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paulhart
12-19-2017, 05:08 PM
I second the motion on the IFW2 Textures, as they need to be part of the Lightwave 2018.. . . . AND
Antti, thank you for the video on Cel Shading. I am the BIG NPR fan, who sent private emails to Rob two(2) years ago to say "Visit Japan, talk to the animation community and developers, and bring back some goodies." I would like to see a video on the changes now available in the area of Line Work, which works in conjunction with the Cel Shading. Thank you again for the videos. Very encouraging.

jboudreau
12-19-2017, 05:15 PM
I second the motion on the IFW2 Textures, as they need to be part of the Lightwave 2018.. . . . AND
Antti, thank you for the video on Cel Shading. I am the BIG NPR fan, who sent private emails to Rob two(2) years ago to say "Visit Japan, talk to the animation community and developers, and bring back some goodies." I would like to see a video on the changes now available in the area of Line Work, which works in conjunction with the Cel Shading. Thank you again for the videos. Very encouraging.

Yes we need IFW2 to work in 2018

gar26lw
12-19-2017, 05:32 PM
Yes we need IFW2 to work in 2018

+1 here

Triodin
12-19-2017, 06:34 PM
You forgot to add the Fry meme. :)

And yes, where is the Pre-Order Link? :D

138918

Thanks Hermit! Was on mobile and tried to quote a meme in a pinch, not trying to be rude :D

Ya got any more of them preorder links?

https://i.imgflip.com/21dvja.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/21dvja)

beverins
12-19-2017, 07:30 PM
I’m upgrading.. and I have access to Free Autodesk products as an educator... and also have Modo. Learning a bit about Houdini, enough to troubleshoot student renders.

Would be nice if you posted EDU costs.. also if you accepted pre-orders?

samurai_x
12-19-2017, 07:35 PM
Yes, you would get 2018 at no additional cost on that license. We were wondering why you want to spend more to get there, but saw your explanation further down the thread...

Ok thanks for confirming.
So anyone with an older version, buy lightwave 2015 now, get lw 2018 on Jan 1.

adk
12-19-2017, 07:37 PM
Yes we need IFW2 to work in 2018

Yup, or something like IFW2, tho I think that would be beyond asking at this hectic time.

jperk
12-19-2017, 07:52 PM
I'm upgrading to 2018. Can't pass up on this deal.

Morgan Nilsson
12-19-2017, 08:44 PM
Yes, you would get 2018 at no additional cost on that license. We were wondering why you want to spend more to get there, but saw your explanation further down the thread...

What about people who bought LW 2015 a week or so prior to the reveal of 2018 (Like me)

Would be nice if I also would be eligible for a free or discounted upgrade so close to a new version release :)

samurai_x
12-19-2017, 09:35 PM
If I were NT I would give those that bought 2 weeks prior to the announcement a free upgrade. Some software companies with good customer service do that.

JamesCurtis
12-19-2017, 09:59 PM
I have had every single version of LW up through 2015.3. However I might have to wait a little to upgrade this time due to financial and medical reasons. What I wondered is how long a trial period lasts and does that mean full rendering and no Dicovery mode during the trial? Excuse me if it was answered further back.

Chris S. (Fez)
12-19-2017, 11:02 PM
If I were NT I would give those that bought 2 weeks prior to the announcement a free upgrade. Some software companies with good customer service do that.

Yes. For ¥£*=÷ sake encourage people to purchase.

ruscular
12-19-2017, 11:54 PM
Will people who plan to purchase Lightwave 2018 be able to get nevronmotion and chronosculpt?

Otherwise the thing to do would be to upgrade to LW2015 now and get the additional free plugin and then get LW2018 for free when it eventually come out?!?!

YakuzaSauce
12-20-2017, 12:11 AM
Nevronmotion promotion ended quite some time ago- I purchased Nov 2016 and it was long gone. Also contacted support to confirm.

Niko3D
12-20-2017, 02:50 AM
I will cover all the materials in the future.

I saw the new videos...you are a genius!
Very good videos and you explain all setting very well...VERY USEFUL!!!
I wait for GI setting and maybe setting for ArchViz...:)

Thank you again...

ruscular
12-20-2017, 03:26 AM
Yes, you would get 2018 at no additional cost on that license. We were wondering why you want to spend more to get there, but saw your explanation further down the thread...

would he be able to get chrono and nevron as well?

samurai_x
12-20-2017, 04:59 AM
would he be able to get chrono and nevron as well?

That's doubtful. That deal was years ago right? I got them both from one of my lw license. I've never used them in a paid project. Nevron is a toy and useless imo. Chrono is useful for certain tasks.

But if NT is feeling generous they should give those two for free with lightwave 2018 for the recent $#%^ they pulled going dark. :D

lardbros
12-20-2017, 07:42 AM
Nevron is a toy and useless imo.

I used Nevron for some mocap retargeting and it's pretty damn cool!!! The fact it also does Kinect stuff is an aside really, it's a decent mocap retargeting tool!

samurai_x
12-20-2017, 08:18 AM
I used Nevron for some mocap retargeting and it's pretty damn cool!!! The fact it also does Kinect stuff is an aside really, it's a decent mocap retargeting tool!

I guess it depends on what quality you're aiming for.
A single kinect based on the microsost mocap system can only capture flailing arms and idling motion. Good luck with occlusion. Brekel, nevron, they all suck.

vncnt
12-20-2017, 08:32 AM
Will we be able to render one single frame using several computers at a time? It would be sweet to be able to for huge stills.

Just curious.
Why not split a frame into multiple tasks using Render Region?

jboudreau
12-20-2017, 08:34 AM
I guess it depends on what quality you're aiming for.
A single kinect based on the microsost mocap system can only capture flailing arms and idling motion. Good luck with occlusion. Brekel, nevron, they all suck.

Don't quote me on this but I would say you would get a Chronosculpt and Nevron motion aswell. The reason because everyone who has 2015.3 got those two programs for free in their account and if you upgrade to 2015 then you should get those two programs in your account like everyone else along with 2018 when it comes out January 1st.

Thanks,
Jason

ianr
12-20-2017, 08:39 AM
Not right now. Chromatic aberration is something camera makers are tryong to avoid, and it is faster to do in post, rather than simulate in the renderer.

totally agree anttij Fusion (moving) or Pshop (fixed)

Anttij77
12-20-2017, 09:15 AM
I am going to travel to Lapland tomorrow morning for xmas, but as soon as I am back I will make more videos.

Have a nice holiday, everyone.

m.d.
12-20-2017, 09:18 AM
I guess it depends on what quality you're aiming for.
A single kinect based on the microsost mocap system can only capture flailing arms and idling motion. Good luck with occlusion. Brekel, nevron, they all suck.

Cause their exactly the same thing....
Just the XBOX Kinect SDK bolted on, same quality of mocap when you dance in front of your Xbox.

Now I have both....and IPI with multi Kinects and 4ps eye camers

Brekel is a slightly modified version of the SDK, and it gets updated (hint NewTek) and does do a bit better than nevron, especially with a V2 Kinect.

As long as your facing the camera, you can get by with some decent movement on a single Kinect. Mostly static, good for archviz stand ins etc....but ya no real action shots

The ipi can deal with occlusion, but needs way more room and a long time to setup and process.

m.d.
12-20-2017, 09:26 AM
Not right now. Chromatic aberration is something camera makers are tryong to avoid, and it is faster to do in post, rather than simulate in the renderer.

I don’t think he was asking as a feature. The aberration is all in the lens. I think he’s asking if the rays do a spectral shift as in when passing through a prism....then the light could be aberrated with the right circumstances.

I think to achieve this the light ray has to be calculated spectrally, and not just RGB?
Does the new render calculate spectrally?

kopperdrake
12-20-2017, 10:10 AM
I don’t think he was asking as a feature. The aberration is all in the lens. I think he’s asking if the rays do a spectral shift as in when passing through a prism....then the light could be aberrated with the right circumstances.

I think to achieve this the light ray has to be calculated spectrally, and not just RGB?
Does the new render calculate spectrally?

Thanks m.d. - yes, that was what I meant, just wasn't sure of the appropriate technical jargon :D I just wonder how real PBR *is*, and how far we can play with it - it'd have all sorts of knock-ons for things such as caustics without having to resort to jiggery pokery :thumbsup:

m.d.
12-20-2017, 11:12 AM
Ya PBR is a badly misused term....
You can have PBR even in openGL as long as your shading contributions diffuse/reflective ect don't violate physical reality.

Caustics is one thing...any pathtracer should be able to do it, but spectral shift in caustics is another

Another step towards realism is spectral rendering. Takes a spectrum of colors into account....similar to a wavelength of light, instead of just an RGB sample.
Usually done 1 of 2 ways...binning or monte carlo (monte carlo spectral sampling....not to be confused, in the end always just means random...like at the casino)
Binning kinda combines bits of all 3 to make a 'reddish' or 'greenish' range, and monte carlo randomly assigns a wavelength per sample...

Here's a paper on a new technique (that octane should adopt) that seems to eliminate some noise involved with spectral sampling
http://cgg.mff.cuni.cz/~wilkie/Website/EGSR_14_files/WNDWH14HWSS.pdf

Greenlaw
12-20-2017, 11:50 AM
Just wanted to add to m.d.'s comments about iPi Mocap Studio:

It takes me about five minutes to set up an iPi Mocap Studio session. This is using Dual Kinect One or triple Kinect XBox configuration. I keep the devices on their own sticks, so when I need them, I just roll them out into the living room, calibrate (a couple of minutes,) and go. Kinect setup is easy because it doesn't require special clothing or lighting. BTW, Kinect One is better than Kinect XBox because it's not nearly as affected by IR light coming through the window. There are other reasons but that's the primary one. The one downside with Kinect One is that you need a separate computer for each device. (A Microsoft imposed limitation, but the data size is much higher so probably just as well.)

The iPi system is also nice because I can add several PS Move controllers to record wrist and head rotations.

For me, occlusion hasn't been a big issue with iPi and multiple Kinects. Since the devices record in 3D, you don't need as many 2D RGB cameras for full coverage.

I've used the above setup to create effects in a few feature films, mainly digital stunt doubles and creatures.

Framerate is another matter: even Kinect One only captures at 30 fps. iPi Soft is looking into at three alternative depth cameras and at least one of them can record depth data at 1280 x 720 and 70fps. But even with current devices, the software is pretty good at interpolating what it misses at 30 fps.

I also have the PS Eye setup with six cameras. This is more complicated to setup but it's better for fast motion because of the higher framerate. Another plus is that it's better for recording multiple performers at once (up to 16 cameras means very little occlusion.) It does require a lot more room, special clothing and suitable lighting, which why I stopped using it for a few years. It's just so much easier to shoot in my living room with the dual Kinect setup.

The tracking process has been pretty fast for me--usually just a few minutes. The speed depends on how powerful your graphics card is, and also the number of cameras you have. (I have a nvidia GTX 960 and I'm typically capturing with two Kinect One (v2) sensors.)

The software also has it's own retargeting system, and it can export to FBX files compatible with LightWave. (Editing mocap in iPi is limited though so I still mostly use an old copy of Motion Builder for retargeting and editing. Still looking into alternatives like Webanimate Standalone and iClone 7 with 3DXchange.)

Which brings me to Nevronmotion. I agree that the Kinect support in Nevronmotion is very basic (as mentioned by m.d., it uses the standard Microsoft SDK, like nearly all single Kinect system,) but Kinect support was a secondary feature. Nevronmotion's main purpose is mocap retargeting.

m.d.
12-20-2017, 12:00 PM
my problem is I dont hardly have the room to setup ipi....
I 3d printed some standard bases for the kinect sensors (old ipi so just 2 v1 sensors...I have a single v2 as well, but use that with brekel) but I still have to clear the room, move furniture and calibrate. Meaning for me at least an hour+ to setup....just reality for me.

Brekel....I just stand up and walk 5 feet back from my desk and the v2 kinect on my monitor can pick up the basic stuff.

For any real production, I would set up IPI....but it takes alot more than 5 minutes for me

Greenlaw
12-20-2017, 12:19 PM
Yeah, space is an issue for me too. We don't have a large home, and the living room is just large enough for dual capture. I had more space in the garage at one time but now I can hardly walk in there. (Sigh! Spring cleaning may have to come early this year.) ;)

Don't know if this helps but I often used the Kinect sensors in a 90-degree configuration, so the devices are both on one side of the room. This only takes a little more room than a single device setup, and because Kinect can record in 3D, occlusion is still not a huge issue with this configuration. You do have to be more aware in your performance orientation to minimize occusion.

I can just squeeze in two devices with the 180-degree config, but because this reduces my capture space size, I use the 90-degree config most of the time, and only switch to 180 when I feel I really need it.

m.d.
12-20-2017, 01:45 PM
I had more space in the garage at one time but now I can hardly walk in there. (Sigh! Spring cleaning may have to come early this year.) ;)

Don't know if this helps but I often used the Kinect sensors in a 90-degree configuration, so the devices are both on one side of the room. This only takes a little more room than a single device setup, and because Kinect can record in 3D, occlusion is still not a huge issue with this configuration. You do have to be more aware in your performance orientation to minimize occusion.

I can just squeeze in two devices with the 180-degree config, but because this reduces my capture space size, I use the 90-degree config most of the time, and only switch to 180 when I feel I really need it.

Garage is in the same boat :) Except its now winter here and unheated....

Not sure if I ever tried 90...mostly 180.
Still captures good?

Greenlaw
12-20-2017, 02:56 PM
Yes! You basically have something that looks like this:

138922

There's still a little area where occlusion can occur (the small triangle behind the figure,) but you can usually perform to avoid that area, even when walking or spinning in circles. If the tracker can see most of the motion, it's usually pretty good about interpolating what it's missing. And when that fails, it only takes a few minutes to manually assist the tracker to correct the errors.

I know some people get really hung up on having 100% realtime capture, but this is why iPi's two-step system is more accurate and easier to correct when there's an error.

According to iPi, using a dual system is comparable to using four PS Eye cameras. Naturally, you get more accuracy with more PS Eye cameras (you can add up to 16 if you have the horsepower for it,) but setup complexity, processing time, and space requirement also increases. Multi-kinect capture is not a perfect low-cost mocap solution but it's been ideal for my personal 'small space' needs.

m.d.
12-20-2017, 03:50 PM
cool, thanks for posting...
I actually have used that setup a few times....in my head I thought of it more of a 45 degree setup (even though it is 90)
I'm still on the old IPI as i refused to jump through the subscription hoops

Nicolas Jordan
12-20-2017, 06:25 PM
I am going to travel to Lapland tomorrow morning for xmas, but as soon as I am back I will make more videos.

Have a nice holiday, everyone.

Have a nice break. I'm looking forward to the rest of your videos!

samurai_x
12-20-2017, 07:13 PM
Cause their exactly the same thing....
Just the XBOX Kinect SDK bolted on, same quality of mocap when you dance in front of your Xbox.



That's why I mentioned microsoft system. Brekel, nevron, Iclone mocap they all suck for mocap work. Maybe its good enough for some people. lol

Revanto
12-20-2017, 08:34 PM
I think there was an implicit ;) in that post. We don't mind people being aggressive about wanting to buy quite as much as some other things. ;)

There is currently an ad campaign in Australia for KFC where people see a KFC ad at discount price and say "Shut up and take my money". Yeah, so it's as SBowie suggested, it really wasn't meant to be taken negatively.

Rev. :p

millsron
12-20-2017, 08:37 PM
There is currently an ad campaign in Australia for KFC where people see a KFC ad at discount price and say "Shut up and take my money". Yeah, so it's as SBowie suggested, it really wasn't meant to be taken negatively.

Rev. :p

Does anyone have any indication of the rendering speeds?

Thanks

m.d.
12-20-2017, 10:05 PM
That's why I mentioned microsoft system. Brekel, nevron, Iclone mocap they all suck for mocap work. Maybe its good enough for some people. lol

what systems do you use?

gar26lw
12-20-2017, 10:33 PM
Does anyone have any indication of the rendering speeds?

Thanks

you know how fast you feel the man flu coming on when asked if you want to go shoe shopping? about that fast.

samurai_x
12-20-2017, 11:28 PM
what systems do you use?

Ipi. Looked at perception but the quality of the suit is questionable.

vbk!!!
12-21-2017, 08:24 AM
well .. how about to read mesh sequence. Like FLIP simulation mesh. And shade it on the fly.
Can LW2018 handle this ?
Can LW2018 be able to deploy animated Alembic and shade it ?

In short : is LW2018 still Ligthwave centric or is it able to assemble stuff from other apps ?

VDB is a good step. But it's far to be enough.

allabulle
12-21-2017, 09:14 AM
Just curious.
Why not split a frame into multiple tasks using Render Region?

Good point. It's precisely to avoid that step. And to automate the procedure in case of multiple and diverse stills. Doable now, but a bit of a hassle.

vncnt
12-21-2017, 11:09 AM
Good point. It's precisely to avoid that step. And to automate the procedure in case of multiple and diverse stills. Doable now, but a bit of a hassle.

You could write a script to automate split up of the target regions by specifying a raster definition or a slice definition
and another script to automate the stitching process by generating a Fusion comp.

Script #1: search file Set_Limited_Region.ls in ./Newtek/LightWave_2015.3/support/ as a simple example for a new limited region related LScript in LW.

Script #2: build a test comp in Fusion and save it. Fusion is available for free these days. The comp file is readable text and easy to understand. Use it as a format guide to build a script in LW or Fusion.

Functional for both stills and entire animations.
You even could start rendering "preview blocks/slices", auto-merge them and check results in your NLE and then continue with the "final blocks/slices".

I guess it must be easier to change the "renderer feeding" process than modifying the Lightwave renderer.
And probably more productive than hoping and waiting for a new "Stitching Camera" in LW2021.

Schwyhart
12-21-2017, 01:30 PM
I've read a lot of the forum, but can't recall what system specs I should look at for rendering in 2018.
With LW 2018, I know it's CPU based, but should I be more concerned with cores, or Ghz? I'm looking at the new iMac Pro specs on Apple's website. I might be able to buy one in the coming months.

CaptainMarlowe
12-21-2017, 01:33 PM
I would wait before choosing an iMac pro the release of new mac pro, because you could have a serious heating problem with the iMac pro. I have burnt two iMacs over the last years, so I now only buy mac pro for rendering. Right now, I have a trashcan, but if the new render controller is easy to set up, I just plan to buy one or two windows based rendering boxes to add to my current rig.

Schwyhart
12-21-2017, 01:41 PM
True...but has Apple announced when they plan to release the new Mac Pro?
I have the Mac Pro trash can at work and I like it, but hate the design. Not enough ports and they're in a dumb place on the case. I hope the next design is better.

Greenlaw
12-21-2017, 01:58 PM
Good point. It's precisely to avoid that step. And to automate the procedure in case of multiple and diverse stills. Doable now, but a bit of a hassle.

It wasn't too bad. Save individual scenes with different Limited Region settings, then assemble the final image in Photoshop. I used to do this manually way back in the 90's when I worked as an illustrator for print publications. Back then it was critical because computer RAM was still measured in double-digit MB, not GB. :)

It's been a while since the last time I had to do this but there used to be scripts or plugins available that automated the process. But I haven't checked recently so I'm not sure they still work.

Did a quick search and found one:

https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/limited-region-utilities/

It's really old though so it probably only works in x32. However, I think you can run it in x32 and render in x64.

I think I've also used the Animated Limited Region script for this sort of thing.

That said, I agree, this should be a native feature.

Edit: I think some third party render controllers let you do this. I'm almost sure BNR does but I don't think I've ever used it that way.

Edit2: Re: the LR Utilities mentioned above: Ah, never mind. The download link is long dead.

Philbert
12-21-2017, 04:05 PM
Cel shader will be really interesting.

It's a shame, I was just thinking of doing a YouTube tutorial on cel shading in LW but now it will be outdated.

Ztreem
12-21-2017, 04:25 PM
Will we be able to render one single frame using several computers at a time? It would be sweet to be able to for huge stills.

If you’re on a pc you can use Amleto.

tyrot
12-21-2017, 04:27 PM
in blog post there is a info about SMOOTHING in modeler... what is it ? similar to 3rd power LW BRUSH solution ?

Greenlaw
12-21-2017, 04:45 PM
It's a shame, I was just thinking of doing a YouTube tutorial on cel shading in LW but now it will be outdated.

I think 2015.3 videos may be worthwhile still. Not everybody will be moving to 2018 immediately. Heck, some users here are still usng 9.5.

Take me, for example. I started a new personal project in 2018 a couple of weeks ago to prepare me for when we switch over at work, but for a handful of reasons (incompatible plugins, workflow differences, third-party software compatibilty, personal habits,) I'm sure I'll still be using 2015.3 at home and at work for some time to come.

lardbros
12-21-2017, 04:52 PM
I guess it depends on what quality you're aiming for.
A single kinect based on the microsost mocap system can only capture flailing arms and idling motion. Good luck with occlusion. Brekel, nevron, they all suck.

Not sure you get what I mean. We go for perfect quality Mocap, using Vicon camera setups.

I'm using nevron PURELY for mocap RETARGETING... not the kinect or PS move.
So, this involves using our Vicon mocap suits with reflective balls on, recording using Vicon Blade, then exporting as FBX. Then loading that rig into LW and doing the retargeting to another rig. That's what nevron is for, and it works much better than the same solution in 3dsmax.

Ztreem
12-21-2017, 06:26 PM
If you’re on a pc you can use Amleto.

If that still works in 2018 that is.:D

samurai_x
12-21-2017, 06:32 PM
The nevron rig that you retarget to is not good either. Rubbery deforms common to lightwave. Like I said. It will work for some. Depends on the quality you're aiming for.

erikals
12-21-2017, 06:33 PM
LW2018 - any GI cache ?

Nicolas Jordan
12-21-2017, 07:20 PM
LW2018 - any GI cache ?

This is also one of the many questions I would like answered as well. Antti said he would be making a video about the GI in 2018 so we will have to see what shows up in the video I guess.

m.d.
12-21-2017, 07:42 PM
LW2018 - any GI cache ?

doesn't really go with a pure pathtracer AFAIK

- - - Updated - - -


well .. how about to read mesh sequence. Like FLIP simulation mesh. And shade it on the fly.
Can LW2018 handle this ?
Can LW2018 be able to deploy animated Alembic and shade it ?

In short : is LW2018 still Ligthwave centric or is it able to assemble stuff from other apps ?

VDB is a good step. But it's far to be enough.

Good question....big on mine and a lot of other list...

Can 2018 handle alambic meshes with changing poly counts?

Philbert
12-21-2017, 07:43 PM
I guess it depends on what quality you're aiming for.
A single kinect based on the microsost mocap system can only capture flailing arms and idling motion. Good luck with occlusion. Brekel, nevron, they all suck.

I did a job once with my Kinect making the character walk a few steps, turn to the left, the push buttons on a machine. I did all the acting myself and it sped up my animation. It looked good too.

Philbert
12-21-2017, 07:57 PM
I think 2015.3 videos may be worthwhile still. Not everybody will be moving to 2018 immediately. Heck, some users here are still usng 9.5.

Take me, for example. I started a new personal project in 2018 a couple of weeks ago to prepare me for when we switch over at work, but for a handful of reasons (incompatible plugins, workflow differences, third-party software compatibilty, personal habits,) I'm sure I'll still be using 2015.3 at home and at work for some time to come.

Well OK then, consider the tutorial made! (as soon as I have time)

gar26lw
12-21-2017, 11:37 PM
True...but has Apple announced when they plan to release the new Mac Pro?
I have the Mac Pro trash can at work and I like it, but hate the design. Not enough ports and they're in a dumb place on the case. I hope the next design is better.

i always found this amusing

https://3.img-dpreview.com/files/w/TS560x560?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jhdmaxx.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F01%2FMac-Pro-Problems.jpg&signature=QQYb5dmB4dfvFS4tRL0iwlC6JO4%3D

gar26lw
12-21-2017, 11:40 PM
Can 2018 handle alambic meshes with changing poly counts?

i hope so. that would od be awesome.

vncnt
12-22-2017, 07:43 AM
It wasn't too bad. Save individual scenes with different Limited Region settings, then assemble the final image in Photoshop. I used to do this manually way back in the 90's when I worked as an illustrator for print publications. Back then it was critical because computer RAM was still measured in double-digit MB, not GB. :)

Work in progress: 138940

Mr. Wilde
12-22-2017, 09:11 AM
Great to hear that LightWave is still alive. I was about to get Modo.

Each of the features should have had coverage on the blog or social media. Silence is a marketing killer. It can as simple as a tweet of a screenshot, but you NEED to show live signs.


Parts of 2018 are using Qt for the GUI, but the rest of the GUI needs to updated

4K/high density display support and flexible panels are a MUST for me in 2018. LightWave on a 4K 27"/30" screen is unusable because of the drifting mouse pointer issue. If you set it to ignore dpi scaling to counter the drifting bug, the entire 3d viewport is pixelated and the texts are cutoff. Seriously, that is the worst thing about LW for me.

And I would like to be able to rearrange my workspace with dockable windows as I want, like it's possible in Photoshop or Unity 3D.

Proper Undo and Redo is another HUGE usability issue that needs to be solved.

Sliders need to be in a floating or dockable window, and not hovering in the viewport.

ALL Modeler tools need to be real time.

Don't mean to be harsh, but if LW 2018 hasn't covered those basics, I'm out. I couldn't care less about Cel Shading, Edge Rendering, Noise Reduction and Parametric Shapes (which in the examples look just like nodally displaced subdivision planes). That time should have been invested in UX improvements.


All other features look pretty amazing though. The wait has been long.

tburbage
12-22-2017, 11:46 AM
Don't quote me on this but I would say you would get a Chronosculpt and Nevron motion aswell. The reason because everyone who has 2015.3 got those two programs for free in their account and if you upgrade to 2015 then you should get those two programs in your account like everyone else along with 2018 when it comes out January 1st.

Thanks,
Jason

[already answered partly by Chuck] NewTek, maybe too late now, but it might be a good time to make the $299 upgrade offer to pre 2015.3 users to "upgrade now to 2015, get 2018 for 'free'". Or alternately allow all 2018 upgraders access via their account to 2015 as well.

I think most regular LW users at least in the near to mid term are going to want to keep 2015 around for a while due to various compatibility issues, and it will be a better bridge to 2018+ than older versions.

If the plan is to bundle ChronoSculpt and Nevron with new licenses and/or upgrades for users who didn't already get that with 2015, that should be clarified (if it hasn't already, haven't read all of the posts...)

Has anything been said yet about whether we can do the upgrade purchase ahead of 01/01 so we might find our downloads available right out of the gate on 01/01?

DrStrik9
12-22-2017, 11:46 AM
OK, I guess I'll weigh in here ... my very first thought was to say something snarky, like, "What's this Lightwave you speak of?" :devil:

But after all this time, as I read through the various expectations, tentative excitement, disappointments about undo, etc., I realize that Lightwave is like an old classic truck from decades ago that is painstakingly restored and maintained, with rebuilt engine, altered with newer parts only when absolutely necessary, new chrome wheels, new tires, fresh paint, wax, shined up, and driven only on Sundays, and never when it rains. You won't find bluetooth, cruise control, heated seats, great mileage, or a modern look and feel, but it DOES go down the road quickly, and with a certain kind of nostalgic style, which some old dudes and those who appreciate history find quite charming and fun.

138941

I don't know yet if I'll upgrade. I am indeed an old dude who has loved Lightwave, but I think I might just wait and see ...

Congratulations to LW3D dev team for finally bringing this old beauty up to its next releasable incarnation. I wish you the greatest success.

erikals
12-22-2017, 12:34 PM
a $300 upgrade is a great value, especially if you are already a LW user and find the workflow alright.

it's almost foolish not to.

and if you use it to make money, there's no question really, $300 is basically free.


yes, the LightWave car is basically this in its current shape...

https://i.imgur.com/zT33C78.jpg

SBowie
12-22-2017, 12:48 PM
and if you use it to make money, there's no question really, $300 is basically free.I agree the price is insanely reasonable, even for a lot of hobbyists. That said, it's undeniable that there has been a lot of confusing, sometimes overlapping and/or interlocking promotions and offers of other types. Some were clearly meant to add appeal, others to make amends. Honestly, I don't think the issue for many is actually price, so much as the principle of honouring the various commitments. And it's impossible to disagree with that premise.

As far as I can tell, the most difficult thing on our side is trying to parse all of the various 'deals' and figure out who qualifies for what. I know for a fact that some related inquiries have already been resolved to mutual satisfaction, but it's going to take some time to work through the pile.

erikals
12-22-2017, 12:58 PM
i just find i hard to complain about a low price.

unless one wants to jump ship.

a low price, there are other things in life that are more important to worry about. (imo)

erikals
12-22-2017, 01:23 PM
As far as I can tell, the most difficult thing on our side is trying to parse all of the various 'deals' and figure out who qualifies for what. I know for a fact that some related inquiries have already been resolved to mutual satisfaction, but it's going to take some time to work through the pile.

yes, creating some charts in some form might be of help?
https://www.google.no/search?q=upgrade+price&client=firefox-b-ab&dcr=0&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVy52yuZ7YAhVjIJoKHUfNCCkQ_AUICigB&biw=1733&bih=1236

DrStrik9
12-22-2017, 02:04 PM
Yes, if it's only ~ $300 (is it?) then it does make sense to upgrade. I like erikals' car. :+) A chart is also a great idea. But then, LW3D dev communication style in general wouldn't really support that idea, right? :+)

erikals
12-22-2017, 02:19 PM
yep, for 4 months cost is $300
(through March 31, 2018)

agree, chart is not LW style perhaps, we shall see... :)

SBowie
12-22-2017, 02:21 PM
Yes, if it's only ~ $300 (is it?) then it does make sense to upgrade. I like erikals' car. :+) A chart is also a great idea. But then, LW3D dev communication style in general wouldn't really support that idea, right? :+)It’s definitely $295 for anyone, in the intro period, and I have been able to confirm that taking advantage of that offer will not cancel out anyone’s existing charter member benefits (though of course the purchase would count against the original 5 consecutive upgrades).

Much beyond that, and I’m afraid the chart might start to look like this one: https://www.google.no/search?client=firefox-b-ab&dcr=0&biw=768&bih=909&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=pXU9WpCeNobamwGctIygBg&q=charts+and+graphs&oq=charts&gs_l=mobile-gws-img.1.1.0l5.13174.20956.0.22440.19.18.0.1.1.0.179. 2544.0j18.18.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-img..1.17.2407.0..0i5i30k1j0i24k1j0i13k1j0i67k1.0. oiqM6QojDds&gfe_rd=mr&pli=1#gfe_rd=mr&imgrc=B3v-pMDLEQ0pGM:&pli=1

Of course, I don’t speak for Sales, so just trying to clarify one or two things.

SBowie
12-22-2017, 02:24 PM
yep, for 4 months cost is $300Isn’t that deal just until the end of March.

erikals
12-22-2017, 03:00 PM
yep, for 4 months cost is $300
(through March 31, 2018)
yes, in parenthesis.
(edited the text afterwards i think)


https://www.google.no/search?client=firefox-b-ab&dcr=0&biw=768&bih=909&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=pXU9WpCeNobamwGctIygBg&q=charts+and+graphs&oq=charts&gs_l=mobile-gws-img.1.1.0l5.13174.20956.0.22440.19.18.0.1.1.0.179. 2544.0j18.18.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-img..1.17.2407.0..0i5i30k1j0i24k1j0i13k1j0i67k1.0. oiqM6QojDds&gfe_rd=mr&pli=1#gfe_rd=mr&imgrc=B3v-pMDLEQ0pGM:&pli=1
ouch, isn't that a tad exaggerated?
nevertheless, something to consider.

i'm no marketing guy though... so i'll leave this for the professionals.

lardbros
12-22-2017, 04:09 PM
The nevron rig that you retarget to is not good either. Rubbery deforms common to lightwave. Like I said. It will work for some. Depends on the quality you're aiming for.

Lol, the rig is fine.
If you're going to judge retargeting purely based on the rig then you really have no idea.
The rig for nevron is IDENTICAL to the one in Vicon Blade. So you CAN try to argue that the rig in Nevron is crap, and the deformations are crap, but the rig is the same as very high end mocap software. If the rig was crap then surely Vicon wouldn't use that rig to capture mocap in the first place?

Also, you can add as many weight maps and hold bones as you wish. It all looks great to me. Yes, we don't have muscle and skin simulation, but my mocap looks great using nevron.

Wickedpup
12-22-2017, 04:57 PM
It’s definitely $295 for anyone, in the intro period, and I have been able to confirm that taking advantage of that offer will not cancel out anyone’s existing charter member benefits (though of course the purchase would count against the original 5 consecutive upgrades).
Now the first part was just what I wanted to hear.....but I need that underlined part explained to me 8~

jperk
12-22-2017, 05:29 PM
Can Jan1st come any sooner?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agfX4pJs-vo

SBowie
12-22-2017, 05:58 PM
....but I need that underlined part explained to me 8~Well, let's try again. The charter deal, from the outset, involved the next 5 consecutive upgrades'. . Each subsequent upgrade purchases reduces that number by one - as will this one, if purchased.

Marander
12-22-2017, 06:36 PM
Can Jan1st come any sooner?


Just out of curiosity, did you get an upgrade price offer from Educational already or have you bought full LW in the meantime?

jperk
12-22-2017, 07:55 PM
Just out of curiosity, did you get an upgrade price offer from Educational already or have you bought full LW in the meantime?

How do I convert an educational license to a commercial license?
If you decide you wish to convert to a commercial license, the educational license can be upgraded to commercial for the same low price that a commercial user would pay to upgrade their commercial license to the latest version. Most other products make an educational user pay full price to get to the commercial license. You can do the upgrade to commercial at any time, but if you choose to do it when an upgrade is on offer, then it is a simple matter of buying that upgrade at the commercial upgrade price.

source
(https://www.lightwave3d.com/support/faq/educational/?t=14;i=30;#edu-basics-30)

Revanto
12-22-2017, 08:43 PM
Just a note in regards to the 'cheap' $300 upgrade price. 'Cheap' is a relative term. I've had Lightwave for years now and, financially, I haven't made much money out of it's use. There were years where I would struggle financially so $300 would have been a lot of money to me back then. It still is for me today, actually, but at least I have a modicum of financial security (for the moment). I've set aside money especially for the upgrade for close to a year now.

Anyway, has anyone who beta tested LW2018 can tell me if LW has actually got a way to control image sequences in Layout, yet?

I know there is a plugin you can buy but I've been wishing for this sort of things for years. You can do it in After Effects using time remapping and when I discovered this, I practically cried tears of joy. The ability to manually control image sequences in Layout just like you can in After Effects would have incredible uses.

Revanto :p

gar26lw
12-22-2017, 08:45 PM
why is it that the educational version isn’t free?

fablefox
12-22-2017, 10:53 PM
How do I convert an educational license to a commercial license?
If you decide you wish to convert to a commercial license, the educational license can be upgraded to commercial for the same low price that a commercial user would pay to upgrade their commercial license to the latest version. Most other products make an educational user pay full price to get to the commercial license. You can do the upgrade to commercial at any time, but if you choose to do it when an upgrade is on offer, then it is a simple matter of buying that upgrade at the commercial upgrade price.

source
(https://www.lightwave3d.com/support/faq/educational/?t=14;i=30;#edu-basics-30)

I just screenshot that page. Maybe this time is a good time to convert my LW 10 edu to commercial 2018.

samurai_x
12-22-2017, 10:57 PM
Lol, the rig is fine.
If you're going to judge retargeting purely based on the rig then you really have no idea.
The rig for nevron is IDENTICAL to the one in Vicon Blade. So you CAN try to argue that the rig in Nevron is crap, and the deformations are crap, but the rig is the same as very high end mocap software. If the rig was crap then surely Vicon wouldn't use that rig to capture mocap in the first place?

Also, you can add as many weight maps and hold bones as you wish. It all looks great to me. Yes, we don't have muscle and skin simulation, but my mocap looks great using nevron.

Which rig are you using for animation AFTER you retarget with nevron in lightwave? If you say the animation rig came with nevron then conversation is over. It "looks good" for you but some people need quality. The rigs in nevron and using single kinect based on the microsoft system like in nevron, suck.

lardbros
12-23-2017, 02:04 AM
Okay... We're going about this the wrong way.
What is missing from the nevron rig, that you need for your mocap retargeting?

I will always agree, that Kinect based mocap stuff is terrible. But using Vicon systems produces seriously impressive motion capture, no matter what rig I use. No sliding feet and very nice motion.

Marander
12-23-2017, 02:13 AM
How do I convert an educational license to a commercial license?
If you decide you wish to convert to a commercial license, the educational license can be upgraded to commercial for the same low price that a commercial user would pay to upgrade their commercial license to the latest version. Most other products make an educational user pay full price to get to the commercial license. You can do the upgrade to commercial at any time, but if you choose to do it when an upgrade is on offer, then it is a simple matter of buying that upgrade at the commercial upgrade price.

source
(https://www.lightwave3d.com/support/faq/educational/?t=14;i=30;#edu-basics-30)

Thanks for answering. That's great for you but a bit a slap in the face for the users that paid $1k+ for a full license and kept it upgraded.

In my opinion Edu should be free and Commercial have a proper price.

Wickedpup
12-23-2017, 02:20 AM
The charter deal, from the outset, involved the next 5 consecutive upgrades'. . Each subsequent upgrade purchases reduces that number by one - as will this one, if purchased. Thanks. That was a given for me...then I have heard what I needed to hear and will be upgrading. :D

gar26lw
12-23-2017, 02:33 AM
Thanks for answering. That's great for you but a bit a slap in the face for the users that paid $1k+ for a full license and kept it upgraded

out of interest, how much would that total, since say, from the just prior to the core mess onwards ?

so what it’s cost for those that have stuck it out.

erikals
12-23-2017, 03:13 AM
Just a note in regards to the 'cheap' $300 upgrade price. 'Cheap' is a relative term. I've had Lightwave for years now and, financially, I haven't made much money out of it's use. There were years where I would struggle financially so $300 would have been a lot of money to me back then. It still is for me today, actually, but at least I have a modicum of financial security (for the moment). I've set aside money especially for the upgrade for close to a year now.

there are many "starving artists", and LightWave is damn cheap if you are working in the industry.
it is hardly relative if you live in a country like the US, or in Western Europe.

if you can't make a decent income using it (in US/WE), it is hardly LightWave's fault.
then you either have to look at
1-your marketing skills
2-your artistic skills
3-getting new clients (this actually goes under 1.)

not saying it is an easy industry, it is not. some clients wants an add for $10
but you can't blame LightWave for the things mentioned.

Revanto
12-23-2017, 03:46 AM
not saying it is an easy industry, it is not. some clients wants an add for $10
but you can't blame LightWave for the things mentioned.

No, I'm not blaming Lightwave for this. What I am basically pointing out is that there are those who have chosen 3d as their occupational preference but may or may not have the luxury calling something 'cheap' when they could possibly be struggling financially in general. They may be good at 3d or bad at it. That doesn't matter.
Right now, I can consider $300 as 'affordable' because I have financial security. But, when I was struggling, I would have definitely seen it as expensive. Back then I would have been angry at the guys on this board who thought that $300 was considered cheap. I probably wouldn't had said anything about it, though.

I've had my share of clients who expect the moon and only want to pay a pittance, or spending 40+ hours working on a product to sell online and only making pennies from it. But I don't blame the software. This is just how society works (sadly...)

Rev.

erikals
12-23-2017, 04:18 AM
This is just how society works (sadly...)
yes. it is. just read an article in regards to the rich/poor imbalance in the US.
hopefully it will get better in the future.

70% of your success is in sale, not the product you deliver, but how good you are at marketing yourself / your product.


I've had my share of clients who expect the moon and only want to pay a pittance, or spending 40+ hours working on a product to sell online and only making pennies from it.
you never should have done it. i have done this myself.
don't sell cheap, it will burn your energy and your ca$h.
and, it promotes keeping wages low. don't.

it might mean changing fields.
or, work part time CG

MichaelT
12-23-2017, 05:42 AM
Okay... We're going about this the wrong way.
What is missing from the nevron rig, that you need for your mocap retargeting?

I will always agree, that Kinect based mocap stuff is terrible. But using Vicon systems produces seriously impressive motion capture, no matter what rig I use. No sliding feet and very nice motion.

Yeah but that is also like $150000-ish. Hardly something most people would pick up on their own. Certainly not any of the people worried about the cost of LW in any case ;) I would go with the nevron rig. If you need full capture, there is this too: http://www.dynamixyz.com/pricing Or if you're on a budget: http://optitrack.com/systems/#animation/flex-3/6 Or even this: https://structure.io If you are really tight.. then you might already have the tech you need in your pocket... the iphone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql8VmuU130w

ianr
12-23-2017, 07:29 AM
OK, I guess I'll weigh in here ... my very first thought was to say something snarky, like, "What's this Lightwave you speak of?" :devil:

But after all this time, as I read through the various expectations, tentative excitement, disappointments about undo, etc., I realize that Lightwave is like an old classic truck from decades ago that is painstakingly restored and maintained, with rebuilt engine, altered with newer parts only when absolutely necessary, new chrome wheels, new tires, fresh paint, wax, shined up, and driven only on Sundays, and never when it rains. You won't find bluetooth, cruise control, heated seats, great mileage, or a modern look and feel, but it DOES go down the road quickly, and with a certain kind of nostalgic style, which some old dudes and those who appreciate history find quite charming and fun.

138941

I don't know yet if I'll upgrade. I am indeed an old dude who has loved Lightwave, but I think I might just wait and see ...

Congratulations to LW3D dev team for finally bringing this old beauty up to its next releasable incarnation. I wish you the greatest success.


A wonderful analogy, they should be ringing you up from Pixar shortly.

ianr
12-23-2017, 07:33 AM
a $300 upgrade is a great value, especially if you are already a LW user and find the workflow alright.

it's almost foolish not to.

and if you use it to make money, there's no question really, $300 is basically free.


yes, the LightWave car is basically this in its current shape...

https://i.imgur.com/zT33C78.jpg


Yeah, but here comes LW2018 round the bend! https://vimeo.com/246726486 ENJOY! YOU CAN SMELL IT!

jperk
12-23-2017, 07:49 AM
Thanks for answering. That's great for you but a bit a slap in the face for the users that paid $1k+ for a full license and kept it upgraded.

In my opinion Edu should be free and Commercial have a proper price.

I happened to be a student who took advantage of LW2015 educational version (it was all I could afford as a student). Only students/teachers in a academic institution with proof can purchase a educational version — so it's not available to everyone. The LW2018 promo upgrade really helps me out because I just graduated and I can no longer purchase educational versions since I'm out of school.

silviotoledo
12-23-2017, 08:22 AM
Anttij77

May you do some videos showing the new modify stack capabilities?
And also the new tools to create morphs directly on layout and how to automate the process of adding corrective morphs.




Another video showing some of the differences between 2015 and 2018 shading and lighting systems.

https://youtu.be/OCN99kC2Ons

Marander
12-23-2017, 08:48 AM
I happened to be a student who took advantage of LW2015 educational version (it was all I could afford as a student). Only students/teachers in a academic institution with proof can purchase a educational version — so it's not available to everyone. The LW2018 promo upgrade really helps me out because I just graduated and I can no longer purchase educational versions since I'm out of school.

I'm happy for you. And even more I find it honorable for young guys like you to use payed commercial software.

Chris S. (Fez)
12-23-2017, 09:32 AM
I use Arnold with Max. The more I learn about Lightwave 2018 surfacing and rendering the more I think $295 is a steal. Particularly the free network rendering and excellent support for online farms. Autodesk went out of their way to handicap and make Arnold prohibitively costly for online farms.

I am still puzzled about the cautious marketing regarding mesh performance and curious to see how 2018 Layout viewports compare to other programs.

Amerelium
12-23-2017, 09:45 AM
What's wrong with people? There's quite a few here that has been whining constantly in here that there are no updates. And then when they announce 'hey, new version released next month' you whine about that as well?

Go use some other software, and vacate these boards please...

As for my part; v2018 looking good, gonna check it out.

50one
12-23-2017, 09:51 AM
Hey Amerelium!

I'll help you understand..imagine your business partner disappeared for 8 mnths. Then out of nowhere, he's saying all is good and will visit you in January....and when you ask him questions all his friends are telling you that you whine like b.tch :D:D:D

Edit:

Would love to know if the real camera data was updated...

SteveH
12-23-2017, 11:26 AM
I get what you are saying 50one. I'm going the Trust but Verify route with Newtek myself. They have definitely broken my trust with zero communication over the last year - but they are alive once again and at some point we just have to get over it. Let's see what the new version brings and go from there. It might not have as many new improvements as some people want and I get that. Upgrade or don't your choice. But holding a grudge for the broken trust just isn't helpful as it won't change the past. I'm happy they are alive and talking again - that's enough or me at this point.

Photogram
12-23-2017, 11:39 AM
Hey there is an update to the Lightwave Blog!!

https://blog.lightwave3d.com/

jperk
12-23-2017, 11:45 AM
I'm happy for you. And even more I find it honorable for young guys like you to use payed commercial software.

Thank you for understanding my situation.

Photogram
12-23-2017, 12:29 PM
I have a question about retro compatibility.

Does it will possible with Lightwave 2018 to save scene back to Lightwave 2015?
I know that the new deformation stack or new renderer pbr material will no be retro compatible.
I just wondering if there will be an export or save scene as LW2015. (For example after baked all motions and set the surfaces to legacy shaders)
Actually we can save back to Lightwave 9.2

Thanks :)

Greenlaw
12-23-2017, 01:06 PM
Anyway, has anyone who beta tested LW2018 can tell me if LW has actually got a way to control image sequences in Layout, yet?

Not natively, but I got FrameD the other day for LightWave to help me with re-sequencing 2D animation drawings inside LightWave. If you buy the current release for $129, you get the 2018 version free when it's released Jan 1st. It's a good deal right now because the price will then go up to $188. I know that's not 'cheap' but if you really need this capability, it's best way to work with resequencing image sequences inside LightWave. (BTW, similar deal going on for DB&W's other plugins like exrTrader and infiniMap.) I've used the current version at my workplace but I don't have the 2018 version to test it yet. (Not that I have the time to test it now anyway.)

I'm not sure what kind of images you need to re-sequence for LightWave, so the following techniques may or may not be appropriate to your needs. For me, I need a quick system for animating and lipsyncing 2D facial animations for characters, and mapping them onto 3D characters.

In my two Brudders 3D shorts, I used Magpie Pro to sequence the 2D mouth shapes for LightWave. That setup works great for me! Magpie Pro is a very fast and interactive system that is compatible with many 2D and 3D animation programs. Unfortunately Third Wish appears to be out of business now. My big concern now is that if the two computers I have Magpie Pro installed on ever conk out, I won't be able to reactivate it again. :(

But here's a good 2D alternative: Recently, at my workplace, I used Moho 12 Pro (a 2D animation program that has remakable similarities to 3D rigging) to create 2D mouth and eyes animations mapped onto 3D characters. Moho lets you create set-driven key type controls called Smart Bone Dials to flip through and keyframe many dozens of drawing very quickly. I use this technique for switching mouth shapes and hand drawings for 2D shows nearly everyday. One really cool feature that was just added is the ability to smooth interpolate between groups of shapes (for example, a mouth shape masking teeth and tongue drawings) when you switch drawings. The developers are now working on a system to morph arbitrary point sets, which should make drawing and animating the shapes even more flexible. This system is ideal for generating animated 2D textures for LightWave, if you don't mind working in two programs. I guess the 'drawback' is that you need to output the animated textures for entire scenes externally, but that's really not a big deal most of the time.

If all you want is \advanced re-sequencing of image sequences inside LightWave, FrameD is probably the way to go. With FrameD, you can do the artwork sequencing inside LightWave and see the result directly on the character as you animate it...that's arguably more efficient than editing and rendering a very long image sequence from another program and re-importing it. Maybe one 'drawback' is that you won't have the interpolated 2D morphing capability in Moho 12 Pro, but then you may not even need that.

Greenlaw
12-23-2017, 01:17 PM
I have a question about retro compatibility.

Does it will possible with Lightwave 2018 to save scene back to Lightwave 2015?

LightWave 2018 lets you export scene files for Lightwave versions 4.0 on up to 2015.3.

Objects are another issue. You can't use LightWave 2018 objects in earlier versions because it's a new format containing the advanced surface data and other stuff that 2015.3 and earlier won't understand.

However, you can export objects as LWO2 from 2018 for backwards compatibility. I don't think this converts surfaces to ealier formats (untested by me anyway,) so you'll probably need to re-construct them to render in earlier versions of LightWave. But if you only have a 2018 version of your object, this at least gives you a compatible object to use older LightWave versions (or any program that supports LightWave objects.)

jeric_synergy
12-23-2017, 01:43 PM
Good info. I wonder (idly) if Surfaces are at all compatible, ie are there some features one could avoid that would allow easier retro compatibility.

OTOH, probably NOT worthwhile to expend any coding resources on. Mostly an academic issue, no?

Revanto
12-23-2017, 08:02 PM
... if you really need this capability, it's best way to work with resequencing image sequences inside LightWave.

I'm not sure what kind of images you need to re-sequence for LightWave, so the following techniques may or may not be appropriate to your needs. For me, I need a quick system for animating and lipsyncing 2D facial animations for characters, and mapping them onto 3D characters.

In my two Brudders 3D shorts, I used Magpie Pro to sequence the 2D mouth shapes for LightWave.

I have heard of the FrameD plugin but was hoping for a some cheaper alternative. But it's probably something I would consider down the track. I plan to use this to help with animating 2d textures for video game effects and might also create my own 2d character creation tool kind of like Hero Machine but using image sequences instead.

I tried Magpie in the past but, in the end, I preferred using After Effects as it had more potential. I tried setting up some kind of 2d character creator in AE but it became too fiddly.

In FrameD, though, can you control multiple image sequences with one controller (null or slider)?

Revanto :p

SBowie
12-23-2017, 08:26 PM
...and when you ask him questions all his friends are telling you that you whine like b.tchI haven't seen any answerable questions that have not been answered. Actually, come to think about it, no-one has really criticized anyone simply asking questions, actually.

Remoc
12-24-2017, 02:01 AM
Had they marketed & hyped this update, it still would of been released on this date. But I do agree they could of kept us a little more informed.
I even started learning Maya as a backup. I very relieved lightwave goes on. And remember by purchasing the update Newtek makes money & this pushes further development.

Amerelium
12-24-2017, 06:31 AM
...u still got the coolest avatar like EVER



Hey Amerelium!

I'll help you understand..imagine your business partner disappeared for 8 mnths. Then out of nowhere, he's saying all is good and will visit you in January....and when you ask him questions all his friends are telling you that you whine like b.tch :D:D:D

Edit:

Would love to know if the real camera data was updated...

rustythe1
12-24-2017, 07:22 AM
LightWave 2018 lets you export scene files for Lightwave versions 4.0 on up to 2015.3.

Objects are another issue. You can't use LightWave 2018 objects in earlier versions because it's a new format containing the advanced surface data and other stuff that 2015.3 and earlier won't understand.

However, you can export objects as LWO2 from 2018 for backwards compatibility. I don't think this converts surfaces to ealier formats (untested by me anyway,) so you'll probably need to re-construct them to render in earlier versions of LightWave. But if you only have a 2018 version of your object, this at least gives you a compatible object to use older LightWave versions (or any program that supports LightWave objects.)

wouldn't exporting to fbx retain image maps and colours? (just not nodes) so there would be less work?

50one
12-24-2017, 03:17 PM
Was there a screenshot or video of the undockable windows posted somewhere??

lardbros
12-25-2017, 02:27 PM
Yeah but that is also like $150000-ish. Hardly something most people would pick up on their own. Certainly not any of the people worried about the cost of LW in any case ;) I would go with the nevron rig. If you need full capture, there is this too: http://www.dynamixyz.com/pricing Or if you're on a budget: http://optitrack.com/systems/#animation/flex-3/6 Or even this: https://structure.io If you are really tight.. then you might already have the tech you need in your pocket... the iphone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql8VmuU130w

Think my comments have been sort of taken out if context.

I was just saying that I think the nevron rig is perfect for mocap retargeting, as it's identical to the one found in Vicon tools.
The point I was trying to make was that someone said that the nevron rig is basic and deformation etc was rubbery and crap, but I was trying to say that if our Vicon system (which is very expensive, I realise that) captures our mocap data using the exact same rig as nevron, then how can the nevron rig AND the Vicon rig be bad?
I think nevron and the nevron rig is perfectly good for mocap retargeting.
Go Newtek! :)
(As a test, I did the exact same mocap retargeting using 3dsmax...i had to spend more than four times as long, weighting my character and manually picking bones and which ones they were matched with. Whereas in LW you get auto weighting and can easily add hold bones where you need them.)

caustics
12-26-2017, 08:22 AM
Just a reminder for those like me counting the seconds ...

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20180101T1201&p0=136&msg=Lightwave+3D+2018+Launch&font=cursive&csz=1

Vong
12-26-2017, 02:00 PM
The only problem with that timer, is that it shows the release as 12:01 _PM_ GMT (London Time), when the release will happen at 12:01 _AM_ GMT, per the Lightwave3D.com website. :D

caustics
12-26-2017, 02:14 PM
Yep ... sorry for this am/pm mess-up ... the good thing is you saved me a whole 12 hours ;-)

Here is the updated countdown ...

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20180101T0001&p0=136&msg=LightWave+2018+Launch&font=sanserif

jeric_synergy
12-26-2017, 06:04 PM
Oh, the first couple of hours the servers will be limping along under the deluge anyway.

I usually give it a day to calm down.

Photogram
12-26-2017, 06:32 PM
Objects are another issue. You can't use LightWave 2018 objects in earlier versions because it's a new format containing the advanced surface data and other stuff that 2015.3 and earlier won't understand.


Thanks Greenlaw for the precise answer. I just realized that the 2018 modeler does had an important update to handle the new object format and as i read somewhere the new pbr open GL is also now implemented in modeler ;)

gamedesign1
12-26-2017, 11:28 PM
Thanks Greenlaw for the precise answer. I just realized that the 2018 modeler does had an important update to handle the new object format and as i read somewhere the new pbr open GL is also now implemented in modeler ;)

Thats great, where did you read that?

inquisitive
12-27-2017, 12:45 AM
What's wrong with people? There's quite a few here that has been whining constantly in here that there are no updates. And then when they announce 'hey, new version released next month' you whine about that as well?

Go use some other software, and vacate these boards please...

As for my part; v2018 looking good, gonna check it out.

Haha, my thoughts exactly... :) I am ready to upgrade, just waiting for 1/1/18

Note to Newtek:
I have been an user since the Amiga days, your efforts are appreciated, Thank you Team!

alesxander
12-27-2017, 01:07 PM
only 4 days left and I am very anxious :)

Fernee
12-27-2017, 04:19 PM
It´s going to be a crowded place.... this 01/01/2018....:)

Photogram
12-27-2017, 04:27 PM
Thats great, where did you read that?

I don't remember where and finally not sure about pbr in modeler but for me it seems logical. We have a new lwo format with extra mesh data and the surface editor in modeler have the new prb settings so i think Modeler has been updated for the new mesh type. Modeler need to understand and manage the new mesh format so it probably need the new open gl enhancements.

Maybe i just extrapolate after seeing one of the video where we can see the new surface editor in Modeler 2018 ;)

https://vimeo.com/246043519

Photogram
12-27-2017, 04:33 PM
In this video we see what look like the new open gl in modeler maybe i'm wrong with that too but i think i never see highlights like theses while modeling in previous version of modeler...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTTcyqecdcM&index=14&list=PLj9_usU74aACFeaQnvH5MC7RdS5QvEqup

Lee Groves
12-29-2017, 04:35 AM
All I ask is FiberFX does not crash lightwave when you try to create long hair.
Is that too much to ask?

CaptainMarlowe
12-29-2017, 05:31 AM
Sahin Michael Derun posted this comment on FB about new FFX in 2018 :
For those people who asked about the new FFX in LW, here are my thoughts.
The most impressive FFX to date. It is fast.. I worked on an old machine just to test it, with GI you can work on VPR without getting old waiting for it to appear. It's almost real time on VPR. Renders fast.. The dog was done in 3 hrs of work, rendered with LW Depth of Field on in 12 mins. 09 seconds. I still don't like the modeler strand maker stuff, I could never do anything there but in layout edit guides is magical.. I love it, and now that we are here, I will make few suggestions o development team to improve the workflow better in the future.

Anttij77
12-29-2017, 09:09 AM
Hello,

I have a new video available.

https://youtu.be/fojnvFIQRsg

CaptainMarlowe
12-29-2017, 09:36 AM
Very cool, thanks.

Snosrap
12-29-2017, 10:54 AM
Hello,

I have a new video available.

https://youtu.be/fojnvFIQRsg

Cool Antti!! Question - is there an accessibility shader or something along the lines of the EE grit node? Your little statuette in the video would have dirt and grime stuck down in the crevices, is there a way to produce that with your new system?

Looking great so far. Thanks!

gamedesign1
12-29-2017, 11:32 AM
Shader is looking great :)
One thing I don't understand is there are two main PBR methods going around. Spec/Gloss and Metal/Rough seem to be the most common and I thought the combination of the those two attributes (of either method) could create all variations of any material. But now with this new shader there is Spec/Rough/Metal. One thing that I am wondering is how a Spec/Gloss or Metal/Rough workflow in Substance is going to work with this shader?

Anttij77
12-29-2017, 12:34 PM
Cool Antti!! Question - is there an accessibility shader or something along the lines of the EE grit node? Your little statuette in the video would have dirt and grime stuck down in the crevices, is there a way to produce that with your new system?

Looking great so far. Thanks!

I would need to write a node for it. But you can use the occlusion node to a certain degree.

pinkmouse
12-29-2017, 01:08 PM
...I would need to write a node for it...

Please! Pretty pleeeease! :D

bazsa73
12-29-2017, 01:37 PM
Hyvä Antti!

Snosrap
12-29-2017, 03:01 PM
I would need to write a node for it. But you can use the occlusion node to a certain degree.

Would that be a curvature node? Are 3rd parties going to be able to write stuff?

Every4thPixel
12-29-2017, 03:11 PM
After watching this vid https://youtu.be/Cr1PC0iI3IE about the lighting I got a question. There doesn’t seem to be any volumetric reflection in the ground plane. Is it possible to get volumetric reflections in the new lw?

Nicolas Jordan
12-29-2017, 03:13 PM
Hello,

I have a new video available.

https://youtu.be/fojnvFIQRsg

Thanks! About half way through I got a look at the GI options in 2018 and I'm relieved to see all the options I have become accustom to still there right where they should be. :)

Anttij77
12-29-2017, 03:28 PM
Would that be a curvature node?

No.


Are 3rd parties going to be able to write stuff?

Yes.

- - - Updated - - -


After watching this vid https://youtu.be/Cr1PC0iI3IE about the lighting I got a question. There doesn’t seem to be any volumetric reflection in the ground plane. Is it possible to get volumetric reflections in the new lw?

Yes, everything is fully ray traced.

Snosrap
12-29-2017, 03:52 PM
Sweet!

Asticles
12-29-2017, 05:39 PM
Hey, look at the surface presets!

2:38


https://youtu.be/xRCReLzuDSA?t=159

Sanchon
12-29-2017, 06:10 PM
Hey, look at the surface presets!

2:38


https://youtu.be/xRCReLzuDSA?t=159

More interesting is new bucket rendering :) Good bye scanline renderer ?

Wickedpup
12-30-2017, 12:51 AM
More interesting is new bucket rendering :) Good bye scanline renderer ?
Not bucket rendering..... http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155395-LW-2018-PBR-renderer&highlight=2018+bucket

50one
12-30-2017, 03:01 AM
So is that like buckets just different name? I thought we're getting bucket rendering even Matt hinted it at some point...

I can see some folks talk about distributed rendering as buckets...

Marander
12-30-2017, 05:08 AM
So is that like buckets just different name? I thought we're getting bucket rendering even Matt hinted it at some point...

I can see some folks talk about distributed rendering as buckets...

Afaik with bucket rendering you can distrubute a single large frame, with tiled rendering only complete frames. As far as I understand LW2018 doesn't support single image distribution no buckets. Most modern render engines can switch between bucket and progressive. We"ll see soon...

gamedesign1
12-30-2017, 05:21 AM
Afaik with bucket rendering you can distrubute a single large frame, with tiled rendering only complete frames. As far as I understand LW2018 doesn't support single image distribution no buckets. Most modern render engines can switch between bucket and progressive. We"ll see soon...

Well since apparently the VPR is now exactly the same engine as the final render engine, I don't see why they can't give both options at some point so you can use progressive as well for your final render. I personally find progressive very handy when using Octane. I can get quick animations out that give a really good sense of what the final images will be without waiting for it to refine everything. Also as someone mentioned before its really handy when you know how much render time you have before sending over to your client, you can just render fo that time. Octane is great for that, so hopefully LightWave will be too one day.

Anttij77
12-30-2017, 05:47 AM
Hello,

New video about the new light options, portal lights and the primitive light.

https://youtu.be/_SjP11gFhwM

Bitboy
12-30-2017, 06:05 AM
Thanks for all the great videos Antti. Please keep them coming. Can't wait to get LW 2018 :)

Happy New Year!

Dillon
12-30-2017, 07:30 AM
Holy crap!

That is all.



Hello,

New video about the new light options, portal lights and the primitive light.

https://youtu.be/_SjP11gFhwM

gamedesign1
12-30-2017, 07:51 AM
Hello,

New video about the new light options, portal lights and the primitive light.

https://youtu.be/_SjP11gFhwM

Thanks Antti, really appreciate your time doing these.

Asticles
12-30-2017, 09:19 AM
Hello,

New video about the new light options, portal lights and the primitive light.

https://youtu.be/_SjP11gFhwM

Thanks!

Can't wait to play with it!

50one
12-30-2017, 11:53 AM
Afaik with bucket rendering you can distrubute a single large frame, with tiled rendering only complete frames. As far as I understand LW2018 doesn't support single image distribution no buckets. Most modern render engines can switch between bucket and progressive. We"ll see soon...

Looking at last video posted by Anti, that looks like bucket to me with circular pattern - tiles/buckets or not, seems to be step in right direction ;)

tyrot
12-30-2017, 12:01 PM
another great video ... Antti you just rock! eagerly waiting your GI and photoreal rendering videos. Great features ... man ... F9 `native` strikes back!

monkeeboy
12-30-2017, 12:06 PM
138803

I posted this earlier in this thread, but since the people behind Lightwave seem to be answering a few questions, can you tell me have the Sliders been updated? They've had these problems since Lightwave 8 (which when my first version of Lightwave)!

I noticed you're using LW10. In LW2015 the sliders do indeed have a darker background as per your request, so that you can see them more easily. You can also colour them individually for more clarity too (see attached screenshot). Yes, they appear in all viewports by default but if any are in the way simply drag them out of the way, using the toggle icon. (You can also minimise the sliders to just the top bar). I agree the left right buttons are pointless but I think the whole thing was intended more just for visual reference as it sounds to me like everything you are requesting is already part of the morph mixer window! i.e only one window (floating and moveable), solid background, left-right buttons work incrementally, numerical input can be typed in :-/

prometheus
12-30-2017, 12:46 PM
Im sorry, haven´t bothered following all the posts here, thus my question may have been answered, I am wondering if a Demo release will be available first of january as well?

Looking forward to try out the new light types indeed, as well as the new volumetrics..some questions that I would like to get answered is about wether or not Ies lights will work, or if it´s replaced with something better, or if it is removed?

And I am curious to see how the new voxel system works with particles, especially the blending mode between particles..since that was not so good in previous lw versions, and also how sprites are working now and how coloring with gradients and presets can be applied with the new volumetric system.
I really do not need any direct answers on it though, If the demo is released on the first of January, then I could try for myself.

rustythe1
12-30-2017, 01:33 PM
yes demo is up at exactly the same time as its not really a demo, its the full version you just install it in demo mode, then after that it defaults back to discovery until you drop a licence in (at least that's how it used to work) https://www.lightwave3d.com/news/article/newtek-announces-latest-release-of-lightwave-3d-2018/ all info on pricing and release has been in the main website for a while now

Nicolas Jordan
12-30-2017, 02:29 PM
Hello,

New video about the new light options, portal lights and the primitive light.

https://youtu.be/_SjP11gFhwM

Very nice! I can't wait to try these out in my architectural renderings!

jperk
12-30-2017, 06:24 PM
1 more day.. (www.howmanydaysuntil.org/p/january-1-2018.html)

Paul_Boland
12-30-2017, 08:00 PM
I noticed you're using LW10. In LW2015 the sliders do indeed have a darker background as per your request, so that you can see them more easily. You can also colour them individually for more clarity too (see attached screenshot). Yes, they appear in all viewports by default but if any are in the way simply drag them out of the way, using the toggle icon. (You can also minimise the sliders to just the top bar). I agree the left right buttons are pointless but I think the whole thing was intended more just for visual reference as it sounds to me like everything you are requesting is already part of the morph mixer window! i.e only one window (floating and moveable), solid background, left-right buttons work incrementally, numerical input can be typed in :-/

Thanks for the reply. Already had a huge thread on this on the forums here about the Sliders. The wait continues for a proper, full, Sliders update.

Ztreem
12-31-2017, 05:21 AM
You could also just build your own sliders, but they would be quite limited in options but very customizable in apperance.

fishhead
12-31-2017, 08:39 AM
Really love what I see so far, Antti! Great work all of you!!! :-)

On a slightly different note:
As the hours are passing and the big moment is getting nearer and nearer, I wonder if it will be possible during the purchase process for us EU folks to have the VAT passed by if you provide a proper tax ID?
I just checked the process by going through the (free) steps of purchasing a "new" 2015.3 license but I was not able to find an inputfield for a tax ID.

rcallicotte
12-31-2017, 09:22 AM
Thanks Antti for all the reveals!!!

Sean Martin
12-31-2017, 01:27 PM
Just wondering, will we be getting some new surface presets? or will 2018 still ship with the 1980's presets?

unplug_2k2
12-31-2017, 01:46 PM
Have they ever mention the possibility of having monthly subscription for Indie animator ? with all the valuable plugin updated for 2018 the final cost of a complete package is quite high. Still low maybe compare to other Autodesk solution for exemple, but still heavy on a budget.

Dillon
12-31-2017, 01:47 PM
New presets!


Just wondering, will we be getting some new surface presets? or will 2018 still ship with the 1980's presets?

- - - Updated - - -

NO sub.

jeric_synergy
12-31-2017, 01:50 PM
'Indie animator'? Is that an AD thing?

rsfd
12-31-2017, 05:45 PM
sorry to say, but:

[2018 Mac (UB) Trial Installer]
"Error: file is corrupted and cannot be opened. It is advised to put it in the trash bin".


ok, I'll be re-downloading and trying on another day…
Mac version still the stepchild?

cellomangler
12-31-2017, 05:46 PM
Just purchased and downloaded. Content still coming down the pipe. I've used Lightwave since version 1 on the Amiga, so I've developed quite the muscle memory for this app. I sometimes model and paint in other applications, but Lightwave does what I need and does it fast. Sure there are things that I'd like to see implemented... things I've asked for years ago that were never implemented.... but... whatever. Still an amazing software accomplishment and my hat's off to the programmers.
Here's the last thing I did... a little holiday animation: http://www.friendlyspider.com/blockjack_holidaze_2017.mp4

dvrba
12-31-2017, 05:49 PM
[2018 Mac (UB) Trial Installer]
"Error: file is corrupted and cannot be opened. It is advised to put it in the trash bin".


Remove the "com.apple.quarantine" extended attribute before unzipping, and it should be fine.
Using Terminal:

xattr -d com.apple.quarantine lightwave_2018_mac_installer_20180101.zip

3djoji
12-31-2017, 06:03 PM
No way to open this osx 2018 installer, just to move to trash. the file unzip automatically with safari. No way to see if a quarantine attribute is set? Who can help?

oliverhotz
12-31-2017, 06:05 PM
No way to open this osx 2018 installer, just to move to trash. the file unzip automatically with safari. No way to see if a quarantine attribute is set? Who can help?

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155330-LightWave-2018-Announcement-Discussion-Thread&p=1530157&viewfull=1#post1530157

jperk
12-31-2017, 06:11 PM
Can finally get back to work on my character I never finished!

139001

3djoji
12-31-2017, 06:34 PM
ok, working, thank you Georges!

cellomangler
12-31-2017, 06:46 PM
If the solution is to get the file unzipped, how can I get it from downloading? May be the solution is to get a working file instead. So disappointed!
I haven't used a Mac in awhile, but things that come to mind: Log in with your user ID and go to your products page where you can right click and save to the desktop... or elsewhere. Also, you can probably disable zip as an app or tool in your Safari prefs. And you could try another browser. None of this may be helpful, but it's my 2 cents.

gclayton
12-31-2017, 06:56 PM
If you are using Safari browser when downloading the macOS trial and the file is unzipped automatically, go to Safari preferences and under the General tab deselect the option to automatically open safe files. Then you can apply the command to the zip file. I was able to install after doing this.

ncr100
12-31-2017, 07:03 PM
My solution (OSX High Sierra):

Download
Unzip ( ZIP file -> Lightwave_2018.0_OSX_installer.app directory )
Run this command on the file:

[email protected] ~/Downloads $ sudo xattr -cr ./LightWave_2018.0_OSX_installer.app

Run the installer from Finder as normal

fishhead
12-31-2017, 07:29 PM
... I wonder if it will be possible during the purchase process for us EU folks to have the VAT passed by if you provide a proper tax ID?
I just checked the process ... but I was not able to find an inputfield for a tax ID.
Question was answered by support: purchases are handled by local branch (in my case: Cleverbridge Cologne) so tax refund is no problem.

prometheus
12-31-2017, 08:13 PM
Just downloaded lightwave 2018 trial, however..just coming home from some new years evening celebration, so it´s time for bed, or else I would waste a couple of hours I reckon.

Noticed that it only seem to be 64 bit now, that´s a bit of a let down..even though I can understand the reasons somebit.
It requires me having the older lightwave modeler installations anyway..since there are loads of modeling plugins available for 32 bit only, and if you are a first timer on Lightwave, you would be smoked on some good model plugins unfortunately.

30 days of demo still, just can´t understand that approach, throw in a bookmark in rendering and limitations in export etc, instead of such narrow test time..akward.

prometheus
12-31-2017, 08:28 PM
Can´t recall the procedure of the full version 30 day trials, I downloaded the trial in the main page, but also reading that you need to create an account for the trial? to get the licenes what the..I thought I should have a trial version in my account and the trial license which is aquired? so what to do when I do not got the trial license keys, do I have to register another account just for that?

Previously with lw 2015 that was in my account, not now with 2018 though, only an upgrade button and the pricing/billing information.

Matt
12-31-2017, 09:10 PM
Just wondering, will we be getting some new surface presets? or will 2018 still ship with the 1980's presets?

2018 has updated presets

Cageman
12-31-2017, 09:59 PM
Noticed that it only seem to be 64 bit now, that´s a bit of a let down..even though I can understand the reasons somebit.

L O L

It is time to move LW forward, and you complain that it is only 64 bit?

There are games out there that initially were released with 32-bit compatibility, that had to ditch that in order to move forward.

Come on... it is the worst moot point I've ever seen.

Snosrap
12-31-2017, 10:21 PM
L O L

It is time to move LW forward, and you complain that it is only 64 bit?

There are games out there that initially were released with 32-bit compatibility, that had to ditch that in order to move forward.

Come on... it is the worst moot point I've ever seen.

Yeah - I haven't used the 32bit version of LW in 8 years. - I take that back - I fired up 32bit modeler once to use Rope Editor. :)

gclayton
12-31-2017, 11:12 PM
Has anyone been able to register the Trial for LW2018?

I copied the serial from the splash screen and logged into my account and entered the serial but get an error when trying to register.

cellomangler
01-01-2018, 12:02 AM
L O L

It is time to move LW forward, and you complain that it is only 64 bit?
There are games out there that initially were released with 32-bit compatibility, that had to ditch that in order to move forward.
Come on... it is the worst moot point I've ever seen.
You mean I'm gonna have to upgrade my Windows 98 PIII workhorse ? And I just got through upgrading from an Amiga A4000 !

:boogiedow

Snosrap
01-01-2018, 12:13 AM
Has anyone been able to register the Trial for LW2018?

I copied the serial from the splash screen and logged into my account and entered the serial but get an error when trying to register.

Yep - worked no problem.

Elfedelazik
01-01-2018, 02:48 AM
139009


Hi guys,

Before maybe upgrading, I wanted to use the trial version.
I donwloaded(several times) the Mac trial version but just can't install it : Always get a message saying that it's broken and should be place in to the basket.

Any suggestion ?

Greenlaw
01-01-2018, 02:52 AM
About the only thing I was still using x32 for was DrainBGVmap in Modeler. But OD Tools 2018 comes with what appears to be a better version called Transfer Maps, that runs in x64, and it runs in both LightWave 2015 and 2018. I've used it successfully in a couple of basic tests, and plan to use it, for real, with a new character rig this week.

I'll keep Modeler 2015.3 x32 installed 'just in case,' but I probably won't need it anymore. (Fingers crossed) :)

gerry_g
01-01-2018, 04:00 AM
"Hi guys,

Before maybe upgrading, I wanted to use the trial version.
I donwloaded(several times) the Mac trial version but just can't install it : Always get a message saying that it's broken and should be place in to the basket.

Any suggestion ?"

Yeah opened it just fine with 7zx unzipped rather than the native Mac one, go figure https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/20526/7zx

pinkmouse
01-01-2018, 04:02 AM
sorry to say, but:

[2018 Mac (UB) Trial Installer]
"Error: file is corrupted and cannot be opened. It is advised to put it in the trash bin".

Mac version still the stepchild?


Remove the "com.apple.quarantine" extended attribute before unzipping, and it should be fine.
Using Terminal:

xattr -d com.apple.quarantine lightwave_2018_mac_installer_20180101.zip

2 years in development hell, and we still get stupid, stupid mistakes like this? Not a good omen...

kolby
01-01-2018, 04:02 AM
Can´t recall the procedure of the full version 30 day trials, I downloaded the trial in the main page, but also reading that you need to create an account for the trial? to get the licenes what the..I thought I should have a trial version in my account and the trial license which is aquired? so what to do when I do not got the trial license keys, do I have to register another account just for that?
Previously with lw 2015 that was in my account, not now with 2018 though, only an upgrade button and the pricing/billing information.

Copy your trial serial number from splash screen, sign in to your old account, press "Register product", paste serial. Now you have LW2018 in your products. Download 30 day trial key and throw it to splash screen. Done.

kopperdrake
01-01-2018, 04:03 AM
Really love what I see so far, Antti! Great work all of you!!! :-)

On a slightly different note:
As the hours are passing and the big moment is getting nearer and nearer, I wonder if it will be possible during the purchase process for us EU folks to have the VAT passed by if you provide a proper tax ID?
I just checked the process by going through the (free) steps of purchasing a "new" 2015.3 license but I was not able to find an inputfield for a tax ID.

Also interested in this question.

Elfedelazik
01-01-2018, 05:20 AM
"Hi guys,

Before maybe upgrading, I wanted to use the trial version.
I donwloaded(several times) the Mac trial version but just can't install it : Always get a message saying that it's broken and should be place in to the basket.

Any suggestion ?"

Yeah opened it just fine with 7zx unzipped rather than the native Mac one, go figure https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/20526/7zx

Thank you for your answer,

Unfortunately, dragging and dropping the trial installer on 7zx, I get the same message "Error: file is corrupted and cannot be opened. It is advised to put it in the trash bin"."
In french of course :)



It WORKED FINE after I modified Safari Preferences so that it doesn't automatically unzip downloads.

Thank you !

raw-m
01-01-2018, 05:23 AM
Remove the "com.apple.quarantine" extended attribute before unzipping, and it should be fine.
Using Terminal:

xattr -d com.apple.quarantine lightwave_2018_mac_installer_20180101.zip

I've changes the filename as I don't have the "_20180101" bit in the filename. All I get is "no such file". This is utter bollocks and getting me quite agitated, poor start.

UPdate, downloaded with Chrome and getting the same filename as the above now, still get a "No such file" message and unable to open Installer properly.

HELP PLEASE!!!!!!

raw-m
01-01-2018, 05:31 AM
Saviour from FB! Drag the zip to the top level of your Home directory, then run the command - massive thank you dvrba, too!

gerry_g
01-01-2018, 05:37 AM
Unfortunately, dragging and dropping the trial installer on 7zx, I get the same message "Error: file is corrupted and cannot be opened. It is advised to put it in the trash bin"."
In french of course

I retrieved my original zipped download from the trash and opened it with 7zx and I'm up and running, sorry for raising your hopes but it worked for me

Elfedelazik
01-01-2018, 05:45 AM
" Unfortunately, dragging and dropping the trial installer on 7zx, I get the same message "Error: file is corrupted and cannot be opened. It is advised to put it in the trash bin"."
In french of course

I retrieved my original zipped download from the trash and opened it with 7zx and I'm up and running, sorry for raising your hopes but it worked for me"



Gerry, You're 100% right. I modified safari preferences in order to get the.zip and 7zx opened it perfectly. Thanks again for your answers !

fishhead
01-01-2018, 05:46 AM
Also interested in this question.

I contacted support about this last night and they got back to me in less than 20 minutes! I was kinda impressed... :-)
Anyway: it appears to be no issue in general as they use Cleverbridge´s local branch for this and they got me a proper invoice which will allow me to get my VAT tax refund just as I normally get with any local purchase around here. But maybe you can just throw them a quick inquiry that it works the same for you in the UK just to make sure.

pinkmouse
01-01-2018, 05:47 AM
Zipeg also works...

Marander
01-01-2018, 06:20 AM
Yeah - I haven't used the 32bit version of LW in 8 years. - I take that back - I fired up 32bit modeler once to use Rope Editor. :)

Rope Editor works in LWM 64bit.

If it doesn't work for you I can check later what version I'm using.

prometheus
01-01-2018, 07:46 AM
L O L

It is time to move LW forward, and you complain that it is only 64 bit?

There are games out there that initially were released with 32-bit compatibility, that had to ditch that in order to move forward.

Come on... it is the worst moot point I've ever seen.

It´s just as simple as this...lw modeler with 32 bit plugins Is stronger in the sense of what it can do with all those plugins..rather than Without those plugins.

Time to move forward?...sure when they start to work on modeler for real, meanwhile I feel it is motivated to adress that issue.
And as I said in the initial post..I can understand the reasons for them going only 64 bit, and how that can make it easier to develop things and more faster later on.
Anyway...with workarounds in old modeler it is probably tolerable, though for those folks around that are new to Lightwave....the may not be able to use some of those plugins naturally, not even by going back to any older versions since they do not have it.

But if you think modeler 64 bit will be a better modeler than 32 bit? with all it´s plugin, then I question your judgement, if you only look for the future..then fine, but we are not there yet, it may also be very individual to who actually uses 32 bit plugins only, so you are not me..and I am not you.

constructively, as there is not 32 bit modeler anymore, it may be a good Idea to start a thread covering 32 bits plugins only that may be of use within a 64 bit environment, just to cover it all.

UnCommonGrafx
01-01-2018, 07:54 AM
Rope Editor works in LWM 64bit.

If it doesn't work for you I can check later what version I'm using.

Get in touch with Norman if it's not working as you need the 64 bit version.
Robert

prometheus
01-01-2018, 08:02 AM
Copy your trial serial number from splash screen, sign in to your old account, press "Register product", paste serial. Now you have LW2018 in your products. Download 30 day trial key and throw it to splash screen. Done.

Thanks..I think I knew about all that, It was some time ago though, simply forgot it.

kopperdrake
01-01-2018, 08:05 AM
I contacted support about this last night and they got back to me in less than 20 minutes! I was kinda impressed... :-)
Anyway: it appears to be no issue in general as they use Cleverbridge´s local branch for this and they got me a proper invoice which will allow me to get my VAT tax refund just as I normally get with any local purchase around here. But maybe you can just throw them a quick inquiry that it works the same for you in the UK just to make sure.

Thanks fishhead - I'll do that :thumbsup:

gclayton
01-01-2018, 09:37 AM
Has anyone been able to register the Trial for LW2018?

I copied the serial from the splash screen and logged into my account and entered the serial but get an error when trying to register.

Ok, I tried registering the Trial again this morning and was able to get a license without an error.

rvb
01-01-2018, 10:27 AM
Hi,
Maybe dumb question.
Got the trial, it's licensed, seems though I can't change the saver format, is it that the trial doesn't allow saving 'output', or is there something wrong with my install/license?

thanks,

Reinier

dblincoe
01-01-2018, 11:05 AM
It is noticably faster, however for me the best thing is the speed of "working with it"... The materials, lighting, when used correctly all just line up SO well, it makes going from plain grey mesh to fully finished scene SO quick, its fantastic. No more ages spent tweaking this, that, going back n forth trying to make things look nice. It's just all so predictable and sensible that the amount of time you spend getting to the point where you're ready to hit render is cut down significantly.

This, for instance, took me an hour, start to finish to set up (modeling time not included, t'was a downloaded model, and rendertime obv not included. Also, rendertime will vary, but on my 6 core 3.3 PhenomII, this was 5 mins per frame, with HDR, BF GI, soft traced reflections, real MoBlur and voxels).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku25iCqnPFw

Surfacing, lighting, GI, volumetrics... just spills out wonderfully with very little time needed.

Hi RebelHill. Will you make (or be making) a video tutorial talking about making rendering times efficient as you did in previous version. I am playing with 2018 and have to say I am 1) a little disappointed with render speeds but 2) a little lost as to what to modify to increase speeds. Your previous videos were so helpful!

Snosrap
01-01-2018, 11:09 AM
Rope Editor works in LWM 64bit.

If it doesn't work for you I can check later what version I'm using.

I use the 32bit demo version that I downloaded ages ago. I only use it every other year or so and just to do something quick.

rsfd
01-01-2018, 11:48 AM
Remove the "com.apple.quarantine" extended attribute before unzipping, and it should be fine.
Using Terminal:

xattr -d com.apple.quarantine lightwave_2018_mac_installer_20180101.zip

Hello dvrba,

thank you very much, worked out nicely!

grabiller
01-02-2018, 04:06 AM
Congrats on the Qt integration in the same app! That is a very positive update.

Will the Python scripting engine be able to strike-up GUIs utilizing Qt? I'm still hankering to make a plugin-manager to automate plugin installation and Qt would be a fun way to facilitate that.

LW2015 already used Qt.

While we are on this topic, message to the Lightwave 3D Group:

Unfortunately, LW2018 uses Qt 5. There is a reason why SideFx released Houdini 16.0 both as a Qt5 *and* a Qt4 versions. When we tried to switch from Houdini 15.5 to Houdini 16.0 (with the 'regular' Qt5 version) for our next production, it was horrible. Everything was slower in almost every viewports, including the 3d views. It is only after a few days we realized it was because of Qt5 (vs our Hardware configurations). We switched to Houdini 16.0 Qt4 and oh miracle, everything went back to normal.

Perhaps it could be a good thing, at least for a while, to release or to stick to a Qt4 Lightwave version. You would made a lot of users happier, including myself :).

Thanks for listening.

gar26lw
01-02-2018, 04:17 AM
It´s just as simple as this...lw modeler with 32 bit plugins Is stronger in the sense of what it can do with all those plugins..rather than Without those plugins.

Time to move forward?...sure when they start to work on modeler for real, meanwhile I feel it is motivated to adress that issue.
And as I said in the initial post..I can understand the reasons for them going only 64 bit, and how that can make it easier to develop things and more faster later on.
Anyway...with workarounds in old modeler it is probably tolerable, though for those folks around that are new to Lightwave....the may not be able to use some of those plugins naturally, not even by going back to any older versions since they do not have it.

But if you think modeler 64 bit will be a better modeler than 32 bit? with all it´s plugin, then I question your judgement, if you only look for the future..then fine, but we are not there yet, it may also be very individual to who actually uses 32 bit plugins only, so you are not me..and I am not you.

constructively, as there is not 32 bit modeler anymore, it may be a good Idea to start a thread covering 32 bits plugins only that may be of use within a 64 bit environment, just to cover it all.

quoted for agreement

grabiller
01-02-2018, 04:36 AM
Great News, but we will need production samples!

-----
FFX
-----
Show us some animated sample from FFX please.
Fiber works great on static, but during animation it goes crazy, especially if we have some styling over it.


Perhaps you are confronted to anti-aliasing and reconstruction filter issues ?

FiberFX exemples in the Content directory use totally wrong settings for this - probably to speed up the rendering - which will lead to catastrophic animated rendering and mislead the user: Filter: Gaussian, Radius: 0.5 !? No way.

With this Radius setting part of each strand will be inevitably missed at render time so it will jitter as hell on an animation.

Take the FurryTail.lws exemple, render the animation right out of the box, just disable the GI (useless to demonstrate the issue). Result: Crazyness.

Now render F9 one image and zoom to 400%. Then change the AA settings to: Radius: 3, Filter: LanczosSync Samples: 64 (not sure it was the original setting for this one) and re-render F9. Now compare the two images at 400% and you will see that in the first render entire parts of strands were missed.

MichaelT
01-02-2018, 08:04 AM
It´s just as simple as this...lw modeler with 32 bit plugins Is stronger in the sense of what it can do with all those plugins..rather than Without those plugins.

Time to move forward?...sure when they start to work on modeler for real, meanwhile I feel it is motivated to adress that issue.
And as I said in the initial post..I can understand the reasons for them going only 64 bit, and how that can make it easier to develop things and more faster later on.
Anyway...with workarounds in old modeler it is probably tolerable, though for those folks around that are new to Lightwave....the may not be able to use some of those plugins naturally, not even by going back to any older versions since they do not have it.

But if you think modeler 64 bit will be a better modeler than 32 bit? with all it´s plugin, then I question your judgement, if you only look for the future..then fine, but we are not there yet, it may also be very individual to who actually uses 32 bit plugins only, so you are not me..and I am not you.

constructively, as there is not 32 bit modeler anymore, it may be a good Idea to start a thread covering 32 bits plugins only that may be of use within a 64 bit environment, just to cover it all.

I am quite happy they decided to break with history. It is necessary to do that sometimes in order to move forward. That said... they could perhaps do what FLStudio (a music authoring tool) did, and create a 32->64 bridge interface. So that 32 bit tools can communicate and work with 64bit. That way older tools that don't necessarily need to be updated (due to changes in 2018) could potentially still work. But that would be done at the grace of the people at LWG of course.

lardbros
01-02-2018, 12:45 PM
Perhaps you are confronted to anti-aliasing and reconstruction filter issues ?

FiberFX exemples in the Content directory use totally wrong settings for this - probably to speed up the rendering - which will lead to catastrophic animated rendering and mislead the user: Filter: Gaussian, Radius: 0.5 !? No way.

With this Radius setting part of each strand will be inevitably missed at render time so it will jitter as hell on an animation.

Take the FurryTail.lws exemple, render the animation right out of the box, just disable the GI (useless to demonstrate the issue). Result: Crazyness.

Now render F9 one image and zoom to 400%. Then change the AA settings to: Radius: 3, Filter: LanczosSync Samples: 64 (not sure it was the original setting for this one) and re-render F9. Now compare the two images at 400% and you will see that in the first render entire parts of strands were missed.
When you say filter radius of 3? Do you mean 0.3?
A filter radius if 3 in 2018 would make everything blurry as hell.

grabiller
01-02-2018, 01:03 PM
When you say filter radius of 3? Do you mean 0.3?
A filter radius if 3 in 2018 would make everything blurry as hell.

With Gaussian yes, not with LanczosSync.

139071

prometheus
01-02-2018, 01:49 PM
I am quite happy they decided to break with history. It is necessary to do that sometimes in order to move forward. That said... they could perhaps do what FLStudio (a music authoring tool) did, and create a 32->64 bridge interface. So that 32 bit tools can communicate and work with 64bit. That way older tools that don't necessarily need to be updated (due to changes in 2018) could potentially still work. But that would be done at the grace of the people at LWG of course.

I understand that very well that they needed to break, for me it poses a small inconvenience for some modeling operations, but can be tolerable since I can fall back on my older installations, though I feel sorry for those newbies doesn´t have the older lightwave versions, I think there are quite a lot of 32 bit plugins that are good, not available in 64 bit versions, some seem to really not bother or doesn´t use them it seems, and for newbies..sorry guys for what you do not know about.

But who knows what will show up after some more years of model fixing, for layout there isn´t so much stuff, ogo taiki perhaps that was abandoned..and not available in 64 bit, so totally unusable in lightwave 2018, then again it wouldn´t have matched the new volumetrics I think..maybe if it would have worked with the lecacy volumetric intergrator.

Right now I am a bit sad that dpont rman collection of nodes doesn´t seem to work inside the volumetric primitives node editior, I used the 64 bit node version, they install fine, they show up there, but if you click on any of those textures..they simply do not get added inside the node editor...which rules out deforming and twisting options on other textures by feeding them in to input of any of those rman textures, since they can´t be added, and you can use them as color layer in node editor, at least to get the texture..but within the color layer there´s no input I think, unless there was some expanded color layer plus from dpont himself I think`

O yeah...I think I discussed this with you on another thread.

Gene1
01-02-2018, 04:42 PM
Upgraded - went smooth, Great price - thanks. For this old dude (68) you will need a decent set of documents - not the typical sketchy upgrade pdf's - this appears as a larger much more impactful upgrade than any of the upgrades from 5.0 -2015.3 .

Loaded and rendered sample scenes well but did not like a 2015 scene.

Render times for lw2018 seem much, much longer than with my LW2015.3 for LW2015 scenes but it may be I don't know how to render in 2018 - documents please!!

So all in all - Love the idea - Loved the previews but can't use it out of the box - this program needs to be documented well - Hire Dan Ablan if he's still around. I'll pay 30 buck for a decent set of manuals with example for each common tool and function.

Honestly guys please document this version fully!!!!

I'd love to love it.

lardbros
01-02-2018, 04:50 PM
The documentation is all online... Have you found it yet? It's on the front page of the website too!

Paul_Boland
01-02-2018, 06:10 PM
So is there no PDF manual that ships with the software? Just curious. Or can we download the online manual?

Greenlaw
01-02-2018, 06:22 PM
So is there no PDF manual that ships with the software? Just curious. Or can we download the online manual?
Nah, AFAIK, just the online version. I think the idea is that this version will be regularly updated and always current, unlike a PDF. This seems to be the way software manuals are going; a couple of other programs I use only have online manuals.

Personally, I wish there was an optional PDF version we could download. I don't always have internet access available so, even if it was slightly dated, the PDF would be useful.

Paul_Boland
01-02-2018, 07:22 PM
Thanks. Just read the dedicated thread on this topic, seems a few people want a PDF. I too like PDF manual, good to have a local copy when internet access isn't possible.

kopperdrake
01-03-2018, 05:00 AM
I contacted support about this last night and they got back to me in less than 20 minutes! I was kinda impressed... :-)
Anyway: it appears to be no issue in general as they use Cleverbridge´s local branch for this and they got me a proper invoice which will allow me to get my VAT tax refund just as I normally get with any local purchase around here. But maybe you can just throw them a quick inquiry that it works the same for you in the UK just to make sure.

Just a heads up - when I placed the order the price was in UK Pounds automatically, and when I entered my UK VAT number (GB XXXXXXXXX) it automatically deduced the 20% VAT correctly. There was an issue with using my Visa Debit card and the payment was rejected, but putting it through as a PayPal payment, using the same card, all was okay. No idea why, but there you go.

Thought it might be useful to others from the UK going through the same route :thumbsup:

fishhead
01-03-2018, 06:11 AM
Just a heads up - when I placed the order the price was in UK Pounds automatically, and when I entered my UK VAT number (GB XXXXXXXXX) it automatically deduced the 20% VAT correctly. There was an issue with using my Visa Debit card and the payment was rejected, but putting it through as a PayPal payment, using the same card, all was okay. No idea why, but there you go.

Thought it might be useful to others from the UK going through the same route :thumbsup:

Cool! Glad it worked out :-)

MichaelT
01-03-2018, 07:02 AM
Thanks. Just read the dedicated thread on this topic, seems a few people want a PDF. I too like PDF manual, good to have a local copy when internet access isn't possible.

I made a local pdf copy myself. Took a while :/ but at least I will have something.

csbragg
01-03-2018, 03:02 PM
Nah, AFAIK, just the online version. I think the idea is that this version will be regularly updated and always current, unlike a PDF. This seems to be the way software manuals are going; a couple of other programs I use only have online manuals.

Personally, I wish there was an optional PDF version we could download. I don't always have internet access available so, even if it was slightly dated, the PDF would be useful.

There is. If you click on the three dots on the upper right corner of the online docs and select "export to pdf" you get a pdf of the current documentation.

However, it apparently times out currently and throws a proxy error. Overloaded, maybe?

Scott

lazzaruz
01-03-2018, 04:53 PM
Well in a way i am glad LW 2018 is so bad as I have been making excuses for using this software for way too long. I work on extremely high end movies and TV shows and whenever i mention that I work in lightwave i get laughed at and people say, is that still going? I thought it was dead years ago. I essentially paid the upgrade price for 2018 to get less functionality than I was promised when I paid for LWCore! (I have been using lightwave since version 5) Like most of you I have put off retraining in new software as it takes a lot of time but I feel like I have been left with no option after this release. I hope I have got something wrong here and it's a lot better than I think it is but I genuinely feel like the software can not survive after this. Sad times.....

gar26lw
01-03-2018, 06:27 PM
Well in a way i am glad LW 2018 is so bad as I have been making excuses for using this software for way too long. I work on extremely high end movies and TV shows and whenever i mention that I work in lightwave i get laughed at and people say, is that still going? I thought it was dead years ago. I essentially paid the upgrade price for 2018 to get less functionality than I was promised when I paid for LWCore! (I have been using lightwave since version 5) Like most of you I have put off retraining in new software as it takes a lot of time but I feel like I have been left with no option after this release. I hope I have got something wrong here and it's a lot better than I think it is but I genuinely feel like the software can not survive after this. Sad times.....

can you highlight the areas that you feel are lacking and what are the dealbreakers for you?

Mastoy
01-04-2018, 04:01 AM
Well in a way i am glad LW 2018 is so bad as I have been making excuses for using this software for way too long. I work on extremely high end movies and TV shows and whenever i mention that I work in lightwave i get laughed at and people say, is that still going? I thought it was dead years ago. I essentially paid the upgrade price for 2018 to get less functionality than I was promised when I paid for LWCore! (I have been using lightwave since version 5) Like most of you I have put off retraining in new software as it takes a lot of time but I feel like I have been left with no option after this release. I hope I have got something wrong here and it's a lot better than I think it is but I genuinely feel like the software can not survive after this. Sad times.....

That may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.
Renders are made by artists, not software.
People are laughing at you ? Show them your renders.
They're still laughing ? Make better renders.

dnch
01-04-2018, 07:09 AM
Well in a way i am glad LW 2018 is so bad as I have been making excuses for using this software for way too long. I work on extremely high end movies and TV shows and whenever i mention that I work in lightwave i get laughed at and people say, is that still going? I thought it was dead years ago. I essentially paid the upgrade price for 2018 to get less functionality than I was promised when I paid for LWCore! (I have been using lightwave since version 5) Like most of you I have put off retraining in new software as it takes a lot of time but I feel like I have been left with no option after this release. I hope I have got something wrong here and it's a lot better than I think it is but I genuinely feel like the software can not survive after this. Sad times.....

wait, so why did you buy the upgrade?

raw-m
01-04-2018, 07:38 AM
Hi good LW3dG people! Enjoying the latest :D Need some help with the new Mesh Part/Mesh Info etc nodes. There's nothing in the content folder and not much in the docs. Any tutorial usage would be great, esp in the light of no DP Kit. I'm specifically interested in if it's possible to map parts to particles. If Primitive Type is Volumetric and I click on Edit Nodes I can see a Particle ID on the Input - can't see anything outside of this.

This is my little test using a similar equivalent to DP Kit's Part Move (with a little help from BryPhi77, link in the description!): https://youtu.be/6tCl-AYMV_A


https://youtu.be/6tCl-AYMV_A

Greenlaw
01-04-2018, 07:51 AM
There is. If you click on the three dots on the upper right corner of the online docs and select "export to pdf" you get a pdf of the current documentation.

I tried it out but this feature seems to download only the current section, not the entire documentation.

But thanks for the tip...at least I can grab little bits and pieces if I ever need to. :)

genesis1
01-04-2018, 12:55 PM
Just downloaded 2018 was really excited to try out the trial. So far very dissapointed. I probably need to change some settings but I don't see half the stuff hyped about this last 2 years. Tried rendering a set up from my previous version. Renders at a crawl, about 90 times slower than previous version and vpr shows nothing. Where is all the improvement?? If it's going to be this slow at rendering then it's useless.

THIBAULT
01-04-2018, 01:33 PM
Just downloaded 2018 was really excited to try out the trial. So far very dissapointed. I probably need to change some settings but I don't see half the stuff hyped about this last 2 years. Tried rendering a set up from my previous version. Renders at a crawl, about 90 times slower than previous version and vpr shows nothing. Where is all the improvement?? If it's going to be this slow at rendering then it's useless.


Take the time to test. The philosophy and the settings have changed a lot. I had this reaction too early and by doing tests and patience, I start to be pleasantly surprised by the speed and quality. It's my opinion !

CaptainMarlowe
01-04-2018, 02:32 PM
Take the time to test. The philosophy and the settings have changed a lot. I had this reaction too early and by doing tests and patience, I start to be pleasantly surprised by the speed and quality. It's my opinion !

Yes, I think that trying to mimick old habits with the new renderer will only lead to disappointment. The only way to get really into it is considering it as a whole new beast just the same way one would learn to use an external renderer. RebelHill, Andrew Comb and others has released YT video that greatly help understanding how to get into it.

thomascheng
01-04-2018, 08:52 PM
I only tested the PBR Shader, but it is actually very fast as a CPU renderer. I would take the time to learn the new render engine.

jwiede
01-06-2018, 09:28 AM
Yes, I think that trying to mimick old habits with the new renderer will only lead to disappointment. The only way to get really into it is considering it as a whole new beast just the same way one would learn to use an external renderer. RebelHill, Andrew Comb and others has released YT video that greatly help understanding how to get into it.

If the new renderer requires a completely different mindset and workflow, then the burden is on Newtek to provide customers with the info needed to adopt that new mindset and workflow. While it is good that third-parties have stepped up, that they needed to do so just highlights how inadequate the release content was in those areas. Newtek did not live up to their obligations there.

We were told repeatedly by Newtek they were spending extra time to make sure everything was right for release. Yet, despite those statements (and the time elapsed), this release still feels premature and rushed in (too) many ways.

thomascheng
01-06-2018, 10:11 AM
I think we have the info we need with online documentation. It's not the best in our new youtube age, but it not leaving us with nothing either. Plus there plenty of info on PBR Shader.

Paul_Boland
01-06-2018, 03:35 PM
I’ve upgraded to Lightwave 2018 with some help from my family. Great to have it, now time to explore and get creating!!

gar26lw
01-06-2018, 04:55 PM
Take the time to test. The philosophy and the settings have changed a lot. I had this reaction too early and by doing tests and patience, I start to be pleasantly surprised by the speed and quality. It's my opinion !

can you point out what you leaned or the approach you took?

Snosrap
01-06-2018, 06:41 PM
If the new renderer requires a completely different mindset and workflow, then the burden is on Newtek to provide customers with the info needed to adopt that new mindset and workflow. While it is good that third-parties have stepped up, that they needed to do so just highlights how inadequate the release content was in those areas. Newtek did not live up to their obligations there.

We were told repeatedly by Newtek they were spending extra time to make sure everything was right for release. Yet, despite those statements (and the time elapsed), this release still feels premature and rushed in (too) many ways.

Well I suppose that's what you get when the people in charge are let go. :) IMO the biggest issue with this release is that Rob and Lino aren't on the forums answering questions and assisting. To lose two passionate and knowledgeable LW'ers is a big blow to LW.

aroumani
01-07-2018, 02:11 AM
Just Bought the upgrade, I use lightwave almost on daily basis and Im loving what I see.
It needs a little bet of testing and getting used to, but its much better than having to learn a new 3D software.
By the way Craig Monins has some new videos for LW 2018
check out his youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/RHLW

MichaelT
01-07-2018, 03:13 AM
If the new renderer requires a completely different mindset and workflow, then the burden is on Newtek to provide customers with the info needed to adopt that new mindset and workflow. While it is good that third-parties have stepped up, that they needed to do so just highlights how inadequate the release content was in those areas. Newtek did not live up to their obligations there.

We were told repeatedly by Newtek they were spending extra time to make sure everything was right for release. Yet, despite those statements (and the time elapsed), this release still feels premature and rushed in (too) many ways.

Be that as it may... the protests against there not being a new release was even more damaging. This.. can be handled. The previous storm could not.

Nicolas Jordan
01-08-2018, 03:12 PM
Well in a way i am glad LW 2018 is so bad as I have been making excuses for using this software for way too long. I work on extremely high end movies and TV shows and whenever i mention that I work in lightwave i get laughed at and people say, is that still going? I thought it was dead years ago. I essentially paid the upgrade price for 2018 to get less functionality than I was promised when I paid for LWCore! (I have been using lightwave since version 5) Like most of you I have put off retraining in new software as it takes a lot of time but I feel like I have been left with no option after this release. I hope I have got something wrong here and it's a lot better than I think it is but I genuinely feel like the software can not survive after this. Sad times.....

I know for me the new render engine takes twice as long to render most scenes. I will continue to use 2015 in production for now though and hope 2018 has a few updates that improve things.

- - - Updated - - -


Well in a way i am glad LW 2018 is so bad as I have been making excuses for using this software for way too long. I work on extremely high end movies and TV shows and whenever i mention that I work in lightwave i get laughed at and people say, is that still going? I thought it was dead years ago. I essentially paid the upgrade price for 2018 to get less functionality than I was promised when I paid for LWCore! (I have been using lightwave since version 5) Like most of you I have put off retraining in new software as it takes a lot of time but I feel like I have been left with no option after this release. I hope I have got something wrong here and it's a lot better than I think it is but I genuinely feel like the software can not survive after this. Sad times.....

I know for me the new render engine takes twice as long to render most scenes. I will continue to use 2015 in production for now though and hope 2018 has a few updates that improve things.

jboudreau
01-08-2018, 09:56 PM
I know for me the new render engine takes twice as long to render most scenes. I will continue to use 2015 in production for now though and hope 2018 has a few updates that improve things.

- - - Updated - - -



I know for me the new render engine takes twice as long to render most scenes. I will continue to use 2015 in production for now though and hope 2018 has a few updates that improve things.

Hi, I noticed exactly the same thing until I tried something with one of my renders. Did you have area lights in your test scenes if you try turning off the inverse falloff completely it made a huge difference in my rendering speed. I'm honestly thinking the problem is not with the new rendering engine but it's with some of the lights and it might be the inverse falloff that might be the culprit.

Anyway it's worth a shot and hope it helps you.

Thanks,
Jason

samurai_x
01-09-2018, 12:34 AM
Hi, I noticed exactly the same thing until I tried something with one of my renders. Did you have area lights in your test scenes if you try turning off the inverse falloff completely it made a huge difference in my rendering speed. I'm honestly thinking the problem is not with the new rendering engine but it's with some of the lights and it might be the inverse falloff that might be the culprit.

Anyway it's worth a shot and hope it helps you.

Thanks,
Jason

No Jason, that's a big no no in any render engine.

gar26lw
01-09-2018, 06:52 AM
i find it renders just fine and i can adjust to get acceptable render times. it’s vpr that’s the problem.
it’s way too slow. modo is now significantly faster and tbh, that’s a big problem.

prometheus
01-09-2018, 08:22 AM
i find it renders just fine and i can adjust to get acceptable render times. it’s vpr that’s the problem.
it’s way too slow. modo is now significantly faster and tbh, that’s a big problem.

That´s sort of the impression I get as well, final render seems very fast, the VPR is of annoyance because it is slow, even without radiosity, and cranking down all the settings..well, you got so much noise or artifacts that it´s of now use, I know that blender seem to iterate faster, modo..not sure, so that is a bit of a let down, if VPR could have maybe 3-4 times faster in iteration speed, tolerable..but now I am not sure, guessing octane would be faster..for many cases, not all of course.
Opened 2015 again after some messing with 2018, and boy how fast it really is with vpr and radiosity to compared to 2018.

jboudreau
01-09-2018, 08:34 AM
That´s sort of the impression I get as well, final render seems very fast, the VPR is of annoyance because it is slow, even without radiosity, and cranking down all the settings..well, you got so much noise or artifacts that it´s of now use, I know that blender seem to iterate faster, modo..not sure, so that is a bit of a let down, if VPR could have maybe 3-4 times faster in iteration speed, tolerable..but now I am not sure, guessing octane would be faster..for many cases, not all of course.
Opened 2015 again after some messing with 2018, and boy how fast it really is with vpr and radiosity to compared to 2018.

Well that's strange because I was told by Andrew Comb that VPR was exactly the same as F9 They are the same renderer. So if it takes 3min to render in VPR it will take 3 min to render in a F9 render. OMG! seriously man don't dare compare 2015 - 2018 you will get criticized to no end LOL!!!

gar26lw
01-09-2018, 09:02 AM
that actually illustrates the issue. vpr is the render. it should be the fast preview.

jboudreau
01-09-2018, 09:05 AM
that actually illustrates the issue. vpr is the render. it should be the fast preview.

I couldn't agree more :)

On that note it's great that we don't have the down falls of the previous VPR because at least what you see in VPR is going to be what you see in the final render.
We also have half resolution and draft mode, but I understand what you are saying

Thanks,
Jason

prometheus
01-09-2018, 11:43 AM
Well that's strange because I was told by Andrew Comb that VPR was exactly the same as F9 They are the same renderer. So if it takes 3min to render in VPR it will take 3 min to render in a F9 render. OMG! seriously man don't dare compare 2015 - 2018 you will get criticized to no end LOL!!!

There is a draft mode setting in vpr, and a non draft mode in vpr, it´s impossible for them all to be the same in speed, or if it is, there is no point in having two modes in vpr doing exactly the same render speed, isn´t it?
That is what I ment about a VPR rendering fast and tolerable, using draft, not fine mode in vpr, so I don´t get why you mention it is strange and refer to them being the same renderer and refer to final renders in vpr and final renderer.

That apart, the vpr is unavoidable slower than 2015, wether that is due to how vpr now works or the fact there are new lights, other render setting such as path tracing, or the new materials..that is one thing, it is still not tolerable for me really, I think I ran octane many years ago, and keyshot...rendered way faster than this vpr (in preview windows) on lousy machines and with excellent material renders and lighting.

prometheus
01-09-2018, 11:46 AM
I couldn't agree more :)

On that note it's great that we don't have the down falls of the previous VPR because at least what you see in VPR is going to be what you see in the final render.
We also have half resolution and draft mode, but I understand what you are saying

Thanks,
Jason

Draft mode isn´t something new to lighwave 2018m we had that previously, that is the one that differs vastly from a final render.