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john_v
08-14-2017, 12:37 AM
Hi gurus

I must say that this NDI-protocol is very interesting. But, I have some doubts about the picture quality at fast sport events, like basket ball, ice hockey etc. because bitrate for HD is ~100 Mbps / feed and for 4K is ~325 Mbps / feed

Comparing to J2K compression, bitrate used by NDI are much less, so has any one really tested 4K for live sport production ? If so, please share your experiences.


Br,
John

Zane Condren
08-14-2017, 07:42 AM
Hi John,

Tupelo Raycom is a production company that got the very first NewTek IP series system and pretty much all hey use it for is for sports production. They have done a variety of fast sports for both ESPN, NBC Sports etc and have had no complaints.

Here is a write up on them http://blog.newtek.com/blog/2017/02/08/sports-workflows-with-ip-integration-webstream-sportstupelo-raycom/.

john_v
08-15-2017, 12:20 AM
Hi Zane and thanks for your reply. Do you know that are these productions made as HD or 4K ?

I still would like to hear and/or see 4K production in real life at sport production.

br,
Juha

Zane Condren
08-15-2017, 06:07 AM
All the shows they have produced have been a mix of 720p, 1080i and 1080p 60p. Most of what they do is for linear broadcast here in the states which haven't moved to 4K.

Radio_TVPat1982
08-15-2017, 08:18 AM
Here are a couple other links to look at as well.

An interview with Jon at Tupelo Raycom
http://blog.newtek.com/blog/2017/05/30/nab-2017-interview-with-john-servizzi-of-tupelo-raycom/

An interview with Jef Kethley that is planning to move to 4K if he has not already. Also a heavy forum contributor.
http://blog.newtek.com/blog/2017/02/10/qa-with-jef-kethley-of-livesports/

I think we are still several years away from broadcast TV offering 4K live and the majority of users having 4K TVs to receive it. I think it will catch on more than 3D did but not as big of a boom as the switch from standard to HD years ago. I think 60P is more important when watching. Just my thoughts.........

PIZAZZ
08-15-2017, 02:47 PM
Pat is right, We are and have been using NDI to do 4K since it was capable to it. My production arm LiveSports produces a majority of fast paced professional tennis tournaments around the U.S and Canada. Our output is currently less than 4k but we are doing everything from the glass to the encoders in a 4k workflow. NDI rocks the world.

Radio_TVPat1982
08-16-2017, 06:16 AM
Jef, we just got a 4K camera at one of the colleges I work for. First time I have ever seen a 4K production camera. Amazing to see one just assembled for the first time. The college purchased it really to future proof things since nothing that receives a signal currently can input/output 4k (or 1080P for that matter). I think the plan is to get a new switcher sooner than latter.

You are truly ahead of the game at this point Jef. My wife just bought us a 4K TV and was like where do I go to watch TV in 4K and I said really only on demand stuff and maybe some movies at this point. Certainly not much live as of yet.

I do plan to make my next switcher a TC1 and by that time maybe some things will evolve.

john_v
08-17-2017, 01:56 AM
Hi Jef

"NDI rocks teh world" means, that there are no any problems with quolity, delays or similar. Do you have full NDI enviroment, meaning that also graphics system, encoders etc. are NDI cabaples devices ? Or do you have hybrid production enviroment and you need convert at some point 4K --> SDI ?


Br,
Juha

PIZAZZ
08-21-2017, 08:36 AM
Hi Jef

"NDI rocks teh world" means, that there are no any problems with quolity, delays or similar. Do you have full NDI enviroment, meaning that also graphics system, encoders etc. are NDI cabaples devices ? Or do you have hybrid production enviroment and you need convert at some point 4K --> SDI ?


Br,
Juha

Sorry for the delay Juha in answering your question.
We are nearly all NDI now. Like 95%. We still have a few HD signals we use from time to time over old fashioned fiber converters. Graphics, Encoders, IP Series, Camera outputs to the production network are all now NDI.

Smaller productions can get by with off the shelf mid-range gigabit switches. We are currently swapping out our primary and leaf switches to 10G fiber just for future proofing a bit more. Now that so much is running on the network, a properly designed network infrastructure is paramount. We run Dante for Audio, NDI for video, data scoring collection, remote and local robotic camera control, streaming multiple outputs, and even sometimes we even use the internet for browsing. :)

I have found that proper VLANS and adequate overall bandwidth capacity on the master switch is a good thing. Basically what I am saying is use good hardware like Cisco, Ubiquiti, Peplink, Juniper, etc. I personally stay away from consumer based Linksys, Netgear, TPLink, DLink for NDI use.

john_v
08-23-2017, 04:22 AM
Hi Jef and thanks for sharing your experiences.

--J