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Paul_Boland
12-27-2017, 08:39 PM
Hi Folks.

Just working out my budget for the coming three months and I have a question. The announcement for Lightwave 2018 says:

"Pricing and Availability

LightWave 2018 for Windows and Mac OS will be available for sale on January 1, 2018 at 12:01am GMT. LightWave 2018 will be $995USD. Registered owners of any previous version of LightWave 3D can upgrade to LightWave 2018 for $295USD through March 31, 2018."

If I can't upgrade before the end of March, what will the upgrade price be?

Schwyhart
12-27-2017, 08:56 PM
I think $395...but don't quote me on that

hrgiger
12-28-2017, 03:16 AM
It said previously 795 for people on older versions of LW, 295 for 2015 owners. But as with NT, most things are subject to change. Especially as it seems we have gone through yet ANOTHER shakeup.

http://www.cgchannel.com/2015/09/newtek-announces-new-lightwave-pricing/

samurai_x
12-28-2017, 07:48 AM
I think $395...but don't quote me on that

They said they will honor the Core deal of 5 upgrades for the same price. This is the third one.
395 for charter, 495 for post charter. Special promo 295 until March.

Paul_Boland
12-28-2017, 08:35 AM
They said they will honor the Core deal of 5 upgrades for the same price. This is the third one.
395 for charter, 495 for post charter. Special promo 295 until March.

Thanks very much for this.

Snosrap
12-28-2017, 03:20 PM
But if you are currently current it's $295 - (no time limit other than buying before the next paid upgrade comes out) - And if you stay current it's $295 forever! :)

Chris S. (Fez)
12-28-2017, 04:11 PM
But if you are currently current it's $295 - (no time limit other than buying before the next paid upgrade comes out) - And if you stay current it's $295 forever! :)


For Core early bird folks only?

djwaterman
12-28-2017, 05:00 PM
For Core early bird folks only?

No, for anyone who is current.

http://www.cgchannel.com/2015/09/newtek-announces-new-lightwave-pricing/

Newtek needs to clarify this, this far out there shouldn't still be any confusion about pricing. I think catering to the core users has thrown in this extra layer of confusing detail that makes a very simple policy seem more complicated than it is. If you are not a core member, simply ignore anything to do with that and it all becomes easy to understand.

Paul_Boland
12-28-2017, 06:20 PM
Ok, I'm a bit confused... I did buy into CORE but I wasn't one of the early members, I came in much later, before it all fell apart. So I got Lightwave 10, 11, and now using 2015. If I miss the end of March deadline for the $295 upgrade price, do I still have that offer until the next Lightwave Next arrives, or will it go up after March? If the latter, does anyone know how much it will go up by?

Thanks.

Marander
12-28-2017, 07:22 PM
Ok, I'm a bit confused... I did buy into CORE but I wasn't one of the early members, I came in much later, before it all fell apart. So I got Lightwave 10, 11, and now using 2015. If I miss the end of March deadline for the $295 upgrade price, do I still have that offer until the next Lightwave Next arrives, or will it go up after March? If the latter, does anyone know how much it will go up by?

Thanks.

If NewTek sticks to their promise from 2015 then you can buy 2018 for $295 as long as you're 'current' (as long as you have 2015 and no new version comes out).

So no need to rush.

Have you not seen all their constant promotions the last 2.5 years?

I expect them to prolong the promotion anyway because they always do and I'll not be surprised if LW remains beeing on constant sale. Hardly anybody is going to upgrade for a higher price, not to even think of $795 that they announced back then.

Snosrap
12-28-2017, 08:08 PM
Yes - I don't know why this is so hard for Newtek to just calm everybody's fears and just spell it out. - If you are current your upgrade price is $295. If you continue to stay current, your price on future upgrades is $295. If you fall behind in upgrades your cost is $795. It's really that simple. The confusion has come into play because new people at NT had to take over when Rob left and were not made aware of the new LW pricing scheme. So no worries Mr. Boland, just buy when you are ready before the next paid release and your price will be $295. :)

BTW - Core membership means nothing when it comes to getting the best price. Probably means nothing in other areas as well. :)

SBowie
12-28-2017, 08:50 PM
I expect them to prolong the promotion anyway because they always do ...I seriously do not think this is going to happen. We'll see, but it wasn't NewTek management behind that pattern.

Paul_Boland
12-28-2017, 10:07 PM
Great! Thanks for all the clarification, much appreciated!

samurai_x
12-28-2017, 10:53 PM
If you are current your upgrade price is $295. If you continue to stay current, your price on future upgrades is $295.

This part wasn't clear. So any Lw 2015 licensed users can avail of 295 after march?

hrgiger
12-28-2017, 10:54 PM
I didn't see anything was actually clarified. There is still no official word about what the price is after March 31st.

And catering to the CORE users didn't add any confusion to the mix, NT did when they've changed direction several times without any clarification on why the changes were needed or what any actual change might mean for customers moving forward. Once again we find ourselves in the position of having no clue if NT has the first clue this time either.

And you don't cater to someone you made a commitment to, that's called honoring an agreement.

samurai_x
12-28-2017, 11:01 PM
I didn't see anything was actually clarified. There is still no official word about what the price is after March 31st.


I vaguely remember Rob saying people can upgrade for 295 from lw 11 to 2015 and to the next versions if the user stays current regardless of charter/ post charter.
But he didn't say if there was a window for that.
Now if I were NT, I would forget about this march 31st window. They need to gain more users after the $#@& that happened after lw 2015.

Marander
12-29-2017, 02:29 AM
I seriously do not think this is going to happen. We'll see, but it wasn't NewTek management behind that pattern.

Yes we'll see.

To me it looks the same tactics, promising a cheap upgrade within a time frame, if you don't act fast the price will increase.

That's what they did in September 2015, then prolonging to October, November etc. The message was always 'last chance', 'act now', 'few days left' etc. Tricking people onto the 2015 upgrade.

Just to find out 2 years later that it was all blabla and EVERYBODY can upgrade for $295, even Edu users. Waisted $400.

I will wait past March and the first point release. If the price increases, then there will be no more LW upgrade for me.

We'll see....

THIBAULT
12-29-2017, 02:59 AM
Yes we'll see.

To me it looks the same tactics, promising a cheap upgrade within a time frame, if you don't act fast the price will increase.

That's what they did in September 2015, then prolonging to October, November etc. The message was always 'last chance', 'act now', 'few days left' etc. Tricking people onto the 2015 upgrade.

Just to find out 2 years later that it was all blabla and EVERYBODY can upgrade for $295, even Edu users. Waisted $400.

I will wait past March and the first point release. If the price increases, then there will be no more LW upgrade for me.

We'll see....

Don't know what you're doing here !

SBowie
12-29-2017, 06:43 AM
Yes we'll see. To me it looks the same tactics, promising a cheap upgrade within a time frame, if you don't act fast the price will increase.
Speaking just as another member here, albeit one a bit closer to the action than some, I think there's a bit of a skewed perception at work in the way some look at the occurrences of last few years.

Up until just recently, it also seems to me that LW3DG operated as a semi-autonomous entity to a greater or lesser degree, with backing from the mothership. Now, it would only be fair to imagine that this backing was not wholly without limit, and that there would have been certain expectations as respects progress on both the development and business aspects. Perhaps the interminable sales and associated 'blue sky' expectations represented attempts to achieve those goals; I don't really know. Anyway, while the dynamics of this relationship will probably will remain unseen from public view, it seems to me that there is a tendency in some quarters to blame anything perceived as negative on NewTek; whereas if anything is perceived as a plus, it's 'thank heavens for LW3DG leadership', as if they managed to do this despite some sort of NewTek 'headwind'.

And yet ... it seems clear to me that the 'never-ending sales' practices that ultimately irritated many, arguably devalued the product (not to suggest that there aren't other influences in this respect), and produced the current confusing mess of expectations and rights - were initiated and carried out entirely in the LW3DG domain, rather than having been mandated by NewTek - who (at this juncture at least) appears to be resuming control and attempting to get things back on a sustainable track.

Some will suggest that the longer history calls NewTek's success in managing the product into question, to which I can only say it's true it's been a bumpy ride, but such are far from uncommon in the software realm despite best efforts all round. My point, though. is that it seems unreasonable to castigate NewTek for the endless promotions, despite its having really played only a supporting role in some of the more recent events.

On the topic of upgrade costs, I reiterate that attempts to clear up the various sometimes conflicting and overlapping commitments are underway, and it is already true that individual issues are being adjudicated - so far to mutual satisfaction - as they arise. If you choose to postpone as some sort of litmus test, I hope you fall into that latter category. In passing, and on a somewhat related point, I've seen one or two posting notionally related information quoting outside sources, as opposed to direct offers or LW3DG press releases. I'm sorry to say that I don't really think such outside sources will prove useful in determining outcomes, since by their very nature they constitute an interpretation of sales policies and conditions, rather than the very thing. I'm afraid they serve more to add to the confusion rather than clarifying anything.

tcoursey
12-29-2017, 06:59 AM
I'm taking advantage of the $295 for everyone, right off the bat. If it stinks or has issues I'll bench it and go back to my production of 11.6.3, and be current! I'm just glad we have this release and not a 404 error at lightwave3d.com lol.

Marander
12-29-2017, 07:17 AM
Thanks Steve for the explanations. Yes true we have to differentiate between LWD3G and NewTek. Also true external sources have been mentioned but this information is correctly stating the promotions LW3DG has provided. We will see how LW progresses now controlled by NewTek but I also believe it will be better.

SBowie
12-29-2017, 07:25 AM
Also true external sources have been mentioned but this information is correctly stating the promotions LW3DG has provided.I have passed along the related internally generated material that has been linked to in these threads to those involved in policy, and if anyone has related material I'd be happy if they emailed it to me. I'm leery of external sources, although I haven't examined this all closely, but I fear there may be some nuanced matters that are not faithfully transmitted in them ... best to stick to canon, I think.

Paul_Boland
12-29-2017, 09:25 AM
LOL!! Confusion continues... Is the price going up at the end of March or not??? Ok, let me try and work miracles with my budget and see if I can swing the upgrade within the three month confirmed safe zone. But, Steve, LW3DG, Newtek, it would be great to get confirmed details of this please A.S.A.P. Thanks.

SBowie
12-29-2017, 09:39 AM
LOL!! Confusion continues... Is the price going up at the end of March or not???I am confident it will, but I believe there may still be some who have preferential pricing past that date (if not to the same degree) by virtue of their specific 'deals'.

prometheus
12-29-2017, 10:38 AM
Please make a script and a button next to update or about lightwave that has the command and tells you..

"Your price until the end of March 2018... and after the end of March 2018 it will be..., just as simple and clear as that for every individual to check their own status :)"

Snosrap
12-29-2017, 12:08 PM
I have passed along the related internally generated material that has been linked to in these threads to those involved in policy, and if anyone has related material I'd be happy if they emailed it to me. I'm leery of external sources, although I haven't examined this all closely, but I fear there may be some nuanced matters that are not faithfully transmitted in them ... best to stick to canon, I think.

Fourth sentence. Rob Powers - "If you have upgraded to 2015 or if you take advantage of this current promo to get current with 2015 then you will receive $295 for all future upgrades of LightWave." Pretty cut and dry. The only way out of it Steve is to put out a paid upgrade that has one little new tool or bug fix that people don't feel is worth the $295 upgrade and will therefore lose their rights to the next "significant" paid upgrade of $295. So the next upgrade for that user would be $795 but subsequent upgrades if he/she stays current is $295. :) It's not our fault that NT and LW Group were not on the same page with this. Even so, if you guys can pull off a feature rich upgrade every 12 to 18 months, $295 would seem like a pretty decent revenue stream and would almost constitute a "subscription" model.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model/page5

hrgiger
12-29-2017, 12:30 PM
Maybe people have missed whole thing repeated ad nauseum over the years about all things subject to change.

jaf
12-29-2017, 01:08 PM
Well, I'm still not happy about spending $395 for lw2015 in April of this year because LW Support wrote to me:

So this means that right now if you upgraded to 2015, that'd be $395 - but that would lock you to $295 for the next version -
if you wait, you'll have to pay $795 to upgrade.
Thank you for your report.
LightWave 3D Group Support

I'm a hobbyist and mostly use Modeler. The email from support enticed me to buy the 2015 upgrade so I would save money when the next version came out. Bait and switch?

Chris S. (Fez)
12-29-2017, 01:47 PM
The $295 is missing "if you stay current" but also implied since the post was supplemental to the following information: LightWave Special Upgrade Price from a Current Version - $295 (USD)
LightWave Regular Upgrade Price from a Non-Current Version - $795 (USD)
LightWave Full License Price - $1195

But, yeah, looks like anyone who took advantage of that particular promotion: all future upgrades FROM a current version will be $295. You can't skip a release and hop back onto the $295 track.

Chris S. (Fez)
12-29-2017, 01:51 PM
Well, I'm still not happy about spending $395 for lw2015 in April of this year because LW Support wrote to me:

So this means that right now if you upgraded to 2015, that'd be $395 - but that would lock you to $295 for the next version -
if you wait, you'll have to pay $795 to upgrade.
Thank you for your report.
LightWave 3D Group Support

I'm a hobbyist and mostly use Modeler. The email from support enticed me to buy the 2015 upgrade so I would save money when the next version came out. Bait and switch?

No. Because you are entitled to $295 for all future releases. You are presently on the $295 track because you took advantage of the promotion. If you do not stay current you lose the benefits of that particular promotion and are subject to higher upgrade costs.

I think.

Snosrap
12-29-2017, 02:47 PM
Maybe people have missed whole thing repeated ad nauseum over the years about all things subject to change.

True that. But change course before the thing even gets rolling. Again if (and we all know that's a big if) they can pull off yearly or almost yearly upgrades - $295 could be a practical business model depending on how many users they have.

SBowie
12-29-2017, 09:02 PM
Ahem: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155329-NEWTEK-ANNOUNCEMENT!-quot-The-wait-is-over-quot&p=1528809&viewfull=1#post1528809


Well, I'm still not happy about spending $395 for lw2015 in April of this year because LW Support wrote to me:

So this means that right now if you upgraded to 2015, that'd be $395 - but that would lock you to $295 for the next version -
if you wait, you'll have to pay $795 to upgrade.
Thank you for your report.
LightWave 3D Group Support

I'm a hobbyist and mostly use Modeler. The email from support enticed me to buy the 2015 upgrade so I would save money when the next version came out. Bait and switch?

Jirapong
12-31-2017, 12:45 AM
Something like this happened before with LightWave promotions. I could not remember when we got email special price for three month, and after that the price was still promotion one for the other three months, and the other three months after that. The worse, the new promotion sometimes gave LWCAD, Chronosculpt, etc. I complained I. The forum before, and some just said it was because I want more goodies. It’s true, but it also about fairness.
So, when getting email about the price will going up, if I don’t getv2015 now. I didn’t take the bait anymore. My bet is right this time. I saved $395 this time.

Greenlaw
12-31-2017, 11:32 AM
I think you have to decide for yourself if the tools are a good value for you right now...or not. If it's something you really need and the price seems reasonable, you probably should go for it. If the tools prove useful, you won't regret it.

If not a good value to you, then wait until it is. By this, I don't necessarily mean wait for a greater price decrease or added goodies...wait until it feels right for you to buy. If it never seems like a good value to you, then you probably don't need it.

If it becomes less of a value to you later, then you definitely don't need it.

Daphne
12-31-2017, 07:40 PM
It appears that we can upgrade now. I didn't think it went live until tomorrow.

prometheus
12-31-2017, 08:50 PM
In my account I got the offer saying my price will be ..

2639.61 SEK (swedish crowns) and that would roundly be 323 USD...This without the VAT, And with the VAT it lands on..
3300 SEK and that would be roundly 403 USD, So it all becomes more than 295 both without and with the VAT, I need to check what may have been applyable for me.
I bought in to lw 9.6 then upgrades to lw 10 and chartermembership, and upgrade charter for lw 11.x and upgrade charter for 2015.

Jirapong
12-31-2017, 09:46 PM
Paul, I feel so sorry for you.
You asked about what will happen after March, you got cold answer and cold response from the community. I can see you are so faithful in LW, managing to pull in money, but eventually short of the VAT. So, you voiced it out. I can see you did do, just because you want to let out. You got cold response from the community again.
Eventually they just deleted your post. You cannot even vent out for relief.
I started LW since 6.5, back in 2001, not long, compared to a lot of people here. However, I saw the change from warm community to something that hard to cold one. Of cause, there are a lot of nice people stound here, but it looks less and less from me.
Happy New Year and I wish you can pull it again to get upgrade your lovely LightWave.

erikals
12-31-2017, 10:13 PM
the rules for import and Vat are so different depending on where you buy it from. a discussion like that could be never-ending.
it might be best to contact support at NT.

Prometheus, around 3300 SEK inc. Vat sounds about right.
(+/- a few dollars)
remember it also depends on the weeks currency rate (afair) also PayPal adds a dollar or 2.

checked, it pretty much came down to 3300 NOK inc. Vat over here.

but again, this might be something for support over at NT.
https://www.lightwave3d.com/contact

prometheus
01-01-2018, 07:39 AM
the rules for import and Vat are so different depending on where you buy it from. a discussion like that could be never-ending.
it might be best to contact support at NT.

Prometheus, around 3300 SEK inc. Vat sounds about right.
(+/- a few dollars)
remember it also depends on the weeks currency rate (afair) also PayPal adds a dollar or 2.

checked, it pretty much came down to 3300 NOK inc. Vat over here.

but again, this might be something for support over at NT.
https://www.lightwave3d.com/contact

Thanks for your check on this erikals, just need to take a closer look if the original prizing is what actually was promized for my purchase with lw2015, or if it should be down to 295 USD?

HarverdGrad
01-01-2018, 08:10 AM
I continue to watch the progression of the following software, because I've spent money on all three.

Lightwave
Modo
Blender



Out of all three ("in my opinion"), Blender is the ONLY program that has made significant strides in the past couple of years.
The other two are locked in a constant back and forth pissing battle to stay in last.

Unless you're a professional producing with Lightwave & Modo, I'm perplexed why a hobbyist would even consider those two at this point.. other than the excitement, and that brief jolt of adrenaline when spending money on something you hope will be better down the road.

Paul_Boland
01-01-2018, 08:59 AM
Paul, I feel so sorry for you.
You asked about what will happen after March, you got cold answer and cold response from the community. I can see you are so faithful in LW, managing to pull in money, but eventually short of the VAT. So, you voiced it out. I can see you did do, just because you want to let out. You got cold response from the community again.
Eventually they just deleted your post. You cannot even vent out for relief.
I started LW since 6.5, back in 2001, not long, compared to a lot of people here. However, I saw the change from warm community to something that hard to cold one. Of cause, there are a lot of nice people stound here, but it looks less and less from me.
Happy New Year and I wish you can pull it again to get upgrade your lovely LightWave.

Thanks. Don't worry, I'll get it sorted. I'm a bit perplexed at the negative feedback that thread got from some forum members but so be it. Have a great 2018! I appreciate you reaching out to me here.

OlaHaldor
01-01-2018, 09:20 AM
I switched from NOK to USD in checkout. $368.75
Hate VAT for software purchased online.. To be honest, I can't remember I've paid VAT for a lot of my software.
I'm a bit bummed tbh.

But I still have until the end of march to decide.

MichaelT
01-01-2018, 09:34 AM
Unfortunately TAX isn't something you can avoid. But I expected as much a long time ago, and saved up for it. But hey.. your choice :)

Umbra
01-01-2018, 09:42 AM
Yes. Setting the currency to USD to get the original/marketed price (295 USD excl tax) and trusting your card holder to give a more beneficial exchange rate is the ticket. If going through paypal, make sure you again forward the currency exchange if that will be beneficial. Some card holder publicize exchange rates online. But I think the common consensus is that the card holder is usually the cheaper option.

The added VAT is proper. I do too remember getting atleast one upgrade without VAT a long time ago through newtek.com or lightwave3d.com, aswell as almost skipping an upgrade in protest because of how much extra I needed to pay because NT-EU repriced unfairly in Euros and VAT. Especially the VAT on the overcharge had my head boiling. Truly paying for nothing there. But with new EU VAT legislation, concerning digital services in particular, the seller is required to collect it. As such, you can't expect to avoid VAT on software anymore (as a consumer/non-business). Just as you should not when importing goods. You can hope to avoid it, but it was and is probably not correct. The system just recently caught up and solved the practicality of it all (collecting VAT at correct rate from millions of buyers in various countries; MOSS).

vonpietro
01-09-2018, 10:27 AM
was there an answer to this question - about 2015 owners after the march deadline to upgrade for 295?

tcoursey
01-09-2018, 10:53 AM
No matter what it will be $295 is probably the lowest it would ever be, current or not. I'd try and get the budget working towards upgrading before March if it's important to you. Would love to know numbers of sales and upgrades. Would give us all a good insight to how strong the market is for LW what further development might look like for us.

samurai_x
01-09-2018, 11:31 AM
was there an answer to this question - about 2015 owners after the march deadline to upgrade for 295?

I expect the 295 deal to continue beyond march for Core users.
That's what Rob and LWG promised. And we are on the third upgrade of five guaranteed 295 upgrades.

rustythe1
01-09-2018, 11:34 AM
from what matt hinted, it all went crazy on new years,

50one
01-09-2018, 11:53 AM
Core users should get it for free along with all future updates.

m.d.
01-09-2018, 12:27 PM
If they promised a group of customers a future $295 price as a buying incentive, they can change policy all they want....becomes a legal matter at that point.

SBowie
01-09-2018, 12:44 PM
Core users should get it for free along with all future updates.And a unicorn .... :)

sadkkf
01-09-2018, 01:12 PM
And a unicorn .... :)

I want my unicorn! :)

Gungho3D
01-09-2018, 05:21 PM
And a unicorn .... :)

"... and a Partridge in a Pear Tree"