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jboudreau
12-17-2017, 03:04 PM
Hi, what about modeling performance ? Now I have Modo and performance is terrible, Take a look(simple cube subdivided 6 times-about 24k polygons) :

Modo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q7O0dvkuuU

and Blender(cube subdivided 6 times): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puTA2RVDHNE

I'm using a lot off cut tool(it is a basic tool for modeling) and in Modo after about 24k polygons cut tool is really painful.

Here is a video with 1.8 million polygon model editing edges etc.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiXSYjYd_1g

Hope this helps

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 03:06 PM
Here is a video tumbling around a 4.3 million polygon object


https://youtu.be/XekUIIFdiDk

Wickedpup
12-17-2017, 03:21 PM
Now animate those polys.......:hey:

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 03:40 PM
Now animate those polys.......:hey:

why would you want to animate a 4.3 million polygon objects polygons? lol

Wickedpup
12-17-2017, 03:46 PM
1 poly...6 polys......4.3 millions.....does not make much of a difference, does it? ;)

pinkmouse
12-17-2017, 04:15 PM
why would you want to animate a 4.3 million polygon objects polygons? lol

Because you can? :D

silviotoledo
12-17-2017, 04:46 PM
why would you want to animate a 4.3 million polygon objects polygons? lol

In our film here our characters have around 4 million polys plus fiber fx hair with 60 nodes ( long hair ) and 5 k fibers. We have some scenes with up to 6 characters together and when you add bone deform this performance goes down. A real test is doing a character with hair, bones and cloth on layout :).

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 05:15 PM
In our film here our characters have around 4 million polys plus fiber fx hair with 60 nodes ( long hair ) and 5 k fibers. We have some scenes with up to 6 characters together and when you add bone deform this performance goes down. A real test is doing a character with hair, bones and cloth on layout :).

This was in Modeler not layout, In layout I can handle 600 million polygons and still navigate the scene pretty good.

If you scrub toward the end of the video you will see the performance in layout


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zDFeD7z4rQ&t=3s

Thanks,
Jason

Wickedpup
12-17-2017, 05:29 PM
This was in Modeler
And that was my point......like I said, numbers of polys is irrelevant, now animate some of them.....

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 05:33 PM
And that was my point......like I said, numbers of polys is irrelevant, now animate some of them.....

Are you serious you want me to show a video of me animating points in layout? All I would have to do is use an endo morph lol. I'm kidding I know what you are saying, yes this is where the separate apps fall short.

samurai_x
12-17-2017, 07:51 PM
Here is a video with 1.8 million polygon model editing edges etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiXSYjYd_1g

Hope this helps

You're not even comparing the same thing. Aren't you just sliding edges?
The reason his video showed a slight slowdown was when he turned on round curvature for edge bevel, which we don't even have in modeler natively. I wouldn't use that on a densely packed mesh. i would use it for subd models that needs to keep a smooth curvature when turning on subd.

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 08:00 PM
You're not even comparing the same thing. Aren't you just sliding edges?
The reason his video showed a slight slowdown was when he turned on round curvature for edge bevel, which we don't even have in modeler natively. I wouldn't use that on a densely packed mesh. i would use it for subd models that needs to keep a smooth curvature when turning on subd.

Yes that might be true but try doing what I did with 1.8 Million polygons in MODO you will get quite a surprise.

Wickedpup
12-17-2017, 08:12 PM
Are you serious you want me to show a video of me animating points in layout?
Did I mention Layout? I thought you were running a comparison in Modeler. So now animate....
(Samurai X was right in one thing. You are not comparing the same thing)

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 08:14 PM
Did I mention Layout? I thought you were running a comparison in Modeler. So now animate....
(Samurai X was right in one thing. You are not comparing the same thing)

Yes I am comparing modeler. You said animate so I assumed layout because we can't animate in modeler.

So you want me to show you a video of me moving points in modeler?

samurai_x
12-17-2017, 08:22 PM
Yes that might be true but try doing what I did with 1.8 Million polygons in MODO you will get quite a surprise.

What was your method to reach 1.8 million polys in modeler? Subdivide metaform a cube primitive?

After 6 repetitions of subd metaform at 98k polys, the next one took ages in modeler to get 393k. Crashed when I tried to do another. Lw 2015 64bit.
In modo it took a few seconds to reach 7 repetitions of subdivide to get 393k. Another subdivide got me 1572864 polys. Performance dropped as expected.

So how did you get 1.8 million polys in modeler? :D

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 08:26 PM
What was your method to reach 1.8 million polys in modeler? Subdivide metaform a cube primitive?

After 6 repetitions of subd metaform at 98k polys, the next one took ages in modeler to get 393k. Crashed when I tried to do another. Lw 2015 64bit.
In modo it took a few seconds to reach 7 repetitions of subdivide to get 393k. Another subdivide got me 1572864 polys. Performance dropped as expected.

So how did you get 1.8 million polys in modeler? :D

It probably crashed because what was your sub division count set to in your options panel in modeler. I just set it to 3 and made a ball and used sub d a few time freezing it as I went. No crash. I can go up to 5.6 million with no issues at all.

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 08:29 PM
Here is an apple's to apples comparison of Lightwave Cloning vs MODO Cloning. MODO was not able to finish the last clone off all the objects it ran for 15min before it finally crashed. I have the full video but it's almost 20min long

Modo Cloning Video using the 1.5 million polygon Mammoth model


https://youtu.be/m5bjwt5A5HM

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 08:34 PM
There is just no comparison. What I could do in less than 2 minutes. MODO was not able to finish the last clone it ran for 15min before it finally crashed. Lightwave was 8x faster. I did the same thing in 3dsmax and it did just as well as lightwave if not a tad bit better. But MODO not even close to any of them.

Lightwave Cloning Video using the 1.5 million polygon Mammoth model


https://youtu.be/-FbbDZ_Bw0Q

Thanks,
Jason

samurai_x
12-17-2017, 08:46 PM
I"m not using subd and freezing method. I'm tessellating a cube into a sphere by using subdivision metaform to get raw polygons.

Its good you can reach 1.8m polys in modeler with no lag. I can only do it in modo. We are talking about modeler right?



Sliding edges in modo did surprise me at 1.5m. It was still working fast.


Your videos don't make sense. You're comparing layout that has no awareness of points, edges, polys to modo's real mesh engine?

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 08:47 PM
What was your method to reach 1.8 million polys in modeler? Subdivide metaform a cube primitive?

After 6 repetitions of subd metaform at 98k polys, the next one took ages in modeler to get 393k. Crashed when I tried to do another. Lw 2015 64bit.
In modo it took a few seconds to reach 7 repetitions of subdivide to get 393k. Another subdivide got me 1572864 polys. Performance dropped as expected.

So how did you get 1.8 million polys in modeler? :D

Here is a video of me doing 5.6 Million Polygon Object


https://youtu.be/iy8Rymomyno

Thanks,
Jason

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 08:52 PM
I"m not using subd and freezing method. I'm tessellating a cube into a sphere by using subdivision metaform to get raw polygons.

Its good you can reach 1.8m polys in modeler with no lag. I can only do it in modo. We are talking about modeler right?



Sliding edges in modo did surprise me at 1.5m. It was still working fast.


Your videos don't make sense. You're comparing layout that has no awareness of points, edges, polys to modo's real mesh engine?

I reached 5.6 Million Polygons

Yeah that method is slow and using SubD and freezing is so much faster

How does the videos not make sense, If you notice I am using the item mode in modo to do the cloning. Same thing that layout uses. I never cloned polygons, points or edges it was in item mode. I did the same thing in 3dsmax which is a real mesh engine and is aware of points polygons and edges and
it cloned them a tad bit faster than Lighwave (but not by much) but it to also blew modo out of the water.

Maybe they fixed something in Version 11.2 but I only have 10.2 so that might be the difference. As for the edges in MODO I used the edge slide tool in MODO and in 10.2 it couldn't even do it on a 100,000 polygon mesh. So not sure what tool you are using

Why not show videos, I'd love to see what I'm doing wrong

Thanks,
Jason

samurai_x
12-17-2017, 09:01 PM
I tried your method to end up with a cube that is not so round. More like rounded cube.
I did get to 3m frozen polys before reaching the bottleneck for modeler in my system. Laptop btw.
I guess sudivide metaform is using very old and slow code that would crash.
Modo on the other hand can reach millions more with multires. Sculpting fine detail is doable ala zbrush.

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 09:06 PM
I tried your method to end up with a cube that is not so round. More like rounded cube.
I did get to 3m frozen polys before reaching the bottleneck for modeler in my system. Laptop btw.
I guess sudivide metaform is using very old and slow code that would crash.
Modo on the other hand can reach millions more with multires. Sculpting fine detail is doable ala zbrush.

Laptop here too

Yeah I think the subdivide metaform method is using old code. Because if you use the meta form method once you see the bar at the bottom of the screen go across just hit the esc key it will stop the subdivide but will actually keep what it already started to subdivide. You can see it if you have the statistics panel open at the same time. It's interesting.

Yeah but have you tried the clone or duplicate command in modo. It shouldn't be that slow something is seriously wrong there unless like I said it's been fixed in 11.2 which I don't have at the moment

Thanks,
Jason

samurai_x
12-17-2017, 09:08 PM
How does the videos not make sense, If you notice I am using the item mode in modo to do the cloning. Same thing that layout uses. I never cloned polygons, points or edges it was in item mode. I did the same thing in 3dsmax which is a real mesh engine and is aware of points polygons and edges and
it cloned them a tad bit faster than Lighwave (but not by much) but it to also blew modo out of the water.

Maybe they fixed something in Version 11.2 but I only have 10.2 so that might be the difference. As for the edges in MODO I used the edge slide tool in MODO and in 10.2 it couldn't even do it on a 100,000 polygon mesh. So not sure what tool you are using


3dmax is on another level. Can't compare to modo and lightwave.

Item mode in modo and copying items, those items are still editable. Layout has no concept of editable mesh. Please nobody mention clothfx here. Lol
Let me guess why sliding edges is not working for you in modo. Is weld close vertex checked? Try to do it again.

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 09:18 PM
3dmax is on another level. Can't compare to modo and lightwave.

Item mode in modo and copying items, those items are still editable. Layout has no concept of editable mesh. Please nobody mention clothfx here. Lol
Let me guess why sliding edges is not working for you in modo. Is weld close vertex checked? Try to do it again.

Making a video to show you what's happening one sec

samurai_x
12-17-2017, 09:20 PM
Wow! I'm really surprised! I think even modo is using old code for sudivide metaform tesselation.

Using subd and freeze method, I reached 11 million polys with no problem and lag whatsover!
Sliding edges in modo at 11 million polys is still good.

Talk about a modern mesh engine!

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 09:27 PM
Wow! I'm really surprised! I think even modo is using old code for sudivide metaform tesselation.

Using subd and freeze method, I reached 11 million polys with no problem and lag whatsover!
Sliding edges in modo at 11 million polys is still good.

Talk about a modern mesh engine!

Of course it is it was built off of lightwave architecture lol ;)

Oh well you learnt something from me :)

Well it's not working here like you are saying, are you able to provide a video.

Here is the video of what MODO does when I use the slide tool on 40,000 polygons TERRIBLE! and I don't know why?


https://youtu.be/D3A0m-G8I88

Thanks,
Jason

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 09:29 PM
UPDATE

After Making the video I figured out the issue. It was because Merge Vertices was checked. That slows it down to a crawl when it's checked.

Thanks,
Jason

samurai_x
12-17-2017, 09:48 PM
UPDATE

After Making the video I figured out the issue. It was because Merge Vertices was checked. That slows it down to a crawl when it's checked.

Thanks,
Jason

That's what I said in previouse post! Modo is just too advance sometimes.

"Let me guess why sliding edges is not working for you in modo. Is weld close vertex checked? Try to do it again."

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 09:53 PM
That's what I said in previouse post! Modo is just too advance sometimes.

"Let me guess why sliding edges is not working for you in modo. Is weld close vertex checked? Try to do it again."

You said weld close vertex I couldn't find that. lol ;) But yes you directed me in the right direction. Thanks :)

- - - Updated - - -


That's what I said in previouse post! Modo is just too advance sometimes.

"Let me guess why sliding edges is not working for you in modo. Is weld close vertex checked? Try to do it again."

Are you using SDS Subdivide to freeze? I can't find the freeze command in MODO

samurai_x
12-17-2017, 10:05 PM
The meaning is the same in spirit :D weld, merge.

Under geometry tab.

I do hope lightwave 2018 at least updated modeler to be a bit faster. The layout camera in modeler is the one feature that interests me most in lightwave 2018.

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 10:19 PM
Wow! I'm really surprised! I think even modo is using old code for sudivide metaform tesselation.

Using subd and freeze method, I reached 11 million polys with no problem and lag whatsover!
Sliding edges in modo at 11 million polys is still good.

Talk about a modern mesh engine!

I can't get anywhere close, Can you describe what you do in MODO, I think they must of made some significant changes in 11.2 compared to 10.2

Thanks,
Jason

samurai_x
12-17-2017, 10:23 PM
I'm on 10.2. No plans to upgrade. Dropped modo already.
Create cube>press tab>freeze(geometry tab), rinse repeat. I got up to 11 million easy on a puny laptop. But its not a perfect round mesh. :D

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 10:26 PM
I'm on 10.2. No plans to upgrade. Dropped modo already.
Create cube>press tab>freeze(geometry tab), rinse repeat. I got up to 11 million easy on a puny laptop. But its not a perfect round mesh. :D

Yeah but when I freeze Geometry I get a dialogue box and I don't know what I should choose for my settings.

jboudreau
12-17-2017, 10:39 PM
Wow! I'm really surprised! I think even modo is using old code for sudivide metaform tesselation.

Using subd and freeze method, I reached 11 million polys with no problem and lag whatsover!
Sliding edges in modo at 11 million polys is still good.

Talk about a modern mesh engine!

Are you looking at the GL Numbers or the actual Polygons? My GL (What ever that is) says 201,326,592 Million, The Polygons Count says 6.7 Million.

thomascheng
12-17-2017, 10:45 PM
I don't even think Modo has a new geometry core yet. I curious to see how Layout performs.

samurai_x
12-17-2017, 11:18 PM
Yeah but when I freeze Geometry I get a dialogue box and I don't know what I should choose for my settings.

Just press ok.


Are you looking at the GL Numbers or the actual Polygons? My GL (What ever that is) says 201,326,592 Million, The Polygons Count says 6.7 Million.

Polys from an actual selection. GL Count is scene max tri count.

hrgiger
12-18-2017, 02:36 AM
Ok not sure why this thread has been clogged up all of a sudden with Modo comparisons, but i'll just say Jason you should probably learn at least how the app works first if you want to make a fair comparison. I had to tell you how to tell if SubD's were on yesterday (it says it right there in the viewport, even easier than LW to tell) and also youre using Modo from 3 revisions ago. You said why should you have to pay $400 to upgrade to fix something like the poly selection .. Ok if we are going to use that logic, why have i had to upgrade LW 3 times now only to not have CC subdivision or edges fixed in LW?

It is true that some things are slower in Modo than they are in Modeler. But then its also true that Modeler has no modern workflows and is still essentially the same application it was from two decades ago and just as destructive as ever. We have a few new tools in this release, tools that have largely already been available in 3rd party plugins so once again, almost nothing new for modeler other than the workaround camera view and a new openGL viewport which still lags behind other viewports in other apps, particularly Modos advanced viewport. Layout this time around (again) is the only reason to consider an upgrade.

Asticles
12-18-2017, 02:52 AM
Ok not sure why this thread has been clogged up all of a sudden with Modo comparisons, but i'll just say Jason you should probably learn at least how the app works first if you want to make a fair comparison. I had to tell you how to tell if SubD's were on yesterday (it says it right there in the viewport, even easier than LW to tell) and also youre using Modo from 3 revisions ago. You said why should you have to pay $400 to upgrade to fix something like the poly selection .. Ok if we are going to use that logic, why have i had to upgrade LW 3 times now only to not have CC subdivision or edges fixed in LW?

It is true that some things are slower in Modo than they are in Modeler. But then its also true that Modeler has no modern workflows and is still essentially the same application it was from two decades ago and just as destructive as ever. We have a few new tools in this release, tools that have largely already been available in 3rd party plugins so once again, almost nothing new for modeler other than the workaround camera view and a new openGL viewport which still lags behind other viewports in other apps, particularly Modos advanced viewport. Layout this time around (again) is the only reason to consider an upgrade.

I suppose that if we had LW2018 to test there would be a lot of performance comparison between LW2018 and others. By now we can only guess things, and the closest software to Lightwave are Modo and Blender.

Regards

jboudreau
12-18-2017, 02:33 PM
Ok not sure why this thread has been clogged up all of a sudden with Modo comparisons, but i'll just say Jason you should probably learn at least how the app works first if you want to make a fair comparison. I had to tell you how to tell if SubD's were on yesterday (it says it right there in the viewport, even easier than LW to tell) and also youre using Modo from 3 revisions ago. You said why should you have to pay $400 to upgrade to fix something like the poly selection .. Ok if we are going to use that logic, why have i had to upgrade LW 3 times now only to not have CC subdivision or edges fixed in LW?

It is true that some things are slower in Modo than they are in Modeler. But then its also true that Modeler has no modern workflows and is still essentially the same application it was from two decades ago and just as destructive as ever. We have a few new tools in this release, tools that have largely already been available in 3rd party plugins so once again, almost nothing new for modeler other than the workaround camera view and a new openGL viewport which still lags behind other viewports in other apps, particularly Modos advanced viewport. Layout this time around (again) is the only reason to consider an upgrade.

Not sure why you brought this to the Lightwave Forum since that was a (personnel conversation) and for that matter not sure why you are even on here since all you do is complain about Ligthwave and have moved on to MODO like you have stated numerous of times here and all over social media etc. As for MODO when have I stated that I was a professional in that application because I am not? The only reason I can use it some is because it's so similar to Lightwave in many ways. I'm a Lightwave user and have been for over 22 years. I can count on one hand how many times I have opened up MODO because in the end I always turn to Lightwave because it gets the job done.

I made one video (cloning) comparing the software, If you can deny what I'm showing then make a video and prove me wrong instead of coming on here and stating the fact. Actions speak louder than words you know. That's the point, Yes we all know modeler has not been changed for a long time but MODO has and still Lightwave's Layout / Modeler can run circles around it in certain areas and probably vice versa I'm sure

Chuck: Yes please either remove these posts or move it to another thread.

Thanks,
Jason

hrgiger
12-18-2017, 04:17 PM
Jason, this had nothing to do with our conversation on facebook, I was commenting on the derailing of this thread that happened a few pages ago between you and Samurai_x. And I still use LW fyi, just not for modeler. And I already posted all the vids you need to see on facebook.

jboudreau
12-18-2017, 05:21 PM
Jason, this had nothing to do with our conversation on facebook, I was commenting on the derailing of this thread that happened a few pages ago between you and Samurai_x. And I still use LW fyi, just not for modeler. And I already posted all the vids you need to see on facebook.

HAHA, Give me a break, so where did you get these statement from, Please show me where this information below is on the forum?


I had to tell you how to tell if SubD's were on yesterday (it says it right there in the viewport, even easier than LW to tell) and also youre You said why should you have to pay $400 to upgrade to fix something like the poly selection ..

That's right it's not is it? It was from a discussion I was having with you on facebook, while you were trashing the software to no ends. We all know what you really think of the software it's plastered all over social media any change you get. Anyway unlike you I won't stoop down so low as to post that conversation on here.

Thanks,
Jason

hrgiger
12-18-2017, 05:26 PM
Yes and I don't know why you had to bring it on here, I was simply responding to the fact you're trying to make a lot of comparisons between LW and app you really dont' seem to understand at all and yes bringing up a few things we talked about on fb as well.

But anyway, not the place for this, its derailing the thread so I won't comment on it further.

tyrot
12-19-2017, 03:17 PM
really? :)

Chuck
12-19-2017, 04:07 PM
I've split this discussion off to its own thread. Carry on, but critique the applications, not each other, please.

erikals
12-19-2017, 04:14 PM
thanks for starting this thread
another example >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3eqeEoNbDw

gar26lw
12-19-2017, 05:30 PM
man, that’s slow by comparison.

jboudreau
12-19-2017, 05:34 PM
man, that’s slow by comparison.

That's what I thought too. Someone said I wasn't comparing the same things because layout doesn't see polygons, edges and vertices but I compared it to 3DSMAX which does see polygons, edges and vertices like MODO and Lightwave and 3DSMAX were pretty much the same speed. MODO was no where close.

erikals
12-19-2017, 05:58 PM
unless gar26lw referred to my video...

jboudreau
12-19-2017, 06:04 PM
unless gar26lw referred to my video...

haha actually that's true lol, When people don't put quotes in there messages who knows

You are probably right, whoops

Thanks,
Jason

gar26lw
12-19-2017, 06:48 PM
haha actually that's true lol, When people don't put quotes in there messages who knows

You are probably right, whoops

Thanks,
Jason

yeah it was the vid with blender speed and 3rd powers. i’m really bad for skipping the quotes. need to watch that.

Wickedpup
12-19-2017, 10:32 PM
Someone said I wasn't comparing the same things because layout doesn't see polygons, edges and vertices but I compared it to 3DSMAX which does see polygons, edges and vertices like MODO and Lightwave and 3DSMAX were pretty much the same speed. MODO was no where close.

Since there is obvious differences between the amount of mesh data Layout pushes around compared to Modo, Blender, etc. Does not the same apply to Modeler?

pixym
12-20-2017, 12:46 AM
Hi, From my own experience number of polygons in modeler does not really matter for a layer. But the number of surfaces for this object is crucial!
If you have an object with a single surface is not the same at all than the same object with load of surfaces…
I noticed that while importing meshes or DWG drawings from CAD app. Object with load of surfaces will make the modeler works very very slow. If you apply a single surfaces to a very heavy model/layer Open GL speed will be back.

hrgiger
12-20-2017, 01:58 AM
If speed were the only issue I'd agree with you. Its just Modelers outdated toolset, workflow, broken core tools, and completely destructive nature. Not to mention its complete lack of focus for games for artists who do that type of work.

mav3rick
12-20-2017, 02:09 AM
thanks for starting this thread
another example >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3eqeEoNbDw

:) hahahhah :) we'r so fast you cant even notice

https://i.imgur.com/opfefe6.gif


freeware vs payware :)

Jake
12-20-2017, 07:41 AM
I'm curious what people reasonably expect modeler to become.

I started Lightwave with version 5.6 and was focused pretty much solely on modeling. I bought ZBrush when it was first released at the GDC and eventually started modeling with it. By now, it is far far beyond what I would ever expect to Lightwave modeler to compete with. And it's not the only modeling option out there. So does it make sense for Newtek to invest substantially in modeler functionality? And if so, to get it where in relation to the options available on the market?

When I started in 3d, it was still the era when you (or at least I) was still looking for a package that would do everything. That seems like a silly expectation now. Usually when I look at an impressive render now online, it's done in 3 different software packages. Zbrush or something like it for sculpting. Marvelous designer for clothing. Subtance Painter for texturing. Etc. So for me, currently, Lightwave is like an affordable all around system that does a variety of things decently and is cheap enough that I can afford to invest in the specific areas where I need better tools. Maybe the focus should be on improving general performance and functionality with other applications?

hrgiger
12-20-2017, 08:13 AM
Thats pretty much it Jake. At this point , LW is so cheap and obviously there focused on improving Layout (and mostly just rendering) so theres little reason to expect a modern modeling toolset for LW. Might as well invest in something else for modeling and use lw for the things it is good at.

thomascheng
12-20-2017, 08:38 AM
Can chronosculpt handle this? Can't they replace modeler with Chronosculpt and it's geometry core?

ActionBob
12-20-2017, 08:42 AM
I'm curious what people reasonably expect modeler to become.



The simplest answer would be current.

As others have stated, Modeler has not really seen any significant changes in over a decade - pushing to 2 is probably exaggeration. But arguing over a timeline is not the main point.

I would be thrilled with modeler (even as a seperate app) if it weren't so destructive, had proper undo and had an underlying geo-engine that was fast, responsive and not "poly-barf" when executing certain commands.

Without a single new tool, but with a culling of old, legacy stuff and optimization of what is already in there; to perform on a level (responsiveness) as other contemporary tools, would be heaven. It would make what is a decent polygonal modeler, "the king of polygonal modelers" once again.

-Adrian

ActionBob
12-20-2017, 09:01 AM
Thats pretty much it Jake. At this point , LW is so cheap and obviously there focused on improving Layout (and mostly just rendering) so theres little reason to expect a modern modeling toolset for LW. Might as well invest in something else for modeling and use lw for the things it is good at.

This....

As I stated in another post... I don't see any real future development with Modeler. The code is too old and was written separately from Layout back in the day. I see Layout as the focus in the future. The supposed changes to the architecture should herald an evolution on that side of the application; eventually absorbing what modeler has, or introducing (a better approach in my opinion) modeler tool replacements into Layout.

I used to be the type to kick and scream at the thought of unification.... Now, I see killing off Modeler as the best route to go. To quote Kylo Ren from the new Star Wars movies, "Let the past die... Kill if if you have to."

Concentrating on Layout, introducing modern modeling / geo-editing tools to it seems the only smart way to go. Change is hard; especially for those of us in the older crowd (46 here and LW user since 3.5 on Amiga). In business there is a saying; "evolve or die." I think the evolution of Layout is the path to life.

Why divide what seem to be very limited resources between two apps? As many point out, one side seems to have received the only significant updates in years. I say give ALL the love to Layout. Maybe fix a few bugs here and there in Modeler until Layout surpasses its capabilities or Modeler is not used because there are better alternatives.

-Adrian

hypersuperduper
12-20-2017, 12:11 PM
Layout is obviously the way forward for lightwave, and newtek clearly understands this. But, it’s not like modeler is going anywhere soon it’s still a perfectly good destructive modeling tool, particularly with a few plugins. It will need to remain in service until it is no longer needed. and plus just wait till the 80’s retro pixel craze is over it’s gonna be time for 90’s 3D retro revival and then lightwave will be sitting pretty!

Greenlaw
12-20-2017, 03:12 PM
Can chronosculpt handle this? Can't they replace modeler with Chronosculpt and it's geometry core?

Chronosculpt actually grew out of the LightWave development for 2018 and future releases. I think it's always been the plan to use this tech for both animation and modeling...someday. :)

gar26lw
12-20-2017, 06:20 PM
probably the easiest way to update lightwaves modelling would be to throw all focus to a perfect read write of lxo.
i like modeller though and prefer it over modo. i do use a lot of extras- pictrix, lwcad,3rd powers, bevel++, the list goes on and on and on..
id like the unweld uv bug fixed, so discontinuous uv work, updated uv window and tools, live deformations and extrusions and live curves, plus instances.

hrgiger
12-20-2017, 06:51 PM
probably the easiest way to update lightwaves modelling would be to throw all focus to a perfect read write of lxo.
i like modeller though and prefer it over modo.

You say that, but then you want this:


i’d like the unweld uv bug fixed, so discontinuous uv work, updated uv window and tools, live deformations and extrusions and live curves, plus instances.

All of which Modo does.

Modeler will never have any of these things.

gar26lw
12-20-2017, 06:57 PM
You say that, but then you want this:
All of which Modo does.

Modeler will never have any of these things.

well, yeah cos i like using lightwave. i think it would be the easiest option but i didnt say the best or my personal preference, hence the small wishlist and why i followed up with preferring modeller over modo :)

i don’t know why but when i use modo, it’s good and familiar since its pretty much unified lightwave but i squirm using it, same as when i use max. just like lightwave more.

makes me think that all those after a unified lightwave should just use modo. it’s done already.