http://www.exr-io.com and adjust exposure and colours there in 32 bit mode, drop to 16 bit for further processing (since not all features in 32 bit) and save as whatever :)

Photogram
01-15-2018, 08:24 AM
hi Photogram. I am not sure about the colour cast in the new version of the renderer but I would be inclined to render and save as a layered open EXR.

load into photoshop with http://www.exr-io.com and adjust exposure and colours there in 32 bit mode, drop to 16 bit for further processing (since not all features in 32 bit) and save as whatever :)

Thank's for the tip gar26lw!

I will look on this side ;)

jwiede
01-15-2018, 02:25 PM
Here is about the same render re-rendered with Lightwave 2018.0.1

I'm confused because the rendering is not the same as in the first release LW2018.0

I've lost the cool light colors of the sky coming from the outside of the airplane.

I've wrapped my head to find what can i do and finally got this result.. I never been able to restore the cool more white light on my interior surfaces..

Now the interior seem to have a better illumination (less dark area) but everything is too war in my opinion.. (yellowish)

Agreed. Now the image looks too warm, blurry refl appear degraded, and while there might be fewer dark areas in the interior, I actually preferred the contrast they provided in the 2018.0 version of the image -- now the lighting looks a bit "too uniform".

EBD3D
01-15-2018, 02:46 PM
Lightwave 2018 :

Render time : 2h47
Diffuse bounces : 8
Ray primal : 600
Secondary ray : 200
Camera : min 5/ Max 15

139456

Lightwave 2018.0.1 :

Render time : 1h50
Diffuse bounces : 4
Ray primal : 600
Secondary ray : 200
Camera : min 5/ Max 15

139457

erikals
01-15-2018, 03:12 PM
better + faster!   :)

DonJMyers
01-15-2018, 07:01 PM
Waaaahh everyone is rendering spiffy interiors of homes the middle class can no longer afford in USA! Oh well, I will live in the virtual LW world instead. Hey it worked for "The Sims!"

Snosrap
01-15-2018, 07:31 PM
Lightwave 2018 :

Render time : 2h47
Diffuse bounces : 8
Ray primal : 600
Secondary ray : 200
Camera : min 5/ Max 15

139456

Lightwave 2018.0.1 :

Render time : 1h50
Diffuse bounces : 4
Ray primal : 600
Secondary ray : 200
Camera : min 5/ Max 15

139457

What'a going on with the sink?

DonJMyers
01-15-2018, 08:47 PM
This rendered great except for a problem with the diffuse channel on the nose. Running latest patch. Volumetrics with a subdiv object (the mask). I do not think the problem is with my converted model from LW 2015. It just started happening after I patched.

139463

JamesCurtis
01-15-2018, 10:27 PM
Maybe some stray poly's that are the default color? You seem to have some in the lower RT eye opening as well.

To fix:

In Modeler, check to see if you have any surfaces called Default in the model. You can do that by hitting the "w" key and check in the column Surfaces to try and highlight them if they exist, and then give them the same surface as the Face.

There may be other reasons for this too. I'm hoping someone else here may have a suggestion as well.

EBD3D
01-16-2018, 12:07 AM
What'a going on with the sink?

Version Lightwave 2018
Reflection Recursion limit : 1
Refraction Recursion limit : 1

Version Lightwave 2018.0.1
Reflection Recursion limit : 4
Refraction Recursion limit : 4


As the rendering is faster, I had increased some parameter on the 2018.0.1 version ;)

EBD3D
01-16-2018, 12:11 AM
What'a going on with the sink?

Version Lightwave 2018
Reflection Recursion limit : 1
Refraction Recursion limit : 1

Version Lightwave 2018.0.1
Reflection Recursion limit : 4
Refraction Recursion limit : 4


As the rendering is faster, I had increased some parameter on the 2018.0.1 version ;)

"DonJMyers" I lend you the keys, good virtual stay ^^

DonJMyers
01-16-2018, 01:05 AM
Maybe some stray poly's that are the default color?

No it did not happen before the upgrade. It is also in the diffuse channel only. The other side of the mask is white and I'm not sure if the other side is being rendered on the front.

omichon
01-16-2018, 03:59 AM
As the rendering is faster, I had increased some parameter on the 2018.0.1 version ;)



But why is it so hard to get nice and clean (interpolated) radiosity solution in sharp inner angles/edges with 2018 (or 2018.0.1) ?
I haven't seen anything satisfying so far, and can't get a clean radiosity solution in angles myself , even with crazy number of samples :confused:

THIBAULT
01-16-2018, 06:55 AM
But why is it so hard to get nice and clean (interpolated) radiosity solution in sharp inner angles/edges with 2018 (or 2018.0.1) ?
I haven't seen anything satisfying so far, and can't get a clean radiosity solution in angles myself , even with crazy number of samples :confused:

Idem here ! Back to 2015.3 with Octane ! Going to 2018 when Octane plugin is ready !

ideart
01-16-2018, 07:18 AM
Lightwave 2018 :

Render time : 2h47
Diffuse bounces : 8
Ray primal : 600
Secondary ray : 200
Camera : min 5/ Max 15

139456

Lightwave 2018.0.1 :

Render time : 1h50
Diffuse bounces : 4
Ray primal : 600
Secondary ray : 200
Camera : min 5/ Max 15

139457

1h50 for splotchy corners. Lightwave renderer remains arch-viz unfriendly.

THIBAULT
01-16-2018, 07:25 AM
Yes ! Not for us ! Octane or Kray !

ideart
01-16-2018, 07:35 AM
Yes ! Not for us ! Octane or Kray !

Don't get me started on kray.
But yes, for LW there are only these two options.

THIBAULT
01-16-2018, 07:59 AM
Don't get me started on kray..

Me too !

tyrot
01-16-2018, 08:04 AM
told ya .. octane for archviz all the way... !

ideart
01-16-2018, 08:16 AM
told ya .. octane for archviz all the way... !

Octane is a more modern solution but not very productive with complex interior animations unless you have 10 or 20 modern video cards.
Why isn't LW more attractive to the industry leader renderers?

Nicolas Jordan
01-16-2018, 08:53 AM
told ya .. octane for archviz all the way... !

I'm also looking into Octane for my rendering needs. What kind of video cards are needed for Octane to be able to deal with complex and fairly heavy Arch Viz scenes? I also render most of them out at fairly high res like 4000 x 3000 or even higher up to 8k. I downloaded the demo version of Octane and it choked on a standard house rendering. I only have a GTX 770 2GB card though. Will i need 3 x 11 GB cards to have enough memory?

THIBAULT
01-16-2018, 09:05 AM
Octane is a more modern solution but not very productive with complex interior animations unless you have 10 or 20 modern video cards.
Why isn't LW more attractive to the industry leader renderers?

6 TITAN X 12 Go here ! It's cool and fast with Octane ! And, in few weeks/months, we'are going to have denoising with Octane ! After, all is good for interieur fixe or animation !

Nicolas Jordan
01-16-2018, 10:04 AM
Octane is a more modern solution but not very productive with complex interior animations unless you have 10 or 20 modern video cards.
Why isn't LW more attractive to the industry leader renderers?

Ya in my tests it chokes on my exterior scenes. I use 3d grass trees and shrubs. I'm thinking heavy scenes need at least 3 high end video cards with 8-11 GB each. I'm relunctant to invest in GPU hardware based on using Octane. I'm considering a THreadripper machine instead. Plenty of money to be spent either way.

tyrot
01-16-2018, 12:53 PM
no no ... 780 GTX dual .. served me so well in many years with octane.. even it has 3 GB memories.... never saw any render time over 1 minute for HD res. videos..

jwiede
01-16-2018, 02:46 PM
Don't get me started on kray.
But yes, for LW there are only these two options.

It's odd (and a bit disappointing), Kray 3 (despite all it's issues) still seems both faster and (ultimately) cleaner w.r.t. radiosity, particularly in such "problem areas".

Chris S. (Fez)
01-16-2018, 04:15 PM
It's odd (and a bit disappointing), Kray 3 (despite all it's issues) still seems both faster and (ultimately) cleaner w.r.t. radiosity, particularly in such "problem areas".

I think I can confirm 2018 has a GI quality problem. Rumblings they are revising their algorithms. Hopefully sooner than later.

Nicolas Jordan
01-16-2018, 04:26 PM
I think I can confirm 2018 has a GI quality problem. Rumblings they are revising their algorithms. Hopefully sooner than later.

It also takes longer to render than 2015 on every single scene I have tested, more than double on some and just a bit longer on others. I have decided to continue using 2015 for the foreseeable future or until 2018 can render almost as fast as 2015 and they solve these other issues that seem to be coming up. I think 2018 would have benefited from an open beta.

DonJMyers
01-16-2018, 05:20 PM
This is about the max quality you can expect from a single machine running an older AMD 2080mhz 8 core for about 24 hours. Around 5 min a frame or worse because volumetrics COST. But I love how you can fly right up to and into them now. But I really need more machines now for this :) I have setup a spare machine using the render software but it is only 1/5 the speed of mine.

FIXED FOR FINAL: Render error on the nose a modeling problem, blobs of volumetric fog at end don't fade out well.

I'm making this animation to celebrate the tenth anniversary of Anonymous V Scientology - V for Vendetta masks etc.


https://youtu.be/shTNnTvEpC0

jwiede
01-16-2018, 10:42 PM
I think I can confirm 2018 has a GI quality problem. Rumblings they are revising their algorithms. Hopefully sooner than later.


It also takes longer to render than 2015 on every single scene I have tested, more than double on some and just a bit longer on others. I have decided to continue using 2015 for the foreseeable future or until 2018 can render almost as fast as 2015 and they solve these other issues that seem to be coming up. I think 2018 would have benefited from an open beta.

These issues are neither subtle, nor difficult to reproduce -- are we to believe these issues weren't apparent prior to release? If so, think about what that says regarding the depth and thoroughness of their testing, given how quickly customers identified them.

"Rumblings they are revising their algorithms" would have been an excellent bit of communication six months to a year ago. At this point, all it does for me is raise more disturbing questions about their engineering processes. The render engine was the main feature deliverable in LW2018, after all, and this isn't a early test, this is a released product.

ideart
01-17-2018, 01:01 AM
6 TITAN X 12 Go here ! It's cool and fast with Octane ! And, in few weeks/months, we'are going to have denoising with Octane ! After, all is good for interieur fixe or animation !

I have only 5 980 and 2 980ti currently but the render times are not quite near of Kray's in complex interiors. I have high hopes for the upcoming denoising in Octane and I am planning on adding 3-4 1080ti this year.

ideart
01-17-2018, 01:16 AM
It's odd (and a bit disappointing), Kray 3 (despite all it's issues) still seems both faster and (ultimately) cleaner w.r.t. radiosity, particularly in such "problem areas".

Kray 3 is not finished and judging from the development pace it should take about 2 more years to deliver a complete software with all what is promised to have. After all it is just one programmer with two additional software to develop and support. Also when it would be ready it would offer what Vray does for years now. Kray2 although obsolete is great for fast stills but a nightmare for animation because after all these years is still buggy in that area and the anti aliasing is problematic.

omichon
01-17-2018, 02:38 AM
My intention with my last post (#210) wasn't for this thread to be hijacked to promote alternative render engines, but to push more testing the GI area in 2018.
Not being in arch-viz business area myself, I can't tell if a 3rd party renderer is needed or not, but I need the flexibility of the native renderer and I prefer to put my energy (without conservation ;) ) in improving LW renderer rather than running away from problems and going in a ever ending quest of the ultimate renderer.
Thanks to Exception for his more constructive thread :) : http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155730-Big-Bad-2018-2015-Global-Illumination-shootout

vashts
01-17-2018, 05:24 AM
Hello everyone,
here is a render test of a personal project I'm working on in those weeks, pushing on scene complexity, heavy polycount and lot of instances. No post, just the render straight out of LW.
139520

Cheers!

G

jakuzaa
01-17-2018, 05:34 AM
Nice, but it begs for some volumetrics!

kopperdrake
01-17-2018, 07:01 AM
I'm also looking into Octane for my rendering needs. What kind of video cards are needed for Octane to be able to deal with complex and fairly heavy Arch Viz scenes? I also render most of them out at fairly high res like 4000 x 3000 or even higher up to 8k. I downloaded the demo version of Octane and it choked on a standard house rendering. I only have a GTX 770 2GB card though. Will i need 3 x 11 GB cards to have enough memory?

As a single shot? Let me dig some times out for two 1080Ti I have in my PC. It's not crazy times.

kopperdrake
01-17-2018, 07:41 AM
Here you go - Octane render - 3,508 x 2,480 - two 1080Ti (not overclocked but I could do if needed). 5.3Gb memory used, 3.7Gb memory free. 12.1 million tri polys. 2h 52m.

http://albino-igil.com/Samples/Plot10_v001.jpg

THIBAULT
01-17-2018, 08:02 AM
Here you go - Octane render - 3,508 x 2,480 - two 1080Ti (not overclocked but I could do if needed). 5.3Gb memory used, 3.7Gb memory free. 12.1 million tri polys. 2h 52m.

http://albino-igil.com/Samples/Plot10_v001.jpg

1 H 00 i think with 6 X TITAN X 12 GO

Photogram
01-17-2018, 08:07 AM
Hello everyone,
here is a render test of a personal project I'm working on in those weeks, pushing on scene complexity, heavy polycount and lot of instances. No post, just the render straight out of LW.
139520

Cheers!

G

Wow gorgeous!

I can't imagine how many hours you worked on this?

That is beautifull

Nicolas Jordan
01-17-2018, 08:22 AM
Here you go - Octane render - 3,508 x 2,480 - two 1080Ti (not overclocked but I could do if needed). 5.3Gb memory used, 3.7Gb memory free. 12.1 million tri polys. 2h 52m.

http://albino-igil.com/Samples/Plot10_v001.jpg

Thanks for posting this! This is very similar to the kind of scenes I render. It gives me a very good idea of the hardware needed and how rendering in Octane would compare to Lightwave native.

MarcusM
01-17-2018, 08:25 AM
I have done few test with GI and new materials.

All standard materials, except red sphere.
139530

Principled BSDF materials on walls and floor. All materials settings on 0% and the same color. Looks like Principled BSDF are darker.
139531

Scene have two area lights, one as portal.
139532

vashts
01-17-2018, 09:32 AM
Wow gorgeous!

I can't imagine how many hours you worked on this?

That is beautifull

Thanks!
I can't really say how much time I'm working on this, just because I did several versions of this scene (never finished the previous ones...) randomly in my (short) spare time. But I want to finish this version. Maybe with some volumetrics, as someone else suggested.

G

DonJMyers
01-17-2018, 11:08 AM
Hello everyone,
here is a render test of a personal project I'm working on in those weeks, pushing on scene complexity, heavy polycount and lot of instances. No post, just the render straight out of LW.
139520

Cheers!

G

That is absolutely spectacular! Only the background image, which is a little large when you compare leaf sizes to fgnd, gives it away. DOF choice was perfect.

vashts
01-17-2018, 11:19 AM
That is absolutely spectacular! Only the background image, which is a little large when you compare leaf sizes to fgnd, gives it away. DOF choice was perfect.

Thanks! The background HDRI is there just for illumination purposes. It won't be visible (or at least very subtle) in the final version. Still quite a lot of work to do for what I have in mind...

G

prometheus
01-17-2018, 12:07 PM
Hello everyone,
here is a render test of a personal project I'm working on in those weeks, pushing on scene complexity, heavy polycount and lot of instances. No post, just the render straight out of LW.
139520

Cheers!

G

Very nice, impressive with the tiny moss, is that the new fiberfx system, or instances polys?
The only thing that doesn´t match, that is the backdrop image, if you can..throw in full cg environment instead to keep the match with what is real and not.

RPSchmidt
01-17-2018, 12:37 PM
Here you go - Octane render - 3,508 x 2,480 - two 1080Ti (not overclocked but I could do if needed). 5.3Gb memory used, 3.7Gb memory free. 12.1 million tri polys. 2h 52m.

http://albino-igil.com/Samples/Plot10_v001.jpg

It's a lovely render... but I feel like the lighting is killing the shadows. Without darker shadows, it feels like there's no depth and makes the scene look a wee bit flat. Especially under the foliage... I feel like there should be more overlap and the shadows should extend farther out.

When I look at the door overhang, I can see the edge of the shadow leading out from the overhang along the wall. Then I look at the flowers and I expect to see a similar angle to their shadows on the ground in relation to their height, but the shadows are so washed out that you don't really get that. I expect to see more shadow under / between the crowded flowers, but it isn't there.

Just my two cents... it is a very nice render.

vashts
01-17-2018, 01:12 PM
Very nice, impressive with the tiny moss, is that the new fiberfx system, or instances polys?
The only thing that doesn´t match, that is the backdrop image, if you can..throw in full cg environment instead to keep the match with what is real and not.

Yes, as said in the previous post, it's a work in progress and the background image is there for illumination only, and it will replaced by real geometry. Moss is a real 3d mesh modeled by me in several variations and instanced on a simplified mesh of the wood. Will post some progresses when available.

G

Photogram
01-21-2018, 03:24 PM
Here is my first try with the new volumetric primitive :)

I got so much difficulty achieving the clouds arround the earth and especially when landing on earth the clouds are not realist and appear smear. The gradient node are difficult to setup because the gradient values are so close that is impossible to tweak perfectly. Maybe somebody have good advices i wondering to get better clouds and less flat when viewed from space.

https://vimeo.com/252071811

- - - Updated - - -

zapper1998
01-21-2018, 05:15 PM
Here you go - Octane render - 3,508 x 2,480 - two 1080Ti (not overclocked but I could do if needed). 5.3Gb memory used, 3.7Gb memory free. 12.1 million tri polys. 2h 52m.




That image was rendered in 2015 correct???

MichaelT
01-21-2018, 05:22 PM
@Photogram :
I don't think LW is made for that type of precision that is needed for that type of rendering. I've already tried it myself, and while I did manage to get some limits on the clouds.. they just ended up looking incredibly basic. Afaik, only a game engine, or Terragen are capable of truly flying from space to earth soil.. and still look great. But I would happily be corrected if someone knows of a way to achieve that?

prometheus
01-21-2018, 05:29 PM
in order to get it to look realistic, scaling and all other aspects needs to be taken in account, ogo taiki did that, with infinite cloud layers, and proper scale, so that turns out realistic when you go below, under clouds and move out to space, trying to do that with spherical nulls, and at a lower size?? too much hazzle I think without even getting close

paulhart
01-21-2018, 05:39 PM
A lot of beautiful renders, however, is anybody looking at different Passes and getting Black as the output.
I have another thread about this, but everybody seems to be hanging out on this thread . . . so, please check your Passes Buffers in VPR.
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155784-Black-buffer-output-Direct-Indirect-Raw_RGB

Kryslin
01-21-2018, 10:59 PM
Last of the Catgirls...
139653
For the information not listed on the image...
Samples : Min 4, Max 6, Gaussian. Rad. =.5
Reflective 2, Refractive 1, SSS 2
1 Direct Light, Samples 4

I applied some of the information from the Arnold For Freelancers video someone linked to.
I've actually managed to get this image down to 9m30s, by only changing the tile size... to 1K x 1K.

kopperdrake
01-22-2018, 01:32 AM
That image was rendered in 2015 correct???

Yes - just there to show how quick Octane is for the chap who asked. I've bought 2018, but haven't looked at it as a new renderer isn't a priority for me just yet. I *should* look at it, but I've so many long term ongoing projects that have been done with Octane or the old renderer, that to add a third to the offering would be a bit of a nightmare currently. One day :)