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dalecampbelljr
09-22-2017, 08:58 AM
Has anyone had much success using Parenter correctly? The reason I ask is because it just doesn't seem to work for me on my scenes? If I do the included tutorial scene it works flawlessly, so I know its my issue but whats happening different?

For example I have a scene where my character is simply picking a tube of toothpaste. There is a null to control the tube and the cap, but no matter which I use(the hand) it never picks it up. There must be something simple I am missing, any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Surrealist.
09-22-2017, 01:12 PM
Are you setting key frames on the bones?

Should be like this: Select the null for the cap. Create Parenter, chose Parent and select the bone for the hand. Once you have keyframes for the hand bone. It should work. After that set a start frame for parenting, Then add Unparent and do the same in reverse.

dalecampbelljr
09-22-2017, 02:22 PM
Are you setting key frames on the bones?

Should be like this: Select the null for the cap. Create Parenter, chose Parent and select the bone for the hand. Once you have keyframes for the hand bone. It should work. After that set a start frame for parenting, Then add Unparent and do the same in reverse.

This is what I am doing? but let me try again and get back to you.

Hail
09-22-2017, 05:35 PM
In my experience, Parenter tends to be finicky when it is applied that way.
What you need to do is reverse the application.
So instead of applying it to the cup and trying to parent it to the hand, try applying it to the hand ik control null and parenting that to the cup. This way, you would be able to drive the hand with the cup since the hand is parented to it.

Surrealist.
09-23-2017, 12:00 AM
Yeah that is a way to do it as well. I can not attest to the overall stability. But I can say I did a quick test with a Genoma rig and it works exactly as I described. Attached LightWave directory

rustythe1
09-23-2017, 02:46 PM
also you sometimes cant move the object you attach to on the same keyframe as you attach parenter, I always find I need to add a keyframe to the parented item just before I parent it to the object, and also have a keyframe on the parent on the same keyframe as parenter applied and then also just after but without it moving position

jwiede
09-23-2017, 07:09 PM
also you sometimes cant move the object you attach to on the same keyframe as you attach parenter, I always find I need to add a keyframe to the parented item just before I parent it to the object, and also have a keyframe on the parent on the same keyframe as parenter applied and then also just after but without it moving position

That can't be the intended workflow -- if so, that's hideous UI/UX. If it needs all that, it should be doing so itself, not expecting the user to somehow magically know a priori all that is needed.

gar26lw
09-23-2017, 07:13 PM
100% agree. I hope there is some way to fix stuff like this; perhaps some person at lwg who looks at this kind of thing ;)

Surrealist.
09-23-2017, 10:00 PM
Well it is not exactly like that. It is a little tricky though and you have to understand how it is working.

It pretty much follows this logic. You need a Key Frame for the ball at the attach and detach positions. If you further edit the hand, but don't compensate for the ball Key Frame you wll get a pop from the parented position to the ball's Key Frame position. But the thing is, Parenter does this for you. Aparently unless there is a Key Frame all ready there. So if you make further edits to the hand, delete both the Unparent entry from the list as well as the Key Frame for the ball. Then simply click Unparent again, it will make a new keyframe for the ball at the release point.


https://youtu.be/d5YKamr6Zz0

I attached the two additional scenes for reference. You need the ball from the earlier zip.

rustythe1
09-24-2017, 04:41 PM
That can't be the intended workflow -- if so, that's hideous UI/UX. If it needs all that, it should be doing so itself, not expecting the user to somehow magically know a priori all that is needed.

yea, well I have reported it along with a second bug with the same plugin, cant remember the exact frame but somewhere around frame 20024 the plugin stops working altogether, then starts 20 frames later and then every 10000 frames or so there after repeats the same thing, I had to do a 45 min lego style animation which became a massive nightmare because of it (because if you shift your keyframes the plugin doesn't respect the shift so if you shift them back your object becomes parented when its not in position), and the bug just got returned as closed, I'm guessing 2017 came first over current bugs

jwiede
09-24-2017, 10:55 PM
yea, well I have reported it along with a second bug with the same plugin, cant remember the exact frame but somewhere around frame 20024 the plugin stops working altogether, then starts 20 frames later and then every 10000 frames or so there after repeats the same thing, I had to do a 45 min lego style animation which became a massive nightmare because of it (because if you shift your keyframes the plugin doesn't respect the shift so if you shift them back your object becomes parented when its not in position), and the bug just got returned as closed, I'm guessing 2017 came first over current bugs

Hmm, did they give any note whether the bug was already addressed in coming version, or just close it without explanation?

rustythe1
09-25-2017, 03:22 AM
closed without explanation, and that was over a year ago now I think, I also reported some other major bugs at the same time and the same happened with that, I have replicated all of them over several machines and versions of lightwave,

Surrealist.
09-25-2017, 03:51 AM
20,000 + frames (20K frames) did I read that right? And then you are calculating errors every 10K frames or so?

Not only would I not mind confirming it - for fun. I'd also like to know the details of your workflow that have you even doing that.

The most interesting problem I have heard in a long time.

rustythe1
09-25-2017, 04:30 AM
yea, sorry it was actually much lower than that, I just pulled up the bug report, this is what I wrote then to replicate it,

I have found an issue with dynamic parenter at certain key frames, I managed to manually replicate the issue several times,
easy way to replicate, open layout, create a default cube and sphere, move time slider to frame 2020 (increase the time bar first) move the sphere so its not inside the cube and create a key at 2020, move the time slider to 2021, open motion options and add the parenter modifier, drag on screen to parent to the cube, the sphere will snap out of place and to the pivot of the cube.
if you repeat all the above but add the parenter at frame 2022 it will stay in place and behave as it should do,
this seems to be affected in frames 2000 to 2021

rustythe1
09-25-2017, 04:34 AM
i think i then found it happens at 4000, 6000 and so on

Surrealist.
09-25-2017, 05:15 AM
Can't confirm any of that here. Working perfectly.

By the way. The OP ever get this working?

rustythe1
09-25-2017, 09:36 AM
odd, it happens with multiple machines and flavours for me, 64bit you have to follow the steps exactly and at the exact frames in the message, i tried it here and it still does it, when you do it you should see the object you are parenting snap to the pivot of the parent, so you need to move the object away from the parent first so you can see it happen (frame 2020 i think i said is the last frame the error happens)

Surrealist.
09-25-2017, 09:54 AM
Yep. Followed it exactly as you said it. Unless you are doing other steps you are not mentioning.

So anyway. This is still an unresolved issue as far as I can tell from the OP.

If you feel like opening another thread to open this bug for testing, I will gladly record a video to show my steps. And it will be interesting to see if anyone else can recreate it. :)

rustythe1
09-25-2017, 11:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PPydornUHg&feature=youtu.be
you will have to watch it in 1080 min to see the text as i have 4k screens but here it is, you can see the first try, the object just snaps inside the cube, the second try it stays in position

Surrealist.
09-25-2017, 01:09 PM
lol I never said I doubted you. But try as I might, I can't replicate that bug. If you can't get other people to repeat it, you are not going to have much of a case. So I would suggest opening another thread to draw more attention to it so other people can try and repeat it. I am just one guy.

rustythe1
09-25-2017, 01:15 PM
yea, i think that's the point here in this thread, there seem to be multiple problems with it but must be linked to third party, OS or some setting somewhere that cause the bugs as no other people seem to replicate them, ive done clean installs and multiple versions so i suspect its a third party plugin somewhere as they are the only things that a carried over from my installs, i always start new configs each time.

Surrealist.
09-26-2017, 08:53 PM
Got it. Yeah. I just thought that I wonder if it is some kind of graphics issue. Have you tried doing it without dragging the graphics handle? Just set it up manually on that frame?

rustythe1
09-27-2017, 02:11 AM
yes I think I tried that, in the end for that particular animation I had to freeze everything just before and after each time it would mess up and delete those frames after they were rendered as I just had to render 20 frames of useless each time, was fine for this but if you were doing character animations it would have been impossible to keep smooth curves across those areas as I had to use linear keys to prevent sudden or jerky movements. ah well maybe it will be fixed in 2017 LOL, typically I have a bunch of animations along the same lines just about to kick off, its a shame because its a massive time saver and great addition for instructional and construction videos.

Surrealist.
09-27-2017, 05:11 AM
But to get it fixed you are going to have to succeed at having someone repeating it. Can you upload a file that has this issue?

mav3rick
09-27-2017, 06:38 AM
i can also confirm weird snapping with parenter... since forever lw parenter never worked correctly

Surrealist.
09-27-2017, 06:41 AM
Exactly when and how? And can you describe the steps for me to repeat it?

dalecampbelljr
09-28-2017, 01:16 PM
Well it is not exactly like that. It is a little tricky though and you have to understand how it is working.

It pretty much follows this logic. You need a Key Frame for the ball at the attach and detach positions. If you further edit the hand, but don't compensate for the ball Key Frame you wll get a pop from the parented position to the ball's Key Frame position. But the thing is, Parenter does this for you. Aparently unless there is a Key Frame all ready there. So if you make further edits to the hand, delete both the Unparent entry from the list as well as the Key Frame for the ball. Then simply click Unparent again, it will make a new keyframe for the ball at the release point.


https://youtu.be/d5YKamr6Zz0

I attached the two additional scenes for reference. You need the ball from the earlier zip.

Sorry I didn't get back to everyone sooner, but this worked perfectly for me. Thank you Surrealist! Very Nice work

Surrealist.
09-28-2017, 01:55 PM
Cool man. Glad you got it working.

dalecampbelljr
10-04-2017, 08:54 PM
Cool man. Glad you got it working.

Ok maybe I spoke to soon? Still have some issues. The parenter object doesn't hold its position; it continues to rotate and move.

Surrealist.
10-04-2017, 09:14 PM
Can you be more specific or give a file sample? Or record a video?

Surrealist.
10-06-2017, 08:26 PM
So.... We gonna sort this out?

dalecampbelljr
10-19-2017, 07:11 PM
So.... We gonna sort this out?

Sorry, been dealing with another issue but I am back. Can I send you the scene to look?

Surrealist.
10-20-2017, 12:27 AM
Yes. Here or PM and we can share contact info.

dalecampbelljr
10-20-2017, 05:34 AM
I just PM you.

Surrealist.
10-27-2017, 07:32 PM
OK. By the way your inbox is full. I can't send a message.

And yes I had a look at it and I fixed the issue on Scene 1.

It is exactly as I described in the video. The steps exactly as I recommended.

The steps to correct it are as follows:

Go to the keyframe where you have the unparent set up. In scene 1 it was frame 1181.
Delete the keyframe on the object
Delete the entry on Parenter, the Unparent at frame 1181
Click Unparent. Done.

It will create a keyframe on the object as well as create an unparent on the plugin. And it will work exactly as I described in the video. No popping etc.

By the way you have some strange drifting on some of the objects, like the parent to the toothpaste tube and the body of the character. I am going to guess you have something going on in the scene that is changing the position of the objects after you have parented with the plugin. And if that happens again, you will have to re-do it as I described.

I am not going to look at the other scenes because I really don't have a lot of time now, and because I am fairly certain it is the same issue. However, if you do find something different, let me know what scene it is in and I will have a look.