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jeric_synergy
10-20-2017, 12:01 PM
Anyone have any tips on using AE-Mocha with LW?

I know zip about mocha as of this morning, but will be inserting starfields into handheld camera shot of 'windows'.

Spinland
10-20-2017, 12:13 PM
I use Mocha Pro a crap ton for work; if you're using it to get tracking data then the usual workflow is track in Mocha, then transfer that data into AE, usually onto a null layer. From there it should just be your typical LW/AE interchange. Let me scare up a video on transferring track data into AE. Be back in a few.

Spinland
10-20-2017, 12:15 PM
https://youtu.be/pvsbEYeKNTY

That channel has a lot of other great Mocha tips, too. Hope that helps! :jam:

jeric_synergy
10-20-2017, 12:45 PM
Thanks man: at this end I'm hitting the 'books', but right now confused: while this is an AE plugin, the dox seem to expect one would be using a stand-alone program....

Raffle-winning software-- it always seems to be more confusing than s/w you purchase! (I also won Plexus3.) :ohmy:

Spinland
10-20-2017, 01:04 PM
There are two editions—three depending on how you view it. There is a standalone version, and two plugin versions (one that comes with AE and a more powerful one that's identical to the standalone except it's integrated into your host app). The functionality of the pro versions is roughly identical apart from the integration. Not sure about the free version that comes with AE but it ought to be similar enough to extrapolate to.

Spinland
10-20-2017, 03:32 PM
Raffle, eh? Cool! I bought the AE plugin version of Pro a version or two back and got a license for the standalone at no extra cost when i did a version upgrade. I have the standalone on my laptop as an emergency stopgap so I can at least open Mocha-enabled files, but trying to do anything serious on the laptop would only end in sorrow. ;D

djwaterman
10-20-2017, 07:47 PM
I recently became a bit of an expert with Mocha for a bunch of shots for a movie I had to work my way through, I was using the version that comes with AE, basically you have the movie clip open in AE, then go up to the Animation menu and chose Track in mocha. When Mocha opens you then decide what type of tracking you are going to do, you want to go to YouTube and find all the tutes and find one that corresponds to what it is you are doing. I'm not sure you even need LW for your situation if it is only starfields, but that's your call.

The other thing you need to know about if your doing film work is you don't want to be doing any sort of color space in After Effects, so that the clip comes in and gets processed and has had no color space changes or grading or what not. So you need a free utility called Open Color IO (http://opencolorio.org/), this will allow you to use an adjustment layer that sits on top of your comp and effectively color grades/compresses the color space so you can see how the final thing would look after color grading and you can correctly adjust your comped elements to match the original, but importantly this adjustment layer won't actually render so your output color space will be the same as the original clip, and they can give it to the color grader and there won't be any problems. Open Color IO is the best and simplest solution for After Effects I've found and it means you can avoid the messy and confusing color space set-up in After Effects completely.

jeric_synergy
10-21-2017, 12:23 AM
Valuable info, dj. THANKS.

m.d.
10-30-2017, 08:37 PM
Been using mocha for years....heavy production.

It is more of a 2d effects tracker....not really for 3d transfer to LW...but for corner pin and spline transfer to compositing.
Although you can export a Null from AE to LW you are only getting 2d positions on that null from Mocha.

There has been a 3d tracker built into pro for a few years....but it doesn't really give the most predictable results. You transfer FBX out of that for 3d.

The 3d track doesn't really attempt a physically accurate solve....focal length could be anything. It just tries to satisfy the conditions and spit out something usable.

It could be useful...but I would stick with a dedicated 3d tracker for LW export, I have never had great results from mochas 3d track. Even AE's 3d tracker will be better.

As a planar tracker for compositing....it works great...hard to beat actually.

Spinland
11-01-2017, 03:14 AM
Yeah; for what it does Mocha Pro is up there near the top of the heap but I fully agree the use cases wrt LW work are niche and limited. For serious 3D tracking I'd use SynthEyes, personally.

ianr
11-01-2017, 09:11 AM
Yeah; for what it does Mocha Pro is up there near the top of the heap but I fully agree the use cases wrt LW work are niche and limited. For serious 3D tracking I'd use SynthEyes, personally.


Yep, DiTTO 4 Spinnies Comment.

But keep an eye on Fusion 9.1 future updates with their built in new one,

in finessing their tracker, in this (time solve speed-ups)

Ma3rk
11-01-2017, 09:47 PM
Finally had a shot for a documentary I've been working on that couldn't be done any other way than with Mocha Pro. Well, maybe with SynthEyes, but I knew Mocha could definitely do it. Tried to see if I could do a remove "manually" in Photoshop, and quickly saw that simply wasn't gonna work.

I'm still a bit suspicious though that Imagineer Systems just happened to have a upgrade sale that week.

Anyway, the producer won't let me post anything yet, but I can describe the shot at least. The source was hand held 8mm color negative. I received it as an HD rez Prorez file, rendered as a positive so no masking color but no correction either. The shot itself is of an old steam locomotive emerging out of the thick forest into a clearing and pans L-R. Total length ~ 22 secs. About two seconds in, a little red car comes in from the left of frame on a curved road, but there's also a few fence posts between car and camera as it turns and exits frame left as well. Overall, a little over 100 frames with the car.

The tasks: Remove the car, stabilize the shot, and time stretch ~ 25%.

So along with Mocha and now Pro standalone version, I use the marvelous Mamoworld tool MochaImport Plus. I'm still with CS6 and the plug-in version of Mocha isn't supported or at least discouraged. From what I can tell, the plug-in version is mostly a matter of convenience & would be nice to have but functionally the end results are the same.

Spinland
11-02-2017, 03:58 AM
Cool stuff! I'm under similar wraps from the producer of this feature film project but I can also share a typical scene where I use Mocha Pro:

Gangster was just hit by a car, and the car that took him out pulls back, drives around him and then out of the scene. The camera is drone-mounted and the entire sequence is a slow zoom as the drone climbs vertically while centered on the body.

The issue is because of traffic and safety issues the actor is right near the curb, and the moving car is positioned accordingly, as is the drone's center of interest. My job is to move all of the action into a center lane of the street, and remove any cars that would interfere with the sequence. The task involves doing moving object removes against an asphalt surface that is constantly changing in color shade as well as texture resolution because of the drone's ascent, as well as compositing the elements back into place, color matching the background footage, and I'm also adding some frills like some of the removed cars are now actually animated so they change lanes to avoid the body and one slows and stops short of it. I also have to shift the background footage so the center of focus is where it should be, which involves adding in new content along the lower edge of the frame to fill in the resulting gap.

Without Mocha Pro I have no idea how I'd do all that; with it I'll be delivering the scene today after less than a week of work.

jeric_synergy
11-02-2017, 11:09 AM
Huh. I'm even less competent than I thought, since I have no idea how one would approach that.

m.d.
11-02-2017, 12:32 PM
Cool stuff! I'm under similar wraps from the producer of this feature film project but I can also share a typical scene where I use Mocha Pro:

Gangster was just hit by a car, and the car that took him out pulls back, drives around him and then out of the scene. The camera is drone-mounted and the entire sequence is a slow zoom as the drone climbs vertically while centered on the body.

The issue is because of traffic and safety issues the actor is right near the curb, and the moving car is positioned accordingly, as is the drone's center of interest. My job is to move all of the action into a center lane of the street, and remove any cars that would interfere with the sequence. The task involves doing moving object removes against an asphalt surface that is constantly changing in color shade as well as texture resolution because of the drone's ascent, as well as compositing the elements back into place, color matching the background footage, and I'm also adding some frills like some of the removed cars are now actually animated so they change lanes to avoid the body and one slows and stops short of it. I also have to shift the background footage so the center of focus is where it should be, which involves adding in new content along the lower edge of the frame to fill in the resulting gap.

Without Mocha Pro I have no idea how I'd do all that; with it I'll be delivering the scene today after less than a week of work.

The remove module simplifies things that's for sure.

The other way is a 3d track...and in fusion using the UV render to reverse project your shot's planes into a 2d texture...then painted out/cloned over a stabilized UV projection.


A shot I had to do was replace the tail marking on an F15 doing a flyby at 200MPH.
I shot this as well and was about 150ft away on the grass while it did the flyby over the runway.....so an extremely fast pan to keep up....the shot had the f15 occupying about 10-25% of a 4k frame following it until it was about a 10 pixel dot....
Had to track and roto the tail the whole way, as it was visible the entire shot (maybe 15 seconds)
There is no other software that could have tracked this with this much motion blur involved....Mocha was the only thing even remotely capable.
There were portions of the shot where the motion blur made the shape so stretched, semi transparent and unrecognizable that no other tracker would lock on.
Mocha somehow managed and it also passed the motion blur values nicely to AE.

jeric_synergy
11-02-2017, 01:12 PM
... if it's that stretched and MB'd, how legible would a logo be??

m.d.
11-02-2017, 05:53 PM
... if it's that stretched and MB'd, how legible would a logo be??

when it was panning in sync it was fine...maybe for 3-4 seconds.

Philbert
07-24-2018, 05:43 PM
I've been given a copy of Mocha Pro Standalone in order to make some video tutorials on it. I don't have After Effects sadly it won't connect to HitFilm Express, only HitFilm Pro. The first thing I wanted to do with it was done 3D tracking and import to LightWave. It did sort of work the camera loaded and moved the right way but it doesn't know where the ground is so it doesn't work. I just ended up making tutorials on things it can do, ain't images too vital and removing things from video. I'm thinking of doing one next on adding video to a tablet screen.