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tapsnap
12-26-2017, 01:01 PM
Hi Everyone.
I haven't upgraded my Lightwave since version 9.6. That's about 11 or 12 years and quite honestly since 2009 I haven't used it that much. However, I used to use it all the time and so I haven't forgotten all that much and I can pretty much pick up where I left off when I do have to use it.
Now that 3D printing is getting cheaper I am tempted to upgrade my Lightwave so I can model more products and prototypes. My question is; have the modeling tools been upgraded significantly since version 9.6 or are there only relatively minor enhancments? I used to use Amapi 3D and was always more impressed with those modeling tools. I could model stuff really quickly and often used to import the models into Lightwave to animate. Unfortunately that program is no longer about. Then there are 3rd party plugins that are quite useful. I have LWCAD version 2.5. Should I perhaps upgrade that instead since that has NURBS modeling. That one focuses a little too much on architecture. I need tools for product design. I'm sure by now, there are other 3rd party plugins that would be really useful to me. Anyway, how about it; are the modeling tools worth the Lightwave upgrade?

rdolishny
12-26-2017, 01:46 PM
Based on what I've seen, there's really not a lot of improvements to the UI or UX at all. The bulk of the additions or enhancements are with the shaders and renderer. Modeller is left in the cold. If I was just modelling I'd stick with Modo or Zbrush.

prometheus
12-26-2017, 02:18 PM
Hi Everyone.
I haven't upgraded my Lightwave since version 9.6. That's about 11 or 12 years and quite honestly since 2009 I haven't used it that much. However, I used to use it all the time and so I haven't forgotten all that much and I can pretty much pick up where I left off when I do have to use it.
Now that 3D printing is getting cheaper I am tempted to upgrade my Lightwave so I can model more products and prototypes. My question is; have the modeling tools been upgraded significantly since version 9.6 or are there only relatively minor enhancments? I used to use Amapi 3D and was always more impressed with those modeling tools. I could model stuff really quickly and often used to import the models into Lightwave to animate. Unfortunately that program is no longer about. Then there are 3rd party plugins that are quite useful. I have LWCAD version 2.5. Should I perhaps upgrade that instead since that has NURBS modeling. That one focuses a little too much on architecture. I need tools for product design. I'm sure by now, there are other 3rd party plugins that would be really useful to me. Anyway, how about it; are the modeling tools worth the Lightwave upgrade?


I would shout NO, use blender for sculpting and nurbs, especially if you aim for printing and product design, blenders sculpting tools are really nice, and if you do not require that extra multimillion zbrush capability for wrinkles and such stuff, blender should do it, and you get away with no cost at all..except for learning time, which may be a bit daunting..but if you focus on what you need too, sculpting and modeling..I do not think it should be that difficult.
thereīs nurb tools in blender, you got curves that with a click on a button turns in to filled curves with thickness, and can be converted to mesh, you got the skin modifier that can mesh any line, polyline etc, and you use that as a skelegon structure for the mesh, with the ability to blend edgejoints (this is not possible in lightwave) not even with lw cad.

Lw cad new nurbs tool seem great, but perhaps look at other nurbs tool before choosing, as well as looking in to blender nurbs.

Also to note, the modifiers in blender can be non destructive, so beveling can be adusted whenever it needs to, if you are not satisfied with the first tweaks.

Ma3rk
12-26-2017, 02:33 PM
I would shout NO, use blender for sculpting and nurbs, especially if you aim for printing and product design, blenders sculpting tools are really nice, and if you do not require that extra multimillion zbrush capability for wrinkles and such stuff, blender should do it, and you get away with no cost at all..except for learning time, which may be a bit daunting..but if you focus on what you need too, sculpting and modeling..I do not think it should be that difficult.
thereīs nurb tools in blender, you got curves that with a click on a button turns in to filled curves with thickness, and can be converted to mesh, you got the skin modifier that can mesh any line, polyline etc, and you use that as a skelegon structure for the mesh, with the ability to blend edgejoints (this is not possible in lightwave) not even with lw cad.

Lw cad new nurbs tool seem great, but perhaps look at other nurbs tool before choosing, as well as looking in to blender nurbs.

Hey prometheus,

Perhaps you could whang together a vid showing how to get things in & out of Blender/Lightwave. Did a quick search & found nothing; just forums discussing it. I tried some time ago & had no luck, mainly due to Blender's UI.

Just a thought.

prometheus
12-26-2017, 03:09 PM
Hey prometheus,

Perhaps you could whang together a vid showing how to get things in & out of Blender/Lightwave. Did a quick search & found nothing; just forums discussing it. I tried some time ago & had no luck, mainly due to Blender's UI.

Just a thought.

Depends what it is, scene stuff is more complex, and I honestly havenīt tried all that, objects..not very hard at all..what do you specific talk about, models only or scenes?
models can can be imported directly as lwo in blender, or use obj export from lightwave, and exporting back..mostly with obj format.

You can check my playlist about using lightwave edges ..then send to blender and turn it to skinned meshes, and thereīs even a way to use lightwave particles to create motion paths from that and then turn it to meshes..

I also have in plans before new years eve on how to sculpt comb blender hair, then export it to working guides for lightwave fiberfx, may be useful also for lw 2018, since they improved on the rendering of guides/strands, though I doubt they actually did anything to improve on brush combing in layout, and blender is much better for that, but hair stuff isnīt product design stuff though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC_CWqtFPaE&list=PLdaQ-nxd0g2dM40IQ-J3c1Or4Cm6i1t8F

Wickedpup
12-26-2017, 03:33 PM
Why not use OD_CopyPaste? https://heimlich1024.github.io/OD_CopyPasteExternal/

Ztreem
12-26-2017, 03:46 PM
Why not use OD_CopyPaste? https://heimlich1024.github.io/OD_CopyPasteExternal/

That’s what I use for models. It’s so easy and convenient it almost make it feel like LW & Blender is merged into one package. Model in modeler take it to Blender for sculpting, UV’s, hair, booleans, animation and rendering or send it back to LW if you want.

hypersuperduper
12-26-2017, 03:46 PM
The modeling tools alone are probably not worth the upgrade. Between 9.6 and 2018 there were a number of modeling tools introduced to be sure, but I don’t think it’s anything that would blow anyone away really, you would probably feel at home but also be disappointed how little things have changed. There are a number of newer plugins though that really improve modeler. If you want to stay current in the event that they seriously improve the modeling in a future version, or if you want to use the other parts of lightwave like animation or rendering where a lot more has happened this upgrade promo they have is probably a pretty good deal.

I would recommend testing a demo version in January, and comparing it to blender. Blender is easily a more capable modeler at this point, really for any sort of modeling. But it’s up to you to determine if that capability trumps familiarity.

tapsnap
12-26-2017, 04:28 PM
Yeh, you know even during the years I was heavily using Lightwave, upgrade after upgrade I was disappointed with the changes to modeler and even then users was complaining about it. Seems Newtek just figure that this part of the program is just perfect as it is. I am really familiar with this program and the idea of learning another is something I dread, I think its just something I'm going to have to seriously think about. By the way that program that I was talking about ; Amapi. It had a huge list of programs it could export to and import from. That's part of the reason it was so great.

prometheus
12-26-2017, 04:35 PM
That’s what I use for models. It’s so easy and convenient it almost make it feel like LW & Blender is merged into one package. Model in modeler take it to Blender for sculpting, UV’s, hair, booleans, animation and rendering or send it back to LW if you want.

I am not getting the install procedure for the OD copy and paste, where do you put the python script? and the menu branch.cfg, and loading it in with python load script isnīt doing anything it seems, it gives a syntax error.
lightwave 2015 32 bit

Ztreem
12-26-2017, 05:33 PM
I am not getting the install procedure for the OD copy and paste, where do you put the python script? and the menu branch.cfg, and loading it in with python load script isnīt doing anything it seems, it gives a syntax error.
lightwave 2015 32 bit

Be sure that the download isn’t html code. If you just right click and save as in the browser you get html code. I had to click on the script so see the actual code then select it all and copy it into a text editor and save it as someting.py. There is surely a better way but I couldn’t find it at the time...

Ma3rk
12-26-2017, 06:04 PM
Why not use OD_CopyPaste? https://heimlich1024.github.io/OD_CopyPasteExternal/

'Cuz I've never heard of it I suppose. ;)

Ma3rk
12-26-2017, 06:14 PM
Depends what it is, scene stuff is more complex, and I honestly havenīt tried all that, objects..not very hard at all..what do you specific talk about, models only or scenes?
models can can be imported directly as lwo in blender, or use obj export from lightwave, and exporting back..mostly with obj format.

You can check my playlist about using lightwave edges ..then send to blender and turn it to skinned meshes, and thereīs even a way to use lightwave particles to create motion paths from that and then turn it to meshes.]

I'd think mostly models so I had something familiar to start with & learn Blender. When I last fiddled with it, there was a 3rd party script or plug & never did get it to work for some reason, mostly as there were a number of steps just to it added then simply couldn't find how to use it in Blender's interface.

Sounds like the current version might it incorporated or as it's routine set of add ons. I'll take a look later on then. Too much other newness to deal with at the moment & more coming. But, when the time comes I know where to come & ask.

hrgiger
12-26-2017, 06:29 PM
Its pretty much the same modeler with some new tools added along the way. For all intents and purposes, they've ignored modeling over the last two decades, even when they had a modeling developer but he has been gone for a few years now.

prometheus
12-26-2017, 06:36 PM
Be sure that the download isn’t html code. If you just right click and save as in the browser you get html code. I had to click on the script so see the actual code then select it all and copy it into a text editor and save it as someting.py. There is surely a better way but I couldn’t find it at the time...

thatīs what I did wrong, and I should have known, I had that in the back of my mind that it may have gotten the html code, since I had that issue with other python scripts for blender, so I actually selected it all and pasted it in a text editor ..but it didnīt work anyway, must have missed some line or something, and I am not that used to python either, Anyway....if this python script "od copy and paste" should make a better fuzz, installation files should be in a better format to download or install, too much of this kind of github python scripts is messy and not just a simple download install kind of way..it sucks really.


I'd think mostly models so I had something familiar to start with & learn Blender. When I last fiddled with it, there was a 3rd party script or plug & never did get it to work for some reason, mostly as there were a number of steps just to it added then simply couldn't find how to use it in Blender's interface.

Sounds like the current version might it incorporated or as it's routine set of add ons. I'll take a look later on then. Too much other newness to deal with at the moment & more coming. But, when the time comes I know where to come & ask.
As you can see regarding od copy and paste python, until someone shows exactly the installation procedure or provide a better python upload/download so it installs properly directly from python...meanwhile, the absolute simplest way is to export to obj format, just use lightwave obj export, and in file/import obj as seen in the image...obj is built in in blender file imports.

Now there is also an lwo importer that comes with blender, but it is inactive, so you go to blender preferences and in addon, search for lightwave..and check my images, you need to check that plugin with a checkbox, then also remember to save user settings...
Then the import options should show up along with obj,3dmax etc.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138967&d=1514338393

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138968&d=1514338410




138967

138968

hrgiger
12-26-2017, 06:46 PM
It says right on the GitHub page how to install OD_copy paste in Blender and where to find it after you install it. And it doesn't get any simpler than hitting copy in one app and pasting in another. Beats exporting and importing any day.

Schwyhart
12-26-2017, 08:46 PM
This is what I got from Googling previous releases. There may have been minor tweaks to tools and bug fixes, but for the most part the following are the updates to Modeler from v9.0 - v2018

V9.0
Edge loop selection
Catmull-Clark subdivision surfaces
Flatten tool
Speed Boolean

V9.2
OpenGL improvements

V10.0
UV mapping tools (Transfrom, Scale Rotate, Move, Separate, Stitch, Relax, UV Unwrap. Front, Cubic, Spherical, Cylindrical, & Camera projections.

V11.0
GoZ

V11.5
ABF UV Unwrapping
Edit Edges
Transform
Heat Shrink
Thicken
Place Mesh
Tweak

v2015.0
Falloff Improvements
Mouse Wheel Zooming
Double-Click to Deselect

V2018.0
Layout View
Live Lattice
Live Smoothing
Live Array
Live Spline Bridge

Schwyhart
12-26-2017, 08:50 PM
Just reading past articles from various venues, it seems as though Newtek has tried to rewrite LW since version 9. Core was basically a completely new software, I think, and was starting from scratch.
I sincerely hope that with this new geometry engine, the devs won't have to fight the original code as much.

gar26lw
12-27-2017, 02:33 AM
it’s quite troubling to see modeller updates listed like that.

samurai_x
12-27-2017, 05:57 AM
Just reading past articles from various venues, it seems as though Newtek has tried to rewrite LW since version 9. Core was basically a completely new software, I think, and was starting from scratch.
I sincerely hope that with this new geometry engine, the devs won't have to fight the original code as much.

They've probably tried it 3 times now.
Lw before the luxology devs left
Lw 9 adding modelling tools in layout
Lw CORE.

So its never going to be done. Its not financially feasible.
Some of the lw users remaining are satisfied with the split anyway. Even one lightwaver pointing out that people work with Marvelous designer and Maya, that its the same split as we have in lightwave layout and modeler. Hahaha. Dumbest comment ever.

hrgiger
12-27-2017, 06:31 AM
Some of the lw users remaining are satisfied with the split anyway. Even one lightwaver pointing out that people work with Marvelous designer and Maya, that its the same split as we have in lightwave layout and modeler. Hahaha. Dumbest comment ever.

Well not dumb. Maybe misguided. Using multiple apps for their areas of focus is pretty much standard these days. I probably add one or two new apps a year. But having your dcc app functions split between two apps is completely different. A better analogy would be like having the pattern making aspect of marvelous designer being split into a seperate app than the simulation aspect. It makes little sense and it makes little sense anymore that lw is split into two.

gar26lw
12-27-2017, 06:51 AM
death to lightwave; everything sucks! :p

*in case anyone doesn’t get it, i’m being facetious.

Schwyhart
12-27-2017, 07:11 AM
Lightwave is still an awesome software and definitely not dead.
It is possible to model in LW native as I did it all last year. However, it's probably in your best interest to get LWCAD and 3rd Powers tools.
With these two plugins, modeler has received a lot of updates since v9.

thomascheng
12-27-2017, 07:32 AM
Unfortuntately, that is generally a big turn off for many users. Buying 2 plugins to make modeler good is a not a good selling point.

hypersuperduper
12-27-2017, 08:22 AM
Aren’t the axis tools like axis translate new-ish? I find them very useful even though a lot of people seem to hate them. Edit edges and transform actually changed things up quite a bit. For what it’s worth, modeling in perspective view is generally much more doable in 11.5+ I think. When did the align tool appear?

TheLexx
12-27-2017, 08:34 AM
Is Modo better than LWCAD and 3rd Powers for the purposes of how people would use them with Modeler ? Eg, could Modo knock up architecture as quickly as LWCAD ?

hrgiger
12-27-2017, 12:00 PM
Is Modo better than LWCAD and 3rd Powers for the purposes of how people would use them with Modeler ? Eg, could Modo knock up architecture as quickly as LWCAD ?

Thats kind of a vague question but given my time with lw, lwcad and modo i can say there is always tradeoffs. You can be sure that a number of Modo's tools drew inspiration from viktors work on lwcad. In fact i know Brad Peebler was a big fan of Viktors work and actively tried to recruit him to work for Luxology but Viktor wanted to remain independent at the time. I find discussions of 'quicker' subjective since you could certainly say some things are quicker to do in modeler but when you factor in things like flexibility of toolset or non-destructive nature of tools, the idea of quicker becomes murkier. But for me, overall i find working in Modo more efficient, there are still things about lwcad that keep me using it. But now with OD copy paste by Oliver Hotz, its easy to jump over to modeler occasionally without hassle. That said, even lwcad and 3rd powers cant make up for the shortfalls of modeler. Almost all of 3rd powers tools and lwcad have equivalent tools in Modo with a few exceptions.

Just to add to this and maybe answer your question more specifically, could modo knock out architecture as fast as lwcad? For the most part i would say lwcad is a more focused toolset so it has tools specific to cad design where modos tools try to be more flexible for different situations. You wont have lwcads one click roofing tool or a tool to both boolean and place windows and doors so LWCAD is probably going to give you a quicker end solution.

TheLexx
12-27-2017, 12:12 PM
That helps, many thanks for responding.

prometheus
12-27-2017, 01:08 PM
It says right on the GitHub page how to install OD_copy paste in Blender and where to find it after you install it. And it doesn't get any simpler than hitting copy in one app and pasting in another. Beats exporting and importing any day.

Not easy for me, for lightwave I clicked on the raw files in github, selected all and pasted back to notepad, saved as py and added as plugin, this time it worked for lightwave to have it accept the plugins, but for blender..
added the python script installed from file, did not show up in the preferences..and frankly do not know what plugin name to search for to make sure they are checked, then I tried install from file and the master zipfile, same there..can not see any od addon or export import either in the addon list, as well as I can not see it added to the object menu as any choice.
Now..I am using blender 2.79, and it is just tested on 2.78, maybe that is it?

Chris S. (Fez)
12-27-2017, 01:16 PM
I'm not sure there are exact equivalents for the entire LW Brush suite in Modo. I'd like Foundry to take a close look at the tools and mimic the fast, minimally clicky workflow: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cMhSFBCuQok

"Select through" settings combined with falloffs in Modo should allow Foundry to approximate many of the tools but LW Brush allows super fast, focused, fun workflow once all the hot keys are setup.

prometheus
12-27-2017, 01:26 PM
Not easy for me, for lightwave I clicked on the raw files in github, selected all and pasted back to notepad, saved as py and added as plugin, this time it worked for lightwave to have it accept the plugins, but for blender..
added the python script installed from file, did not show up in the preferences..and frankly do not know what plugin name to search for to make sure they are checked, then I tried install from file and the master zipfile, same there..can not see any od addon or export import either in the addon list, as well as I can not see it added to the object menu as any choice.
Now..I am using blender 2.79, and it is just tested on 2.78, maybe that is it?


I noticed that within the zip folder and as single files, these python scripts are named BLENDER_PasteFromExternal, where I think that may have been a problem, I removed the capital letters "BLENDER" and only kept "PasteFromExternal, and that seem to have solved it so blender could recognize it, I am not sure that was it, it installed and worked in 2.78, I will check out 2.79 again.

Thank you ztreem and wickedpup for giving the heads up on this, a bit messy to install ..but once itīs there, and if I make sure to set up shortcut for copy and paste on this, it will be much faster and smoother to swap between blender and lightwave amongst others.

prometheus
12-27-2017, 02:06 PM
Nope...the Od copy and paste python doesnīt seem to work with blender 2.79, shame...I would like to use it with the ANT landscape tools ..itīs signficantly better than 2.78, I could always go the route of saving out the mesh as obj as I did before, but it would be nice with a smoother transition, I guess I have to mail pixelfoundue and see if it could be made to work with blender 2.79, or if I just could copy and paste the raw python data and save it within blender 2.79 python editor or something.

chikega
12-27-2017, 02:43 PM
I used to use Amapi 3D and was always more impressed with those modeling tools.

I used to use Amapi back in the day too. It was impressive and ahead of it's time in many regards. Since then many quite good modelers have come and gone (Hexagon, etc...) ... although Silo3d looks like new life is being breathed back into it. By far my favorite modeler for a zen-like work flow. Nvil and Rocket3d being spiritual successors.

Ztreem
12-27-2017, 02:57 PM
Nope...the Od copy and paste python doesnīt seem to work with blender 2.79, shame...I would like to use it with the ANT landscape tools ..itīs signficantly better than 2.78, I could always go the route of saving out the mesh as obj as I did before, but it would be nice with a smoother transition, I guess I have to mail pixelfoundue and see if it could be made to work with blender 2.79, or if I just could copy and paste the raw python data and save it within blender 2.79 python editor or something.

Works for me in 2.79.

One workaround if you get it to work in 2.78 is to copy the settings from 2.78 to 2.79. Its a folder somewhere (can’t recall where, try google)with many files and even all the addons.

TheLexx
12-27-2017, 02:59 PM
I used to use Amapi back in the day too. It was impressive and ahead of it's time in many regards. Since then many quite good modelers have come and gone (Hexagon, etc...) ... although Silo3d looks like new life is being breathed back into it. By far my favorite modeler for a zen-like work flow. Nvil and Rocket3d being spiritual successors.

Hexagon "2018" is in beta (https://www.daz3d.com/hexagon-beta)and will shortly release (https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/3087346/)free of charge.

raymondtrace
12-27-2017, 03:05 PM
...selected all and pasted back to notepad...

That is a risky operation as "notepad" (assuming Windows Notepad) is awkward with character encodings and line endings (\r \n). Notepad can mangle scripts.

It's better to choose "raw" from Github and then use the browser's file->save function. You can also download the master with everything packed inside: https://github.com/heimlich1024/OD_CopyPasteExternal/archive/master.zip

prometheus
12-27-2017, 03:10 PM
That is a risky operation as "notepad" (assuming Windows Notepad) is awkward with character encodings and line endings (\r \n). Notepad can mangle scripts.

It's better to choose "raw" from Github and then use the browser's file->save function. You can also download the master with everything packed inside: https://github.com/heimlich1024/OD_CopyPasteExternal/archive/master.zip

That may be as it is, but it worked anyway...at least for getting it in to lightwave and working. and the master I tried, but the scripts in there did Not work when installing in lightwave..thus I copied the raw format and pasted in to notepad, it worked this time anyway:)

- - - Updated - - -


Works for me in 2.79.

One workaround if you get it to work in 2.78 is to copy the settings from 2.78 to 2.79. Its a folder somewhere (can’t recall where, try google)with many files and even all the addons.

Thanks..but geez ..what a goof of workarounds..copying the 2.78 settings and then also google search around..not nowing how much time that takes till I find it, must be simpler than that I would ..Wish.
Good to know you said it worked in 2.79 though, can you by any chance provide those py for blender somewhere, or post it to me?

prometheus
12-27-2017, 03:24 PM
Never mind Ztreem, I solved it, opened the py for blender from github as raw, saved the page as is with py extension and placed the files in blenders/python folder, installed from file, and this time it worked in 2.79.
So great, now itīs a breeze to add my own ANT preset landscapes and copy and paste in to Lightwave if I need too.
Sorry for the topic De-rail, but these tools are valuable for us all, regardless of app me thinks.

samurai_x
12-27-2017, 09:19 PM
Well not dumb. Maybe misguided.

Nah he's dumb. There is no way the lightwave split is the same as using Maya and Marvelous designer as he says. He clearly doesn't know a unified 3d app.
You don't really see companies splitting the mesh core component from its main dcc to be like lightwave with its limitation. That would be the dumbest move for autodesk, maxon, etc.