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c.1
12-22-2017, 08:15 PM
So I have this great idea for a LW 2018 promo sale for Newtek....here is the pitch.

“To thank all of our loyal customers that have stuck with us through the years, and to start the next chapter of LW on a positive note, we will be having a one day only upgrade sale.
On Jan 1st 2018 will will upgrade any version of LW to LW 2018 for the one time price of $201.80 usd”

This I believe will prompt many to upgrade to LW 2018 right away as there is really no incentive to do it right away and I think many would wait until March and see what others think about LW 2018 before they buy.

This also would get LW 2018 into the hands of some early adopters and allow Newtek to build some ‘ buzz’
regarding the LW 2018 release.

Anyways just an idea, but I think it has potential for some positive feedback at a minimal cost.

Just my 2 cents.

Nicolas Jordan
12-22-2017, 08:23 PM
It would probably get a few more people to upgrade put I don't know if enough users would upgrade to make up for the discount.

c.1
12-22-2017, 08:35 PM
I don’t think it would really make up for the discount, and really that wouldn’t be the goal, , but it may prompt people to pull the trigger rather than wait and see.
It would suck if Newtek drops LW 2018 and everyone just sits on their hands waiting to see what everyone thinks before they buy. Or worse just nothing, crickets chipping.........

jperk
12-22-2017, 08:37 PM
I'm an early adopter and I'm perfectly fine with the $295 usd. Very affordable.

gar26lw
12-22-2017, 08:37 PM
the current price is good, if lower for a day, why not 100, or 50, or free for modo owners?

c.1
12-22-2017, 08:48 PM
I have to admit that $295 is a good price, I am just spit balling an idea to create a little immediacy in the purchase decision

sami
12-22-2017, 10:02 PM
Great promotion idea! Only it should be $20.18 to really match the year (and suffering we've had) ;)

Paul_Boland
12-22-2017, 10:49 PM
Great promotion idea! Only it should be $20.18 to really match the year (and suffering we've had) ;)

That would be great, I could afford that on day one ;).

willin
12-23-2017, 12:04 AM
Great promotion idea! Only it should be $20.18 to really match the year (and suffering we've had) ;)

If they really match the year it would be $2018.00.

Chris S. (Fez)
12-23-2017, 12:49 AM
$295 is more than fair and supports future development.

gar26lw
12-23-2017, 01:42 AM
perhaps it should be tied to how much whining has been done? the more ticked off you were/are, the cheaper it is? ;)

i think hrgiger should get a free copy but only if he signs something stating he renounces modo and vows to only worship the one true god. :p

Marander
12-23-2017, 02:44 AM
I'm an early adopter and I'm perfectly fine with the $295 usd. Very affordable.

You are in a different position because you upgrade from 2015 Edu to 2018 full commercial, so basically you buy a full version for $495 or so. LW really got cheap but actually it's currently not worth more than $500 full price in my opinion anyway.

Edit: to justify the last phrase, this is in my opinion because it still requires many 3rd party plugins to cover base functionality and it still lacks alot even then.

gar26lw
12-23-2017, 05:38 AM
You are in a different position because you upgrade from 2015 Edu to 2018 full commercial, so basically you buy a full version for $495 or so. LW really got cheap but actually it's currently not worth more than $500 full price in my opinion anyway.

Edit: to justify the last phrase, this is in my opinion because it still requires many 3rd party plugins to cover base functionality and it still lacks alot even then.

yeah, the amount i am going to have to spend in upgrades to plugins plus additional plugins makes it way less competitive compared to other apps version upgrades with no plugins required. this is something the lw team needs to address, imho

djwaterman
12-23-2017, 06:13 AM
So I have this great idea for a LW 2018 promo sale for Newtek....here is the pitch.

“To thank all of our loyal customers that have stuck with us through the years, and to start the next chapter of LW on a positive note, we will be having a one day only upgrade sale.
On Jan 1st 2018 will will upgrade any version of LW to LW 2018 for the one time price of $201.80 usd”

This I believe will prompt many to upgrade to LW 2018 right away as there is really no incentive to do it right away and I think many would wait until March and see what others think about LW 2018 before they buy.

This also would get LW 2018 into the hands of some early adopters and allow Newtek to build some ‘ buzz’
regarding the LW 2018 release.

Anyways just an idea, but I think it has potential for some positive feedback at a minimal cost.

Just my 2 cents.

Response- We love it, in fact we're rolling it out on Jan 1st, except in Canada, where you get to purchase for the special price of $2018, because it's the year right? Just a fun twist, anyway, thanks for the great idea.

Marander
12-23-2017, 07:13 AM
So I have this great idea for a LW 2018 promo sale for Newtek....here is the pitch.

“To thank all of our loyal customers that have stuck with us through the years, and to start the next chapter of LW on a positive note, we will be having a one day only upgrade sale.
On Jan 1st 2018 will will upgrade any version of LW to LW 2018 for the one time price of $201.80 usd”



I find this a good and funny idea!

If they would do this for CURRENT 2015 users for 24h or as a preorder as compensation that now pre 2015 and Edu users can upgrade to 2018 for $295, LWD3G I'm in.

TheLexx
12-23-2017, 07:40 AM
Also, a chunk of people would expect the same giveaway price at every half-baked anniversary or public holiday on the basis of "Well you did it before", and for subsequent versions too. I think the $295 should be appreciated for what it is, followed by a stiff hike afterwards, perhaps setting the tone for more consistent development/releases, etc.

jperk
12-23-2017, 08:02 AM
You are in a different position because you upgrade from 2015 Edu to 2018 full commercial, so basically you buy a full version for $495 or so. LW really got cheap but actually it's currently not worth more than $500 full price in my opinion anyway.


LW2018 was announced the week I graduated so I'm sort of treating the upgrade as a grad discount/ gift for myself. The Foundry officially has a grad deal for Modo commercial where grads can purchase it for $500.

So really paying $495 as a graduated student is no different to The Foundry's Modo grad discount.

I think I lucked out mostly by being a student and buying LW2015 at the right time. If I waited until after I graduated I'd of missed out on this deal.

Marander
12-23-2017, 08:03 AM
Also, a chunk of people would expect the same giveaway price at every half-baked anniversary or public holiday on the basis of "Well you did it before", and for subsequent versions too. I think the $295 should be appreciated for what it is, followed by a stiff hike afterwards, perhaps setting the tone for more consistent development/releases, etc.

I understand what you mean, Iwould see it as a one off compensation for the ones tricked into the 2015 upgrade in order to be current.

c.1
12-23-2017, 10:31 AM
I find this a good and funny idea!

If they would do this for CURRENT 2015 users for 24h or as a preorder as compensation that now pre 2015 and Edu users can upgrade to 2018 for $295, LWD3G I'm in.

Nice!

I just thought of the tag line:

“2018 for $201.80”

sami
12-23-2017, 09:23 PM
$295 is more than fair and supports future development.

How do you know it supports future development?? We have no idea how big the dev team is, nor if they are full or part time, nor how many these would sell, nor what their costs are and how much profit this would bring. They've told us nothing, so saying this price will lead to new development (and imply that better features are coming because of this price) is absurd.

Chris S. (Fez)
12-24-2017, 02:43 AM
They've told us nothing, so saying this price will lead to new development (and imply that better features are coming because of this price) is absurd.

It is absurd to complain about a $295 upgrade no matter how large the team. Are you aware of the upgrade or subscription costs of competing programs? Are you aware that Autodesk has dramatically increased maintenance costs for legacy license holders and forced subscription on new users? Are you aware that as of 2018 Max and Maya have no free native network rendering solutions? LW 2018 includes a revamped renderer with unlimited nodes and refined network management. That alone is a tremendous value at $295.

I know of at least 5 active LW developers who have commented recently here or on Facebook. With Lightwave's dwindling user base $295 is low even if it were just paying a living wage for those 5, not to mention covering the cost of marketing.

You want Lightwave to survive and for development to continue at a steady pace? You want to see Lightwave advertisements online again? Then Lightwavers need to be willing to pay a fair, sustainable price.

NewTek is running a business. Lightwave can't leech off Newtek's video sales forever. Lightwave must be able to ultimately support itself.

If you don't feel LW 2018 has value enough to justify $295 then go use Blender or pay a premium for C4D, Max or Maya. Foundry licensing is not as nice as Lightwave but Modo costs are relatively reasonable compared to those other programs.

Lightwave can be fairly criticized in many areas but the pricing model is more than fair in my opinion.

hrgiger
12-24-2017, 10:53 AM
295 isn't cheap enough for everyone? I would say its time to find a new hobby or profession if that's the case. Lightwave isn't likely making them a profit as it is and you want to make it cheaper? Time for Blender for some users I guess.

c.1
12-24-2017, 11:30 AM
295 isn't cheap enough for everyone?


It’s not about making LW cheaper (I think $295 is a wicked deal)
It’s just an idea for a one day promotion sale, a discount of $93.20 is not a huge amount but it may be enough to provide a push for some to pull the trigger and buy on day one.

When Hurley or 3rdPowers has a limited pre release sale, it’s not about making their product cheaper its about “promoting”
the product, maybe getting a quick and early bump in sales.

TheLexx
12-24-2017, 11:55 AM
When Hurley or 3rdPowers has a limited pre release sale, it’s not about making their product cheaper its about “promoting”
the product, maybe getting a quick and early bump in sales.I understand, but surely $295 represents exactly that. After the silence, NT couldn't exactly say "Hey, LW2018 is finally coming out so either put up or shut up" but they now have to shift as many as possible and quickly, so the $295 is the politest way of saying that I have ever seen.

Apologies to you because I was originally a bit slow to get the joke about matching the year. But it's a bit like me going on a 4D forum and saying "C'mon Maxon, twentieth anniversary coming up - "celebrate" by letting me have 4D Studio for $201.80, or you can make it 201.80 in UK pounds because I'm feeling generous :D)".

c.1
12-24-2017, 01:05 PM
I really do get what you guys are saying, and I know I will be paying the great price of $295 to upgrade to LW 2018, that was never in question, I have paid more for past upgrades, it is a matter of when not if.

But I just came across a perfect example of what I was trying to get across.

Corel painter is a very good natural media painting program, I own a few versions.
Corel every once in a while will send me an upgrade offer of hundreds of dollars off the regular upgrade price, I am looking at one right now for $150 off the regular upgrade price plus a bonus.......I will probably pull the trigger on this one as it is a killer deal.
Limited time offer+great price=me buying
And we can all agree (I think) that marketing and promotion of LW in the last few years has been a little.....lets say “under the radar”

Anyways just an idea (I know it won’t happen)

Cheers all Merry Christmas!

Marander
12-24-2017, 01:59 PM
I understand, but surely $295 represents exactly that. After the silence, NT couldn't exactly say "Hey, LW2018 is finally coming out so either put up or shut up" but they now have to shift as many as possible and quickly, so the $295 is the politest way of saying that I have ever seen.

Apologies to you because I was originally a bit slow to get the joke about matching the year. But it's a bit like me going on a 4D forum and saying "C'mon Maxon, twentieth anniversary coming up - "celebrate" by letting me have 4D Studio for $201.80, or you can make it 201.80 in UK pounds because I'm feeling generous :D)".

Difference is Maxon sticks to their promotions and schedule. They don't say you have to upgrade now to get it cheaper but change their mind later. That's NewTek.

I had no problem buying C4D Studio + various plugins and renderers and I don't mind paying $625 for the maintenance every year even as a hobbyist. I'm looking forward to get the R20 in September 2018 which I already have paid for with the maintenance. Maxon does only few promotions (like 30% at their 30th anniversary) for 24 hours or now 25% Christmas sale but they stick to their marketing campaigns. They don't make their product look cheap with constant fake sales.

Correct, $295 is cheap. For me it's about the principle and sticking to the word. I'm not gonna pay the same price for LW2018 as users that are not current, at least not until end of March. I payed $395 for the 2015 upgrade only to be current which was the last chance according to them. However the way it looks LW 2018 doesn't offer me anything interesting at the current state, so I will save the money now instead.

However Merry Christmas everyone!

Chris S. (Fez)
12-24-2017, 02:07 PM
However the way it looks LW 2018 doesn't offer me anything interesting at the current state, so I will save the money instead!

At least try the free trial before making a decision. Nothing to lose but an hour or two of testing. 2018 might surprise you.

Marander
12-24-2017, 02:15 PM
At least try the free trial before making a decision. Nothing to lose but an hour or two of testing. 2018 might surprise you.

Yes I definitely will test the demo and spend enough time with it to build a fair conclusion. Cheers!

TheLexx
12-24-2017, 02:28 PM
@ Marander, of course there is lattitude for philisophy and opinion on this, and I actually consider Cinema 4D Studio is extremely reasonable even at full price, but it is partly by this yardstick I think LW2018 is already a giveaway price, regardless of NT past circumstances, though obviously I can't go around spending other people's money for them. My own view is NT have humbly and sincerely apologised more than once, and also "put their money where their silent mouth was" by virtue of the $295 deal. I'll close there to stop rattling on about it. :)

One thing we all seem agreed on though - Merry Christmas! Have a fantastic 2018 everyone. :)

rustythe1
12-24-2017, 02:28 PM
It is absurd to complain about a $295 upgrade no matter how large the team. Are you aware of the upgrade or subscription costs of competing programs? Are you aware that Autodesk has dramatically increased maintenance costs for legacy license holders and forced subscription on new users? Are you aware that as of 2018 Max and Maya have no free native network rendering solutions? LW 2018 includes a revamped renderer with unlimited nodes and refined network management. That alone is a tremendous value at $295.

indeed, many of the commercial plugins cost more than this each on their own

hrgiger
12-24-2017, 05:56 PM
It’s not about making LW cheaper (I think $295 is a wicked deal)
It’s just an idea for a one day promotion sale, a discount of $93.20 is not a huge amount but it may be enough to provide a push for some to pull the trigger and buy on day one.

When Hurley or 3rdPowers has a limited pre release sale, it’s not about making their product cheaper its about “promoting”
the product, maybe getting a quick and early bump in sales.

Problem is, theyve already shot themselves in the foot with a 295 price, especially at the frequency they put ow lw updates. I dont think they want to lose even more money.

MichaelT
12-24-2017, 07:41 PM
$295 for a few months is good enough. They are a business after all. There is no need for this "race to the bottom" kind of stuff.

Marander
12-25-2017, 03:00 AM
Problem is, theyve already shot themselves in the foot with a 295 price, especially at the frequency they put ow lw updates. I dont think they want to lose even more money.

Yes true. It would have been better $395 as introduction upgrade price, $295 for current users as promised and then afterwards something like $495 for upgrades from older versions. I would have upgraded. Nobody is going for the price they set to $795 for an upgrade. It shows to me how little the whole thing was planned and how their marketing / sales has not changed, there's still no trust from my side, sorry NewTek.

pmwhite
12-25-2017, 04:23 AM
$295 for a few months is good enough. They are a business after all. There is no need for this "race to the bottom" kind of stuff.

I agree, $295 is a generous offer from Newtek. They need revenue to keep this project running. Less than this would be unsustainable.

sadkkf
12-25-2017, 09:24 AM
I agree, $295 is a generous offer from Newtek. They need revenue to keep this project running. Less than this would be unsustainable.

Exactly. If we all love LW and want it to flourish, we need to support it. If the upgrade window is a little narrower, that seems fair enough. Greater good and all that.

fablefox
12-26-2017, 12:32 AM
$295 for a few months is good enough. They are a business after all. There is no need for this "race to the bottom" kind of stuff.

You are correct.

But the elephant in the room is Blender.

I think even LW understand, the state the modeller is in, so on and so forth, they have to accept the price users are willing to pay. As Blender went through more germenization (sp?), what users realized what they can get for free is increasing.

c.1
12-26-2017, 06:04 PM
But the elephant in the room is Blender.


Yup, and Blender 2.8 with Eevee is set for 2018 release. (I don’t thonk the 2.8 beta release is 100% stable atm)