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EyelandArts.com
03-07-2003, 11:09 AM
This is my first attempt at fake sss with the new gradient. This is a lot of fun!

EyelandArts.com
03-07-2003, 02:17 PM
And another test.

Matt
03-07-2003, 02:20 PM
cool, it seems to work then! I've got it to do something but not as dramatic as your green thingy! what settings did you use if you don't mind me asking?

EyelandArts.com
03-07-2003, 02:28 PM
The most important things are that you use double sided and aparently you might have to turn on ray trace transparency. besides that, im using it on the luminosity and color channels as well as an additional luminosity channel with distance to light.
I also have radiosity turned on very low rays for some added fill.
render is only about a minute without the depth of field and about three with.
Ill Zip these up later and post the link.
Alex

GruvSyco
03-07-2003, 02:53 PM
Not a criticism at all both pics look great but, I think the effect looks better on the first one. From a photorealistic point of view, the second pic shoes no refraction which would happen through water like that. Nonetheless, cool stuff and thanks for sharing :)

oxyg3n
03-07-2003, 04:32 PM
Hello All,

I was wondering how you go about faking sss with graditents, I have not heard of doing this before?

brtk
03-07-2003, 08:27 PM
I think he used the new surface thickness gradient new in 7.5b...

EyelandArts.com
03-07-2003, 08:49 PM
Yep, thats right. Thickness gradient. Very nice feature.
GruvSyco, Thanks! The bottom pic does have refraction but because I used only a singlepoly to test with little bump, it doesnt do much. Im doing one now with subdivided water and refraction blurring. Looks great but very heavy to render.

sidewing
03-07-2003, 10:36 PM
WOuld love to see the settings...

Have you tried skin? Skin is one of the hardest things to "fake".

Thanks,

John

Murphy
03-08-2003, 01:39 AM
(^_^;) Well I have to say it looks great but...

(Please don't think I'm a pedant for asking) what is sss? and what are the benafits of faking it?

Murphy

EyelandArts.com
03-08-2003, 09:53 AM
sss stands for sub-surface scatering or the amount a ray of light will penetrate and spread after it hits the surface of an object. The new gradient is very well suited for adding colorization and transparency subtleties to transparent surfaces. For more opaque surfaces its a little bit trickier.

Sidewing:
Skin is definitely on my to do list. Ill include it with the zip file is its succesfull.

Alex

sidewing
03-08-2003, 10:41 AM
My limited knowledge in this matter can only dictate:

Sub-Surface-Scattering.

SSS is a real world happening where light bounces INSIDE the material and therefore creates another visual appearance then when this wouldn't happen. You get a warmer quality of the material that appears translucent, slghtly transparent and in some cases even slightly illuminating from behind the camera angle.

SSS will be the short future of 3D animation. It is as important as GLobal illumination, especially when workung with skin, and other organic material.

These are my 23 cents...


John

sidewing
03-08-2003, 10:44 AM
Ok Alex,

You beat me with explanation! While writng you must have submitted the anwer already.

I would love to see your progress on that! I was trying this new Thickness shader and indeed it looks nice. However I didn't get the nice results you did. If you makes skin, please submit it also to Newtek tutorial...

Thanks again!

John

NanoGator
03-09-2003, 12:12 PM
@ EyelandArts.com: you gave me some inspiration for how to use that surface density gradient tool... :) Thanks!

Rory_L
03-11-2003, 02:53 AM
(Please don't think I'm a pedant for asking) what is sss? and what are the benafits of faking it?
Sexually Stimulated Satisfaction. The benefits? Ask a woman! :D

R

EyelandArts.com
03-11-2003, 10:01 AM
LOL, you guys have dirty minds!

Nanogator: Wonderfull! Do show us when you are done!

I couldnt keep my hands off this render so here is an update. Ill try my hand at skin now. Post here if it works ok.

DragonAngel
03-11-2003, 11:54 AM
Much better Alex!

Care to share your settings?And how did you do those bushes/trees?

Anything, please!!!!!

sidewing
03-11-2003, 12:43 PM
I checked out your web-site EyelandArts. Really amazing work you have!

I also would love to get the settings for the first image. Have you tried more to mimic skin?

Great new image you made. Looks so much better. Now a helicopter and its done.

John

EyelandArts.com
03-12-2003, 09:06 AM
Hey thanks guys! Im zipping the scenes up and posting it here later after I include the skin if succesfull. bare in mind that because its faked sss it has its limitations to the real thing. In the meantime, a little info.
The bushes are volume hypervoxels.
The gradient works incredibly well for oceans because natural coastline formations create acute angles with the water. This allows you to create waves on a proximity to coastline basis. In other words, the gradiet calculates the shallower coastline until depth equals zero. If you wanted to, you could use this to create breaking waves aproximating the coast.
As to the first image, it uses both a surface thickness gradient for luminosity and color as well as a proximity gradient to the key light. Because the surface thickness gradient calculates thickness based on camera angle, its very fast but will have problems with overlapping surfaces. i.e Ears on a character.
Using it with radiosity, will help minimize this somewhat.

Anywho, thanks for the comments!

Nigel
03-12-2003, 10:24 AM
Wow, great stuff Alex

This new feature seems to have opened up quite a few possibilities for us.

Thanks for exploring some of them and sharing with us, I'm sure we will all benefit from it.

I love those islands ... or are they eyelands :)
sorry, couldn't resist.

Kuzey
03-12-2003, 05:40 PM
Man....that's wonderful!!

Can't wait to play with those :p

Kuzey

HowardM
03-12-2003, 08:00 PM
Alex!
Wow incredible stuff!

PLEASE make a tutorial on how to make lapping , breaking waves, and all of this? Your HVs look great, how are you making them shrink as they get close to the coasts?!

EyelandArts.com
03-17-2003, 02:28 PM
Hi guys!
Thanks for all the enthusiasm. Im sorry I wasnt able to get back earlier but here it is finally. The zip file contains a few uses for the new gradient which you might find interesting. Bare in mind you will need 7.5b (obviously) and the first image in the thread will ask for sasquatch full. If you dont have it, dont worry its not absolutely necessary to get the gist of the gradient. I also didnt intend to realese these files when I started so they are a bit messy (sorry). I am of course always around if you have a question.

About the skin. The obvious limitations are most noticable around
the nasal cavities becouse of overlap. The effects of these could be minimized with a lot of tweaking between the diffuse channel and additive transparency but probably at some other cost like shadow strength as in the first image of the thread.

All in all, its a great little feature with little overhead.

www.eyelandarts.com/Thickness.zip (http://www.eyelandarts.com/Thickness.zip)

Have fun! :)

Murphy
03-17-2003, 02:57 PM
WOW !!!

That is realy REALY nice.

I think when i get the time i will have to get the 7.5b update and have a go of this new surface gradient

Keep up the good work

Murphy ^_^

sidewing
03-29-2003, 01:19 PM
Thanks so much for this file Eyelandsart!

Very nice and usefull

John

Matt
03-31-2003, 02:28 AM
Cheers matey, very useful stuff!

:)

antwik-2
09-15-2004, 06:34 PM
Thanks alot Alex Friderici
This helpt me out when i was going to use translucent on a plant. I didnt have the right scale, the translucent ramp/gradiant seems to be very kinky about the scale. Wrong scale and you dont seem to get any result at all.

thanks!

Thomas M.
09-16-2004, 04:06 AM
Nice stuff! It's always good to have somebody playing around with this stuff. Hopefully there'll be some decent SSS around for LW soon. Ogo is probably the only working thing, although I haven't tried it out yet by myself. G2 is kinda nice, but is no real SSS either. It just fakes it and in most cases this might be good enough, but have a shadow or two on your object and you'll see what I mean. Surfaces thickness is kinda nice to play around with especially if you use it not only in transparency, but also in Diffuse and color channels.

Keep on trying!

Cheers
THomas

LAV
09-16-2004, 04:34 AM
Sub Surface Scattering. I think it means "to simulate the penetration and the bouncing of light rays into materials". You can imagine: in the front of the object stands the camera. A lamp is on the other side of the object The light, obviously, doesn't reach the surface you are looking where the thickness of the obj is so great. The rays can penetrate the edges, where the thickness is small. SSS gives you a very realistic gradient of increasing light from center to edges. Wax, flesh, skin, organic materials at all... glasses etc.

To simulate? LW has not (yet) a native SSS rendering engine. It's a pity.

It's a great job to get a faked SSS in LW.


-------------------------

LW is a zen way to improve my doubtfully english (reading and re-reading... I don't guess if words are exactly what I mean)

LAV
09-16-2004, 04:37 AM
OOOPSSSSS!
Sorry! I write my first post supposing there are not a second page of replies!

OOOOOOOPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSSS!

antwik-2
09-16-2004, 05:30 AM
I did a flower to explore if i could fake SSS,

how do you thik it worked?

(texture that i used except transluceny is diffuse, bump a tiny blurred reflections and transparent map)

http://www.antonw.com/jpgcopys/flowa3.JPG

LAV
09-16-2004, 06:43 AM
Eyelands,
my compliments.
Antwik-2.
would you explain a little closer? Really great!

oxyg3n
09-16-2004, 01:02 PM
Your flowers look nice,

Can you explain in more detail how you used the surface thickness gradient?

Thanks

EyelandArts.com
09-16-2004, 01:24 PM
Wow, this thread resurected out of nowhere. Cool. A link to my files is on the second page and the link still works if anyone is curious.

antwik-2
09-16-2004, 03:34 PM
EyelandArts.com ya this is a great thread, thanks for starting it!
Well i used the same scale like EyelandArts.com have on his modell. And almost the same kind of ramp/gradiant. When i first tried i didnt get the scale right. so i used the same grid size that EyelandArts.com have in his scene.

The transluceny give that little extra to the flowers.

But i guess most of the looks come from the modelling and the texturing. I got one map for color, one map for diffuse a tiny blurred reflection and a bump map. I also mapped a texture to the transparent channel to get the outline of the flowers a little transparent.

I will do some tweaking and upload more renders later.

Grettings!

antwik-2
09-17-2004, 08:02 AM
I got a question for you
EyelandArts.com
you got a red color gradient mapped to your color channel in your nose scene.
Does it have to be a gradient like that to get the translucency?
Or can i use a image texture (at the color channel)

Cyberfish_Fred
12-21-2014, 01:51 AM
please can you add the thickness.zip again? its gone!

Skonk
12-21-2014, 06:56 AM
10 year old thread is 10 years old...

stiff paper
12-21-2014, 07:20 AM
please can you add the thickness.zip again? its gone!
I don't know what you're trying to do, but page 2 of this thread has some tips on thickness with water:
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?113521-Sand-Castle-XL

(But, yeah, not much hope of getting hold of that attachment now. The thread started in early 2003...)

Cyberfish_Fred
12-21-2014, 07:52 AM
those days........

Was looking for a fake sss solution........

jasonwestmas
12-21-2014, 08:33 AM
Fake? It's all fake, but calculating the light rays bouncing around inside of a material is not going to be simple, especially if you want the material to be animated. You could try Chanlum as a possible speedier solution:

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?132674-LW_ChanLum-Update-(LW11-Fix-2-New-Features)&highlight=chanlum

What kind of material do you want to render SSS with anyway? There are a lot of LW SSS shaders out there. Another more simple setup are the Kappa shaders that are older and native to LW.

Cyberfish_Fred
12-21-2014, 08:54 AM
Fake? It's all fake, but calculating the light rays bouncing around inside of a material is not going to be simple, especially if you want the material to be animated. You could try Chanlum as a possible speedier solution:

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?132674-LW_ChanLum-Update-(LW11-Fix-2-New-Features)&highlight=chanlum

What kind of material do you want to render SSS with anyway? There are a lot of LW SSS shaders out there. Another more simple setup are the Kappa shaders that are older and native to LW.

I want to render some organic molecule meshes, works great with a sss2 shader, even when cloning the heavy mesh 10 times works okay. But if you wan to use instances and sss2 then it really sucks. I never had my computer soooo slow. Try it.

3DGFXStudios
12-21-2014, 09:10 AM
I just made some popcorn animations with sss and instances and I've to say the radiosity is a bit slow but in the end it didn't take that long to render. I used the Sigma material. I'm not sure if it was the normal sigma or the sigma two but it's the one with the advanced shading check box. (not at work at the moment)

jasonwestmas
12-21-2014, 09:45 AM
I want to render some organic molecule meshes, works great with a sss2 shader, even when cloning the heavy mesh 10 times works okay. But if you wan to use instances and sss2 then it really sucks. I never had my computer soooo slow. Try it.

It is possible that the older 9.x shaders aren't compatable with the LW11 instancing features. The SSS diffuse shaders use a preprocessing calculation that makes it kinda useless for more advanced things. I would definitely try the new skin material that was added to the LW11 upgrade. It's called "skin" not fast skin and not simple skin lol. The skin material isn't a cheap node to render but it's more modern than the others so it might work with instancing, but I haven't tried.

jasonwestmas
12-21-2014, 09:53 AM
I just made some popcorn animations with sss and instances and I've to say the radiosity is a bit slow but in the end it didn't take that long to render. I used the Sigma material. I'm not sure if it was the normal sigma or the sigma two but it's the one with the advanced shading check box. (not at work at the moment)

Probably the original sigma since I would guess that it is the preprocess in sigma 2 would cause problems with instancing.

3DGFXStudios
12-21-2014, 12:13 PM
Probably the original sigma since I would guess that it is the preprocess in sigma 2 would cause problems with instancing.

Yup the one without preprocess is the one I used.