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Alopex
10-16-2017, 07:06 AM
Hello!
I had Lightwave working fine on my computer but after an Windows 10 upgrade I could no longer work in Layout (modeller still works). The screen starts blinking of just gets unusable and I have to reboot or log out. I thought this had something to do with the graphic driver so I rolled it back but the problem remained. I use a Sapphire Radeon RX 580 Nitro+ 2xHDMI 2xDP 4GB and a MSI X370 AM4 AT mother board. Other 3d programs work, I only have this problem with Lightwave.
Best,
Alopex

Lito
10-16-2017, 07:30 AM
I can confirm layout 2015.3 works in Windows 10 for me. It might be one of your layout plugins that is the cause if modeler still works. I'd try temporarily removing all third party plugins first (if you keep them in a dedicated folder just move the folder to the desktop) then try loading up Layout.

Alopex
10-16-2017, 07:36 AM
That will roll back my settings to using the mother boards graphics. That does not work either now. I don't know why it worked before. With rolled back drivers Layout will crash as soon as I do anything and if I update the interface becomes useless or the screen starts flickering.

Alopex
10-16-2017, 08:16 AM
I managed to download an older driver for the graphic card but it is still the same :/

gar26lw
10-16-2017, 08:25 AM
hmm, not had this one but always on nvidia. i would try rmb on lw shortcut- properties -set to windows compatibility. see if that helps.

if no luck, delete the cfgs.always worth a shot. if it good and you have a motherboard gfx chip, try taking out the gfxcard, boot and see if that fixes it. if it does it’s def the card/drivers.

Greenlaw
10-16-2017, 08:30 AM
I checked mine and Layout is working fine here. This is on a Wacom Cintiq Companion 2 running the recent Win 10 update. No Radeon graphics though, Intel Iris 6100. I could check my workstation but it has Nvidia, and I'm not sure it got the Windows 10 update yet. Will check tonight anyway.

If it happened here though, I would try backing up my settings, and rebuilding the defaults from scratch running only vanilla LW plugins. If that doesn't work, try re-installing LightWave. If it does work, you'll need to figure out which plugin has become either incompatible or gotten corrupted.

jperk
10-16-2017, 09:31 AM
I'm glad someone mentioned this. LW2015.3 works fine in Win10 for me. However does anyone ever encounter the following problem, when I select a point and tap "T" on keyboard to move sometimes the point moves drastically away (jumps shark) from where I want it. It's like a glitch or something. I mean it's not a big deal because I just select the point again and move it back in place.

beverins
10-16-2017, 09:37 AM
pretty much all the suggestions I'm writing have been made already, but this is the order in which I'd try them.

1) restore your drivers to the latest versions. If offered, go for a clean install of these drivers (Nvidia has this, I don't know about AMD installers).
2) If LW still doesn't work, try backing up and removing the lightwave configuration files, as well as move any 3rd party plugins out of the repository folder so they don't attempt to autoload
3) If LW still doesn't work, shut the computer down and try removing the video card. Use the built-in video (if offered) and see if that changes anything. You could also attempt to remove the video card driver entirely at this point.

If it still doesn't work at this point then it is some new config or update in Windows 10 that is causing the problem. Microsoft's latest annoyance is resetting some options to their defaults whenever you receive an update. As a quick check, try running a utility called https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 O&O Shut Up with all features ON to see if that does anything to help.

Chris S. (Fez)
10-16-2017, 11:06 AM
I'm glad someone mentioned this. LW2015.3 works fine in Win10 for me. However does anyone ever encounter the following problem, when I select a point and tap "T" on keyboard to move sometimes the point moves drastically away (jumps shark) from where I want it. It's like a glitch or something. I mean it's not a big deal because I just select the point again and move it back in place.

Assuming you are using a mouse, make sure you do not have "tablet" input selected in the general options. If you are using a tablet then make sure "tablet" is selected instead of mouse.

Lito
10-16-2017, 11:14 AM
Oh yeah one thing else to try, reinstall LW and all the drivers and libraries it needs. When I built my new rig, I brought over my old HDD and tried running LW from the directory and it didn't work it always ran in discovery mode even after I dropped in the license file. It didn't correct itself till I actually reinstalled LW. It's not exactly the same issue you are having but maybe it'll help. The "upgrade" to Win 10 just brings your files over but some installation of libraries might not. For example things like dot.NET 3.5 framework wasn't installed by default and I had to enable it for some other programs to run.

rustythe1
10-16-2017, 12:30 PM
Assuming you are using a mouse, make sure you do not have "tablet" input selected in the general options. If you are using a tablet then make sure "tablet" is selected instead of mouse.

actually selecting tablet mode will stop this effect, however it will give you another bunch of problems, its caused by the windows tablet mode, there is a whole thread on it somewhere, its worse if you have a Wacom installed,
the main problem with tablet mode is if you click and drag on a button, such as the navigation icons your mouse would usually stay in position, but in tablet mode it moves until it hits the edge of the screen and then stops doing the drag motion, so you can only tumble the display a few deg before hitting the edge and having to move the mouse back to the button

- - - Updated - - -


Oh yeah one thing else to try, reinstall LW and all the drivers and libraries it needs. When I built my new rig, I brought over my old HDD and tried running LW from the directory and it didn't work it always ran in discovery mode even after I dropped in the license file. It didn't correct itself till I actually reinstalled LW. It's not exactly the same issue you are having but maybe it'll help. The "upgrade" to Win 10 just brings your files over but some installation of libraries might not. For example things like dot.NET 3.5 framework wasn't installed by default and I had to enable it for some other programs to run.

possibly problems with the directx etc too

Chris S. (Fez)
10-16-2017, 05:18 PM
Ahhh. Ringing a bell. Apologies for the bogus info. My LW workstation is Windows 7...I insisted on 7 when they built it because it was battle-tested with LW and Adobe apps.

Sounds frustrating. How about a patch Newtek? Next is gonna be great but how about supporting the software you sell?

Alopex
10-19-2017, 02:55 AM
Removing the graphic card and putting it back actually worked after a while. But now it is the same again. Layout starts but the interface is frozen. I can't even shut it down from Task Manager. There is a floating window with "Render Q" in the interface, I don't know what it is or if it has anything to do with the crash.

gar26lw
10-19-2017, 03:45 AM
try turning off uac in registry. was stopping me drag dropping images. might be an issue here too.

Greenlaw
10-19-2017, 08:51 AM
There is a floating window with "Render Q" in the interface, I don't know what it is or if it has anything to do with the crash.
Render Queue is the native batch renderer. It can be very useful when you don't have network rendering and don't want to use SN. (I sometimes use it when the farm is too busy and I'm about to take my lunch break.)

If you just close the window, it will pop open again the next time you launch Layout.

To close it and make it stay closed, click the Launch/Open button under Render > Render-Q. You can also close it from Master Plugins.

As for the graphics card problem, could it be a driver issue?

rustythe1
10-20-2017, 05:22 PM
just to point out, Speed edit users are just starting to report a similar bug after the recent fall/creator update also, so it looks like it could indeed be a UI incompatibility with the new GPU changes in windows, in the update they added tools for tracking and monitoring GPU performance, and also laid ground work for vendors to be able to set GPU affinities and I think there was even talk of being able to share GPU/CPU architecture, (I have noticed there are threads here and there where octane has broken on single card set ups and have indeed noticed that my GPU usage has gone from 1000 and 500 to 1200 and 1100 on my respected cards in normal empty desktop mode) so it looks like it could be windows restricting the amount of Vram older apps are being allowed to call for

Ron Schatz
10-20-2017, 06:13 PM
Oh, not any of the above, My laptop had the same thing, real hard to work in LW, (modeler.exe Properties Compatibility Settings Override high DPI.....) now it works normal, (things to watch, windows 10 has different permissions for writing to systems folders, Lwcad would always crash until I changed some folder paths)

cre8ive
10-20-2017, 07:35 PM
Since the recent Windows 10 creator update, lasso select (right-click + drag) in Modeller stopped working for me.

I use a Wacom MobileStudioPro 16.

Aww167
10-20-2017, 08:13 PM
I have noticed there are threads here and there where octane has broken on single card set ups and have indeed noticed that my GPU usage has gone from 1000 and 500 to 1200 and 1100 on my respected cards in normal empty desktop mode) so it looks like it could be windows restricting the amount of Vram older apps are being allowed to call for

I have a quadro K5200 which runs nicely in Win 7 with LW & Octane - not as fast as newer cards obviously but it does everything I need, but on upgrading to Win 10 it wouldn't work with Octane at all, neither the plugin nor standalone; render failures every time. It rendered in LW ok but LW itself was getting critical errors on my machine so often, it wasn't worth continuing with it. Having gone back to Win 7 everything now running as smoothly as ever.

rustythe1
10-21-2017, 03:24 AM
problem with windows 7 is Microsoft have forced manufactures to stop producing drivers etc for it as they want everyone to move to 10, so if you ever upgrade your pc parts or pc itself you cant go back to 7 without issues, lots of stories of Microsoft purposely breaking elements of win 7 to force users away from it and also not adding support for newer chipsets, maybe people need to start bug reports as technically LW wasn't developed for win10 as I think the last version pre dates it, so Microsoft is gradually breaking functionality, its clear the problems are UI/GPU related, is this being addressed in LWnext?

Norka
10-21-2017, 06:02 AM
I haven't read any of this, but in case you guys are not aware, MS will be releasing Windows 10 For Workstations in this quarter. So it could be any day now...

https://blogs.windows.com/business/2017/08/10/microsoft-announces-windows-10-pro-workstations/#dQcLhu68lQcSKDEW.97

gar26lw
10-21-2017, 06:16 AM
Since the recent Windows 10 creator update, lasso select (right-click + drag) in Modeller stopped working for me.

I use a Wacom MobileStudioPro 16.

Yeesh, that's really bad :(

rustythe1
10-21-2017, 06:29 AM
I haven't read any of this, but in case you guys are not aware, MS will be releasing Windows 10 For Workstations in this quarter. So it could be any day now...

https://blogs.windows.com/business/2017/08/10/microsoft-announces-windows-10-pro-workstations/#dQcLhu68lQcSKDEW.97

What they didn't mention is that server/corporate versions, possibly including this one are now going Subscription based

Lito
10-21-2017, 07:25 AM
What they didn't mention is that server/corporate versions, possibly including this one are now going Subscription based
AFAIK Win 10 Pro for Workstations will not be subscription based, but pricing will be based on the number of cores you have and no longer based on how many physical CPU chips you have. Anything with more than 4 cores will cost you more...
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-may-have-price-increases-in-store-for-windows-10-pro-workstation-win-10-downgrade/

gar26lw
10-21-2017, 07:32 AM
Yeah, I don't see value.

rustythe1
10-21-2017, 08:01 AM
Yeah, I don't see value.

unless you want a xeon, opteron, I9 or threadripper, as I get the impression they are doing the same as they have done to windows 7 and making it a requirement of all future hardware on those platforms will only run on that version of windows (or at least correctly)

ianr
10-21-2017, 09:08 AM
problem with windows 7 is Microsoft have forced manufactures to stop producing drivers etc for it as they want everyone to move to 10, so if you ever upgrade your pc parts or pc itself you cant go back to 7 without issues, lots of stories of Microsoft purposely breaking elements of win 7 to force users away from it and also not adding support for newer chipsets, maybe people need to start bug reports as technically LW wasn't developed for win10 as I think the last version pre dates it, so Microsoft is gradually breaking functionality, its clear the problems are UI/GPU related, is this being addressed in LWnext?

Well ,Well, If Mr.Bishop @ Notts did say GPU, which he did btw, then they (LW3DG) are on it ,not because they (LW3DG) stated previously ' No GPU in next release' (LW NeXT).

But now because they have to because the Win 10 scenerio above, forces their hand to implement before launch is A WIN-WIN for all I Hope. A small positive surely.

hrgiger
10-21-2017, 09:44 AM
Well ,Well, If Mr.Bishop @ Notts did say GPU, which he did btw, then they (LW3DG) are on it ,not because they (LW3DG) stated previously ' No GPU in next release' (LW NeXT).

But now because they have to because the Win 10 scenerio above, forces their hand to implement before launch is A WIN-WIN for all I Hope. A small positive surely.

There is no gpu rendering in LW Next It has been stated many times. Matt came in and clarified.

Greenlaw
10-21-2017, 11:02 AM
Since the recent Windows 10 creator update, lasso select (right-click + drag) in Modeller stopped working for me.

I use a Wacom MobileStudioPro 16.

Right-click drag for lasso works here. Using Wacom Cintiq Companion 2 Enhanced with the Win 10 Creative Update:

138350

What's the graphics chipset for the MobileStudioPro? My Companion's is Iris Graphics 6100 and I get the latest drivers from Intel's site. There was also a software update from Wacom recently...maybe that was for the Windows update? Just a guess.

BTW, for anybody wondering if they have the Creative Update installed, here's how to check:

1. Press Windows + R.

2. Type 'winver' and open the app.

3. In the window that pops up, if you see “Version 1703” with “OS Build 15063.xxx”, then the Windows 10 Creators Update is installed.

cre8ive
10-21-2017, 02:04 PM
Right-click drag for lasso works here. Using Wacom Cintiq Companion 2 Enhanced with the Win 10 Creative Update:

138350

What's the graphics chipset for the MobileStudioPro? My Companion's is Iris Graphics 6100 and I get the latest drivers from Intel's site. There was also a software update from Wacom recently...maybe that was for the Windows update? Just a guess.

BTW, for anybody wondering if they have the Creative Update installed, here's how to check:

1. Press Windows + R.

2. Type 'winver' and open the app.

3. In the window that pops up, if you see “Version 1703” with “OS Build 15063.xxx”, then the Windows 10 Creators Update is installed.

The recent update was just a couple days ago. I have "version 1709" with "OS Build 16299.19". I also updated the Wacom driver as well at the same time. Since then, no lasso-select.:(

Greenlaw
10-21-2017, 03:38 PM
Oh, yikes! Didn't realize you had an even later update. There was a Windows 10 update on my tablet just the other day but it currently says 1703 so maybe that wasn't it. I'll report if I see the problem here.

I better check my workstation...I know Windows 10 was upated there the other day too.

rustythe1
10-21-2017, 04:43 PM
Oh, yikes! Didn't realize you had an even later update. There was a Windows 10 update on my tablet just the other day but it currently says 1703 so maybe that wasn't it. I'll report if I see the problem here.

I better check my workstation...I know Windows 10 was upated there the other day too.

yea, the new update is the "fall creators" not creators from summer, it adds all the new mixed reality features (probably why windows is using more GPU) lots of 3d stuff, and a new look.

gar26lw
10-21-2017, 06:14 PM
Can you roll back the update ?

I have to ask, why would you want the os using more Gpu? Doesn't this just hog resources and potentially slow things down?

cre8ive
10-21-2017, 06:19 PM
Update: Okay, after some tinkering I discovered that this is an issue with Wacom's driver and Pro Pen and Windows 10 and Lightwave not communicating. If I use a mouse with the MobileStudio (using an adapter from USB-C to my old mouse) or using the on screen trackpad with "touch enabled", Right-Click and drag works. It's just a hassle now. Also, I noticed that the pro pen has an overall/lag now when using Lightwave. I guess I will just have to get used to a mouse again.

rustythe1
10-22-2017, 10:03 AM
ok, interesting, today I got the 1709 version, after reading that they had recalled the update because of problems and a new one went out this week, everything seems good so far, when the system restarted I had to disable SLI on my nvida as multi display would work but now, both of my cards are running exactly 135 all the time in desktop mode, they have never run that low since I put the machine together, so i would say they have fixed GPU issues, so it might be worth rolling back your updates, then to a diskclean, make sure you do the system one to delete all downloaded updates, then do a manual check for the update to re download the latest version.

Greenlaw
10-22-2017, 10:54 AM
Thanks for the info. I checked after I read your post and 1709 started downloading to my Wacom tablet computer. After it's done, I'll report back about what happens in Modeler here.

Greenlaw
10-22-2017, 03:14 PM
Okay, here's what happened. Windows 10 upate finished, checked Winver and I now have 1709 installed.

As before in Modeler, right-click with mouse went into Lasso mode like it's supposed to. But just like cre8ive, the right-click mode with a Wacom Pro stylus did not work.

Next I went into the Wacom Tablet Properties panel, clicked on the Calibrate tab and disabled Windows Ink. Now the right-click button works in Modeler.

The catch is, of course, this disables Windows Ink compatibility with the stylus if that's important to you. It seemed like I needed Windows Ink enabled for some 2D drawing or animation program I used recently but I can't remember what that was right now. (I want to say it was Photoshop CC 2017, but can't swear to that.) Before that, I had Windows Ink enabled for a long time. I don't normally use my stylus in Modeler, so I probably never noticed that enabling Windows Ink caused the stylus issue Cre8ive ran into with Modeler.

If you had Windows Ink disabled before, my guess is that the Windows or the Wacom update turned it back on.

Anyway, give that a try. Good luck! :)

Edit: There was also another update for the Wacom driver today. I don't know if it's necessary for the Win 10 update but I'm guessing it has some compatibility fixes. My current version is 6.3.25-5.

Edit 2: According to Wacom, this option in the Wacom panel enables Press And Hold, which I'm guessing is not supported by Modeler. Probably not a big deal to leave it disabled but I guess it depends on the other apps you use. For now, I'm leaving it off until I run into an app that expects it to be on. Hope this info is helpful.

cre8ive
10-22-2017, 10:55 PM
Okay, here's what happened. Windows 10 upate finished, checked Winver and I now have 1709 installed.

As before in Modeler, right-click with mouse went into Lasso mode like it's supposed to. But just like cre8ive, the right-click mode with a Wacom Pro stylus did not work.

Next I went into the Wacom Tablet Properties panel, clicked on the Calibrate tab and disabled Windows Ink. Now the right-click button works in Modeler.

The catch is, of course, this disables Windows Ink compatibility with the stylus if that's important to you. It seemed like I needed Windows Ink enabled for some 2D drawing or animation program I used recently but I can't remember what that was right now. (I want to say it was Photoshop CC 2017, but can't swear to that.) Before that, I had Windows Ink enabled for a long time. I don't normally use my stylus in Modeler, so I probably never noticed that enabling Windows Ink caused the stylus issue Cre8ive ran into with Modeler.

If you had Windows Ink disabled before, my guess is that the Windows or the Wacom update turned it back on.

Anyway, give that a try. Good luck! :)

Edit: There was also another update for the Wacom driver today. I don't know if it's necessary for the Win 10 update but I'm guessing it has some compatibility fixes. My current version is 6.3.25-5.

Edit 2: According to Wacom, this option in the Wacom panel enables Press And Hold, which I'm guessing is not supported by Modeler. Probably not a big deal to leave it disabled but I guess it depends on the other apps you use. For now, I'm leaving it off until I run into an app that expects it to be on. Hope this info is helpful.

Brilliant! This info was incredibly helpful. Thank you so much Greenlaw! :D

gar26lw
10-23-2017, 07:21 AM
I just had to do a full reinstall due to switching form raid to ssd.
I am on windows 10 version 1703 atm and no issues in modeller or layout.
If its of any use, lots of probs with windows 10 updates with GeForce but swapping to Quadro and all good.

AS greeenlaw says, I suspect this is wacom driver issue too. I always turn off the windows ink setting by default on any installation as it stops things working in a lot of programs. its off on my cintiq tablet and no issues there, windows 10.