PDA

View Full Version : Substance Plugin



RPSchmidt
12-18-2017, 12:00 PM
I read these staff replies to an old post on Allegorithmic's forums re: Lightwave Substance Plugin When?


Hi guyz,

It's mainly a decision from Lightwave to make the plugin happen, so you can go and ask for it on their forum as well ;)

Cheers,
Nicolas



Hi,

The support would need to come from NewTek. If we are contacted by NewTek to integrate Substance, then we would look at it. We definitely always want to support request from our community, but we have to weigh in the dev resources as well. With an integration, we need support from the engineers in the host application as well.

Cheers,

Wes

I've seen many posts in reference to Substance Painter here, and many of them seem to give the impression that Allegorithmic isn't interested in making a plugin for Lightwave. These two replies from Allegorithmic staff members appear to indicate that isn't the case, and that rather, they need Newtek to initiate it.

With the release of Lightwave 2018, wouldn't this be the ideal time to approach Allegorithmic and get a Lightwave Substance plugin off the ground?

omichon
12-18-2017, 12:21 PM
I just noticed that .lwo support has been removed from Substance Painter build 2017.4.1 :bangwall:
I wonder if it was a request from the user community 8~

rustythe1
12-18-2017, 12:24 PM
not the same thing, but ODtools has a substance reader, will be released the same day so would you need a plugin? https://vimeo.com/247086500

they also have a PBR importer for PBR materials

unstable
12-18-2017, 12:38 PM
not the same thing, but ODtools has a substance reader, will be released the same day so would you need a plugin? https://vimeo.com/247086500

they also have a PBR importer for PBR materials

Is this going to be something free or do you have to pay? I saw someone say in another thread we needed OD_Tools and I think that is $35 or so. Algorithmic plugins are free I believe.

gar26lw
12-18-2017, 12:49 PM
I just noticed that .lwo support has been removed from Substance Painter build 2017.4.1 :bangwall:
I wonder if it was a request from the user community 8~

oh great :(

DogBoy
12-18-2017, 01:01 PM
Is this going to be something free or do you have to pay? I saw someone say in another thread we needed OD_Tools and I think that is $35 or so. Algorithmic plugins are free I believe.

Paid for and it might be a little more than that, but has a metric buttload of functionality across the whole suite.

Greenlaw
12-18-2017, 04:50 PM
OD Tools costs quite a bit more than that for new users, but it's well worth it, IMO. I've only used a few tools but it's more than paid for itself in the time I saved on otherwise tedious activity. Origami Digital is offering a pre-release sale for $129.95.

Substance Reader is a separate product that you will be able to purchase for around $20. (Note: this tool doesn't come with OD Tools. I'm not a Substance user but I'm finally looking into it now that there's LW support. If you really need this capability, $20 seems like a fantastic deal to me.)

There's a little more info at the OD website (http://origamidigital.com/newtypo/index.php/software.html).

Greenlaw
12-18-2017, 05:27 PM
Just so there's no confusion, OD Tools does come with PBR Importer, which works in a more general way. I haven't tried it yet but it works with 'standard' output from programs like 3D Coat, Substance, and ShaderMap Pro.

gar26lw
12-18-2017, 06:25 PM
substance support should be native. especially for attracting new users.

MichaelT
12-18-2017, 06:37 PM
I read these staff replies to an old post on Allegorithmic's forums re: Lightwave Substance Plugin When?






I've seen many posts in reference to Substance Painter here, and many of them seem to give the impression that Allegorithmic isn't interested in making a plugin for Lightwave. These two replies from Allegorithmic staff members appear to indicate that isn't the case, and that rather, they need Newtek to initiate it.

With the release of Lightwave 2018, wouldn't this be the ideal time to approach Allegorithmic and get a Lightwave Substance plugin off the ground?

The've been saying that for years now. It is not like they don't want to help.. its because LWG doesn't contact them. Why they haven't would be interesting to know. Any company interested in growth would implement their tool, there is just no other way around it. It is an industry standard now.
No jab against OD_Tools, I'm sure its great. I just think this particular thing should be native. Maybe he should get in touch with LWG (honestly)

Marander
12-18-2017, 11:55 PM
substance support should be native. especially for attracting new users.

Exactly! LW2018 users need OD Tools, OD Substance, 3rd Powers WeightPaint, LWCAD and some others like Rhiggit to work properly in LW. Not so attractive anymore.


The've been saying that for years now. It is not like they don't want to help.. its because LWG doesn't contact them. Why they haven't would be interesting to know. Any company interested in growth would implement their tool, there is just no other way around it. It is an industry standard now.
No jab against OD_Tools, I'm sure its great. I just think this particular thing should be native. Maybe he should get in touch with LWG (honestly)

Exactly. Allegorithmic is a very open company and for sure would have supported NewTek. Puts the LW development to a shame what one guy did alone that should have been native.

DogBoy
12-19-2017, 04:37 AM
Exactly! LW2018 users need OD Tools, OD Substance, 3rd Powers WeightPaint, LWCAD and some others like Rhiggit to work properly in LW. Not so attractive anymore.

No, you would need those. You are a subset of the LW community. Not everyone will need Substance support. Not everyone would need RHiggit, or LWCAD. I do agree that you are going to have to give thought to what the cost of moving to LW2018 will be.

gar26lw
12-19-2017, 05:03 AM
No, you would need those. You are a subset of the LW community. Not everyone will need Substance support. Not everyone would need RHiggit, or LWCAD. I do agree that you are going to have to give thought to what the cost of moving to LW2018 will be.

i donít know. i own just about all apart from the new od 2018, which i will own jan1st.

iíd say itís spot on to need these tools to patch lw up to a decent level.

nobody i know is going to look at lw if there isnít native substance support. sends a message. says sub par compared to every other tool. lightwaves name needs to be present in the lineup of supported apps for other applications. thatís marketing, thatís sending a message that says, hey we are here, we are relevant, we are future proof, we are good.

lardbros
12-19-2017, 06:14 AM
Not that it matters much, but Oliver's .SBSAR importer requires that a version of Substance is installed as it utilises the baker from Substance. Looks cool though, and it'll be on my Xmas list that's for sure!

sadkkf
12-19-2017, 07:53 AM
... a metric buttload ...

Love that. :)

DogBoy
12-19-2017, 10:16 AM
i donít know. i own just about all apart from the new od 2018, which i will own jan1st.

iíd say itís spot on to need these tools to patch lw up to a decent level.

nobody i know is going to look at lw if there isnít native substance support. sends a message. says sub par compared to every other tool. lightwaves name needs to be present in the lineup of supported apps for other applications. thatís marketing, thatís sending a message that says, hey we are here, we are relevant, we are future proof, we are good.

I just mean that not everyone is going to work the way you do. Though I know folks who would need them all, i also know folks who don't use substance and rhiggit. I've learned long ago most people don't do what i do, so best not to overestimate their needs.

gar26lw
12-19-2017, 11:55 AM
I've learned long ago most people don't do what i do, so best not to overestimate their needs.

well, if we were to think of this in terms of cars, you might not need a usb socket because you donít have a phone but a lot of people do need that to charge phones; everyone has a phone nowadays. you could say that we could buy an adapter and plug it into the cig socket but really, this is 2017/8 and this stuff is now standard. like that electric hand break switch. when buying a new car, i immediately ruled out anything with the old leaver type.

:ohmy::santa:

DogBoy
12-19-2017, 12:29 PM
well, if we were to think of this in terms of cars, you might not need a usb socket because you don’t have a phone but a lot of people do need that to charge phones; everyone has a phone nowadays. you could say that we could buy an adapter and plug it into the cig socket but really, this is 2017/8 and this stuff is now standard. like that electric hand break switch. when buying a new car, i immediately ruled out anything with the old leaver type.

(so mischievous) ;D

Now you are just trying to muddy the waters. I hate car analogies, but this is more like do you need parking assist or built-in SatNav. They are nice things to have, but hardly necessities. We must be really bored :D

gar26lw
12-19-2017, 04:23 PM
Now you are just trying to muddy the waters. I hate car analogies, but this is more like do you need parking assist or built-in SatNav. They are nice things to have, but hardly necessities. We must be really bored :D

i read your sig and couldn’t resist but then thought, ah the car thing does work quite well. maybe cos everyone has one, we can all relate?
i do feel this particular feature is a nessesity. especially reading how our procedural capability just dropped with the death of ifw.

i think that it is very important for lightwave to get back in the game too and the best way to do that is to be associated with all the leading software tech, imho.

lightwave needs to be closely integrated with apps such as unity, unreal, substance, zbrush etc, etc and a bunch of other fx tools to really start to change the perception in people minds. this is as much a marketing thing as it is a plain practical usage thing.

let’s take cars again, a lot of car makes are associated with apple car play and tout its feature. they aquire the apple image by brand association. that translates to sales.
whether everyone uses it or not is in some ways secondary but a lot of people will due to the popularity of the iphone market
zbrush and a few others are obvious parallels here; i believe that substance is another one.

DogBoy
12-20-2017, 02:22 AM
i read your sig and couldnít resist but then thought, ah the car thing does work quite well. maybe cos everyone has one, we can all relate?
um, I live in Central London, where parking is like hens teeth. I never learned to drive, as public transport here is not cheap but still better than driving most of the time. Even my partner, who had a car for work has given it up now she doesn't have to commute out of town everyday. I really don't get cars :D

i do feel this particular feature is a nessesity. especially reading how our procedural capability just dropped with the death of ifw.

i think that it is very important for lightwave to get back in the game too and the best way to do that is to be associated with all the leading software tech, imho.

Yeah, I do agree that going forwards opening up interchange of data is going to key to keeping LW current.


lightwave needs to be closely integrated with apps such as unity, unreal, substance, zbrush etc, etc and a bunch of other fx tools to really start to change the perception in people minds. this is as much a marketing thing as it is a plain practical usage thing.
Just so we're clear, my pedantry wasn't about should this be integrated (it should). It was about do we need buy all the add-ons, pure and simple.
I'm hoping with the architectural changes this should be able to open up access to this kind of integration. Let's see how this pans out


letís take cars again, a lot of car makes are associated with apple car play and tout its feature. they aquire the apple image by brand association. that translates to sales.
whether everyone uses it or not is in some ways secondary but a lot of people will due to the popularity of the iphone market
zbrush and a few others are obvious parallels here; i believe that substance is another one.

And we're back to cars :D
Substance is something I've really not go around to playing with. I had more experience with Mari TBH, but I do see that it is becoming pretty ubiquitous. It can't hurt to get get integration going.

MarcusM
12-20-2017, 03:06 AM
um, I live in Central London...

After visiting London las year I was in shock for certain time how pedestrians risk their lives every day just crossing the road. It's normal for Londoners but for me it was shaos :)

DogBoy
12-20-2017, 05:11 AM
After visiting London las year I was in shock for certain time how pedestrians risk their lives every day just crossing the road. It's normal for Londoners but for me it was shaos :)

You have to treat it like a game: drivers think they own the streets, and try to intimidate pedestrians. We do our best to ignore their rampant egomania :D
My partner (from Berlin) still hasn't learned to not follow me across the road. If she is fool enough to do it, then she has no right to blame me if she gets hit ;)

gar26lw
12-20-2017, 05:21 AM
You have to treat it like a game: drivers think they own the streets, and try to intimidate pedestrians. We do our best to ignore their rampant egomania :D
My partner (from Berlin) still hasn't learned to not follow me across the road. If she is fool enough to do it, then she has no right to blame me if she gets hit ;)

do you still get that black stuff in your ears and nose if you walk around for a day?

DogBoy
12-20-2017, 07:23 AM
do you still get that black stuff in your ears and nose if you walk around for a day?

what, Licorice? No, since the Great Licorice Incident of 1998, all emissions must be below 30 berties a week. any more and folks start looking like this. (http://www.bomperstudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Bertie-solo.jpg)

kopperdrake
12-20-2017, 10:17 AM
The Bertie Scale - love it :lol:

roboman
12-20-2017, 11:28 PM
..... this is 2017/8 and this stuff is now standard. like that electric hand break switch. when buying a new car, i immediately ruled out anything with the old leaver type.:

That's funny. I just bought a new car a few months ago and went out of my way to make sure critical stuff like the emergency break would still work if there were major problems (works even if the power goes away) :) The car does have 5 usb ports and connects to a ton of blue tooth devices, all at once. The car has a ton of things I will never use, but it's cheaper to put them on all the cars then make them an option....

mummyman
12-21-2017, 01:35 PM
Not that it matters much, but Oliver's .SBSAR importer requires that a version of Substance is installed as it utilises the baker from Substance. Looks cool though, and it'll be on my Xmas list that's for sure!

Is this definite? That you need a version of Substance installed? So grabbing free surfaces isn't worth it until you buy Substance?

Markc
12-22-2017, 03:52 AM
do you still get that black stuff in your ears and nose if you walk around for a day?
Being someone who lives up north, I travel to London a few times a year, and the answer is Yes.

samurai_x
12-22-2017, 04:06 AM
Its too bad substance support is not native to lightwave. Its been in modo since a few versions ago.

I hope the new UDIM support is as good as other implementaiton. Asked about it a couple of times already.

gar26lw
12-22-2017, 04:21 AM
Its too bad substance support is not native to lightwave. Its been in modo since a few versions ago.

without native substance support, lightwave will always be playing second fiddle.

Marander
12-22-2017, 04:28 AM
without native substance support, lightwave will always be playing second fiddle.

Too bad they couldn't manage to somehow integrate (at least a part of) Olivers toolset (I'm not saying it would have been possible, maybe they tried).

lardbros
12-22-2017, 01:25 PM
Is this definite? That you need a version of Substance installed? So grabbing free surfaces isn't worth it until you buy Substance?

Yes, definite. It uses Substance command line (or something similar) to actually bake the maps out.
I guess it doesn't matter too much, as if you want to use substance materials, it makes sense to have substance designer too.

samurai_x
12-22-2017, 11:11 PM
without native substance support, lightwave will always be playing second fiddle.

Agree. I don't have substance, I prefer 3dcoat for texturing.
But I've used substance in Modo when people send me sbsar files. Didn't need to own substance but since Modo supports it natively, it was no problem.

Crossing fingers with UDIM support. Hopefully its actually working.