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Asticles
12-20-2017, 11:59 PM
Hello everyone, since we are discussing of new improvements, the road to continue with the development, etc. I thought that we should open a thread about what improvements should have the Modeler. In this case I would like to propose to discuss the convenience of unifying and reducing the modeling tools, simplifying the interface and doing tools more versatile and powerful.

For example attach the cutting tools in a single one. The same with the extrusion or bevel tools.

Look at 3f rocket modeler, less tools. More user friendly.

Thanks

gar26lw
12-21-2017, 12:08 AM
very brave of you
https://i2.wp.com/gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/tina-fey-amy-poehler-popcorn-golden-globes-2014.gif?ssl=1

jeric_synergy
12-21-2017, 12:10 AM
Seems pointless to me. Maybe after 1/1.

Asticles
12-21-2017, 12:15 AM
Xd

I would start with an unified snapping, that would use all the other tools.
Keep in mind sketchup started almost with only a cut and a extrude tool.

Also, as a start we should have new move, rotation, scale tools. What is this about different tools when scaling uniform or in one direction?

- - - Updated - - -


Seems pointless to me. Maybe after 1/1.

Why not talking now?

gar26lw
12-21-2017, 12:18 AM
i’d like
pictrix snap transform tools in. especially as x32 is dead and pictrix is dead too.

Asticles
12-21-2017, 12:33 AM
Do you have examples of usability? Yes. Snapping is one of the most important feature to get a modern set of tools.

Although I like LWCAD snapping, I prefer blender system, where you can constraint in one xyz global or local axis by hitting the corresponding key.

Axis translate tool snapping seems good to me, very intuitive. I expect they have solved the precision bug.

samurai_x
12-21-2017, 01:00 AM
You guys aren't new to lightwave right?
No significant updates to modeler since lightwave 7.
Not going to happen next year or the future.

hrgiger
12-21-2017, 01:09 AM
I was given a screen shot of Modeler future.

138924

Asticles
12-21-2017, 01:17 AM
Trolling aside, we simply must hope for the best. Also sometimes the developers listen ...

So, if you don't have anything better than this, please don't disturb.

hrgiger
12-21-2017, 01:30 AM
Its really not a matter of trolling. Its just some of us have asked, pleaded, begged for modeler changes for going on two decades. Sometimes you just get tired of asking or hoping.

Plus, we really don't know now what the plan is for modeler, especially with the recent outing of Rob Powers. If you went by his words, you would think that the plan was to move modeling into Layout and thus, not much point of fixing or significantly developing Modeler.

gar26lw
12-21-2017, 01:37 AM
Its really not a matter of trolling. Its just some of us have asked, pleaded, begged for modeler changes for going on two decades. Sometimes you just get tired of asking or hoping.

Plus, we really don't know now what the plan is for modeler, especially with the recent outing of Rob Powers. If you went by his words, you would think that the plan was to move modeling into Layout and thus, not much point of fixing or significantly developing Modeler.

and how’s that ignoring of current 2015 been going prior to 2018 release? exactly.
need to support modeller, add features and fix bugs. imho.

hrgiger
12-21-2017, 01:41 AM
and how’s that ignoring of current 2015 been going prior to 2018 release? exactly.


Sorry its a little early in the morning here, not sure what you're asking here.

Asticles
12-21-2017, 01:47 AM
Let's be positive and try to make our best efforts.

It could be interesting to have a shared chart of actions suggested to modeler development. Does anyone has a suggestion?

gar26lw
12-21-2017, 01:51 AM
Sorry its a little early in the morning here, not sure what you're asking here.

oh, well i’m just pointing out that the lack of and support or bug fixes for modeller alongside the silence didn’t help anything, especially when combined with what you mentioned about pleading and begging for changes over the years.
we all know this already but just pointing it out one last time.

Asticles
12-21-2017, 01:51 AM
I suggest a doodle.

hrgiger
12-21-2017, 01:53 AM
Some recent feature requests were made that were moved into their own thread here : http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155351-LW-2018-Feature-requests

Asticles
12-21-2017, 01:55 AM
Great, but we should separate by categories and have the possibility to vote

gar26lw
12-21-2017, 01:56 AM
I suggest a doodle.

a doodle? do you mean a drawing?

i think some mockups of what we would like to see, with notes on functionality would be good.

tyrot
12-21-2017, 02:02 AM
just write an automatic converter for all 32 bit plugins into 64 bit .. i am done :) that is enough for me

Asticles
12-21-2017, 02:05 AM
a doodle? do you mean a drawing?

i think some mockups of what we would like to see, with notes on functionality would be good.

https://doodle.com/es/

CruiserMori
12-21-2017, 02:08 AM
Buy LWCad as it has almost all missing modeler functionality.
What do you expect from the modeler roadmap???

Asticles
12-21-2017, 02:11 AM
Not to have to buy another software, specially for newcomers.

gar26lw
12-21-2017, 02:18 AM
Buy LWCad as it has almost all missing modeler functionality.
What do you expect from the modeler roadmap???

respectfully, no, it doesn’t

- - - Updated - - -


just write an automatic converter for all 32 bit plugins into 64 bit .. i am done :) that is enough for me

that would do it, for me, anyway.

Asticles
12-21-2017, 02:21 AM
Yes, but Lightwave should be attractive for new users, why choose Lw to model if they have other packages? This is the start question.
Modeler should be improved as a must. IMHO

UnCommonGrafx
12-21-2017, 04:44 AM
Has this crowd seen the vid they put out for modeler?

...

There seems to be a premise in all these threads that there is some kind of democratic event or occurrence by the people who run LW that is to transpire based on the passion of text expressed. You know, telling them how they should be running their business.

I haven't seen this work, yet. Lots of head banging around here. Amazing psychological phenomena to watch.


:stumped:

Robert

AnimeJoex
12-21-2017, 06:02 AM
Add some Basic animation features to modeler so that you can do some stuff there that you can't do so easily in Layout.

Layout would still handle the vast majority of the animations.

Jake
12-21-2017, 06:34 AM
ZBrush core is around $150. Full is $800. 3d Coat around $350. LWCad around $350. And I'm sure there are a lot of other examples out there.

A full license of Lightwave is $1k. So you could buy LW AND a good, current modeling suite that is tailored specifically to what you want to do and still be on a par with other major animation packages in terms of pricing.

I'm not against updating modeler, particularly with regard to performance, but it just doesn't make sense at this price point, and with all of the great, affordable options available on the market, for Newtek to commit to bringing modeler into the current scene. I don't think it would make LW any more competitive with the other big packages because people using those packages ALSO use a lot of 3rd party software. They have better native tools than LW modeler and they still use external packages for sculpting, texturing, etc.

If you're a beginner and/or strapped for cash, LW modeler is like a pencil. You can do stuff with it--you can make characters, objects, scenes, etc. Or you can use free software like Sketchup. But for modeler to be a selling point for pros--it would have to be pretty damn good. I think, all things considered, that this would be a bad strategy for the company. Instead, let them focus on making Layout competitive--improve CA tools, give it the modeling tools it lacks, better undo, etc. and cede the modeling improvement to outside developers. Make the sdk easier to work with and maybe offer more tie in promotions with things like LWCad.

Asticles
12-21-2017, 08:21 AM
Well, thanks a lot for all your comments, but the spirit of this thread is to guide developers and discuss what could be the roadmap of modeler. Not if we should stop Modeler's development. This is not our decision.

We started to talk about snapping and someone pointed out animation. Could be this about seeing morph animations?
It could be you can play walk cycles or certain movement only to tweak weights or materials.

gar26lw
12-21-2017, 08:35 AM
ok, i’ll start but saying the features i would like to see in modeller first.

1. pictrix reSize. it’s brilliant for fast scaling with pivot point manipulation and snapping built in. it’s only x32. i think it should be part of the standard install.
2. discontinuous uv bugs fixed, so no more requirement to unweld points to do simple uv edits. this is a very very very old bug.
3. snapping in multi shift. respecting units set in options, like normal bevel tool does.
4. a decent replacement for rounder that bevels anything, with optional rounding.
5. correction to the bend tool, so that bending is easy in any viewport and not only usable in one axis.
more to come..

Asticles
12-21-2017, 08:39 AM
I will write the concepts in a PDF and post it on the first post.
I suppose the better explained, or illustrated, will help more.

Thanks

Asticles
12-21-2017, 08:45 AM
ok, i’ll start but saying the features i would like to see in modeller first.

1. pictrix reSize. it’s brilliant for fast scaling with pivot point manipulation and snapping built in. it’s only x32. i think it should be part of the standard install.
2. discontinuous uv bugs fixed, so no more requirement to unweld points to do simple uv edits. this is a very very very old bug.
3. snapping in multi shift. respecting units set in options, like normal bevel tool does.
4. a decent replacement for rounder that bevels anything, with optional rounding.
5. correction to the bend tool, so that bending is easy in any viewport and not only usable in one axis.
more to come..

Thanks gar26lw.

1. Can we attach the plugin so if anyone wants to check it can use it?
2.I agree, UV section is really obscure.
3.I would create a global snapping than can be accessed from any command.
4.yes, a Bevel tool like blender or cinema, that can do chamfers or fillets.
5.The bend tool could be like the new deformation tools, more interactive and with multiple options?

Asticles
12-21-2017, 08:56 AM
I will also make an standard notation for the concepts.

Scope -Action Concept no

Scope:
G - General (Whole Lightwave)
M - Modeler
L - Layout

Action:
A. - Addition : Add any feature to existing ones
N - New : Add a completely new feature
B - Bug: Explains by itself
S - suppression: A feature that should be removed
M - Merge - Merge two or more features
D - Divide - Split a current feature.

So everyone can talk about a past one.

M-D-001

For example. Sorry I'm writing with the phone.

What do you think?

Morgan Nilsson
12-21-2017, 12:15 PM
I will also make an standard notation for the concepts.

Scope -Action Concept no

Scope:
G - General (Whole Lightwave)
M - Modeler
L - Layout

Action:
A. - Addition : Add any feature to existing ones
N - New : Add a completely new feature
B - Bug: Explains by itself
S - suppression: A feature that should be removed
M - Merge - Merge two or more features
D - Divide - Split a current feature.

So everyone can talk about a past one.

M-D-001

For example. Sorry I'm writing with the phone.

What do you think?

Sounds good to me!

gar26lw
12-22-2017, 12:07 AM
Thanks gar26lw.

1. Can we attach the plugin so if anyone wants to check it can use it?


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DztR8Y6OgHk

http://www.pictrix.jp/lw/ReSize/index.html

Asticles
12-22-2017, 12:10 AM
Thanks! Asap I will merge everything. Yesterday I was installing windows at home and didn't have time.

Asticles
12-22-2017, 01:48 AM
Hmm, I cannot edit first post. Can any forum moderator help me with that?

Thanks

Here is what I have so far:

138937

First time I've used Latex. Formatting will change, I suppose.

Asticles
12-22-2017, 05:02 AM
SBowie, do you know how can I modify the first post to update it??

Thanks

SBowie
12-22-2017, 05:23 AM
SBowie, do you know how can I modify the first post to update it?? ThanksSorry, the forum is not configured to allow editing posts beyond a certain time limit. It's not my policy and I don't like it, but I do agree with it. It would be lovely if it were not necessary, but when it was permitted, too many people misused the privilege for unethical purposes.

Asticles
12-22-2017, 09:56 AM
Ok. Thanks for the response.

Ernest
12-22-2017, 01:12 PM
I don't think that we deserve a roadmap. I don't even want a full roadmap, per se. But there are three ways in which modeling development in LW could go and it would be very, very useful for users to know which of the three paths Newtek was planning to follow. Because, as I see it, the only options are:

A) Modeler will see very little development and modeling tools and workflows will be added to Layout as quickly as possible.
B) Modeler will also get the new mesh engine and tool improvements, and Layout will get only some modeling tools over a period of time.
C) Modeler will not see much development and Layout will focus on great but not modeling-oriented improvements for the next 2 or 3 cycles.

I'm sure that Newtek can see how much practical benefit Lightwave users could get from knowing which of the three general paths was the one that development was planning to follow.

erikals
12-22-2017, 05:00 PM
like mentioned elsewhere, if the Roadmap fails, the downfall will hurt NT, hence why we won't see much of that.

if NT presents something, it will be rather vague, to play safe.

i think we have no other choice but to wait years and see how they went about it.


that's all i have to say about that.
(unsubscribing)