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View Full Version : Off Topic: Have you seen The Last Jedi? A WARNING without Spoilers



wingzeta
12-18-2017, 11:30 PM
The movie sucks BAD. I mean, it is trash. Not from a VFX standpoint, but from a story standpoint. If you see good reviews by critics. They are lying. I avoided reviews before, but as a fan, I would have seen it, even if I heard it was bad. However, for those on the fence, or casual fans, I want to save you a few bucks$$$. Disney does not deserve your money for ruining something a lot of people enjoy. I could say a whole lot more, but you will find rants all over the net about this. Unfortunately this is real.

You've been warned.

samurai_x
12-19-2017, 12:00 AM
Its better than the first one. That means its less sucky.
Starwars in general is getting repetitive. The story is always about a jedi either going dark or light.
Thats why rogue1 was actually good not like these two sequels.

wingzeta
12-19-2017, 12:55 AM
Its better than the first one. That means its less sucky.
Starwars in general is getting repetitive. The story is always about a jedi either going dark or light.
Thats why rogue1 was actually good not like these two sequels.

Did you like Highlander 2 better than Highlander 1? Just wondering. Okay that was downright mean.

Episode 7 was a lackluster remake of Episode 4, but it was a masterpiece compared to the last jedi Ep 8.

Rogue 1 was good though.

hypersuperduper
12-19-2017, 01:07 AM
Felt very prequel-ish. Lots of interesting concepts and narrative themes in a movie with terrible pacing, groan-worthy dialogue, a nonsensical plot ...and gross alien milking. Grumpy Mark Hamill is the best part.

samurai_x
12-19-2017, 01:15 AM
Did you like Highlander 2 better than Highlander 1? Just wondering. Okay that was downright mean.

Episode 7 was a lackluster remake of Episode 4, but it was a masterpiece compared to the last jedi Ep 8.

Rogue 1 was good though.

Highlander is an old movie. Maybe I watched it on hbo passively. Maybe the first one.
But SW episode 8 is better than ep 7 with Kylo being less annoying, and the inspiration a mix of empire and return. Snow scene, new cute animals, how original.
They're both not good to be watched over and over.

ristoraven
12-19-2017, 01:54 AM
Yes, I have seen it.

It follows the same pattern what pretty much everything else in the scifi today: the premise in based on "what people expects to see". Original Star Wars was based on the premise of "I am almighty George Lucas and I will take the people where ever the F' I want to". People didn't know what to expect and George was smug about it. Today, there's thousands of "consultants" reading from their pie-charts what are the most expected preferences in a movie genre in this and that age groups and sexes. Then there has to be the gender equality & all. It all lacks creative freedom, or perhaps, there is no such thing at all and everything is gathered from social studies, what people "wants to see" then those "findings" are packed into a non offending and very sterile plot, then handed over to the cgi department to put a sugar coating all over it.

wingzeta
12-19-2017, 01:58 AM
Highlander is an old movie. Maybe I watched it on hbo passively. Maybe the first one.
But SW episode 8 is better than ep 7 with Kylo being less annoying, and the inspiration a mix of empire and return. Snow scene, new cute animals, how original.
They're both not good to be watched over and over.

Well Highlander was a cult classic film. Highlander 2 was a sequel so bad, that destroyed so many plot threads, that they later made Highlander 3 and a tv series that are written as if the events of Highlander 2 never happened. We can only hope that the events of Last Jedi are treated as if they never happened. Like Rey wakes up from a dream in Ep 9, and continues on with the story from Ep 7. There's a good chance the career of Rian Johnson is over. His new trilogy will likely be cancelled, but then again Michael Bay keeps getting to make Transformer movies, so who knows. Collin Trevorow was smart to drop out of directing Ep 9. Good luck to JJ Abrams trying to fix the mess he is left, after Johnson burned down all the plot hooks he left him. Can't believe this script was approved.

TheLexx
12-19-2017, 02:11 AM
I've only ever seen the original three, but of the latest one apparently Mark Hamill said to the director (http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/mark-hamill-i-fundamentally-disagree-every-choice-luke-last-jedi) something like "I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you’ve made for this character".

ristoraven
12-19-2017, 03:25 AM
If you think about it, it would be impossible today to have a masculine, independent scoundrel as a main character, who would yell to the princes "you could use a good kiss". I mean, the world would collapse in shock.

Well, I am going to see the new Blade Runner today (finally). I always hope I am wrong. I am optimistic pessimist. :)

Asticles
12-19-2017, 04:20 AM
After seeing Star Wars episode VII, I swore I would not see a Star Wars movie again.

I remained two days angry.

roboman
12-19-2017, 08:00 AM
It seemed like they gutted the story to make a politically correct movie that didn't really match the other Star Wars movies. I liked the Fx...

samurai_x
12-19-2017, 08:53 AM
I've only ever seen the original three, but of the latest one apparently Mark Hamill said to the director (http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/mark-hamill-i-fundamentally-disagree-every-choice-luke-last-jedi) something like "I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you’ve made for this character".

I thought in his latest interviews he actually liked the development.
His initial impression of the script was negative but after that, he liked how it turned out.

Nicolas Jordan
12-19-2017, 08:58 AM
I haven't seen it yet. The only thing I really didn't like about the Force Awakens was the stupid jokes they seemed to want to sprinkle throughout the movie just for the sake of it. Some of them were very out of place and sloppy. I'm just hoping they didn't do that with The Last Jedi. Jokes can have there place in a movie but the shouldn't feel forced or out of place.

SBowie
12-19-2017, 09:05 AM
I saw it last evening with friends. I actually quite liked it, and thought it was better than its immediate predecessor. The time went by quite quickly. I think my reaction might be different than some because I don't really think of it as sci-fi, but rather as a space western (with a touch of Pixar thrown in ... I could do without yet another cuddly creature with big pitiful eyes).

prometheus
12-19-2017, 09:12 AM
could do without yet another cuddly creature with big pitiful eyes).
Yeah, that stuff I never liked in the star wars movies, except for some smaller creature stuff in the first three movies, but when it went muppet show with jar jar and some other figures..that sort of destroyed the magic for me, and I actually enjoyed the movie going back to be more of a conflict saga story with JJ abrams, I hope it isn´t too much of them ..of the sort I saw in the trailer for this movie, just can´t stand that.

Svenart
12-19-2017, 09:48 AM
Still better than the new star trek movies, but it was hard on the limit.

SBowie
12-19-2017, 10:21 AM
I hope it isn´t too much of them ..of the sort I saw in the trailer for this movie, just can´t stand that.Well, it stops short of Tribbles, but is still a little too close for comfort (Tribbles were fine ... one time, and one time only).

Markc
12-19-2017, 11:50 AM
One word....Disney.
Worst mistake for GL to sell to them (IMHO), since Disney took over they seem to cater far more for young kids, and I'm fed up of every other commercial having 'last jedi' tagged on.
I haven't seen it yet, and am not particularly bothered when I do.

Vong
12-19-2017, 11:56 AM
TLJ is what it is... Not everyone is gonna like it, but it allowed me to escape reality for a couple of hours and down some popcorn!

I see someone mention Highlander 2, or as my friends and I like to call it "Highlander 2 : Lambert & Connery Together Again, The Musical"! :D

meatycheesyboy
12-19-2017, 12:15 PM
I haven't seen The Last Jedi yet but the number of commercials I have seen where the Star Wars is tacked on (the commercial with the Rey lookalike outrunning AT-ATs in a Nissan SUV is the worst) makes me think it'll be a big dumb loud movie meant to please the masses with lots of explosions and cute cuddly characters they can merchandise the heck out of... so, a Disney movie.

I have a feeling that I will very shortly fall out of love with Star Wars the same way I have fallen out of love with superhero movies. At this point you could probably splice together scenes from any of the last 3 Marvel movies and the end result would still make sense since those movies are so formulaic at this point and we're very close, if we're not there already, to getting to that point with Star Wars, IMO.

<edit> I just re-read my response. I did not mean for it to sound so ranty, apologies. <edit>

stiff paper
12-19-2017, 12:52 PM
...stupid jokes... ...hoping they didn't do that with The Last Jedi.
Last Jedi is much worse in that regard.


I could do without yet another cuddly creature
But merchandise.


I remained two days angry.
I haven't been a Star Wars "fan" for thirty five years now but even I thought VII was offensively bad. I can't guarantee you'll like it, obviously, but try Rogue One. I was pleasantly surprised.

ActionBob
12-19-2017, 01:06 PM
I saw it opening day...

As a movie and a form of escapism, it is okay. As a die-hard fan who saw the original in theaters back in '77.... I have some real issues with it; story-wise and how some characters were dealt with.

Most of all, I am tired of Hollywood, Social Justice Warrior, anti-men themes that seem to permeate media these days. I don't need my fantasy western telling me that all men are baffoons and its up to all the women to get things in order. Don't get me wrong, I like Rey as a character and Daisy Ridley is a fun actress. But all the men in this movie are portrayed as either villains, turn-coats, cowards, war-mongers or testosterone filled loose cannons.

The movie has story problems, but the didactic social commentary / indoctrination scenes and themes ruined my paid for, space fantasy escapism.

I enjoyed and hated it all at once.

-Adrian

TheLexx
12-19-2017, 01:36 PM
Reading, the choices strike me as:-

People didn't understand it but will eventually become regarded as a classic.
So bad it's good.
Just plain bad.

djwaterman
12-19-2017, 02:31 PM
Just stop it. Stop paying money to see these movies. You encourage them.

SBowie
12-19-2017, 02:32 PM
Some of us will pay good money just to see the Millennial Falcon again for old times sake, sorry.

Chris S. (Fez)
12-19-2017, 03:00 PM
Some of us will pay good money just to see the Millennial Falcon again for old times sake, sorry.

Yeah. Maybe not the instant classic some critics were claiming and fans were hoping for but, around the middle of the movie, I was able to let go of my cynicism and just enjoy myself. Helped to have my dad beside me grinning and laughing like a little kid.

ristoraven
12-19-2017, 03:28 PM
OT. Blade Runner - flawless movie, imo.
Nothing further your honor.

wingzeta
12-19-2017, 03:29 PM
Some of us will pay good money just to see the Millennial Falcon again for old times sake, sorry.

Some of us were willing to pay good money to see Luke Skywalker in action once again, and instead we got this. I'm glad you felt you got your money's worth though. At least someone did. Though the millennium falcon was only briefly in the film.

I'm hoping this will be like X-men 3, (the one Brett Ratner directed), where they just act like it didn't happen.

The brilliant central plot of the film is "let's run away until we run out of gas" Everything Poe Finn and Rose do in the film, is for nothing, because the purple haired character who was introduced out of nowhere, and added nothing to the film, wouldn't tell Poe the plan. But they portray her as some noble soul. And, the bad guys could have just jumped some ships in in front of the rebel ship and blown it away at any time. They have hyper drives! Luke claims he went to that island to die. Then why did he leave a map in the last movie? I'll tell you why, because Rian Johnson didn't care about any of the details that came before, and shows he doesn't even know how the long standing tech and "magic" works in the universe. Lucasfilm has a story group who is supposed to make sure they maintain continuity across the various movies, tv, and books. They just let this guy go off and do whatever he felt like on a huge budget film like this. The plot holes in this are amazing. For a very casual fan who only vaguely remembers what happened in the other films, maybe it is entertaining. I don't know. There was always something happening on screen, but rarely anything of consequence.

BTW, not all the VFX were good. A bad CG Yoda shows up briefly for no other reason than to have him make a cameo. And apparently force ghosts can make lightning bolts now. I bet Luke wishes Yoda would have shown up and done that, when he was getting electrocuted by the emperor in Return of the Jedi. It would have saved him from almost dying. But that was back when some thought and craftsmanship was put into it.

wingzeta
12-19-2017, 03:31 PM
I should have gone to see Blade Runner.

ristoraven
12-19-2017, 03:58 PM
Some of us were willing to pay good money to see Luke Skywalker in action once again, and instead we got this. I'm glad you felt you got your money's worth though. At least someone did. Though the millennium falcon was only briefly in the film.

I'm hoping this will be like X-men 3, (the one Brett Ratner directed), where they just act like it didn't happen.

The brilliant central plot of the film is "let's run away until we run out of gas" Everything Poe Finn and Rose do in the film, is for nothing, because the purple haired character who was introduced out of nowhere, and added nothing to the film, wouldn't tell Poe the plan. But they portray her as some noble soul. And, the bad guys could have just jumped some ships in in front of the rebel ship and blown it away at any time. They have hyper drives! Luke claims he went to that island to die. Then why did he leave a map in the last movie? I'll tell you why, because Rian Johnson didn't care about any of the details that came before, and shows he doesn't even know how the long standing tech and "magic" works in the universe. Lucasfilm has a story group who is supposed to make sure they maintain continuity across the various movies, tv, and books. They just let this guy go off and do whatever he felt like on a huge budget film like this. The plot holes in this are amazing. For a very casual fan who only vaguely remembers what happened in the other films, maybe it is entertaining. I don't know. There was always something happening on screen, but rarely anything of consequence.

BTW, not all the VFX were good. A bad CG Yoda shows up briefly for no other reason than to have him make a cameo. And apparently force ghosts can make lightning bolts now. I bet Luke wishes Yoda would have shown up and done that, when he was getting electrocuted by the emperor in Return of the Jedi. It would have saved him from almost dying. But that was back when some thought and craftsmanship was put into it.

Thanks man. I really couldn't start pointing out the flaws, since it would have begun with opening of the movie, which was straight from the Space Balls. It should be known, at this level, that the opening of the movie sets the tone for the whole movie. If it is a comedy, you start with a gag.

The plotholes are indeed amazing these days. Like, is the Hollywood high jacked by an AI and it just generates random twists in the plot based on algorithms, skips the obvious logic and reason and focuses only on some "preferences of the general audience" that sells?

I was really amazed for the first time in the movie theater when watching James Bond Skyfall. Really? He was properly dead before the titles. During the titles he sank like a rock. Bond was dead like a parrot in the Monty Python joke. Properly deceased. Then, he was just laying on the bed with a woman next to him, staring with empty eyes to the wall, like he really, really didn't care. Like "I was dead, now I am here again, I am Kenny Mcgormick". Then later in the movie he is hanging in an elevator shaft, thinking "this is a tricky situation man", then scene cut to somewhere else, cut back to Bond and he just made it. Nobody knows how.

What strikes me the most is - people doesn't care. They thought they saw a good movie and didn't notice anything strange.

This is sometimes so surreal, that the movie Body Snatchers comes to my mind. I haven't just been yet introduced with the pods, I suppose.

wingzeta
12-19-2017, 04:16 PM
That's a movie people need to see!

It would be pretty cool, and creepy to have a full size model of one of those pods sitting on a bookshelf in your house, or hidden behind the couch. Some people would get the reference, most would just think it was some modern art sculpture.

As far as the last jedi, more and more plot holes surface as you think about it. Where were the "knights of ren" the guys they showed slaughtering the jedi training center with kylo in the last film's flashback? They just got written out, because Rian didn't feel like it. In the flash back kylo had his mask on, using a red lightsaber killing jedi kids with a group of guys. Now he is mask off, by himself, with a different color lightsaber, for what is supposedly the same night. The film is a joke. The more people think about it, or see it again on TV, the more they will see the truth of how bad it is. Rian and Kathleen Kennedy should be out after this.

jperk
12-19-2017, 07:31 PM
SPOILERS BELOW : skip if you haven't seen film

Just saw it and was very disappointed. Too many of the good guys committing suicide — it got so old. It made me side with the dark side because suicide missions are cowardly acts in my opinion. The acting was not good at all and the pacing was terrible. Too much going on and battle after battle. I really think Last Jedi was over done and I totally blame Disney.

On a positive note, I was surprised to see a lot of Carrie Fisher/ General Leia throughout the film. The fact Disney kept her alive makes me wonder what they are doing with her in Episode IX. Now that Luke is dead — it seems the next film will be just the new characters. Honestly, the new characters are just lame at this point. I felt the same with Rogue One. Also, I think Harrison Ford added to The Force Awakens and maybe The Last Jedi needed him. Han Solo went too soon. SpecialFX was alright, but kind of cheesy at times. I wasn't sold on the floating Leia in outer space. Really lame.

I think Carrie Fisher sounded a lot like Marge Simpson at times, but I'm glad she had a big part in the movie. Other than that, I don't see the point in episodes 7,8, and 9. The true trilogy is 4,5, and 6. It's got the best story and characters. Did we really care about why and how Anakin Skywalker joined the darkside (prequels)? The new characters in 7,8,9 feel like fan-fiction. The films seem pointless as if Disney just said, "Well, why not?" I thought Return of the Jedi was a good final as Luke saves the galaxy and proved he could convert his father from the dark side to the light.

Disney sucks with the Star Wars brand. Everything feels so tacked on. I enjoyed The Force Awakens, but this one was dreadful. Force Awakens felt like a reboot of episode IV and the fact the original cast came back made it super nostalgic. Disney lucked out due to nostalgia. However, I don't think IX will be very good — not after The Last Jedi.

Mark Hamil, Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher and crew is what made the original three so good. They are just too old now. George Lucas should of done 7,8, and 9 ages ago in the 90's instead of the prequel trilogy.

The only worthy Star Wars movies are A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of The Jedi NON ALTERED VERSIONS. If anyone can help me find the non altered VHS tapes ...

https://recovergirl.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/that-would-be-great.jpg

fablefox
12-19-2017, 09:41 PM
If you think about it, it would be impossible today to have a masculine, independent scoundrel as a main character, who would yell to the princes "you could use a good kiss". I mean, the world would collapse in shock.

Well, I am going to see the new Blade Runner today (finally). I always hope I am wrong. I am optimistic pessimist. :)

Sadly, you are correct.

At modo forum there was a thread where I talk extensively about the new Blade Runner.

sadkkf
12-20-2017, 10:53 AM
Everything Poe Finn and Rose do in the film, is for nothing

Exactly like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Indiana Jones did nothing to affect the outcome of the movie and he's the central character.

Also, this film follows with Disney's intent...to transition from the old cast to a new one, allowing the franchise to go on forever. I would just really appreciate a more grown-up story. Rogue One was a good step in that direction. No more one-liners, no more porgs, no more whiny teenagers.

sadkkf
12-20-2017, 10:58 AM
SPOILERS BELOW : skip if you haven't seen film

However, I don't think IX will be very good — not after The Last Jedi.

IX will be written and directed by Abrams again and it's the final act of this trilogy. It'll end on a happier note and likely follow expectations a little better. I could be wrong, of course.

wingzeta
12-20-2017, 12:24 PM
Exactly like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Indiana Jones did nothing to affect the outcome of the movie and he's the central character.

Also, this film follows with Disney's intent...to transition from the old cast to a new one, allowing the franchise to go on forever. I would just really appreciate a more grown-up story. Rogue One was a good step in that direction. No more one-liners, no more porgs, no more whiny teenagers.

Hey, mentioning Raiders in the same sentence as Last Jedi is just wrong:-) Also not true. They wouldn't have found the ark if Indy hadn't found it for them;-)

Signal to Noise
12-20-2017, 12:33 PM
Please sign this.

https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-have-disney-strike-star-wars-episode-viii-from-the-official-canon

Signal to Noise
12-20-2017, 12:36 PM
OT. Blade Runner - flawless movie, imo.
Nothing further your honor.

Quoted for truth. 2049 is my favorite film of 2017.

wingzeta
12-20-2017, 01:14 PM
Please sign this.

https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-have-disney-strike-star-wars-episode-viii-from-the-official-canon

Thanks for providing the link. It is good to see this sort of thing is happening, when a lot of people are still in denial. When the movie hits home video, there will be another wave of discontent, as people who liked it, see it for a second time, and the rose colored glasses come off.

pinkmouse
12-20-2017, 03:59 PM
I really enjoyed it. It was fun. And I think I'll probably enjoy it more at home when it comes out, 'cos my sound system is better than the cinema. :)

Julez4001
12-20-2017, 06:18 PM
Finn -- he keeps getting worse and worse--they should have just left him in the coma, that would have been better justice to his character. He loves Rey and Rey has him in the friendzone, poor guy.
Rose to me, just took Finn spot. There was actual potential of fricton between her and Poe with the whole sister angle.

jperk
12-20-2017, 07:05 PM
IX will be written and directed by Abrams again and it's the final act of this trilogy. It'll end on a happier note and likely follow expectations a little better. I could be wrong, of course.

Okay, I don't mind Abrams at this point. Force Awakens was actually pretty good. Much better than Last Jedi so maybe Abrams can do IX some justice. The writers for VIII need to be fired.

Also, are they going to use a CGI General Leia in IX? Or does Disney have extra scenes during filming of VIII that is going to be used in IX? Obviously, Leia is going to die in IX given the current trend. First Han, then Luke, etc.

Man I am still so bummed about Last Jedi. I can't get floating Leia out of my head. :thumbsdow

If that was originally in the script when Fisher was still alive I'm sure she got a real kick out of it.

Schwyhart
12-20-2017, 07:34 PM
Also, are they going to use a CGI General Leia in IX? Or does Disney have extra scenes during filming of VIII that is going to be used in IX?


My friend told me he read an interview that JJ refuses to do a 3D model of (older-age) Leia, even though Carrie Fisher's family gave him the okay to do it. I have no clue where Star Wars will go next!

Markc
12-21-2017, 05:42 AM
Thanks for providing the link. It is good to see this sort of thing is happening, when a lot of people are still in denial. When the movie hits home video, there will be another wave of discontent, as people who liked it, see it for a second time, and the rose colored glasses come off.

The funny thing is I saw the original 3 at cinema and have them on vhs/Laserdisc/dvd, which I have watched tons of times, even when they are on tv, you can't help watching them.
Whereas eps 1,2,3, I saw at cinema, bought and watched on dvd, and never watched again.
Saw recent 2 new ones (whatever there called) at cinema......no home version bought.
Not seen the new one (that stupid furry thing in the falcon clip just tipped it over the edge......:2guns:)

Rant over...:D

wingzeta
12-22-2017, 02:19 PM
Disney has found the perfect customer.

138942

They don't care about the details, just the little creature added purely for merchandising. Nietzsche's "last man" in effect, and the death knell of western civilization;D.

Ron Schatz
12-22-2017, 03:41 PM
Watching it, I had fun, just as a mindless WWII movie, yahoo.
Waking back to the car, I thought, humm, how do you drop bombs in space? a rail accelerator or something, why so Loooooooong to get to the target?
nope, just stop thinking, and go home.

Merry Christmas to all.

MichaelT
12-22-2017, 03:46 PM
That movie was stupid in so many ways. I won't spoil things here.. but at some point I will talk about it. I understand why they did what they did, but it is oh so dumb... they could have gone a much better route.

Dillon
12-22-2017, 03:52 PM
This man speaks truth!


some of us will pay good money just to see the millennial falcon again for old times sake, sorry.

Dillon
12-22-2017, 04:02 PM
Ah, goddammit. That was my favorite scene, and you just gone ruined it.

And now the movie sucks!

(jk - it's a great ride)


Watching it, I had fun, just as a mindless WWII movie, yahoo.
Waking back to the car, I thought, humm, how do you drop bombs in space? a rail accelerator or something, why so Loooooooong to get to the target?
nope, just stop thinking, and go home.

Merry Christmas to all.

jperk
12-22-2017, 05:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLaI3XAnkLc

gar26lw
12-22-2017, 06:28 PM
the film is total garbage. as someone else said, it’s sjw politically correct crap.

the only thing that would redeem it would be for nolan or blomkamp to take it on.

the comedy ruins it, the evil guys are a joke and pose no menace at all. luke going full retard didn’t help.

it should have been a dark brooding serious movie from the 80’s with lashings of non pc dialogue and ruthless menacing villains.

instead it was, as other have said, a disney pos. men in the future are spineless nobodies by the looks of things.

at least blade runner was done right. if only the sw franchise had followed that mould and been true to the originals.

this writer director utterly butchered it.

I felt a great disturbance in the franchise, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened. :)

a real shame..

jperk
12-22-2017, 06:35 PM
I still got to see the original Blade Runner as well as the recent sequel. There are two cuts of original Blade Runner, which one is worth viewing? Original cut or alternate cut?

gar26lw
12-22-2017, 07:33 PM
I still got to see the original Blade Runner as well as the recent sequel. There are two cuts of original Blade Runner, which one is worth viewing? Original cut or alternate cut?

i saw the final cut in the cinema right before the new one came out. i have to say i prefer the original with voice over.
soundtrack is brilliant in the cinema.

jperk
12-22-2017, 08:34 PM
ah so the theatrical has a narrator throughout the film? I did I quick bing search and I heard the final cut is Scott's preferred version. Also, the coloring is more of a blue hue in final cut as opposed to theatrical, which uses a white washed out look. Was reading this on a reddit posting.

gar26lw
12-22-2017, 08:41 PM
ah so the theatrical has a narrator throughout the film? I did I quick bing search and I heard the final cut is Scott's preferred version. Also, the coloring is more of a blue hue in final cut as opposed to theatrical, which uses a white washed out look. Was reading this on a reddit posting.

that’s interesting. the one i saw in the cinema (final cut) has batty saying father instead of swearing. sucks. really removes the impact, esp as its the only swear word in the whole movie. i think 70-80’s was a golden age of sci-fi.

this was posted on the modo forum just recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xBKrz0wdsM

djwaterman
12-23-2017, 12:44 AM
I'd go with the theatrical cut and not the director's cut for Blade Runner, sometimes the producers are correct in their decisions and in Blade Runner's case they made the right call, Harrison Ford detested the decision to do a voice over and purposely did a dry emotionless reading, thinking they'd never use it, unfortunately for him it just happens that this is the perfect type of reading for that sort of hard boiled weary exposition. Scott's version layers on a vague suggestion that Deckard is himself a replicant, which wasn't in the script and not a terribly clever or helpful concept to stick in there for no good reason. Yep, hard boiled all the way for me.

wingzeta
12-23-2017, 12:50 AM
I'd go with the theatrical cut and not the director's cut for Blade Runner, sometimes the producers are correct in their decisions and in Blade Runner's case they made the right call, Harrison Ford detested the decision to do a voice over and purposely did a dry emotionless reading, thinking they'd never use it, unfortunately for him it just happens that this is the perfect type of reading for that sort of hard boiled weary exposition. Scott's version layers on a vague suggestion that Deckard is himself a replicant, which wasn't in the script and not a terribly clever or helpful concept to stick in there for no good reason. Yep, hard boiled all the way for me.

I agree the theatrical is best, having watched all the versions, though I do think Ford's dry read is lame. The film needs the VO to propel you through the slower moments, and like you said, it adds to the noir detective vibe.

wingzeta
12-23-2017, 12:56 AM
I saw this very funny and comprehensive, linear run through of the last jedi. Only for those who have already seen it, or have no intention of seeing it, as it goes through every painful thing that happens in the movie. This movie makes the prequels look like Laurence of Arabia. It is amazing in it's own way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QJRw56cOVw

I would watch it in high speed though, it takes less time and makes it funnier.

probiner
12-23-2017, 03:45 AM
I got my rad star wars kool aid! Want some!?

https://media.giphy.com/media/xULW8Ne6ougidxkjyE/giphy.gif

jperk
12-23-2017, 08:06 AM
Farmer boyy knows best

jasonwestmas
12-23-2017, 08:33 AM
Watching it, I had fun, just as a mindless WWII movie, yahoo.
Waking back to the car, I thought, humm, how do you drop bombs in space? a rail accelerator or something, why so Loooooooong to get to the target?
nope, just stop thinking, and go home.

Merry Christmas to all.

Technology is considered magic now, we are forced to accept it because it is technology. :)

erikals
12-23-2017, 09:20 AM
i tend to like this girl's reviews >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttOoEbj0VL4

wingzeta
12-23-2017, 11:40 AM
i tend to like this girl's reviews >


She sums it up pretty well.

A good time to quote this again for those who missed it. The petition is hitting about 60k signatures as of now:


Please sign this.

https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-have-disney-strike-star-wars-episode-viii-from-the-official-canon

ristoraven
12-23-2017, 11:59 AM
I am going to watch the original trilogy today. I noticed I haven't done that in 2017 yet. It's just something I need to do every year. :)

I am going to forget the prequels and sequels. They are just an ewok's dream after C3P0 told the frightening story at Endor parties.

kadri
12-23-2017, 03:28 PM
I used to talk and criticise Star Wars movies too very much in the past. But i think (mostly) like in the link below now. So when you lower your expectations like this, you go see it and block out the most awful-childish parts and still can kinda have fun. Or you don't watch it. Because all Star Wars movies will be kinda like this from now on. And people forget that it was said in the past that Star Wars is maybe the best Disney movie that Disney didn't make.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/12/op-ed-chill-out-everybody-star-wars-has-always-been-for-kids/

Ernest
12-23-2017, 05:24 PM
While almost everything about the story was risible, it has been well covered, so I want to post about the things that I liked.

The shots of the camera gliding over water: Beautiful!
The aerial shots of Luke's island: beautiful!
Snoke's throne room: beautiful!
The battle on white sands covering deep red soil: Beautiful!!
There were also a couple of long tracking shots that made me wonder if Cuaron had consulted for them.

gar26lw
12-23-2017, 06:49 PM
While almost everything about the story was risible, it has been well covered, so I want to post about the things that I liked.

The shots of the camera gliding over water: Beautiful!
The aerial shots of Luke's island: beautiful!
Snoke's throne room: beautiful!
The battle on white sands covering deep red soil: Beautiful!!
There were also a couple of long tracking shots that made me wonder if Cuaron had consulted for them.

the cg and creature design was awesome. it just goes to show that all that is cool but without a decent plot and character dev, it’s wasted. it might also show that in this day and age sparkly shiny things, cute critters and explosions are enough for the general public. i think that says even more about society as a whole and what we have become.

shrox
12-23-2017, 07:50 PM
I haven't seen the last three Star Wars movies.

ristoraven
12-24-2017, 04:38 PM
Here's great in depth analysis for why the last jedi is so bad movie. As painful as it is to listen I recommend. Also, that this is not focusing on SJW point of view (although it undeniably is there), but instead of how badly this was written. The fact that the script got green lighted in the Disney corporation tells about unbelievable levels of pure incompetence that is just beyond belief. Which is odd, since Kathleen Kennedy has been around as a producer for a long time and has participated in numerous classics. She should know better. Maybe she has indeed been introduced with some alien pods and there is just a replicant / AI, that has no ability for normal rational thought? Maybe George Lucas is also a pod clone, because he too seemed to have lost even the elementary skills of movie writing with the SW prequels. Joking aside, but how can someone loose the touch so badly as Lucas did? Does that come with the age? If so, I need to hurry up with my stuff, before I am too old to understand even the basics of what I am doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPP6MRoH9WA

wingzeta
12-24-2017, 07:13 PM
Like Lucas himself in a way, Kennedy rose to a level, where she had no one to answer to, so she just made the latest movie with all her personal bias, and lack of artistry. At the end of the day Lucas is a real artist, flaws and all, whereas she is a suit. A suit, who found a pliable, mediocre, director to do it her way. In the past she wouldn't dare tell someone like Spielberg or Lucas how to make their film, but supposedly she butted heads with JJ, and so went to find someone she could own. Enter Rian Johnson. It is one of the great disasters in cinema history, and the biggest shame is they have managed to keep it out of the press, so it hasn't hit their wallet yet. It also resembles a Star Wars film enough, that the average film goer who is more involved with their bucket of popcorn, might not notice what happened. They just assume they missed the explanation for the plot holes, during their trip to the bathroom when their chili-cheese-burger kicked in during the third act. And on that note...

Merry Christmas Lightwavers!

gar26lw
12-24-2017, 08:12 PM
i wonder what this means for the future movies

fablefox
12-24-2017, 11:16 PM
i wonder what this means for the future movies

Just like LW future!

No, I'm serious.

After the great silence, there will be large group of people who will wait to see how LW will handle future upgrade, before coming back to LW.

The same with SW. For some people (apparently, from articles that released now, instead of Disney kissing of -fan-don't-get-it yesterdays) quite large (the drop is around 70%?) SW is not about spaceship, aliens, and lightsaber. For them, its about Luke, Hans and Leia. It seems that the damage is done back in TFA. The money they made shows that some didn't bothered to return because for them, No Han = No Reason. And since they killed Luke, and well, you know about Leia. So, for quite a lot of people, SW have ended. Luke died. The curtain has falls. It's like the end of The Truman Show.

There will be future movies like there is the latest Terminator, or the one without Arnold. But the magic is gone.

gar26lw
12-25-2017, 01:20 AM
maybe they can resurrect luke somehow.

wingzeta
12-25-2017, 02:03 AM
maybe they can resurrect luke somehow.

Oh yeah, JJ will bring Luke back for sure. After Rian obliterated his story, he will reverse whatever he can in the next one. They had planned to make Leia the wise sage for the end, but that can't happen now, and it is open for Luke to rematerialize alive or as a force ghost. JJ will likely reveal Rey does actually have some origin story, and even the Snoke that was killed was just a clone, because clones do exist in this universe, and it will undo what Rian did, and make Snoke more formidable. No actual writer would keep Kylo and Hux, who are basically the same personality as the top bad guys. It is also possible that they have footage of Leia shot for this film, that they cut out to use in the next one. That way she can have some scenes, and an exit for her.

That said I won't see it in the theater, because they made it clear they don't want my money.

ristoraven
12-25-2017, 08:09 AM
Like Lucas himself in a way, Kennedy rose to a level, where she had no one to answer to, so she just made the latest movie with all her personal bias, and lack of artistry. At the end of the day Lucas is a real artist, flaws and all, whereas she is a suit. A suit, who found a pliable, mediocre, director to do it her way. In the past she wouldn't dare tell someone like Spielberg or Lucas how to make their film, but supposedly she butted heads with JJ, and so went to find someone she could own. Enter Rian Johnson. It is one of the great disasters in cinema history, and the biggest shame is they have managed to keep it out of the press, so it hasn't hit their wallet yet. It also resembles a Star Wars film enough, that the average film goer who is more involved with their bucket of popcorn, might not notice what happened. They just assume they missed the explanation for the plot holes, during their trip to the bathroom when their chili-cheese-burger kicked in during the third act. And on that note...

Merry Christmas Lightwavers!

Maybe, "unlimited" power makes some odd things to people.

However, if we look George Lucas's track record starting with THX 1138, then the American Graffitti, then the original SW, Indiana Jones, Willow... those are extremely well written, with a solid premises that holds from start to finish. With the SW prequels there's nothing left of that skill. There's no solid premises on those. They were written like a five year old would tell a story: "then this happens, then that and then this comes in and bang and stuff" all that without consequences, forgetting many times where the story was supposed to go, inventing new twists and new premises on the fly.. It's ad hoc writing and material what looks like done by someone with absolutely no idea what story writing is, has been or should be.. I find it hard to believe such skill would vanish, like it was never there. Maybe George have never written anything by himself but have bought / stolen the scripts from somewhere else?

This is just very bizarre what's going on. "I have a bad feeling about this".

PS. if it would turn out to be true that Kathleen Kennedy would have in fact written most of the scripts or forced JJ and Johnson to alter the premises of the independent scenes to fit into her own agendas, it reminded me of something I was wondering some times ago: how many of the wars in the history have been in fact proxy wars between two women, who just used "strong men" as their pawns?

ristoraven
12-25-2017, 08:20 AM
Oh yeah, JJ will bring Luke back for sure. After Rian obliterated his story, he will reverse whatever he can in the next one. They had planned to make Leia the wise sage for the end, but that can't happen now, and it is open for Luke to rematerialize alive or as a force ghost. JJ will likely reveal Rey does actually have some origin story, and even the Snoke that was killed was just a clone, because clones do exist in this universe, and it will undo what Rian did, and make Snoke more formidable. No actual writer would keep Kylo and Hux, who are basically the same personality as the top bad guys. It is also possible that they have footage of Leia shot for this film, that they cut out to use in the next one. That way she can have some scenes, and an exit for her.

That said I won't see it in the theater, because they made it clear they don't want my money.

Star Wars episode IX - The Ghost Wars

They resurrect Darth Vader, Obi Van, Yoda, Luke, Han.. then some lightning bolts fly around the space when the force would be fighting with itself. Kylo and Rey would get a room at the Casino and then would go hunt evil capitalists. PETA and Antifa would join the resistance and all those who opposes perfect equality would be killed. Universe would turn into a communist system - in a way that it has meant to be, but hasn't succeeded before.

Episode X - proletariat disunited
Episode XI - Fall of the Gulags

--

okay, I'll stop here. :)

blackmondy
12-25-2017, 10:30 AM
The best rant online :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QJRw56cOVw&t=260s

KurtF
12-25-2017, 10:46 AM
War is terrible. People die, both combatants and civilians. Entire economies destroyed. To quote an old philosopher "Wars not make one great." But of course he missed the point. War can make you RICH. It isn't called - "STAR PEACE" it's "Star Wars". And sadly, like the so called war on drugs or terrorism, it seems destined to go on forever. Making Disney rich. So does Disney care that it isn't well written, and does it even matter when the accountants and marketing departments are calling the shots? The only way to put an end to this war is to stop going to the theater, stop buying the toys, the shirts, anything having to do with it. Sadly, no matter how horrible the true face of war, audiences flock to it in droves, again and again.

Kaptive
12-25-2017, 12:50 PM
I haven't seen the last three Star Wars movies.

I watched them so that you didn't have to. You made a wise choice for the most part.
I find it hard to get past the idea that it is anything more than fan fiction, made by moderate(?) fans. The effects work is where the true fandom actually materialises. In terms of story, unless it is from George Ls head, then it isn't the same narrative thread... even if it sucked as well, it'd at least be authentic.

I don't hate the new movies, I'd just rather they actually put their money into new ideas and universes. Trying to follow on from A New Hope, Empire and Jedi i.e. the ultimate mythological tale (The hero with a thousand faces) they were bound to end up being lesser than the original.

Abrams was probably more in line with mimicking Star Wars, but still, he seems to go a bit stupid and short of the mark. I've not really gotten past the bit in The Force Awakens where everyone on a planet are watching space beams blow up other planets light years away like it is happening in their orbit. Even though the original Star Wars took liberties with physics, it wasn't totally dumb. The Death Star had to travel to its target.... Ben Kenobi felt a disturbance in the force when it was fired for the first time... relaying knowledge in a way that makes sense within the mechanics of the universe. People starring up into the sky to witness events light years away is just awful... the ******* worst. Rey should have had a vision as part of her "force surge" bit. Maz could have told her it is part of the Jedi way and confirmed what has happened through many of her contacts/customers.

Small moments like this can ruin a film, but that is just me.

Nit Picker out.
p.s. Not seen TLJ yet... might wait I think.

ristoraven
12-25-2017, 02:15 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/22/movies/star-wars-last-jedi-women-run-universe.html

That article explains in full what is going on here. In short, there is a small group of of social justice warriors in charge of Star Wars universe. This group was nominated by Kathleen Kennedy in 2012. This group had counted the number of minutes women had dialogue in past SW movies. The premise was to increase this number (or percentage) and add more diverse characters. That is the premise of these sequels. It is not about the story, the SW universe, but to increase the minutes and seconds of women talking and adding more diverse characters. The content what they talk about and what these diverse characters would actually do in the movie - is irrelevant. This explain why there is absolutely no sense in the movie. The premise is completely elsewhere!

Well, now I have seen talking women and diverse characters. I don't think I need to do that again. Han Solo movie? I may see it, if it gets to Netflicks, but I need to have my foot broken and seen all the rest of the Netflicks movies and series (minus all the other SJW propaganda pieces) prior to that.

MichaelT
12-25-2017, 02:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJlbPXZEpRE

shrox
12-25-2017, 04:12 PM
Gronk. Gronk gronk. Gronk.

djwaterman
12-25-2017, 05:42 PM
I enjoyed this well scripted and acted piece, I'm fairly sure it's better written than the film it references.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v2PV52WNLY

wingzeta
12-26-2017, 01:22 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/22/movies/star-wars-last-jedi-women-run-universe.html

That article explains in full what is going on here. In short, there is a small group of of social justice warriors in charge of Star Wars universe. This group was nominated by Kathleen Kennedy in 2012. This group had counted the number of minutes women had dialogue in past SW movies. The premise was to increase this number (or percentage) and add more diverse characters. That is the premise of these sequels. It is not about the story, the SW universe, but to increase the minutes and seconds of women talking and adding more diverse characters. The content what they talk about and what these diverse characters would actually do in the movie - is irrelevant. This explain why there is absolutely no sense in the movie. The premise is completely elsewhere!

Well, now I have seen talking women and diverse characters. I don't think I need to do that again. Han Solo movie? I may see it, if it gets to Netflicks, but I need to have my foot broken and seen all the rest of the Netflicks movies and series (minus all the other SJW propaganda pieces) prior to that.

Wow, I guess the story group was more involved than I thought. I figured because Dave Filoni, and I think Henry Gilroy, who headed up Clone Wars were in the group, they knew their stuff, and would have fought for continuity. This article shows the head of the group is more interested in hitting inclusivity metrics, than writing a story. Every time Hollywood tries to manufacture creativity with an algorithm, they fail miserably. It's anti-art. Kathleen Kennedy needs to go.

fablefox
12-26-2017, 02:19 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2017/09/07/kathleen-kennedy-star-wars-universe-safe-hands/

http://www.slashfilm.com/future-star-wars-films/

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/star-wars-han-solo-kathleen-kennedy-director-fired-1202473919/

We will find out soon.


https://screenrant.com/han-solo-movie-bomb-disney-lucasfilm/



Rumor Patrol – Disney Expecting Solo: A Star Wars Story To Bomb

magiclight
12-26-2017, 05:04 AM
There's no solid premises on those. They were written like a five year old would tell a story

Well, the prequels Lucas wrote around when he was 5 years old or so anyway so nothing strange with that ;) he usually does pretty good scripts as long as he stay away from the camera.

Disney on the other hand have only one single interest these days, squeeze out as much money as possible, nothing else matters.

I have not seen it yet but I can't imaging they can have messed it up as much as Luc besson managed to destroy the Valerian comic, no idea why they called it "Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets" it has nothing what so ever to do with the original story (I know they changed Empire to City but anyone that have read the original story will compare them, why couldn't they come up with some new title), and on top of that they let Luc Beson add his 5 year old style crap to it like he did with the 5th element, I don't understand why they let him continue but I guess there are people that like the rubbish.

TheLexx
12-26-2017, 06:49 AM
I've been in jobs where regular staff quietly notice the bosses always seem locked in endless meetings to congatulate each other over the slightest little thing, usually just an excuse to bring out the tea and biscuits. The loudest voices tend to be the most incompetent (though excelling at self-preservation, it has to be said).

The usual pattern is these people sometimes come unstuck when their conduct becomes exposed in the external environment, suddenly unable to cover themselves, and the company risks losing money and reputation. The bigger the job title, the bigger the blobby mess and cleanup afterwards. It is difficult to feel sympathy considering the sheer amount of debris and ache some of these people leave in their wake.

So if millions of Star Wars fans are noticing the wheels falling off the wagon, then there is a problem. Behind closed doors, the "bubbly fellow managers" may silently close ranks and plot their own Julius Caesar moment. The funny thing is this thread now almost guarantees me catching the film, plus the next one. I remember George Lucas getting into hot water for the "white slavers" remark (http://uk.businessinsider.com/george-lucas-says-he-sold-star-wars-to-white-slavers-2015-12?r=US&IR=T). Maybe his last three SW films will be revaluated after this.

"Et tu, Disne ?" :D

ristoraven
12-26-2017, 08:50 AM
I think the only way to save Star Wars is to make a new ewok movie. This happens right after the parties where C3PO told the frightening story. This left some ewoks so puzzled that they saw dreams and then told these dreams to each others the next day. These dreams would be flashbacks from the prequels (Jar Jar and all) and then the sequels. Make huge mush of everything and explain - it was just an ewoks dream, all of it. :)

Then remake the prequels and sequels - with zero tolerance to any god*amn politics. Just a story with ancient philosophy taken from where ever in the worlds vast history. Then add some classic ideas of warfare that are based on Sun Tzu strategies and tactics. It never gets old! Strong male and female characters. It is not so hard if one just understands, that strong person isn't the one who needs to push others down in orders to "appear strong". No, strong person is the one who can lift everybody else up too and who can kick asses of the baddies. Strong male characters gets laid - strong female character gets laid too. Great example, imo, of a strong female character is in Star Trek TNG episode "Captains Holiday". Meet Vash. Strong female characters absolutely loves strong male characters. And vice versa.

It shouldn't be this hard, ladies & gentlemen.

Digital Hermit
12-26-2017, 08:55 AM
I think Alien will always be better than the rest... oops, sorry wrong thread. :D

bazsa73
12-26-2017, 09:17 AM
I think Alien will always be better than the rest... oops, sorry wrong thread. :D

I agree. Alien is the best ever just as New Hope and Empire strikes back. These films are ethalons. The measure. The rest are feeble re-enactions of passed by impressions and emotions. If my silly english does make any sense dude. Cheers.

TheLexx
12-26-2017, 10:03 AM
Strong male characters gets laid - strong female character gets laid too.Or how about the tension thing, where they are attracted to each other and it is only a matter of time before they get laid.....but they never do. :D I'm thinking Avon/Cally B7, and they did an entire episode Sarcophagus based around that. Okay, getting off-topic but it is maybe worth a few comparisons and a little widening. :)

erikals
12-26-2017, 11:00 AM
i might skip the next Star Wars, and just rent it instead.

with the disappointment of "The Last Supper"

shrox
12-26-2017, 03:07 PM
https://youtu.be/Q4TX6x2WLgk

ianr
12-27-2017, 08:49 AM
I got my rad star wars kool aid! Want some!?

https://media.giphy.com/media/xULW8Ne6ougidxkjyE/giphy.gif


Obivously a 'Lacto Vegan' by the inane reaction on her boatrace?

ianr
12-27-2017, 09:18 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/22/movies/star-wars-last-jedi-women-run-universe.html

That article explains in full what is going on here. In short, there is a small group of of social justice warriors in charge of Star Wars universe. This group was nominated by Kathleen Kennedy in 2012. This group had counted the number of minutes women had dialogue in past SW movies. The premise was to increase this number (or percentage) and add more diverse characters. That is the premise of these sequels. It is not about the story, the SW universe, but to increase the minutes and seconds of women talking and adding more diverse characters. The content what they talk about and what these diverse characters would actually do in the movie - is irrelevant. This explain why there is absolutely no sense in the movie. The premise is completely elsewhere!

Well, now I have seen talking women and diverse characters. I don't think I need to do that again. Han Solo movie? I may see it, if it gets to Netflicks, but I need to have my foot broken and seen all the rest of the Netflicks movies and series (minus all the other SJW propaganda pieces) prior to that.

I SAW THIS LATE LAST NIGHT:( been busy)

Now this very Important I feel, shut in a room as the howling gales of cast couching whistle in from the land WineSteina. A putch happened somewhere for

this 'tatt 'to arrive in our laps. I have said before Sci-Fi is a HOLLOW CHURCH. If you remove the dynamic intra-human concern in relationships & truncate it

in the script...RESULT the Hero NO LONGER has a 1,000 Faces - it is the focus group now has a thousand faces & thousand vetoes.

Lucas took the filthy Dollar & has let Disney churn out 158 minutes of working progress (script-wise).

Dern wheeled on as a Nag, No gravitas, waste of a good actress.

Please Kathleen it's not a soiree with your female peers over a rousing drink by your Bel-Air pool, but bloody looks that way.

From someone who liked her Oscar winning movie.

I feel the 'coven of correctness' from behind the focus group doors would have made a far superior film !

Does 2 days on a Yoga mat in Burbank give the writers the experience to sinter ... bushido , kundalini & astral projection down to this ? I don't think so.

Ernest
12-27-2017, 01:29 PM
Obivously a 'Lacto Vegan' by the inane reaction on her boatrace?

Thank you Urban Dictionary!

hypersuperduper
12-28-2017, 04:52 AM
Unsurprisingly this thread is turning dank and smelly like a teenage boy’s bedsheets. The moment “SJW” was invoked it was bound to happen.

jeric_synergy
12-28-2017, 08:20 AM
People who use "SJW" as a pejorative are universally wankers.

wingzeta
12-28-2017, 03:33 PM
Must have missed the sjw comment. I have noticed a few articles like the ny times one mentioned that seemed to be aimed at changing the narrative from, "the movie sucks" to "The Last Jedi is a new social cause that is under attack". Such articles act as bait to get pissed off fans to throw an anti feminism barb into their rant about the film. Then the conversation triggers polarization, which forces some to defend the movie when they haven't even seen it. It is a sophisticated tactic from Disney, and it may make them some money. Ticket sales for the movie fell off hard once word got out it sucks. Now they may pick up, as curious people who don't want the annoying fanboys to be right, may go to see for themselves. If they are not very knowledgeable about SW, they may even enjoy the film on a base level. They will use the fan's enthusiasm against them, this time, but ultimately they will pay the price as those are the people who are engaged in the brand, and normally spend a lot of money on it. It may become trendy for a minute to defend Last Jedi, but not for the long term customers.

shrox
12-28-2017, 04:18 PM
Must have missed the sjw comment. I have noticed a few articles like the ny times one mentioned that seemed to be aimed at changing the narrative from, "the movie sucks" to "The Last Jedi is a new social cause that is under attack". Such articles act as bait to get pissed off fans to throw an anti feminism barb into their rant about the film. Then the conversation triggers polarization, which forces some to defend the movie when they haven't even seen it. It is a sophisticated tactic from Disney, and it may make them some money. Ticket sales for the movie fell off hard once word got out it sucks. Now they may pick up, as curious people who don't want the annoying fanboys to be right, may go to see for themselves. If they are not very knowledgeable about SW, they may even enjoy the film on a base level. They will use the fan's enthusiasm against them, this time, but ultimately they will pay the price as those are the people who are engaged in the brand, and normally spend a lot of money on it. It may become trendy for a minute to defend Last Jedi, but not for the long term customers.

The key word here is "Disney".

probiner
12-28-2017, 06:01 PM
People who use "SJW" as a pejorative are universally wankers.

It's pejorative because of the pejorative actions of those that state to spouse it and twist it for ideological reasons, not practical ones. SJWs are the real wankers here, if you get my broad brush generalization about people trying to capitalize on someone else's victim-hood status to justify aggression against opponents :D

jeric_synergy
12-28-2017, 07:03 PM
Test confirmed.

shrox
12-28-2017, 07:18 PM
I guess it's game ovary now...

mosconariz
12-28-2017, 08:16 PM
I really appreciated this new version, with all the nuances, with no midiclorians. The Force is something accesible to all. Jedi was like any religion. Great movie. As funny, exciting and unpredictable as the first trilogy (IV, V, VI)

probiner
12-29-2017, 01:52 AM
Test confirmed.

https://media.giphy.com/media/ZEVc9uplCUJFu/giphy.gif

hypersuperduper
12-29-2017, 03:12 AM
Take this **** somewhere else.

Kaptive
12-29-2017, 04:15 AM
Well, having seen it now, I don't hate it. In fact, it was ok. The "funny bits" did fall flat and were awfully placed, totally out of keeping with their surrounding tone. I think Disney is scared of consistant darker periods in a film. Re-edited, it could be a really good Star Wars film. Take out some of the jokes, chop down a storyline that seems like filler...

Perhaps the real issue is that the original movies, and then the prequels were written as 3 film arcs. However, Rian Johnson seems to have just made a film that tries to conclude all the earlier films and break it open for a fresh start... a fresh start going into the 3rd film of a trilogy with little to resolve except rebels vs empire. Like Empire Strikes Back, it should have been a narrative bridge between the first one and the last one. But when you invest billions in a property, you want this story to go on and on forever, so trilogies are a hindrence. So, it has become the Neverending Story... or war.

Anyway, it wasn't awful, it was interesting, and covered some pretty deep themes in a minimal way. A lot of it has been misinterpretted I think. As a film (compared to others) it wasn't a waste of my time. As an actual Star Wars film, it is struggling with the constraints of the narrative universe and doesn't know where to go without repeating itself over and over. We're a pretty well versed audience at this point and we've seen so many ideas... many of them derived or inspired by Star Wars itself, so how do they show us something new and take it beyond?

The only way I can see them moving beyond in the next film is to have an outside threat (another galactic empire from another galaxy?) totally upset the status quo. The rebels and empire being attacked, and then a new unification between the factions... maybe a breakdown of the empire in function, and lots of old Empire tech being converted to fight this new force. Modded stormtrooper armour being used by civilians of our galaxy who are helping the fight... that kind of thing. At this point, the empire costumes are a cultural icon, so it would seem right to appropriate them and turn them to something good. Anyway, just some ideas. I'm actually wondering if this is where Rian Johnson is intending to go with his announced next trilogy ( !? ) It is the most logical expansion, but keeps us in the same universe. It would also follow on from some of the themes in The Last Jedi... a bit.

I doubt Disney read these boards.

probiner
12-29-2017, 04:39 AM
Take this **** somewhere else.

That's exactly what people are saying to Disney about co-opting and twisting established characters and universes with ideological schlock in detriment of doing actual good development, specially with the truckload of money that is poured into these...

https://i.imgur.com/vof4R7B.png

And it's not just StarWars, since Disney now owns a lot of stuff. Just read about Marvel and how their sales dunked with such practices.

hypersuperduper
12-29-2017, 05:11 AM
I’m not talking about Star Wars. I’m talking about “sjw” “triggered” and all this other alt-right nonsense being thrown about by a bunch of nitwits. This is not supposed to be a political forum. If you want that go spew bile in a damn YouTube comment section or something.

wingzeta
12-29-2017, 05:13 AM
The only way I can see them moving beyond in the next film is to have an outside threat (another galactic empire from another galaxy?) totally upset the status quo. The rebels and empire being attacked, and then a new unification between the factions... maybe a breakdown of the empire in function, and lots of old Empire tech being converted to fight this new force. Modded stormtrooper armour being used by civilians of our galaxy who are helping the fight... that kind of thing. At this point, the empire costumes are a cultural icon, so it would seem right to appropriate them and turn them to something good. Anyway, just some ideas. I'm actually wondering if this is where Rian Johnson is intending to go with his announced next trilogy ( !? ) It is the most logical expansion, but keeps us in the same universe. It would also follow on from some of the themes in The Last Jedi... a bit.

I doubt Disney read these boards.

And therein lies one of the many problems with the Last Jedi. Nothing much happens. Off the top of your head, in a post where you are saying the film is not that bad, you invent a plot 10x more interesting than anything in the TLJ. I would love to see something like what you are talking about. In fact there was some stuff like that in the novels that Disney struck from cannon. For many reasons the film went nowhere, and did nothing. The characters are in the exact situation they were in when it started. If they wanted to go somewhere new, they should have done that. They didn't need a crap movie, to clear the board of old plot threads / characters, so that they can make a good movie later. Make a good movie with new things now. It is exactly as you say, the movie didn't set up what could or should come next, it just tried to make what came before irrelevant.

I can't agree that the film is being misunderstood. I think it is being understood perfectly. It was attempt to "disrupt" because that is the perceived flavor of the moment in everything. Unfortunately, the hipster director who tried to "disrupt" SW didn't make the film work on its own merits. He is too much of a lightweight as a writer to follow through with anything of substance. If you are going to be bold, you have to deliver, or you fall on your face. He wanted to disrupt all the things people liked about SW, but gave us nothing new to replace it, just a senseless plot, and no character development. Tell me one character who changed from the start of the film to the end, and how that change was earned on screen. Then ask did that character already make that change in the previous film? There is so little actual substance in the film, that the biggest character change would be a character dying, or Luke changing his mind with no real build up to it or reasoning for it.

Remember those valet guys in Ferris Bueller's Day Off that take the Ferrari for a joy ride around the city? Rian Johnson was handed the keys to the Ferrari, but he didn't take it for a joy ride, he just crashed it into the nearest wall at slow speed, and said "Woopsie." He F-ed up a classic, but the twat didn't even drive it fast first.

TheLexx
12-29-2017, 06:12 AM
I’m not talking about Star Wars. I’m talking about “sjw” “triggered” and all this other alt-right nonsense being thrown about by a bunch of nitwits. This is not supposed to be a political forum. If you want that go spew bile in a damn YouTube comment section or something.

But are people being poliitcal or just reflecting if there is such an agenda in the production ? We see this sort of thing from time to time in other areas. Whenever James Bond comes up for renewal, there tends to intensified debate over Bond becoming black, presumably to "right some wrong". Or a female Doctor Who (which has now happened). And the customer is increasingly targeted in the media if they question that for not being "on message".

A writer can do whatever they want, but if these antics become defined as the actual story, then something strikes me as wrong. If the story is true that Kathleen Kennedy timed all the previous male/female roles to see the ratio, then decided to "do something about it", then surely there is a political dimension ? Did previous female fans of SW ask her to do that ? They seem pretty offended too. Any viewer should be allowed to perceive these things, then object to it freely without being labelled themselves (?). Insulting the customer can't become the new norm. :)

probiner
12-29-2017, 06:40 AM
I’m not talking about Star Wars. I’m talking about “sjw” “triggered” and all this other alt-right nonsense being thrown about by a bunch of nitwits. This is not supposed to be a political forum. If you want that go spew bile in a damn YouTube comment section or something.

Spewing bile is exactly what you and jeric are doing with ethos argumentation with 'alt-right', 'nitwits', 'universally wankers'.

We're not discussing politics for politics sake, we're precisely showing contempt for power hungry ideological forces degrading the characters and universes we enjoy by converting them into mouthpieces/examples of their ideas, which most people reject on their own. We want our entertainment WITHOUT such political appropriations, specially at the level of production itself, even though, it's perfectly normal for art to have political readings and be debated on that basis.

The SJW mention fits many of the lines in the mentioned nytimes article where it boasts about women participation as seen in:

" Using computer software that analyzes the content of movies, Shrikanth Narayanan and the University of Southern California’s Signal Analysis and Interpretation Lab found that women spoke 6.3 percent of dialogue in “A New Hope,” the 1977 film that kicked off the franchise. In contrast, women accounted for 27.8 percent of all dialogue in “The Force Awakens” in 2015. Even more promising, in “Rogue One” (2016) nonwhite characters accounted for 44.7 percent of all dialogue, a marked increase from zero in the 1977 original."

These metrics are not how you measure a good movie, but they fit a political agenda, not an artistic one.

Stop shutting down discussions you can't handle.

hypersuperduper
12-29-2017, 06:42 AM
People are being political. “social justice warrior” is a political statement in itself. it is a slur. There is no way around it. if you want to debate the political ramifications of Star Wars, fine. Just not here. This forum is toxic enough as it is. I am frankly amazed that Steve hasn’t already swooped in And squashed it.

hypersuperduper
12-29-2017, 06:49 AM
Spewing bile is exactly what you and jeric are doing with ethos argumentation with 'alt-right', 'nitwits', 'universally wankers'.

We're not discussing politics for politics sake, we're precisely showing contempt for power hungry ideological forces degrading the characters and universes we enjoy by converting them into mouthpieces/examples of their ideas, which most people reject on their own. We want our entertainment WITHOUT such political appropriations, specially at the level of production itself, even though, it's perfectly normal for art to have political readings and be debated on that basis.

The SJW mention fits many of the lines in the mentioned nytimes article where it boasts about women participation as seen in:


These metrics are not how you measure a good movie, but they fit a political agenda, not an artistic one.

Stop shutting down discussions you can't handle.

I can handle most anything, but forgive me if I don’t feel a discussion about the political ramifications of star wars the last Jedi is entirely appropriate on a forum for 3D software. Particularly when it immediately starts with SJW which is one of the most loaded political terms currently in use. There is a reason why politics is not acceptable discussion generally here and that’s because it makes people angry.

I can’t shut down your discussion anyways, but I can point out a bit of lazy politicking when I see it.

SBowie
12-29-2017, 06:49 AM
Consider this a swoop ... y'all have made your positions clear vis a vis how political philosophies can overlay the artistic realm, now kindly knock off the political sideswiping.

probiner
12-29-2017, 07:01 AM
Yeah Steve, could you please address this person trying to mis-characterize, control and shut down discussion because it got triggered with the mention of SJW, when it clearly applies to the production practices? I mean all he added was attacks, derail and nothing on the topic of the movie itself. Thanks.

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9Igo5gVZhE910Ig0/giphy.gif

SBowie
12-29-2017, 07:06 AM
Yeah Steve, could you please address this person trying to mis-characterize, control and shut down discussion because it got triggered with the mention of SJW, when it clearly applies to the production practices? I mean all he added was attacks, derail and nothing on the topic of the movie itself. Thanks.I haven't followed this discussion closely enough to even guess which way you mean to lean on this, but anyway, will reiterate one more time - kindly knock it off.

GandB
12-29-2017, 07:06 AM
All politics aside; we saw it.

To me; it was worth a watch, but I was disappointed in both the over-the-top humor (don't get me wrong, I did laugh) and the scattered story-line. When "The Force Awakens" trailer first aired; I felt extreme nostalgia and giddy excitement (especially when the Millennium Falcon appeared, along with Han and Chewie). THAT movie was worthy of praise, and continued the "feel" of Star Wars...while introducing new characters and ideas. Even Rogue One (the tie-together movie) feels more complete and relevant than The Last Jedi. Two of what should have been critical moments in "The Last Jedi": Luke being handed his lightsaber, and Yoda mocking the books of Jedi Knowledge (then burning it down); were handled very poorly, and took away from the Star Wars "feel". To me; this was EXTREMELY lazy on Disney's part. Although good for a quick laugh; it was more of something you should see in a bloopers reel.

They dropped the ball with this one....and then deflated it for good measure. There were some good moments, to be sure, in this movie. But, in my opinion, they did damage to the Star Wars Legacy here.

hypersuperduper
12-29-2017, 07:06 AM
Yeah Steve, could you please address this person trying to mis-characterize, control and shut down discussion because it got triggered with the mention of SJW, when it clearly applies to the production practices? I mean all he added was attacks, derail and nothing on the topic of the movie itself. Thanks.

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9Igo5gVZhE910Ig0/giphy.gif

Ok. Your tag says you are from Portugal so maybe this is something you are not aware of, but using “social justice warrior” sends a pretty clear signal. It is not a neutral descriptor. It is not like saying conservative or liberal. It’s like saying “fascist” to refer to conservatives. If you did not know this, now you do.

SBowie
12-29-2017, 07:08 AM
If you did not know this, now you do.We're done with this now. No more warnings.

hypersuperduper
12-29-2017, 07:09 AM
Understood. Sorry.

TheLexx
12-29-2017, 07:17 AM
I can see that responding to the notion of a poliical agenda by labelling a person, even a powerful executive of a company like Disney, could be seen as escalation. I was merely hoping to caution of the same thing happening in reverse to any viewer of a film, but yes, I'm definitely not up for offending anyone on purpose. Noted Steve, many thanks (+ sorry anyone). :)

One intriguing thing - "using computer software that analyzes the content of movies".....what kind of software would that be ?

erikals
12-29-2017, 07:23 AM
well, Steve does have a point. it is political, and political agendas aren't allowed in this forum.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jVU7JrnPMQ


it's the new trend, and we are forced (got that? Forced?.. like in the Fo.... agh, never mind my bad humor)
we are forced to deal with the new SJW trend, or forced to ignore it.

however, once we get into discussing how bad or Fantastic SJW is, it gets political.


and political discussions always end up in a bad mess.

hypersuperduper
12-29-2017, 07:24 AM
Ok since I “derailed this thread” I will do my part to put it back in track by contributing my thoughts about the movie more specifically.

I thought the movie was so so. If I were to rank it I would put it somewhere around revenge the sith or attack of the clones. All three of these movies did what I thought were pretty interesting things with the star wars mythos but suffered from poor storytelling and plot issues.

I liked that the last Jedi finally put the hero’s journey to bed. That story has been told enough times . I really liked that all the heroic swashbuckling attempts to save the day failed and in the end it was relatively faceless selfless characters who did the most important stuff. I like the fact that the resistance was utterly crushed, but the seeds of a new rebellion were clearly sowed. I really liked Luke Skywalkers ruthlessly pessimistic assessment of the legacy of the Jedi order. And his ultimate embrace of a hope in the new generation.

I HATED the space bombers with bomb bay doors and falling Bombs. that was mind-bogglingly stupid.
I HATED the whole “keep out of range slow motion chase. It made no sense.
I HATED that lightspeeding through a super mega star destroyer thingy destroyed it. It looked cool but made no sense.
I didn’t like the whole casino planet arc. It was just not very good.

I went into the movie with pretty low expectations, and was neither impressed nor disappointed. I do appreciate that the movie was far more thought provoking that the force awakens, which I did not expect.

ActionBob
12-29-2017, 07:24 AM
But are people being poliitcal or just reflecting if there is such an agenda in the production ? We see this sort of thing from time to time in other areas. Whenever James Bond comes up for renewal, there tends to intensified debate over Bond becoming black, presumably to "right some wrong". Or a female Doctor Who (which has now happened). And the customer is increasingly targeted in the media if they question that for not being "on message".

A writer can do whatever they want, but if these antics become defined as the actual story, then something strikes me as wrong. If the story is true that Kathleen Kennedy timed all the previous male/female roles to see the ratio, then decided to "do something about it", then surely there is a political dimension ? Did previous female fans of SW ask her to do that ? They seem pretty offended too. Any viewer should be allowed to perceive these things, then object to it freely without being labelled themselves (?). Insulting the customer can't become the new norm. :)



This.....

-Adrian

SBowie
12-29-2017, 07:44 AM
well, Steve does have a point.It can happen, occasionally. On topic, hopefully without resurrecting contention, for better or worse, I don't think it's so unusual for a franchise to respond to shifting public mores over the decades ... nor necessarily wrong in and of itself to do so.

For some time now, for lack of anything interesting on TV, I've been watching old Barney Miller reruns. I loved the show, which as most will know comedically portrays the daily trials of 'the 12th Precinct', under the auspices of an exceptionally open-minded and progressive captain. And yet, I've been surprised more than once as it exhibited rather parochial views on issues in ways that would never fly today.

Today's society has pretty firmly left a least some outmoded thinking in the past, and the series - enlightened as it was for its day - was nevertheless still coming to terms with the formative beginnings of notions that today are broadly viewed as norms across the political spectrum, if perhaps only as lip service on the part of some. At the time, I've no doubt some found the show to be leftist, politically correct propaganda ... but looking back, I can see things that both left and right today would find rather shocking.

With this in mind, maybe we need a little distance from TLJ before making final judgement. We're all changing, all the time, and perhaps should only really worry if we aren't.

hypersuperduper
12-29-2017, 07:53 AM
I think that when a huge Hollywood production like star wars makes what are pretty clearly appeals to political correctness it is not due to some hidden agenda but due to purely economic reasons. They want to reach the most people and offend the least. This is the way it has always been, it’s just the definition of political correctness that changes over time.

ianr
12-29-2017, 08:07 AM
Okay why don't why look at VFX's. (enough of that dialogue script)

I personally loved the plushness of most things in the Casino City on Canto Blight

The costumery and its' ambience I though delivered a good rich environ.

Did you the the Drycleaners Steam-Iron landing like a space ship, they made it

a ' Ridley Hommage' with the same angled landing as on LV233 world as in Prom?(Lol)

SBowie
12-29-2017, 08:10 AM
Okay why don't why look at VFX's. (enough of that dialogue script)What an excellent idea.

erikals
12-29-2017, 08:15 AM
And yet, I've been surprised more than once as it exhibited rather parochial views on issues in ways that would never fly today.
it never ran over here, looked nice, did a Google, and the first thing i see in that Youtube video is a man smoking. :)


but looking back, I can see things that both left and right today would find rather shocking.
With this in mind, maybe we need a little distance from TLJ before making final judgement. We're all changing, all the time, and perhaps should only really worry if we aren't.

well, in all honesty, SJW isn't TLJ's biggest hurdle.
and to some degree, change is good.

also, i guess it was more or less given what route SW would take after Disney came aboard.


oh well, it's just a movie.

https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/emojione/assets/3.0/png/32/1f3ac.png

probiner
12-29-2017, 09:19 AM
I haven't followed this discussion closely enough to even guess which way you mean to lean on this, but anyway, will reiterate one more time - kindly knock it off.
Just scroll the posts... The double standards are obvious. Accusations of using slurs while using slurs on others, attempts to shut down discussion, characterizing someone's discourse as political while keeping talking about ideological crap.
I've dealt with such types, Steve, it's the kind that prefers to put up a shitshow and burn the house if it means to stay on top, silence others, while not playing by the same standards they judge others by.


it is political, and political agendas aren't allowed in this forum.
Oy Erikals, we pointing out that people working on the movie by their own words are pushing ideology by twisting the filmaking of an established legacy is not political. We did not appeal to any political party of policy. It's only being characterized that way by those seeking to stifle the statement of such clear decay of writing in favor of ideological pushes, whom used political epithet as "alt-right" which are in fact political, unlike SJW which is an ideology that has been set to bring about cultural changes, corrupting public discourse to monopolize the market of ideas. Someone pointing that out, is perceived by them as political, because they themselves are being political by doing such power moves on someone's ability to speak their mind.
So hang in there...


I think that when a huge Hollywood production like star wars makes what are pretty clearly appeals to political correctness it is not due to some hidden agenda but due to purely economic reasons. They want to reach the most people and offend the least. This is the way it has always been, it’s just the definition of political correctness that changes over time.

Sorry are we talking of toddlers shows? No we aren't... There's no proven economic benefit to use such metrics to revamp movies, on the contrary... Look at Ghostbusters, look at Marvel comics.
Why instead of co-opting don't these people create their own IP, if they think there's such a public demand for it? Because there isn't...
If you're arguing about inclusion by excluding people, your not being inclusive, you're just replacing people and being sly about the way you word it. It's not a hidden agenda, when it's stated clearly, but hey, your tag says you're from Sweden, and we know how you guys are doing with pointing the obvious...


Okay why don't why look at VFX's.

What an excellent idea.
Because VFX in Hollywood system has been competent for many years now and there's little to criticize there... Last Jedi VFX was really nice from start to finish... There's little to discuss here... If Leia flies in space or the bombs drop with gravity is not the VFX people fault.
VFX is the least of the issues people raise when talking about their falling away from new movies recently, but direction, writing, pacing, etc with the added layer very common since the 2000's of "how does this relate to the previous material" with all the reboots, remakes, yada, yada, in a time where we can easily re-watch older stuff, unlike theater plays... At most VFX is the only guarantee when going to the cinema for a thrill, for a ride, for a pleasant suspension of disbelief, right before a character does something really stupid regarding what the movie itself setup, that no render farm could fix, taking you away from the movie. And that nytimes article is an example of the reason why not even the best VFX can trick you into liking bad writing for bad reasons. Same is true for other movies for other reasons. e.g. Transformers.

The only chuckle the non-stop gratuitous humor got me, was the reaction of the two island villagers when Rey saber cut makes a boulder almost kill them.

The rest, this vid sums it up pretty nicely:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v2PV52WNLY

hypersuperduper
12-29-2017, 09:29 AM
Probiner. don’t presume to know me or my “type”.

ianr
12-29-2017, 09:38 AM
Because VFX in Hollywood system has been competent for many years now and there's little to criticize there... Last Jedi VFX was really nice from start to finish... There's little to discuss here...
VFX is the least of the issues people raise when talking about their falling away from new movies recently, but direction, writing, pacing, etc with the added layer very common since the 2000's of "how does this relate to the previous material" with all the reboots, remakes, yada, yada, in a time where we can easily re-watch older stuff, unlike theater plays... At most VFX is the only guarantee when going to the cinema for a thrill, for a ride, for a pleasant suspension of disbelief, right before a character does something really stupid, that no render farm could fix, taking you away from the movie. And that nytimes article is an example of the reason why not even the best VFX can't trick you into liking bad writing for bad reasons. Same is true for other movies which actually have a much more market driven tactics but are unwatchable to anyone with the least of self-respect. e.g. Transformers.

The only chuckle the non-stop gratuitous humor got me, was the reaction of the two island villagers when Rey saber cut makes a boulder almost kill them.



This opening sentence is too short sighted & unwanted ... There are varying degrees of VFX to discuss... Which been discussed here on this forum.

The trade off of good design against execution, the trade off here of trying to emulate a scene with these forum tools.

The question of taste verses overkill in many depts of a CGI production. Try One?

We are in a VFX forum and we should be speaking fineessing,crafting , etc not rolling about with verbable dimissives doh!

hypersuperduper
12-29-2017, 09:42 AM
Agreed.

SBowie
12-29-2017, 09:44 AM
Just scroll the posts... The double standards are obvious. Accusations of using slurs while using slurs on others, attempts to shut down discussion, characterizing someone's discourse as political while keeping talking about ideological crap.Forgive me for not bothering. I came in to work today, despite being on holidays until next Tuesday, for a specific reason - which wasn't drilling down to see who cast the first stone in this topic tangent.

The points both sides wanted to make have been made; from here on both sides are just racking up demerits, and my delete button is going to get some exercise.

Rayek
12-29-2017, 10:07 AM
I HATED the space bombers with bomb bay doors and falling Bombs. that was mind-bogglingly stupid.
I HATED the whole “keep out of range slow motion chase. It made no sense.
I HATED that lightspeeding through a super mega star destroyer thingy destroyed it. It looked cool but made no sense.


While I was watching these (and other) sequences, I had to keep reminding myself that SW is really no more than magical fantasy with an ultra-thin layer of science fiction. The problem with the latest movies is that ALL common sense is thrown out of the window - including the baby and the bath water.

I mean, the bombing sequence made no sense whatsoever - no-one thought of cruise missiles in the SW universe? And if light-speeding with a small spaceship through an insanely big destroyer turns out to be so devastatingly effective, why hasn't anyone fitted some light drives on a bunch of missiles or smaller ships before?

Why would the last tactical "genius" remain behind on a doomed ship, if a droid would have sufficed, or even remote control? I take it these ships probably have droid-level AI, right? Why is anyone needed to steer the ship at all? Why would the rebellion sacrifice its last "clever" admiral like that in the first place? What a dire and nonsensical waste of resources.

Why would any sane general keep chasing a couple of rebel ships at low speed? Why not split up, have a couple of destroyers jump ahead of the rebels, and attack from all sides? Why are all ships behaving as if they are traveling on a flat plane (space is a 3d space, isn't it?). For heaven's sake, why didn't that empire commander at least send out scores of tie fighters to destroy the remaining rebel ships? Why chase at all? Why not make use of your basic military resources? Why didn't they demolish the engines instead of the bridge, risking losing vital information? Why grant those rebels so much time to regroup or potentially come up with a brilliant counter-attack plan?

Why bother placing that huge gun on the ground, limiting its energy source and warm-up time? The Death Star warmed up much faster. Wouldn't a newer and smaller version have less technical limitations, rather than more? And when they have access to such a gun, why not install it on those star destroyers, and use it to blow the rebels out of the sky in the first place? Or from orbit?

Throughout the movie it's a long list of stupid things like that. Illogical (inanely stupid) military moves and decisions. Characters behaving like stupid morons. Physics utterly ignored - worse, common sense swept aside. Sure, the SW universe never made much sense in the first place. It's not exactly hard core SF, of course. But watching this latest movie I thought to myself that the makers must either A) have no physics education at all (or consciously decided to ignore it), or B) think the audience must be total nitwits without a shred of critical thinking or knowledge. Probably C): both.

Of course, that is to be expected. At least there's The Expanse to look forward to next year, where actual physics is taken into consideration.

shrox
12-29-2017, 10:10 AM
There is not enough speaking time given to male characters in Lifetime network movies. I am hurt...

hypersuperduper
12-29-2017, 10:15 AM
Ahhh... The expanse!. Imagine what they could do with a budget! I found the repeated ‘pretending to be immobilized by high g-forces’ shtick hilariously bad but also endearing in its amateurishness.

wingzeta
12-29-2017, 03:29 PM
I think the makers of the Expanse could have made a better SW movie than Last Jedi, with only the budget of a single episode of the Expanse. It comes down to writing. Put good writing and a healthy budget together, and we could have had a new SW film worth being excited about.

Markc
01-21-2018, 03:17 AM
The funny thing is I saw the original 3 at cinema and have them on vhs/Laserdisc/dvd, which I have watched tons of times, even when they are on tv, you can't help watching them.
Whereas eps 1,2,3, I saw at cinema, bought and watched on dvd, and never watched again.
Saw recent 2 new ones (whatever there called) at cinema......no home version bought.
Not seen the new one (that stupid furry thing in the falcon clip just tipped it over the edge......:2guns:)

Rant over...:D
Ok I did a full 360, and went to see TLJ to decide for myself.
I was very disappointed.......it was pretty much what I was expecting from Disney.
Far too much tongue in cheek/sickly sweet stuff (like the chewie bbq scene).

gar26lw
01-21-2018, 04:55 AM
SW is now SJW. that’s it. it’s **** with a big dose of **** thrown on top for good measure.

i think the writer director secretly hated SW and actively set out to destroy it. either that or he’s a complete cretin.

such a shame for all the people who’ve worked so hard on the movie, finely crafting a turd ball and polishing that **** til it shines.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/324/172/db7.gif