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erikals
10-31-2017, 05:04 AM
worth a watch


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3KtvOIEgHU

however, hefty price...
https://www.google.no/search?client=firefox-b&dcr=0&ei=T1r4WeauOoqb6ATLrKXQAw&q=synertial+price&oq=Synertial+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.0i19k1l5j0i30i19k1l3j0i10i30i19k1j0i30i19k1 .15376.15376.0.16803.1.1.0.0.0.0.151.151.0j1.1.0.. ..0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.151....0.XLPFs1Hkvss

Surrealist.
10-31-2017, 05:27 AM
Granted, they would have gotten better results from continuing to recalculate the PN suit. And maybe they did not properly set it up initially. Maybe results would have been slightly better. But other than that it is fairly accurate, The PN is a piece of crap.

erikals
10-31-2017, 12:07 PM
sounds bad, haven't even had the time to test/rig mine yet.

some xtra Perception Neuron info here >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDXXFnoDJvU


(sidenote; seems Synertial removed the video i linked)

erikals
10-31-2017, 12:19 PM
strangely, works great in this video >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvqL2LQjBgQ

Surrealist.
10-31-2017, 04:50 PM
Strangely they did not show you any significant shots of the screen while he was moving around. The other full screen stuff they showed you where examples of mocap from other solutions as illustration for the use of expensive mocap. Other stuff was nothing challenging. This is typical of the BS demos out there of the PN suit. They are either doing nothing challenging, like standing in one place and talking or moving arms and legs while in one place. Or like this. What good does it do for use to see this guy using the suit? We need to see the split screen.

Those huge jump glitches as shown in that comparison video whenever the character translates the hip bone are completely real. That is the PN suit in real situations. I have used it quite a lot. I don't mean just played around with it. But I have used it full time for about a couple weeks worth of mocap sessions with myself and actors and an engineer. Eventually we narrowed it down to things we could not do at all. The other capture sessions were full of those slips and slide glitches. It was hell to clean up. And I had to hire an animator for several weeks just to do remove all of that and clean up the other small stuff. And using MotionBuilder which is the best at this.

You will see these glitches any time you can find someone showing you ambulant motion.

Surrealist.
10-31-2017, 04:55 PM
(sidenote; seems Synertial removed the video i linked)

Too bad. That was a revealing test.

Surrealist.
10-31-2017, 05:09 PM
sounds bad, haven't even had the time to test/rig mine yet.

some xtra Perception Neuron info here >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDXXFnoDJvU


Video I would say is fairly accurate. And notice the slipping and sliding at about 12 mins. We handled the malfunction by just shifting the nodes around to different slots. It was random. But we managed. But nothing we did would improve the accuracy of the hip bone. It is a horrible hack they came up with to make this work. You get what you pay for. Also in production you have to recalibrate usually every 2 takes or so. And the hand and feet alignments were always off. That was the first thing I would fix in MotionBuilder. Adding more time, and of course, some of it impossible to correct and we had to hand animate over those parts.

erikals
10-31-2017, 07:53 PM
systems >

$140 - Brekel Pro Body 2 (1 Kinect)
$350/y - iPiSoft (2 Kinect) (-subscription-)
$1000 - Perception Neuron (18 Neuron)
$1500 - Perception Neuron (32 Neuron)
$2500 - Rokoko Smartsuit Pro
$7500 - MotionShadow (17 sensors) ($5000+$2500 subscripition)
€12000 - Synertial IGS-C200
€17000 - Synertial IGS-C320
€26000 - Synertial IGS-C420

PhaseSpace systems ranging up to $250,000




You get what you pay for
yes, it does seem so.
i hope Brekel can work more on his mocap system, and more competition in general arrives.


for others, this thread is a good read >
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?154045-Rokoko-announces-prosumer-mocap-suit


subnote, not bad from iPi >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMuZ3P1FCwk

Surrealist.
10-31-2017, 08:16 PM
Yep. And thanks for researching all of this. I had a client last year who was hot on the trail to sort this all out. We looked at suits and various other solutions including studios. Finally he pulled the trigger and got a PN Suit. He tried it himself and the results where dismal. Finally I convinced him to send it to me so we could sort it all out at the studio. I had a guy with experience as an engineer in a high-end mocap multi-camera studio. We worked together to sort out the issues of the suit and finally after much testing and use, found that there were serious limitations. At the end of the project, the client just gave me the suit. He knew the issues we were having with it and pretty much never wanted to use it again... lol. So now I have one. And I did use it to do some stuff for my project. But the limitations restrict you to simple gestures and keeping the character in place. All other ambulant motions I figured would best be gotten from library data or recording in a studio or using a low cost multi camera set up. So the PN can have its place. With limitations. As long as you know what they are going in.

erikals
10-31-2017, 09:08 PM
my first project (once up) will be a slow robot walking, so i think it should work alright for that. (+cleaning)

for any Ninja moves, Perception Neuron seems not the way to go.  https://i.imgur.com/9QKH4Wq.gif

likewise :) thanks for sharing, would have taken me 20x longer to estimate conclusions if it wasn't for You/Ryan/Greenlaw.

Surrealist.
10-31-2017, 10:00 PM
Cool. Glad I could be of some help.

Seems Ryan has a good handle on the re-targeting stuff. In LightWave that is an area I have not done much work in. But to get the PN suit working you really need to be able to animate additive layers. Did you notice how he said his hand was out of alignment and crossing his crotch? And also passing through his head. This is common. And to correct that you need to be able to animate an additive layer for the hand or feet. To offset it. I am not sure how to do that with Motion Mixer.

I would normally turn to MotionBuilder for that. So this is just FYI.

Maybe I should record a video to show what I mean.

erikals
10-31-2017, 10:29 PM
MotionBuilder is a few dollars, so probably will use RHiggit for fixing mocap >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PgNXjHJTv4

Surrealist.
10-31-2017, 10:54 PM
Yeah I think that gives you a good starting point. And even some editing capability. So it is not bad. So it might work for you. I am going to guess though that you will find the need to animate on the controller additively rather than just make a global adjustment. That requires animation layers. Of course you can do further clean up at the key frame level in the Graph Editor.

But another option might also be Maya LT as it also has the HIK system for rigging and animation layers. You could import your FBX retarget to a rig, clean up, use correction layers and then bake and export the result back into LightWave.

Some of the same basic tools as MotionBuilder but on a budget. ;)

erikals
10-31-2017, 11:08 PM
$60 - OD Toolset provides LW animation layers also, however haven't gotten around to test it...


• Create Animation Layers:
This lets you add an animation layer for an item.
This is extremely useful for mocap data that you might want to add additional animation on,
without loosing the original data. Simply add an animation layer, and add additional animation as needed.
Works great for Characters but also just standard objects.
In order to see changes in realtime, you need to enable the Virtual Studio Live State Toggle in your LW Menus.

i might have another look at Maya in the future if they improve the SFX side, for now though it is all Houdini over here.



https://vimeo.com/115017752

Surrealist.
10-31-2017, 11:45 PM
Yeah that should work for most stuff. A little clunky but it will get you there. I think you at least need this to do mocap clean up.

erikals
10-31-2017, 11:53 PM
yep. btw, lack of animation layers was one of the things The Embassy complained about when doing Iron Man :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxNHBQdYi78

erikals
11-09-2017, 01:40 PM
Perception Neuron mocap data Cleanup >    (35 minutes into video)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTLqkqjfy64