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Captain Chaos
08-25-2017, 08:31 AM
Is there a tutorial on how to make realistic wrinkles on a bag? Mine look like mylar balloons. See attachment for the feature in question.137762

Ztreem
08-25-2017, 09:49 AM
Is there a tutorial on how to make realistic wrinkles on a bag? Mine look like mylar balloons. See attachment for the feature in question.137762

I don't know about tutorials but if I would do it I would do it in a sculpting app. Look for sculpting wrinkles on youtube.

Captain Chaos
08-25-2017, 10:53 AM
I don't know about tutorials but if I would do it I would do it in a sculpting app. Look for sculpting wrinkles on youtube.

Not sure what you mean by "sculpting app".

kopperdrake
08-25-2017, 11:06 AM
Zbrush, 3D Coat, Mudbox :)

Captain Chaos
08-25-2017, 11:23 AM
The people I work for aren't going to pay for more software. I'll have to figure something else out.

wingzeta
08-25-2017, 11:44 AM
Zbrush would be the way to go, but if you don't have that, you could take that reference in LW and start plotting out the features by making cuts in a flat poly. Then start pulling the resulting points forward or back in the z axis to create the first side of the bag, then go from there. If you have to make it a bit high poly to get the details you want, then you could generate a normal map or displacement map, and apply it to a low poly version. Also might want to keep an eye on your surface smoothing angle.

Ztreem
08-25-2017, 11:52 AM
The people I work for aren't going to pay for more software. I'll have to figure something else out.

Sculptris and Blender are free.

JoePoe
08-25-2017, 01:22 PM
Inside LW I agree with wingzeta that a displacement map could work well. Even it's just from a painted image.

But if you want to keep it lower poly: In conjunction with some multi shifting and an edge bevel or two you could ... and I can't believe I'm saying this..... use CC sub patches and edge sharpening. And then it's just good old fashioned pushin' points.
As buggy as it is, it'll get you there. I just spent a couple minutes on one corner of your model from the other thread. You can certainly take it a lot further than I did. But I suggest being selective with the areas you sharpen and by how much. i.e. A little section at 75%, another at 90%, another at 98% etc. I'd stay away from full on 100% though.
(a little trick: if the model seems to tear or fall apart while you're working, hit increase CC sharpness once and it'll heal itself. Then Decrease CC sharpness once just to get back to where you were. I'm talking about the commands under Detail tab > Edges > More....)

137765 137766

Captain Chaos
08-25-2017, 01:34 PM
Inside LW I agree with wingzeta that a displacement map could work well. Even it's just from a painted image.

But if you want to keep it lower poly: In conjunction with some multi shifting and an edge bevel or two you could ... and I can't believe I'm saying this..... use CC sub patches and edge sharpening. And then it's just good old fashioned pushin' points.
As buggy as it is, it'll get you there. I just spent a couple minutes on one corner of your model from the other thread.
Be selective with the areas you sharpen and by how much. i.e. A little section at 75%, another at 90%, another at 98% etc. I'd stay away from full on 100% though.
(a little trick: if the model seems to tear or fall apart while you are working, hit increase CC sharpness once and it'll heal itself. Then Decrease CC sharpness once just to get back to where you were.)

137765 137766

I believe I'll have a go at that. Thank you!

Captain Chaos
08-25-2017, 01:38 PM
and I can't believe I'm saying this..... use CC sub patches and edge sharpening.

What is it that I'm missing about CC patches? Is that a thing for hacks?

JoePoe
08-25-2017, 03:20 PM
What is it that I'm missing about CC patches? Is that a thing for hacks?

Ha! Interesting way to phrase the question :D.

The reason I worded what I said the way I did is simply because CCs in LW have always been poorly implemented. The mesh seems to fall apart and mirroring can really do some damage. They can be a real drag to work with. Up until the post to you I've generally warned people to stay away from LWs CCs. That's why it was a bit funny to me.
That being said they can be very powerful. Especially with the edge sharpness ability. At one point they were poised to be the heir apparent in the SubD modeling world. But at this point, I believe, other algorithms have surpassed them... hence some of the programs listed above. Even Pixar has moved on to their newer OpenSubddivs (or beyond! OpenSubD is available to everyone. Who knows what they've kept proprietary ;)).

As far as the hack thing goes:
CCs are nice because they let you get away with a lot. Most notably Ngons. In the hands of a practiced modeler that's fine. And in a model that doesn't need to be animated kind of helpful at times.
But they tend to lull the less experienced into a false sense of security. It's freedoms then instead tend to translate into bad habits resulting in poor general poly flow and make taking ill-advised short cuts all too easy.
Much better to bring good habits to CCs rather than rely on CCs to cover one's shortcomings.

JoePoe
08-26-2017, 03:38 PM
Did a quick stab with the displacement/normal route.


137772

gerry_g
08-26-2017, 05:21 PM
looks a little too shabby, could never do that for a product shot, is more like a tramps meths bag for hiding his bottle, think some minor real displacement would work and again this is why you would not use CC's, displacement only really works with LW sub d, it need uv's and a good 32bit grey scale displacement map, but subtle not like you got the bag out the trash

JoePoe
08-26-2017, 06:24 PM
Ha :D! Just showing that its possible.
Not using CC with the displacement here, only on the edge sharp example further above.
Certainly, of course, it needs to be dialed in much better. I think I spent 4 minutes. Only procedurals.

JamesCurtis
08-26-2017, 10:15 PM
Possibly take an actual paper or snack bag and photograph it, inside out if need be to get rid of any printing. Then, bring the images into a paint program of some sort and turn the images into grey scale and map that to a high poly version of the planes of the bag. You could also scan the bags if you have a scanner. Use the images as displacement maps. You could also use them as background images in modeler as guides to create polygons and push/pull on points to give the feel of the folds.

bazsa73
08-27-2017, 10:13 AM
I would model the main shape then add displacement here and there using weight map masks to avoidso the uniform displacement.

Captain Chaos
08-28-2017, 11:25 AM
like a tramps meths bag

I'd at least want it to look like one of MY meth bags.