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View Full Version : Lightwave Next needs this !



blackmondy
09-20-2017, 03:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bBS7IX6KQE

TheLexx
09-20-2017, 04:38 AM
Already has it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEZEe9YDBA0). Lightwave always gets the kicking for the development cycle, but the Snappers "vapourware" been sitting there for some years teasing this, still with zero on the website (http://snapperstech.com/), so no kiddie gloves for them I'm afraid. :)

There are all sorts of plugins for all sorts of software that are sorta envy-inducing, like Vaughan doing his thing with Modo, and have you seen the upcoming muscle system (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stWsQv0tKU0#t=2m) add-on for Blender from ManuelbastioniLAB ? Swoon. Still, Rhiggit, TAFA in talented hands..... :)

erikals
09-20-2017, 04:56 AM
this is actually sort of doable...

- use VPR (you need a fast machine)
- drive morphs using IKBooster Handles
- activate OpenGL overlay

blackmondy
09-20-2017, 05:23 AM
this is actually sort of doable...

- use VPR (you need a fast machine)
- drive morphs using IKBooster Handles
- activate OpenGL overlay

I always find IKBooster elusive and kind of a black-art using it. I don't even know it can drive morphs.

There has to be an easy to do this kind of thing procedurally or parametrically these days.

erikals
09-20-2017, 10:02 AM
oh, no, let me emphasize.

i'm talking IKBooster Handles only, not IKBooster itself. Here, IKBooster Handles in action >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqOn-LIBI94

gar26lw
09-20-2017, 03:32 PM
This is the reason I don't really like to use lw in multi user work. It's not intuitive and there are too many workarounds.
It's everywhere; even surfacing with its lack of standard naming, incoherent nodes and multiple nodes for the same thing, some working, others not. It's a dogs breakfast. I myself find it confusing :)

tyrot
09-20-2017, 06:51 PM
erikals you rock!

erikals
09-21-2017, 12:09 AM
in this case i think it is Rebel Hill :) :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5GcZS8AdhM

no reason why you couldn't use VPR and place controllers on top of the character

https://i.imgur.com/cnUSs8u.png

sami
09-21-2017, 12:15 AM
LW Next needs to exist first. :goodluck:

erikals
09-21-2017, 12:32 AM
2019...

50one
09-21-2017, 06:32 AM
2019...

Probably around Siggraph...Or Christmas...or 2020.

djwaterman
09-21-2017, 09:27 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic

leandropedrouzo
09-21-2017, 10:07 AM
I saw "Lightwave Next needs this !" and I thought it was a release date...

kyuzo
09-22-2017, 03:17 AM
One day we're gonna get an actual release date. And we're all gonna be so jaded we'll assume it's a hoax...

:)

jwiede
09-23-2017, 07:47 PM
Given Newtek/LW3DG's historical reticence to modify IK Booster, and the mesh engine replacement work in Layout, I'd like to know whether IK Booster will still be fully functional in LW Next with new mesh engine? If not, what parts will remain functional (if any)?

wingzeta
09-23-2017, 10:56 PM
Given Newtek/LW3DG's historical reticence to modify IK Booster, and the mesh engine replacement work in Layout, I'd like to know whether IK Booster will still be fully functional in LW Next with new mesh engine? If not, what parts will remain functional (if any)?

I seem to remember Lino saying specifically that IK Booster still works in LW Next. Somewhere on these forums.

Found it:
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?151777-Come-on-LWG3D-show-us-some-nuggets!&p=1490661&viewfull=1#post1490661

jwiede
09-24-2017, 12:47 AM
I seem to remember Lino saying specifically that IK Booster still works in LW Next. Somewhere on these forums.

Found it:
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?151777-Come-on-LWG3D-show-us-some-nuggets!&p=1490661&viewfull=1#post1490661

Hmm, I missed that somehow, but that's greatly reassuring to see!

prometheus
09-24-2017, 03:50 AM
I seem to remember Lino saying specifically that IK Booster still works in LW Next. Somewhere on these forums.

Found it:
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?151777-Come-on-LWG3D-show-us-some-nuggets!&p=1490661&viewfull=1#post1490661

Yes..I also noticed that earlier, so that was assuring, Out of curiousity I would like to know if there would be a possibility to expand on IK booster to work better with newer stuff?
Propably just a bag of old candy still in the pocket for use when needed, I see a gap between the functionality in bullet dynamic bones and Ik booster, would be great if things could be merged better as for setup and functionality with reference to those parts.

Hail
09-24-2017, 08:01 AM
Personally, I'd be more than happy to see it go. I think at this point, it has outlived it's usefulness. Now it's just another piece of relic collecting dust in lw, like socket monkey and a host of other really old and creaky plugins. I doubt any serious animators touch that.

So instead of trying to ressurect the dead horse, why not just replace it with something fresh, something modern and more advanced to work with. I'm not a programmer but I suspect that'd be an easier task and far more efficient than trying to fix ikb which BTW was doomed to fail from day 1 because how awkward and indirect the workflow it offers.
So imo I'd say, "out with the old, and in with the new"

Marander
09-24-2017, 09:16 AM
Personally, I'd be more than happy to see it go. I think at this point, it has outlived it's usefulness. Now it's just another piece of relic collecting dust in lw, like socket monkey and a host of other really old and creaky plugins. I doubt any serious animators touch that.

So instead of trying to ressurect the dead horse, why not just replace it with something fresh, something modern and more advanced to work with. I'm not a programmer but I suspect that'd be an easier task and far more efficient than trying to fix ikb which BTW was doomed to fail from day 1 because how awkward and indirect the workflow it offers.
So imo I'd say, "out with the old, and in with the new"

Yes agree, I don't ever want to use IKB, it's too clunky.

I would hope for LWNext they moved Genoma to Layout and add good weight, pose and animation tools.

prometheus
09-24-2017, 11:44 AM
Yes agree, I don't ever want to use IKB, it's too clunky.

I would hope for LWNext they moved Genoma to Layout and add good weight, pose and animation tools.

Well I disagree...the way you set up bullet dynamics is awkward and tedious, apart from IK boosters bullet dynamics working on old hard fx, it doesnt matter how the bones are connected, you just activate it and also pose it with the handles and off you go, with bullet dynamics you arenīt even near that kind of control, and it needs to take in account how you create bones, and you canīt use split bones on any item, it will screw up the order and make bullet bone dynamics useless, and apart from that, bullet bone dynamics do not have any ik controls to speak of, maybe someday if they make genoma and bullet bones better and working together in a nice interface.

If I get a character from daz or some from tf3dm models, making a rig is easy, and editing as well in seconds with ik booster, with genoma you would have to re-rig, pose adjust, wait a long time for the rig to convert and then get a lot of handles that may be difficult to use, personally I am not a fan of genoma really.
But take all that with a grind of salt, just my personal experience on it, some pro riggers maybe have a different opinion on it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYnUoHlM0hU

erikals
09-24-2017, 12:13 PM
IKBooster is nice for this and that. no reason whatsoever to remove it.

if LWG wants to make a good alternative, i'd welcome it.

TheLexx
09-24-2017, 01:16 PM
I'll take a guess that Ryan might chip in with some things to say about IKB, but wasn't the big thing with IKBooster a language barrier between the Japanese programmer not translating through to any comprehensive English instructions before he left, thus leaving it a somewhat undiscovered black art ? There is Larry's oop dvd-rom, but if one is real quick, I believe all of the Ryan Roye material on Liberty3D is currently on a 40% discount till 25th Sept, which has never happened before, so now might be the time to grab the IKBooster set (http://www.liberty3d.com/2014/06/ryans-animation-kit/)- put in the code FlashRyanSale to see if the discount applies (no, I'm not on a commission :)).

erikals
09-24-2017, 01:48 PM
yes, i'd advice to get it, especially at 40%, and also get RHiggit!


wasn't the big thing with IKBooster a language barrier between the Japanese programmer not translating through to any comprehensive English instructions before he left, thus leaving it a somewhat undiscovered black art ?

yes, not much of a problem these days, (if you buy the videos) though certainly was a black art in the very beginning.

Marander
09-24-2017, 03:47 PM
Well I disagree...the way you set up bullet dynamics is awkward and tedious, apart from IK boosters bullet dynamics working on old hard fx, it doesnt matter how the bones are connected, you just activate it and also pose it with the handles and off you go, with bullet dynamics you arenīt even near that kind of control, and it needs to take in account how you create bones, and you canīt use split bones on any item, it will screw up the order and make bullet bone dynamics useless, and apart from that, bullet bone dynamics do not have any ik controls to speak of, maybe someday if they make genoma and bullet bones better and working together in a nice interface.

If I get a character from daz or some from tf3dm models, making a rig is easy, and editing as well in seconds with ik booster, with genoma you would have to re-rig, pose adjust, wait a long time for the rig to convert and then get a lot of handles that may be difficult to use, personally I am not a fan of genoma really.
But take all that with a grind of salt, just my personal experience on it, some pro riggers maybe have a different opinion on it.


Hey Prom, sorry I think I didn't explain properly.

Actually I never use Genoma, but I mean a new / upgraded tool like it, that works completely in Layout, with weighting, pose controls and if possible dynamics.

I have Rhiggit Pro and it's a great rigger. I used to rig some hand made characters with it and it works ok.

However now I use People-In-Motion in C4D. I can load any DAZ character (up to Genesis3 at least), they are already rigged and weighted, a second later they're walking in the scene (using a flexible Motion / Walk designer) with full IK controls, crowd simulation functions etc. Beside DAZ, it also supports Mixamo / Fuse / AXYZ anima / Renderpeople and Autodesk Rigs. Loading the character also includes the full face rig with all the exported pose morphs and expressions.

Something like that I wish from LW(Next).

prometheus
09-24-2017, 04:02 PM
Hey Prom, sorry I think I didn't explain properly.

Actually I never use Genoma, but I mean a new / upgraded tool like it, that works completely in Layout, with weighting, pose controls and if possible dynamics.

I have Rhiggit Pro and it's a great rigger. I used to rig some hand made characters with it and it works ok.

However now I use People-In-Motion in C4D. I can load any DAZ character (up to Genesis3 at least), they are already rigged and weighted, a second later they're walking in the scene (using a flexible Motion / Walk designer) with full IK controls, crowd simulation functions etc. Beside DAZ, it also supports Mixamo / Fuse / AXYZ anima / Renderpeople and Autodesk Rigs. Loading the character also includes the full face rig with all the exported pose morphs and expressions.

Something like that I wish from LW(Next).

Sure..if that works even better than Ik booster..just fine with me, but then again..genoma has nothing to do with any bone dynamics, that is a part of bullet, and the bullet bone dynamics has nothing to do with ik posing while IK booster is both ik posing and bone dynamics, so it needs a better sync and rewrite to work with eachother in terms of genoma and bullet, which I think may be hard to do..but who knows.
Cinema4d...sure sounds cool, but right now I am not considering investing in such expensive software as a hobbyist, it may even be a hard decision to continue paying for Lightwave when I further down the line may be using blender for much stuff ..as a hobbyist for the upcoming close year...who knows more years ahead whatīs in store for my work and lightwave.

Chris S. (Fez)
09-24-2017, 04:36 PM
For custom characters Rhiggit really is a superb solution.

jwiede
09-24-2017, 05:18 PM
However now I use People-In-Motion in C4D. I can load any DAZ character (up to Genesis3 at least), they are already rigged and weighted, a second later they're walking in the scene (using a flexible Motion / Walk designer) with full IK controls, crowd simulation functions etc. Beside DAZ, it also supports Mixamo / Fuse / AXYZ anima / Renderpeople and Autodesk Rigs. Loading the character also includes the full face rig with all the exported pose morphs and expressions.

Yeah, really impressed with PIM2, workflow is very direct and works great!

Something like PIM2 for LW would be great, but it's just another entry at the end of a _very_ long list.

jwiede
09-24-2017, 05:20 PM
For custom characters Rhiggit really is a superb solution.

Seems likely RH could figure out a way to auto-conform the RHP articulations to Genesis, etc. characters as needed, adding similar functionality to Rhiggit Pro.

merovingio
09-25-2017, 02:44 AM
https://youtu.be/FdO96m910U0

Here's an example i made some time ago, with zero plugin. just few expressions to drive the morph.

The model have not the same quality as the example you provided, but the logic I think is quite the same. Is it?

erikals
09-25-2017, 02:57 AM
https://youtu.be/FdO96m910U0

Here's an example i made some time ago, with zero plugin. just few expressions to drive the morph.

The model have not the same quality as the example you provided, but the logic I think is quite the same. Is it?


yep. however you need to select the blue controller first, then move it.

adding IKBooster Handles you can click-drag in 1 step, like in the Maya video, instead of two steps.
https://youtu.be/PqOn-LIBI94

merovingio
09-25-2017, 03:03 AM
yep. however you need to select the blue controller first, then move it.

adding IKBooster Handles you can click-drag in 1 step, like in the Maya video, instead of two steps.
https://youtu.be/PqOn-LIBI94

Yes, you are right. Brilliant idea, i'll try that.

TheLexx
09-25-2017, 03:12 AM
A Larry IKBoost clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pHqyB-nBEs#t=1m3s) where he seems to one-click drag (no weight maps involved). :)