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shrox
08-28-2017, 07:50 PM
Funding for my game fell through, so I am going to build a prototype in Unity to show as well as learn from. I'll have lots of questions most likely may I ask our great minds here for help when I need it? I want do as much as I can myself, but the reality of past experience tells me there will be points I just won't get through without some help.

So if you can and want to help me here and there, I'd appreciate it. If I do get the funding else where, you'll be high on the list to hire. Some of you know I've been art director at Maxis, EA, Sega and Breakaway and I've done work for NASA. If you've got leads on funding, tell me!

Thank you so much!

Shrox

Surrealist.
08-28-2017, 08:32 PM
Blueprint visual scripting in Unreal Engine? No need to lean C. Unreal grant?

shrox
08-28-2017, 09:13 PM
Blueprint visual scripting in Unreal Engine? No need to lean C. Unreal grant?

What I want to do will require C#. What is an Unreal grant? Money from Unreal to make something?

Surrealist.
08-28-2017, 11:34 PM
Yes. And Bluprint for Unreal is creating C++ code underneath. Er. OK. I am not a programmer. So slap me. I probably have that only half right. In any case, you don't need to learn to program. You can likely do anything you need in Blueprints.


The Blueprints Visual Scripting system in Unreal Engine is a complete gameplay scripting system based on the concept of using a node-based interface to create gameplay elements from within Unreal Editor. As with many common scripting languages, it is used to define object-oriented (OO) classes or objects in the engine. As you use UE4, you'll often find that objects defined using Blueprint are colloquially referred to as just "Blueprints."

I have honestly no idea what this means:


This system is extremely flexible and powerful as it provides the ability for designers to use virtually the full range of concepts and tools generally only available to programmers. In addition, Blueprint-specific markup available in Unreal Engine's C++ implementation enables programmers to create baseline systems that can be extended by designers.


But I think it is where I got the idea it is C++ underneath.

https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Blueprints/

I think Unity has a similar type of thing and so does Cryengine.

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/unrealdevgrants

Be prepared that the competition is stiff and rarely do small start ups get awarded. Though it does happen. Just that you will really need to impress.

Ernest
08-29-2017, 12:07 AM
Yes. And Bluprint for Unreal is creating C++ code underneath.

It's kind of like that but not really. Blueprints will not generate C++ code but they will happily call the C++ code that is already there.

So let's say there is a kid called Bob in your town who was made by Epic in C++ and you call him with Blueprints and ask him to go get a gallon of milk and three loafs of bread for you. You are still slowly speaking your instructions on the script engine, but, since Tom is made of C++ he can run the errands at fast speed. Of course you can run into trouble if you ask Bob to do something that he doesn't know how to do, because then you have to explain it step by step on the scripting engine or add to Bob's capabilities in C++ yourself, but Blueprints has grown so much by now that it's easy to stay in framework.


What I like about Unity over Unreal is that there are more game frameworks in the marketplace, so if you want to make a popular type of game, it will almost certainly have hundreds of hours of programming already done for you and ready to download.

Surrealist.
08-29-2017, 12:13 AM
Yeah a much bigger marketplace. And there are all sorts of stuff now on Unreal marketplace. Not as much but there is a lot there.

Anyway thanks for the clarification. I would think unless you are doing something ultra specific, you can find a solution by learning Blueprints. Not sure how it works in Unity.

Danner
08-29-2017, 02:07 AM
I've been using Unreal and Unity a lot this year, and contrary to what people might debate on the internet, there is no "better" platform, they are different and will favor different types of projects and teams. Unity has a better asset store, unreal has a better shading workflow, Unity has a better community, (more tutorials and bigger forum archive to look for answers) It's easier to make things look good in Unreal, I could go on. I know a bit of C# so I favor programming in Unity over Unreal, but that is very personal, If you dislike nodes you'll hate Blueprints. I like it, it's really regular programming with a visual flow. A game made by a single person is not unheard of, but if you don't know programming already.. I hope you have nothing better to do for the next 2 years.

hrgiger
08-29-2017, 02:56 AM
While you can do a lot with blueprints,depending on the scooe of your game its no equivalent to learning to program and not every aspect of the engine is available to blueprints. It can also be a problem because the engine is likely to get many revisions while youre working on a project and that is easier to manage with c++. In the end, youre better off picking up programming.

Surrealist.
08-29-2017, 03:25 AM
Sure. But it depends what you want. Would be a good idea to check into it first.

I think a good idea would be to ask around and describe what it is you want. It could be something you don't need to learn C++ for. If you do want to learn it. I am with Danner, expect to have nothing to do for a few years. Scripting is very slow even if you are good at it. Not sure Shrox if you have programed before, so that might be a factor. But if you haven't there is going to be a steep learning curve.

I agree with hrgigger in the technical sense. But from a creative and practical sense it may not even be necessary.

Ztreem
08-29-2017, 07:28 AM
If you don't like traditional programming I could recommend Playmaker for Unity, it is a visual scripting plugin that works great (like blueprint for unreal). Even people that actually do programming as a day job have chosen to use playmaker to make their games in unity because its so fast and simple. Me and my colleagues made a PC game/simulator with custom hardware for a museum and it's been running every day for half a year now and no crashes all done with playmaker. If you can and have the time to get into programming, its of course really good and can be useful for making your own scripts for other things as well.
I just decided many years ago that I can't master everything and programming is not as fun as creating 2d/3d graphics and design so I just don't waste my time doing it. :)

mummyman
08-29-2017, 07:28 AM
Funding for my game fell through, so I am going to build a prototype in Unity to show as well as learn from. I'll have lots of questions most likely may I ask our great minds here for help when I need it? I want do as much as I can myself, but the reality of past experience tells me there will be points I just won't get through without some help.

So if you can and want to help me here and there, I'd appreciate it. If I do get the funding else where, you'll be high on the list to hire. Some of you know I've been art director at Maxis, EA, Sega and Breakaway and I've done work for NASA. If you've got leads on funding, tell me!

Thank you so much!

Shrox

I'm sure a TON of people on here use Unity.. I know Chilton Webb has a good knowledge with Unity. I had bought his Unity intro series a while back. Good luck!!!

ncr100
08-29-2017, 08:44 AM
Shrox, please also note that a Unity-focused talent marketplace is available: https://connect.unity.com/u

Farhad_azer
08-29-2017, 09:04 AM
That is a great decision shrox and i am sure i am not the only person here who will support u a thousand percent.

I am ready to help u with C and algorithms but i am not sure if my expertise will be the one you are after.

Plz write a little about ur background on programming.

As far as i know game programming needs some math also. Am i right fellas?

shrox
08-29-2017, 10:13 AM
Unity is already chosen...I've used Lightwave during my entire career in gaming. 20+ years. Maxis, EA, Sega, Breakaway. I've never understood why people say Lightwave can't be used for game assets.

shrox
08-29-2017, 10:33 AM
Also, I just want to learn a programming language.

bazsa73
08-29-2017, 11:19 AM
Also, I just want to learn a programming language.
Hi Shrox,
When I started coding back in the 90's I started with Turbo Pascal, then I switched over to C and learned somewhat PC Assembly, then came Flash then came a long break
and I started againpicked in around 2010 with C#. It was a huge pain but since I remembered the basic mechanisms I gathered enough knowledge to start my game in Unity/C#.
But you really have to know those basic principles which are pretty much the same in all programming languages except the wird ones but those do not concern you.
So If I were you I would write simple and tiny apps. And yes, I also used LW for my game assets, I built my levels in layout using nulls which can be used in Unity wonderfully if exported into FBX. You simply iterate through the nulls and you can replace them with any kind of prefabs (unity calls its assets as prefabs).
So good luck with it! Coding is an amazing thing once you get the hang of it.

gamedesign1
08-29-2017, 02:02 PM
Good luck Shrox! Normally I would say I would help, but at the moment I am working on a short film so can't really commit to any time. But I really look forward to seeing your progress :) Keep us posted :)

hrgiger
08-29-2017, 02:12 PM
I've never understood why people say Lightwave can't be used for game assets.

It absolutely can be used for game assets. The tools are just better and more focused in other apps.

jaf
08-29-2017, 04:33 PM
If you don't already have it, get the free community edition of Visual Studio 2017: https://www.visualstudio.com/free-developer-offers/

Also, Udemy has a Unity/C# course for $10 here: https://www.udemy.com/unitycourse/learn/v4/overview that might be useful.

jwiede
08-30-2017, 02:47 AM
I've never understood why people say Lightwave can't be used for game assets.

I've not encountered people saying LW can't be used for game assets.

I have encountered others saying (and experienced myself) that there are toolset deficits in LW that require either incorporating another app/tool (and/or less efficient workflow), or doing without certain "3D game-engine relevant" features (smoothing groups is the classic example, other commonly-cited ones are direct engine interchange esp. for Unity & Unreal incl. surfacing, and certain aspects of texture baking). To a large extent, it's the "if I'm going to have to move from LW to {3DSMax,MODO,whatever} to finish/interchange, it is just more efficient to do everything in {3DSMax,MODO,whatever}" situation.

Not all games need or benefit from such features, obviously, so whether LW is a good choice or not depends on precisely what kind of assets you're creating, your efficiency sensitivity, and so forth.

hrgiger
08-30-2017, 03:21 AM
Yeah exactly John. Part of the reason i use Modo for creating game assets was for features that are specific to that type of workflow. The uv and texel density toolset, vertex normals and smoothing groups, unreal and unity shaders in the advanced viewport and rendering, game export options and support for the latest fbx versions, being able to bake the rounded edge shader down to normal maps, support for substance, material ID output for texturing, texture baking and progressive texture bake rendering, support for udims, grid control and snapping for uv texture sheets, bridge to Unreal Engine... Sure you can use lw modeler to create assets no different then any other app. Youre just lacking a lot of game specific support workflows.

Norka
08-30-2017, 06:22 AM
PBTextureBaker and Octane are able to satisfy most of my baking needs. And Substance Painter has its baking stuff. Do you have either PBTB or Octane?

And yes, better LW UV tools are long, long overdue. Snapping, aligning etc.

shrox
08-30-2017, 07:44 AM
Yes, I get. You want a Ferrari of software and Lightwave is a VW Bug. Enough.

hrgiger
08-30-2017, 08:37 AM
PBTextureBaker and Octane are able to satisfy most of my baking needs. And Substance Painter has its baking stuff. Do you have either PBTB or Octane?

And yes, better LW UV tools are long, long overdue. Snapping, aligning etc.

Yes i do a lot of baking in substance painter (although my initial tests of baking in marmoset toolbag seem quite promising). But having direct control of your vertex normals through smoothing groups is an important facet of texture baking, something you dont have implicit control of out of LW. And yes, the uv tools in lw are sorely lacking. Even if you dont use another 3d app like modo or maya, i would definitely recommend something like 3dcoat or uv layout for creating good quality uv maps.

Sorry Shrox, not just trying to rain on the lw parade, just saying someone who is interested in working in games should know there are a lot of good tools out there designed specifically for games work. Lightwave just has not focused on these kinds of workflows.

shrox
08-30-2017, 09:19 AM
Yes i do a lot of baking in substance painter (although my initial tests of baking in marmoset toolbag seem quite promising). But having direct control of your vertex normals through smoothing groups is an important facet of texture baking, something you dont have implicit control of out of LW. And yes, the uv tools in lw are sorely lacking. Even if you dont use another 3d app like modo or maya, i would definitely recommend something like 3dcoat or uv layout for creating good quality uv maps.

Sorry Shrox, not just trying to rain on the lw parade, just saying someone who is interested in working in games should know there are a lot of good tools out there designed specifically for games work. Lightwave just has not focused on these kinds of workflows.

Yes. We know...

Norka
08-30-2017, 02:16 PM
Funny.. after posting about PBTextureBaker, I figured I'd pop over to their site and see if there was a newer version.. and there was! It now has MaterialID baker (auto-generates matIDs)!!! Woohoooo!! ColorMap sort of worked before (in a pinch) for making MatIDs, but you had to have unique colors on each surface. Yeah, MateriaID is just way better! PBTB rocks!

hrgiger
08-30-2017, 02:58 PM
Yeah Modo has a Material ID output you can add to your render and it auto generates colors on all your materials. I've not heard about PB texture baker, will have to take a look.

Norka
08-30-2017, 03:14 PM
You never heard of PBTB?!?!! It does all of its magic right inside Modeler!

http://blytools.com/baker.html

shrox
08-30-2017, 05:39 PM
You never heard of PBTB?!?!! It does all of its magic right inside Modeler!

http://blytools.com/baker.html

Excellent.

Farhad_azer
08-30-2017, 05:47 PM
Dear Shrox this might be a terrible advice for a beginner but never ever ever forget to look at classic book K&R.

Perhaps not a good place to argue about it here but it is a masterpiece and it only is around 150 pages.

Sooner or later you will need to adapt to the syntax of C language and there is no book better than this.

One more strange thing: i googled this book and the very first result was the free pdf of it.

Time is gold. Go for it.

shrox
08-30-2017, 06:48 PM
Dear Shrox this might be a terrible advice for a beginner but never ever ever forget to look at classic book K&R.

Perhaps not a good place to argue about it here but it is a masterpiece and it only is around 150 pages.

Sooner or later you will need to adapt to the syntax of C language and there is no book better than this.

One more strange thing: i googled this book and the very first result was the free pdf of it.

Time is gold. Go for it.

Thanks! I found and downloaded it. I've been making games for almost 25 years, but programming for only 5 sconds...

MichaelT
09-04-2017, 12:41 PM
Programming really isn't that hard.. just keep at it. Program for an hour.. take a break.. repeat. Sooner than you'd think, you will find yourself getting a flow. That's when the real magic begins :) Good luck, and stick to it.