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OFF
12-13-2017, 06:56 PM
I'm very interested in whether it will be possible in the new version of LightWave to sort the objects displayed in the viewport, as it is implemented, for example, in Maya?
I understand that the upcoming release is by and large a new platform with old tools integrated into it. But will this platform bring these new functions to the Lightweav toolkit? Without the ability to sort objects into the viewport (including through the creation of animation layers), the work in the mainstream of the character animation will always be complicated by the need to rake in the debris of objects not used to control the animation.
The question of the increase in the performance of displaying real-time deformations of objects is also very interesting (this is a big difference - you can easily move objects with millions of polygons, but with deformation through the bones, even a couple of small objects can greatly slow the speed of display).
Another question about Motion Mixer - will this tool develop?
I, like many, are very glad that the new version of LightWave finally comes out. My questions are an attempt to present the further development of the program.

Julez4001
12-13-2017, 07:22 PM
japanese anime house can probably tell you but in the last 5 years there have been great advancement in CA.

Genoma and Rebelhill for sure but Japanese Anime houses have a very robust rigs they use from native tools.

I hope MotionMixer gets MDD support and well...add ChronoSculpt in.

OFF
12-13-2017, 07:30 PM
I do not have big problems with the rigging - I can use Genoma or RHiggit tools as well. But regarding the convenience of organizing space and OGL bones deformation speed - there are very old questions.

gar26lw
12-14-2017, 01:10 AM
japanese anime house can probably tell you but in the last 5 years there have been great advancement in CA.

Genoma and Rebelhill for sure but Japanese Anime houses have a very robust rigs they use from native tools.

I hope MotionMixer gets MDD support and well...add ChronoSculpt in.

do you have examples ?

silviotoledo
12-17-2017, 04:49 PM
1) sculpt/animated displacements - Technology already available on CRONOSCULPT but needs to be supported on native layout

2) Cage deform/Lattice / Influence Obects - Technology available on 3RD Powers plugin

3) Better softbodies dynamics - Lw soft flics too much. Need more stable results. Maybe an envelop to remove simulation gradually.

4) Skin and muscle deform - without it we can't do realistic characters for movies like they do on maya. Lightwave can't do a Jurassick Park dinnosaur actually. See the skin and muscle deform.

5) Better mocap support - include a Genoma rig preset for animation and mocap at the same RIG so we will have a plug and play solution. Maybe Nevromotion has the technology but need to integrate.

6) Animation layers

7) Easy to use constrains - bullet ones are hard to use . Do like in Softimage.

gar26lw
12-17-2017, 04:55 PM
japanese anime house can probably tell you but in the last 5 years there have been great advancement in CA.

can you elaborate?

silviotoledo
12-17-2017, 05:07 PM
A muscle simulation system is important!

Jurassick world: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwSy4kR0oGQ

Jungle Book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0MD1g_5dV4

Blender: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee7kcqsx_Ek

Maya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spIRr9OcODk

Max: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWifw8yigR8

Cinema 4D: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEgtIkVxvXY

Houdini: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0szMFeJDu4

Weta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YncZtLaZ6kQ

Muskeelar ( free code ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0akFtKiayo

erikals
12-17-2017, 07:36 PM
shouldn't be a big problem creating a muscle sim in LightWave, here's a rough start >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97keS1ZpNC8

a mistake is thinking that MSim is straight forward in any app. IT IS NOT.
sorry to use caps there.

in any professional MSim example you will see that the muscles are actually modeled/tweaked, and looks like real muscles, not like the many Balloon muscle examples.

model the muscle anatomy right, (weeks) get the muscle dynamics right, (days) and then finally use a collision object.
in addition, skin slide can either be done using UV maps endomorphs or pure endomorphs.


Subnote; Weta used months testing their MSim.

hypersuperduper
12-18-2017, 01:49 AM
To say it’s possible to create a muscle sim in lightwave is not the same as to say it is practical. Like most things animation related in lightwave you need to fix it all by hand. Plus, anything done with nodes needs to be manually copied pasted and changed if necessary instance by instance per object it is applied to. In order to make this workable at any scale, I am pretty sure you would need to resort to heavy scripting, and at that point, you are writing your own tools, and tools are what folks are asking for here.

gar26lw
12-18-2017, 02:45 AM
To say it’s possible to create a muscle sim in lightwave is not the same as to say it is practical. Like most things animation related in lightwave you need to fix it all by hand. Plus, anything done with nodes needs to be manually copied pasted and changed if necessary instance by instance per object it is applied to. In order to make this workable at any scale, I am pretty sure you would need to resort to heavy scripting, and at that point, you are writing your own tools, and tools are what folks are asking for here.
yup

erikals
12-18-2017, 04:38 AM
MSim isn't practical. not even in Houdini.
you will have to make manual edits in other Apps anyway.

no, it's not easy in LW to make great MSim, it is not, neither in other Apps.
however, it's surprising to me that people keep asking for it over and over without even trying to make it work.

and again, for professional results, you'll have to model the muscles, unless you want Balloon muscles like in many of the examples above.

in regards to Silvio, yes, i'm a bit strict, since he asked for this for years, and never Once tried to make it work himself.

i'm not saying No to a LW MSim system, it'd be nice, probably, but i think you at least should Try to give it a go.

maybe i'm being strict.

RebelHill
12-18-2017, 04:47 AM
maybe i'm being strict.

Maybe, but you're certainly being naive...

Can you, strictly speaking, do muscle sim in LW... sure. There's an SDK, just code one from scratch. That's pretty much your only plausible option. The muscle tools in houdini and maya are perfectly usable, nowhere near as difficult as you imagine.

But to do such in LW, natively, without developing such a system yourself... forget it.

erikals
12-18-2017, 05:11 AM
well, i guess it's time for some tests then.

OFF
12-18-2017, 05:22 AM
In most cases a well-adjusted weightmaps are good enough. Paint Weight from 3rd Powers gives good results, it's a pity that while its functional does not include a more advanced algorithm for distributing weights, which is used in Maya - Geodesic Voxel bind method of skinning. But still this tool is almost indispensable in LW for working with weightmap settings.
Perhaps the method of interactive creation of morph-maps for Joint Morph directly into the Layout would be an excellent alternative to muscular simulation.
It seems that something like this already showed Lino.

https://youtu.be/AGsBdx3FPG4?t=22

RebelHill
12-18-2017, 05:34 AM
well, i guess it's time for some tests then.

Yeah... tests are all well and good. Can you make a tube thing with a bit of a deforming blob in it that the "skin" slides over... sure, easy. Can you actually do it on a realistic character with overlapping joints through a range of poses, not to mention having a setup that you can really control and direct the look of?? Nope.

A simple test is one thing, a REAL example is very different (here's a hint, there's a reason youve NEVER seen anyone achieve it)

erikals
12-18-2017, 10:08 AM
if you say it can't be done, i'm guessing there must be something to it?
i mean that in the nicest way, no sarcasm.

guess i'll have to put my money where my mouth is, get this going. i will assume an upper body simulation should be sufficient.

gar26lw
12-19-2017, 07:41 AM
this got posted to facebook. wild.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kArkwoYcTfk&feature=youtu.be

all std lw, supposedly. can use in older versions.

TheLexx
12-19-2017, 08:17 AM
this got posted to facebook. wild.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kArkwoYcTfk&feature=youtu.be

all std lw, supposedly. can use in older versions.

The Youtube has a Japanese payment link (https://www.dlmarket.jp/products/detail/569232), which includes a description, and among the notes - "If you are looking for versatility, please use Genomas with LW3D standard equipment". But very interesting anyway.

DogBoy
12-19-2017, 10:06 AM
this got posted to facebook. wild.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kArkwoYcTfk&feature=youtu.be

all std lw, supposedly. can use in older versions.

But it says nothing about LW2018, only
"As long as it is compatible with LW 11.0 LW 11.6 LW 2015, you can probably use it all the time."

rdolishny
12-19-2017, 07:06 PM
This is really the only upgrade I'm interested in. SSD shaders and modeller clone tools, not so much.

silviotoledo
12-21-2017, 07:24 AM
Another CA request:

CREATE KEY OPTION - Selected Item - All Itens - LIST

This would help a lot!


ISOLATE one objetc while animating would be also usefull.

OFF
12-21-2017, 08:22 AM
Next request. Button based choice in GE for tension of curves. 0, 1, -1. 0,5 etc.

hypersuperduper
12-21-2017, 08:44 AM
Why not good Bťzier curve control too. Multi-select of handles, options. The usual stuff. Tcb curves are fine is fine but sometimes you really want Bťzier curves and the controls for editing them are just not up to scratch.

Julez4001
12-21-2017, 11:37 PM
can you elaborate?

https://www.lightwave3d.com/news/article/create-great-cel-shading-look-with-ys-plug-ins/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnTqlfitqY0

http://www.dstorm.co.jp/dsproducts/lw3d/training/creators3.html#advanced

silviotoledo
12-23-2017, 08:16 AM
Some more Feature Request:

A keyboard shortcut to insert "X" frames at the entire animation timeline portion. It automatically create key for all itens on the frame we choose and insert a certain number of frames inbetween, so we would have two keys and x frames as inbetween with a hot key. Include the options all itens or itens list.


Hide/unhide shortcut key for animation controlers ( or list ).

paulhart
12-23-2017, 11:45 AM
So??? The author of RHiggit [RebelHill aka Craig], (I have all of the commercial versions, thank you) made a strong point with Newtek in the past, that they had 'screwed up' the order of actions in Lightwave deformations in the previous version and made a compelling argument to have it return to it's prior state. Does anybody know if this has been done on Lightwave 2018???

jeric_synergy
12-23-2017, 12:11 PM
Next request. Button based choice in GE for tension of curves. 0, 1, -1. 0,5 etc.

I'm assuming you're referring to keyframe TCB values. How would this work? That is, what sort of workflow do you envision? "If on a keyframe, change the value of the current Item's TCBs to n?"

OFF
12-23-2017, 12:55 PM
I mean something like this - it's can help when you work with large amount of key's.

138954

jeric_synergy
12-23-2017, 02:45 PM
I mean something like this - it's can help when you work with large amount of key's.
138954
I see, and agree. Everytime I have to type in the same value 3 times (usually in Surfacing) I curse the fact that there's no LW convention for "copy the current value into the other 2 fields" -- which now that I've phrased it that way, strikes me as a good Feature Request.

Something like "ALT+ENTER". By phrasing it as "current value" it means you could put the cursor in the B/Z field and copy it automagically into X/Y-H/P fields with one keystroke. This would be a global convention.

MATT GORNER, would this kind of thing be possible?


++
Meanwhile: turn on LSCRIPT COMMANDER and see if those actions generate a scriptable sequence, then at least you'll have a script you can code yourself. (Learned that trick from RH.)

BTW everybody: Feature Requests can be submitted on the same form as you submit bugs, in your LWG account page.

gar26lw
12-23-2017, 03:34 PM
look at what maya does with its input fields. what lightwave needs is :
1. a maya outliner equivalent
2. a maya channel box equivalent

Ztreem
12-23-2017, 03:48 PM
Another CA request:



ISOLATE one objetc while animating would be also usefull.

Use this plugin.
https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/ef-itemfocus/

Ztreem
12-23-2017, 04:02 PM
Some more Feature Request:

A keyboard shortcut to insert "X" frames at the entire animation timeline portion. It automatically create key for all itens on the frame we choose and insert a certain number of frames inbetween, so we would have two keys and x frames as inbetween with a hot key. Include the options all itens or itens list.

Check this plugin.
https://youtu.be/hbPKSxLC_no

jeric_synergy
12-23-2017, 04:57 PM
look at what maya does with its input fields.
Can you summarize?

gar26lw
12-23-2017, 05:37 PM
Can you summarize?

this has been request a long time ago, just for the record :)

you can click in one text input field and drag across the other fields you wish to edit. now just type the number and press enter. all fields are adjusted at the same time.

here are some videos showing the channel box. it is very useful. imho, there are some good things in other apps that should be blatantly ripped off. no point reinventing the he wheel. concede that someone found a solution long ago.
besides, it would make lightwave waaay better.

https://vimeo.com/26338568

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JrBhY63R270

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=va6OCoaDCtE

jeric_synergy
12-23-2017, 05:47 PM
Ah, cool. So, "multi-field select". I'd prefer a keypress, because I like to keep my hands on the keyboard as much as possible. So, in my imagination, it'd be "N" for numeric, the default field is already selected (as it is currently), user enters a value, ALT+ENTER, done. All keyboard.

Or, alternatively: "n", "ALT+DOWN+DOWN", and all three (or more!) are selected, enter value, ENTER, done.

Or, the Maya way TOO.

gar26lw
12-23-2017, 06:37 PM
if you wat h the videos, you will see there are a number of features and rmb click functionality too

samurai_x
12-26-2017, 08:16 PM
WIth Lino gone, what's to become of Genoma updates? Or any animation tool updates.

ianr
12-27-2017, 05:58 AM
WIth Lino gone, what's to become of Genoma updates? Or any animation tool updates.


Yeah, lets Bump This +1

A Jan Announce of the functioning Dev team in the Snazzy Blog>>> going forward

ianr
12-27-2017, 06:04 AM
Oh Yeah, Onion Skinning Ghosting ( vari snapshots on the timeline & editable) for your characters moves,

while we are at it

gar26lw
12-27-2017, 06:53 AM
WIth Lino gone, what's to become of Genoma updates? Or any animation tool updates.

i think RH would be a good choice, if he would oblige

mav3rick
12-27-2017, 08:31 AM
WIth Lino gone, what's to become of Genoma updates? Or any animation tool updates.

sadly i think LW CA improvment will go dark after this split.. like modeler went dark on previous ....

ianr
12-27-2017, 08:35 AM
i don't think so , because the SDK opening up .enough said

hypersuperduper
12-27-2017, 09:02 AM
It seems to me the genoma way of doing things never really caught on and wasn’t really ever finished. I also think that 1 way street way of working is a dead end when it comes to rigging. The rigs in genoma 1 were just too messy and genoma 2, while a pretty decent biped rig, lacked the flexibility of genoma 1. Lightwave should really get some more fundamental rigging improvements not glorified skelegons/powergons which is basically what genoma is. Either a full start to finish rigging system in layout with GOOD bone editing tools and weighting. or full syncing of skelegons and bones so that they are no longer a one way street from modeler to layout.

hypersuperduper
12-27-2017, 09:07 AM
sadly i think LW CA improvment will go dark after this split.. like modeler went dark on previous ....

The LW character improvements that really mattered from 2015 and on had little to do with genoma or first party tools. They were mostly 3rd party.

chikega
12-27-2017, 03:31 PM
So??? The author of RHiggit [RebelHill aka Craig], (I have all of the commercial versions, thank you) made a strong point with Newtek in the past, that they had 'screwed up' the order of actions in Lightwave deformations in the previous version and made a compelling argument to have it return to it's prior state. Does anybody know if this has been done on Lightwave 2018???

I believe so "Modifier Stack with New Deformation Nodes:
Unlocks and simplifies the previously fixed order of operations for Bones, Morphs, Subdivision and Displacements. You can now drag and drop to re-order mesh deformations interactively."

http://static.lightwave3d.com/marketing/lightwave_2018/lightwave_2018_release_date.html

- - - Updated - - -

jeric_synergy
12-27-2017, 07:37 PM
Yup. It appears that not only can it be returned to what it was, it can be in any order whatsoever.

samurai_x
12-27-2017, 09:23 PM
It seems to me the genoma way of doing things never really caught on and wasnít really ever finished. I also think that 1 way street way of working is a dead end when it comes to rigging. The rigs in genoma 1 were just too messy and genoma 2, while a pretty decent biped rig, lacked the flexibility of genoma 1. Lightwave should really get some more fundamental rigging improvements not glorified skelegons/powergons which is basically what genoma is. Either a full start to finish rigging system in layout with GOOD bone editing tools and weighting. or full syncing of skelegons and bones so that they are no longer a one way street from modeler to layout.

Agreed. But having no character animation specialist in the team means we won't be seeing any improvements in layout like the lack of updates in modeler.
There is only so much a thirdparty can do.

hypersuperduper
12-28-2017, 02:47 AM
Agreed. But having no character animation specialist in the team means we won't be seeing any improvements in layout like the lack of updates in modeler.
There is only so much a thirdparty can do.
Not sure I agree here. Lino is a really great animator and a TD. Genoma was the sort of solution a TD would come up with: smart scripts that take advantage of the existing structure, which is essentially the same as what third parties do and have done.
In my experience, a good TD can sometimes stand in the way of fundamental progress by providing solutions and workflows to make the best of the existing structure. It is after all what a TD is supposed to do. When the biggest issues for character animation are fundamental things like the not being able to properly edit bones in layout or lack of a universal undo these sorts of patches and workflow fixes like genoma can ultimately be negative. It’s like repainting a water damaged room. It looks nice for a while, but sooner or later the rotten wood will cause issues and you will have to rip out everything you fixed to get to the root of the problem.

Genoma is just one more thing now that will have to be tossed in order to do CA tools right.

I will be curious to see what the team can come up with without Lino it may ironically be more useful for CA, because he is no longer there to work his magic and allow them to ignore the root issues.

Lino’s enthusiasm and inspirational examples on the other hand are going to be sorely missed.

samurai_x
12-28-2017, 04:59 AM
Genoma was the sort of solution a TD would come up with: smart scripts that take advantage of the existing structure, which is essentially the same as what third parties do and have done.

Lino, in my opinion, was the designer who can guide the engineers. Engineers are terrible at making software artist friendly.
We can't rely on third party with the lightwave user base the way it is. Many third party devs dropped lightwave support so its not really reliable. We can't even rely on NT's own team members to stay. :D
So NT needs to hire someone asap to replace Lino to design Lightwave's native animation tools.

hypersuperduper
12-28-2017, 05:42 AM
Lino, in my opinion, was the designer who can guide the engineers. Engineers are terrible at making software artist friendly.
We can't rely on third party with the lightwave user base the way it is. Many third party devs dropped lightwave support so its not really reliable. We can't even rely on NT's own team members to stay. :D
So NT needs to hire someone asap to replace Lino to design Lightwave's native animation tools.

I think they should take the time they need and work on the foundations before hiring anyone for CA. Based on what has changed in 2018 I don’t think they are anywhere near ready to start building a proper CA toolset. All the existing CA toolsets do like genoma or Ikbooster is provide the illusion of user freindliness while obscuring the pitfalls that inexperienced character animators/riggers inevitably run into. The end result being that when they run into them they are completely unprepared and utterly lost.

In my case I used genoma once. It was for a professional project in which I needed a quick auto rig. It worked, but any time I hit a problem or a motion the rig wasn’t really equipped to handle, I was completely lost, and the whole experience was like walking on eggshells. I learned how to rig for myself after that, and while my rigs are not great I know how they work and I am never lost. While learning, also did some simple rigging in blender and it was night and day. Blender is far better for a beginner. As is Maya. ultimately though, I prefer working in lightwave and an willing to put up with its decidedly user-unfriendly CA tools to stay in that environment.

I believe Newtek needs to focus on winning back users and keeping them right now. Which means competitive pricing and building on strengths, which user friendly character animation is not one of (even if experienced users can do some amazing stuff with the current tools). If they can keep users engaged with the rendering surfacing and general versatility of the program the third parties will be there to provide us tools that help us in areas where lw is weak.

TheLexx
12-28-2017, 06:07 AM
Engineers are terrible at making software artist friendly.A long time ago I once downloaded a demo of Houdini.....then ran off in terror :D, yet it is obviously a great software.

Julez4001
12-28-2017, 06:11 AM
If RebelHills tools work flawless in the new 2018 then they need to advertise his plugin on the LWG webpage. Just like the LWBrush tools and suite of great plugins.

samurai_x
12-28-2017, 07:44 AM
I believe Newtek needs to focus on winning back users and keeping them right now. Which means competitive pricing and building on strengths, which user friendly character animation is not one of (even if experienced users can do some amazing stuff with the current tools). If they can keep users engaged with the rendering surfacing and general versatility of the program the third parties will be there to provide us tools that help us in areas where lw is weak.

Rendering will not interest people outside the lightwave bubble. They have multiple options that are very integrated into the host app.
Meanwhile the people, especially studios, who are in the lightwave bubble, are needing updates to modelling and animation. Both core components that's so outdated.
People have left because of these two outdated components, never about the renderer. Lw renderer has always been great. If it was about the renderer then a lot of them would have stayed. But they didn't.
When Autodesk bought characterstudio for max, it wasn't even used in vfx, games that time. After a few years tons of game companies and small vfx studios used 3dmax as its main tool competing head to head with maya and softimage. We all know what happened to maya and softimage after a few years. Lol

djwaterman
12-28-2017, 08:35 AM
If RebelHills tools work flawless in the new 2018 then they need to advertise his plugin on the LWG webpage. Just like the LWBrush tools and suite of great plugins.

Like they do already (https://www.lightwave3d.com/third_party/).

Julez4001
12-29-2017, 05:25 AM
Front page, man... frontpage! Not all the time, just some times and/or the tutorial section.

gar26lw
12-29-2017, 06:16 AM
Rendering will not interest people outside the lightwave bubble. They have multiple options that are very integrated into the host app.
Meanwhile the people, especially studios, who are in the lightwave bubble, are needing updates to modelling and animation. Both core components that's so outdated.
People have left because of these two outdated components, never about the renderer. Lw renderer has always been great. If it was about the renderer then a lot of them would have stayed. But they didn't.
When Autodesk bought characterstudio for max, it wasn't even used in vfx, games that time. After a few years tons of game companies and small vfx studios used 3dmax as its main tool competing head to head with maya and softimage. We all know what happened to maya and softimage after a few years. Lol

i hope the lwg/nt listen to you samurai; you are one of the last naysayers left and every bit of what you say is spot on.
newtek, please listen to those that are not singing your praises.
i am glad you continue to post and fight the fight for lightwave being half decent again and not just a pretty renderer. no disrespect intended for the devs but as sam says, the renderer was never the issue and we really do need some attention on the other areas of the app now to bring things up to the next level.

hypersuperduper
12-29-2017, 06:33 AM
Rendering will not interest people outside the lightwave bubble. They have multiple options that are very integrated into the host app.
Meanwhile the people, especially studios, who are in the lightwave bubble, are needing updates to modelling and animation. Both core components that's so outdated.
People have left because of these two outdated components, never about the renderer. Lw renderer has always been great. If it was about the renderer then a lot of them would have stayed. But they didn't.
When Autodesk bought characterstudio for max, it wasn't even used in vfx, games that time. After a few years tons of game companies and small vfx studios used 3dmax as its main tool competing head to head with maya and softimage. We all know what happened to maya and softimage after a few years. Lol

No argument that rendering has always been the strongest. But it had fallen behind In the last few years if only because it was out of sync with the industry which has gone full pbr. I think it is safe to say that lightwave is at least competitive in that respect and itís pedigree will make lapsed users give 2018 a chance as far as the renderer and performance goes. Will they stop using an integrated renderer and pump everything into lw from another app? Probably not, no, but they may do simpler scenes in lightwave where lightwaveís ease of use and speed are a asset.

It took them three years to make the strongest parts of lightwave modern and competitive again. How long would it have taken to do the same with the weakest? 6?

Modeling (in layout at least) and animation on the other hand are held back by one HUGE issue that you donít need an animation expert to fix: UNDO. In order to come anywhere close to competing on equal footing with other applications in animation (or in attracting new users at least) undo has to work like it does in EVERY other program: Undo my last action regardless of what it was. Every dang module canít have its own undo buffer if it even has one Before that happens animating in lightwave is going to remain a dark art. And modeling will be forever modeler only.

So when I say I donít think newtek is ready to hire an animation specialist thatís what I mean. That person CANíT do his or her job until a few more fundamental changes happen.

OFF
01-19-2018, 07:29 AM
I would like to learn from people who understand the question - how progressive is the Hydra engine, which, it seems, now lies at the core of the LW? I mean that the improvements that were claimed as improving performance in the area of object transformation speed - look no more than some optimization of the old code. Revolutionary changes in this issue, such as they might be, if the speed of manipulation and deformation of objects were at the level of Chronosculpt - nothing.
Can we hope that optimizing the Hydra code in the future will raise the level of performance to a level sufficient to make it convenient to work with more or less realistic models in the projects of character animation?
I tried today to open a file of my current scene in Maya and was simply amazed - the LW practically freezes while animating my character, although all possible OGL shaders and textures are disabled. maximum I received 9 FPS. But when the same scene was opened in Maya (FBX with baking bones animation) - the character's animation gave 150 FPS and more!
Feeling when animating in the LW - as if the object is made of iron, which is difficult to deform. When you animate the character in Maya - the feeling that it is a plasticine object, malleable to any changes.
At the same time I quite like the set of tools for rigging in LW - RHiggit and WeightPaint are working on hurray. But the performance of Layout is at a very low level, completely insufficient to work on more or less high-poly model.

prometheus
01-19-2018, 09:12 AM
A long time ago I once downloaded a demo of Houdini.....then ran off in terror :D, yet it is obviously a great software.

The keyword here is " A long time ago I once downloaded)
I canīt imagine working with blender some time ago, itīs better now..still has a lot that can be improved.
I actually also had that feeling with houdini, it also has improved in UI, and for the new lightwave 2018..I am feeling ambiguous of the new workflow, as well as to what I should excpect in the future.

MichaelT
01-19-2018, 12:31 PM
Like they do already (https://www.lightwave3d.com/third_party/).

To be fair.. it doesn't seem like that they've actually tried all those plugins. Because some of them only have builds for older versions of LW. Vroom for instance is only available on request according to their page. Which usually means it is quite dead. Worley labs.. and so on.

Update: Although that doesn't ignore the fact that the TreeDesigner tool is updated :)

jwiede
01-19-2018, 03:11 PM
To be fair.. it doesn't seem like that they've actually tried all those plugins.

To be fair, not all of those companies still sell or develop LW plugins. ;D

gar26lw
01-19-2018, 07:05 PM
To be fair, not all of those companies still sell or develop LW plugins. ;D

yeah funnily enough i was looking at that page last night and thinking the same with 2018.

worley, dpont, vroom, pictrix etc etc lots are now dead :/
with the removal of x32 modeller a lot of plugins there went the way of the dodo too.

MichaelT
01-19-2018, 10:53 PM
That's not necessarily a bad thing. All the more reason for people to fire up that suggestion tool, and hand in requests. Many of those tools are functions that should be inside LW to begin with :)

gar26lw
01-19-2018, 11:28 PM
That's not necessarily a bad thing. All the more reason for people to fire up that suggestion tool, and hand in requests. Many of those tools are functions that should be inside LW to begin with :)

not really, the death of a lot of these plugins and developers is making other apps, that have all the goodies far more attractive:(

MichaelT
01-20-2018, 05:36 AM
not really, the death of a lot of these plugins and developers is making other apps, that have all the goodies far more attractive:(

I understand.. but the point is (and I've said it before) it is bad for any piece of software to rely on 3rd party tools for its success. I'm not against plugins in any way shape or form, just to make that crystal clear :)
It is just that I've seen plugins for things that are so incredibly obvious, that I can't imagine why functionality like theirs are not included from the beginning. I get the distinct impression that they don't include some things,
for the simple reason that a plugin for those functionalities even exists. And *that* is the point I'm after. There is nothing wrong with copying good ideas.

gar26lw
01-20-2018, 07:17 AM
I understand.. but the point is (and I've said it before) it is bad for any piece of software to rely on 3rd party tools for its success. I'm not against plugins in any way shape or form, just to make that crystal clear :)
It is just that I've seen plugins for things that are so incredibly obvious, that I can't imagine why functionality like theirs are not included from the beginning. I get the distinct impression that they don't include some things,
for the simple reason that a plugin for those functionalities even exists. And *that* is the point I'm after. There is nothing wrong with copying good ideas.

i completely agree. problem is we have to get them to consider copying feature a good idea and to then go ahead and do it.
itís a hard sell to lwg but imho, itís the smart play for aquiring users, keeping user and rounding out the application.