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Paul_Boland
12-14-2017, 07:57 PM
Hi Folks.

Really like the look of FibreFX in Lightwave 2018. Have to admit, I've never used it, I use Sasquatch for all my hair and fur needs. But Worley Labs doesn't seem to exist any more. The website is still there, but there is no way to purchase their software. I have some projects ahead of me and will need fur for them so is Sasquatch officially dead now? Is it time to move into FibreFX?

erikals
12-14-2017, 08:02 PM
Yes.

other post on this, put short, Sas has rendering limitations.

also buy LW2018, i'm sure it should have ok FiberFX.

FiberFX does require work though. takes quite some time to tweak.

leandropedrouzo
12-14-2017, 08:34 PM
Yes.

other post on this, put short, Sas has rendering limitations.

also buy LW2018, i'm sure it should have ok FiberFX.

FiberFX does require work though. takes quite some time to tweak.

I´m not sure that you could make any type of fur combing with FFX (not talking about LW 2018).
Some type of clumps seem impossible with FFX (I'm not saying 100% sure you can't do it, but never seen one good example). I´ve seen a lot of examples that look "nice" but they are faaar from "real". Shading is not good but I think combing lacks a few things.
Sasquatch was less user friendly, and old, and slow. But at the end of the day you could get better results.
Just my user opinion though.
Lets hope FFX 2018 brings some improvements and not only compatibility with the new engine and VPR.

Greenlaw
12-14-2017, 08:50 PM
When I was with the Box at Rhythm, we stopped using Sasquatch not long after we switched to LW 11 (2012?) Sas was amazing in its day and we used it in many dozens of jobs for about 10 years, but we gradually ran too many limitations that were becoming addressed by FiberFX. For example, Sas only supported shadow maps, had no motion vectors, and had AA problems in alpha when using the Perspective Camera. FiberFX, on the other hand, could use any type of lighting, provided motion vectors for post processing motion blur in Fusion, and we could spot check it using VPR. Not that FiberFX didn't have its own issues but it carried us through a handful of jobs before Rhythm collapsed.

I can't talk specifics about the productions where I work now but we sometimes use FiberFX here too.

For my personal projects, I'm very excited about the new FiberFX in 2018. So far, I've only played with it a little but I can already tell it's more realistic looking, and not so 'painterly' like FiberFX in 2015. When I get a chance, I'll post a 'Toullie' FiberFX test render I was playing with in the 'B2' thread. It's not the most amazing render but it's interesting to compare it with the LW 11.5/2015 renders.

TheLexx
12-15-2017, 05:49 AM
Adam Gibson has just bought out Vol 1 of his new FiberFX (http://www.liberty3d.com/2017/12/new-lightwave-2015-getting-started-in-fiberfx-volume-1/)series for beginners. It'll probably take ages to release the complete series and he does have a mixed reputation for the "ramble factor", but you might find it useful. Get Liberty3D newsletter and I'm guessing there might be a tiny sale at Xmas.

mav3rick
12-15-2017, 07:28 AM
i would say more dead than lightwave.. means pretty much dead :)

Paul_Boland
12-15-2017, 10:25 AM
LOL!! Thanks. Guess it's time to explore FibreFX.

Greenlaw
12-15-2017, 11:06 AM
One big thing Sasquatch had that FiberFX doesn't is that great 'auto-combing' feature, where you define a starting point and the fibers flowed away from it in a surprisingly convincing manner.

To get a similar capability for FiberFX, be sure to check out Kryslin's tools.

Kryslin's lscripts (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?153559-Kryslin-s-lScripts&highlight=kryslin+fiberFX)

You might find some useful info in the 'B2' link below but it's probably very dated by now because a lot of the R&D for that project was done way back in 11.5 days. Especially the shading and lighting stuff, which is completely different now in 2018.

Also, OD Tools for 2018 has a useful pair of FiberFx tool that lets you to send Layout Edit Guides to Modeler with a variety of special weight maps so you can edit there using FiberFX Strand Modeler or any Modeler tool, and then send the changed guides back to Styles so you can continue editing with Edit Guides in Layout. It's pretty cool because you can perform mods using Modeler tools and maintain that 'virtual binding' to the original character mesh in Layout, which makes it easier to deform the fibers with the character's mesh, and color the fibers using the character's UV maps.

erikals
12-15-2017, 11:12 AM
yeah, i think Kryslin's script can be a real upgrade to FiberFX.

haven't had the time to make a video on it.

rednova
12-15-2017, 07:15 PM
Hi:
A long time ago I purchased sasquatch and G2 from Worley. I asked him to keep his site online to continue receiving technical support.
I am still using his plugins along with lightwave 9.6
I decided to stick to lw 9.6 for many more years, to completely master the software and keep using sasquatch and G2.
I am only a hobbyist, so I decided not to upgrade for a few more years. And instead to excel at this version.
I also got from Worley, Fprime and all the Taft and Polk plugins.
Worley was very kind to me, and let me buy his plugins even after he officially quit selling.
If you go to his site and find the 'contact info', send him an email,
is possible he will still let you get Sasquatch, but the plugins I think only work in lw 9.6
but don't really know.
On my lightwave 9.6 I can completely use Sasquatch, G2, and all the plugins.
Worley was very kind to me, and let me get all his plugins.
Hope this helps.

erikals
12-15-2017, 08:06 PM
might as well post here i guess... ?

haven't fully expanded upon this, just thought this was an interesting new trick.
i basically thought of it since i found mixing haircut styles (e.g. Side Parting) was quite difficult. (even in Blender?)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICQFLLyfo8I

Kryslin
12-16-2017, 02:19 AM
Ah, someone mentioned my name. :)

Various changes from Win 7 to Win 10 have made Sasquatch more difficult to use; mainly it's incompatibility with the new color picker. I keep it around for some legacy scenes I have, but am trying to move to FFX, because I want to do things that require a lot of setup in Sas.

I would consider it pretty much dead, except for legacy scenes, though.

Next version of the bias map generator will have an option to generate a plain normal map, to help with an existing FFX issue(that may or may not be present in the new version...).

gar26lw
12-16-2017, 05:13 AM
Ah, someone mentioned my name. :)

Various changes from Win 7 to Win 10 have made Sasquatch more difficult to use; mainly it's incompatibility with the new color picker. I keep it around for some legacy scenes I have, but am trying to move to FFX, because I want to do things that require a lot of setup in Sas.

I would consider it pretty much dead, except for legacy scenes, though.

Next version of the bias map generator will have an option to generate a plain normal map, to help with an existing FFX issue(that may or may not be present in the new version...).

use the original jovian plugin. that works
with worley plugins

erikals
12-16-2017, 08:01 AM
any easy way of blending two Bias maps in LW btw?
couldn't find a way, not without baking out to RGB, retouch, then convert to VertexBias again...

side parting just seems a bit tricky ?

https://i.imgur.com/xfXrWW9.jpg




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOWq2rsMaVU

Kryslin
12-16-2017, 10:54 AM
It's a bit tricky, but you could use nodes... set up your bias maps, then set a weight map. Using the vertex map node for an RGB vertex color map for your bias maps, feed each output into a mixer node's input, and use the weight map to blend.

Really though, my bias map tool was meant to be a pseudo replacement for Sasquatch's Quick Combing for procedural fur for Fiber FX. I made it capable of multiple, manual passes to help refine combing, but rough styling is was a possibility, too.

*edit* ARGH... Now you got me thinking, I could whip up something that takes two bias maps, and a weight map, and combines the two using the weight map as a mask... I have too many things to do this Christmas season already... :)

erikals
12-16-2017, 01:00 PM
*edit* ARGH... Now you got me thinking, I could whip up something that takes two bias maps, and a weight map, and combines the two using the weight map as a mask... I have too many things to do this Christmas season already... :)

heh :) sorry, it's "nice" to know others also thinks this way :)
i never had the time to create that video, but went ahead and did it anyway.

...oh, such is the life of problem-solving... :)

Kryslin
12-16-2017, 01:20 PM
use the original jovian plugin. that works
with worley plugins

Yes, it does, but it's no longer available as a plugin... I think. Ken Nign would have to speak to that. I know I have it around here. I used the Stand Alone color picker, which intercepted calls to open the system color picker, and opened Jovian instead...

However, with LW2018, I seriously doubt that Sasquatch will remain functional.

*edit* Jovian Plugin doesn't work with Win 10, at least on my end.

gar26lw
12-16-2017, 08:33 PM
jovian plugin definitely works in windows 10.

- - - Updated - - -



any easy way of blending two Bias maps in LW btw?
couldn't find a way, not without baking out to RGB, retouch, then convert to VertexBias again...

side parting just seems a bit tricky ?

https://i.imgur.com/xfXrWW9.jpg




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOWq2rsMaVU

how about you make a set of “skull cap” meshes that you shrink wrap to the head, then style each the way you want?
that way you’d have control of each parting.

TheLexx
12-17-2017, 07:39 AM
Paul, a 30% sale (http://www.liberty3d.com/2017/12/merry-christmas-everyone-our-annual-christmas-sale-is-back-get-30-off-your-purchases/) has come up if you wanted to try the new FiberFX tutorial (http://www.liberty3d.com/2017/12/new-lightwave-2015-getting-started-in-fiberfx-volume-1/) from Adam (though I can't vouch for the quality). :)

erikals
12-17-2017, 03:01 PM
how about you make a set of “skull cap” meshes that you shrink wrap to the head, then style each the way you want?
that way you’d have control of each parting.
thought of this, doesn't work in practice though, since a short hair style always follows a "morphed" pattern, and therefore cannot be made using parts.
hard to explain, but if you try it, you'll see that it doesn't work.

Kryslin
12-18-2017, 12:37 AM
jovian plugin definitely works in windows 10.

Ok, using the plugin (Jovian SAC) that comes with the Stand Alone color picker definitely does not work (Win10 1709, 64 Bit). I'll assume you're talking about the Full Color Picker that was for use with Lightwave Only.

I'll have to dig out a very old download of Jovian off of my previous machine. Should have it in there... somewhere.

gar26lw
12-18-2017, 02:52 AM
yeah the original jovian lw .p plugin.

i use this one myself instead of lw col pic. ‘tis great

Greenlaw
12-18-2017, 08:15 AM
*edit* Jovian Plugin doesn't work with Win 10, at least on my end.

The latest standalone version I have is pretty old (2.0.12 Oct 2010) but it's working in Win 10:

138895

I wonder why Ken pulled it off the market. It doesn't compete with LightWave, and I find it very useful when sharing colors between various programs.

If Newtek owns the standalone version now, I think they should sell it or include it with LightWave.

Edit: Wait, I'm confused. Are you guys talking about the native Jovian Picker in LightWave? I have it set by default and it works here in Win 10 too. You shouldn't have to install that version from another source because it comes built-in.

gar26lw
12-18-2017, 08:24 AM
native jovian doesn’t work with worley. jovian.p works
jovian stand-alone would too, i guess. not sure. i only use that with photoshop and modo.
seconded, jovian stand-alone would be great to get. perhaps as part of lw?

Greenlaw
12-18-2017, 08:55 AM
Oh, I see. Sorry, that got confusing to me. :)

I may have Sasquatch installed in LW 9.6 or 10 on my home computer. I'll try to remember to check when I back on it.

Kryslin
12-18-2017, 10:26 AM
The new lightwave color picker does not work with Sasquatch. The Stand Alone does not; Loading Jovian in win7 compatibility mode gets it to come up, but the picked color doesn't get sent back. However, the old Jovian.p does work, though there are panel rendering issues. It's not just Jovian, either - Morph Mixer has some odd rendering behavior as well.

Nice to know I can adjust colors now.