PDA

View Full Version : Was considering LW for my new G5....



Turner
12-22-2003, 05:51 AM
But after not getting much response in the other forum regarding a potential purchase, as I'm also considering Cinema 4d, Maya, etc....

Well, after reading a bit here (forum begins with a BIG bug list??) and reading other places about 7.5 not being "up to snuff" for the Mac OS, I'm having second thoughts.

I realize there is a free upgrade to 8.0 whenever that comes out, but there is a glaring lack of information available on 8.0 - is it cleaned up for Mac? Optimized for dual processors? Bugs fixed? (Glaring only so far as I haven't been able to find too much "official" info.) One thing I'd like to know is if there is more in-depth info on the new features, especially anything having to do with particles and physics.

I've also read in these forums that it just doesn't run too fast on Macs, and, well, part of the reason I bought the G5 2x2 was for speed ;)

Any help appreciated -

Thanks,
Andrew

NonPlanar
12-22-2003, 07:19 AM
I just got a Dual G5 2GHz, 512 MB only, and the 64MB ATI (didn't get teh 128 cuz I'm planning on getting one or the newer pro cards that are rumored..)

There are some bugs right now that pertain only to Panther (mac os x 10.3.x), Newtek has confirmed these are fixed in 8....

Anyway, Lightwave isn't the only App that has issues with OS 10.3... so don't be too harsh on them.

Now, about whether LW is fast on the G5 or not:

WHOAAAAAAHHHH... it's super... if you've read any of my posts in the last few days you would have noticed I have gone completely mental cuz it's so fast.

Anyway, all new releases of any software will have some bugs at first. And that combined with a new type of processor (G5)... it was to be expected.

I also know it will be fixed... we're just all very anxious and so we're giving Newtek a hard time to speed things up a bit.... I'm actually more pissed at Apple since the Mac I got is apparently fixed so it won't run anything prior to Panther.

Still, I'm high as a kite with the G5

my 2 ct

Turner
12-22-2003, 07:36 AM
Thanks for the info...

How is it, exactly, your machine won't run anything prior to Panther?

Just curious... I'm keeping my G3 400 in the loop anyway, but I'm interested in finding out.

Oh, also, as far as Newtek confirming "fixed for 8" - is there a good spot to read their official stuff?

I looked around the site but didn't find anything. I'm sure I'm just looking in the wrong spots.

Thanks,
Andrew

NonPlanar
12-22-2003, 07:54 AM
it simlpy won't boot off of any jaguar install disc... not even pre-installed jaguar on firewire....

I heard you need 10.2.7 for the G5 to run on jaguar.... But I just got off the phone with apple tech support to find out they don't offer 10.2.7 anymore!!! Only 10.2.6 and 10.2.8 (combo).


So, I if anyone knows where to get 10.2.7 yet....

mlinde
12-22-2003, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by NonPlanar
So, I if anyone knows where to get 10.2.7 yet....
Hey NP -- If you are near to an Apple Retail store, bring a couple of blank CDs down, head over to the Genius Bar, and explain your situation. They may be willing to assist you in acquiring a copy of the 10.2.7 OS X CDs that shipped with the G5 originally.

Never underestimate the power of helpful techies.

Beamtracer
12-22-2003, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by Turner
I've also read in these forums that it just doesn't run too fast on Macs
Hi Turner.

As with many computer threads, there's always the Mac Vs Windows stuff. "Mine works faster than their's" kind of thing.

I think most of the posters (even on the Mac forum) who claim it is not fast on the G5 are people who use Windows for Lightwave, and want others to switch to Windows.

I find my G5 very fast with Lightwave. Very stable. I'm very happy.

As I said in the other thread, if you use LW7.5, use it with OS X 10.2.7 or 10.2.8. It will work very well on these OSes.

If you get Lightwave 7.5, I'd recommend you get hold of an OS 10.2.7 or 10.2.8 disk. When Lightwave 8 comes out, switch to Panther.

It's just that Lightwave 7.5 was built long before the Panther OS, and software that has complex OpenGL routines needs updating for Panther. Newtek has said that all compatibility issues with Panther have been fixed with Lightwave 8.

Maybe Newtek's Mac guru Scott could give Turner some more detail regarding Panther by posting on this thread.

Lightwave works well now on the G5. The Panther/LW8 combination will make it even better.

Beamtracer
12-22-2003, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by NonPlanar
I heard you need 10.2.7 for the G5 to run on jaguar.... But I just got off the phone with apple tech support to find out they don't offer 10.2.7 anymore!!! Only 10.2.6 and 10.2.8 (combo).
Lightwave 7.5 should run fine on 10.2.8. When they use the term "combo" it sounds like they're referring to the downloadable "updates" from Apple's website.

NonPlanar
12-22-2003, 09:13 AM
Beamtracer, yes, LW does run just fine on 10.2.8 the problem the G5 won't install any jaguar unless you have a 10.2.7 install disc....

Apple has just confirmed that to me, but they are no longer offering that version (only 2.8 and 2.6 ). However, they're trying see if they can still get me those install discs for 10.2.7... still by the time I would get them in LW 8 is probably out.. so I will have to sit this one out.

I won't tell you the reaction they had when they found out Newtek had still not released an update after 2 months of Panther... But it wasn't "Holy X-Mas".

I'm sure it will all be good in a few days... (weeks?)

NonPlanar
12-22-2003, 09:17 AM
mlinde, thanks... I am trying that.

eblu
12-22-2003, 12:06 PM
re: speed
my two cents:
I have had the "opportunity" to work on a dual 2 gig xeon compaq with the GeForce 4TI card in it. My current setup is a 1 gig dual Quicksilver, with a NVidia 4MX in it. I was running back and forth working on the same files.

My scene file had 1 texture map in it and it is a doosey a 61 megabyte .psd file (don't ask). Some interesting comparisons developed over the course of working with both machines at once.

1. LW PC opengl is fluid and much faster than LW mac opengl, I honestly doubt its the 3d card, I personally believe that LW mac is having software problems in the display dept. This is not just noticeable, its glaringly obvious. playback on the pc running at about 2x's real-time speed, and playback on the mac running at about 1/2 real time.

2. pc lw takes FOREVER and a day to generate an openGL texture, and crashes about 3 out of 5 times per attempt (with my 61 meg file) we're talking about a dual xeon with the max ram possible (i'm not even sure how much it is, only that the Mobo won't take anymore, in the 1 -2 gig range) The mac loaded the scene file every time with nary a complaint, and in about half the time.

3. the dual 2 gig xeon is roughly 3xs as fast a renderer than the dual 1 gig g4. Its obviously not a fair comparison, the mac is older, more expensive, and all around much more capable a system than the dual xeon (final cut station with a digital voodoo card, plus a scsi raid array), but it is part of the comparison.

Now I haven't benchmarked a 2 gig dual g5, but its obvious that the g5 (on a per mhz basis) is about twice as fast as a g4 (floating point ability was dramatically upgraded going to the g5), so I would expect a dual 2 gig g5 to keep up with a dual 2 gig xeon, excepting of course those areas where LW just isn't up to snuff (ray cast transparency, radiosity, etc...).

toby
12-22-2003, 04:03 PM
"Optimized for dual processors?"

Very much so, except maybe for plug-ins and post-process filters - last I heard, Maya wasn't mulit-threaded at all on the Mac.

Turner
12-22-2003, 04:14 PM
From http://www.macworld.com/2003/01/reviews/mayacomplete4/

(and that's back in January) -

"Although Maya now supports dual processors for rendering and other computation-intensive functions, users will notice mainly that the program is simply faster and more fluid than it was, even on single-processor Macs."

Not sure what >isn't< "computation-intensive", but there you have it.


Originally posted by toby
"Optimized for dual processors?"

Very much so, except maybe for plug-ins and post-process filters - last I heard, Maya wasn't mulit-threaded at all on the Mac.

toby
12-22-2003, 04:49 PM
oh well - time flies doesn't it? :D

at least they fixed it -

Ade
12-22-2003, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Turner
From http://www.macworld.com/2003/01/reviews/mayacomplete4/

(and that's back in January) -

"Although Maya now supports dual processors for rendering and other computation-intensive functions, users will notice mainly that the program is simply faster and more fluid than it was, even on single-processor Macs."

Not sure what >isn't< "computation-intensive", but there you have it.

Turner I have spoken to many paya users who dont really have much to say about SMPT in Maya.
Lightwave is a far better choice for dual support.. Maya is a great app for its scripting capabilities, its nurbs are o.k not great.
Lightwave is cheaper, u get more, u get a great community (the biggest), the most upto date free tutorials and the best tech support over them all...This forum.

Lightwave has the experience if cinema hollywood broadcasting is what u want.

any ppl who use Maya, dont use it to model. LW has the best modeler imho.

Apple seems to prefer LW and Maya, although C4d should be noticed some reason it just never is, mainly cause it isnt backed by a huge studio?

Beamtracer
12-22-2003, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by Ade
any ppl who use Maya, dont use it to model. People don't render in Maya, either. They always render in some other 3rd party rendering app, like Renderman or Mentalray. Maya's internal renderer is not considered very good.

Alias does bundling deals with other renderers. Currently with Mentalray. However, many find Mentalray quirky and difficult to use.

archiea
12-23-2003, 12:57 AM
Dl the demo for LW from the NT page...

http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/downloads/index.html

Then review some of the free tutorials to help you evaluate..

http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/index.html

This should help with your decisions. Asking mac fans if the mac is good for LW is like asking a femenist what her opinion is regarding women's right... except that after two or three days, the feminist eventually shuts up. we don't. :eek:

eblu
12-23-2003, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by Ade

any ppl who use Maya, dont use it to model. LW has the best modeler imho.


sorry ade,
It used to be that LW had the best modeler, but Newtek has been sitting on its reputation and not making it better. While newtek has been resting, many of the modelers out there have gotten significantly better, to the point of needing to be re-evaluated. (just an aside, the nurbs in maya are the most accurate available, they are in fact a pain in the *****, but as far as Nurbs are concerned, Maya is the king). Maya for instance can have N-sided polygons in Sub-d models, which is actually much more useful than not being able to have N-sided polys in Sub-d models. I seriously like LW Modeler, and its still the easiest/fastest to use, but not necessarily the best. I do noodle with maya, and the modeler specifically has my attention. the point? Newtek's reputation as the Best modeling package is slipping, its time they focused on fixing the problems, tightening up the workflow, and adding Helpful/useful features.

NonPlanar
12-23-2003, 08:26 AM
This should help with your decisions. Asking mac fans if the mac is good for LW is like asking a femenist what her opinion is regarding women's right... except that after two or three days, the feminist eventually shuts up. we don't.



Eh, ok... but the guy already has a mac... Question was if he should go with LW for mac or another 3D app for mac.

And it's feminist, not femenist.

Boo!
12-23-2003, 08:39 AM
...i say, i say Nonplaner
i read the earlier posts about the probs with LW7.5 and Panther and how G5's wont take anything lower than Panther to boot up.
but could i still use a G5 runnin Panther to render usin that screamnet control thingy?

i ask cause i'm lookin to buy a G5 in January but i dont want probs that you get with Panther. right now i'm usin Jaguar 10.2.6 G4 867 ati 128 card with a fat smile on my face. i've also got a couple of trainin discs for 7.5 which is one big reason for me not upgrade to LW-8 if they have changed a lot of things about the app.
:)

NonPlanar
12-23-2003, 01:39 PM
Boo!

You sure can,... at least ... I am.... I'm modeling on the G5, animating on it... until I need the Graph-Ed... then fix that on the G4 running Jag.

I would do it all on the G4, but man, the G5 is so much faster... anywho.. on to your question...

I then render it all out over my Screaming network... currently running the Dual G5, form where I control the Screaming, and so far so good.

Besides, the problems should really be fixed in January... else I'm on my way to Maya.

Boo!
12-23-2003, 02:29 PM
...cool!
i really have my eyeballs set on a G5 second generation which should just be around the corner

http://www.appleinsider.com/news.php?id=330

just a little:mad: at this Panther issue and like i said i dont really wanna move to LW-8 when i'm still gettin ta grips with 7.5 and the trainin discs.
well as long as i can use the G5 and Panther for renderin i'm Swayze!
:D

Ade
12-23-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by eblu
sorry ade,
It used to be that LW had the best modeler, but Newtek has been sitting on its reputation and not making it better. While newtek has been resting, many of the modelers out there have gotten significantly better, to the point of needing to be re-evaluated. (just an aside, the nurbs in maya are the most accurate available, they are in fact a pain in the *****, but as far as Nurbs are concerned, Maya is the king). Maya for instance can have N-sided polygons in Sub-d models, which is actually much more useful than not being able to have N-sided polys in Sub-d models. I seriously like LW Modeler, and its still the easiest/fastest to use, but not necessarily the best. I do noodle with maya, and the modeler specifically has my attention. the point? Newtek's reputation as the Best modeling package is slipping, its time they focused on fixing the problems, tightening up the workflow, and adding Helpful/useful features.

Probably right, i hear of instances, save solutions, nurbs support ect for other packages yet never nothing like this in LW..Maybe LW8?

themaxx
12-23-2003, 09:24 PM
I'm running Panther. Modeler has been rock solid stable, and layout hasn't given me any trouble either. I can confirm the graph editor bug, but as I'm not currently doing animation it hasn't affected me.

I'm very happy with my G5 2x2 and LW. My G5 renders over 3 times faster than my dual 533 G4.

If I had it to do over again I'd get the G5 again.