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View Full Version : Fusion 9 released



Marander
08-01-2017, 01:28 PM
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/fusion/

Price reduction from $995 to $295 for the Studio version (same as for Resolve).

Absolutely amazing!

Farhad_azer
08-01-2017, 02:42 PM
Unbelivable.
Thanks for informing. Fusion is a great software.

allabulle
08-01-2017, 02:44 PM
Nice!

sukardi
08-01-2017, 05:36 PM
So it seems Fusion 9 has built in 3D camera tracking (have not gone through the details yet), the only major thing that I felt was missing before. This is fantastic ...

eon5
08-01-2017, 06:26 PM
Amazing !!!

vonpietro
08-01-2017, 08:07 PM
got back from siggraph were they showed it off -

free version does not have 3d tracking - it's only in the studio version

studio version also only has the new VR 360 viewing and creation stuff. edit your 360 footage, comosite, add effects, and save it out.

also 9 has new keyers - something called delta and clean plate.

the best news was the price reduction putting studio fusion in reach of people's wallets. That means you get the 3d tracker, and plugins and unlimited resolution output and stereoscopic and VR
=)

madno
08-01-2017, 10:03 PM
v9 studio seems to be free for v8 studio owners.

CaptainMarlowe
08-02-2017, 01:07 AM
Wow, great update. At that price, I might go for the studio version, it's really not expensive.

50one
08-02-2017, 01:22 AM
Wow! Ģ239 what a bargain.

djlithium
08-02-2017, 01:25 AM
been playing wtih it all night here once i got a break from 'day job stuff' on other projects. It's got some issues with performance/reactive/interactive things at the moment but the update is certainly worth buy it as a new seat and the upgrade from 7, to 8 and no 9 for me with no cost has been awesome!
thanks fusion/BMD.
More tutorials out soon on Fusion 9 coming from www.liberty3d.com as you can imagine! the new trackers are great!

allabulle
08-02-2017, 06:37 AM
Has anyone been able to buy it? I can't seem to find a reseller that sells v9.

Chris S. (Fez)
08-02-2017, 06:45 AM
I assume 9 is a free upgrade. This reseller has already marked down 8 to $299: https://www.adorama.com/bmdvstufus.html

allabulle
08-02-2017, 06:47 AM
I could only find v8 with the prior price. I'll check back again. Thanks Chris.

ianr
08-02-2017, 07:25 AM
Wow! Ģ239 what a bargain.



Just Nuked ....Nuke.

I wish Ronny & the team,
good wishes,
plenty of seats &
a ground-swell of schools teaching.

The scuttlebutt (forum) should you wish is @

www.steakunderwater.com.

sadkkf
08-02-2017, 07:33 AM
This is seriously cool. I *just* download v8 the day before yesterday and love the price drop. Now I can really kiss After Effects goodbye. :)

tischbein3
08-02-2017, 08:05 AM
Just Nuked ....Nuke.

The 1k price tag wasn't that bad either, hope they stay in competitive development with that price drop

Reco
08-02-2017, 08:09 AM
I assume 9 is a free upgrade. This reseller has already marked down 8 to $299: https://www.adorama.com/bmdvstufus.html

It is a free upgrade.

Reco

Marander
08-02-2017, 08:23 AM
I would like to see a licensing like with LW with a license file instead of a dongle.

I assume dongles are still required for Fusion and Resolve? Is it a USB stick? Would I need two dongles then for both and does it require special driver software?

The free versions of Fusion and Resolve are unbelievable generous with almost no limitation. But for this price I would seriously consider getting the Studio for both, even if it's just to support them. Plugin support for Fusion Studio is the biggest advantage for me.

Actually before the price drop, I dreamed to maybe one day get one the BM cameras for Canon lenses, where the Resolve Studio is included (also very generous), but these prices are a game changer.

With Affinity Designer and Photo, Fusion, PhotoLine, PaintShop Pro, Resolve and Krita I have no need for Adobe.

TheLexx
08-02-2017, 08:48 AM
Resolve Studio is coming with a dongle free version, so I suspect Fusion might too.

ianr
08-02-2017, 09:40 AM
This is seriously cool. I *just* download v8 the day before yesterday and love the price drop. Now I can really kiss After Effects goodbye. :)

And How! Sadkkf cos version9 is Open C/L accelerated by GPU goodness.

While Adobe engineers moan about the age of AfterEffects renderer on their forum .

Its a no brainer, good luck enjoy!

prometheus
08-02-2017, 10:14 AM
I have just recently starting to use and learn fusion 8, some week ago, havenīt looked in to version 9 yet, but sounds exciting.

sadkkf
08-02-2017, 10:46 AM
And How! Sadkkf cos version9 is Open C/L accelerated by GPU goodness.

While Adobe engineers moan about the age of AfterEffects renderer on their forum .

Its a no brainer, good luck enjoy!

A no-brainer for sure!

Sadly, my GPU is AMD so I doubt it's supported, but I'm looking forward to diving into these apps!

- - - Updated - - -


I have just recently starting to use and learn fusion 8, some week ago, havenīt looked in to version 9 yet, but sounds exciting.

I'm sure you'll like it. The nodes are a little confusing at first, but once you get use to them, it's a faster workflow. At least it is for me.

Greenlaw
08-02-2017, 12:08 PM
Aw, man, and I had just upgraded my old Eyeon Fusion 6 to BMD Fusion 8 Studio a couple of months ago. Oh, well...I thought it was a good value then and still do, and at least the upgrade to 9 will be free. :)

As for where to buy, I got mine through Amazon. The actual reseller was either Adorama or B&H Photo...either one have been very reputable dealers for many years. I don't know if they have the lower price for Fusion 9 yet since it was only just announced. (Just checked...at B&H, it looks like lower price applies to 8 now.)

allabulle
08-02-2017, 12:29 PM
(...)Sadly, my GPU is AMD so I doubt it's supported, but I'm looking forward to diving into these apps!

OpenCL works on AMD cards. CUDA is Nvidia only, but OpenCL works on almost everything.

Greenlaw
08-02-2017, 12:30 PM
Regarding Fusion vs AE, FWIW, I use both, sometimes on the same projects.

For most VFX work, I really do prefer Fusion though, ESPECIALLY if you use the exr format. Fusion is also way more efficient if you have a ton of layers and masks because it's a nodal compositor. (AE's concept of 'precomping' is almost meaningless, unless you're just trying to optimize render tasks.) It's also easy to move LightWave data into Fusion via FBX. A few years ago, somebody wrote a tool to bring MDD into
Fusion too, but I'm not sure that still works.

For me, the downside with Fusion is that it lacks AVI output. We used to have AVI output in the Eyeon versions of Fusion, so I don't know why they dropped it. This sucks for me because I edit in Vegas where AVI is far more efficient than MOV. MOV can be slow and crashy in Vegas. Supposedly, BMD is planning to bring back AVI support but it's been missing for a few years now.

What I really like about AE is Trapcode Particular, a third party particle system. Fusion has a terrific 3D particle system too but I can do a lot of neat tricks with TCP a lot faster in AE. Also, AE's 3D camera tracker can output camera data to LightWave, and you can bring LightWave cameras and nulls into AE. This makes it easier to track TCP (or anything really) with LightWave animations. Liquify is another feature I use all the time, mostly to alter practical fx plates and footage in ways that are impossible with other warp deformers.

The downside with AE is that it can get cumbersome if you use a lot of masks and precomps. Oh, and EXR support is still kinda poor compared to Fusion.

One more note: If you use OFX plugins (like the HitFilm plugins) with Fusion, you might get errors when launching the program. This is because Fusion can't exclude any OFX plugins in the Common directory that are not compatible with it. The workaround is to move all your 'non-compatible' OFX plugins directly to the program folders for each program that can use them, or put them in an alt 'Common' folder if your other programs can find them there. Personally, I think this is a flaw in Fusion's OFX support--BMD seems to think that only Fusion compatible plugins should go in the Common folder.

corsa
08-02-2017, 12:39 PM
A no-brainer for sure!

Sadly, my GPU is AMD so I doubt it's supported, but I'm looking forward to diving into these apps!


Just downloaded the free version, and (at least my) AMD GPU is definitely supported for OpenCL. Yeah!

Marander
08-02-2017, 12:48 PM
Resolve Studio is coming with a dongle free version, so I suspect Fusion might too.

Thanks TheLexx. So how is licensing done, similar to LW? I hope it doesn't require online activation.

Ztreem
08-02-2017, 12:52 PM
Great news! I been waiting for a new version of fusion... love nodes instead of AE layer/ precomp style even though I use both.

TheLexx
08-02-2017, 01:34 PM
Thanks TheLexx. So how is licensing done, similar to LW? I hope it doesn't require online activation.I don't know but I saw dongle-free mentioned at Redshark News (https://www.redsharknews.com/post/item/4766-resolve-14-hits-beta-6-and-adds-more-features), and someone in the comments mentioned that no internet is required which implied LW style licencing to my mind.

Marander
08-02-2017, 01:36 PM
I don't know but I saw dongle-free mentioned at Redshark News (https://www.redsharknews.com/post/item/4766-resolve-14-hits-beta-6-and-adds-more-features), and someone in the comments mentioned that no internet is required which implied LW style licencing to my mind.

Thanks, that would be great.

fishhead
08-02-2017, 01:54 PM
Well, I only tried the Studio version and it required a dongle, did not recognize it at first after install - so I knew it was searching for it - but after a restart of the computer it fired up quick and nicely..

Farhad_azer
08-02-2017, 03:56 PM
Hi Greenlaw,

Are u sure about fusion not having avi? Maybe i misunderstood ur statement but there is avi in free version of fusion 7 and 8.

Rayek
08-02-2017, 04:24 PM
Question for everyone here who installed Fusion 9 - how stable is it for you? I've been working a couple of hours with it, doing very simple image blending and keying, and so far it ends up crashing a fair bit. Actually quite crash-prone. I have no such issues with other software.

KSTAR
08-02-2017, 04:37 PM
Hi Greenlaw are you using Fusion 9 yet? The AVI saver is definitely in Fusion 9 I'm saving a Newtek SpeedHQ 4:2:2 clip through the AVI saver as I'm typing this :)

I just fired up Fusion 8 saving an AVI wasn't there, so its back for Fusion 9, unless you were referring to something else?

Greenlaw
08-02-2017, 04:37 PM
Hi Greenlaw,

Are u sure about fusion not having avi? Maybe i misunderstood ur statement but there is avi in free version of fusion 7 and 8.

I'm pretty sure you can't output .avi. It's been a topic of discussion on the forums for some time.

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=54863&p=315763&hilit=fusion+.avi#p315763

Apparently the result of going feature parity with Linux and Mac. That doesn't really make sense to me but supposedly they're intend to bring it back.

KSTAR
08-02-2017, 04:37 PM
No crashes yet in 2 days.....knock on wood :)

Greenlaw
08-02-2017, 04:39 PM
I just fired up Fusion 8 saving an AVI wasn't there, so its back for Fusion 9...

That's awesome! Thanks for letting me know. Will install 9 as soon as I get the chance. For me, that alone makes it worth updating. :)

Marander
08-02-2017, 04:41 PM
Question for everyone here who installed Fusion 9 - how stable is it for you? I've been working a couple of hours with it, doing very simple image blending and keying, and so far it ends up crashing a fair bit. Actually quite crash-prone. I have no such issues with other software.

Works very well in for me with some old version 8 compositions (rather basic, some effects and color correction).

Maybe depends what you're doing (tracking, keying, 3D compositing etc.)

Rayek
08-02-2017, 05:01 PM
Works very well in for me with some old version 8 compositions (rather basic, some effects and color correction).

Maybe depends what you're doing (tracking, keying, 3D compositing etc.)

Just simple keying with the wand mask and two images, and then animating a transform on one crashes Fusion 9 for me. It has more to do with the GUI, I think. It crashed once when I added a timeline view. Unresponsive, CRASH.

- - - Updated - - -


Works very well in for me with some old version 8 compositions (rather basic, some effects and color correction).

Maybe depends what you're doing (tracking, keying, 3D compositing etc.)

Just simple keying with the wand mask and two images, and then animating a transform on one crashes Fusion 9 for me. It has more to do with the GUI, I think. It crashed once when I added a timeline view. Unresponsive, CRASH.

Farhad_azer
08-03-2017, 12:18 AM
I am again confused. I see avi and i have done it.

I just add sv and under file format there is avi. Where am i wrong?

allabulle
08-03-2017, 12:29 AM
A bit crashy here as well, under Windows and Linux. Once I see if there's some bug fixing I'll most certainly buy it.

By the way, is the license multi-platform or we need a license for each operating system?

prometheus
08-03-2017, 12:47 AM
A no-brainer for sure!

Sadly, my GPU is AMD so I doubt it's supported, but I'm looking forward to diving into these apps!

- - - Updated - - -



I'm sure you'll like it. The nodes are a little confusing at first, but once you get use to them, it's a faster workflow. At least it is for me.

Depends on, took me a day or two to get going, and still some nodes that I do not know how to, use which input etc, and one thing I do not like about fusion nodes..that is how inputs seem to change location depending on how you move connectors, think they need to revisit the design of those.
Otherwise I also have to say that I like the flexibility when you simply can change node type to another effect etc, so I see the power and speed of that, I still sometime get lost when missing to drag nodes in to the viewport and thus it donīt update properly.

But within 3-4 days I have managed to learn greenscreening with two variants, and also mixing different images or sequences with masks and shapes, simpler text animation, importing shapes from inkscape and also special shapes made in lightwave and exported to svg through splotchdogs plugin and then animate various various shape layers.
Still have a lot to cover, and havenīt used it for over a week now.

Reco
08-03-2017, 01:21 AM
I am again confused. I see avi and i have done it.

I just add sv and under file format there is avi. Where am i wrong?

What software are you open the file in? Please check the codec. Microsoft video 1 codec is not compatible with all players. I have tested Microsoft video 1, H264 and uncompressed in Premiere Pro and they all worked fine.

Reco

Farhad_azer
08-03-2017, 01:51 AM
No reco I was replying to Greenlaw about lack of avi in Fusion. He says there is no avi.
I said there is and i have done.

50one
08-03-2017, 02:46 AM
Out of curiosity - Who's using .avi these days?

Worked with couple of studios and rendered out quick drafts of the viewports in avi, everyone in office almost peed their pants when I mentioned AVI, brings as much curiosity as .tga :)

Reco
08-03-2017, 04:22 AM
No reco I was replying to Greenlaw about lack of avi in Fusion. He says there is no avi.
I said there is and i have done.

Ok I missunderstod.

Reco

Greenlaw
08-03-2017, 08:12 AM
Hmm, maybe it's my system or Fusion install then. FWIW, others in the BMD forum have reported the same issue.

This is the output list I get with the Fusion 8 Saver node:

137563

It was like this for me with the free Fusion 7, 8, and now Fusion 8 Studio. I did have .avi output with Fusion 6.x and earlier.

Question: Which OS are you running? I'm on Windows 10. The main reason I upgraded from 6.x was that it stopped working when I upgraded to Windows 10. I wonder if the OS is somehow preventing Fusion's .avi output from working properly for me and some other users? (Don't ask me why, it's just an idea.) :)

I still haven't installed 9 yet. Will let you know if .avi appears there or not.

Regarding why .avi: as mentioned earlier, it runs smoother and faster in Vegas Pro than .mov. .mov can really drag Vegas down, even crash it, for some reason.

cagey5
08-03-2017, 08:26 AM
Just spotted this. The fact that it's on Linux is a big plus for me. I'll install it later and see how it works.

Greenlaw
08-03-2017, 08:43 AM
In Fusion 9, it's all good. :D

137565

Marander
08-03-2017, 09:23 AM
In Fusion 9, it's all good. :D

137565

Nice, thanks!

corsa
08-03-2017, 11:11 AM
In Fusion 9, it's all good. :D

137565

Interesing, in Fusion 9 for me (on Mac), there is no AVI option. Assuming that is because Mac. Also, this is the free version, not Studio, if that makes a difference.

137567

prometheus
08-03-2017, 11:41 AM
Out of curiosity - Who's using .avi these days?

Worked with couple of studios and rendered out quick drafts of the viewports in avi, everyone in office almost peed their pants when I mentioned AVI, brings as much curiosity as .tga :)

Some screenrecorders perhaps, to get uncompressed recordings to further compress later by your own choosing, I have used previously older versions of camtasia studio which did that and the quality could then be set in after effects to my liking,
I just recently went with recording directly from nvidia n 60fps, but it also brings a direct compression which actually makes my vids more fuzzy than previously, I havenīt checked deeper, but I would like to have an option to set compression level..not sure if I can with that direct recording from nvidia cards.

Farhad_azer
08-03-2017, 11:48 AM
I was using win 7 and fusion 7. I swear there was avi. I will post the output list as soon as i get my pc back. It is down and will be working in days.
I might be wrong and that you persist makes me doubt also. Let me see.
P.s. i was using free version and not studio one.

TreyX
08-03-2017, 12:20 PM
I would like to see a licensing like with LW with a license file instead of a dongle.

I assume dongles are still required for Fusion and Resolve? Is it a USB stick? Would I need two dongles then for both and does it require special driver software?

The free versions of Fusion and Resolve are unbelievable generous with almost no limitation. But for this price I would seriously consider getting the Studio for both, even if it's just to support them. Plugin support for Fusion Studio is the biggest advantage for me.

Actually before the price drop, I dreamed to maybe one day get one the BM cameras for Canon lenses, where the Resolve Studio is included (also very generous), but these prices are a game changer.

With Affinity Designer and Photo, Fusion, PhotoLine, PaintShop Pro, Resolve and Krita I have no need for Adobe.

i checked with blackmagic and they're still sticking with the dongle for now. bizarre.

Greenlaw
08-03-2017, 12:47 PM
Yeah, .avi may be an old container but it's still very flexible, and in wider use than you might think. With .mov essentially retired, I think it's mainly just .mp4, .avi and .mkv, isn't it? And I don't think .mkv is used widely for commercial production.

For editorial, I like to use a lossless codec called MagicYUV (https://www.magicyuv.com/) which can write to .avi or .mov containers (but not .mp4.) I started out using the .mov option because that was all Fusion 8 had available (to me anyway.) I could bring the .mov files into Vegas 14 Pro but it would take minutes to process and sometimes just crash the program. When I did get the .mov files imported, they didn't play very smoothly. Eventually, I output frames from Fusion, and then set up a template in After Effects to compile the Fusion frames into AVI files with the MagicYUV codec. This extra 'conversion' step was annoying but these files took less than a second to import to Vegas and played perfectly.

Later, I asked more experienced Vegas users about this and they confirmed for me that .avi was simply more efficient than .mov for Vegas. This might not be so for other programs but for my own workflow, I'm glad I have the .avi option again for Fusion.

Will test the Fusion 9 .avi exports in Vegas this evening.

Greenlaw
08-03-2017, 12:54 PM
I was using win 7 and fusion 7. I swear there was avi. I will post the output list as soon as i get my pc back. It is down and will be working in days.
I might be wrong and that you persist makes me doubt also. Let me see.
P.s. i was using free version and not studio one.

Oh, I don't doubt you. Like I said, maybe it's a Windows 10 issue or some other hardware/software incompatibility. If it was widespread, I think more users would have said something about it on the BMD forums by now.

Marander
08-03-2017, 01:24 PM
i checked with blackmagic and they're still sticking with the dongle for now. bizarre.

Ah thanks for the info. Yes, bizarre indeed. Hope they'll change it (but please not to an online activation). But for the price, I don't mind actually.

Reco
08-04-2017, 02:42 AM
Camera tracking tutorial in Fusion 9.
https://vimeo.com/228237429
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZCXFmignHI


Reco

Reco
08-05-2017, 03:38 AM
Planar tracking tool in Fusion 9.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d38kNT952B4

Reco

Marander
08-05-2017, 04:30 AM
Hey thanks for sharing, these tutorials are great!

ianr
08-05-2017, 05:48 AM
With This Goodness from BMG should Not we reopen The Fusion section again ?:jam::jam:

Maybe ask mr.bowie to copy this thread into that section ?

- - - Updated - - -

With This Goodness from BMG should we Not reopen The Fusion Section again ?

Maybe ask Mr. Bowie to 'dup' this thread into that section also ?

Reco
08-05-2017, 05:51 AM
With This Goodness from BMG should Not we reopen The Fusion section again ?

Maybe ask mr.bowie to copy this thread into that section ?

- - - Updated - - -

With This Goodness from BMG should Not we reopen The Fusion section again ?

Maybe ask mr.bowie to copy this thread into that section ?

This double text issue happens to me as well. Something with the server/site?

Reco

ianr
08-05-2017, 06:28 AM
This double text issue happens to me as well. Something with the server/site?

Reco


Yeah & i'm using University Hi Speed Network

So it's Newtek's End Bro' 4 SURE!

Reco
08-05-2017, 06:38 AM
I meant Newtek server/site.

Reco

ianr
08-05-2017, 06:44 AM
Okay we're on the same page, what do you think of my idea Reco?

Reco
08-05-2017, 07:13 AM
Aggree 100%

Looks like we will be able to export Fusion9 camera info to Lightwave. Image from Liberty 3d site.
http://www.liberty3d.com/2017/08/fusion-9-released-by-black-magic-design/
137581


Reco

Reco
08-06-2017, 01:53 PM
New camera tracking tutorial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM64Dinzrxo

Reco

wingzeta
08-06-2017, 03:58 PM
Can anyone confirm that the 3D tracker is only in the studio version? Just wondering. The new price for the studio version is worth it considering the plugins and optical flow features. But, if the 3d tracker is also in the free version, I'd start playing with it a little sooner.

Greenlaw
08-06-2017, 04:19 PM
No, the 3D camera tracking is only in Studio. In the past, any of the optical flow stuff was only for Studio, and this continues for Fusion 9.

Here's the comparison list:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/fusion/compare

The new $299 price really is a steal! I remember when Fusion cost $5000. Back then, I got my first license discounted to $2000 and THAT seemed like a fantastic deal.

Edit: Oh, and render nodes in BMD's Fusion 9 Studio are still free and unlimited. This is fantastic! Under Eyeon, I had to pay a separate fee for every Fusion render node.

50one
08-06-2017, 04:29 PM
Aggree 100%

Looks like we will be able to export Fusion9 camera info to Lightwave. Image from Liberty 3d site.
http://www.liberty3d.com/2017/08/fusion-9-released-by-black-magic-design/
137581


Reco

You could do that in the past no problem fusion imports cameras from v6 and fbx files.

wingzeta
08-06-2017, 06:15 PM
No, the 3D camera tracking is only in Studio. In the past, any of the optical flow stuff was only for Studio, and this continues for Fusion 9.

Here's the comparison list:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/fusion/compare

The new $299 price really is a steal! I remember when Fusion cost $5000. Back then, I got my first license discounted to $2000 and THAT seemed like a fantastic deal.

Edit: Oh, and render nodes in BMD's Fusion 9 Studio are still free and unlimited. This is fantastic! Under Eyeon, I had to pay a separate fee for every Fusion render node.

Thanks!

I'm planning to get Studio very soon. BMD is really doing a nice job. I love after effects, but I've mostly left it behind since I've been using Fusion 8 free version, and now they have found a great balancing point with features and price to get me to be happy to upgrade to studio. And of course no subscription. The only bummer is not being able to play with the tracker just yet.

ianr
08-07-2017, 08:41 AM
Thanks!

I'm planning to get Studio very soon. BMD is really doing a nice job. I love after effects, but I've mostly left it behind since I've been using Fusion 8 free version, and now they have found a great balancing point with features and price to get me to be happy to upgrade to studio. And of course no subscription. The only bummer is not being able to play with the tracker just yet.



Watch the Youtube Head2Head with 'Synth Eyes against Fusion 9.

The solve could do with a little pedal to the metal, but considering

it's a fresh tool, it ain't shabby & it's bonus is in-house feed across the app!

Watch video & stump up womp-pomm!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZCXFmignHI

ianr
08-07-2017, 08:50 AM
I love to hear Kel roll around Fusion.
It's like he's doing a Nurburgring Lap on favourite wheels!

erikals
08-09-2017, 12:39 PM
hm, and i've only barely touched the SynthEyes version i bought 1 year back...

wonder how the SynthEyes tracker compares to Fusion tracker... hey, what ya know... >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZCXFmignHI


looks good.
> bit more info... https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=62405

pixel master
08-09-2017, 06:18 PM
Fusion 9 review.

https://www.provideocoalition.com/fusion-9-depth-review/

Whelkn
08-09-2017, 06:24 PM
it will never replace syntheyes. There is just so much more control in syntheyes. Been fooling around with it on some easy shots and it does pretty good. But I don't think I'll ever drop syntheyes from the pipeline.

erikals
08-09-2017, 06:32 PM
thanks pixel master, giving Delta Keyer a read quite soon.

-----------

regarding Fusion tracking, at first glance, looked good for regular tracking though.

Verlon
08-10-2017, 11:34 AM
Puts it I. The ballpark of Hitfilm (mocha tracking).
Also right next to FCPX. Competition working for us.

erikals
08-10-2017, 11:46 AM
i was a millimeter away from HitFilm, but i've already started the BlackMagic route...

DaVinci Resolve / Fusion is $300 + $300 though
HitFilm is $350

hopefully numbers of Fusion tutorials will grow, basically was heavy research to figure out how for example wire-removal worked.
figured it out, for the one curious >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6BaVv1Ik5Q

m.d.
08-10-2017, 12:27 PM
been testing the 3d tracker.
Results are ok for integrated tracker....decent controls. As was said...will never replace syntheyes.

Has no rolling shutter compensation for track analysis...which affects practically every camera out there except the F65 and some global shutter modes on other systems (BM cams, F55)
Rolling shutter will screw with 3d tracking at the best of times....and should be evaluated in the track.

The speed, as compared to syntheyes is a drastic difference.....

Honestly, owning both...not sure how often I'll use the Fusion 3d tracker. Maybe for something really simple.

erikals
08-10-2017, 12:55 PM
NewBlueFX Stabilizer removes RS to a certain degree, might be of help.
DaVinci Resolve, $99 plugin
https://www.newbluefx.com/products/essentials/stabilizer

Fusion RS removal tutorial > http://www.comp-fu.com/2012/04/correcting-rolling-shutter-in-fusion

tricky thou' so guess i won't trash SynthEyes just yet.... :)

TheLexx
08-10-2017, 01:44 PM
I see face tracking in Syntheyes and PFTrack using a face mesh which is quite impressive.

Syntheyes clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGASWfUC8xI#t=11s)
PFTrack clip (https://vimeo.com/57939161#t=4m11s)

Would Fusion 9 have any such a capability with the new tools ?

erikals
08-10-2017, 01:49 PM
highly doubt it.

tracking deformation is alright, rarely needed, as far as i know.
most people go full cg or simple tracking instead.

it is useful, but seldom.

50one
08-10-2017, 01:59 PM
You guys saying 'it will never replace XXX' are missing one key feature... it's the first implementation, watch this space.

Greenlaw
08-10-2017, 02:04 PM
Yes, I have SynthEyes too, and I feel the same way about AE's 3D camera tracker. If I'm compositing in AE, I'll use the AE tracker first because it's there and it's easy to use. If it fails, I'll switch to SynthEyes and take the time to do it right.

I haven't used the Fusion 3D camera tracker yet but will probably treat it the same way--try it first, then fall back to SynthEyes if it fails.

IMO, when it comes to 3D tracking, it's good to have as many options as possible. They all work a little differently, and some are more suitable in different situations.

For example, I was on a job a few years ago where I needed to put banks of snow on the ground surrounding an actor lying down it, and the scenes were shot in Los Angeles in the middle of summer. On set, they dressed the street with cotton, and that's exactly what it looked like so my job was to replace the cotton with 'real' snow. I made several 'snow' matte painting elements and comped them into the scene, but because the camera was hand-held and swung around from looking down at ground to eye level, I couldn't get any 3D camera trackers make the elements move credibly in 3D. Then one of my co-workers suggested using Mocha AE, a 2D planar tracker that comes with After Effects CC. This tool was able to warp my matte painted elements much more convincingly than the 3D trackers I tried could. (SynthEyes can probably do this now but this was before SynthEyes got its own planar tracking capabilities.)

Marander
08-10-2017, 03:38 PM
You guys saying 'it will never replace XXX' are missing one key feature... it's the first implementation, watch this space.

Yep same opinion. But great to read about all these tests and comparisons! Great options and more to come!

vonpietro
08-10-2017, 09:19 PM
greenlaw - hehe thats years of experience talking =)

Its the same for me.

On sin city - i had a crazy tracking shot , a 180 traveling camera arc shot - but the guys could not do a full 180 arc over the car subjecct.

so they put the car on a turntable, and flew the camera up to the apex, and rotated the car and then brought the camera back down the same direction.

the hoped result was that you could track that nightmare of a camera move and get a full 180 up and down movement.

well - believe it or not - boujou 2 tracked most of it, but it took 2 weeks of futzing with it. I used syntheyes as well, but boujou gave the better track.

In the end becuase it was a hack to start with - the motion was wonky - by blowing away the keyframes at the apex and letting it tween i was able to smooth the apex rough spot.

it was a live action hero car with a cg background matchmoved into place.

That was the toughest matchmove shot i've ever done.

=)

m.d.
08-10-2017, 11:10 PM
NewBlueFX Stabilizer removes RS to a certain degree, might be of help.
DaVinci Resolve, $99 plugin
https://www.newbluefx.com/products/essentials/stabilizer

Fusion RS removal tutorial > http://www.comp-fu.com/2012/04/correcting-rolling-shutter-in-fusion

tricky thou' so guess i won't trash SynthEyes just yet.... :)

Applying a RS fix before tracking will just add problems. You could apply it post tracking, with varying success.

The software needs as clean information as possible....even in camera stabilization can destroy a track.
Syntheyes doesn't try to hide or fix the RS problems.....but rather accounts for it in its calculations.

m.d.
08-10-2017, 11:17 PM
You guys saying 'it will never replace XXX' are missing one key feature... it's the first implementation, watch this space.

Maybe....
Been using syntheyes since alpha, very in depth dedicated software. Most users are just scratching the surface of what syntheyes can do. Mocap, texture extraction, super resolution and extremely robust and fast tracking.

erikals
08-11-2017, 07:29 AM
Applying a RS fix before tracking will just add problems. You could apply it post tracking, with varying success.

The software needs as clean information as possible....even in camera stabilization can destroy a track.
Syntheyes doesn't try to hide or fix the RS problems.....but rather accounts for it in its calculations.

Good info, Thank You. :king:

Verlon
08-11-2017, 07:48 AM
been testing the 3d tracker.
Results are ok for integrated tracker....decent controls. As was said...will never replace syntheyes.

Has no rolling shutter compensation for track analysis...which affects practically every camera out there except the F65 and some global shutter modes on other systems (BM cams, F55)
Rolling shutter will screw with 3d tracking at the best of times....and should be evaluated in the track.

The speed, as compared to syntheyes is a drastic difference.....

Honestly, owning both...not sure how often I'll use the Fusion 3d tracker. Maybe for something really simple.

One of the reviews notes that the longer solve time is largely because of picking seed frames automatically. Turn that off and select your own seed frames to save a great deal of it. This sounds like something that can get fixed pretty quickly.

Farhad_azer
08-11-2017, 02:39 PM
Can particles also be imported to LW?

Verlon
08-11-2017, 02:43 PM
With Fusion Connect, it links directly to resolve....
Just like Hub connects modeler and layout - for whatever that is worth.

m.d.
08-11-2017, 03:51 PM
One of the reviews notes that the longer solve time is largely because of picking seed frames automatically. Turn that off and select your own seed frames to save a great deal of it. This sounds like something that can get fixed pretty quickly.

That part helps.....but the youtuber didnt know what he was doing with syntheyes....hitting the auto button in syntheyes is both tracking and solving.

I did a test solving in fusion yesterday....couple hundred frames 4k. tracking maybe 5 minutes....solving maybe another 3-5. Without picking seed frames solving was like 20+ minutes

syntheyes was about 45 seconds total

m.d.
08-11-2017, 03:56 PM
With Fusion Connect, it links directly to resolve....
Just like Hub connects modeler and layout - for whatever that is worth.

Connect is nice....though not quite as good as Adobe dynamic linking (where the AE project is imported directly into PPRo with no rendering) Fusion connect is just automatic file loading and saving....still very handy. Was a major pain before they implemented ProRes and DNXHD for Fusion windows version...as there were no good default video encoders in fusion...so Davinci could send it native formats...but Fusion could only write garbage video, or exr sequence etc.
Adobe dynamic is basically a headless version of AE running inside PPRO....would be very cool if BMD implements this

Greenlaw
08-13-2017, 12:41 AM
Can particles also be imported to LW?

Were you thinking of using Fusion particles to render Hypervoxels, TFD and other effects in LightWave? Sorry, AFAIK, there's no way to get a PFX file or anything like that out of Fusion.

I'm longing for an improvement or replacement to the aging ParticleFX system too, but I've gotten so used to using Fusion Particles and Trapcode Particular in AE, that I don't really think about it much anymore. It's much easier and faster to get great looking particle effects in compositing.

Anyway, Fusion particles work great as a post effect because you can bring the lightWave camera, rendered z-buffer, and world position data into Fusion. With this data, the LightWave renders virtually exist in 3D space, so the particles can be merged, tweaked, and rendered in Fusion credibly and more quickly. (I could almost say the same for AE except that its 3D and channel buffer support isn't so great. Trapcode Particular is pretty awesome though--it's one many reasons I also like to use AE, and I wish I could use this plugin in Fusion.)

Some examples of Fusion Particles: If you look at my Asylum reel (link below,) almost anytime you see sprays of blood, water, and some smoke effects, that's just Fusion Particles. In many cases, it took minutes to set up and render that stuff. Doing this sort of thing in post is so much faster and easier.

To be fair, I still use a fair amount of ParticleFX, TFD and Hypervoxels in my work. I just don't rely on them nearly as much as I used to.

Farhad_azer
08-17-2017, 05:56 PM
Hi Greenlaw and sorry for late responce.
Yes there is avi in my Fusion 7 for sure and i tested it.
Now i am writing by cell phone which is hard for uploading screen shot but i will upload shots in case you dont believe me :)
Again Fusion 7 free version.
Hope this helps.

Greenlaw
08-17-2017, 06:12 PM
No problem, and yes, I believe you! Thanks for taking the time to check.

I'm not sure why I (and some other users at the BMD forum) don't have the AVI option in Fusion 7 and 8. AVI support certainly exists in other programs, so it's puzzling.

But now that I have AVI support in Fusion 9, it's no longer an issue for me. :)

pixel master
09-01-2017, 02:10 AM
Introduction to Fusion 9:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2k9S_xkoL4

mummyman
09-01-2017, 07:48 AM
got back from siggraph were they showed it off -

free version does not have 3d tracking - it's only in the studio version

studio version also only has the new VR 360 viewing and creation stuff. edit your 360 footage, comosite, add effects, and save it out.

also 9 has new keyers - something called delta and clean plate.

the best news was the price reduction putting studio fusion in reach of people's wallets. That means you get the 3d tracker, and plugins and unlimited resolution output and stereoscopic and VR
=)

I'll read up on all this later... does the free version have the VR stuff? Or only the paid version?

pixel master
09-01-2017, 05:59 PM
Sept. 5th, overview and review of fusion 9, 11:30am - 1:00pm.

https://www.provideocoalition.com/event/overview-review-fusion-9/

vonpietro
09-03-2017, 11:31 PM
i installed fusion 9 and when i click the icon to launch it - it wont laucnh.

it worked a few times, i did play with it alittle.
but now it no workie - the only clue is windows 10 did it's update - so i'm guessing the update broke it. -
anyone else have this problem?

prob have to reinstall it i gues.


free version is slighlty faster - and has the new keyers, thats it.

vr, and matchmove - you pay 300 for now - a real deal as syneyes is also 300 and you get a whole compositing package - including unlocking the plugins!!

wingzeta
12-31-2017, 03:47 PM
Does Fusion 9 Studio require a dongle?

erikals
12-31-2017, 03:51 PM
yep >
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=62295

Ma3rk
12-31-2017, 03:57 PM
Does Fusion 9 Studio require a dongle?

Not the free version though.

wingzeta
12-31-2017, 04:09 PM
yep >
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=62295

Thanks:D

djlithium
12-31-2017, 05:23 PM
Not the free version though.

Correct, but its not really a dongle in the conventional sense. It's a USB stick with storage but that device since it is a "drive" work similar to licensing schemes where you get a node locked licence, which typically is associated with the hard drive manufacturer number ID. Other schemes use the MAC address of your network card. having the storage on it is kind of nice becase you can throw a copy of the software itself that is the latest and greatest on to it along with your plug-ins and their key files and when you move it another computer, you have it all there. Sucks though if you lose or damage it.

Greenlaw
12-31-2017, 08:06 PM
Oh, cool! I hadn't realized I could put the software in the dongle itself. I don't need that feature right now but will keep in mind. Thanks for the tip, Kat!


Sucks though if you lose or damage it.

Yeah but at least the software doesn't cost $5,000 anymore. Or even $1000 (which I paid only a few months before the recent price drop. D'oh!) :)