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View Full Version : Radeon ProRender Renderer is Now Open-source added C4d and Modo support



samurai_x
08-07-2017, 04:30 AM
https://pro.radeon.com/en-us/radeon-prorender-siggraph-2017-open-source-version-developers-now-available-radeon-prorender-capabilities-coming-cinema-4d-modo-updated-plug-ins/

https://pro.radeon.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/08/Radeon-ProRender-Modo-Integration-Screenshot_1920-1120x700.jpg


It seems like a wasted effort to work on Lightwave Nexts CPU renderer when the renderer was not the weakest part of Lightwave.
Cycles and Prorender are going to mature faster since many 3d software are integrating them.
Lightwave again not looking good with a CPU renderer.

tyrot
08-07-2017, 04:58 AM
Lightwave again not looking good with a CPU renderer.



Lightwave again not looking good with a CPU renderer.



Lightwave again not looking good with a CPU renderer.

just wanted to emphasize the point ! WHY would you spend your limited budget on coding a renderer :(

Marander
08-07-2017, 05:27 AM
It seems like a wasted effort to work on Lightwave Nexts CPU renderer when the renderer was not the weakest part of Lightwave.
Cycles and Prorender are going to mature faster since many 3d software are integrating them.
Lightwave again not looking good with a CPU renderer.

Yep I share this opinion.

ProRender is also announced for modo.

Redshift is getting better and better. Cycles is working well in C4D, iRay too (along with about 10 other 3rd party renderers like Arnold, Octane, Vray, Maxwell etc.). So many options - why develop a solution from scratch. With the limited resources it will be outdated when available.

CaptainMarlowe
08-07-2017, 12:41 PM
While I'dd love an OpenCL GPU renderer, especially this one, I don't agree that LW new renderer is a mistake. Actually, I'm pretty impatient to try it, and I'm quite sure I'm not alone. The new PBR renderer would even be my first reason to upgrade.

Marander
08-07-2017, 02:31 PM
While I'dd love an OpenCL GPU renderer, especially this one, I don't agree that LW new renderer is a mistake. Actually, I'm pretty impatient to try it, and I'm quite sure I'm not alone. The new PBR renderer would even be my first reason to upgrade.

Of course it would be create if it has a [email protected] renderer, fast, great quality and implementation of industry standards (like Substance and mdl support).

I just find it hard to believe that such a small team or even one person can compete with the other solutions that have much more manpower, experience, knowhow and production proven releases in this area.

GPU and/or hybrid rendering is going to be the standard. Even the new iMacPro's will have decent built-in GPU power.

Most renderers that have been CPU-only already have (V-Ray, Cycles, iRay, ProRender) or are in development for a hybrid option (Arnold). And Redshift seams to become the new GPU render king.

Let's see...

hrgiger
08-07-2017, 02:35 PM
Looking forward to trying it out later this year in Modo. Going to be a tech preview for Modo 11 users. They're not sure yet if it will be a plugin or included in Modo yet.

Marander
08-07-2017, 04:39 PM
Looking forward to trying it out later this year in Modo. Going to be a tech preview for Modo 11 users. They're not sure yet if it will be a plugin or included in Modo yet.

I'm sure its coming to modo.

Maybe they'll observe if the Maxon inplementation is successful (it will not be feature complete in R19 yet) and then decide for built-in or not. I don't think modo needs to be in a hurry, there are many good 3rd party options and modo's own renderer is not too shabby.

iRay is also a very good renderer but it supports only NVidia cards / CUDA. Looks like AMDs / OpenCLs openness is a preferred option.

iRay (while free in DAZ or Substance) is rental only unfortunately. It's even integrated in R18s render menu but I don't feel like renting the renderer.

Interesting times anyway!

hrgiger
08-07-2017, 05:16 PM
I use Iray in Substance Painter/Designer and like it for stills. You say supports only Nvidia/CUDA like that's a problem, that's all I use. :)

From what I heard of the Radeon renderer for Modo, its hardware agnostic. I need to get a new gpu before that happens anyway, I'm still running a 760 because I'm not really making enough use of GPU rendering yet.

Verlon
08-07-2017, 06:06 PM
I use Iray in Substance Painter/Designer and like it for stills. You say supports only Nvidia/CUDA like that's a problem, that's all I use. :)

From what I heard of the Radeon renderer for Modo, its hardware agnostic. I need to get a new gpu before that happens anyway, I'm still running a 760 because I'm not really making enough use of GPU rendering yet.

It is a problem for Mac users, for example.

Anytime you tie yourself to one GFX card, you are at the mercy of them. Both cards have pulled slimy shenanigans in the past, so the only way to keep them honest is to play them against each other.

Dexter2999
08-07-2017, 06:48 PM
just wanted to emphasize the point ! WHY would you spend your limited budget on coding a renderer :(

First, let me preface this with saying, I am NOT picking on you by quoting your response.

The reason they would rework their renderer is because LW has been known for the quality of their renderer (if not the speed) but they have a certain pride and don't want it to fall too far behind.

Also, if they don't, there will be, without a doubt, outbursts from their user base of "Why should I have to pay/get another renderer? Why isn't this included? Blender has this, and it's free!"

Again, not picking on anyone. Just trying to shine a realistic light on the situation as I see it.

TheLexx
08-08-2017, 11:10 AM
I just wanted to put it out there that with AMD Threadripper and new a generation of I9, could CPU rendering see a renaissance ? Maybe bodes well for LW Next renderer.

hrgiger
08-08-2017, 11:50 AM
http://www.cgchannel.com/2017/08/foundry-picks-amds-radeon-prorender-for-modo/

Marander
08-08-2017, 12:32 PM
http://www.cgchannel.com/2017/08/foundry-picks-amds-radeon-prorender-for-modo/

Great news!

Heres a little preview (but I find the glass renders quite slowly )

https://youtu.be/dFL9_v7a70o

And here (but not in English)

https://youtu.be/pOAB4RCk3k4

Meshbuilder
08-08-2017, 01:12 PM
A question. Do any of the vfx studios (TV & film) render on GPUs? Not for previews but for final animation / render pass.
If not, why is that, when everyone says GPU is better than CPU rendering.

TheLexx
08-08-2017, 01:53 PM
On the Maxon demo of Prorender, the guy mentions at 12:00 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFL9_v7a70o#t=12m)that the GPU renders shown at the beginning of video took 4 hours to render, so he recommends using more for stills than animation. I believe Lino's tiger took around 40 mins (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?153792-LW-Next-Tiger-Render&p=1508523&viewfull=1#post1508523), though I don't know which GPU is being compared to which CPU, but it does look like Prorender will have to be a multi-GPU setup for animation.

Marander
08-08-2017, 02:21 PM
On the Maxon demo of Prorender, the guy mentions at 12:00 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFL9_v7a70o#t=12m)that the GPU renders shown at the beginning of video took 4 hours to render, so he recommends using more for stills than animation. I believe Lino's tiger took around 40 mins (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?153792-LW-Next-Tiger-Render&p=1508523&viewfull=1#post1508523), though I don't know which GPU is being compared to which CPU, but it does look like Prorender will have to be a multi-GPU setup for animation.

Yeah seems to take quite some time for a full render. Sure depends on optimizations, render settings and materials (I don't even know if it supports hair yet), maybe too early to say.

For material, light and scene setup it is very nice tough.

It can render on CPU only too but unfortunately in the first implementation TeamRender is not yet supported. Still needs some time.

In the second video a bit later in there are some stunning renders and it seems faster to me.

Marander
08-08-2017, 02:52 PM
A question. Do any of the vfx studios (TV & film) render on GPUs? Not for previews but for final animation / render pass.
If not, why is that, when everyone says GPU is better than CPU rendering.

I read some vfx studios changed part of their renderfarms to gpu but I think it's more used by individual artists / motion design freelancers, archviz and product visualisation. But that requires a good GPU rig.

I don't see GPU rendering as the ultimate thing (maybe if I had a quad Titan rig I would). And not every renderer is the same efficient. But it's a great addition for fast lookdev, lighting, texturing etc.

Redshift is seems to be way faster then Octane (I have not used them yet).

Vray (at least in C4D) is not working well with all materials in GPU mode / IPR and looks different in both modes (but is a great and fast CPU renderer). Maybe that's also due to my limited experience with it, it only works well on CPU for me.

ProRender, Cycles and iRay can work fully hybrid. Arnold 5 is still CPU only.

The advantage of the LW (Next) renderer is VPR (similar to the GPU renderers).

samurai_x
08-08-2017, 06:29 PM
A question. Do any of the vfx studios (TV & film) render on GPUs? Not for previews but for final animation / render pass.
If not, why is that, when everyone says GPU is better than CPU rendering.

A lot of studios are moving to Redshift. Its the best gpu renderer for animation. Think Vray but really built for gpu, that's Redshift.

Newtek miscalculated their roadmap on lightwave next. Working on a cpu renderer at this time? Its just like when they miscalculated how important it was to merge modeler and layout back then.

Chris S. (Fez)
08-08-2017, 06:44 PM
Eh. Can't wait to try the new renderer. Online render farms combined with Lightwave's unlimited nodes make Lightwave an easy, affordable solution.

samurai_x
08-08-2017, 10:07 PM
Because you're a lightwaver. Other 3d users don't care about a new cpu renderer at this point. People already know how fast gpu renderers are, even lightwave octane users think octane is fast. If they only knew how fast Redshift is compared to octane. They would cry.

Those 3d users are a bigger customer base. Better than just going after current lightwave users. Dwindling by the week with disappointment.

It would have been better if it was unlimited gpu render nodes. That would get those people's attention.

But you work with what you have and there's no gpu dev at newtek that can create a gpu renderer.

Chris S. (Fez)
08-09-2017, 08:15 AM
Arnold + Corona are presently strictly CPU and quite capable and popular. Free Mental Ray network rendering was removed from Max and Maya and replaced with Arnold, which requires costly render nodes to leverage a farm.

Throw in mandatory subscription for new users and insanely ill-advised pricing penalties for perpetual licensees and is it any wonder Autodesk customers are upset and investigating other solutions?

Lightwave nodes offer uniquely rich, intuitive creative control. Next offers industry standard pbr workflows along with a unique native npr toolset. While almost certainly including hooks for closer Octane integration, the native capabilities of Next combined with unlimited free rendering nodes will hopefully make Lightwave a highly competitive option, especially if the viewport performance is genuinely next gen.

Those same Octane hooks could conceivably be used to relatively easily add Redshift or Unreal or whatever one day. Lots of potential for Lightwave to find a place in pipelines, as long as Next is fast and stable...

hrgiger
08-09-2017, 10:17 AM
I mean I hate to be a Debbie downer here but nobody is coming to LightWave from an Autodesk product for a renderer. The renderer is a good step forward for LightWave itself but there are too many good options out there now for third party renderers that you're not going to pick up a dcc app just for that reason when there are already highly focused solutions that already exist.

Verlon
08-09-2017, 10:29 AM
I mean I hate to be a Debbie downer here but nobody is coming to LightWave from an Autodesk product for a renderer. The renderer is a good step forward for LightWave itself but there are too many good options out there now for third party renderers that you're not going to pick up a dcc app just for that reason when there are already highly focused solutions that already exist.

No on is leaving Autodesk for a product that is 'coming soon' for 18 months with virtually no communication for the last 8. Sorry, but silence does not win customers. A few posts about working on it are simply not enough.

Chris S. (Fez)
08-09-2017, 12:10 PM
I mean I hate to be a Debbie downer here but nobody is coming to LightWave from an Autodesk product for a renderer. The renderer is a good step forward for LightWave itself but there are too many good options out there now for third party renderers that you're not going to pick up a dcc app just for that reason when there are already highly focused solutions that already exist.

Firms are suddenly facing the prospect of expensive Mental Ray farms. Yes, if they must pay per node for an in-house farm then they might as well switch to Vray but the point is they are or well, were, actively investigating alternative network and GPU rendering solutions. Pretty much everyone I know kept their perpetual licenses and added Vray but quite a few picked up seats of C4D + Redshift or Octane.

LW with next-gen viewport performance, farm-friendly rendering and a cost effective path to Octane...they would have at least downloaded the demo. It is a shame Newtek could not manage a marketing tease if not a release. I know lots of folks who were looking. The good news is they are still likely going to download the demo.

Modo seems to be offering the best of both worlds. Native GPU rendering + free CPU network rendering = fast previewing on individual systems before sending it to the farm.

LW Group should obviously aim for the Modo model but, in the mean time, I think they can sell a lot of seats as nothing more than a cost-effective, blazingly fast platform for Octane.

samurai_x
08-09-2017, 11:05 PM
Arnold + Corona are presently strictly CPU and quite capable and popular. Free Mental Ray network rendering was removed from Max and Maya and replaced with Arnold, which requires costly render nodes to leverage a farm.

Throw in mandatory subscription for new users and insanely ill-advised pricing penalties for perpetual licensees and is it any wonder Autodesk customers are upset and investigating other solutions?

Lightwave nodes offer uniquely rich, intuitive creative control. Next offers industry standard pbr workflows along with a unique native npr toolset. While almost certainly including hooks for closer Octane integration, the native capabilities of Next combined with unlimited free rendering nodes will hopefully make Lightwave a highly competitive option, especially if the viewport performance is genuinely next gen.

Those same Octane hooks could conceivably be used to relatively easily add Redshift or Unreal or whatever one day. Lots of potential for Lightwave to find a place in pipelines, as long as Next is fast and stable...


Arnold has been developing their gpu version for some time because they know its where rendering will be.
I have not seen Corona used extensively for animation.
People using max and maya are not upset because they have the best gpu renderer right now and that's Redshift.:D

Chris S. (Fez)
08-09-2017, 11:51 PM
Arnold has been developing their gpu version for some time because they know its where rendering will be.

I suspect CPU farms will be used in conjunction with GPUs for the foreseeable future. Fast previews on personal workstations forwarded to the farm for final rendering. Maybe not. I imagine it is going to be a while before Pixar and ILM and such move strictly to GPUs.


I have not seen Corona used extensively for animation.

Me neither. Plenty of Print/Products/Arch-Viz/Technical Illustration etc..



People using max and maya are not upset because they have the best gpu renderer right now and that's Redshift.:D

If Lightwave makes a comeback then the hooks that Newtek created for Octane can almost certainly be used by Jaunjo to port Redshift (as he is doing with Houdini). How convenient that he is so familiar with Lightwave, eh? Newtek themselves posted Octane tutorials for the community and are well aware of the advantages of GPU rendering. Having software that has rich native surfacing and rendering is not a weakness at all IMO. With the tools and hooks already in place, it is going to make using Octane in Lightwave that much more intuitive, flexible and powerful.


There are threads all over the web critical of Autodesk and it is even worse off-forum in my experience. Here http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=6&t=1459581 Jon Bell captures the general mood of the Max community: "I don' think customer & user sentiment has ever been this low. It is a dark time for Autodesk and the next 24 months will be fascinating. Perhaps the end of Autodesk's "small" Media & Entertainment division. Sure, Maya & Max, etc will still be around, but I imagine small, medium and large facilities will stick to a version (2017) to avoid perpetually renting software."

hrgiger
08-10-2017, 01:58 AM
As far as the prorender goes, I'm not worried about any current limitations seen at this point, its being actively developed and will improve over time just like Octane has. I think if nothing else it could turn out to be a great fast previewer for Modo whether or not I use it for final rendering.