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View Full Version : My lightwave 2015 64 bit installation on windows suddenly Gone



prometheus
11-26-2017, 05:08 PM
Weird, my 64 bit installation exe files are suddenly gone, the 32 bit versions are there though, but not the 64 bit.
Wonder what may have caused this, and if I can track what happened to those, recent boot and update of windows 10 perhaps?

RebelHill
11-26-2017, 05:27 PM
Yeah... Not only is next not released, but 2015 and earlier versions are being retroactively "un-released".

Didnt you get the email?

TheLexx
11-26-2017, 05:34 PM
In Windows 7, I've had all Lightwave disappear when I drag the licence file over to the splash screen, then have to reinstall, but this is the type of thing I was trying to allude to in the other thread when I mentioned scrutinising the operating system as a future consideration as well as the licence model of the software. I have found Windows "essential" updates to be something of an unknown quantity which can steamroller through some installations on a machine. Maybe try a LW reinstall or a system restore. Hope it gets sorted.

prometheus
11-26-2017, 06:41 PM
Yeah... Not only is next not released, but 2015 and earlier versions are being retroactively "un-released".

Didnt you get the email?

Yeah thatīs what I thought, I didnīt get the email though.

- - - Updated - - -


In Windows 7, I've had all Lightwave disappear when I drag the licence file over to the splash screen, then have to reinstall, but this is the type of thing I was trying to allude to in the other thread when I mentioned scrutinising the operating system as a future consideration as well as the licence model of the software. I have found Windows "essential" updates to be something of an unknown quantity which can steamroller through some installations on a machine. Maybe try a LW reinstall or a system restore. Hope it gets sorted.

reinstalling isnīt a problem, except itīs a problem :)
In the sensee that it is tiresome, and reinstalling plugins again, should have made a backup folder of the plugins folder for that 64 installement.
a system restore is a bit out of the question right now.

fishhead
11-27-2017, 02:56 AM
If itīs only the executables, is it not an option just to copy those back from the installation archive?
Have you by any chance installed a new virus checker recently?
I had some trouble with my kasperskylab the other day, as it insisted to quarantine my fusion.exe every time it scanned through the folders...

prometheus
11-27-2017, 10:14 AM
If itīs only the executables, is it not an option just to copy those back from the installation archive?
Have you by any chance installed a new virus checker recently?
I had some trouble with my kasperskylab the other day, as it insisted to quarantine my fusion.exe every time it scanned through the folders...

Hi!
well..not a new virus checker, I rebooted the computer after a long time without rebooting, so windows 10 had some updates, and also avast that needed to shut down the computer and restart, I checked avast logs, but couldnīt find anything in there that indicates it should have removed files, so I have to look at windows logs instead if I get the time to see what was going on.

Anyway, yes..my other folders are there, I thought the plugins folder was gone, but by old habit I was watching out for the plugins folder in a higher level and forgot that the plugins nowadays are within the support folder, my bad..
So it may work to copy the bin folder, that is the only one missing. or I simply just copy the whole shabang, and put it on an external drive and reinstall and then reinstall the plugins again, I do not think it will be an issue...itīs just that I would like to know why it happen to avoid it in the future.

Yeah...fusion I also think may have been warned for by certain antivirus, you could do an exclusion and add that to a list in your antivirus, that should be possible with Kaspersky I think, it is in avast anyway.
I had that issue with tarons verve fluid painting software, and had to make an exception for it while downloading and then when opening the file.

Sensei
11-27-2017, 11:12 AM
Weird, my 64 bit installation exe files are suddenly gone, the 32 bit versions are there though, but not the 64 bit.

I just downloaded LW 2015.3 32 & 64 bit without any problems..

prometheus
11-27-2017, 11:15 AM
I just downloaded LW 2015.3 32 & 64 bit without any problems..

That is no surprise and thatīs how it should be and probably is :)

Not sure if you have read my post carefully from the beginning? or if I was unclear, the issue isnīt downloading from the account, it was about my 64 bit installation on Windows that had itīs bin folder removed, probably by windows 10 update, or avast... or maybe if I accidently was lurking in that folder and just so happened to hit the delete button, not likely..it would also be in the recycle bin, which it aint.

Sensei
11-27-2017, 11:22 AM
Did you have system crash/lack of power, which caused rescan of the all files on the all partitions recently during bootup.. ?

prometheus
11-27-2017, 11:46 AM
Did you have system crash/lack of power, which caused rescan of the all files on the all partitions recently during bootup.. ?

Nope, I just rebooted since I wanted to do that, no system crash, no lack of power.

magiclight
11-27-2017, 01:12 PM
Was the entire folder gone or just the files ?

Ma3rk
11-27-2017, 02:51 PM
That is no surprise and thatīs how it should be and probably is :)

Not sure if you have read my post carefully from the beginning? or if I was unclear, the issue isnīt downloading from the account, it was about my 64 bit installation on Windows that had itīs bin folder removed, probably by windows 10 update, or avast... or maybe if I accidently was lurking in that folder and just so happened to hit the delete button, not likely..it would also be in the recycle bin, which it aint.

Yikes! That is a bit scary. I'm still on Win7 but keep hearing these horror stories of Win10 "updates".

Years ago, I had a similar thing happen with LW 9.6 I think. None of the Beta testers as it turned out had actually tested an option for the new "Help" system. So, here comes me, the "Bug Magnet" & tried an option other than the default and ... my ENTIRE LW folder got deleted. Contacted Newtek & they confirmed it as a repeatable issue.

Fortunately, I'd made a full backup only 10 minutes prior so didn't lose anything, but ...

Is there an option to only notify but not install the updates with Win10?

magiclight
11-28-2017, 02:10 AM
No, the Microsoft advertising platform version 10 will always install the updates, you can delay them but as long as it has a connection to internet it will download and install them sooner or later.

prometheus
11-28-2017, 10:24 AM
Was the entire folder gone or just the files ?
The entire Bin folder is gone, but not the other folders, so no..not just the files.


No, the Microsoft advertising platform version 10 will always install the updates, you can delay them but as long as it has a connection to internet it will download and install them sooner or later.
Thatīs not nice.

Marander
11-28-2017, 11:11 AM
That's bad!

Did you have LW installed in the \Program Files\NewTek or \Program Files (x86)\NewTek folder? Do you run an English or Swedish version of Windows?

I'm asking because these folders are virtualized (meaning you don't really see the real folder, in German it would be for example \Programme but on the disk it really is \Program Files. The same applies for 32/64/WOW64 installations and registry settings as far as I know.

This is one of the reasons I always use / install English Operating Systems and if possible only run 64bit applications on Win64.

Anyway, no excuse for removing your binaries and I don't know the reason / solution for your problem unfortunately.

For anything other than 3D and VMware (requiring lots of memory and processor power) I use Linux/Unix/Mac anyway. Hmm thinking of it I'm writing this on the Surface, so not really:confused:
For work I use a MacBook Pro, far less issues with updates.

What I hate specially is when I forgot to cap the internet connection and disable updates on a Win10 PC and it restarts middle of a render:devil: That's one of the reasons why I'm offline with the desktop machines whenever possible. Besides that I really like Win10.

Besides this issue, I hope you're still having fun with your new machine!

prometheus
11-28-2017, 11:55 AM
That's bad!

Did you have LW installed in the \Program Files\NewTek or \Program Files (x86)\NewTek folder? Do you run an English or Swedish version of Windows?

I'm asking because these folders are virtualized (meaning you don't really see the real folder, in German it would be for example \Programme but on the disk it really is \Program Files. The same applies for 32/64/WOW64 installations and registry settings as far as I know.

This is one of the reasons I always use / install English Operating Systems and if possible only run 64bit applications on Win64.

Anyway, no excuse for removing your binaries and I don't know the reason / solution for your problem unfortunately.

For anything other than 3D and VMware (requiring lots of memory and processor power) I use Linux/Unix/Mac anyway. Hmm thinking of it I'm writing this on the Surface, so not really:confused:
For work I use a MacBook Pro, far less issues with updates.

What I hate specially is when I forgot to cap the internet connection and disable updates on a Win10 PC and it restarts middle of a render:devil: That's one of the reasons why I'm offline with the desktop machines whenever possible. Besides that I really like Win10.

Besides this issue, I hope you're still having fun with your new machine!

you mention the x86 folder, that is for 32 bit, so not sure why you ask about that? 64 bit usually by default installs in the program files folder.
Anyway..the 64 bit was installed in the program files folder.

I am using a swedish language windows 10 version.
Running only 64 bit on a 64 bit computer system?..that is simply out of the question, too many sweet modeling plugins that arenīt available in 64 bit, in fact I recommend everyone to install 32 bit because of that, and donīt go mac either :D

I will keep track of this more carefully if the next reboot of the windows update... or if any avast update requires rebooting...and really check if it removes it again or something else, and take note...so I may track it down, if it has happened once, it is most likely to happen twice, if the environment causing it still persists and If I havenīt taken action to prevent it before it happens again.

I am not having as much fun as I want with my new machine, I still have various demos of software that I need to evaluate, modo, houdini etc..though I may get some time for that during christmas leave, which would be something of 10 days of not working where I usually work, right now I have been learning a new job for some months, and I am pretty exhausted, so not much energy left for 3d work nowadays...it may get better once I have learned the new job so that goes more by routine, and it will be easier to find strength when I get home to do some personal projects in 3d.

prometheus
11-28-2017, 12:10 PM
One thought, hurleyworks UP plugin is the only plugin I came across that required to change the folders to full permission on that whole newtek folder...if that by any chance could have opened up for windows or avast to delete the folder, a long shot perhaps?

magiclight
11-28-2017, 02:24 PM
The entire Bin folder is gone, but not the other folders, so no..not just the files.

If it was antivirus related I don't think it would remove the folders, they are usually still there, it would just quarantine the files, you could always have a peek in the rubbish bin and see if they might be there, if they got deleted using any Windows shell operation they may have ended up there, but still would not explain what happened to them, I guess you are not a sleepwalker or so ;)

Marander
11-28-2017, 02:48 PM
One thought, hurleyworks UP plugin is the only plugin I came across that required to change the folders to full permission on that whole newtek folder...if that by any chance could have opened up for windows or avast to delete the folder, a long shot perhaps?

Hmm don't know. Advanced Placement is the same (mess with user rights, really annoying) but maybe you're on the right track with Avast, I often hear of false positives lately. However you should see something in its log and you should have gotten an alert.

While it's not a bad AV (or let's say one of the better ones), maybe try Avira (but it has annoying promo popups), Symantec (bloatware) or Windows Defender alone (not that bad actually and doesn't eat too much resources).

Don't know why UP / AP is developed that way, AP requires special user rights and creates dump files in places I don't want (desktop for example) and is very crashy (at least the last version I tried). Never really had much fun with it. Having said that I just checked if there's a new version available (there isn't), the updater messes up the whole plugin interface with html code. It still is very clunky to use, but at least it doesn't crash immediately with some test objects anymore. Don't know if UP is better but I have no intention ever trying it.

Edit: LOL took some minutes more and there it is again, AP crashed Layout. And a dump file on the desktop. What a crap software. Submit crash report? I'm sure nobody would even have a look at it since there are no bug fixes. Don't know why I still bother with LW.

Sorry Prom for my frustrated words, that's just the usual LW experience for me.

rustythe1
11-28-2017, 04:46 PM
One thought, hurleyworks UP plugin is the only plugin I came across that required to change the folders to full permission on that whole newtek folder...if that by any chance could have opened up for windows or avast to delete the folder, a long shot perhaps?

i have a feeling that in the last major update they actually changed it so that you cant change the permissions (even if you think you have) on folders in system folders, that also includes program files folder, they did also remove the ability to put off updates for a month down to 8 hours!

TheLexx
11-28-2017, 05:27 PM
I don't have much direct experience with Windows 10, but from a distance it is seeming more frightening than useful. Is there any general consensus on this ?

Even in Windows 7, I got the impression that half the KB updates were just forming a Spy vs Spy pyramid of some sort. Updates froze my motion tracking software on the machine when I was supposed to be able to take off the licence at will. Then when I unistalled the last KB, it sent the entire SSD into some sort of digital catalepsy which I have yet to recover from.

Thinking out loud, might it be feasible to take the main desktop offline, and use a separate machine for internet and anti-virus software to scan the main desktop externally ?

DonJMyers
11-28-2017, 06:06 PM
Windows 10 pushes HUGE "creators updates" on you and places the old copy of windows in a folder called "windows_old" - look for it there perhaps?

MichaelT
11-28-2017, 06:29 PM
No, the Microsoft advertising platform version 10 will always install the updates, you can delay them but as long as it has a connection to internet it will download and install them sooner or later.

Unless you forcibly block these things. I use a tool called OOShutup10 (https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10) to do this. It works pretty well, it is free too. It's crazy that such tools are even needed to get control over your own computer.
I'm pointing the finger directly at Satya Nadella at Microsoft.

If you do choose to use the program I mentioned, have a good look at what Microsoft does to your machine. You will see all things that are currently known in that list... it is quite the depressing read.

prometheus
11-29-2017, 09:30 AM
Windows 10 pushes HUGE "creators updates" on you and places the old copy of windows in a folder called "windows_old" - look for it there perhaps?

havenīt seen such folder anywere, might be hidden.

- - - Updated - - -


Unless you forcibly block these things. I use a tool called OOShutup10 (https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10) to do this. It works pretty well, it is free too. It's crazy that such tools are even needed to get control over your own computer.
I'm pointing the finger directly at Satya Nadella at Microsoft.

If you do choose to use the program I mentioned, have a good look at what Microsoft does to your machine. You will see all things that are currently known in that list... it is quite the depressing read.

Thanks for that tip.

prometheus
11-29-2017, 09:35 AM
You know what guys, when I look at the update history in the windows update control panel, the last update was 2017-11-15 and Lightwave 64 bit was removed after that as I recall, which leads me to think there is something else going on, and maybe something with avast actually since it needed to reboot the computer and install a new version of avast, though I can not track if avast has removed it or not.
usually avast removes files and not whole folders...so itīs a mystery.

MichaelT
11-29-2017, 02:45 PM
Another little tidbit... if you do block the telemetry stuff.. keep in mind that Windows will restore one of them at next reboot. But blocking it once again, will keep it blocked. The program I mentioned, will notify you when this happened, next time you start it up.

prometheus
12-04-2017, 08:43 AM
Hold your horses...now my 2015 32 bit folder is gone as well (the bin folder only)
bummer, I was testing lightwave 2015.3 32 bit.. with some viper stuff and volumetric lights, it crashed...at the same time I also restarted firefox and avast warned upon reboot of the browser, that there was a malicious code preventing avast web clean up, and if I wished to solve the issue, which I clicked ok on...then I was about to restart lightwave, but it is now gone ..just like the 64 bit version before..so I suspect..A, It doesnīt seem to have anything to do with the windows update, B..it seems likely that it is avast web clean up that may be removing my bin folder, C..not likely due to the lightwave crash.

So my guess is that Avast is removing files it shouldnīt, and the question is as follows...my Lighwave bin folder may in fact be infected with virus, or Avast is removing fully perfect files and thus are responsible for not being a good antivirus software..
So what is most likely here?

gar26lw
12-04-2017, 12:05 PM
remove avast abd see what happens.

rustythe1
12-04-2017, 02:06 PM
actually its now widely reported on the web that the last big update (November) in windows will remove programs that have compatibility issues, and it wont tell you it did it! i can no longer get formlabs software to stay on my pc, it even removes the exe file if you try to download a new copy, Lightwave needs to be updated!

TheLexx
12-04-2017, 02:13 PM
actually its now widely reported on the web that the last big update (November) in windows will remove programs that have compatibility issues, and it wont tell you it did it! i can no longer get formlabs software to stay on my pc, it even removes the exe file if you try to download a new copy, Lightwave needs to be updated!
Disquieting to hear. If prometheus gets his system functional again, and even if LW is updated, I wonder what the backup plan would be to stop compulsory updates ruining a system at a whim in the future.

rustythe1
12-04-2017, 02:19 PM
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/x-programs-windows-10-may-remove-device/ (also note it says it will remove avast at some point as it is troublesome)

TheLexx
12-04-2017, 02:50 PM
Thanks rustythe1.

"If Windows deems your antivirus version to be an issue during the update, it will simply remove it, without warning, and replace it with its own antivirus package."

Oh boy, it sounds like a virus itself. My own Windows 7 issues, including snail performance, were solved by a clean reinstall, then completely turning off IE and freezing updates. All mysterious crash and sudden reboot cycles have vanished since. I don't know in reality how effective or up-to-date a Windows emulator like Wine is in Linux, but might be worth investigating with the view to bypass Windows altogether. Last I heard, LW10 worked (https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=339)well like this.

Modo Linux is one good thing they did. I once read Maxon even do a secret version for 4D (https://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/forums/topic/82380-cinema-4d-on-linux/?tab=comments#comment-567981), but only available to larger companies. And Blender seemed to know..... Sadly none of which helps prometheus or anyone immediately.

bobakabob
12-04-2017, 03:56 PM
actually its now widely reported on the web that the last big update (November) in windows will remove programs that have compatibility issues, and it wont tell you it did it! i can no longer get formlabs software to stay on my pc, it even removes the exe file if you try to download a new copy, Lightwave needs to be updated!

Ridiculous... An os shouldn't exist for its own sake deleting programmes! I've been creating restore points in W10 in the hope it will avert these issues if they arise and "froze" my W7 computer a long time ago.
Otherwise a clean installation of LW should work suggested here https://www.howtogeek.com/243581/windows-10-may-delete-your-programs-without-asking/
One more thing, have you checked your hard drive, it could be flakey..?

prometheus
12-04-2017, 04:05 PM
actually its now widely reported on the web that the last big update (November) in windows will remove programs that have compatibility issues, and it wont tell you it did it! i can no longer get formlabs software to stay on my pc, it even removes the exe file if you try to download a new copy, Lightwave needs to be updated!

Maybe so...but this does more look like an avast issue, web rep cleaner, rather than a windows update, since I checked the windows last update, and that was the 15 of november, before lightwave 64 bit vanished, and it vanished very closely to when I rebooted because of avast needed to do so and also update avast, so that time it seemed like it could be avast, and now today, I closed the webbrowser, restarted it..and avast promted immediately to solve the issue of a malicious code in the browser preventing avast to clean up properly and directly after I hit solve, I found my 32 bit lightwave bin folder also gone.

It could be that lightwave bin folder has been infected or something, then avast choose to delete the whole bin folder, then I know I had to make some folder changes of rights over the whole newtek folders for the up plugin to work, may have left it unguarded, I am not going to install the worley up plugin further on anyway, so if that was it..then it will show soon enough.

MichaelT
12-05-2017, 02:01 AM
actually its now widely reported on the web that the last big update (November) in windows will remove programs that have compatibility issues, and it wont tell you it did it! i can no longer get formlabs software to stay on my pc, it even removes the exe file if you try to download a new copy, Lightwave needs to be updated!

Afaik windows only removes programs that have newer versions available. And for me this have only ever happened once, with ccleaner. But this isn't new though, windows have done this for a long time. Also.. when making statements like this.. please provide a link. Or this is just strawman arguments.
Btw.. are you sure you weren't reading two year old posts? Because it sounds like you have. Because that's when both speccy & ccleaner were erased on peoples computers. Because these two happened to be very popular. This is very rare however, and most people never see or even hear about it. I know there are people from Microsoft here, they might be able to say more about it. But I've never heard this to be something they do normally, unless it is really quite a serious problem with the software.

rustythe1
12-05-2017, 03:30 AM
its a new feature added in the November update which removes software that can cause crashes and memory problems, its only supposed to do it when the update installs but more and more people are reporting its happening after, i am having the same issue with several other softwares, i don't run any external anti virus and there is never a log of the removal happening, you install software, runs fine, restart the machine and the install folder is empty! its usually software that relates to hardware, 3d printers etc, motherboard softwares,

MichaelT
12-05-2017, 05:32 AM
its a new feature added in the November update which removes software that can cause crashes and memory problems, its only supposed to do it when the update installs but more and more people are reporting its happening after, i am having the same issue with several other softwares, i don't run any external anti virus and there is never a log of the removal happening, you install software, runs fine, restart the machine and the install folder is empty! its usually software that relates to hardware, 3d printers etc, motherboard softwares,

Ahaa :) but like I said. I've never heard them removing anything that doesn't have never versions of it. So check if there is a fix, or later update. Otherwise I'm thinking Microsoft may be looking at a class action lawsuit. Removing things with no notice at all is pretty serious.
..And this is why I have disabled auto updates from Microsoft. So I hear about shenanigans like this, before I do.

prometheus
12-05-2017, 08:59 AM
My lightwave 32 bit now recent installement survived a bigger windows 10 update, so it seems more and more likely that windows 10 hasnīt been the issue here, the windows 10 update..did however change my desktop color theme from grey to black, so I have to adjust that..not good, but not such a big deal.

I will keep track on avast though and see what happens, if it occours again, I may change antivirus.

jwiede
12-05-2017, 10:28 AM
its a new feature added in the November update which removes software that can cause crashes and memory problems, its only supposed to do it when the update installs but more and more people are reporting its happening after

Sounds like you're mixing multiple distinct, reported issues together. You seem to be describing two separate scenarios where app "removal" can occur (kinda), but only one actually involves app deletion, the profile-related situation isn't typically a case of app deletion.

1. Win10 Nov Update did indeed uninstall certain "incompatible" programs during the update, but it's action was only limited to while the update was running. There's no ongoing agent for deleting apps after the update execution has completed.

2. If a user's login profile files aren't available at time of login (missing drive, network down, etc.) then they get logged into a temporary profile (and are CLEARLY notified of that during the login). Upon logout, that temporary profile is deleted, and any profile changes that occurred (installing apps, etc.) go with it -- but the installed app remains installed, the user's profile simply never received the changes to Programs menu, etc. because those changes were made to a temp profile instead and subsequently deleted on logout. This one is simple to avoid: If you ever login and are told you're running on a temporary profile, you need to identify/fix the reason why your profile isn't accessible then logout and re-login, ASAP.

Do NOT do operations like app installs, etc. while running on a temporary profile, the profile changes made will be deleted when you logout of the temporary profile. It's called a "temporary profile" because that's exactly what it is, temporary.

If you have seen reports on apps actually being uninstalled/deleted by Windows 10 itself after the execution of the Nov'15 update, please provide references/links?

The only references I was able to find about ongoing app "removal" post-upgrade involved the temporary profile scenario, and in that case, the deletion of the temporary profile can only remove apps if they're installed local to the profile. In vast majority of cases apps are not installed profile-local, and though possible, installing profile-local apps into a temp profile that gets deleted upon logout is obviously going to create problems.