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Bernie2Strokes
10-04-2017, 07:56 PM
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A few weeks a long overdue update of Silo 3D was released and I thought I'd give it one more try. So I made this lunch box based on the old 1960's Thermos brand. The imagery will applied to a UV map I'm illustrating on Paintshop Pro. (Hopefully I can do it better on Krita.) But I'm thinking I should just apply surface and materials on the non-decorated parts in Lightwave. The handle and lock don't need image maps.

Does anyone know what are good material settings for a plastic handle and tin?

Oh yeah, can the Bend Tool be used to fix the origin point on the center of the lunchbox handle? That way I can bend both ends away from the center.

djwaterman
10-04-2017, 09:13 PM
Are you talking about LW for the bend? If so, I would use shear rather than bend, with symmetry active, using N (numeric input), with the right mouse button you can actually position the orange indicator however you want without affecting the object, and using the presets choose "ease out", this give a nice gentle curve. Shear is a very under used tool, you can use it for all sorts of curvy deformations in a pretty intuitive way.

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djwaterman
10-04-2017, 09:16 PM
Also ToolChef (https://www.toolchefs.com/?portfolio=modeling-toolset) have the lattice deformer, that would also work for what you want to do.

Bernie2Strokes
10-07-2017, 05:57 PM
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Thanks for the shear tip.

I've realized I can't make UVs off the casing through a planar approach. The lips I designed into the lid areas have polygons that are perpendicular. I think I might have to create an endormorph but how to I make sure I flatten out the pendicular polygons before I make UVs? I also noticed the PLG Tools plugins link is gone.

djwaterman
10-08-2017, 12:52 AM
I'm using ABF tool in this example.

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gerry_g
10-08-2017, 07:03 AM
I built one of these years ago, actually think I've done three in total, used swept splines in an old program called Amapi which is far better than the sad spline set up in LW, just look at how you did the handle which is ok but kind of a kludge, being able to to properly sweep a profile along a spline is far better in terms of uniformity of end result. As to uv'ing in LW the less said the better, in Modo a top down projection and a simple relax with edges locked and you'd be done and totally square and true, which if you are intending to place a pattern on the object is very important.

Bernie2Strokes
10-09-2017, 08:12 AM
Thanks for the help, DJ.

Now I have to find out why the EPS file is blank in Corel Paintshop.

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djwaterman
10-09-2017, 03:54 PM
I dunno about Corel, but here's how the export EPS setting should look.

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MonroePoteet
10-09-2017, 06:08 PM
Exporting the EPS UV Texture View from Modeler in LW 2015.3 using djwaterman's settings opens OK in the copy of Corel Paintshop Pro X4 I have. It's imported as a bitmap though, collapsing the curves into a "raster graphic". If I open the .EPS file in Corel Draw, the individual lines and text are retained as individual objects.

Also, note that you can drag the polygons and points around in the UV Texture window without effecting the geometry, it just slides the UV-mapped textures around on the geometry. In order to see what's going on, you need to use the Surface Editor (F5) to set up the UV Texture image map on the approprate Surface, but then it'll appear reasonably rendered in any Textured viewport.

So, if your version of Paintshop won't import the EPS file, you could create a very large, composite image in Paintshop containing all the individual front, sides and back images you want to UV map, bring it into the background in the UV Texture window, and drag the various polygons and points to fit the locations of the individual images in the composite image.

mTp

Bernie2Strokes
10-10-2017, 12:20 AM
Thanks, guys. I'm starting over with an earlier save. I'll try to keep track of the steps better.

Bernie2Strokes
10-11-2017, 02:55 AM
I've back tracked and separated the lids into separate layers from the four faces. I managed to do an ABF Unwrap of the walls. But when I try to do DJ's ABF Unwrap for the lids nothing appears in the UV Texture window.

Update:

I've stopped trying to ABF unwrap the lids and just made news UVs of the target areas for the illustrated texture maps. I'll just use the surface and texture editors to fill in the rest. Thanks for the assistance. After I'm done I'll go back and find out why some things didn't work properly. I might even decide to just model the casing natively in Lightwave instead of importing it.

RPSchmidt
10-12-2017, 11:06 AM
I've back tracked and separated the lids into separate layers from the four faces. I managed to do an ABF Unwrap of the walls. But when I try to do DJ's ABF Unwrap for the lids nothing appears in the UV Texture window.

Update:

I've stopped trying to ABF unwrap the lids and just made news UVs of the target areas for the illustrated texture maps. I'll just use the surface and texture editors to fill in the rest. Thanks for the assistance. After I'm done I'll go back and find out why some things didn't work properly. I might even decide to just model the casing natively in Lightwave instead of importing it.

For something like this, I would create the UV in LW using the Atlas setting. It will flatten the rolled edges and lay pretty much everything else out nice and flat and do a good job maintaining the spacing. Then do your export and start your texturing. I think in the end, you will be very pleased with the result.

If you are trying to create something with a specific curve, I normally create a spline the way I like it, then create a starting polygon in the shape I am looking for and then extrude it along the spline. I get the curvature I am looking for and then I can further shape the extruded object.

Anyhoo, my two cents.

Bernie2Strokes
11-13-2018, 03:49 AM
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I've recently gone back to attempting this project again. This time I'm modelling the lunch box completely in Lightwave. The ABF unwrap worked well enough.

NewTek should do something about saving edge selections.

Tim Parsons
11-18-2018, 09:40 PM
NewTek should do something about saving edge selections.

Actually you can Bernie. Select your edges that you want to save and then convert them to a point selection. Then go ahead and create a Point Set with the "S" in the lower right and give your selection a name. Then all you need to do to select your edges is to go to the stats panel and select your point set and then convert it to an edge selection. AFAIK this is the only way save an edge selection when wanting to work through some "seams" for your ABF Unwraps. I've been using this method for some years now.

Bernie2Strokes
11-19-2018, 02:20 AM
Actually you can Bernie. Select your edges that you want to save and then convert them to a point selection. Then go ahead and create a Point Set with the "S" in the lower right and give your selection a name. Then all you need to do to select your edges is to go to the stats panel and select your point set and then convert it to an edge selection. AFAIK this is the only way save an edge selection when wanting to work through some "seams" for your ABF Unwraps. I've been using this method for some years now.

Hello. I actually discovered that technique a few hours after I made the UV. Thanks. It will make things easier.

Bernie2Strokes
11-19-2018, 09:21 AM
I'm now figuring out how to model the small latch for the lunchbox. Recently it was announced some DP plugins have been updated. Does that include the DP Edge node?

If it is compatible for 2018 then could I use it to round the edges for my latch instead of modelling the roundness? Can I control the amount of roundness I want?


https://youtu.be/iWHVBQ19x94

https://www.lunchbox.com/products/plain-metal-lunchbox

Tim Parsons
11-19-2018, 09:32 AM
I'm now figuring out how to model the small latch for the lunchbox. Recently it was announced some DP plugins have been updated. Does that include the DP Edge node?

If it is compatible for 2018 then could I use it to round the edges for my latch instead of modelling the roundness? Can I control the amount of roundness I want?

Yes it does. However I would model it. :)

Bernie2Strokes
11-19-2018, 09:42 AM
I'll try modelling it first, then test both versions in render. TBH, I just want to get that latch done quickly so I can start illustrating the image map of the lunch box.

Tim Parsons
11-19-2018, 09:47 AM
After a year you want to get the latch done quickly?:D

Bernie2Strokes
11-19-2018, 10:03 AM
Last year I modeled it on another program and it couldn't unwrap it properly. Rebuilding it again directly in Lightwave wasn't an option at the time because my old PC suffered random freezes, crashes, and glitches. Eventually I had to put this project on hold so I could focus other stuff until I could afford a new build.

jwiede
11-19-2018, 11:57 AM
Actually you can Bernie. Select your edges that you want to save and then convert them to a point selection....

Well, it's a workaround, anyway. Point->edge conversion often requires modifications to the edge set result, unfortunately, esp if there are "gaps" in selected edges where pts at both end are selected (due to surrounding edges being selected). It's better than nothing, but depending on selection can require a significant amount of fixup work.

Newtek really should prioritize adding support for load/save of edge selections proper ASAP as well. Long past time, given LW's supported "edge selections" (more or less) as a distinct capability since LW9, and the absence of support creates workflow efficiency problems in a long list of areas (incl. UV work).

Tim Parsons
11-19-2018, 12:04 PM
Sure, but Newek should add support for load/save of edge selections proper ASAP as well. Long past time, given LW's supported "edge selections" (more or less) as a distinct capability since LW9, and the absence of support creates workflow efficiency problems in a long list of areas.

That goes without saying. I didn't want the thread to degenerate so I kept my mouth shut. :)

jbrookes
11-19-2018, 01:09 PM
For a plastic base surface, give it a bit of Specular and use a higher Glossiness setting (as opposed to metals which use lower glossiness settings).

And if it's supposed to be rough plastic, try one of the fractal noise procedurals with a really small scale. Start with a small Bump percentage and ramp it up as needed.

romancast
11-19-2018, 03:51 PM
I have also restarted this project, I will keep an eye on news

hrgiger
11-19-2018, 07:00 PM
If you have the option of using DPonts rounded edge shader, then use it. Especially for small edges. Don't know what its settings are like but in MODO you can set a different rounded edge per material making them bigger or smaller depending on the scale of the object.
Rounded edge shaders just make life better.

Bernie2Strokes
11-19-2018, 09:55 PM
For a plastic base surface, give it a bit of Specular and use a higher Glossiness setting (as opposed to metals which use lower glossiness settings).

And if it's supposed to be rough plastic, try one of the fractal noise procedurals with a really small scale. Start with a small Bump percentage and ramp it up as needed.

Thanks for the advice. The box itself will have a normal map which I have to illustrate. But the handle and latch only require material work with the Surface Editor. I am considering setting the lunchbox on a 1960s style kitchen counter. Or maybe one of those table cloths with the red and white gingham pattern.

Bernie2Strokes
11-26-2018, 04:25 AM
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Just wanted to show I haven't given up on this project. I'm going for a Nose Art style for the main character, Freedom.

But I was curious to know if weight shading can also be used to fake shadows were the lids cover the box.

It might also be good to start establishing the setting in Layout to fix the lighting.