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daforum
12-12-2017, 09:20 AM
I've just seen this: https://www.lightwave3d.com/news/article/newtek-announces-latest-release-of-lightwave-3d-2018/

Great news :)

Luc_Feri
12-12-2017, 09:22 AM
It is good news, I can't deny it.

If Rob has been shafted then that is terrible. Best of luck Rob Powers!

gra
12-12-2017, 09:28 AM
but does Layout finally have an updated undo system?

aperezg
12-12-2017, 09:28 AM
Yes, great i'm so happy. I will update all not matter the cost.:dance:

calilifestyle
12-12-2017, 09:31 AM
Yes, great i'm so happy. I will update all not matter the cost.:dance:

shouldn't you already know the price?

GraphXs
12-12-2017, 09:33 AM
Great Read here: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155327-Hello-from-NewTek%85-the-silence-is-over

WOOT!!! Happy New Year!




Hello from NewTek… the silence is over.

Hi Everyone,

You’ve waited a long time for news on LightWave from NewTek and I’m here to give you an update. I’m the VP of Marketing for NewTek, and I have been asked to help bring LightWave 2018 to market.

I was counting it up the other day and realized that I have launched every version of LightWave with the exception of LightWave 11 and 2015, so you can argue I either know what I’m doing… or I’m simply crazy. Maybe both. While I’m busy with all of NewTek’s other business, I’ve always had a soft spot for LightWave, so I’m very happy to be stepping in here.

Here’s the good news. The development team has done an amazing job with the software, and you’ll be happy to know that members of the LightWave 2018 beta team have already started using it to produce some of your favorite prime time shows.

We also have an official ship date and time:

January 1, 2018, 12:01am GMT

I encourage you to read the press release you’ll find here. And to check out the LightWave website that has been updated as of this morning. We have other plans that I’ll be sharing over the next few weeks, but I really don't want to build up any unrealistic expectations. For now, I would rather under promise and over deliver.

I also want you to know, I have read the discussions and completely understand your pain and frustration. Believe me… no company sets out to disappoint their loyal fans. What I find encouraging is that even though in some cases, you are outright mad, at least you still care. I hope you’ll give us the opportunity to earn your trust again.

For me it is important that we focus on the future and not dwell on the past. I realize you may have a lot of questions about why things have unfolded the way they have over the last couple of years, but in all honesty, I do not know. I choose to live in the present and look forward to the future; I hope you will join me there.

I will drop in every now and then, but I won’t necessarily be a regular poster in the forums. Although, I suspect you’ll hear from other members of the LightWave team more regularly.

Here’s to a great 2018… where you will get to use the shiny new LightWave from the very first minute.

Donetta Colboch

Chris S. (Fez)
12-12-2017, 09:40 AM
Looks great! No mention of a new mesh engine or vastly improved performance in Layout. Can someone from Newtek please confirm there is significantly improved performance in 2018? If there is, maybe add it to the marketing material?

rdolishny
12-12-2017, 09:42 AM
$295 upgrade is a very reasonable price and after all these years should be a no brainer for everyone.

I'm encouraged with the note of 'object deformations'. I really want to see some solid improvements in character animation. I know it's an old sub-topic, but it's really the only place where Lightwave really falls down.

hypersuperduper
12-12-2017, 09:44 AM
Looks great! No mention of a new mesh engine or vastly improved performance in Layout. Can someone from Newtek please confirm there is significantly improved performance in 2018? If there is, maybe add it to the marketing material?

that is a curious omission. All of the other blog topics are covered, but the mesh engine stuff and performance benefits are missing.

Sensei
12-12-2017, 09:54 AM
TrueArt's Global Materials http://globalmaterials.trueart.eu,
and TrueType Text http://truetypetext.trueart.eu,
have special versions for LW 2018!

If you're already user, and you're interested please contact me ASAP,
through Contact page at http://www.trueart.eu

Original Global Materials and TrueType Text will stop working with LW 2018.
Because LW 2018 nodes are incompatible with LW v9.x ... LW 2015.3 nodes.
You need to upgrade to the latest version of Global Materials 2018 and TrueType Text 2018.

Other TrueArt plugins (for Modeler) don't need special attention.

samurai_x
12-12-2017, 10:11 AM
So who's upgrading?

shrox
12-12-2017, 10:12 AM
So who's upgrading?

Me.

Chris S. (Fez)
12-12-2017, 10:20 AM
So who's upgrading?

Me.

GandB
12-12-2017, 10:22 AM
Not I (unless they can explain the reason for the blackout....and not just blow us off).

Niko3D
12-12-2017, 10:22 AM
of course yes!

Wireframex
12-12-2017, 10:33 AM
Yesssssssssssss

tyrot
12-12-2017, 10:38 AM
295 ... dude it is SO cheap!

m.d.
12-12-2017, 10:39 AM
I might....depending on the performance of the render engine

For users that use external renders, the feature upgrades list is a lot less attractive.
Basically a modifier stack and some deformers.
For octane users most of that stuff we already had.

I would have rather functioned on core capabilities.....
But we will see when it comes out.

What an underwhelming release though....no feature videos, an apologetic statement about the silence but no explanation, and where is rob?

This release seems like an afterthought, couldn’t have this been announced a month ago?
I am wondering if they abandoned some upgrades at the last moment to squeeze out a release....

No more whining from me.

Andy Webb
12-12-2017, 10:42 AM
I'll have a look and will probably upgrade

samurai_x
12-12-2017, 10:44 AM
Agree pretty underwhelming as its mostly rendering features again. Can't use anything but Redshift nowadays.

I do like the layout camera in Modeler. Finally be able to match plates while modelling in it.

MarcusM
12-12-2017, 10:45 AM
There is no informations about new mesh engine on LW website...

Matt
12-12-2017, 10:50 AM
There is no informations about new mesh engine on LW website...

Layout does benefit from speed increases with meshes

TheDynamo
12-12-2017, 10:53 AM
I'll take a look at it but I've long since moved over to Cinema 4D for my freelance business. It was a pricey jump but after a couple of projects it paid for itself (and X Particles).

I am curious about the new render engine in Lightwave though. The upgrade seems cheaper than buying Octane all by itself which in itself is interesting. The whole "dwelling in the past" bit annoys me though. When someone buys into a software package, they buy into the company. Dealing with past issues by just saying "don't dwell in the past" and not acknowledging or owning up to past issues is immature and insulting. I could never get away with that as a business and I would expect the same with Newtek.

-Dyn

CaptainMarlowe
12-12-2017, 10:55 AM
I'll test the new render engine before upgrading, to evaluate wether I stick to it or take a new path..

prometheus
12-12-2017, 11:04 AM
GREAT...Now we will get a multitude of unknown amount of thread posts, cluttering the forums, saying it´s alive, it´s finally here, and a couple of more posts regarding lightwave 2018, and lightwave next and so on and so on :)
IT´S ALIVE..IT´S ALIVE...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos2MnVxe-c

ConjureBunny
12-12-2017, 11:07 AM
I just wanted to drop in and say, HELL YEAH!

-Chilton

Dan Ritchie
12-12-2017, 11:12 AM
But I lose my quatloos.

SBowie
12-12-2017, 11:24 AM
When someone buys into a software package, they buy into the company. Dealing with past issues by just saying "don't dwell in the past" and not acknowledging or owning up to past issues is immature and insulting. I could never get away with that as a business and I would expect the same with Newtek.I agree with the premise that buying a product is (to some degree) an investment into a company.

And no-one would contend that there haven't been mistakes. Many would point immediately to the Core debacle; let's be honest, it was a mess. It wasn't intended to be, but it certainly turned out that way. Yet it would be untrue to state that NewTek didn't take ownership of those problems. Clear apologies were offered; and those who were affected had the opportunity to obtain a full refund.

Clearly, the last year has likewise tested the patience of LW users. And of course NewTek regrets this (I've apologized once or twice myself in related threads). However it should be a simple matter for someone who is a business owner to imagine the sort of convoluted problems that can tie one's hands when it comes to discussing blame. In a position like that, there might be very finite limits on what can be said, for both legal and ethical reasons.

This would not be "immature" - but simply pragmatic. Certainly it might seem insulting to some, because (regrettably) it does affect people. This does not negate the fact that a business might find it necessary to refrain from commenting. (Ironically, individuals may have the advantage in such matters, since they may not be under the same constraints.) Again, in my experience in such matters, the truth is usually not only unseen, it may well be unseeable due to personal biases.

TheDynamo
12-12-2017, 11:39 AM
I agree with the premise that buying a product is (to some degree) an investment into a company.

And no-one would contend that there haven't been mistakes. Many would point immediately to the Core debacle; let's be honest, it was a mess. It wasn't intended to be, but it certainly turned out that way. Yet it would be untrue to state that NewTek didn't take ownership of those problems. Clear apologies were offered; and those who were affected had the opportunity to obtain a full refund.

Clearly, the last year has likewise tested the patience of LW users. And of course NewTek regrets this (I've apologized once or twice myself in related threads). However it should be a simple matter for someone who is a business owner to imagine the sort of convoluted problems that can tie one's hands when it comes to discussing blame. In a position like that, there might be very finite limits on what can be said, for both legal and ethical reasons.

This would not be "immature" - but simply pragmatic. Certainly it might seem insulting to some, because (regrettably) it does affect people. This does not negate the fact that a business might find it necessary to refrain from commenting. (Ironically, individuals may have the advantage in such matters, since they may not be under the same constraints.) Again, in my experience in such matters, the truth is usually not only unseen, it may well be unseeable due to personal biases.

I would suggest the use of another phrase then for your marketing department. "Don't dwell in the past" has a off-handish way of dismissing past transgressions (perceived and real) and that's where I personally find insult and implied where the immaturity happens.

A simple "We've made mistakes and endeavor to rectify them as soon as possible, our apologies. Please take this message as a first step in the right direction and enjoy our new software" would have had a monumental improvement on that message versus what appears to be an attempt to sweep it under the rug.

Of course I can imagine some of the convoluted mess that goes through the creation of a product as complicated as a 3D software system. However it's not blame that I personally look for but a legitimate response like the one you so kindly gave here. I haven't paid enough attention to past transgressions to get a whole picture aside from back in 2013 where I made the jump to new software that was more in alignment with my motion graphics and product demonstration work. Partially because of the quiet from LW team other than "here's what we're working on" and also partially because several of the people I work with use the same software. It would be great to come back and play with Lightwave but there's a hell of a hill to climb to get there.


- Dyn

Kaptive
12-12-2017, 11:44 AM
Great news. The upgrade price is worth the updates there, easily (circumstance depending I'm sure).
Sorry to hear of Robs departure, but maybe it is time for a shake up... hopefully it'll do all concerned some good.
Regarding the "moving on" statement... if that can of worms was opened up, (i.e. explaining the (no doubt) complex/personal reasons for the silence) it'd be hard to put the lid back on... and it would be detrimental to LWs present and future.
It probably doesn't matter anymore anyway, so better to just let it lie. LW3DG can eat humble pie for a bit until it gets fully back in the game. A cool update here, a roadmap with a few honest progress reports there... It'll work out I'm sure.
So yes, absolutely the right choice. Move on, and let's get this going again! :)

SBowie
12-12-2017, 11:49 AM
I would suggest the use of another phrase then for your marketing department. "Don't dwell in the past" has a off-handish way of dismissing past transgressions (perceived and real) and that's where I personally find insult and implied where the immaturity happens.I know Donetta very well (my first contract work for NewTek nearly 20 years ago now was under her auspices), and I can assure you 1000% she would never have meant it that way, or even written it thus.

If you re-read her post, she wrote "For me it is important that we focus on the future and not dwell on the past". Donetta came into this matter very late in the game, as someone who could bring her considerable skills and indomitable spirit to bear on making this release happen this year. I'm sure she would want her comment to be taken as evidencing her own 'look ahead' outlook, not a directive.


It would be great to come back and play with Lightwave but there's a hell of a hill to climb to get thereGranted, and thank you for your remarks.

pbaroque20
12-12-2017, 11:50 AM
For $295 upgrade price it's a bargain. The rendering features is really the only true selling point of this version. But oh well, the only way forward is improving animation workflows/tools for the next version. Granted I do think the PBR rendering implementation is a must, at least at this current industry standard.

The best well-kept secret so far is if the new geo-engine has been integrated.

TheDynamo
12-12-2017, 11:56 AM
I would suggest the use of another phrase then for your marketing department. "Don't dwell in the past" has a off-handish way of dismissing past transgressions (perceived and real) and that's where I personally find insult and implied where the immaturity happens.

A simple "We've made mistakes and endeavor to rectify them as soon as possible, our apologies. Please take this message as a first step in the right direction and enjoy our new software" would have had a monumental improvement on that message versus what appears to be an attempt to sweep it under the rug.

Of course I can imagine some of the convoluted mess that goes through the creation of a product as complicated as a 3D software system. However it's not blame that I personally look for but a legitimate response like the one you so kindly gave here. I haven't paid enough attention to past transgressions to get a whole picture aside from back in 2013 where I made the jump to new software that was more in alignment with my motion graphics and product demonstration work. Partially because of the quiet from LW team other than "here's what we're working on" and also partially because several of the people I work with use the same software. It would be great to come back and play with Lightwave but there's a hell of a hill to climb to get there.


- Dyn

---- Two more points, one in your favor and one in mine.

1) I realize that I should consume more coffee before engaging in a critique of marketing communication. I do notice in the line above of Donetta's message where she kind of mentions the moving forward phrasing which would have been a great place to end the message. It's the line directly after it that made me do the spit take.

2) When you purchase a heavily involved program like 3D software, the investment into the software and hence the company is exponentially larger than the purchase price when you take the time dedicated to learning how to effectively use that program into account. Whether one likes it or not, when you spend hundreds of hours learning a program you ARE invested in it and the company that makes it. While you don't become an employee of that company, you literally become an evangelist for it just from the sheer amount of time spent learning it.

TheDynamo
12-12-2017, 12:03 PM
I know Donetta very well (my first contract work for NewTek nearly 20 years ago now was under her auspices), and I can assure you 1000% she would never have meant it that way, or even written it thus.

If you re-read her post, she wrote "For me it is important that we focus on the future and not dwell on the past". Donetta came into this matter very late in the game, as someone who could bring her considerable skills and indomitable spirit to bear on making this release happen this year. I'm sure she would want her comment to be taken as evidencing her own 'look ahead' outlook, not a directive.

Granted, and thank you for your remarks.

I loved how you wrote that and I do look forward to seeing what the new version of Lightwave has to offer. You are most welcome, I wish you folks at Newtek a prosperous new year and hope to see plenty of good press releases on the new software.

Norka
12-12-2017, 12:09 PM
I'm very underwhelmed with those features. Much of that is why I have Octane and have enjoyed these features for years.. and with my rig stuffed silly with 980Ti(s), I will likely never, ever use LW renderer, like I haven't in five years now. I still think they should have abandoned the engine and made Octane the official renderer. I am definitely going to upgrade, as I'm sure that various things will be worth the paltry $295. I just would have expected so much more.. something much more revolutionary, after all this time. And this is all coming from one of the few eternally optimistic blokes around these parts. The engine obviously took so much of their time and resources.. and I have zero use for that...

EDIT: Okay, I have calmed down a little. I guess I should be happy that LW is not dead. Whew!.. I'll try to stay optimistic that better things are coming soonish...

SBowie
12-12-2017, 12:13 PM
2) When you purchase a heavily involved program like 3D software, the investment into the software and hence the company is exponentially larger than the purchase price when you take the time dedicated to learning how to effectively use that program into account.That's a very fine point, and not lost on me.

Svenart
12-12-2017, 12:21 PM
Very good news, can´t wait to hear more about what has changed. Maybe I will update this time, still working with lw11 :D

hrgiger
12-12-2017, 12:45 PM
Layout does benefit from speed increases with meshes

That isn't the same thing as a new geo engine though. Is it just an optimization that accounts for the speed increase or was the actual engine for handling geometry in Layout actually replaced? The blog stated the work done was based on the engine used in Chronosculpt. And of course being aware of points, edges and polygons...

samurai_x
12-12-2017, 12:58 PM
The blov doesn't meqn much now that Rob is out.
Probably one of the reasons he posted "ask for a roadmap" is because of they were trying to replace the geo engine but couldn't. He'S probably pissed about that

ristoraven
12-12-2017, 01:04 PM
I'm very underwhelmed with those features. Much of that is why I have Octane and have enjoyed these features for years.. and with my rig stuffed silly with 980Ti(s), I will likely never, ever use LW renderer, like I haven't in five yeras now. I still think they should have abandoned the engine and made Octane the official renderer. I am definitely going to upgrade, as I'm sure that various things will be worth the paltry $295, but looking ahead long term, I might very well be moving to something else (haven't decided which yet) down the road, unless of course we start getting TONS of new/better stuff in the very near future, that makes LW look like something worthy of hanging around for. And this is all coming from one of the few eternally optimistic blokes around these parts. I just would have expected so much more.. something much more revolutionary, after all this time. The engine obviously took so much of their time and resources.. and I have zero use for that...

EDIT: Okay, I have calmed down a little. I guess I should be happy that LW is not dead. Whew!.. I'll try to stay optimistic that better things are coming soonish...

I am also Octane user. I see this upgrade as the last brick I have been missing on my wall: LW volumetrics finally in PBR. That alone is well worth 295$..

SBowie
12-12-2017, 01:07 PM
The blov doesn't meqn much now that Rob is out.
Probably one of the reasons he posted "ask for a roadmap" is because of they were trying to replace the geo engine but couldn't. He'S probably pissed about that

There's a reason why it's NewTek policy not to pre-announce features ... mistatements and misunderstandings follow too often otherwise.

Matt
12-12-2017, 01:13 PM
That isn't the same thing as a new geo engine though. Is it just an optimization that accounts for the speed increase or was the actual engine for handling geometry in Layout actually replaced? The blog stated the work done was based on the engine used in Chronosculpt. And of course being aware of points, edges and polygons...

From the developers mouth:

"The mesh engine back-end in Layout is completely new and based on the hydra mesh implementation."

So yes, the performance benefits in Layout only come from this, no modelling however, Layout needs to be made to aware of a proper modelling context to be done _properly_.

Edit: This is no statement of intent, just going by what has been communicated before.

prometheus
12-12-2017, 01:16 PM
I'm very underwhelmed with those features. Much of that is why I have Octane and have enjoyed these features for years.. and with my rig stuffed silly with 980Ti(s), I will likely never, ever use LW renderer, like I haven't in five years now. I still think they should have abandoned the engine and made Octane the official renderer. I am definitely going to upgrade, as I'm sure that various things will be worth the paltry $295. I just would have expected so much more.. something much more revolutionary, after all this time. And this is all coming from one of the few eternally optimistic blokes around these parts. The engine obviously took so much of their time and resources.. and I have zero use for that...

EDIT: Okay, I have calmed down a little. I guess I should be happy that LW is not dead. Whew!.. I'll try to stay optimistic that better things are coming soonish...

Until you tried it,you never know what you're gonna get.

Dan Ritchie
12-12-2017, 01:26 PM
I think this is a pretty huge update. Bad lighting was always the biggest problem in all of the productions I was involved with, and they would hardly ever let us fix it. So glad they are making the switch to more unbiased rendering. That should go 60% of the way to fixing bad lighting.

I'm all over the node tool being updated. The more improvements there, the better.

New volumetrics, fiber fx, and non-geometry primitives that can be displaced. That's huge!

This is a big, big update. It's render oriented, but it's big, and much needed in that area.

Bernie2Strokes
12-12-2017, 01:29 PM
I'm more relieved than happy. I'll go for the upgrade.

prometheus
12-12-2017, 01:33 PM
The very first feature I will try on the next lightwave... that would be the new volumetrics, who would have thought of that :)

wingzeta
12-12-2017, 01:36 PM
There's a reason why it's NewTek policy not to pre-announce features ... mistatements and misunderstandings follow too often otherwise.

First, glad LW is alive! I am excited for PBR and the new render.

Now as far as announcing features. Lots of other softwares talk about features that are being worked on, but don't promise it for the next release. There is nothing wrong with doing that, and when it is an ongoing dialog it is no problem, and rarely escalates to this stupid level of doom and gloom. Announcing a feature and then saying this feature will be pushed to the next version, or development on feature x is ongoing, is not a huge deal. Going dark was a huge deal and pissed everyone off. I wish NT would learn from this, but I won't hold my breath.

In other words, just come out and be clear "The geo engine did not make it into this release, but development is ongoing" or "The geo engine was cancelled due to technical limitations and we are exploring other options for future releases" or "The geo engine has been implemented in the new version with limitations x, y , and z" or whatever. It really isn't that hard to communicate if you are a bit more transparent overall, because then no one announcement becomes some kind of bomb drop to fear, because there are lots of ongoing announcements.

Anyhow, I appreciate the efforts of the developers, and can't wait to try it out.

wingzeta
12-12-2017, 01:39 PM
From the developers mouth:

"The mesh engine back-end in Layout is completely new and based on the hydra mesh implementation."

So yes, the performance benefits in Layout only come from this, no modelling however, Layout needs to be made to aware of a proper modelling context to be done _properly_.

Edit: This is no statement of intent, just going by what has been communicated before.

Looks like I spoke too soon. Thanks for the relatively straight forward clarification.

tyrot
12-12-2017, 01:40 PM
is upgrade cover for all ex-versions of lightwave ..? 9.6 for example..

Asticles
12-12-2017, 01:47 PM
Does anyone know or believe that there will be a rounding of edges in the shader?

Nicolas Jordan
12-12-2017, 01:51 PM
Does anyone know or believe that there will be a rounding of edges in the shader?

This is one of my biggest questions too.

SBowie
12-12-2017, 01:52 PM
Now as far as announcing features. Lots of other softwares talk about features that are being worked on, but don't promise it for the next release. There is nothing wrong with doing that, and when it is an ongoing dialog it is no problem, and rarely escalates to this stupid level of doom and gloom. Announcing a feature and then saying this feature will be pushed to the next version, or development on feature x is ongoing, is not a huge deal. Going dark was a huge deal and pissed everyone off. I wish NT would learn from this, but I won't hold my breath.Please note that 'going dark' had nothing to do with features, per se. And that's not what I was addressing.

My comment was about discussing features in advance. Talking about features once they are in, tested, and close to shipping happens occasionally. That's not really a roadmap. Talking about things which are some ways off is not a roadmap either - it might be a goal, a vision, a wishlist ... but not a roadmap, really. We could probably benefit from a little more openness on vision, but I confidently predict a roadmap will not happen, sorry.

Asticles
12-12-2017, 01:53 PM
Nicolas Jordan, yes, this is a huge time saver feature.

beverins
12-12-2017, 01:54 PM
Pre-order page up? Or I have to make sure to buy it on New Year's?

Also: Newtek management... you're making your staff work on New Year's? Hmm :twak:

Matt
12-12-2017, 02:12 PM
Does anyone know or believe that there will be a rounding of edges in the shader?

Not in this release, but I have _seen_ one

Nicolas Jordan
12-12-2017, 02:24 PM
Not in this release, but I have _seen_ one

Sounds like a possibility for a future release then. This in my opinion is hugely important feature to have.

Matt
12-12-2017, 02:28 PM
Sounds like a possibility for a future release then. This in my opinion is hugely important feature to have.

Personally, I'm pushing to get it put in ASAP

Ernest
12-12-2017, 02:42 PM
Even if all the new release had was decent hair renders, $295 is a decent price for a good hair rendering plugin. It's cheaper than switching to Octane, just for the hair. I hope the hair renders fast.

Nicolas Jordan
12-12-2017, 03:06 PM
Personally, I'm pushing to get it put in ASAP

Great to hear! Hopefully it makes it into an update!

Chuck
12-12-2017, 03:07 PM
Not I (unless they can explain the reason for the blackout....and not just blow us off).

We're very sorry that you feel that way. However, please understand that there would be in fact nothing productive in hashing those internals in public. NewTek has never done so in the past and has no plans to ever take that approach with respect to internal corporate and personnel issues. The fact of the matter is that there are both legal and ethical responsiblities involved, not to mention just plain decency between human beings who may all be working from the best of intentions and yet come to a completely unsatisfactory pass. You may, on reflection, have times in your work experience that lend understanding.

We all understand and share the frustrations many have with the circumstances to date, and NewTek collectively apologizes.

A new edition of LightWave 3D is being brought to release, and some changes are in progress here that NewTek management will talk about at the proper time, but what will not change is that the 3D Development Team will continue working every day to make the product better, as they have been doing faithfully the entire time.

Norka
12-12-2017, 03:14 PM
Thanks Chuck! Sounds like better days are coming.

Since we now have the attention of devs, et al, can we please know the status of the LW SDK, and if it has been updated in any meaningful way? I ask this, because the SDK has been very limiting and perhaps even problematic for Juanjo in his efforts to make the Octane plug be all that it can be. Please advise asap, since this has been a burning question for quite a while.

jaf
12-12-2017, 03:15 PM
I'm curious if 2018 can be installed side-by-side with 2015 since there me be plugins I use (with 2015) that may not be compatible (in 2018)?

js33
12-12-2017, 03:17 PM
Thanks for chiming in Chuck. No one wants or needs to know any internal personnel details but what we are looking for is more open communication regarding the software like SideFX does with Houdini. Is that too much to ask?

pinkmouse
12-12-2017, 03:21 PM
Seconded.

RebelHill
12-12-2017, 03:22 PM
I'm curious if 2018 can be installed side-by-side with 2015 since there me be plugins I use (with 2015) that may not be compatible (in 2018)?

yep.

gjjackson
12-12-2017, 03:41 PM
Is this the result of social media, so many up in arms and want to stomp out of the room. It's why I seldom come here anymore. How many complainers here are 3D programmers. It's also quite pointless to hash out if This or if That until the time it is posted on the site. THEN, you can check it out and see if it fits your needs or not. Otherwise, just more up in arms and stomping out the room. Grow up people. Newtek has many more customers than those who come here to complain.

Gar
12-12-2017, 03:54 PM
Hello,
The Upgrade looks to be interesting and glad the standard interface is there with the tidying up , by the looks of the images.
I have a BIG CONCERN.
Is the interface scalable for 4K and beyond monitors. LW 2015.3 is to hard to use on 4K as it doesn't scale properly. Please let me US know if there is a option to adjust or fix this?
Its my one concern. If its no good on 4K then there is no point. All my other software is 4K compliant. Lightwave is the last not to be. Hopefully this is fixed.

Gary

hdace
12-12-2017, 04:15 PM
yep.

I'm looking forward to trying this out!

RH-- Will your RHiggit! system still work (Version 1.4 which I still use regularly)? As a developer I assume you know a bit more about 2018 than just what's in the announcement?

Phil
12-12-2017, 04:18 PM
Hello,
The Upgrade looks to be interesting and glad the standard interface is there with the tidying up , by the looks of the images.
I have a BIG CONCERN.
Is the interface scalable for 4K and beyond monitors. LW 2015.3 is to hard to use on 4K as it doesn't scale properly. Please let me US know if there is a option to adjust or fix this?
Its my one concern. If its no good on 4K then there is no point. All my other software is 4K compliant. Lightwave is the last not to be. Hopefully this is fixed.

Gary

No high DPI support in this release, per Matt.

Cageman
12-12-2017, 04:19 PM
Hello,
The Upgrade looks to be interesting and glad the standard interface is there with the tidying up , by the looks of the images.
I have a BIG CONCERN.
Is the interface scalable for 4K and beyond monitors. LW 2015.3 is to hard to use on 4K as it doesn't scale properly. Please let me US know if there is a option to adjust or fix this?
Its my one concern. If its no good on 4K then there is no point. All my other software is 4K compliant. Lightwave is the last not to be. Hopefully this is fixed.

Gary

Hello Gary.

From what I can see on my 2k gaming monitor (this is the one I have at home) (https://www.anandtech.com/show/11787/alienware-announces-aw3418dw-and-aw3418hw-ultrawide-curved-displays), LW2018 scales very well. It is a bit weird to use this monitor for 3D work because of the curvature, but it surely looks great!

138815

Greenlaw
12-12-2017, 04:25 PM
I'm curious if 2018 can be installed side-by-side with 2015 since there me be plugins I use (with 2015) that may not be compatible (in 2018)?

Yes. Installing 2018 is the same as it has been, that is, it uses same user/config/licensing structure. But you'll want to make a separate folder for your third party plugins. Some stuff can be shared between 2015.3 and 2018 (like OD Tools) but a lot of existing plugins will break in 2018.

Cageman
12-12-2017, 04:37 PM
Yes. The installing 2018 is the same as it has been, that is, it uses same user/config/licensing structure. But you'll want to make a separate folder for your third party plugins. Some stuff can be shared between 2015.3 and 2018 (like OD Tools) but a lot of existing plugins will break in 2018.

True!

That said, most L-Scripts that I've used seem to still work as intended in LW2018. Then, again, I havn't tested them all, of course. :)

Chuck
12-12-2017, 04:37 PM
Thanks for chiming in Chuck. No one wants or needs to know any internal personnel details but what we are looking for is more open communication regarding the software like SideFX does with Houdini. Is that too much to ask?

Actually, yes, a lot of folks on this thread and others are asking for the "internal and personnel details" and my post was in reply to one of those, so "No one wants..." isn't the case.



As for "open communication on the software," not mine to determine what's too much to ask, but of course that question has been seen by management.

TheLexx
12-12-2017, 04:41 PM
"Unity 5 support". I very vaguely recall Andrew from Darkside Studio mentioning a request for some sort of direct functionality. With the PBR, I wonder if that means more options for GPU rendering in game engines ?

Luc_Feri
12-12-2017, 04:46 PM
I actually concur with js33.

The internal management structure of LW3DG and affairs should be private and I wouldn't expect it any other way.

If it is at all possible in the future, seeing as road maps can and do change accordingly, some works in progress, not all mind as it is nice to be surprised too, but some WIPS of any new things being worked on would be tremendous and fully appreciated.

A community LW Guru or somebody posting regular tutorials and presence would also be great and I personally would love that honour. ;)

tcoursey
12-12-2017, 04:50 PM
As a user from 7 to 11.6.3 I did not upgrade to the previous versions as there wasn't a big enough reason for me. I am still in this boat a little, but it's def time to upgrade, mainly because I want to help the development move forward. I think many of us wondered if LW was going to continue at all. So whatever I can do to make sure things progress I will. I'm very glad that the decision was made to allow everyone to upgrade for $295. This should help bring an influx of cash and get everyone on board. I'm hoping for many things none the least is MODELER being upgraded to any level in future updates. LWCAD brings so many things to modeler it brings hope that with some real attention LW3DG could do alot as well.

Not everyone will have every thing they wanted in this release but let's all be excited that our favorite program has this announcement rather than the one a few of us had in the back of our minds had.... We regret to inform...lol. My CC is ready for the 1st to get here already mainly so I can support further development as there isn't one thing that stands out other than the render engine (which I've completely switched to Octane for) for me, but I do look forward to seeing all the other things that hopefully will add up. Thanks LW3DG for the release, cheers for many many more in the future!

XswampyX
12-12-2017, 04:54 PM
This is great news! :-D

Gar
12-12-2017, 04:55 PM
Hello Gary.

From what I can see on my 2k gaming monitor (this is the one I have at home) (https://www.anandtech.com/show/11787/alienware-announces-aw3418dw-and-aw3418hw-ultrawide-curved-displays), LW2018 scales very well. It is a bit weird to use this monitor for 3D work because of the curvature, but it surely looks great!

138815

thanks for the pic...but thats 2K not 4K.
Its unbarebly small on 4K.
Someone else posted NO HIGH DPI SUPPORT..

If so , I am done with LIGHTWAVE. Been using since my video toaster 2000.
Newtek is not keeping up with the times. Blender has a brillant SLIDER to scale the interface to any size you like . Works well. Its free.
I love lightwave, but not at the expense of my eyesight squinting at the screen.

NEWTEK. Please comment . I dont' want to rely on rumors.. What is the fix for 4K screens.
This is as large as i can get my fonts and it screws up alot of the dialog boxes..Can't read some options or details.
138816

ElusiveElephant
12-12-2017, 05:00 PM
One thing to mention isn't just the features, but the sheer amount of old, and very old bugs that have been squashed for this release. Yes, not everything has been got to, but many longstanding bugs have been sorted.

Cageman
12-12-2017, 05:05 PM
thanks for the pic...but thats 2K not 4K.
Its unbarebly small on 4K.
Someone else posted NO HIGH DPI SUPPORT..

If so , I am done with LIGHTWAVE. Been using since my video toaster 2000.
Newtek is not keeping up with the times. Blender has a brillant SLIDER to scale the interface to any size you like . Works well. Its free.
I love lightwave, but not at the expense of my eyesight squinting at the screen.

NEWTEK. Please comment . I dont' want to rely on rumors.. What is the fix for 4K screens.
This is as large as i can get my fonts and it screws up alot of the dialog boxes..Can't read some options or details.
138816

I can test this with a 4k screen at work tomorrow, if time permits. :)

Phil
12-12-2017, 05:07 PM
Re. high DPI : http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155080-news-about-lightwave-3d-next&p=1526607&highlight=#post1526607

Cageman
12-12-2017, 05:09 PM
One thing to mention isn't just the features, but the sheer amount of old, and very old bugs that have been squashed for this release. Yes, not everything has been got to, but many longstanding bugs have been sorted.

Yep... and... stability... LW2015 could crash very easily... I can now count the ammount of crashes / week on one hand. And that is with heavy scenes, lots of nodal trickery etc.

Luc_Feri
12-12-2017, 05:17 PM
As far as 4K up scaling goes, could you not change your font size in your .exe override to use a different or bigger font size or font type as a workaround?

Marander
12-12-2017, 05:17 PM
Yep... and... stability... LW2015 could crash very easily... I can now count the ammount of crashes / week on one hand.

Thank you for saying this.

I have the experience with 2015.3.

Do 2015 users still get fixes or do we need to pay for an upgrade to have a stable LW?

Matt
12-12-2017, 05:46 PM
Do 2015 users still get fixes

I don't know of any software company that fixes bugs in _old_ versions once a new version is the focus, dunno how this became a thing, I've _never_ seen it.

Norka
12-12-2017, 06:18 PM
I think LW3DG should take a page from Otoy's playbook... They have had contests that likely paid for themselves many times over in free publicity and new licenses. LW3DG should have a 30 second animation (of anything) contest that must be made with LW2018 and uses at least 4 or more new features, and have VERY generous 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place prices to really make folks want to get in on this... Like 1st place gets a high-end workstation, 2nd gets a 4k monitor, or at least something like 1080Ti Hybrid or a Wacom, etc.... This would all pay for itself, guaranteed, provided you have good press releases to all the cg news sites. If the contest was for a month (maybe Jan 1 thru Jan 31), perhaps folks could even use a 30-day demo.. that could be kinda cool. Just tossin' this out there...

Marander
12-12-2017, 06:39 PM
I don't know of any software company that fixes bugs in _old_ versions once a new version is the focus, dunno how this became a thing, I've _never_ seen it.

I got fixes for the old versions of my (already stable) main 3d application for sure during and after the release of the next anual version.

In my line of business (enterprise / middleware solutions), customers get fixes for several past versions as well as long term support.

js33
12-12-2017, 06:50 PM
Actually, yes, a lot of folks on this thread and others are asking for the "internal and personnel details" and my post was in reply to one of those, so "No one wants..." isn't the case.
I didn't want internal personnel details but it probably developed in relation to the long silence and people were trying to find any scrap of information. Most of us here have a long history with Lightwave and no one wanted to see it disappear.




As for "open communication on the software," not mine to determine what's too much to ask, but of course that question has been seen by management.
That is good. :D
What we need now is a new Lightwave evangelist to carry the torch. :rock:

erikals
12-12-2017, 06:54 PM
edit, ignore this post...

prometheus
12-12-2017, 07:01 PM
Yep... and... stability... LW2015 could crash very easily... I can now count the ammount of crashes / week on one hand. And that is with heavy scenes, lots of nodal trickery etc.

Thanks ..that is encouraging, since my 2015 has been the most unstable lw version ever. ..so I am pleased to hear such good feedback.

gar26lw
12-12-2017, 07:11 PM
Is this the result of social media, so many up in arms and want to stomp out of the room. It's why I seldom come here anymore. How many complainers here are 3D programmers. It's also quite pointless to hash out if This or if That until the time it is posted on the site. THEN, you can check it out and see if it fits your needs or not. Otherwise, just more up in arms and stomping out the room. Grow up people. Newtek has many more customers than those who come here to complain.

I think the people who come here and do complain are the ones that are very keen to see LWG and NT do a good job, make a great product and succeed. They are the ones who are more passionate and more vocal, voicing the opinions that all user have that may not have the time nor the inclination to say anything, choosing instead to just move on to something else instead of piping up.

gar26lw
12-12-2017, 07:15 PM
Yes. Installing 2018 is the same as it has been, that is, it uses same user/config/licensing structure. But you'll want to make a separate folder for your third party plugins. Some stuff can be shared between 2015.3 and 2018 (like OD Tools) but a lot of existing plugins will break in 2018.

Does this include modeler plugins? This could be a deal breaker. What about nodes ?

Julez4001
12-12-2017, 07:17 PM
Chuck, Matt

Will you have a list of what plugins work or do not work in LW 2018

What TV Shows, Movies..(cough) Anime (cough Batman cough) are using the application?

erikals
12-12-2017, 07:44 PM
a lot of existing plugins will break in 2018.

Does this include modeler plugins?
very much doubt that, Modeler is pretty much unchanged. should be fine.
however someone in Beta could answer this.

Gar
12-12-2017, 08:20 PM
I can test this with a 4k screen at work tomorrow, if time permits. :)

That would be fantastic if you could. I currently running Windows 7 pro..but switching the computer to 10pro in a week or so. Windows 10 should have better 4K scaling as well.

thank you
Gary

c.1
12-12-2017, 08:52 PM
So who's upgrading?


Me! Come on $295 us (or $295,000.00 ) a bargoon!

rcallicotte
12-12-2017, 08:55 PM
I'm planning to upgrade.

Snosrap
12-12-2017, 09:10 PM
I don't know of any software company that fixes bugs in _old_ versions once a new version is the focus, dunno how this became a thing, I've _never_ seen it.

Actually NT did this once. I think it was with LW7.5d or some such. But it happened. :) And yes I agree, why bother, lets move forward.

toeknee
12-12-2017, 09:13 PM
Well, I am totally in. I like many others are very relieved LW is not a dead product. I was a huge user and supporter of Softimage and it totally sucked when that tool died. I would feel worse if that happend to LW. I also own and use Octane but I am happy to see what the new LW render engine has to offer. I think I am most excited about the new Volumetric Engine and the UDIM texture support. Those two are huge for me. I really hope IFW2 still works. I use that plugin on everything. I also hope everything from RH will work because I have everything from him exept his new face rigging tool and that is only because I have been too poor recently, however I just got a good new job and will be adding that to my tool set very soon. To Newtek I would like to ask if you could at least keep some dialog open for your customers. I know you may not have an update avalible when we want it but it was really cool when you had Cody doing Lightwave totorials and William as well the new by Lino Grandi. This at lease shows that if you can't deliver the product we know that you are activly supporting the community.

GandB
12-12-2017, 09:29 PM
We're very sorry that you feel that way. However, please understand that there would be in fact nothing productive in hashing those internals in public. NewTek has never done so in the past and has no plans to ever take that approach with respect to internal corporate and personnel issues. The fact of the matter is that there are both legal and ethical responsiblities involved, not to mention just plain decency between human beings who may all be working from the best of intentions and yet come to a completely unsatisfactory pass. You may, on reflection, have times in your work experience that lend understanding.

We all understand and share the frustrations many have with the circumstances to date, and NewTek collectively apologizes.

A new edition of LightWave 3D is being brought to release, and some changes are in progress here that NewTek management will talk about at the proper time, but what will not change is that the 3D Development Team will continue working every day to make the product better, as they have been doing faithfully the entire time.

You're the reason I got on this train, over 12 years ago, Chuck (remember, coming from the defunct TrueSpace camp). I remember having a problem with getting a copy of the demo at the time, I voiced a concern about it, and you responded most kindly. I reciprocated that kindness by upgrading to version 9, and then bringing in a friend who bought a full license. That was the NewTek that I really appreciated. The Community was awesome, and dedicated; and the whole place had a "vibe" to it. I found myself defending LW and NT at most corners of the CG internet.

The last couple of years have seen a reversal of that, for me. It will take some time, and some honest dialogue between NewTek and the remaining user-base (aka: "Wavers"), to build it back to what it once was. You can't do the "going dark" thing again; you just can't. It's infuriating.

However; I appreciate the apology. That IS something.

Congratulations on the release.

Asticles
12-12-2017, 10:29 PM
Not in this release, but I have _seen_ one

Thanks for the answer. I also expect modeler will get most of developer's love in the future. It is really outdated.

Regards

fishhead
12-13-2017, 03:56 AM
Does this include modeler plugins? This could be a deal breaker. What about nodes ?

I do not see much of a problem, we do this for ages: You easily can redirect the path to - if you wishto do so - for every single plugin separetely in the config file.
I/we have a shared networkdrive for all plugins - which holds one specific folder with copies of the respective plugins for every single dot-version of the application. I even have some plugins for 9.xx releases that exist in all plugin folders from v9.3 through 2015.3. They reside happily next to eachother - runs all very smoothly

gar26lw
12-13-2017, 04:01 AM
I do not see much of a problem, we do this for ages: You easily can redirect the path to - if you wishto do so - for every single plugin separetely in the config file.
I/we have a shared networkdrive for all plugins - which holds one specific folder with copies of the respective plugins for every single dot-version of the application. I even have some plugins for 9.xx releases that exist in all plugin folders from v9.3 through 2015.3. They reside happily next to eachother - runs all very smoothly

oh, i was meaning actually still work with 2018

fishhead
12-13-2017, 05:30 AM
Oh, sorry...
I am not the one to answer this, but I suppose most Modeler plugins might stiil be working as Modeler is just - kind of "expanded" but has not really changed under the hood.
Node related issues will probably arise as - the way I understood it - the nodal interfaces have changed to a degree... RH might probably have an answer for you?!? ;-]

gar26lw
12-13-2017, 06:04 AM
yeah i’m wondering if newtonian motion is bust for instance. i use a few of the worley shaders a fair bit. wonder about that.

akademus
12-13-2017, 06:18 AM
Curse you Newtek. I just made a NY resolution to give up in LW and move on. Oh well, here we go again...

hypersuperduper
12-13-2017, 06:39 AM
Chuck, Matt

Will you have a list of what plugins work or do not work in LW 2018

What TV Shows, Movies..(cough) Anime (cough Batman cough) are using the application?
I emailed 3rd Powers and they informed me that their layout plugins should still work. But that they would need to “scrutinize more” after release.

MichaelT
12-13-2017, 07:00 AM
Agree pretty underwhelming as its mostly rendering features again. Can't use anything but Redshift nowadays.

I do like the layout camera in Modeler. Finally be able to match plates while modelling in it.

Ironic considering I left Redshift because I have noise and performance problems with it. Not that it is slow, it most certainly isn't. Just that I find VRay (c4d) faster and cleaner for what I do :/

Norka
12-13-2017, 07:30 AM
I'm still trying to wrap my head around how you went with LW2018... I can find no upside to going with years in name. None... :-/

Since no one is answering here, and Juanjo is not answering over on Octane, I think we need to assume for now that the SDK has not been updated in any meaningful way... :-(


Edit: Just to make sure no one misses it this time:


Has the LightWave SDK been updated in any meaningful way?


In other words: Will Juanjo now, finally, be able to spread his developer wings and take the Octane plug to new heights?

MichaelT
12-13-2017, 07:48 AM
When it comes to the SDK.. please provide meaningful examples. I found the sdk so poor in that regard it stopped me from even trying to learn it any further.

gar26lw
12-13-2017, 07:49 AM
i think it has as stated by oliver

dnch
12-13-2017, 08:13 AM
it would be nice if LW2018 contained some usefull library of hdris, maybe som kitbash models, some good library of surfaces and so on..


by the way, did Oliver announce the price of his tools for 2018? also will his preset tools contain some presets ot it will be supplied empty?

calilifestyle
12-13-2017, 09:46 AM
it would be nice if LW2018 contained some usefull library of hdris, maybe som kitbash models, some good library of surfaces and so on..


by the way, did Oliver announce the price of his tools for 2018? also will his preset tools contain some presets ot it will be supplied empty?

http://origamidigital.com/newtypo/index.php/software.html

Upgrades 59.95, New Licenses 129.95 until January 14.
then 79.95 and 149
Oh Pie menu 29.95 substance reader 19.95

Asticles
12-13-2017, 10:21 AM
SBowie, can we lock or merge the 3 threads about the same subject? Only a suggestion.

Regards.

jperk
12-13-2017, 10:22 AM
I just fainted...

"LIGHTWAVE!!!!!!!!!"

https://media.tenor.co/images/5b067c436afcbe4e45c03084565ba50f/tenor.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/xUySTWcoKuodcWF1N6/giphy.gif

TheLexx
12-13-2017, 10:39 AM
I just fainted...
Why is that ? Just kidding. Welcome back, but unfortunately Surrealist left (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155080-news-about-lightwave-3d-next&p=1526073&viewfull=1#post1526073)the forum a couple of days before LW 2018 announcement. I really hope he comes back. The "I'm going" exchange between he and you was very funny if I can say so. I would love to hear Surrealist's views now. :)

jperk
12-13-2017, 12:25 PM
I graduate from college this Thursday so this announcement REALLY made my week.

I'm back. And I'm ready for 2018!

138839

m.d.
12-13-2017, 12:28 PM
Why not add another $295 to the student loan :)

jperk
12-13-2017, 12:42 PM
Why not add another $295 to the student loan :)

yes taking care of that Jan1st. ;)

Luc_Feri
12-13-2017, 12:52 PM
yes taking care of that Jan1st. ;)

Happy Xmas and New Year in advance. :D

Marander
12-13-2017, 01:07 PM
I'm back. And I'm ready for 2018!

May I ask how your other software purchase (you mentioned some weeks ago) went? Was is it a genuine license after all?

jperk
12-13-2017, 01:20 PM
May I ask how your other software purchase (you mentioned some weeks ago) went? Was is it a genuine license after all?

No it was a scam. Ebay gave me back my money and I reported the user. The seller was from Russia selling pirated copies. It's all good — I'm officially aboard the LW2018 train . Waiting for Jan1.

All aboard!!!

JCG
12-13-2017, 01:23 PM
Before this all started, I said that the most important new feature for me was an update of the internal engines so they could handle and deform lots of polys. If they decided to do that, I definitely will support them on their way, even if the number of flashy new features has to suffer in the meantime.

DuneBoy
12-13-2017, 01:33 PM
I graduate from college this Thursday so this announcement REALLY made my week.

I'm back. And I'm ready for 2018!

138839

Syberia, that's a great game.

jperk
12-13-2017, 01:41 PM
Syberia, that's a great game.

Yes, I've been wanting to play it for the longest time. GOG had a special the other week where they gave it away for free! One of my favorite games is The Longest Journey released in 1999. Syberia is probably the closest game to TLJ.

Wickedpup
12-13-2017, 01:44 PM
Why is that ? Just kidding. Welcome back, but unfortunately Surrealist left (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155080-news-about-lightwave-3d-next&p=1526073&viewfull=1#post1526073)the forum a couple of days before LW 2018 announcement. I really hope he comes back. The "I'm going" exchange between he and you was very funny if I can say so. I would love to hear Surrealist's views now. :)
You can find it here. Probably not the reaction you wanted....but outside this community LW 2018 does not exactly turn heads.....
https://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?415295-What-Killed-Lightwave/page7

Wickedpup
12-13-2017, 01:47 PM
Yes, I've been wanting to play it for the longest time. GOG had a special the other week where they gave it away for free! One of my favorite games is The Longest Journey released in 1999. Syberia is probably the closest game to TLJ.
Think it was a free giveaway on PS3 this month too.....

Marander
12-13-2017, 01:50 PM
No it was a scam. Ebay gave me back my money and I reported the user. The seller was from Russia selling pirated copies. It's all good — I'm officially aboard the LW2018 train . Waiting for Jan1.

All aboard!!!

Glad to hear you got your money back!

Unbelievable that there's atill a business for pirated software nowadays but I was right with my assumption then.

Good luck with your graduation by the way!

jperk
12-13-2017, 02:03 PM
Glad to hear you got your money back!

Unbelievable that there's atill a business for pirated software nowadays but I was right with my assumption then.

Good luck with your graduation by the way!

Thank you!

tcoursey
12-13-2017, 02:09 PM
thanks for the pic...but thats 2K not 4K.
Its unbarebly small on 4K.
Someone else posted NO HIGH DPI SUPPORT..

If so , I am done with LIGHTWAVE. Been using since my video toaster 2000.
Newtek is not keeping up with the times. Blender has a brillant SLIDER to scale the interface to any size you like . Works well. Its free.
I love lightwave, but not at the expense of my eyesight squinting at the screen.

NEWTEK. Please comment . I dont' want to rely on rumors.. What is the fix for 4K screens.
This is as large as i can get my fonts and it screws up alot of the dialog boxes..Can't read some options or details.
138816

Gar, I too have a 4K 43" sony. It's great except my 780 gtx can't keep up with it at 4K so I went down in res to 2k. Even windows didn't have much of a great experience with 4K res. I see your running 7. Does windows have some great 4K display settings to help adjust your viewing experience?!?

I too hope 2018.1 can address some interface enhancements too. I'd love lot's but would deal with Sliding adjustment, snapping panels! at min.

Airwaves
12-13-2017, 02:30 PM
I am thinking of going to the new one but I have been away from these aspects of the forums for so long. Please can someone tell me again what is the difference between the render engine now and the new one?

I guess what are the benefits to the physically based renderer is my question because I think that is the only reason for me to upgrade that I can see for right now.

Dan Ritchie
12-13-2017, 02:39 PM
Hello,
The Upgrade looks to be interesting and glad the standard interface is there with the tidying up , by the looks of the images.
I have a BIG CONCERN.
Is the interface scalable for 4K and beyond monitors. LW 2015.3 is to hard to use on 4K as it doesn't scale properly. Please let me US know if there is a option to adjust or fix this?
Its my one concern. If its no good on 4K then there is no point. All my other software is 4K compliant. Lightwave is the last not to be. Hopefully this is fixed.

Gary

If you are on windows, you can usually get it to render at a different resolution than the display based on your DPI settings. You can alter this behavior via compatibility flags. I am unable to test on 4k, So I am curious what kinds of scaling problems there are.

tcoursey
12-13-2017, 02:47 PM
I am thinking of going to the new one but I have been away from these aspects of the forums for so long. Please can someone tell me again what is the difference between the render engine now and the new one?

I guess what are the benefits to the physically based renderer is my question because I think that is the only reason for me to upgrade that I can see for right now.

I was not in the beta program so someone that was would have to address your question specifically. However I too did not upgrade the last few versions because "there was nothing for me". I have changed my mind on this one as I want to support future development and not get caught up in a Subscription model system. It's my decision to upgrade and I may indeed continue to use 11.6.3, only time will tell.

I'm hoping things will progress and consistently show progress in development. The community has been badly burned and scared and we need continued and consistent communication on the future of our favorite program with updates, timelines and goals!

Airwaves
12-13-2017, 02:51 PM
I hope this next question of mine does not seem stupid but I still use screamernet the native network render in Lightwave and does anybody know if Lightwave 2018 will still be able to use that?

It would be a pain to have to mess with a new render farm network render as I have mine running. I know that is lazy of me but I still like screamernet.

tcoursey
12-13-2017, 02:54 PM
I hope this next question of mine does not seem stupid but I still use screamernet the native network render in Lightwave and does anybody know if Lightwave 2018 will still be able to use that?

It would be a pain to have to mess with a new render farm network render as I have mine running. I know that is lazy of me but I still like screamernet.

No way they removed LWSN.exe screamernet! I use Butterfly even with Octane and it's not something I'll give up..lol. I'm hoping nothing has changed in this department as well.

Matt
12-13-2017, 02:54 PM
I hope this next question of mine does not seem stupid but I still use screamernet the native network render in Lightwave and does anybody know if Lightwave 2018 will still be able to use that?

Yes, lwsn.exe works as it always has

There is a new Network Render Controller, but that's its own animal.

paulg625
12-13-2017, 02:56 PM
I would suggest the use of another phrase then for your marketing department. "Don't dwell in the past" has a off-handish way of dismissing past transgressions (perceived and real) and that's where I personally find insult and implied where the immaturity happens.

A simple "We've made mistakes and endeavor to rectify them as soon as possible, our apologies. Please take this message as a first step in the right direction and enjoy our new software" would have had a monumental improvement on that message versus what appears to be an attempt to sweep it under the rug.

Of course I can imagine some of the convoluted mess that goes through the creation of a product as complicated as a 3D software system. However it's not blame that I personally look for but a legitimate response like the one you so kindly gave here. I haven't paid enough attention to past transgressions to get a whole picture aside from back in 2013 where I made the jump to new software that was more in alignment with my motion graphics and product demonstration work. Partially because of the quiet from LW team other than "here's what we're working on" and also partially because several of the people I work with use the same software. It would be great to come back and play with Lightwave but there's a hell of a hill to climb to get there.


- Dyn

You are right and have been around here and a lightwave user far longer than I have been. But its easy to say what you think they should say or not when your not in the hot seat and under possible duress and not knowing what happened behind the scenes I think when you look at whats not being said it says a lot seems a tender spot and no one knows what to say other than we're sorry and lets move forward. I'm also thinking about the fact Rob hasn't said anything either like thanks so much I enjoyed it sorry I had to move on or they screwed me... nothing so seems somethings happened and I agree we should move on. I look at what NewTek brings in it's other areas and how they do. I'm going to Upgrade loving how Lightwave works and knowing no matter what software you choose you can always find things which don't work or don't work the way you like.

I will say its like stock market analysis you can find the full spectrum of advice from must sell to must buy when it comes to opinions on a matter...

paulg625
12-13-2017, 03:04 PM
We're very sorry that you feel that way. However, please understand that there would be in fact nothing productive in hashing those internals in public. NewTek has never done so in the past and has no plans to ever take that approach with respect to internal corporate and personnel issues. The fact of the matter is that there are both legal and ethical responsiblities involved, not to mention just plain decency between human beings who may all be working from the best of intentions and yet come to a completely unsatisfactory pass. You may, on reflection, have times in your work experience that lend understanding.

We all understand and share the frustrations many have with the circumstances to date, and NewTek collectively apologizes.

A new edition of LightWave 3D is being brought to release, and some changes are in progress here that NewTek management will talk about at the proper time, but what will not change is that the 3D Development Team will continue working every day to make the product better, as they have been doing faithfully the entire time.

Well said and thanks for all the hard work the development team has done.

Gar
12-13-2017, 03:05 PM
Gar, I too have a 4K 43" sony. It's great except my 780 gtx can't keep up with it at 4K so I went down in res to 2k. Even windows didn't have much of a great experience with 4K res. I see your running 7. Does windows have some great 4K display settings to help adjust your viewing experience?!?

I too hope 2018.1 can address some interface enhancements too. I'd love lot's but would deal with Sliding adjustment, snapping panels! at min.

Hello,

I am on windows 7 pro, and went the controal panel, appearance and peronsaliztion and display. Changed setting to 125% and then changed a few font sizes to tweak.
As i have said in my previous posts, all software looks really good, but not lightwave. To small and no scaling of the interface, if you increase the size of the font to much most of the popups, numeric and other panels are pretty much useless.

Hope that helps...let me know if you need any help...Windows 7 isn't as good at scaling as Windows 10. Switching to that next week..New machine build. Was hoping Lightwave caught up..apprantley not.

Gary

Gar
12-13-2017, 03:07 PM
If you are on windows, you can usually get it to render at a different resolution than the display based on your DPI settings. You can alter this behavior via compatibility flags. I am unable to test on 4k, So I am curious what kinds of scaling problems there are.

nothing to do with rendering..its the interface of the program. Buttons and text dont' scale correctly. God forbid you buy a up to date monitor that is 4K and your Lightwave 2018 is till at 10 year old interface resolutions...

Greenlaw
12-13-2017, 03:27 PM
I hope this next question of mine does not seem stupid but I still use screamernet the native network render in Lightwave and does anybody know if Lightwave 2018 will still be able to use that?

LWSN is still in use with LW 2018. They added a new render controller for it simply called (ta-dah!) LightWave Network Render Controller. It pretty much sets itself up and is very easy to use.

The new controller is not a replacement for fully featured controllers like BNR, but it's probably suitable for many single users.

As for BNR, I don't think LW 2018 is BNR-ready yet. I haven't tried yet but I asked Paul about it a month or so ago when he released BNR version 7, and he hadn't tested it with LW 2018 at the time. I believe he's working on it now. I'll ask him again after I set up BNR 7 at home this weekend.

jperk
12-13-2017, 05:12 PM
So LW has PBR support, which means full Substance Painter compatibility — no shortcuts or workarounds?

Also, I hope LW2018 has option to switch viewport orbiting from trackball to turntable, much like how it is in Maya and Blender.

It seems Modeler and Layout are still separate. Can't wait to see the improvements in Modeler!

SBowie
12-13-2017, 06:06 PM
Can't wait to see the improvements in Modeler!And ... they're off! :)

erikals
12-13-2017, 06:28 PM
https://i.imgur.com/o1i0wTJ.gif

jeric_synergy
12-13-2017, 07:01 PM
And ... they're off! :)

:ohmy: You've got their number, Steve.

jperk
12-13-2017, 07:34 PM
I don't get it

SBowie
12-13-2017, 07:41 PM
Modeler was not the main beneficiary of attention this round, or honestly, for quite a few before it. Some are perturbed about that, and have let it be known with noteworthy clarity.

jperk
12-13-2017, 07:42 PM
Oh I see. So 2018 Modeler is still too similar to 2015. Oh well. At least I'll have a commercial version soon.

thomascheng
12-13-2017, 08:47 PM
Get LWCAD 5.5 and you'll be satisfied with Modeler.

Gar
12-13-2017, 08:58 PM
nothing to do with rendering..its the interface of the program. Buttons and text dont' scale correctly. God forbid you buy a up to date monitor that is 4K and your Lightwave 2018 is till at 10 year old interface resolutions...

Studio MAX recognized this problem and fixed it in one year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=Lb7TXBBWRek



Blender has the best solution to this i have seen..they did it for FREE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOhQhRWFwtE


So NEWTEK...3 years and no fix. Is anyone from NEWTEK even reading this site? Can you answer? do you have a timeline for this fix? Is it even in 2018? 2018.1 .2 .3 2019? Or are you waiting for 8K displays..

erikals
12-13-2017, 09:10 PM
no secret LightWave has to catch up at feature ABC, however, we just have to accept it, or wait, or perhaps move on.

i'll wait, misc reasons for this.

jperk
12-13-2017, 09:43 PM
Everyone...it's here. Yet still more complaining.

jeric_synergy
12-13-2017, 11:48 PM
Everyone...it's here. Yet still more complaining.

It is a tradition. Some people know no other way.

Sensei
12-13-2017, 11:53 PM
nothing to do with rendering..its the interface of the program. Buttons and text dont' scale correctly. God forbid you buy a up to date monitor that is 4K and your Lightwave 2018 is till at 10 year old interface resolutions...

Text buttons are far easier to understand and remember what they really mean than image icons..
In apps that have image icons, I am constantly waiting till there is opened bubble help to learn WTF some icon is...

Marander
12-14-2017, 12:18 AM
Get LWCAD 5.5 and you'll be satisfied with Modeler.

It makes Modeler better but still 10+ years behind other solutions.

Then you might need 3rd Powers (basic sculpting, weight painting), OD Tools, Rhiggit etc. and you're still far away from an up-to-date package.

When you're adjusting the geometry while the dynamic simulation is playing in realtime for fine tuning the sim (that's what I'm doing right now), edit parametric objects at a later point, non-destructive Booleans, Text, Splines and modifiers like Fracture, Cage deformer or Bevel (and combine all of them seamlessly), you realize the huge difference in technology.

LWCAD offers full parametric workflow but not within LW. And by the looks LW2018 doesn't have a full object model, just 2 parametric primitives that cannot even be converted into geo.

Maybe I'm wrong about the new architecture, but to me it's not what was promised. A full object object model would allow any type of object as Splines, Particles, Trees, Hair, Cloth, Landscapes, Characters, Ropes, Archviz objects etc in a parametric way. And to be able to convert it into geo of course. The current implementation of the parametric primitives (seems to be a sphere and a plane) and LWCAD doesn't look promising to me.

The new renderer and volumetrics are nice though.

50one
12-14-2017, 12:33 AM
Everyone...it's here. Yet still more complaining.

I'm not surprised given what's going on.
I'm still on the fence, personally I'm going to boycott this release and not upgrade for next couple of months, see what other people think and if there are any patches released.

I do not trust Newtek after killing some products, lack of comms, strange rumours that surround their offices(people leaving etc) and most importantly past dissapointments - to me, that's not a good indicator for the future, anyone can make promises.

I might look again in a year time and see if they are men of their words. At this moment I very highly doubt it.

Marander
12-14-2017, 12:37 AM
Text buttons are far easier to understand and remember what they really mean than image icons..
In apps that have image icons, I am constantly waiting till there is opened bubble help to learn WTF some icon is...

I personally prefer icons, once you know them it's very quick to locate and more space saving. Using shortcuts is better anyway. However personal preference.

But what's the use of text buttons where you only see the first 1 or 2 characters, they're cut off or overlapping in the dialog? If they don't scale on a high res display?

Just have a look at some 2018 dialogs.

I like what Oliver did with the pie menu and wonder why LW3DG didn't come up with a similar solution.

jeric_synergy
12-14-2017, 12:38 AM
The last upgrade was worth it, esp at the low price. Even as a hobbiest I'd upgrade for the piddling amount they're charging.

Marander
12-14-2017, 12:45 AM
I'm not surprised given what's going on.
I'm still on the fence, personally I'm going to boycott this release and not upgrade for next couple of months, see what other people think and if there are any patches released.

I do not trust Newtek after killing some products, lack of comms, strange rumours that surround their offices(people leaving etc) and most importantly past dissapointments - to me, that's not a good indicator for the future, anyone can make promises.

I might look again in a year time and see if they are men of their words. At this moment I very highly doubt it.

Same here. Fact is they already broke promise that current (2015) users can upgrade for $295 as this offer is only valid until March. Sounds very familiar to me.

gar26lw
12-14-2017, 01:00 AM
It is a tradition. Some people know no other way.

I don't think people are complaining; they are pointing out the obvious.

dnch
12-14-2017, 04:09 AM
edit: nvm, i read that post incorectly.. this list is list of missing features (or features not mentioned)..

fablefox
12-14-2017, 04:55 AM
I don't know of any software company that fixes bugs in _old_ versions once a new version is the focus, dunno how this became a thing, I've _never_ seen it.

I don't know if this has been answered, but there are companies that have 2 track app - one always updating, and one for stability (called LTS - Long Term Support). Ubuntu and Oracle Database are two that I know of. The rules (not necessarily related to two software I mentioned) is that they back ported bug fixes, but not new features.

Now I remember, it's Pure Basic (http://www.purebasic.com/news.php). I tend to use it and AutoIt to create simple tools and utilities.

fablefox
12-14-2017, 05:05 AM
Studio MAX recognized this problem and fixed it in one year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=Lb7TXBBWRek


Blender has the best solution to this i have seen..they did it for FREE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOhQhRWFwtE

So NEWTEK...3 years and no fix. Is anyone from NEWTEK even reading this site? Can you answer? do you have a timeline for this fix? Is it even in 2018? 2018.1 .2 .3 2019? Or are you waiting for 8K displays..

Only to those who didn't "pay" for it.

Some of us does in one way or another.

https://developer.blender.org/p/fablefox/

Marander
12-14-2017, 05:20 AM
I don't know if this has been answered, but there are companies that have 2 track app - one always updating, and one for stability (called LTS - Long Term Support). Ubuntu and Oracle Database are two that I know of. The rules (not necessarily related to two software I mentioned) is that they back ported bug fixes, but not new features.

Now I remember, it's Pure Basic (http://www.purebasic.com/news.php). I tend to use it and AutoIt to create simple tools and utilities.

There are lots of software companies doing this. I work for one that releases updates for several past versions of many different applications years back and offers long term support.

Quote Matt: "I don't know of any software company that fixes bugs in _old_ versions once a new version is the focus, dunno how this became a thing, I've _never_ seen it."

This statement shows that LW3DG seems to operate in their own little world without much perception what's going on in the software business.

Chris S. (Fez)
12-14-2017, 05:24 AM
Max scaling did not really work until a 2018 point release. And it still has issues. Affinity and Adobe work great.

50one
12-14-2017, 05:41 AM
Max scaling did not really work until a 2018 point release. And it still has issues. Affinity and Adobe work great.


Any of you guys ever used music tools / VSTs plugins :D ?

MichaelT
12-14-2017, 06:00 AM
The thing is, all of these modeling requests have been asked for now for years. And modeler remains largely unchanged except for some new tools here and there added along the way. And new tools largely dont address the fundamental shortcomings of Modeler.

But to humor you here is not an exhaustive list of things that modeler lacks.

1. Robust catmull clark subdivision. Implemented in version 9 and still not fixed.
2. Proper edge support. A lot of things dont see edges in modeler. Try selecting an edge in uv space or edge beveling 3 sides of the top of a box. Doesnt work.
3. Background constraints. Sure we have a few soecific tools for this but not a background constraint system.
4. Interactive falloffs.
5. Local and element action centers. Ability to affect multiple object\selections around their own local center at once. Or ability to use an edge or poly or point as an action center. Currently we have 1 tool that does this.
4. Bigger range of fall off types and ability to combine multiple falloffs.
5. Advanced opengl with support for environment lighting, shadows, AA, ambient occlusion, transparencies, reflections etc. ..
5. Smoothing groups and vertex tools.
6. Ability to control layer display types to any display type.
7. Workplane.
8. Uv toolset that has tools for straightening, relaxing, texel density, packing, stitching, tear offs, distortion display
9. Retoplogy (which would be associated with background constraints)
10. Procedural modeling stack for animatable modeling tools and non destructive operations including boolean workflows.
11. Deformer stack for layering deformer types.
12. mesh clean up tools.
13. Proper snapping
14. RayGL or preview rendering.
15. Model instances(adjust base mesh, instances update)
16. At least simple sculpting for mesh and guide manipulation
17. Background items(not just viewport images)
18. Ability to lock layers from editing.
19. Static Meshes.
20. Auto fill for gaps in geometry.
21. Uv slip.
22. Tool handles.
23. Consolidating redundant tools.
24. Rounded edge shader(which i would argue is a modeling tool as it saves you from microbeveling objects)
25. Edge rounding for bevel tools (consolidation)
26. Pie menus
27. Updated fbx.

For these thinga and more are the reason i use Modo for modeling. Use whats out there already, blender, c4d, whatever. No sense waiting for nt to modernize modeling when there are solutions out there now

Great :) Just so you (and others) understand. I am being serious about having a list. Because I've seen these discussions many times.. but very often its just words.. and sometimes someone brings a few of these out into the open. Which is why I think we really should collect everything, and keep it in one place. We might need SBowies help to do that though, as I don't think we can sticky a post. Let a lone edit it afterwards. The goal is simple. Have a list that everyone can reflect upon (including LWG) so to build a clear picture about what is really most wanted. Get some sort of priority going on, so actual work can be done to do something about those points. I'm realistic too, ultimately it is up to LWG to care or dismiss (like any other company) but having an ordered discussion can (or at least I hope so) help get things done.

Also, I have Blender, C4D, Modo, Houdini, 3DCoat, ZBrush, Marmoset, Unity, UE4, LW, Terragen, WorldBuilder, WorldMachine (+Geoglyph) Marvelous designer etc.. (won't go through all) and I do use all of them. I'll use whatever tool I need to get things done as easy, and fast as possible. I'm not an expert in any particular one, but that isn't my goal either. Sometimes I just have a tool, because people I do things with, also have them. So what I'm saying is that I'm no stranger to using many tools. That also means I know the good and the bad of most of them too :)

gar26lw
12-14-2017, 06:06 AM
There are lots of software companies doing this. I work for one that releases updates for several past versions of many different applications years back and offers long term support.

Quote Matt: "I don't know of any software company that fixes bugs in _old_ versions once a new version is the focus, dunno how this became a thing, I've _never_ seen it."

This statement shows that LW3DG seems to operate in their own little world without much perception what's going on in the software business.

adobe does updates for older

MichaelT
12-14-2017, 06:16 AM
adobe does updates for older

Only in case of serious security issues AFAIK. But most companies do that. I think LWG would do that too, if it is serious enough.

Wickedpup
12-14-2017, 06:26 AM
Same here. Fact is they already broke promise that current (2015) users can upgrade for $295 as this offer is only valid until March. Sounds very familiar to me.
I wonder about the Core discount? Since everyone is upgrading at the same price it isn't worth much. So come March we're all in the same boat? In that case yet another broken promise.....

gerry_g
12-14-2017, 06:30 AM
"22. Tool handles."

Good, Modo's worst problem is tool handles for everything whether they are needed or not, and save me the explanation about how you can turn them off.

gar26lw
12-14-2017, 06:33 AM
I wonder about the Core discount? Since everyone is upgrading at the same price it isn't worth much. So come March we're all in the same boat? In that case yet another broken promise.....

yeah that is a good point, do those who stuck by through core and all the times of silence get anything? does pretty much break the core deal that was set afterwards of cheaper upgrades as a way of thanks for putting up with it all.

MichaelT
12-14-2017, 06:37 AM
yeah that is a good point, do those who stuck by through core and all the times of silence get anything? does pretty much break the core deal that was set afterwards of cheaper upgrades as a way of thanks for putting up with it all.

I would suggest that anything related to agreements etc.. are brought up with support :) I'm sure they can help if there are those of you who should have some other kind of discount etc.., unless they already are aware of course.

jperk
12-14-2017, 06:48 AM
Ya'll old time legends are too much. I am pretty stoked about about LW2018. I toyed around with v.2015 and really enjoyed LW's interface despite a few hiccups here and there. I did start a female character model that I never got around to finishing due to school. Guess I'll be finishing it in v.2018! I was hoping v.2018 would breathe new life into the forums, especially 2.5 yrs of hiatus.

V.2018's focus on layout/rendering/lighting is all good with me! LW is still a full fledged 3D Animation package even if some aspects have remained unchanged. I'm especially intrigued that v.2018 will play nice with Unity3D and Zbrush (via Goz). I can't wait to bring in my Zbrush models into LW's Layout for further renderings, animation, stage set ups, etc. Also, I hope PBR support means full compatibility with Substance Painter. If that's the case I believe Zbrush, SubstancePainter, and Lightwave will be a nice little trio.

SBowie
12-14-2017, 06:49 AM
Fact is they already broke promise that current (2015) users can upgrade for $295 as this offer is only valid until March.This has been stated once or twice, but isn't quite how I remember things, and it seems to me that the limited time special has precedent. I could easily be wrong, however.

Can you point to something that substantiates your "fact" that it has ever been stated that 2015 users would be able to avail themselves of a $295 upgrade offer and that this offer would be extended indefinitely? Thanks.

hrgiger
12-14-2017, 06:52 AM
It was said previously that as long as you stay current, the price would be 295. Im at work and only on my phone so hard to search but it was stated.

It was also said that core users with their discount offer would get some kind of special promotion moving forward

jperk
12-14-2017, 06:53 AM
It was said previously that as long as you stay current, the price would be 295. Im at work and only on my phone so hard to search but it was stated.

http://www.cgchannel.com/2015/09/newtek-announces-new-lightwave-pricing/

Newtek actually changed promise for the better. Previously, users of LW below v.2015 would of had to pay $795 for the upgrade. However, now "registered owners of any previous version of LightWave 3D can upgrade to LightWave 2018 for $295USD."

Let's try to look on the brighter side of things. NewTek is doing the right thing.

MichaelT
12-14-2017, 06:57 AM
This has been stated once or twice, but isn't quite how I remember things, and it seems to me that the limited time special has precedent. I could easily be wrong, however.

Can you point to something that substantiates your "fact" that it has ever been stated that 2015 users would be able to avail themselves of a $295 upgrade offer and that this offer would be extended indefinitely? Thanks.

I think they thinking of this one: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1445902&viewfull=1#post1445902 (But I don't know.. that post even states the new (back then) pricing model is upcoming. So it wasn't really set in stone then. But I have to admit.. that did sound to me that previous owners didn't have a time limit.)

EDIT: @Jperk.. you beat me to it :) And no... it rewards users staying current. So that means only previous version owners get the $295 deal. It says so right there :)

SBowie
12-14-2017, 07:04 AM
There are lots of software companies doing this. I work for one that releases updates for several past versions of many different applications years back and offers long term support.So do I. From time to time, we release updates for long past versions as well - typically when some 'environmental' change (e.g., an OS or nVidia driver update) breaks something critical that was in the old version. Examples of lesser bugs being addressed in outdated versions are much, much rarer - here or elsewhere.

It is almost but not entirely unheard of for new features to be ported back to old versions ... largely because this would often require heroic measures that simply cannot be justified. Any software company that attempted to keep all old versions on par feature-wise would obviously soon be out of business, since there would be no reason to upgrade. Viewed form a different perspective, special upgrade pricing is the way developers mitigate this largely unavoidable state of affairs.

jperk
12-14-2017, 07:06 AM
EDIT: @Jperk.. you beat me to it :) And no... it rewards users staying current. So that means only previous version owners get the $295 deal. It says so right there :)

The cgchannel article is outdated. I'm going by this; https://www.lightwave3d.com/news/article/newtek-announces-latest-release-of-lightwave-3d-2018/


Pricing and Availability
LightWave 2018 for Windows and Mac OS will be available for sale on January 1, 2018 at 12:01am GMT. LightWave 2018 will be $995USD. Registered owners of any previous version of LightWave 3D can upgrade to LightWave 2018 for $295USD through March 31, 2018. Educational pricing is also available. Visit www.lightwave3d.com/buy-lightwave/ to purchase or locate an authorized LightWave reseller.

Download a no-cost 30-day full-feature trial of LightWave 2018 on January 1st, 12:01AM GMT at www.lightwave3d.com/try_lightwave/

SBowie
12-14-2017, 07:07 AM
Great :) Just so you (and others) understand. I am being serious about having a list. Because I've seen these discussions many times.. but very often its just words.. and sometimes someone brings a few of these out into the open. Which is why I think we really should collect everything, and keep it in one place.Done: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155351-LW-2018-Feature-requests

MichaelT
12-14-2017, 07:08 AM
Done: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155351-LW-2018-Feature-requests

Aswesome :) Many thanks!

TheLexx
12-14-2017, 07:11 AM
Also, I hope PBR support means full compatibility with Substance Painter. If that's the case I believe Zbrush, SubstancePainter, and Lightwave will be a nice little trio.I'm not sure there is direct compatibility with native Substance files (otherwise surely it would have been specifically stated and flashing in neon :D !) but someone posted this video (https://vimeo.com/247086500) about a plugin that reads Substance files for LW2018, so it seems becoming more friendly.

jperk
12-14-2017, 07:12 AM
That's reassuring :D

MichaelT
12-14-2017, 07:18 AM
Its a plugin though.. I'd think it would be better if LW had that included natively. Or it just ends up being yet another plugin to have.

hrgiger
12-14-2017, 07:21 AM
Personally i think the 295 promtional price is more than reasonable. Just stating what was said and what some users will try to hold NT to.

MichaelT
12-14-2017, 07:23 AM
I will upgrade on the very day it comes out :)

SBowie
12-14-2017, 07:26 AM
I wonder about the Core discount? Since everyone is upgrading at the same price it isn't worth much. So come March we're all in the same boat? In that case yet another broken promise.....Your statement is logically and factually incorrect.

Any outstanding Core promise that has not yet run out the clock remains 100% valid as of this moment. It is true that the changing prices have devalued whatever remains of those commitments, but 1) they did confer some tangible benefit from the outset, 2) they were honored, and 3) they will be honored until they expire. Characterizing this as a "broken promise" is quite a stretch.

Beyond this, as I have stated in the past, and know for certain, and as many here can attest from personal knowledge - if someone feels they've been treated unfairly in any exchange with NewTek, the matter is often resolved satisfactorily by direct discussion with Sales. I would encourage you to take that step if you are sincere about this.

jperk
12-14-2017, 07:26 AM
I will upgrade on the very day it comes out :)

ditto :beerchug:

SBowie
12-14-2017, 07:28 AM
It was said previously that as long as you stay current, the price would be 295. Im at work and only on my phone so hard to search but it was stated.I can wait. :)

SBowie
12-14-2017, 07:36 AM
But I have to admit.. that did sound to me that previous owners didn't have a time limit.)I can't say I read it that way. It says they will be able to upgrade for $295 - which they are. It doesn't hint one way or the other about whether there will be a time limit on that offer. In fact, the same page provides a precedent for time limited upgrade promos, though not explicitly stating this would always be the case in future.

CaptainMarlowe
12-14-2017, 07:40 AM
I will upgrade on the very day it comes out :)

Not me. Because on this very day, I’ll be enjoying our family house in the forest with a very low band internet. But as soon as I’m back, I’ll upgarde and buy OD-Tools alongside. Would have added piemenu and substance reader too, but these two ones will wait until a few weeks more. :D

Wickedpup
12-14-2017, 07:46 AM
Your statement is logically and factually incorrect.

Any outstanding Core promise that has not yet run out the clock remains 100% valid as of this moment. It is true that the changing prices have devalued whatever remains of those commitments, but 1) they did confer some tangible benefit from the outset, 2) they were honored, and 3) they will be honored until they expire. Characterizing this as a "broken promise" is quite a stretch.

I think the deal was buy in before 11 and you get the discount on 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15...not shure I remember correctly in the first release but it has generally been a $100 discount..the question is if there is one now, and if not what happens if/when the upgrade price goes up in March?....but I have contacted support so let us await their answer.

jperk
12-14-2017, 08:04 AM
I think it's perfectly clear in the lw2018 article/ press release where NewTek stands on the upgrade deal.

SBowie
12-14-2017, 08:08 AM
I think the deal was buy in before 11 and you get the discount on 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15....but I have contacted support so let us await their answer.My recollection was that you'd get a locked in price for the next 5 major releases maybe that's the same thing you're saying?) I've not been counting, so I'm not really sure where we stand on this.

kopperdrake
12-14-2017, 08:26 AM
My recollection was that you'd get a locked in price for the next 5 major releases.

That's also my memory - five major releases at a locked-in price. Also in my memory is the $295 price tag, so my memory is quite happy that I personally am not getting stiffed, but I'm very happy for everyone else to also get the $295 price tag. We need more users, and that price tag can only help.

SBowie
12-14-2017, 08:32 AM
That's also my memory - five major releases at a locked-in price. Also in my memory is the $295 price tag, so my memory is quite happy that I personally am not getting stiffed, but I'm very happy for everyone else to also get the $295 price tag. We need more users, and that price tag can only help.I think it was $295 for charter members, $395 for non-charter ... so the latter are getting a break, along with everyone else. That's the glass-half-full view, mind you. Some might feel like they've lost something, an advantage they were given over other users as incentive. Speaking only personally, I wouldn't be unhappy if there were some way to continue to provide some sort of enhanced benefit to charter members until the term of the deal expired, but those sort of things (incentives) lie in the province of sales/marketing management, not mere forum moderators. ;)

Wickedpup
12-14-2017, 08:36 AM
My recollection was that you'd get a locked in price for the next 5 major releases maybe that's the same thing you're saying?) I've not been counting, so I'm not really sure where we stand on this.
LOL, me neither......think 11 was the first of 5.....so that makes this the third?

Dan Ritchie
12-14-2017, 08:48 AM
I'm just thinking about the insane amount of work it must have been to get this one out. It's one thing to tack on new features. It's a whole other universe to change fundamental features. I'm guessing it's the biggest course correction since version 6. We don't get every last feature we want, but it's easy to tell they trying to get it on track. We probably won't see half of the work they did to it for a few versions yet to come.

I had a similar experience where I spent a year mostly on API, and we had maybe 4 new features on top of that. Users were put off that it seemed like a small update, because having a bullet point like "New API" doesn't do much for users, but it changes the way we make software, and in the next several minor releases, those new API features started to bleed through.

hrgiger
12-14-2017, 09:04 AM
Charter was 395, non charter was 495. So we as charter members are getting a discount of $100 on the price for 2018 but then non charter are getting a $200 discount. So really NT is thanking new or non loyal members more than charter. The locked in price was intended to protect loyal users from price increases in the future. If everyone else is getting the same price as charter members, there is no benefit being given.

jperk
12-14-2017, 09:06 AM
$295 for everyone = win win.

hypersuperduper
12-14-2017, 09:08 AM
Someone getting as much as me does not mean I am getting less.

hrgiger
12-14-2017, 09:09 AM
$295 for everyone = win win.

Sure you get to come in as a new user for 295. Some of the rest of us endured a lot and to entice us to stay through that, we were given a benefit. One that no longer seems valid. Its a win for nt also since they only had to thank us for our loyalty for 2 versions instead of the originally promised 5.

Wickedpup
12-14-2017, 09:11 AM
$295 for everyone = win win.

So the mentality is "as long as it doesn´t affect me I´m good with it"? Yeah....well, don´t come begging for my support should sh!t happen to you....and trust me! Sh!t happens!

hrgiger
12-14-2017, 09:15 AM
The funny thing is, i dont care about the money, 295 is dirt cheap and i have no issue with the price. I am just irritated that NT cant seem to stick with any plan and that includes how development has seemingly roamed aimlessly over the years

Wickedpup
12-14-2017, 09:20 AM
Charter was 395, non charter was 495. So we as charter members are getting a discount of $100 on the price for 2018 but then non charter are getting a $200 discount. So really NT is thanking new or non loyal members more than charter. The locked in price was intended to protect loyal users from price increases in the future. If everyone else is getting the same price as charter members, there is no benefit being given.
Not only that, but considering they basically have levelled out any differences between upgrades, with the March deadline I would say a price increase is next and then what? Upgrade prices are $495 (or more) and charters are back up at $395? Or do you think the HC discount is effectively dead? Take a pick......I have one prediction.

tyrot
12-14-2017, 09:22 AM
295 for everyone! :)

jeric_synergy
12-14-2017, 09:23 AM
So the mentality is "as long as it doesn´t affect me I´m good with it"? Yeah....well, don´t come begging for my support should sh!t happen to you....and trust me! Sh!t happens!
That mentality is quite popular, here in the U.S.A.

hrgiger
12-14-2017, 09:37 AM
Not only that, but considering they basically have levelled out any differences between upgrades, with the March deadline I would say a price increase is next and then what? Upgrade prices are $495 (or more) and charters are back up at $395? Or do you think the HC discount is effectively dead? Take a pick......I have one prediction.

To be honest, i think they should raise the price. Lw is too cheap. You cant expect LW to grow on 295 from users every 2 or 3 years or however often they plan on updating. Maybe then we will see a proper core discount and this 295 is just a promotion. After all, there is no such thing has a promise from NT. They have made it clear over the years that things are always subject to change.

DogBoy
12-14-2017, 09:44 AM
To be honest, i think they should raise the price. Lw is too cheap. You cant expect LW to grow on 295 from users every 2 or 3 years or however often they plan on updating. Maybe then we will see a proper core discount and this 295 is just a promotion. After all, there is no such thing has a promise from NT. They have made it clear over the years that things are always subject to change.

So, to be clear here: you think everyone else should pay more, but you shouldn't. That's really big of you :D

SBowie
12-14-2017, 09:46 AM
After all, there is no such thing has a promise from NT. They have made it clear over the years that things are always subject to change.I can think of maybe one time when a promise was breached, and full compensation was freely provided on demand. In this case, as has been pointed out, pricing changes over time have slightly devalued the benefit of the promise - but the promise itself has been honored.

This said, I agree that it must be hard to sustain development based on such low pricing. I could see that changing again going forward, but that decision would certainly have it's own considerations.

hypersuperduper
12-14-2017, 09:47 AM
Others must suffer for me to be happy.

hrgiger
12-14-2017, 09:49 AM
So, to be clear here: you think everyone else should pay more, but you shouldn't. That's really big of you :D

No but i can explain it again for those who dont appear to have the patience for reading. I think everyone should pay more but i also think Nt should honor what they guaranteed users who did not ask for a refund for LW 10. Id be fine with them making it $395 for the promotion for everyone which would be in line with the locked in pricing.

jperk
12-14-2017, 09:57 AM
So the mentality is "as long as it doesn´t affect me I´m good with it"? Yeah....well, don´t come begging for my support should sh!t happen to you....and trust me! Sh!t happens!

Good grief. First you all lose it over the $295 promo deal and now you guys are complaining that the price should be higher? I don't get it.

hypersuperduper
12-14-2017, 09:58 AM
You keep saying the same thing and all we are hearing is that you are upset that newer users, who lets be fair have had to put up with a lot of crap too, should pay more. It seems petty.

SBowie
12-14-2017, 09:59 AM
Id be fine with them making it $395 for the promotion for everyone which would be in line with the locked in pricing.Bit late for that, mate. Cat, bag, etc.

tyrot
12-14-2017, 10:03 AM
bash lightwave for everything and ask NT raise the price .. dude you are an enemy .. :)

jperk
12-14-2017, 10:04 AM
$295 fair and square, even-stevens.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/f4c043fa8adc56eb5a3d40371d818833/tumblr_mn7wn1a7TP1rggz96o2_500.gif

Wickedpup
12-14-2017, 10:19 AM
No but i can explain it again for those who dont appear to have the patience for reading. I think everyone should pay more but i also think Nt should honor what they guaranteed users who did not ask for a refund for LW 10. Id be fine with them making it $395 for the promotion for everyone which would be in line with the locked in pricing.

Yeah, for me it's not about the money. It is a matter of principle. Some people her might have to look up that word :rolleyes: This company want to earn our trust again. Yet, instead of honouring their previous commitment they try to buy me off with a "get something cheaper today, pay extra tomorrow" deal. How about trying to learn to keep a promise first? How about this? They can keep me on the charter discount of $395 for 5 releases as they guaranteed....then they can do whatever price increase they want to in March. I get what was promised, I get to support them with an additional $100 and they get some added revenue.

jperk
12-14-2017, 10:23 AM
Some people her might have to look up that word :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gJXbwhggFY

kopperdrake
12-14-2017, 10:31 AM
I think it was $295 for charter members, $395 for non-charter ... so the latter are getting a break, along with everyone else. That's the glass-half-full view, mind you. Some might feel like they've lost something, an advantage they were given over other users as incentive. Speaking only personally, I wouldn't be unhappy if there were some way to continue to provide some sort of enhanced benefit to charter members until the term of the deal expired, but those sort of things (incentives) lie in the province of sales/marketing management, not mere forum moderators. ;)

Reading HRGiger's answer, in that case, as I've a seat of both, I've just saved $300. I'm not the sort to begrudge others a discount, especially when I'm still getting a better deal than I expected! As long as my deal was honoured, I'm happy. The devs have to eat too :thumbsup: I know if something is too cheap then it can only hurt getting the skilled people in, and I want skilled people working on my LightWave :)

sadkkf
12-14-2017, 10:39 AM
Seeing as how this upgrade price is only temporary and new licenses are now higher, I'm hoping NewTek will still be able to continue paying the developers and the developers will be able to eat.

Whatever they charge is (probably) fine with me as long as it's not a subscription.

sadkkf
12-14-2017, 10:41 AM
Charter was 395, non charter was 495. So we as charter members are getting a discount of $100 on the price for 2018 but then non charter are getting a $200 discount. So really NT is thanking new or non loyal members more than charter. The locked in price was intended to protect loyal users from price increases in the future. If everyone else is getting the same price as charter members, there is no benefit being given.

I personally don't care what other people pay. The fact I can upgrade for $295 removes any hesitation I may have to do so.

TheLexx
12-14-2017, 11:20 AM
Whatever they charge is (probably) fine with me as long as it's not a subscription.

And that nails it for me. Maybe the "proper cost" of professional 3D software with standalone licencing, continued development, big yearly updates and anti-piracy all factored into the pricing is presumably Cinema 4D Studio at $3,695.00. In a wider perspective I think that is a bargain, but not everyone can casually afford that or stay on the upgrade path, and after every annual release/upgrade there still remain wishlists from 4D users.

I once bought some Lightwave training from Liberty3D in a 25% discount sale. Some months later Kat had another flash sale and the same training came up at 40% discount. I still got a deal, but the real story is that it was worth every penny of the full price anyway.

$295.00 ?? Can no one see they are strategically letting us rob them, partially by way of genuine apology for the dark period ? Just one way of looking at it, there are of course others.

:)

hrgiger
12-14-2017, 11:28 AM
Haha,Its ok reading comprehension isnt a skill everyone has. I dont care about the cost of LW, it doesnt even factor in to my budget its so cheap right now. Its about NT honoring its commitments that it offered to users who declined a refund on LW10 and stuck with it for the exchange of special pricing on the next 5 updates of Lightwave. Maybe everyone here has short term memory but just a few weeks ago, people were busy engaged in conversations about what software they will jump to if lw is dead or contemplating what mysterious situation was causing the delay of lw 2018 and wondering what would cause lwg to go on a total blackout of information for the last year. Now everyone is just euphoric that lw isnt dead and theres a new lw version coming out and everything is all forgiven like nothing happened.
Silly me for expecting NT to keep its commitments to its customers who gave given them infinite patience in their myriad of missteps.

hypersuperduper
12-14-2017, 11:38 AM
When literally NO readers comprehend, maybe it’s the writing. You clearly care about the cost of lightwave for you vs others.

hrgiger
12-14-2017, 11:41 AM
No the fanboys are just hearing what they want to hear. Theyre just blinded by the news of the new release, they just cant stand any honest criticism. Ive bought software a hell of a lot more expensive than LW this year, the cost of LW for me is not the issue.

ristoraven
12-14-2017, 11:44 AM
Gentlemen,

LW is basically a Millenium Falcon of the 3D apps. You need to make some special modifications yourself to it and it will make the Kessel run under twelve parsecs. The way it has now been upgraded really wasn't from the book of "mastering the art of app creation", but, it seems it got the job done.

I personally find this as one of the reasons why LW is so appealing to me.

295$ is a perfect price.

Just saying. :)

hypersuperduper
12-14-2017, 12:20 PM
No the fanboys are just hearing what they want to hear. Theyre just blinded by the news of the new release, they just cant stand any honest criticism. Ive bought software a hell of a lot more expensive than LW this year, the cost of LW for me is not the issue.

Listen.
Neither I nor likely anyone else here believe you are objecting to the upgrade pricing for budgetary reasons.

You are objecting for bizarrely pedantic reasons.

You argue that since you, as one of us who bought into the core thing, have been promised preferential upgrade pricing (395 was it?) for 5 major versions, the fact that now EVERYONE, core or not, can upgrade for LESS than 395 for a period of 3 months, means you have been lied to. And now you are, on cue, flipping your lid.

Am I missing something?

I hear your argument, dismiss it as nonsense, and reply accordingly:

Haters gotta hate.

50one
12-14-2017, 12:29 PM
It's 295 for a new renderer for me. Gonna check back after initial reviews around March and see if it's worth it.

Some examples looks good - other, like that lambo on desert road - it's terrible.

kadri
12-14-2017, 12:37 PM
Listen.
Neither I nor likely anyone else here believe you are objecting to the upgrade pricing for budgetary reasons.

You are objecting for bizarrely pedantic reasons.

You argue that since you, as one of us who bought into the core thing, have been promised preferential upgrade pricing (395 was it?) for 5 major versions, the fact that now EVERYONE, core or not, can upgrade for LESS than 395 for a period of 3 months, means you have been lied to. And now you are, on cue, flipping your lid.

Am I missing something?

I hear your argument, dismiss it as nonsense, and reply accordingly:

Haters gotta hate.

It isn't nonsense. It wasn't worded in that way but it meant that they could buy Lightwave for a lower standard price then others pay for 5 versions.
Now everybody can buy it for the same price. He might still get it even for a lower price then promised but that isn't you can dismiss as nonsense at all.
And no i had't bought Lightwave-core with that discount. But he is right if he feels a little uneasy about it. Making a standard upgrade like 320 $ versus 280 $ for example might resolve such a problem. I think they talked about it and thought that a low price such +295 might be Ok to counter that...Anyway.

For this price it is a nice version i think (i am not so much into modeling).

SBowie
12-14-2017, 12:47 PM
Its about NT honoring its commitments that it offered to users who declined a refund on LW10 and stuck with it for the exchange of special pricing on the next 5 updates of Lightwave.100% agree with honoring commitments. I've not yet seen anywhere that has not been the case as this relates to financial commitments.

medunecer
12-14-2017, 12:48 PM
So who's upgrading?

Me!

hypersuperduper
12-14-2017, 12:52 PM
It isn't nonsense. It wasn't worded in that way but it meant that they could buy Lightwave for a lower standard price then others pay for 5 versions.
Now everybody can buy it for the same price. He might still get it even for a lower price then promised but that isn't you can dismiss as nonsense at all.
And no i had't bought Lightwave-core with that discount. But he is right if he feels a little uneasy about it. Making a standard upgrade like 320 $ versus 280 $ for example might resolve such a problem. I think they talked about it and thought that a low price such +295 might be Ok to counter that...Anyway.

For this price it is a nice version i think (i am not so much into modeling).

Almost everyone here, even hrgiger, agrees that the announced price is pretty good. The argument that Newtek has somehow broken its word to its charter members, of which I am one, is nonsense.

There are lots of legitimate reasons to have issues with Newtek. Its hard to argue against the ample evidence that LW3DG is pretty dysfunctional for example. and they have a tendency to let tools and programs die on the vine to the detriment of the users. and they fail to address longstanding technical drawbacks of lightwave. and of course: ROADMAP.

but as far as pricing fairly and TRYING to do right by their customers even though things have gone completely sideways, I personally have no complaints. They clearly need to work on the going sideways thing, but not on being fair, because they are doing that just fine in my opinion.

gjjackson
12-14-2017, 12:54 PM
I bought into Core and a charter member and all this complaining is about as petty as one can get. It's like I'm listening to a bunch of children. (Mommy, he got more than I did).

kadri
12-14-2017, 12:57 PM
Almost everyone here, even hrgiger, agrees that the announced price is pretty good. The argument that Newtek has somehow broken its word to its charter members, of which I am one, is nonsense.

There are some things that you couldn't win in a court but that doesn't mean you are wrong (at least to try ).

50one
12-14-2017, 12:58 PM
Core guys,


I told yous...it ain't gonna work, you didn't listen and now want indefinite discount.
Not happening, mwahaha.

Next time listen.

kadri
12-14-2017, 01:00 PM
Core guys,


I told yous...it ain't gonna work, you didn't listen and now want indefinite discount.
Not happening, mwahaha.

Next time listen.

Yeah that didn't look much that it would work flawlessly to me too then.

kadri
12-14-2017, 01:03 PM
Anyway. The price is really so low that it is seams unnecessary to write and argue much about it.
It was just that "Nonsense" is a little too hard when you talk here more about principles.

hypersuperduper
12-14-2017, 01:05 PM
Anyway. The price is really so low that it is seams unnecessary to write and argue much about it.
It was just that "Nonsense" is a little too hard when you talk here more about principles.

The line between "principles" and "nonsense" is very fine and very blurry.

Marander
12-14-2017, 01:32 PM
I'm not satisfied because I was informed repeatedly by LW3DG that I have to upgrade to 2015 in order to get LWNext for a cheaper price. A release I never had any use for and it really should have been 11.7. Only upgraded back then because of the LWNext sneak peaks.

Now that 400 bucks is wasted because I'm current but only valid until March. They said the new scheme is to get cheap upgrades for current users, not as introduction / time limited offer. Instead everyone gets it that way.

Now the same thing happens again as it was to 2015, forcing to upgrade to 2018 within a time frame.

I'll definitely will not upgrade in January (have to pay for R20 Studio MSA and Vue xStream maintenance and just got loads of new plugins), but when I see use for it (currently none). If it's for $295 at the time I decide yes, otherwise never. But the way I got to know NewTek they will not stick to their March pricing limit anyway.

Wickedpup
12-14-2017, 01:37 PM
100% agree with honoring commitments. I've not yet seen anywhere that has not been the case as this relates to financial commitments.

Here is the gist of it. As I said, they are offering me a pay less today, pay more tomorrow deal. I buy for $295, they raise the price in March, and the charter discount is history. The answer I got from support asking them this question was that they are currently contemplating what to do depending on how many users that buy the upgrade. So either they honour a previous commitment or they don't. The problem here is that the first alternative is a company that is interested in earning my trust, the latter is the "business as usual will-screw-you-over willing-to-go-Autodesk-on-your-***" NT we know.....as in they have learned diddelysquat from the last 10-20 years.....
Most people screaming here are only afraid of loosing their $295 upgrades:devil:

hypersuperduper
12-14-2017, 01:38 PM
I'm not satisfied because I was informed repeatedly by LW3DG that I have to upgrade to 2015 in order to get LWNext for a cheaper price. A release I never had any use for and it really should have been 11.7. Only upgraded back then because of the LWNext sneak peaks.

Now that 400 bucks is wasted because I'm current but only valid until March. They said the new scheme is to get cheap upgrades for current users, not as introduction / time limited offer. Instead everyone gets it that way.

Now the same thing happens again as it was to 2015, forcing to upgrade to 2018 within a time frame.

I'll definitely will not upgrade in January (have to pay for R20 Studio MSA and Vue xStream maintenance and just got loads of new plugins), but when I see use for it (currently none). If it's for $295 at the time I decide yes, otherwise never. But the way I got to know NewTek they will not stick to their March pricing limit anyway.

Take note, This is what a legitimate non-nonsense criticism looks like.

wingzeta
12-14-2017, 01:44 PM
I personally don't care what other people pay. The fact I can upgrade for $295 removes any hesitation I may have to do so.

I'm with you. I have the discount for 5 upgrades, and in the past it has only required upgrading before the next major upgrade comes out, or lose the discount. No other time limit. I read this current promotion as letting people with older versions in on the discount for the first three months. I did not read it as changing my discount. It is a good way to get more people to take the plunge. If you have been hanging out on LW 9, with no VPR for instance, there is no reason to wait any longer to update, and start enjoying all the improvements since then. Getting all those people up to date and into the ecosystem so to speak will be good for LW. In any case, I plan to upgrade ASAP, because I want the PBR, and new volumetrics. $295 is a great way to get lots of users to further invest in LW, which makes the next investment more likely. And be realistic, the industry and pricing have changed since core. Not a whole lot we can do about that.

We all want LW to improve and have certain features that it doesn't, and no one is too happy about the way NT handled communication, but as far as I understand, and from my past dealings with NT they will honor the charter discounts, whereas non-charter people will be subject to whatever the pricing / deal is at the moment. In the case of hrgiger, they might still honor the "core refund" you passed on, if you will switch full time to any other package.:D Like a reverse crossgrade promotion just for you:D Check out C4D, it has all the features you want and the high price you are looking for.:D Or, Maya, feature rich, and a subscription model that will warm your heart. :D Lots of smileys so you know I'm just busting your balls. But seriously, I could complain they have put out yet another version with the same UV tools or any number of things. I know it is frustrating to see the potential that LW has, and see it not fully realized due to various missteps in development. I'm right there with you. But to hang out on these forums looking for any issue to harp on, has to be bad for your health. The price is good for you, it is a great value for generalist 3D people. If you need it to be something else more specialized, modern, whatever... you may have to be realistic, and move on.

Wickedpup
12-14-2017, 02:07 PM
The line between "principles" and "nonsense" is very fine and very blurry.

Nah, it is a matter of when you are willing to bend over...so in your case the line starts at the lower end of your back

fishhead
12-14-2017, 02:17 PM
Well, whatever. I for one am a happy camper - I hope lots of users with older version hop onto the (very attractive, I have to add...) train.
And yes I am charter user! And am looking forward to send them my money!

Wickedpup
12-14-2017, 02:20 PM
I'm with you. I have the discount for 5 upgrades, and in the past it has only required upgrading before the next major upgrade comes out, or lose the discount. No other time limit. I read this current promotion as letting people with older versions in on the discount for the first three months. I did not read it as changing my discount. It is a good way to get more people to take the plunge. If you have been hanging out on LW 9, with no VPR for instance, there is no reason to wait any longer to update, and start enjoying all the improvements since then. Getting all those people up to date and into the ecosystem so to speak will be good for LW. In any case, I plan to upgrade ASAP, because I want the PBR, and new volumetrics. $295 is a great way to get lots of users to further invest in LW, which makes the next investment more likely. And be realistic, the industry and pricing have changed since core. Not a whole lot we can do about that.

We all want LW to improve and have certain features that it doesn't, and no one is too happy about the way NT handled communication, but as far as I understand, and from my past dealings with NT they will honor the charter discounts, whereas non-charter people will be subject to whatever the pricing / deal is at the moment. In the case of hrgiger, they might still honor the "core refund" you passed on, if you will switch full time to any other package.:D Like a reverse crossgrade promotion just for you:D Check out C4D, it has all the features you want and the high price you are looking for.:D Or, Maya, feature rich, and a subscription model that will warm your heart. :D Lots of smileys so you know I'm just busting your balls. But seriously, I could complain they have put out yet another version with the same UV tools or any number of things. I know it is frustrating to see the potential that LW has, and see it not fully realized due to various missteps in development. I'm right there with you. But to hang out on these forums looking for any issue to harp on, has to be bad for your health. The price is good for you, it is a great value for generalist 3D people. If you need it to be something else more specialized, modern, whatever... you may have to be realistic, and move on.

You clearly did not read my posts.....they WILL NOT honour the charter discount.....come April, prices go up, the charter discount is dead and you will pay the same as anyone else on future releases.....so: cheap today, pay more tomorrow.....

cagey5
12-14-2017, 02:41 PM
Until I see something official published in the public arena I am going to expect my charter pricing to remain in place. I've been encouraged to part with my money too soon too often. I'm going to take a long look before I spend this time. If that means I miss the 295 buy in then fine. But I still expect to upgrade for my charter price of 395.
Anyone care to clarify in an official capacity.

SBowie
12-14-2017, 02:45 PM
Let me see if I can parse this ...

Here is the gist of it. As I said, they are offering me a pay less today, pay more tomorrow deal. I buy for $295, they raise the price in March, and the charter discount is history.The last bit confuses me a bit, sorry. My understanding is that charter pricing remains valid, but the limited term promotional price actually comprises a better deal. Where have I got that wrong?


Most people screaming here are only afraid of loosing their $295 upgrades:devil:Do you mean, this opportunity will be lost if not exercised in timely fashion, or something else?

hypersuperduper
12-14-2017, 02:57 PM
Nah, it is a matter of when you are willing to bend over...so in your case the line starts at the lower end of your back
Cute.
The lower end of my back is a where not a when anyways. I think it is safe to say The line between principle and nonsense is a distant memory you passed long ago on your way to wherever the heck you are now.